₦airaland Forum

Maximus69:
Let him go and correct their misconceptions before coming to tell me that i shouldn't claim born again in the Kingdom Hall.

Now show me where I said you shouldn't claim born again in the kingdom hall...if you can't show me! Be silent forever...

I asked you question which you couldn't even answer

As far as i know, i am a born again Christian and the only place to worship the same God with me is inside the Kingdom Hall!

If you're a born again Christian, do you agree that no born again Christian will ever replace Christ with anything else in the scripture?

This is the question none of you have ever provided simple answer to since I've been asking.

TATIME:
I only wonder what exactly is your point here, as you are saying one shouldn't claim to be born again because of what you're quoting from the Bible, when there are millions of complicating ideas on these issue of born again!
And you yourself said it's not compulsory they must come under one umbrella yet you're expecting them to agree on the same interpretation of Bible!

Idiot, did your own organization not claiming to be inspired by Holy Spirit

You're forming as if claiming to be inspired by Holy Spirit only peculiar with some denominations YET having conflict doctrines. When your own organization was guilty of it!

My point which you've been bitten about the bush is that...

1. If you claim to be born again Christian...fine that's your own cross
2. Born again Christian will never replace Christ with anything else in the scripture....if you do it simply means you're not a born again...am I lying
3. Allow Scripture to speak for itself...

TATIME:
Don't mind Jessicha, she is one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
I'm with you jare, Jesus has billions of isolated individuals each claiming Christian,they can worship anywhere they're please but they shouldn't say something that's contrary to what the Bible teaches, they should all speak in agreement and each should criticize the other if some ideas aren't corresponding wherever or whenever they meet, yet there is no compulsion belonging to ONE particular unique VISIBLE congregation!
The holy ghost is constantly speaking through you with 100% accuracy, more grease to your elbow Sir!

And Jws didn't claim Holy Spirit speak through them too, right Mr hypocrite?

I know you have lost your voice here, that's why you turn yourself to a kid.

Janosky:
Brain scrubbed Pharisee ,your last statement is proof you twisted Maximus69 reference to John 16:33, where he laid emphasis on tribulations that believers face in the world(,and pointed to the love and refreshing fellowship of believers in heb10:24-25) .
But you twisted it and claimed "you're trying to replace Christ with kingdom hall".

You're just fighting someone's battle that doesn't concern you, you hypocrite!

I will ask, were you the one who supposed to accuse me of twisting another person post when the person and I perfectly know the angle we're both arguing from Mr brainwashed JWs!

Do you even have brain to comprehend my post?

Janosky:
You're twisting his post ,Mr lying Pharisee and hypocrite, you've commented on many posts on many occasions on NL with out your opinion ( s) being solicited .
You have no right to dictate which thread or posts i should comment on.

Brainwashed person...that's not where I started quoting him. so go back again to see how you jumped in without understanding the subject matter.

I didn't say you shouldn't quote or comment but do it when you understand the subject matter.

Lastly, if I twisted his statement, he would've pointed that out before we gone far but we both know the angle we're speaking from, only for you to jump from nowhere and started foaming mouth.

Jessicha:
What's the issue pls ? Ion think he is wrong to apply it to congregation , 1Cor 12:27 " Now you are Christ's body, and each of you individually Is a member " is the congregation not in Christ as seen here ?

But you see something wrong if we apply the prerogative of Jehovah to Jesus, hypocrite!

TATIME:
You can't stipulate what a born again Christian must do, it's only God that can do that NOT you! As long as he claims to be a born again Christian.
So let God judge that Sir!

I didn't stipulate but scriptural truth, so the point still remains, born again Christian will never replace Christ with anything else, do you agree?

And you and your organization have been judging others, so are you now God?

TATIME:
He said he is born again!
Are you now the one judging who is and who is not a born again?

A born again Christian will never replace Christ with anything else...do you agree?

Janosky:
You wey born again dey twist his post you you don't understand the points Maximus69 has made.

And the person I twisted his post didn't know I did so but it has to be you to discover this

** True Christians would have tribulations in the world (John 16:33) but fellowship with his JW brothers is different & refreshing he cites Hebrew 10:24-25 which says fellowship with his JW brothers is "to incite to love and fine works" ..encouraging one another" .
(Where he learns practical ways to copy Christ like examples of love for God and fellow man(Luke 10:27) .

Acts2:41-46 says Christians had joyful fellowship with one another .

Jesus' command at John 10:34-35 called for close association b/w believers and meeting together is a great opportunity for JWs to fellowship together (bible study prayers and singing kingdom Melodies to praise Jehovah - (Eph5:15-20. 6:11-18) to practice love and fine works together.
Unity is strength "where two or three(& hundreds etc) are gathered in my name" .Matt18:20.
Some thing that Trinity worshipping Pharisees can never understand nor support.
Non denominational nonsense!

Brainwashed person!
Go back to where I quoted him to know you just jump into what doesn't concern you.

Maximus69:
Well, it doesn't matter whether you believe it or not.
As a born again child of God,i drank tea with the holy spirit in my bedroom this morning and HE told me to stick to the interpretation of JWs!

Then it means you're not a born again Christian because Holy Spirit can never instruct anyone to replace Christ with anything, as He shall not speak of His own!

Lastly, John 16:33 is all about Christ and not congregation.

Maximus69:
Must interpretations of the spirit in me be the same as yours?

Yes! Since the spirit is one!

My friend, i'm a born again Christian and since all the different religions claiming Christians and born again are having contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines, why must mine and yours correlates?

If you're born again, then a born again Christian won't replace Christ with Kingdom Hall

That's how you will know the spirit in you.

If God is not a author of confusion then why are there divers teachings all in the name of born again, yet you are only opposed to JWs?

Are you saying God is the author of confusion?

I've said this before and I'll say it again, I'm not opposing JWs but anyone who twisted and misinterpreted the scripture.

Well 'don't judge' is what Jesus said!

But you and your organization judge by saying others are not a Christian.

So my interpretation can totally contradict yours, NO problem as long as i am also a born again!

Yes! But no born again Christian will ever replace Christ with anything else.

Let scripture speaks for itself.

Always off points

Maximus69:
What about if i say 'i'm already a born again Christian'?

Then live as a born again Christian.

So what the spirit tells me about being a Christian is in my mind and according to your analogy it's not compulsory it must be the same with yours.

How does my analogy and your statement correlate?

I believe in the interpretation of the spirit in me just as you too are convinced of the spirit in you.

God is not the author of confusion as the spirit is one.

The content of John 6:33 which you've deviated from is that, Jesus Christ said "IN HIM..." not in the congregation.

A born again Christian will never replace Christ with anything or say what scripture didn't say.

And this doesn't mean you should start calling JWs to come and verify what i say since you said it shouldn't be a group thing!

How does this explain the fact that you replaced Jesus Christ in John 6:33 with Kingdom Hall?

This is my very key point.

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Maximus69:
So if you're truthfully convinced of what you're saying, then accept me as a Christian who need not associate with you or agree with your thinking.

Being a Christian doesn't mean associate with me or agree with my thinking. Go back to read your Bible on who is a Christian.

After all what you none denominationals believe is that everyone can practice his or her own Christianity independently of what any group teaches.

Wrong! You get born again first, then with the help of The Holy Spirit you can discern the spirit of truth from the spirit of lies.

I believe in group just like most people going to churches for worship, and if you're not opposed to them you need not oppose me for choosing to worship with my own fellow believers at the kingdom halls!

I didn't oppose you for fellowship with whosoever you think is a believer, my reason of quoting you is the wrong interpretation you gave to John 16:33

By trying to replace Jesus Christ with Kingdom Hall

Maximus69:
You only need patience and humility to understand what Jesus said!

And it takes brainwashing and lack of knowledge to accept twisting the scripture to your taste.

In Jesus simply means 'in the midst of other faithful Christians' Matthew 18:20 Because that is the only place where you can be COMFORTED and ENCOURAGE to keep your faith[Hebrew 10:24,25] outside you will always find none believers who will be laughing at you for what you are keeping that's of no value to them 'FAITH' Ephesians 2:2,5:6

Shut the Bleep up, Mr brainwashed JWs...

Jesus' statement pointed people to have absolute confident in Him...not this your hogwash talk...

So if there is no place where you can go to be comforted with the pure word of truth as in the midst of fellow believers, surely you're not a Christian! 2Corinthians 13:11

Still trying to replace Christ with Kingdom Hall...

Continue....

But the truth is, Jesus said "IN HIM..." which corroborate with "TRIBULATION" that is, when people are facing difficulty, persecution, trouble or challenge! as He(Jesus) has "OVERCOME THE WORLD"

So you believe, people pretending to be happy in your Hall means they find comfort and encouragement!

Maximus69:
That's the direct opposite of what Jesus said!
At John 16:33 Jesus said 'in the world you will have tribulation' definitely Christians can never find happiness in the midst of unbelievers but within fellow believers there is comfort! Hebrew 10:24,25 Romans 15:4
Certainly if you're truly a Christian you can't find bliss in the midst of those under Satan's control! 2Corinthians 4:3,4: 1John 2:15-17,5:19
So if you find happiness everywhere you go,that means you're also part of the world because they will be fond of you as their own! John 15:19,17:14-16
Sir there is great blunder in your reasoning!

Always misquoting the scripture

So do you find happiness in your working place which is not owned by JWs?

Do you find happiness in your school not owned by JWs?

Jesus statement was "In the world you will have tribulation IN ME YOU SHALL HAVE PEACE but be of a good cheer I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD"

Jesus said IN HIM not AMONG BELIEVERS....

Can you see how you're trying to replace Christ with Kingdom Hall now

The interpretation is very simple, either you become a NEPA man or your house will be at the 10th floor.

Maximus69:
Missed it several times in the past due to so many misinformation and misrepresentations all claiming Christians today but now that i've known the importance of this event nothing can stop me from attending, It's God's will!
Thanks Sir,God bless you!

Always finding excuses and someone to blame for your spiritual laziness.

Yet the so many misinformation and misrepresentations all claiming Christians today are still the very one who fixed the date of this memorial.

And to think someone like you didn't know the meaning of easter which even Muslims and Atheists do, says a lot about your spiritual knowledge.

What is so difficult for you to appreciate this thread and move on, like one of your brother did above?

Must you turn everything to blaming game?

johnydon22:
You don't have to drink, i will drink Heineken though.

No no, no argument, just a discussion

Are you in Abuja

Lukuluku69:
The Covenant between Abraham and God is that of you "Worship me Alone" That was the Covenant. You love me More than Anything and Everything. The Circumcision was only a Token of that and Abraham showed that Love More than Anything and everything by being ready to Sacrifice that thing he cherished Most: his only son at that Time.

And God instruction further was that as a Token of that Covenant, circumcise your Males. The day Abraham cut himself, he had only Ishmael but remember that he had Male servants and we are told that Genesis 17:23-27 KJV
[23] And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.
[24] And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
[25] And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
[26] In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son.
[27] And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.

Here we read that All Male with Abraham were circumcised and I asked you, did Abraham over cooked this instruction and you failed to answer.

Let's get it straight, was circumcision belong to everybody?

So, According to you, Abraham got it wrong but Paul addressing the Galatians got it right and declare Circumcision null and void for Gentiles yet Gentiles convert thru history have been doing this. Interesting I must say.

Abraham didn't got it wrong He followed the instruction of God

While Paul addressing the Gentile who were never part of that covenant....

Paul statement is wrong and negates what God ask Abraham to do and if Abraham erred, I am yet to see where it says so.

God asked Abraham to circumcise ALL HIS HOUSEHOLD (people who are already belong to ABRAHAM either by birth or acquisition)

This is different from GENTILE the Galatians Paul was addressing were never belong to Abraham descendants.

Or are they?

It is not only the Circumcision issue Paul used to gain converts, the issue of the Law too. He declared Gentiles free of the Law which according to him was a Curse the same Law Jesus said he came not to destroy.

Let's talk about this first before moving to another.

So, as far as I am concerned the one you call Apostle Paul not only erred, he should be avoided as well.

Who are you to give such order simply because you hate him

If you avoid my questions again I won't reply you...

You're deliberately boycotting this:
A challenge for you...
Kindly show us where God later included you as a GENTILE in the covenant of circumcision of Abraham in the Quran.

CANTICLES:
Caught.

Self consolation!

the root word Is the same.

Nice one!

If they translate as mighty Gods for those humans, silly people like you will still ask how many Gods we Christians have.

They didn't translate it as MIGHTY GOD for human so that silly people like JWs will know only Jehovah is a MIGHTY GOD but was translated as MIGHTY GOD for Jesus who is also a human!

Its clear the original thought when applied to humans has nothing to do with trinity

idiot don't divert our attention here...

If not because you're silly, shouldn't this tell you that for the root word to be translated as MIGHTY GOD for both Jehovah and Jesus means much more than what you people are claiming?

A son will be born [as Human ] and called.

Yet your silly hand could type "If they translate as mighty Gods for those humans,..." so isn't Jesus human again?

Lukuluku69:
The discussion really is about the inclusion of Abraham's Male household outside his own Descendants in the Circumcision rights. And I am not in any way confused as you think. I would have agree with you if the verse expressly state IN YOUR SEED rather than IN YOUR FLESH. Let us assume that it says IN YOUR FLESH,

Abraham's male household outside his main son are already belong to Abraham before God's commandment came but God made it clear that the covenant of circumcision will continue in Abraham FLESH ONLY.

If circumcision is for everyone, God would've instructed Abraham to preach circumcision to everyone around him.

In fact, it's was even the circumcision covenant that distinguishes Abraham from everyone so that Abraham seed will be Holy among other nations.

then I asked you, did Abraham over cooked the Commandment by including others outside of him and Ishmael? For verse 27 states: Genesis 17:27 KJV
[27] And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.

The commandment came from God and Abraham followed it.

Why is it that only Abraham God instructed to do circumcision if it should have been for everyone?

Of cos I quote from the Bible, so if you think I am versed that is your opinion, and if you raised a point, the onus is on you to make available verses that back that up.

Alright...

But you claimed you have right to do circumcision today because you're Abraham's descendant by FAITH

Yet you couldn't ask simple question, "if circumcision is for everybody neither Jews or Gentile, why must you belong to Abraham by FAITH before become part of the covenant?

Look at this your statement very well: "God's Covenant with Abraham was with him and his Descendants after him"

Now ask yourself, is everybody on earth an Abraham's descendants? No!

So for you to be part of that covenant, you need to belong to Abraham which you already acknowledged by claiming to be by FAITH.

As for Jews/House of Israel proselytizing Gentiles, do I need to recount the Stories of Jesus to you in this regard? Do I need to recount to you how the Seed of Israel are the Chosen People who all others must follow for Salvation is of the Jews?

Now let me ask you, why was God instructed Abraham to circumcise himself and his household?

This "This Commandement and Covenant" thing is nothing but Semantics. The Circumscion is only a token of the Convenant at least that is what the Bible says in Genesis 17:11 KJV
[11] And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

The circumcision is ONLY for Abraham's descendants NOT FOR EVERYONE.

So, Uncle I know what I am saying. For Paul to say otherwise, he made naught the Commandement of God to Abraham.

What Paul means in his statement is what you claimed (Abraham's descendant BY FAITH) yet fighting the blessed Apostle on top.

I'm still waiting for this my challenge:
A challenge for you...
Kindly show us where God later included you as a GENTILE in the covenant of circumcision of Abraham in the Quran.

CANTICLES:
@bold, at that point in Isreal history, how many saviours do they have ?

If you didn't see answer to your question in my post then check your eyes and brain very well

Yet you claimed to be versed in Bible in and out.

Lukuluku69:
Were you there when God said this Covenant was only for Abraham household Look at verse 27! It says ALL were cut! Does all means all?

Don't be confused sir...try to calm down and follow the discussion.

You're the very person who jumped to Bible to quote and from where you quoted this was said "[13] He that is born in thy house..."

You're wrong thou...the covenant wasn't for ABRAHAM household but "IN YOUR FLESH" that is Abraham physical descendants.

The commandment was ALL ABRAHAM MALE HOUSEHOLD should be circumcised.

Please quote what that God said to the Israelites about the Gentiles here please

You're versed in the Bible so do that yourself.

And if God told the Israelites not to have anything to do with the Gentiles, why are Jews proselytizing among the Gentiles?

What are they proselytizing?

We will get to the Quran in a bit

I'm waiting.... At least, this will help in the discussion

but please tell me that Abraham over cooked God instruction on the Cutting or at least show me a verse that

say so.

God instructed Abraham to circumcise his male household (this is the commandment) and made a covenant that circumcision will continue to be in Abraham FLESH ("in your flesh"..this is the covenant...which excluded outsider).

Don't mix them together.

Lukuluku69:
Genesis 17:11-14 KJV
[11] And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
[12] And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
[13] He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
[14] And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Please read verse 13. What does that mean? It simply means everyone! Abraham male kids, his servants, their Kids and to be doubly sure sir read:Genesis 17:26-27 KJV
[26] In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son. [27] And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.

Firstly, God was talking to Abraham after He has acquired everything

Secondly, what you failed to grab from the passages you're quoting is this "and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant."

The covenant is strictly for only PHYSICAL DESCENDANTS of Abraham...

Verse 26 says all were circumcised. Born in in the house, bought with money, even strangers in his house were all circumcised. So, Paul excluding the Galatians counted God's command for Naught.

The gentile were not part of physical descendants of Abraham...they were Gentile which God Himself instructed the Israelites not to have anything with.

So, how will God instruct the Israelites not to have anything do with the Gentile but yet still put them under the covenant of Abraham?

Do forget answer this question please...

I know English is a borrowed Language for me, but I find no other interpretation for what I just read. Circumcision was for EVERYONE who claim descent from Abraham thru Faith. Jews and Gentiles alike.

Go back to that same Genesis and read what God Himself told the Israelites about the Gentile and tell us why same God will still place them under Abraham covenant...

Finally, you didn't give us a quote from Quran where God later included Gentile under the covenant of Abraham.

Lukuluku69:
Would you care to explain that part again?

Shaloam!

Let me quickly refresh your memory on your own post for you to understand

He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
[14] And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

From the above from your own mouth, focus on @underlined...."and my covenant shall be in your FLESH" He means the physical descendants which never included STRANGER/GENTILE

Your next statement indicated that you grabbed Paul's message as being addressed to GENTILE/non physical descendants of Abraham yet you failed to acknowledge it.

As for Paul, he was addressing his Gentile converts. The ones he lied to. He knew this can't fly with the Jews, so he turned to the Gentiles who are largely ignorant of what God commands. He was of cos addressing the Galatians who are Gentiles(Non Jews)

So try to understand who Paul is addressing and why God never included the Gentile in His covenant first before you argue.

A challenge for you...
Kindly show us where God later included you as a GENTILE in the covenant of circumcise of Abraham in the Quran.

Lukuluku69:
Yes I am thru the Faith he has in the Creator of the Heavens and Earth and all that is in between.

You?

As expected....

Now @bolden part is what Apostle Paul addressed in those verses you misinterpreted...

Shalom!

Lukuluku69:
God's Covenant with Abraham was with him and his Descendants after him. Read again:

So are you a descendant of Abraham?

Janosky:
No mind that Janosky half baked lying Pharisee.
The man dey argue blindly always.

I'm still waiting for you to show me where in the scripture man and angels were called MIGHTY GOD...

Barristter07:

Are you so uninformed and ignorant not to know EL GIBBOA was applied to humans ?

Now using Hebrew to spew nonsense...

Show me where it was translated as MIGHTY GOD for human and angels in your translation...

Then why was it translated as MIGHTY GOD for Jehovah and Jesus Christ?

johnydon22:
I'm arriving Abuja tomorrow, basically relocating to Abuja from the East.

I'd like to meet people on this board who are also in Abuja and are interested to discuss or debate in person the topics we discuss here over drinks.

The more, the merrier!!!

I'm available but no drinking and arguing...

Deal?

ChristianNorth:
In Matthew 13:41, Jesus said that he would sent forth HIS angels.

This is not possible if he is not a God.

In Mark 2: 5-11 Jesus clearly demonstrated his power to forgive sins. Can you explain how he got that authority?

In John 14:13, Jesus asked us to pray in his name and he would do it. Not his father would it.

In 1 Cor 1:24 Jesus is called the power of God.

How do you explain all these?

In your New World Translation, Colossian 2:9 states
"because it is in him that ALL the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily."

My emphasis is on the "ALL the fullness of divine quality" can you explain what that means?

Titus 2:13 "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,"

How do you explain this away?

This one is from Peter (2 Pet 1:1) "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and bapostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

I am waiting for your explanations.

They can't explain those verses rather you will see how they'll twist it...to say what scripture didn't say.

That Titus and 2 Peter have been corrupted by their NWT,