₦airaland Forum

Jozzy4:
U must be a joke
MY servant, possessive pronoun. No am not wrong. He was a servant as at when chosen. I only wanted to tackle that UNFOUNDED claim that seek to say Having divine nature means someone can't be a servant of the Most High.

Me a joke, coming from someone who can't distinguish between Simple Past Tense and Present Perfect Tense.

So when was He chosen?

If the two statements can't be true. Are human who possess divine nature EQUAL TO GOD?

The verse says "...ye might be PARTAKERS of the divine nature" this is different from being in FORM of God.

Thank God it says " NATURE of " Nature refer to a certain form or APPEARANCE. Get schooled. The verse explains it further saying " being in the likeness of men" this is the nature it was reffering.

Not even angels have this nature of a servant . BUT it doesnt mean they are not servants.

The problem you have is that, you don't even understand yourself.

Phil 2 was about the NATURE/FORM He existed before and the NATURE/FORM he now exists.

Which means He never EXISTED AS SERVANT but ONLY exists as a SERVANT when he became human.

Does having NATURE OF GOD means someone is not a servant or someone is equal to GOD ?

The trillion dollar question.

Like I said, you're still perambulating.

He existed in FORM/NATURE of God from beginning NOT AS A SERVANT, He only exists as FORM/NATURE of a servant when He became human.

But to your question!
ONLY GOD CAN HAVE THE NATURE OF GOD

Having God's nature means you're God just as having human nature means you're a human!

Firstly, do you agree you misinterpreted Isaiah 42:1?

Jozzy4:
Your assumption is based on the fact that having Divine nature means someone can't be a servant.

This is where you got it wrong!

NOTICE this your statement "...having Divine nature means someone can't be a servant"

It's obvious that you tune has changed!

The center point is, what He is before and after.

He was in FORM of God before taken upon the FORM OF A SERVANT.

So the two statements can't be true!

Form means Nature in this context, we both agree , am focusing on the highlighted because it is what will expose your incompetency.

Instead you should be worried about your ignorance.

Now let's substitute NATURE into Phil 2:7 and see how it exposes your ignorance.

"....and took upon him, the NATURE of a servant"

This simply means, he wasn't a servant before this time but at this time he possessed the NATURE of SERVANT

Humans are said to be sharers of this same NATURE OF GOD, Does that mean they are not his servant or are now equal to God ?

You're digressing from the main point!

The point isn't whether Jesus shares divine nature but ONLY BECAME SERVANT at certain time.

Jozzy4:
Philippians 2:7 again " he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness "


says NATURE of a Servant., Nature means form , its the human body that was described as having human nature.

So because Angelic sons of God dont have the NATURE OF HUMANS, they are not servant ?

Isaiah 42:1 says My servant , whom I have chosen. chosen. PAST TENSE.

He chose his servant before he even came to.the earth . so Jesus was a servant before coming to earth .


OUR GOD is not a servant. Thank God for revelation 7:9

My point is centered on the @color part!

If at this your age you can't be able to distinguish the SIMPLE PART OF SPEECH in a statement, then your education is useless and speaks volumes of your Bible interpretation.

What you called PAST TENSE for your selfish interest in that verse is simply called PRESENT PERFECT TENSE which means that the action started in the past and has continued until now with LENGTH OF TIME!

So if Isaiah says "My Servant whom I have CHOSEN" it means the ACTION which is 'CHOSEN' has been achieved many years ago.

Now, since Isaiah is a prophetic statement it means He has been chosen times ago as a servant that's why Apostle Paul said "He took on a form of servant" just as scripture also mentioned that Jesus was a lamb SLAIN FROM FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, which doesn't means He was killed at that time but a task to be achieved but CHOSEN/DECIDED many years ago.

If Jesus has already been a servant then, Apostle Paul would have been wrong to say "He took upon him the FORM of a servant"

In fact, the whole Phil 2:6-7 proves you wrong that Jesus has always been a servant because it was written plainly the FORM He existed before (GOD) and the FORM He became later (HUMAN) as servant!


The reason I had to correct your ignorance is because you keep repeating that lie of PAST TENSE which means if you can have problem with simple primary school English then your level of Bible interpretation needs to be questioned.

Thou very obvious all over your post!

Janosky:
1).
You don't have to TWIST my statement in order to protect your interests.
IT IS Emusan DISHONESTY.

Where is the twist in your statement

Janosky Original Statement:

In their conversations in the holy Bible (aside the first verse of chapter 1 of the Letters they wrote), NOBODY ELSE in the holy Bible addressed them as "Apostle Peter" etc ,Is that point too difficult for you to understand?

The fact is, you know that Paul and Peter attached the Title to themselves but your problem is nobody else addressed them like that.

1. This proves that you're a kangaroo that jumps anyhow because your deluded brother first claim was "Can you quote where the Bible mentioned anyone like Apostle Paul, Apostle Peter or Prophet Daniel? What you will see is an Apostle or Prophet referred to as "Apostle of Christ or Prophet/Man of God"

Which you even like and share the post!

Now, it's evident that both of you are lying liar and don't know your Bible.

2. That NOBODY ELSE addressed them as such is baseless in this regard and contradictory to this your statement "Other people in the Scriptures called them "Prophet". That's the point I am making"

**ANOTHER FACT:
1Cor 3:4-5, Paul NEVER arrogated the title of Apostle to himself (likewise Peter) as if it is GROSS SIN when anyone failed to call him "Apostle Paul".
I remember one Jankara Prof in my School way back in time long past, if you no call am him Church titles he go provoke like say you commit 'unforgiveable sin'....
The pompous demi god was thrown out of the System for copy,copy...
I no get time for him Nonsense !!

So just because you met one person that acted that way means that's how all of them behave. This speaks volumes of your dishonesty.

By the way, the point here is, did Bible ascribe Title to people name or not?

Which is Yes! as you agree above an below statements.

2).
Jeremiah 23:9 your claim is FALSE !

"Concerning the prophets. My heart within me is broken, all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of Jehovah, and because of his holy words."

*Emusan 2-5, You simply confirmed that THIS FACT:
NONE of the old testament Prophets ascribed the title "Prophet" to themselves.

Actually, I didn't know the essence of this statement because I never referenced Jer 23:9 and I don't know the reason for using it by you.

The Bible references I cited

Isaiah ascribed the Title of Prophet to himself likewise Jeremiah so stop lying against the scripture.

Other people in the Scriptures called them "Prophet". That's the point I am making.

This is where we're going!

Now, what do you have to say about this your deluded brother challenge?

"Can you quote where the Bible mentioned anyone like Apostle Paul, Apostle Peter or Prophet Daniel?
What you will see is an Apostle or Prophet referred to as "Apostle of Christ or Prophet/Man of God"

Maximus69:
Òpònú Olódo no yín Sir!

Jesus told his followers not to tell people that he is the Christ, to avoid attaching the title to him while he's still in their midst, but they should do so after he's gone.

Did you see anywhere his followers address him as Jesus Christ or Christ Jesus while he was still in their midst?

Well let's enlighten you Sir, it's after we're no more in your midst and unbelievers like you have missed the opportunity of identifying us that later generations will know who are those doing the work and those falsely attaching the titles to their names to call people's attention! Matthew 23:2-12

Delusion JWs....

If your lies and falsehood are busted, you stylishly come with a cover up just to divert attention from the main point.

Your cheap tactics won't work here...

The main point is, did Bible ascribe Title to peoples' name?

We can see from the scripture that the answer to that question is capital YES! Which you lied in the first place that it didn't.

Maximus69:
Is engineer a religious title?

Illiteracy is worrying you.....

And finding a way dodge my question.

If I introduce myself as "Emusan an Engineer of Almadu Bello University"

Did I ascribe the Title Engineer to myself or the University?

Paul and Peter introduced themselves as "Paul an Apostle of Christ and Peter an Apostle of Chriat"

Was the Title attached to Paul and Peter or CHRIST?

Or can you post where any of JWs publication addresses any of the past president of the Watchtower as
President Russell or President Rutherford?

If they don't, that's their Own Cup of tea even thou it was written on Wikipedia as PASTOR RUSSELL but the truth is Bible ascribed Title to people's name.

What Jesus said is clear, "none of my own followers should address himself with a religious title" Matthew 23:7-9

Lying against Christ again...

The verse was about MASTER, is Master and Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist e.t.c the same?

Even Devil your father will be so disappointed about your ignorance.

So you can continue deceiving yourself!

Why you'll continue to wallow in your delusions, ignorance, lying and illiteracy.

Janosky:
@ The BOLDED is Emusan LIES and FICTION.
ZERO PROOF for his fictitious claims..

In Emusan dreams Mr Russell addressed himself as "President Russell".

In their conversations in the holy Bible (aside the first verse of chapter 1 of the Letters they wrote), NOBODY ELSE in the holy Bible addressed them as "Apostle Peter" etc ,Is that point too difficult for you to understand?

For example, 1 Cor 3:4, did he address himself as "Apostle Paul" ?

This was your lie which I busted "Aside that, NONE of them affixed "Apostle Paul" or "Apostle Peter" to their names elsewhere in your Bible..

After this you're now grasping for air to breath....

Your balloon of lies has been punched with a tiny needle.

The truth from the scripture is that both Paul and Peter ascribed the Title "APOSTLE" to themselves.


These are the list where Bible ascribed Title to people names even including Christ Himself.

1. Jeremiah 23:9 Jeremiah himself.
2. Luke 4:17, Luke 4:27 where Christ ascribed the Title Prophet to Isaiah
3. 2 Chronicles 32:32 the Title Prophet was ascribed to Isaiah
4. 2 Chronicles 36:12 the Title Prophet was ascribed to Jeremiah
5. Ezra 6:14 the Title Prophet was ascribed to Haggai

And many more so your lies can't hold anymore.

Janosky:
Paul wrote Letters to many Congregations of early Christians in different Cities, he always introduced himself thus :" Paul , called to be an apostle of Jesus...." etc.
Likewise,Peter "a slave and apostle of Jesus.".
Aside that, NONE of them affixed "Apostle Paul" or "Apostle Peter" to their names elsewhere in your Bible..
Hebrews 3:1, Jesus is an apostle too. Was he ever addressed as "Apostle Jesus"?
Emusan NO ADD maggi and crayfish..

Emusan,DONT tell LIES, no Prophet affixed that title to his name, NONE AT ALL !

Despite the fact that I added four pictures which show where Paul and Peter attached the Title Apostle to their names you can still spew this thrash!

If I introduced my self as "Emusan an Engineer of Almadu Bello University"

Did I attached the Title Engineer to myself or to that University?

The scripture always introduces the prophets of Old as Prophet Elijah, by Isaiah the Prophet, by Jeremiah the Prophet e.t.c which is evident that Bible actually attached this Title to their names!

Yet you clown still twisting the scripture.

The point is noted.
"True believers don't attached titles to their names, though they are serving in that capacity.."

So Russell and those his successors aren't true Christians because they attached the Title "PRESIDENT" to their names.

I said it, JWs and hypocrisy are conjoined twins.

In other to pull others down you won't know the time you'll pull yourself down!

Maximus69:
Can you quote where the Bible mentioned anyone like

Apostle Paul, Apostle Peter or Prophet Daniel?

What you will see is an Apostle or Prophet referred to as
"Apostle of Christ or Prophet/Man of God"

You can never find anywhere in the Bible where the title is attached to their names!

So true believers don't attach the titles to their names, though they're serving in that capacity!

The main issue is even if undeniable facts are staring you face to face, you will turn blind eyes to to them and still wallow in your delusions.

The most astonished part is how someone who claimed to be a follower of Christ and upholding the Word of God can still boldly lie against the same Word without fear.

Paul and Peter attached APOSTLE to their names and even the Old Testament prophets aren't left behind.

But your problem is that you're too delusional and brainwashed by watchtower that you can't see truth from the Scripture itself.

Maximus69:
You don't need responding to antagonists who don't want the truth!
Jesus taught us not to attach importance to religious titles they ignored his counsel, they're even addressing themselves with the titles before unbelievers who have no business with the Bible!
And now they want to justify their lawlessness by pointing accusing fingers at the group name of the overseers of another Organization, whose members will never address themselves with religious titles!

Oh no my brother, just leave them with their unbelief!

Imagine, a delusional baby JW advising an old delusional JW of the same feather....

So Jesus gave some people Title

The early Christians even addes Apostles to their names, so they ignored Jesus counsel too bah

Janosky:
Hypocrite, Where is Emusan written in your Bible?

So you agree Governing Body is a Title.....

You don't even understand the point being discussed yet you jumped in like kangaroo....

achorladey:
He simply does not understand the COLOURED PART.


the group NAME Governing Body simply means the distinguished NAME/TITLE given to EIGHT members at the HEADQUARTERS of JWS overseeing the activities of God's people globally during this end time.

He simply does not understand that TITLE itself means "A DISTINGUISHING NAME". So GB is a TITLE that distinguish them from any other member of the organization.

That's what delusion can cause!

You can see how to justify the use of Governing Body something that can't even be found in the scripture but can quickly condemn the Title Pastor

I believe if his type was around at the time of the Apostles, he will condemn them for attaching the Title Apostle to their names!

Maximus69:
You don't know the meaning of Temple in a spiritual sense and to worship in SPIRIT and TRUTH my friend, but let me help you!

The Temple before Jesus came to the earth was situated in Jerusalem, so whoever wants to worship God acceptably must get there {John 4:20-22} but when Jesus began his ministry a Christian becomes God's Temple {1Corinthians 6:19} so people must feel the effect of pure worship in us.
If you're of God's spirit you will love us for upholding pure worship, {Matthew 5:16} but if God's spirit is not operating in you, this is what you'll be looking forward to do. John 17:14

Delusions!

Arguing arguing and arguing against pure worship, you'll finds yourself opposing just one single form of worship when you can't stand up for any, so it will be as if you approve all forms of worship except one! Matthew 10:22; Act 24:5-6

That's why I'll keep saying it that you're a hypocrite, grade A one....

I've shown you that you're the very type that should be called ARGUMENTATIVE which you even concor.

Here again claiming someone is arguing...

When it's evident that you're the delusional argumentative person on Nairaland.

Maximus69:
Delusional maximus69!

You forgot i claim to be one of the true Christians, followers of the Jewish guy who spent the rest of his life (after his baptism) always talking about faith {John 4:34} saying everyone must subscribe to his teachings to see God's kingdom! John 3:16-18

No! I didn't because your claim has no scriptural support.

Rather you truly belong to ONLY ORGANIZATION of your God.

Which is exactly what Watchtower Society is not a True followers of Christ.

Well you've said it all.
Maximus69 will continue to be in the religious section anywhere he goes{Luke 2:49} taking his time to find the lost sheep of the house of Israel! Ephesians 5:15-17

Then this support my claim that you're the very ARGUMENTATIVE PERSON, so why are you passing your delusions to other?

So it was Religion Section of Nairaland that Christ commanded you to go....delusional JWs!

Meditate on this and try to figure out the difference between the spirit you find in me with the one you're expecting to find in a TRUE Christian!

The spirit in True Christians doesn't lie or make false accusations like you commonly exhibit here even that everybody you debate with on Nairaland can quickly pick from you.

Maximus69:
So if that's what you truthfully want to say then what's your problem with Jehovah's Witnesses since you're sure there is no difference?

But you have problem with some people

Hypocrite!

Is there different or the same explanation you gave to the word PASTOR didn't apply to JWs also?

That's why you people will continue to lead when it comes to award for the best Hypocrisy!

You can see mote in some else eyes but you cant see the very one in your own eyes.

Hypocrite!

If i say Jehovah's Witnesses are the one and only organization of our own God, you will say that's what others are saying, but you will never rest seeing the post of Jehovah's Witnesses only!

Since you've been parading here on Nairaland claiming JW is the only ORGANIZATION of your God, has that one make you stop jumping from thread to thread restlessly and being tormented even in your dream?

Of course JW is the ONLY ORGANIZATION of your God because no organization in the scripture but True Followers of Christ.

ARGUMENTATIVE Emusan suffering from antijw virus!

Only if you know that this best described you but will it? No! Because you derive joy in your ignorance and delusion.

You join Nairaland not up to 2 years but your POST on Nairaland are already over 6,000 POSTS why me who joined Nairaland more than 7years haven't made up to 5,000posts.

Then a reasonable person will ask, who is more argumentative?

And guess what, more than 95% of your post is on religion section because you're a restless soul being tormented by the lies of your demonic organization.

Maximus69:
(1) NO is the answer to this question, the group name Governing Body simply means the small group overseeing the activities of God's people globally during this end time. Just as the 12 men called Apostles were overseeing the activities of Christians in the first century! Act 2:42
After narrating what will befall the first century Christian group and how their preaching and teaching work will be obstructed by the ruler of the world, Jesus promised that during his return to examine how his followers are faring on earth {Luke 18:8} he will appoint a faithful and discreet slave group that will be overseeing his followers globally! Matthew 24:45
So the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses emerged as that foretold group, that's why they're able to organise people from different races under the heavens, disarm them and made them one big and happy family of peace loving preachers and teachers globally. No other group has been able to do something of that nature! Matthew 19:26

(2) The title "Pastor" has become part of the worldly religious titles people attached to their names to make others give them undue attention {Matthew 23:8} but Governing Body IS NOT A TITLE recognized by outsiders unless some antagonists who wants to criticize Jehovah's people. Unlike churchgoers and other groups that always attach the titles to their names, members of our Governing Body are recognize only within Jehovah's Witnesses. Just as the first century Apostles were recognized only amongst the Christians!
Thank you!

The @color part is enough for open-minded people to see the level of your hypocrisy!

But unfortunately just the way many Christians holds their pastors as god just exactly the same way JWs place GB as god!

Maximus69:
Your impatience is really killing you my friend!

I have said it and you can ask any member of Jehovah's Witnesses you know the same question.

Jesus is our spiritual head NOT the GB!

But if you don't want the explanation, then you can suit yourself!

The question is:

Did your GB claim to be the spiritual head or not?

You have problem with the Title Pastor, why don't you have problem with the Title Governing Body?

Hypocrite!

Maximus69:
Delusional Maximus69!

You read my comment with your own eyes where i typed saying "Jesus is the one and only spiritual head"
All you need to do is tactfully asked "what is the position of our own Governing Body?"
That's all!
Then you allow me (who said Jesus is our spiritual head) to explain!

You think everyone is a clown like you....

Now you want to explain the POSITION of GB, something thats not hidden to anyone but can quickly pick offense with the TITLE "Pastor"

Just say it openly here that the Governing Body aren't THE SPIRITUAL HEAD of watchtower society and let your hypocritical mouth be put to shame!

Liar and Hypocrite!

@OP

Nobody has right to permanently ban anybody even scripture didn't support that, the best is to come together to help the person in such situation.

Maximus69:
The title "Pastor" is the problem!

In the first century all the Christians see one another as brothers, the only spiritual head is Christ! Matthew 23:8-12

Always deviating from the main point!

If you have problem with the word "Pastor", then change it to ELDER & DEACON

So because they see one another as brothers does it mean there's no LEADER AMONG THEM?

You have problem with the TITLE "PASTOR" but you don't have problem with the TITLE "Governing Body"

What does it mean to Govern?

DIDN'T your GOVERNING BODY see themselves as the SPIRITUAL HEAD of the Watchtower Society?


Didn't this go against your claim that "The ONLY SPIRITUAL HEAD is Christ!

Hypocrite!

Always see Mott in someone else's eye but will be too blind to see his own.

So when Peter denied Jesus (something Jesus himself count as a serious sin) this same Peter continued to lead the Apostles. Even when he fumbled by letting himself to be carried away by the spirit of nepotism, Apostle Paul corrected him.
In all of this, Peter remains one of the 12 Apostles!

So how do we get a balance view?

Sin is what we were born with, this means none of us is perfect except our Lord and Master (Jesus Christ).

Jesus said we should be prepared to assist one another to keep the faith alive in us. Therefore certain measures should be taken to help the brother that has been overwhelmed by the spirit of the world.
But if he resists the help of God's holy spirit, then he must be disfellowshiped no matter his part in the congregation of God!

After you know this, why did you start with the above statement?

Jozzy4:
Like I said , Good u are learning

Liar who claimed a writer can't be an Author when the source that himself quoted says otherwise.

Romans 11:39 all things came from him , THROUGH HIM and For him.

Now you're getting more confused.

The same ALL THINGS were created THROUGH HIM and for HIM... that's Jesus!

There must be a competition between the The Father and Jesus since they're struggling who will win this ALL THINGS!

The difference is What came through the Father included Jesus and everything else from Jesus .

If you look at that " FOR HIM " it included Jesus because Jesus belong to the Father too being his creation.

BUT ALL THINGS CREATED was also for HIM Jesus which which means Jesus belongs to HIMSELF

This is getting interesting!

But in the case of Jesus when it says all things are through him and for him . it doesnt include the Father.

Don't divert our attention to another thing.

If ALL THINGS ARE THROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM--That is Jesus! According to your logic it means Jesus belongs to HIMSELF.

That's the point!

because you're trying to include Jesus in ALL THINGS that came from the Father but EXCLUDED the same Jesus from the SAME ALL THINGS that passed through Him!

Calm down, Job 38 mentioned the Creation of the waters that fill the sea. Contrary to your lies that earth automatically has water . the Bible saysit was God that covered it with water after he has established its foundation. ( the same foundation of the earth itself the angels witness at Job 38 4-7 )

Genesis creative days never included the birth of waters of the sea.

I've corrected your ignorance in my post above.

Job didn't use WATERS but seas

Lying liar...

Jozzy4:
We know what passed through Jesus . but what passed through the Father himself .. Jesus?

I've told you never you ask question when you didn't answer my question first!

What are the THINGS that passed through Jesus if you know?

ALL THINGS(Jesus included-acxording to you) THROUGH THE FATHER now the scripture says the SAME ALL THINGS passed through Jesus.

Isn't this an evidence that Jesus was the one who created Himself?

Or was scripture lying the Father made something without using Jesus?

We should ask you this, you're the one who claimed!
1. Father created Jesus first
2. Then Jesus was used to create other things

But what did scripture say?

The Bible says, ALL THINGS (Jesus included-according to you) from Father passed through Jesus! Isn't this evident that Jesus passed through Himself?

So Job 38 cannot refer to creative days . Job 38 mention birth of the waters that fill the sea.

Waoooooo Mr delusion.

Waters FILL THE SEA again

Firstly, you lied and I've been trying to correct you but you're very stubborn to correction.

Job didn't mention WATERS but SEAS which is the reason I even went further to explain the meaning of the choice words used by both JOB and Genesis

Job fits into the six creative days because the USAGE of seas shows different from the body of WATERS GOD CREATED SEAS from in Gen 1:1

It was in Gen 1:10 that God called the gathering of the waters SEAS and according to STRONG the meaning of seas deals with violent which is what Job 38 alluded to because Job 38 says "BURST OUT" this is an act of force or violent.

You are not smart , Barrister was playing hide and seek with you

Only children play hide and seek which is the evidence that you people are not intelligent.

You just confirmd my point

Show me where it says the Father LIVES in eternity ?

Who, The Bible or your deluded brother?

Then we come back to was Jesus God the son then ?

I love where we are in this discussion

Just know that you haven't answered my question yet

Jozzy4:
No reply .. Nice one. Next time dont make that blunder again. There is human writers not human authors for the Bible. Good you are learning

Your own source was there for everyone to see how a lying liar can never repent. So I don't need to waste my time on that.

FATHER and Jesus are different persons .. If one of them came through the other . then the statement is valid.

But if none of them came through another but are separate , Then what exactly came through the Father too ?

Tell us the ALL THINGS that came through the Father that was different from ALL THINGS that came through Jesus.

Stop being stupid and next time if you don't answer question(s) never ask me any question.

I said it , You lack knowledge .

Psalm 104:5,6

He has established the earth on its foundations ( the foundations mentioned in Job 38 . You see your life) ... YOU COVERED IT WITH DEEP WATERS as with a garment . The waters stood above the mountains

So the waters was made AFTER he established the earth on its foundations together with mountains created also within the waters .

So The water was BIRTH after God laid the foundation of the earth ! Job 38 is correct the events precede Creative days.

In case you forget let me remind you again,

Job 38 was part of the six creative days not part of the first CREATION of Gen 1:1

I showed you that the marginal reference your confused organization cited was Gen 1:9 which happens under the six creative days! So Job 38 perfectly fits into the six creative days not the FIRST CREATION of Gen 1:1

Which I even attached a quote of your deluded organization that shows Gen 1:1 is totally different from the six creative days!

Evidently, Job 38 can't be part of Gen 1:1

So, there is ONLY ONE EVENT THAT HAPPENED AT THE BEGINNING which is Genesis 1:1 for "In the BEGINNING God created the heavens and the earth"

So both Jesus, (angels since you liar have added that), and heavens and the earth can both be created in the beginning unless you will agree that they were all created SIMULTANEOUSLY

Bible told us what was CREATED in the BEGINNING it's lying liar like you, the twister of the word of God that says No! Bible was wrong, Jesus and Angels were first created.

Jozzy4:
Father and Jesus are different persons .

Something Passed through the Father which made him the one through whom all things came . Who or what was made through the Father ?

Didn't something PASSED THROUGH Jesus also?

What is the difference between ALL THINGS that passed through the Father from ALL THINGS that passed through Jesus?

You didn't answer that as you stylishly boycotted it.

Liar!

Can you create what already exists ?

You will soon shot yourself in the foot!

No!

The entire live in eternity was coined by you. So deal with it , Jehovah , Jesus and the angels precede creation. Of heaven and earth , so that made them all in your eternity . are Jesus and the angels not all Sons ( creations) of this Father.?

Liar like his father the devil...

You're trying to confuse us but I'm smarter than you and I won't allow that to happen.

I asked, where was Jesus and the angels live since heaven hasn't been created? And we all know that ALL CREATED BEINGS need a SPACE TO OCCUPY

Your deluded brother says with the Father, then he asked me where was the Father before heaven was created which I reply ETERNITY!

He can't object this since the scripture attest to it that the Father lives in eternity.

And we also know that ONLY AN ETERNAL BEING lives in ETERNITY!

Now since you people claimed both Jesus and the Angels joined the Father in ETERNITY?

It then means they are all ETERNAL too, I know you can't with this, yet you still want us to agree with your shallow mind that BOTH CREATED JESUS and The Angels were all EXIST before the CREATION OF HEAVENS.

The question now is : Is Jesus God the son in this eternity ?

You haven't answered my question until then I'll answer you.

Jozzy4:
You still dont learn.

A writer can only be an author when he can claim legal responsibility for the work which makes him the owner of the writes piece of information.

This men in the Bible cannot claim ownership for the content.

When will you have sense ?

You're still twisting your own source....

I know you will never have sense till you die

All things are also THROUGH the Father .

What came through the Father ?

Tueh!

So how does ALL THINGS which come through the Father different from ALL THINGS that come through Jesus?

Where did the waters come from , are they created ? Yes.

Another display of ignorance!
The creation of earth in Gen 1:1 contains the WATERS, why the SEAS is the product of the SIX CREATIVE DAYS

Get that into your empty skull

Been brought from womb is an act of creation.

So which one came first, the creation of the heavens and the earth Gen 1:1 or the six creative days?

because if seas which is a product of six creative days (which your confused organization attested to) suddenly came out of womb again then it's either you lack understanding of that verse or you just decided to be a perpetual liar like your father devil.

Jozzy4:
No, something passed through the Father too , which make the scripture says the ALL THINGS CAME THROUGH THE FATHER - Romans 11:29
Jesus must be the work of his hands to claim that Glory.

Now you've jumped to Roman

How does the ALL THINGS(Jesus included) who came from the Father different from ALL THINGS (Jesus included) through Jesus?

Is it the same ALL THINGS that passed through the Father that ALSO PASSED through Jesus or the are different?

You are a Liar . Devil is your mentor

That was cited for part A: doors for the sea.

Not its coming from WOMB

You can bring from womb what is already in existence. Womb is an act of creation.

See the face of a liar once again,

So how can a sea that happened in SIX CREATIVE DAYS suddenly came to existence later?

Like I said, ignorance couple with lies are the main problem that you people have.

I've showed you that Job 38 was part of the SIX CREATIVE DAYS yet your deluded mind couldn't grasp it.

Is Jesus God the Son in eternity ?

What is the rationale behind a created beings exist in ETERNITY?

Only an eternal being can exists in ETERNITY, do you mean both Jesus and the Angels are eternal?

These are the questions I've been asking you idiots since!

Jozzy4:
All things came from the Father does not exclude Jesus . .

And the same ALL THINGS are THROUGH JESUS does not exclude Jesus...FIXED!

Is it not the same ALL THINGS that came from the Father that also PASS THROUGH JESUS?

Check the usage of the word Womb I'm the entire bible it refer to Been born, Coming into existence . Genesis 1 does nor mention the waters been born , it only says they are gathered

Gen 1:1 IN THE BEGINNING God created the Heavens and the earth

I've explained the usage of the womb in that verse.

From your own confused organization translation the cited scripture for Job 38:8 are Psalms 33:7 "He gathers the seawaters like a dam; (a) He puts the surging waters in storehouses." and Prov 8:29 "When he set a decree for the sea
That its waters should not pass beyond his order, (a) When he established* the foundations of the earth,"

Look at the two bracket (a) it's a marginal reference guess where it referenced? Genesis 1:9

Yet you deluded people have been trying to shift the event of Job outside the SIX CREATIVE DAYS!

Good u came back to this.
Is Jesus God the son in this eternity ?

Answer my question first!

And I will answer your question.

Jozzy4:
You still refuse to learn .
From Wikipedia


" The term writer is often used as a synonym of author, although the latter term has a somewhat broader meaning and is used to convey legal responsibility for a piece of writing , even if its composition is anonymous, unknown or collaborative. "

Author has broader meaning , an author is the owner of the piece of writing. When will you have sense ?

Author has broader meaning but does it negate a writer being an Author as you claimed in your post?

Lying liar like your father the devil.

Then It means not all things came from the Father if Jesus is excluded. But we know you are the Liar here and that's why Jesus is a son. Father preceded the son.

Idiot address my point:

ALL THINGS (Jesus included) came from the Father....
The same ALL THINGS (Jesus included) pass through Jesus!

Then it also means NOT ALL THINGS pass THROUGH Jesus Christ, if Jesus is excluded....and it means God is lying to us!

But what did the scripture says?

It says just as ALL THINGS CAME FROM THE FATHER, ALL THINGS ALSO are THROUGH JESUS!

Lying liar JWs.

The waters are gathered together NOT BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE in Genesis 1.

Which verse are you referring to before I know what to say?

Job 38 says they were there when it burst from WOMB , brought to existence.

Sense !

SEAS not Waters

Just as I explained to your deluded brother up, SEAS was used to show the violent gathering of the WATERS before DRY LAND (which includes cornerstone) appears.

The whole earth was covered with WATERS which is very calm and mild.

In fact, the plausible explanation is that, since Angels were not there when HEAVENS AND THE EARTH were created, they will be so surprised and astonished to have seen how a great body of WATERS rose up in violent way to pave way for DRY LAND TO APPEAR.

This witness alone will be such a thing of joy for the angels, had it been they witness the CREATION OF HEAVENS AND THE EARTH in Gen 1:1 There's nothing there for them to surprise because you will agree with me that creation of HEAVEN alone will surpass that of earth in thousand time.

You must died in your ignorance!

Barristter07:
Jozzy4 already did justice to the above

It's justice to you because both of you lack sense!

First , you probably forget that what is inside the sea is actually the same Mayim

Genesis 1:21,22

" And God created the great sea creatures and all living creatures that move and Swarm IN THE WATERS ... Be fruitful and become many and FILL THE WATERS OF THE SEA "

Liar.....
After I show you GREEK STRONG...

The usage of the SEAS differentiated it from WATERS which God split....That's why in Job 38 the description is sort of VIOLENT action which is the meaning of the SEAS according to STEONG!

The question is, why didn't Gen 1:2 use SEAS?

It's evident that, at the six creative days it was when a violent gathering of WATERS occurred which God called SEAS.

What you called Sea is actually the same Mayim that existed before creative days ... Nowhere in the creative days were thus waters formed . but at Job 38:8 it says the Sea ( waters filling it ) once burst from from womb ( Womb birth , born , came into existence ) . this precedes Creative days.

You're a perpetual liar....

Even when I post the meaning of both MAYIM and AYAM from STRONG you can still spew this thrash.

You can see how ignorant you are now
Look at this your own statement "but at Job 38:8 it says the Sea ( waters filling it ) once burst from from womb ( Womb birth , born , came into existence )

You intentionally inserted WOMB birth, BORN, came into existence when the reference to womb was to demonstrate THE VIOLENT FORCE of the gathering of the SEAS.

Job 38:6 mention again " earth Cornerstone " . This was not part of the details of Creative days . Creative days never mention how God built the structure of the earth. But this expression at Job 38 refer to its construction

Stop lying.....
If cornerstone wasn't part of creative days, why did God command DRY LAND to appear?

Does CORNERSTONE not the one holding DRY LAND in place?

Ole...

Once again, Gen 1 it's only the beginning no other beginning!

IGNORING PART:
You haven't explained the rational of a CREATED BEING EXISTS ETERNITY because you're busy ignoring that part.

Explain how a CREATED BEINGS (Jesus and the angels) join the Father in ETERNITY because only ETERNAL BEING can exist in ETERNITY.

Do you want to tell us that both Jesus and the Angels are also ETERNAL?

Jozzy4:
You now realize how stupid you sound. So next time a writer is not an author, unless he himself is the source of what he wrote.

You have been educated now right ?

The @underlined is real funny and just shows how a liar like you will never repent.

You quoted Wikipedia when you're to define "who is Author?" but when you want to define "Who is a writer?" your source of information suddenly change. Why? because you know Wikipedia will expose your lie, that's why you can say the @underlined.

There is only one source for creation, The Father. 1Cor 8:6

The beautiful thing is it also says THE FATHER, FROM WHOM ALL THINGS ( Jesus included ) CAME .

And your empty brain couldn't phantom also that the same "ALL THINGS (Jesus included) pass THROUGH Jesus which means Jesus is the one who created Himself.

You are not really wise .

Coming from the chief of most ignorant.

One single question will dismantle all the rants above . point for me : On which day of Creation were the waters FORMED ?


Because at Job 38:8 it says the Angels witness when the waters were birth .


You are not wise I dey tell you

After I pointed out that Job 38 talked about SEAS you can still openly lied that Job 38 says the Angels witness when the WATERS were birth.

Gen 1 used WATERS it was during the six creative days that the word SEAS first used.

See how you exposed your ignorance and lying attitude again.

As it stands, Gen 1 it's only THE BEGINNING that happened first!

Again JWs are wrong and liar! Just as their father the devil

Jozzy4:
You are stupid, writer is not an author. None of the writers are author they are not the creator or originator of what they wrote

Your frustration just begin and you'll cry lass lass

Rev 3:14 he gave you earlier and the question you have been avoiding shows how stupid you are again.

Is an arch enemy not an enemy ?

If ALL THINGS(including Jesus) came from the Father and the same ALL THINGS(including Jesus) came through Jesus Christ, isn't that means Jesus came through Himself just as what this thread is all about?

Deluded JWs....

The angels witness the creation of the sea, 70% of what made up the earth .. Without this sea earth is not formed . use your brain , Job 38 is Not just preparation of the dry land . Lie lie
Cc: Barristter07

If not because your brain is paining you,

EARTH WAS LIFELESS at the beginning which makes it void and without FORM and THE SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters (Mayim)

Now, here is where your problem lies, the word used in Gen 1:2 translated waters is MAYIM, this word according to STRONG: water, figuratively juice, urine, flood, spring e.t.c

Now, in verse 10 the waters under heaven called YAM (seas) from STRONG: from unused root meaning to roar; a sea (as breaking in noisy surf) e.t.c

Prov 8 also used the word MAYIM which is the reason I said, Prov 8 description fit into Gen 1 while Job 28 isn't.

Now if you look at Job it was SEA that was USED

And it still remains that Gen 1:1 was actually true and you JWs are the liar because the description of Job 38 perfectly fits into the SIX DAYS CREATIVE not the first Creation of heavens and the earth.

Creative days began after the waters were already formed . BEFORE THE WATERS ARE FORMED, The angels have been existing , they saw how this waters were formed . [b] which proved they exist before the planet earth itself . Earth in verse 4 is the planet and the first water in it and how it was made was pointed at verse 8 . Sense is far far far from una . no wonder writer became author .


Cc: Barrister 07

You just exposed your ignorance since you couldn't differentiate between Waters and SEAs as used by the Author of Job and Gen 1

And I remember you couldn't answer my question then....

If Angels and Jesus were created before heavens, where would they live?

Your deluded brother who wanted to rescue you said with the Father in eternity....Do you agree with him?

Jozzy4:
Keep shut ... Even blabbing in ignorance

, Writers is not the same as author . Author means creator or originator of the content. I can write for someone and yet not be the author of the Material .

God is the Author of the Bible but to eliminate human author out of Bible is the height of stupidity.

Jozzy4:
" Get it right anything you received through the inspiration of God comes directly from God. The reason why Holyspirit reveal that statement through Timothy is the point you stated above "void of the writer's point of view" it means all those words is not just an imagination of man but what the spirit of God has revealed through man. " Emusan

https://www.nairaland.com/1313081/bible-word-god

I do say it that, you people lack simple comprehension....

I didn't say God isn't the Author of the Bible....you can proof me wrong if I said so....my point is eliminating HUMAN AUTHOR from the scripture is the height of stupidity. That's my point!

Definition of an author
An author is the creator or originator of any written work such as a book or play, and is also considered a writer. More broadly defined, an author is "the person who originated or gave existence to anything" and whose authorship determines responsibility for what was created.[1] - Wikipedia

How can you be the author when according to Emusan it comes directly from God ?

You're the very one who made a quoted from Wikipedia but unfortunately you're so daft to see how what you quoted exposed your ignorance!

First the definition of an Author from your own source says "An author is the creator or originator of any written work such as a book or play, and is also considered a writer..."

Now, Who are the WRITERS of Bible?

You can see the reason I said to eliminate human Author from the Bible is the height of stupidity.