₦airaland Forum

TATIME:
Of course Maximus refused to argue!
And that's our ministry for you. We're to make simple presentations before STRANGERS and if our presentation didn't sound appealing to the listener we must take our leave.
That is what Maximus{a new convert} is saying, but when you're not seeing the face of the one questioning you and such an inquisitor is insisting you should make a response then some of our brothers will feel like showing the one asking that WE KNOW HOW TO ANSWER EACH PERSON whether visible or faceless social media inquisitors like you!

You're not arguing yet this thread has entered 32pages what if you people want to argue?

Besides, the useless excuse of not arguing will come when you people are in tight Conner and your devilish doctrines are exposed but immediately one of you come, raises another issue which is different from subject matter, the rest of you found your barking voice again.

Your brother will spam my mention when I even try to ignore him....and you can still say you don't argue. Well I know hypocrisy and JWs are like 5&6

Jozzy4:
They also say God the son exist before creation , didn't they ?

Why God the Son ?

They also said Jesus exists before creation...

Why Jesus

OkCornel:
@Jozzy4 and @emusan

What's your take on these verses? Does it in anyway resolve what you've been talking about?

Psalms 110 v 1-4;

1 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

No this doesn't address it as both issues are different.

We are talking about the Son of God in His preexistence as Human

Jozzy4:
Nope , answer me.

Trinitarians maintain Jesus exist as God the son before his birth

Why is he a Son by identity ?

I have also told you that what they mean is that the identity of what the Son is before being part of creation.

Are you saying you haven't hard Trinitarians saying Jesus is the Word of God?

Jozzy4:
You didn't make any point different from what he said nah, The Angel only show that God is his Father .

Has God always been his Father or just on earth ?

Read my reply to your brother above!

It means you didn't read previous posts but just jump in and started asking questions

Jozzy4:
That's exactly what am asking

So he was a son by identity before coming to earth ?

Read my reply to your brother above, I have addressed that!

Jozzy4:
Are you still a trinitarian ?

Does God the Son exist before Jesus came to earth ?

Does the Father - Son relationship exist before creation ?

Your ignorance didn't know when people talk about God the Son, they only refer to the identity of what the Son is before coming to earth.

That's why I do say, without knowing when scripture is talking about Christ in His preexisting form and when He became part of the creation. You won't understand shittty

Barristter07:
Every reasonable reading the context knew that pronouncement came as a result of Mary wondering how this will be possible without an human Father . the angel only affirm that what will be born [She wasn't pregnant at The time] Retains God as his Father
Thereby a son of God

One funny thing about discussing with JWs is their outrightly lie and lack of scriptural understanding they always want to rub on your face.

"The pronouncement came as a result of Mary wondering" according to your lie yet Vs 32 clearly stated that "He shall be great, and shall be CALLED THE SON OF THE HIGHEST"

Even your NWT says "...And for that reason..." for what reason? Mary's wondering or because what God will do?

Barristter07:
God sent his son

After which came the statement " born of a woman "

Isn't that clear enough ? Galatian 4;4

Am asking: Was God his Father before birth or only when he was born?

The identity is not just The Word. The identity is a son
Romans quoted for you is enough point
God sent his son

After which came the statement " in the likeness of flesh "

@ the point of been sent and instructed on what to say, he is a son.

The @color says alot about the spirit in you!

Barristter07:
Totally off point . when was he sent ? Because scripture reveal at the point of been sent he was a son.
1. @,color part, which you highlight, Is God his Father before is coming to earth ?

2. When was he sent ?

I gave you an analysis of Angel Gabriel been sent , his identity as at when he was sent was called angel Gabriel, and when was he sent , From heaven or was it when he appreaed on earth ?

We need to know the identity of him who God send from heaven !

I'll only reply your last statement because any reasonable person can see I've done justice to your point about SENT

The identity of what God sent is clearly stated and spelled out in John 1:14 "And the WORD became flesh..."

In fact, had it been you can grab the concept of John 1:14 you'll see that it was after the WORD became flesh that His glory was only beheld as the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father"

Can you show us where it was written that the Son became flesh?

Barristter07:
Okay , let's see




@ highlighted, the main issue is when was he sent ?

Luke 1:26 said Angel Gabriel was SENT from God. When was he sent ? The moment he appeared on earth or BEFORE ?

===
As at the time of this declaration, Mary isn't even yet pregnant, Mary asked :

" How is this to be , since I am not having sexual relations with a man ? "

Emphasis on with a MAN.

The Angel now answered by explaining that what she will born will be a result of Gods operation through his holy spirit, thus what is given birth to will be Son of God . meaning he will retain God as his Father Just as he has always been

The text doesn't change the fact that he has been a son before his human birth. But he will retain God as Father . not a man as Mary think

Romans 8:3 ' God send his own son, in the likeness of sinful flesh '

God send who ? His son


Not as a spirit but in the likeness of man


Meaning God was his Father even in heaven .

If you had answered the question I posed to you concerning Galatians 4:4 , When was he sent ? In Marys womb or before his birth ? his sending together with the instruction on what to say or speak precedes the declaration to Mary

Who was sent ? His son

My main concern is @color

1. See how you change the text of that verse from "should be CALLED son of God" to "Will be son of God" Why? How convenient it is for you people to just twist the scripture without the fear of God?

Even if we go with the choice of text you choose, it means there was a time that what Mary will give birth to is not son of God since "WILL BE SON OF GOD" shows that there was a time He is not son of God.

Every reasonable person knows that if Jesus is son from beginning, the angel will never use that phrase.

2. You went ahead to give the verse different meaning to suit yourself that's why you have to change the text.

3. Had it being that you pay close attention to the conversation between the angel and Mary, you will have known the angel emphasized on three things

i. The name of the child will be called Jesus, v31 you are to name him Jesus.
ii. The child will be called Son of the Most High, v32 This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High
iii. The child also will be called Son of God, v35 And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son. NWT

Your own translation says "THE ONE WHO IS BORN will be CALLED..."
If you can grab this, then you'll understand why scripture can say:

God sent His son IN the likeness of sinful flesh or God sent His Son BORN OF A woman.

So the title SON OF GOD was applied to what Mary gave birth to not about the divine nature of what dwells in what Mary born.

Dp

What is the personality of the person who rotates all these positions per/night

That's the hypocrisy I use to talk about JWs.
From the screenshot, what those people are saying is that "so far you're not a Deeper life members you're going to hell" but see how you twisted and deviated from what you posted by yourself.

Maximus69:
Hmmm,
So what you're saying now is that the one posting that hateful comment isn't a member of deeperlife, yet he/she typed such with so much conviction!

Provide the evidence that they were Deeper life members.

If somebody says "One thing I HATE about JWs is...," will you consider such to be a JWs?

The OP of that thread is a core Deeper life member and I haven't seen him with such statement since I joined Nairaland.

But I can't count time JWs have made that statement.

Why do you love arguing blindly?

You argue blindly and with incoherent.

Would you prefer if we present this for other followers to share their views on the post?

Then who stop you from doing so? But remember to support your claim with fact.

Well you can show her from the scriptures that they are wrong, but know one thing today: Kumuyi will not voice out for people to hold him by his comment yet you will SEE the teachings in the lifestyle and attitude of his followers.

Just look at the @underlined and see how shallow and myopic you are.

If Kumuyi didn't voice it out, where did people hear it from?

Kumuyi do LIVE broadcast, print book e.t.c

Jesus the one you claim to be following said 'out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks' Luke 6:45
You may continue deceiving yourself but it's obvious that the dubious man knows how to implant hatred in the minds of those CONTRIBUTING money in his purse against others!

See the way you're accusing someone you don't have evidence for what people are saying about.

On the contrary Jehovah's Witnesses are friendly neighbours who will chat, play, eat, drink, dance and join other people in wholesome social gatherings.

So it's only JWs that do these things, right?
Just type it on Google "Are JWs friendly?" and see different responses.

So that you'll be shocked to know that if you're doing all these, they're some certain JWs who took their own belief to an extreme. Which is true in any religion!

The only thing that separate us from all other people like a huge fence is anything having to do with WORSHIP!
So register that in your heart!

You've deviated from the main point.

Where was scripture said you must belong to a group

Maximus69:
i know you are always against Jehovah's Witnesses using the practical applications of what is written in the Bible to present ourselves as the ONE and ONLY Christian group worldwide.

I'm still waiting for you to show me where it is written in the scripture as a proof for your "only one group".
Yet you're lying of "using practical applications of what is written in the Bible"

Well i screenshot this from an ongoing thread on NL and i will like you to explain what is happening here!
It's like a so called born again Pastor is implanting DEEPER hatred in the minds of his followers against other without any practical application!

So in essence what you're saying is that the so called born again pastor and your watchtower are the same.

From the screenshot, the two people discussing were not an actual members of Deeper life....for you to justify your claim, give us where any member of Deeper life made such claim or a message from their leader or their publications.

Imagine, if someone draws his conclusion about your organization based on what two non JWs are discussing without fact.

Lastly, if their members made such claim in my presence or on NL, my own is to show them from the scripture that they are wrong.

Barristter07:
Exactly, how this is a rebuttal of that Galatians 4:4 , I still don't get ? It only complements the fact that the one who was sent is a son of God. Unless you want to deny his prehuman existence .

Galatians 4:4 said God sent his son., born of woman.

Emphasis on " SENT "

the sending was before the human birth !


" I speak the things I have seen while with my father " John 8:38

" the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak ... So whatever I speak, I speak Just as the Father has told me " John 12:49,50


At the point of been sent and instructed on what to say and speak , he was with the Father as a Son .

You didn't address Luke 1:35, why? Because you know that's where you got understanding of "SENT" wrong.

The angel told Mary "...therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God"

Do you understand this?
If you don't, then it will be hard for you to comprehend while scripture always talks about Jesus as being SENT.

"Therefore also that holy thing (or person) - shall be called the Son of God - We may plainly perceive here, that the angel does not give the appellation of Son of God to the Divine nature of Christ; but to that holy person or thing "το ἁγιον" which was to be born of the virgin, by the energy of the Holy Spirit..." Adam Clarke's Commentrary

Now have you found out when scripture is talking about Jesus before He became part of creation and after He entered creation?

Barristter07:
While you didn't air your view on Word of God .. Either it means a person with that name or just the pronouncement from God's mouth. I will let it slide for now

Your view on Galatians 4:4

" But when the full limit of the time arrived, God sent his son , who was born of a woman "

Question:

Whom did God sent to be born of a woman?

I know you lack simple comprehension, so I'm not surprised!

God sent His Son!
The Son was born of a woman...

"God sent forth his Son - Him who came immediately from God himself, made of a woman, according to the promise, Genesis 3:15; produced by the power of God in the womb of the Virgin Mary without any intervention of man; hence he was called the Son of God. See Luke 1:35, and the note there." - Adam Clarke's Commentary

"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." Luke 1:35 KJV

Do you understand this verse especially the @underlined?

I'll soon turn this around so that you'll know what you're dealing with but let's continue first.

TATIME:
OK!
You're
Not ready to consider the presentation of others!
Not ready to present any group even yours for scrutiny!
Not ready to investigate matters for certainty!
Only ready for arguments.
Well sorry to disappoint you Sir, i'm not a parrot that feels like throwing words into the air without motives, therefore i don't have any reason to chat with you!
Farewell!

People who have been discussing with JWs here are all using scripture because that's where true Christians find their truth.

I asked you to show us from the scripture where it was written that the body of Christ will be one group, you couldn't!

I asked you the scripture says judgement will begin in the house of God, why? After all you said, "In the midst of TRUE worshipers, Jesus have destroyed such indomitable missiles! Isaiah 2:2-4, Micah 4:1-3"

Why would judgement begin from the house of God if God has already established ONE TRUE GROUP

You're busy defending a group when you actually lack scriptural understanding of the Salvation of your soul.

Maximus69:
Na wah o!
Come and see agitation for goodness sake.

Well you've just heard what over 8,000,000 people from all races throughout the globe believes and saying!

So your furious agitation, bitterness of heart and scriptural quotation WITHOUT any practical applications can't stop them from saying it both in words and actions.
Good night Sir!

Now you called this agitation and quoting scripture without practical applications?

Are you God to have known this?

There are millions of missionaries all over the world today doing great works for Christ that many JWs can't even match and what scripture says is that if you're named with the name of Christ depart from iniquities....but you say you must belong to an organization...

Just because you've been brainwashed by watchtower to only reason that no one except JWs practice what they preach is the most stupid of it all.

Maximus69:
Sir, it's up to you to decide what you will do about the whole issue.

I've decided and it's up to you to see whether you actually presenting the scripture of man ideology.

When Jesus said what was quoted at John 3:16, Nicodemus never started agitating in behalf of his group{Pharisees} instead he kept quiet and watch the outcome of Jesus' claim.

Another lie against scripture yet claiming to be the true follower of Christ

Christ has cleared Nicodemus mind and it was Nicodemus' encounter with Christ that brought fourth John 3:16

So why are you agitating on behalf of your group

For your information, Jesus' statement indicates that whoever wants to see God's favour{salvation} from any part of the earth must accept his teachings!

Now it's indicated not direct meaning which you've been using all this while....

Another scripture twisting...can you show us where Christ made that statement?

While Nicodemus, Joseph Arimatea and others from different nations were observing Jesus' words and agreed, majority of Bible carriers of his time were agitating in behalf of their various groups!

Are you no more a GROUP?
You see your life outside, others see themselves as Christ body but it's you who see yourself as a group...can you see the difference and how your statement rightly goes against you?

Please if you're truthful that this same tone is heard in other groups, then what is your headache as JWs are saying the same thing?

I only pointed out your hypocrisy, how you see some carrying Bible openly and saying s/he is a born again Christian as doing eyes service but you claiming up and down and turning yourself to God to have known that JWs are the only true followers Christ is right thing.

Well thanks anyway, i'm not ready to start arguing or trading words with you Sir, just say the same and allow observers to do their research.

Hypocrite! What have you been doing if you're not ready to argue?

But know one thing: YOU CAN'T DICTATE WHAT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T SAY WHEN ALL THE OTHERS HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, EXPRESSION AND WORSHIP! Act 5:27-29

You've repeated this same stupid statement once again.

Who is dictating

Pointing out your hypocrisy is now dictating to you....

TATIME:
Thanks for these thought provoking questions!
(1) I was a Muslim before studying the Bible with JWs,

Who asked you story?

they presented their organization as the one and only religious group possessing those four qualities.

Now another boasting statement, are you God to have known this?

Yet their organization is full of lies and hypocrisy!

But that's no big deal, you too can do well to present your own group so that everyone can observe those qualities in your group.

I'm not here to present any group just like there were no group during early church...i will only tell you what scripture demanded from us:

"Consequently, my beloved ones, just as you have always obeyed, not only during my presence but now much more readily during my absence, keep working out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phi 2:12 NWT

"KJV 2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."

But i can never agree that Jesus as highly intelligent, powerful, orderly and efficacious as he is, can not ORGANISE his followers to form just one single group identifiable worldwide for everyone to SEE the required qualities in their assembly!

So it's no more what scripture says but what your shallow brain feels.

Where was it written in the scripture that the body of Christ will be ONE GROUP?

(2) NO! There are many factors that can cause hatred amongst people, but the only two that Satan is using to create enmity between inhabitants of one place and the other are RACISM and POLITICS, apart from this two you can like or hate someone due to his lifestyle but NOT an entire tribe where you don't even know many of them personally!
But with these two Satanic weapons, you can hate someone even though you've never seen him/her before! Just say he belongs to so and so political party and the hatred begins, or say he is from so and so tribe!

All these just because your organization kicked against politics yet from scripture the most powerful tools Satan uses are to raise false teachers, persecutors against the body of Christ e.t.c but you just puff out something that wasn't established in the scripture just to massage your doctrinal ego.

In the midst of TRUE worshipers, Jesus have destroyed such indomitable missiles! Isaiah 2:2-4, Micah 4:1-3

Liars....after claiming to be the one doing the will of Christ yet you can lie against the same Christ by saying what He didn't say.

Even scripture says judgement will begin in His own house....

If Christ has actually destroyed such, why must judgement begin in the House that Christ has built by himself?

Are you still saying, is this same ONE TRUE GROUP that judgement of Christ will start from!

You people lack scriptural understanding but only quick to defend organization while dying spiritualy.

Maximus69:
That is not a problem Sir!

It's not actually a problem but that's what is called hypocrisy!

I think it's just between shadeyinka and i, but you too can make the same claim and back it up with a critical, logical and constructive debate.

Now it's to back it up with critical, logical and constructive debate!

Jesus said he is the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through him!

Then are you God to know those whose have access to the Father through Christ

I can't expect anything short of that from his TRUE followers, i strongly believe that tone must always be in their statements

Kindly list some groups this tone wasn't in their statement too

after all Jesus said NOT all those calling me lord lord will be approved adding that many will be disapproved, he even said there will be blind guides leading many into destruction.

He said many will said on "THAT DAY" are you now Jesus to have known this?

What if you group is the same blind guides leading many of you into this destruction

So if a group is saying 'we are the only group practicing what he taught' i will like to do my own investigation instead of agitating because of my own group or other groups that i can't vouch for!

No! You didn't didn't do shi.t investigation rather you quickly tag them eyes service people because they carry Bible OPENLY and say they are Born again Christian. Which they don't even shout up and down as you hypocrites do but will only ask you.

Maximus69:
We're all just acting on PERSONAL feelings to refute false allegations levelled against the one and only TRUE congregation of Christ.

When you people pressed and hook at the wall's edge, you change tune like well only God knows who is truly rendering true service.

At the other hand, you called people carrying Bible openly and claiming to be Born again Christian as people doing eyes service that no truer of God servant will be claiming such up and down!

But here you are today, turning yourself to God to have known that JWs are the "ONE AND ONLY TRUE CONGREGATION OF CHRIST" and even boasting about it always on social media.

When I said, JWs and hypocrisy are 5&6 some people will think otherwise.

TATIME:
You need to know the meaning and significance of SPECIAL NAMES given in the Bible as a means of attaining divine approval!
The name JESUS significantly stands for four motives
¤Counselling that's outstandingly effective! Counselor
¤Ability to do the impossible! Mighty God
¤Fatherly responsibility on children! Eternal Father
¤Peace permeating all worshipers! Prince of Peace
Isaiah 9:6
1~There must be effective counseling in their meetings to drop those who aren't willing to accept it behind for progress!
2~They must be able to do the impossibles like making all comply with Jesus' command for their salvation!
3~Their teachings must be evident in all the members so that all observers will know they have ONE principled FATHER!
4~There must be PEACE amongst worshiper to eradicate causes of hatred and wars like POLITICS and RACISM!
So if you find TWO,THREE or more people gathered in the name of Jesus, but they are not WORKING in line with this motives, please avoid their gathering[Psalms 1:1-2] Because their gathering is the handiwork of SATAN to mock Jesus' NAME! Matthew 7:21-23, 15:7-9, 2Timothy 3:5, Revelations 16:13-14

Now, is it only JWs that has these 4 qualities among different denominations all over the world?

Also, are you saying it's only POLITICS AND RACISM that generate hatred?

Barristter07:
Let me get you clearly
He wasn't a son before coming to earth ?

He is the word of God before entered creation as the Son of God.

johnydon22:
Something can be ordered and still not have specific parts with specific functions. A circle is an ordered pattern.

A circle can come as a result of conscious intent - design

And it also can come from a random process even chaotic ones if you will.

See the way you're just contradicting yourself.
Doesn't circle have a specific function?

A random event can produce circle, that's true! But how many times if repeated with the same event will produce a circle? That's the point.

I actually do not know. We are carbon based life, so we can't really conclusively assert what and how life could exist based on our experiences on earth.

Life could happen anywhere even on Jupiter.

Heck, Titan is one of the biggest candidates based on our own standards to possess life in this solar system and it's not even close to where the earth is.

Now imagine a universe with so many planets we don't even have the number to quantify it. You can't possibly account for the right conditiond necessary for life except for the type of life that you are used except you are saying that life can only possibly happen one way.

After you've established that you're a carbon based life, you went further to contradict yourself. You said life could happen even in Jupiter yet no scientists will ever made that statement.

So what stop other planets to have life?

Lol. The bigger pointet to conscious intent would be if the planets switched suddenly without apparent physical cause.

Physical cause is dead to a random event.

What mile/per would be wrong?

Anything less/high than what earth is now.

The time bacteria first evolved

What was the quantity of oxygen then and since when does the one we have now stabilized?

Why is the quantity does change again?

So, you reached a quantifiable variable of 0 for a probability problem but couldn't show the logical deductions (maths) that led to that conclusion?

That's not a good way to make a case of your argument being valid bro.

On what basis did I draw my first probability?

It's evident you didn't grab my point then...

This is my statement again!

"It shows these elements are following a lay down rules that didn't change from beginning because had it been they were not designed to be so, the probability that these things will continue to repeat their operations for million years (as some scientists believe) is Capital ZERO!"

johnydon22:
Something can be ordered and still not have specific parts with specific functions. A circle is an ordered pattern.

A circle can come as a result of conscious intent - design

And it also can come from a random process even chaotic ones if you will.

See the way you're just contradicting yourself.
Doesn't circle have a specific function?

A random event can produce circle, that's true! But how many times if repeated with the same event produces a circle? That's the point.

I actually do not know. We are carbon based life, so we can't really conclusively assert what and how life could exist based on our experiences on earth.

Life could happen anywhere even on Jupiter.

Heck, Titan is one of the biggest candidates based on our own standards to possess life in this solar system and it's not even close to where the earth is.

Now imagine a universe with so many planets we don't even have the number to quantify it. You can't possibly account for the right conditiond necessary for life except for the type of life that you are used except you are saying that life can only possibly happen one way.

After you've established that you're a carbon based life, you went further to contradict yourself. You said life could happen even in Jupiter yet no scientists will ever made that statement.

So what stop other planets to have life?

Lol. The bigger pointet to conscious intent would be if the planets switched suddenly without apparent physical cause.

Physical cause is dead to a random event.

What mile/per would be wrong?

Anything less/high than what earth is now.

The time bacteria first evolved

What was the quantity of oxygen then and since when does the one we have now stabilized?

Why is the quantity does change again?

So, you reached a quantifiable variable of 0 for a probability problem but couldn't show the logical deductions (maths) that led to that conclusion?

That's not a good way to make a case of your argument being valid bro.

On what basis did I draw my first probability?

It's evident you didn't grab my point then...

This is my statement again!

"It shows these elements are following a lay down rules that didn't change from beginning because had it been they were not designed to be so, the probability that these things will continue to repeat their operations for million years (as some scientists believe) is Capital ZERO!"

johnydon22:
Presence of specific functions for specific parts is another precursor that increases the likelihood of design.

Is still the same with orderliness. Don't forget those specific functions what set of rules each specific part must rely on.

Well, this reply address your "Right orbit" point. Not other life supporting factors.

If earth wasn't placed at the right orbit, it can't support life, true or false?

Besides, for planets not to switch their orbit is another design mind. Imagine, if Jupiter suddenly switch to earth orbit.

I said, what would be the right miles/per and what are the implications? Elaborate?

Earth is at the right mile/per hour now that's it could support life.

This point disputes your idea of oxygen being a design inherent to earth, it implies a default state of earth with the right amount of oxygen.

This refutation shows Oxygen quantity isn't default to earth hence is consonant to your idea.

It didn't!

Now let me ask you, if oxygen quantity isn't default, when last did it change?

Work me through this maths that led you to reach 0 as an answer

No math here, for something to be repeating itself million times shows it was designed that way.

No math to know that Manual transmission will continue in gear 1 till eternity if driver fails to switch while automatic transmission shows gear can be switched without driver's knowledge.

johnydon22:
Ok, so order = design? I'm not exactly sure order is the only precursor to design.

What other precursor do you think?

Lets vet these examples:

Ok

1. There are countless planets in the goldilock zone.

Goldilock zone only shows those planets are in habitable region if other factors that support life are met.

2. What woulf be the wrong miles/per

It will be disastrous

3. Uuuuhm, oxygen is actually alien to earth, it was a later addition by premodial life forms.

Whether it's alien or not, what we know is that today we have right quantity amount of oxygen and nitrogen in air mixture and any change from either of this can proof whether oxygen is truly alien to earth.

4. Ok

Yeah

So, work me towards how they made you arrive at your conclusion?

It shows these elements are following a lay down rules that didn't change from beginning because had it been they were not designed to be so, the probability that these things will continue to repeat their operations for million years (as some scientists believe) is Capital ZERO!

Janosky:
Are you so daft ?

With whose permission did an angel visit Gideon?Judges 6:11-22.
With whose permission did Jesus come to the earth ? John 7:16. 3:16.

When Jehovah sent an angel on any mission, that angel is carrying out Jehovah's will, an expressed order from God Almighty.

** Other wise, it's not Jehovah's will.

Jude 1:6***
"the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but ABANDONED their own homes..."

Angels are free moral agents too. They never sought Jehovah's permission to marry daughters of men. Jehovah FORBIDS it.
Those rebellious angels knows that.

They simply "ABANDONED" their duty post to commit iniquity.

If not because you're so dull, you wouldn't have responded so silly.

Your lack of simple comprehension always makes you comment quickly and it only exposes your stupidity.

Maximus69:
You need to STUDY the Bible with us before you can fully grasp all of these!

Grabbing lie bah

If you read of any angel introducing himself, it was granted by Jehovah otherwise they have NO right to speak with humans!

JWs and their double standard!
So the angels you believe have sex with human in Noah's day were given permission by Jehovah

But the rebellious ones who NO MORE knows nothing about God's arrangements are causing all they could before their destruction!

So there was a time when angels don't need permission from Jehovah but can act on their own will

Please there is no other names of angels mentioned unless if you go outside the Bible ,those arrogant angels wants to deal with people anyway and they've infected people with the spirit of ARROGANCE,that is why all those carrying such books can never be united as a global family like true Christians[JWs]!

And this is coming from someone who see another person carrying Bible OPENLY and claiming to be Born again Christian as eye service but going about NL shouting we do the work of Jehovah, we are the only one practicing what we preach e.t.c isn't eye service.

Hypocrite!

johnydon22:
The argument of design is one of the best arguments those who argue for the existence of God has in their arsenal, I myself consider the argument of design a very profound, logical and probable argument.

You see, but i have noticed one thing, those who usually use this argument seldom define for the merit of their argument how they recognize when something is designed? Or at least, things that makes it fair to assume that something is designed.

And on the other hand, those that argue against design, I'd say do not seem to also show that they understand what the fundamental premise that leads to the assumption of design.

This thread is to vet exactly what the proponents of the argument of design mean when they make such argument.

How do you recognize design?
What are the pointers that make you think it is logical to assume something was designed?

Something design means it follows orderliness.

For instance, a clock ticks every second and it must continue to tick always that's the designer's idea, if the action is repeated million times you'll be getting the same result.

Now if clock wasn't design, it means it can tick sometimes in second, or minute, even hour.

Let's compare this with earth that was designed to support life! "For the Lord is God, and he created the heavens and earth and put everything in place. He made the world to be lived in, not to be a place of empty chaos. “I am the Lord,” he says, “and there is no other."

1. Our earth is in its right orbit
2. Earth rotates at the right miles/per
3. Earth has right amount of oxygen & nitrogen in the air mixture.
4. Earth has right layers of atmosphere e.t.c