₦airaland Forum

Maximus69:
Delusional Maximus69!

You read my comment with your own eyes where i typed saying "Jesus is the one and only spiritual head"
All you need to do is tactfully asked "what is the position of our own Governing Body?"
That's all!
Then you allow me (who said Jesus is our spiritual head) to explain!

You think everyone is a clown like you....

Now you want to explain the POSITION of GB, something thats not hidden to anyone but can quickly pick offense with the TITLE "Pastor"

Just say it openly here that the Governing Body aren't THE SPIRITUAL HEAD of watchtower society and let your hypocritical mouth be put to shame!

Liar and Hypocrite!

@OP

Nobody has right to permanently ban anybody even scripture didn't support that, the best is to come together to help the person in such situation.

Maximus69:
The title "Pastor" is the problem!

In the first century all the Christians see one another as brothers, the only spiritual head is Christ! Matthew 23:8-12

Always deviating from the main point!

If you have problem with the word "Pastor", then change it to ELDER & DEACON

So because they see one another as brothers does it mean there's no LEADER AMONG THEM?

You have problem with the TITLE "PASTOR" but you don't have problem with the TITLE "Governing Body"

What does it mean to Govern?

DIDN'T your GOVERNING BODY see themselves as the SPIRITUAL HEAD of the Watchtower Society?


Didn't this go against your claim that "The ONLY SPIRITUAL HEAD is Christ!

Hypocrite!

Always see Mott in someone else's eye but will be too blind to see his own.

So when Peter denied Jesus (something Jesus himself count as a serious sin) this same Peter continued to lead the Apostles. Even when he fumbled by letting himself to be carried away by the spirit of nepotism, Apostle Paul corrected him.
In all of this, Peter remains one of the 12 Apostles!

So how do we get a balance view?

Sin is what we were born with, this means none of us is perfect except our Lord and Master (Jesus Christ).

Jesus said we should be prepared to assist one another to keep the faith alive in us. Therefore certain measures should be taken to help the brother that has been overwhelmed by the spirit of the world.
But if he resists the help of God's holy spirit, then he must be disfellowshiped no matter his part in the congregation of God!

After you know this, why did you start with the above statement?

Jozzy4:
Like I said , Good u are learning

Liar who claimed a writer can't be an Author when the source that himself quoted says otherwise.

Romans 11:39 all things came from him , THROUGH HIM and For him.

Now you're getting more confused.

The same ALL THINGS were created THROUGH HIM and for HIM... that's Jesus!

There must be a competition between the The Father and Jesus since they're struggling who will win this ALL THINGS!

The difference is What came through the Father included Jesus and everything else from Jesus .

If you look at that " FOR HIM " it included Jesus because Jesus belong to the Father too being his creation.

BUT ALL THINGS CREATED was also for HIM Jesus which which means Jesus belongs to HIMSELF

This is getting interesting!

But in the case of Jesus when it says all things are through him and for him . it doesnt include the Father.

Don't divert our attention to another thing.

If ALL THINGS ARE THROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM--That is Jesus! According to your logic it means Jesus belongs to HIMSELF.

That's the point!

because you're trying to include Jesus in ALL THINGS that came from the Father but EXCLUDED the same Jesus from the SAME ALL THINGS that passed through Him!

Calm down, Job 38 mentioned the Creation of the waters that fill the sea. Contrary to your lies that earth automatically has water . the Bible saysit was God that covered it with water after he has established its foundation. ( the same foundation of the earth itself the angels witness at Job 38 4-7 )

Genesis creative days never included the birth of waters of the sea.

I've corrected your ignorance in my post above.

Job didn't use WATERS but seas

Lying liar...

Jozzy4:
We know what passed through Jesus . but what passed through the Father himself .. Jesus?

I've told you never you ask question when you didn't answer my question first!

What are the THINGS that passed through Jesus if you know?

ALL THINGS(Jesus included-acxording to you) THROUGH THE FATHER now the scripture says the SAME ALL THINGS passed through Jesus.

Isn't this an evidence that Jesus was the one who created Himself?

Or was scripture lying the Father made something without using Jesus?

We should ask you this, you're the one who claimed!
1. Father created Jesus first
2. Then Jesus was used to create other things

But what did scripture say?

The Bible says, ALL THINGS (Jesus included-according to you) from Father passed through Jesus! Isn't this evident that Jesus passed through Himself?

So Job 38 cannot refer to creative days . Job 38 mention birth of the waters that fill the sea.

Waoooooo Mr delusion.

Waters FILL THE SEA again

Firstly, you lied and I've been trying to correct you but you're very stubborn to correction.

Job didn't mention WATERS but SEAS which is the reason I even went further to explain the meaning of the choice words used by both JOB and Genesis

Job fits into the six creative days because the USAGE of seas shows different from the body of WATERS GOD CREATED SEAS from in Gen 1:1

It was in Gen 1:10 that God called the gathering of the waters SEAS and according to STRONG the meaning of seas deals with violent which is what Job 38 alluded to because Job 38 says "BURST OUT" this is an act of force or violent.

You are not smart , Barrister was playing hide and seek with you

Only children play hide and seek which is the evidence that you people are not intelligent.

You just confirmd my point

Show me where it says the Father LIVES in eternity ?

Who, The Bible or your deluded brother?

Then we come back to was Jesus God the son then ?

I love where we are in this discussion

Just know that you haven't answered my question yet

Jozzy4:
No reply .. Nice one. Next time dont make that blunder again. There is human writers not human authors for the Bible. Good you are learning

Your own source was there for everyone to see how a lying liar can never repent. So I don't need to waste my time on that.

FATHER and Jesus are different persons .. If one of them came through the other . then the statement is valid.

But if none of them came through another but are separate , Then what exactly came through the Father too ?

Tell us the ALL THINGS that came through the Father that was different from ALL THINGS that came through Jesus.

Stop being stupid and next time if you don't answer question(s) never ask me any question.

I said it , You lack knowledge .

Psalm 104:5,6

He has established the earth on its foundations ( the foundations mentioned in Job 38 . You see your life) ... YOU COVERED IT WITH DEEP WATERS as with a garment . The waters stood above the mountains

So the waters was made AFTER he established the earth on its foundations together with mountains created also within the waters .

So The water was BIRTH after God laid the foundation of the earth ! Job 38 is correct the events precede Creative days.

In case you forget let me remind you again,

Job 38 was part of the six creative days not part of the first CREATION of Gen 1:1

I showed you that the marginal reference your confused organization cited was Gen 1:9 which happens under the six creative days! So Job 38 perfectly fits into the six creative days not the FIRST CREATION of Gen 1:1

Which I even attached a quote of your deluded organization that shows Gen 1:1 is totally different from the six creative days!

Evidently, Job 38 can't be part of Gen 1:1

So, there is ONLY ONE EVENT THAT HAPPENED AT THE BEGINNING which is Genesis 1:1 for "In the BEGINNING God created the heavens and the earth"

So both Jesus, (angels since you liar have added that), and heavens and the earth can both be created in the beginning unless you will agree that they were all created SIMULTANEOUSLY

Bible told us what was CREATED in the BEGINNING it's lying liar like you, the twister of the word of God that says No! Bible was wrong, Jesus and Angels were first created.

Jozzy4:
Father and Jesus are different persons .

Something Passed through the Father which made him the one through whom all things came . Who or what was made through the Father ?

Didn't something PASSED THROUGH Jesus also?

What is the difference between ALL THINGS that passed through the Father from ALL THINGS that passed through Jesus?

You didn't answer that as you stylishly boycotted it.

Liar!

Can you create what already exists ?

You will soon shot yourself in the foot!

No!

The entire live in eternity was coined by you. So deal with it , Jehovah , Jesus and the angels precede creation. Of heaven and earth , so that made them all in your eternity . are Jesus and the angels not all Sons ( creations) of this Father.?

Liar like his father the devil...

You're trying to confuse us but I'm smarter than you and I won't allow that to happen.

I asked, where was Jesus and the angels live since heaven hasn't been created? And we all know that ALL CREATED BEINGS need a SPACE TO OCCUPY

Your deluded brother says with the Father, then he asked me where was the Father before heaven was created which I reply ETERNITY!

He can't object this since the scripture attest to it that the Father lives in eternity.

And we also know that ONLY AN ETERNAL BEING lives in ETERNITY!

Now since you people claimed both Jesus and the Angels joined the Father in ETERNITY?

It then means they are all ETERNAL too, I know you can't with this, yet you still want us to agree with your shallow mind that BOTH CREATED JESUS and The Angels were all EXIST before the CREATION OF HEAVENS.

The question now is : Is Jesus God the son in this eternity ?

You haven't answered my question until then I'll answer you.

Jozzy4:
You still dont learn.

A writer can only be an author when he can claim legal responsibility for the work which makes him the owner of the writes piece of information.

This men in the Bible cannot claim ownership for the content.

When will you have sense ?

You're still twisting your own source....

I know you will never have sense till you die

All things are also THROUGH the Father .

What came through the Father ?

Tueh!

So how does ALL THINGS which come through the Father different from ALL THINGS that come through Jesus?

Where did the waters come from , are they created ? Yes.

Another display of ignorance!
The creation of earth in Gen 1:1 contains the WATERS, why the SEAS is the product of the SIX CREATIVE DAYS

Get that into your empty skull

Been brought from womb is an act of creation.

So which one came first, the creation of the heavens and the earth Gen 1:1 or the six creative days?

because if seas which is a product of six creative days (which your confused organization attested to) suddenly came out of womb again then it's either you lack understanding of that verse or you just decided to be a perpetual liar like your father devil.

Jozzy4:
No, something passed through the Father too , which make the scripture says the ALL THINGS CAME THROUGH THE FATHER - Romans 11:29
Jesus must be the work of his hands to claim that Glory.

Now you've jumped to Roman

How does the ALL THINGS(Jesus included) who came from the Father different from ALL THINGS (Jesus included) through Jesus?

Is it the same ALL THINGS that passed through the Father that ALSO PASSED through Jesus or the are different?

You are a Liar . Devil is your mentor

That was cited for part A: doors for the sea.

Not its coming from WOMB

You can bring from womb what is already in existence. Womb is an act of creation.

See the face of a liar once again,

So how can a sea that happened in SIX CREATIVE DAYS suddenly came to existence later?

Like I said, ignorance couple with lies are the main problem that you people have.

I've showed you that Job 38 was part of the SIX CREATIVE DAYS yet your deluded mind couldn't grasp it.

Is Jesus God the Son in eternity ?

What is the rationale behind a created beings exist in ETERNITY?

Only an eternal being can exists in ETERNITY, do you mean both Jesus and the Angels are eternal?

These are the questions I've been asking you idiots since!

Jozzy4:
All things came from the Father does not exclude Jesus . .

And the same ALL THINGS are THROUGH JESUS does not exclude Jesus...FIXED!

Is it not the same ALL THINGS that came from the Father that also PASS THROUGH JESUS?

Check the usage of the word Womb I'm the entire bible it refer to Been born, Coming into existence . Genesis 1 does nor mention the waters been born , it only says they are gathered

Gen 1:1 IN THE BEGINNING God created the Heavens and the earth

I've explained the usage of the womb in that verse.

From your own confused organization translation the cited scripture for Job 38:8 are Psalms 33:7 "He gathers the seawaters like a dam; (a) He puts the surging waters in storehouses." and Prov 8:29 "When he set a decree for the sea
That its waters should not pass beyond his order, (a) When he established* the foundations of the earth,"

Look at the two bracket (a) it's a marginal reference guess where it referenced? Genesis 1:9

Yet you deluded people have been trying to shift the event of Job outside the SIX CREATIVE DAYS!

Good u came back to this.
Is Jesus God the son in this eternity ?

Answer my question first!

And I will answer your question.

Jozzy4:
You still refuse to learn .
From Wikipedia


" The term writer is often used as a synonym of author, although the latter term has a somewhat broader meaning and is used to convey legal responsibility for a piece of writing , even if its composition is anonymous, unknown or collaborative. "

Author has broader meaning , an author is the owner of the piece of writing. When will you have sense ?

Author has broader meaning but does it negate a writer being an Author as you claimed in your post?

Lying liar like your father the devil.

Then It means not all things came from the Father if Jesus is excluded. But we know you are the Liar here and that's why Jesus is a son. Father preceded the son.

Idiot address my point:

ALL THINGS (Jesus included) came from the Father....
The same ALL THINGS (Jesus included) pass through Jesus!

Then it also means NOT ALL THINGS pass THROUGH Jesus Christ, if Jesus is excluded....and it means God is lying to us!

But what did the scripture says?

It says just as ALL THINGS CAME FROM THE FATHER, ALL THINGS ALSO are THROUGH JESUS!

Lying liar JWs.

The waters are gathered together NOT BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE in Genesis 1.

Which verse are you referring to before I know what to say?

Job 38 says they were there when it burst from WOMB , brought to existence.

Sense !

SEAS not Waters

Just as I explained to your deluded brother up, SEAS was used to show the violent gathering of the WATERS before DRY LAND (which includes cornerstone) appears.

The whole earth was covered with WATERS which is very calm and mild.

In fact, the plausible explanation is that, since Angels were not there when HEAVENS AND THE EARTH were created, they will be so surprised and astonished to have seen how a great body of WATERS rose up in violent way to pave way for DRY LAND TO APPEAR.

This witness alone will be such a thing of joy for the angels, had it been they witness the CREATION OF HEAVENS AND THE EARTH in Gen 1:1 There's nothing there for them to surprise because you will agree with me that creation of HEAVEN alone will surpass that of earth in thousand time.

You must died in your ignorance!

Barristter07:
Jozzy4 already did justice to the above

It's justice to you because both of you lack sense!

First , you probably forget that what is inside the sea is actually the same Mayim

Genesis 1:21,22

" And God created the great sea creatures and all living creatures that move and Swarm IN THE WATERS ... Be fruitful and become many and FILL THE WATERS OF THE SEA "

Liar.....
After I show you GREEK STRONG...

The usage of the SEAS differentiated it from WATERS which God split....That's why in Job 38 the description is sort of VIOLENT action which is the meaning of the SEAS according to STEONG!

The question is, why didn't Gen 1:2 use SEAS?

It's evident that, at the six creative days it was when a violent gathering of WATERS occurred which God called SEAS.

What you called Sea is actually the same Mayim that existed before creative days ... Nowhere in the creative days were thus waters formed . but at Job 38:8 it says the Sea ( waters filling it ) once burst from from womb ( Womb birth , born , came into existence ) . this precedes Creative days.

You're a perpetual liar....

Even when I post the meaning of both MAYIM and AYAM from STRONG you can still spew this thrash.

You can see how ignorant you are now
Look at this your own statement "but at Job 38:8 it says the Sea ( waters filling it ) once burst from from womb ( Womb birth , born , came into existence )

You intentionally inserted WOMB birth, BORN, came into existence when the reference to womb was to demonstrate THE VIOLENT FORCE of the gathering of the SEAS.

Job 38:6 mention again " earth Cornerstone " . This was not part of the details of Creative days . Creative days never mention how God built the structure of the earth. But this expression at Job 38 refer to its construction

Stop lying.....
If cornerstone wasn't part of creative days, why did God command DRY LAND to appear?

Does CORNERSTONE not the one holding DRY LAND in place?

Ole...

Once again, Gen 1 it's only the beginning no other beginning!

IGNORING PART:
You haven't explained the rational of a CREATED BEING EXISTS ETERNITY because you're busy ignoring that part.

Explain how a CREATED BEINGS (Jesus and the angels) join the Father in ETERNITY because only ETERNAL BEING can exist in ETERNITY.

Do you want to tell us that both Jesus and the Angels are also ETERNAL?

Jozzy4:
You now realize how stupid you sound. So next time a writer is not an author, unless he himself is the source of what he wrote.

You have been educated now right ?

The @underlined is real funny and just shows how a liar like you will never repent.

You quoted Wikipedia when you're to define "who is Author?" but when you want to define "Who is a writer?" your source of information suddenly change. Why? because you know Wikipedia will expose your lie, that's why you can say the @underlined.

There is only one source for creation, The Father. 1Cor 8:6

The beautiful thing is it also says THE FATHER, FROM WHOM ALL THINGS ( Jesus included ) CAME .

And your empty brain couldn't phantom also that the same "ALL THINGS (Jesus included) pass THROUGH Jesus which means Jesus is the one who created Himself.

You are not really wise .

Coming from the chief of most ignorant.

One single question will dismantle all the rants above . point for me : On which day of Creation were the waters FORMED ?


Because at Job 38:8 it says the Angels witness when the waters were birth .


You are not wise I dey tell you

After I pointed out that Job 38 talked about SEAS you can still openly lied that Job 38 says the Angels witness when the WATERS were birth.

Gen 1 used WATERS it was during the six creative days that the word SEAS first used.

See how you exposed your ignorance and lying attitude again.

As it stands, Gen 1 it's only THE BEGINNING that happened first!

Again JWs are wrong and liar! Just as their father the devil

Jozzy4:
You are stupid, writer is not an author. None of the writers are author they are not the creator or originator of what they wrote

Your frustration just begin and you'll cry lass lass

Rev 3:14 he gave you earlier and the question you have been avoiding shows how stupid you are again.

Is an arch enemy not an enemy ?

If ALL THINGS(including Jesus) came from the Father and the same ALL THINGS(including Jesus) came through Jesus Christ, isn't that means Jesus came through Himself just as what this thread is all about?

Deluded JWs....

The angels witness the creation of the sea, 70% of what made up the earth .. Without this sea earth is not formed . use your brain , Job 38 is Not just preparation of the dry land . Lie lie
Cc: Barristter07

If not because your brain is paining you,

EARTH WAS LIFELESS at the beginning which makes it void and without FORM and THE SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters (Mayim)

Now, here is where your problem lies, the word used in Gen 1:2 translated waters is MAYIM, this word according to STRONG: water, figuratively juice, urine, flood, spring e.t.c

Now, in verse 10 the waters under heaven called YAM (seas) from STRONG: from unused root meaning to roar; a sea (as breaking in noisy surf) e.t.c

Prov 8 also used the word MAYIM which is the reason I said, Prov 8 description fit into Gen 1 while Job 28 isn't.

Now if you look at Job it was SEA that was USED

And it still remains that Gen 1:1 was actually true and you JWs are the liar because the description of Job 38 perfectly fits into the SIX DAYS CREATIVE not the first Creation of heavens and the earth.

Creative days began after the waters were already formed . BEFORE THE WATERS ARE FORMED, The angels have been existing , they saw how this waters were formed . [b] which proved they exist before the planet earth itself . Earth in verse 4 is the planet and the first water in it and how it was made was pointed at verse 8 . Sense is far far far from una . no wonder writer became author .


Cc: Barrister 07

You just exposed your ignorance since you couldn't differentiate between Waters and SEAs as used by the Author of Job and Gen 1

And I remember you couldn't answer my question then....

If Angels and Jesus were created before heavens, where would they live?

Your deluded brother who wanted to rescue you said with the Father in eternity....Do you agree with him?

Jozzy4:
Keep shut ... Even blabbing in ignorance

, Writers is not the same as author . Author means creator or originator of the content. I can write for someone and yet not be the author of the Material .

God is the Author of the Bible but to eliminate human author out of Bible is the height of stupidity.

Jozzy4:
" Get it right anything you received through the inspiration of God comes directly from God. The reason why Holyspirit reveal that statement through Timothy is the point you stated above "void of the writer's point of view" it means all those words is not just an imagination of man but what the spirit of God has revealed through man. " Emusan

https://www.nairaland.com/1313081/bible-word-god

I do say it that, you people lack simple comprehension....

I didn't say God isn't the Author of the Bible....you can proof me wrong if I said so....my point is eliminating HUMAN AUTHOR from the scripture is the height of stupidity. That's my point!

Definition of an author
An author is the creator or originator of any written work such as a book or play, and is also considered a writer. More broadly defined, an author is "the person who originated or gave existence to anything" and whose authorship determines responsibility for what was created.[1] - Wikipedia

How can you be the author when according to Emusan it comes directly from God ?

You're the very one who made a quoted from Wikipedia but unfortunately you're so daft to see how what you quoted exposed your ignorance!

First the definition of an Author from your own source says "An author is the creator or originator of any written work such as a book or play, and is also considered a writer..."

Now, Who are the WRITERS of Bible?

You can see the reason I said to eliminate human Author from the Bible is the height of stupidity.

Barristter07:
The bible has only one source . all the men that penned it were medium through which this was done.

" Forty Writers, One Author "

They are just secretaries .

Note I didn't say God isn't the Source of Bible but eliminating the Human Author is the height of stupidity.

Likewise There is only one source of creation, The Father from whom all things came , Christ is just a medium through as well.

Your brain dead analysis exposed

Which brought us back to our initial point, that means Jesus Christ came through Himself since ALL THINGS CAME THROUGH JESUS....

You can't eat your cake and also have it!

Liar as usual , Quote where they said Angels were not created before planet earth. ?

You even went to quote the creative days when we are discussing making of the Planet earth itself.

After I exposed your lies and ignorance, you can still come out without shame!

Didn't you see it from your own confused organization that EARTH was first created AS A LIFELESS PLANET?

Which is my point, God creating the Universe INCLINING LIFELESS Planet Earth means Gen 1:1 was already in place before the lifeless planet Earth was PREPARED FOR HABITATION.....

Who told you Job 38 was for the six creative days ?

If you can't see this in your own confused organization article is left from you....

What God first created is a LIFELESS PLANET EARTH which after SIX DAYS CREATIVE began....

If you look at Job 38 you'll see it fits in into the description of the SIX DAYS CREATIVE not A LIFELESS PLANET.

Verse 7 and 8 says the angels were there when the oceans were created . This refer to the making of planet earth itself . Job 38 is reffering to the period highlighted above .

" Angels were created in the distant past, before the earth existed. When God created the earth, the angels “began shouting in applause.”​—Job 38:​4-7. "

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-are-angels/

Liar....stop lying...
vs8 says "Who kept the sea inside its boundaries"

Here you said OCEANS plural.....

Like I said, Job 38 fits in into the six creative days God prepared the earth for habitation that's why even creation of heavens wasn't mentioned.

That's why I said your organization is confused

First, I've posted an article here, where your confused organization first said, Jehovah created Jesus then creation of heavens and the earth which INCLUDE THE ANGELS

You haven't counter your claim that CREATED BEING can EXIST in ETERNITY, which is the point that brought out whether Angels were created before earth.

Can a created being exist in ETERNITY?

Emusan, you are from your Father the Devil. The same Devil even make you ascribe authorship of the Bible to humans

Lying liar Barrister07 you know that is your attribute as well as other JWs because Devil is your founder.

Barristter07:
So they owned what they penned ?
To claim authorship of something u must be the brain behind it.

Satan is really playing with your mind.

Do you call them authors?

Lying liar....

Idiot....what is the meaning of Author?

Job 38 refer to PLANET Earth . emphasis on " Founded the earth " " Set it's measurement " " sunk its pedestals " " its cornerstone "

And when we talk about Earth , Earth is 70% water . so there is no way we will discuss how God formed the earth that the sea won't come into discussion. Job 38:8 noted that after the water were formed, God set a limit for it.


" When the ocean was born, I set its boundaries " Job 38:8

So its not just dry land., but formation of the planet itself.

Clearly the angels witness The whole thing which shows they exist before the planet.

Let me put end to this lies....as everyone can see that a liar truly has no shame!

Now your tune has changed from from FOUNDATION means creating the earth to there's no how discussing how earth is formed without discussing how the sea comes about.

I first told you that earth was long created before preparation for habitation took place but you keep perambulating and dying in your delusions.

Here it is:

First look at this quote from your demonic organization "1. In the Bible account, each of the six creative days could have lasted for thousands of years.

2. God had already created the universe, including a lifeless planet Earth, by the time the first creative day began.

3. Evidently the six creative days were long periods during which Jehovah God prepared the earth for human habitation.

From the untold story of creation....

Let's centered on point 2&3;
Firstly, this short article shows how a liar like can go to any length to keep lying.

Secondly, point 2 clearly stated that UNIVERSE and A LIFELESS PLANET EARTH were ALREADY CREATED by the time the SIX CREATIVE DAYS BEGAN

Thirdly, from the point2 above it shows you don't know your Bible to the extent that you're even going against the teaching of your confused organization.

Fourthly, point3 supported my initial statement of how God prepared earth to be habitable which is what Job 38 is describing.

Now, it's evident from your confused organization that the event of Gen 1:1 wasn't part of the SIX CREATIVE DAYS which means Gen 1:1 actually took place as the Bible said "In the BEGINNING God created heavens and the earth"

And going by the above article, since thousands of years would have passed, then Angels would've been created after Heavens and the earth were created in the beginning before they shouted for joy when God was preparing it.

This is plausible because created being needs a space to occupy that's why God first created heavens and the earth, which debunked your initial claimed that both Jesus and the angels joined God in ETERNITY after being created which is the most ridiculous statement ever.

IN SUMMARY!
1. Job 38 couldn't fit into the description of Gen 1:1 because even your own organization said what God first created is a LIFELESS PLANET EARTH

2. Job 38 failed to talk about creation of heavens along earth something that Prov 8 did.

3. From above evidences, Gen 1:1 was actually correct what was first created IN the BEGINNING were HEAVENS AND THE EARTH.

4. So, since it was heavens and the earth that was first created IN THE BEGINNING then it means you got the interpretation of Rev 3:14 wrong. Both Jesus and heavens and the earth can't be created IN THE BEGINNING!

5. Lastly, you lied that it was foundation that means earth was created, when if we follow what your organization explained above, one can see that THE SIX CREATIVE DAYS were ONLY MEANT FOR THE PREPARATION of habitable earth. Which means, Gen 1:1 is a done deal and forgotten issue!

In attached are the evidences of your lies....

Barristter07:
Show me where the scripture says Bible has human origin ? Liar , Na your Father u dey copy . devil.

Imagine he wants to dash me his father, you know your father has nothing in me as he has nothing in Christ.

Who is the Author of the Books in the Bible?

Do you know what author means?

26 made it clear Earth was not yet formed

28 says the waters were founded first

29 he separated the dry land from the sea by setting a decree for the sea .

Job 38:4-8 made it clear that when he does all this things the Angels were there

Can you see your life outside?
Listening will always be a liar no matter what....
When I said from onset that it was how God prepared earth to be habitable your emphasize was on LAYING FOUNDATION, you even asked "do I know what it means to lay the foundation of the earth?"

Just as you people change the word FIRSTBORN to mean FIRSTCREATED just to suit your demonic doctrines. You also did the same to mean laying foundation of the earth means creation of the earth.

Now, you finally dance to the tune of how earth was prepared

If the waters was founded first it means, something happened before the foundation was laid....which is the bone of contention here.... LAYING FOUNDATIONS

This is from your own word "Are you blind ? Earth wasn't made until foundations were marked in verse 29 which is what Job mentioned"

Now which earth are you referring to here, the one created in General 1:1 or the dry land called earth as you mentioned below?

Then you need to ask again : when it says in the beginning God created heavens and earth , was it referring to Dry land or the sea ?

Genesis 1:10 God called the dry land " Earth "

I've told you how Job 38 is all about preparation of earth created IN THE BEGINNING to be habitable because it's just focus on earth not about creation that's why I even went deep in contraction of Prov 8 with Job to show you how both explain different scenarios just that you're too brainwashed and blindfolded to reality.

So I'll ask again, which earth are you referring to in Job 38, the one created at the BEGINNING or the dry land prepared called EARTH?

Janosky:
David was firstborn by Yahweh's APPOINTMENT.


Read again this post :

Psalms 89:27
"And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth."

King David is not the firstborn son of his parents, he has no claim to kingship, but David was APPOINTED as firstborn by Yahweh..
(1Samuel16:13. 1 Samuel 13:14.)
Your own Bible says Jesus Christ is"the firstborn of EVERY creature.
Jesus is firstborn by right of firstborn"

If not because your brain is paining you, you realized that being the firstborn doesn't really mean the first person given birth to, yet you want Jesus Christ "firstborn" to automatically be FIRSTCREATED....what a delusion!

The question you people don't like to even answer is:

There is a word in Greek for FIRSTCREATED, why didn't apostle Paul use this word instead of confusing us with the word FIRSTBORN?

From all indications, you people know that the word FIRSTBORN has no link with FIRSTCREATED that's why you people have being coming with different theories.

Barristter07:
Jesus was called firstborn in association with Creation. How was he born ?

Idiot....
Asking me how he was born!

What is the meaning of FIRSTBORN?

Barristter07:
No human source .

There is!

No proof yet that he said he alone was there . that I said I witness something does not mean others dont as well. Where did he said ONLY ONE.

Reading through that passage with right sense will show you that.

26 says " WHEN HE HAD NOT YET MADE THE EARTH "

Are you blind ? Earth wasn't made until foundations were marked in verse 29 which is what Job mentioned .

Ole....
Earth was not made until foundations (plural) we're marked so where does the sea waters that overflow it's boundary come from?

I tell you, you must keep lying to defend lies.

When it was boldly written in the beginning of verse 29 "when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command,"

I asked again, if laying the foundation of the earth means creation of the earth, how many earth did God create in Prov 8? because it's FOUNDATIONS (plural).

It's even evident that you're just a lying liar...

Barristter07:
Single one ... Jesus . the one he created directly. Gods only begotten son. , does that ring a bell ? Why is Jesus called SON OF GOD ?

David isn't firstborn in that sense ... He was called firstborn for His kingship status

Ole.....
The point here is since David is called FIRSTBORN and meaning of FIRSTBORN to you is first created being that means David was FIRST CREATED before Jesus which can't make Jesus the FIRSTCREATED being.

But if you try to shift the meaning of David being firstborn away from FIRSTCREATED then it means you're just a deluded person who didn't know he's right from left and try to force the meaning of firstborn to mean FIRSTCREATED only to Jesus

Barristter07:
chief; principal; of highest rank
archangel
archbishop
archduke
2. eminent above all others of the same kind; extreme
archenemy
archfiend
archfool


There you have it . like I said, u can't escape it.

ORIGIN of God's creation

The bible has no human source . God is its only source . men are agents

God is the source of Bible channel through human ORIGIN...

Angels watch as God laid the foundation's for earth ...which came first ?


Either

A. Angels are uncreated

B. Heaven and earth are not Beginning of creation . one must be true.

I just exposed your ignorance in my above reply

Barristter07:
Listen and listen well, Through doesn't mean source . sarcastically if it were men would be the source of the bible because it was written though them.

Through is never origin or source.

You can rest on that aspect

So Bible doesn't have human source, right?

Mr, show me where he said he was the only one that was there when God made the earth ?

Reading through Prov 8 one can see that the speaker was alone with God, if not the speaker won't use "I"

Also, Prov 8 shows that it was God Himself that was performing the act of creation not anybody according to the speaker.

Lastly, the difference between the narration of the speaker in Prov 8 and that of Job 38 to show you that the speaker is absolutely out of creation was that the speaker of Prov 8 talks about CREATION OF HEAVEN and THE EARTH while

The last part that exposes your ignorance is this part "when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth." Vs 29

Now if you read it from that same verse 22 you'll see earth was already in existence, yet the foundations (plural) was still marked out.

Here it is, How many earth did God create if we should go by your laying foundation of earth in Job with Prov 8 to mean creation of earth?

I said you don't know the gravity of shit that will hit you with what you put your hand into.

Barristter07:
And Collins dictionary state examples

Arch enemy, arch angels.


QUESTION: Does been an arch enemy exclude someone from among enemies ??

In what sense did the Collins talk about Arch enemy or arch angels, there must be something the writer means by that....that's why I said drop your source here

Through is not source , deluded man. That the bible was penned THROUGH MEN means men are the source ? Where is your sense tonight ? Where ?

Does it exclude the HUMAN SOURCE of the Bible Or Bible doesn't have human source?

Deluded JWs

God exposed your little brain when he reveal angels existed before planet earth

A. Heaven and earth are not beginning of creation

B. Angels are uncreated

One must be true.

Gen 1 exposed your lies and lack of scriptural knowledge

"In the BEGINNING God CREATED heavens and the earth" yet you're still claiming heavens AND earth are NOT THE BEGINNING OF CREATION, calling God a liar!

I'm still waiting for you to show us why CREATION OF HEAVENS was excluded in Job 38 if truly that chapter is talking about creation.

No wonder all JWs are all deluded together, look at how the organization was also confused in the attached pix.

Imagine, Jehovah use Jesus to create all other things in THE HEAVENS and in THE EARTH which includes the Angels yet the next paragraph still says Angels were created before the Earth.

Why only earth? Isn't Heavens and the earth were created in the BEGINNING?

Barristter07:
Through is not source if it were men would be the source of the bible.

Ole....
So if it's men it'll be source but Jesus it won't....

Well people can see how dubious you are!

Did he said he was the only one there when God formed the earth ? Show me where ?

But it was ONLY THE SPEAKER who was FORMED FIRST in the beginning in that verse...and the speaker went to narrate how God Himself performed the act of creation by Himself why the speaker is just there as a master worker...

So other angels will be there and Jesus won't talk about them...

Barristter07:
There is only one origin, The Father from whom all things came .

You can rest on that . sorry

And Jesus Christ THROUGH ALL THINGS CAME

But angels were there before earth was made evidence by them seeing as its foundations were laid ? Do u know the meaning of foundation ?

Either Heaven and earth are not the beginning of creation or angels are uncreated .

And I said Jesus lied in Prov 8 when he was the only one beside God.....since you claimed Jesus was the one speaking there....q

Barristter07:
It is not , the writer of the article I quoted used that example to explain his point . its either you are dubious or you agree with his point.

Is an arch enemy a part of the enemies ?

Strong Greek says ORIGIN besides you quoted article when your first source was from COLLINS DICTIONARY....which is what I demanded from you!

See how your father the devil exposed you...

Provide the link to your source!

There is only one origin , the Father . 1 Cor 8:6 from whom all things are

and Jesus Christ THROUGH WHOM ARE ALL things.

Angels watch as earth's foundation were laid , who came first ? You are deluded

And Jesus lied that He was only one beside God in Prov 8

The astonished part is that you don't even have shame to realize the gravity of your delusions.

Heaven and earth are not the beginning of creation

Gen 1 says "In the BEGINNING God CREATED heavens and the earth "

Who is lying here, God or you?

Barristter07:
Answer that question first , Does the fact that someone is an arch enemy remove them from among enemies ?

Hypocrite.

See a chronic hypocrite calling some else an hypocrite!

The verse is clear enough, Jesus is the Origin of God's creation.

The origin meaning contradict the scripture

Only contradicts NWT not scripture.

You that understand, state the point: Does the fact someone is an arch enemy exclude them from being an enemy ?

The point is Jesus is the ORIGIN or SOURCE of Gods creations not that he was created, eternal being can't be created.

I though earth was in the beginning ? So heaven and earth clearly were NOT the beginning of creation

"In the beginning God created heavens and the earth"

Liar like you can give it other meaning.

I can see you didn't talk about your previous Prov 8 again.

Not the same beginning, didnt angels exist before the earth ?

There can't be TWO BEGINNING liar....

It's evident what God created first in the beginning.

Even Gen 1 stated it plainly "In the BEGINNING God CREATED heavens and the earth"

Clearly heaven and earth are nor the beginning of creation.

Let Gen 1 keep hitting your heart only a liar can say that...

But the truth from the scripture is.... "In the BEGINNING God CREATED heavens and the earth"

Barristter07:
Answer this first : Arch enemy is part of the enemies ?

Your question is baseless in the first place.

Scripture reveal he wasn't the origin of creation.

Scripture says He is the origin of creation!

Angels exist before the foundation of earth were set, Yes ?

"In the beginning God created heavens and the earth"

That rightful place , do angels belong there too cos they existed before Genesis 1:1. If they existed before Genesis 1:1 it means earth and heaven are not the beginning of creation. The verse never even state so.

The verse says "IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED HEAVENS AND THE EARTH"

Why do you desire to lie like your father the devil?

How can you read a plain statement like this and you can still say "it means earth and heaven are not the beginning of creation. The verse never even state so."

Since your father is a liar from the beginning I don't expect less from you.

Barristter07:
Arch creation is a creation .

Arch enemy is an enemy

Then you don't understand the verse

Strong Greek it also mean Beginning.

Origin ... Don't even go there , we both know he isn't the origin or source.

But the word means ORIGIN, so who are you to determine the meaning?

All this is just to prove that you don't understand that particular verse.

Genesis 2:4 they were made same day .

If angels exist before earth, they do before heaven too.

Why was earth only mentioned in Job 38 if your flaunt is true....

Olodo

Use your brain Genesis 1:1 and 2:4 place them at the same.time. so far the angels precede one, they precede both.

Liar....
Gen 1 is the opening of creation and what God first created IN the beginning were HEAVENS AND THE EARTH.

So both Rev 3:14 and Gen 1 can't be talking about the same beginning, that's contradiction.

Barristter07:
Is an arch enemy part of the enemies?

The dictionary made it clear that chief or highest rank does not change the Fact that even the chief is part of the group.

So that question needs urgent answer

And for the eternal whatever , does he existed as God the son ?

Which group?

The strong Greek you first use to support your John 1:3 also said ORIGIN and some translations use ORIGIN....

Emphasis on " Foundation " ? Retract that lie

its foundation was been set and the angels watch , The angels clearly existed before the Earth.

Exposing your fallacy of Genesis 1:1 .. Are the angels eternal beings too ?

That's how you will know you lack understand, even Prov 8 you've been trying to use reported ONLY ONE PERSON TALKING being beside God.

So why is God trying to deceive us with all these contradictions if we should go by you?

Firstly, Gen 1 made it clear that "IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED HEAVENS AND EARTH" which you even lied that it wasn't "NOT BEGINNING"

Secondly, according to you Jesus was the one talking in Prov 8 and only said He was Master Worker beside God...if Jesus and angels were beside God it means It wasn't only Jesus that was created IN THE BEGINNING....

lastly, all these contradictions just from one person all because you're denying Jesus His rightful place in the scripture.