₦airaland Forum

frank317:
Lol...that's the problem, I don't know any certain thing to do to see or hear from the creator since I have never had any contact with him.

Your problem is the bolded part, you don't know or you don't want to follow the creator's process?

The creator should know better, therefore if he wants me to see him... I definitely will see or hear from him. For now I have seen or heard from no creator and there is nothing I can do about it.

The point is did you ever follow the process the creator has laid down for you to see and hear from him?

frank317:
What process? Abegoo, no creator gave me any process. Sorry, didn't I just tell you I have no contact with any creator?

But you're the one who said until you see and hear from this creator that you will believe, then I asked if you want to see and hear from this creator, won't you do some certain things?

frank317:
How do I know? since I have no direct contact with the creator.

Then do you think you can have a direct contact with the Creator without passing through any process?

frank317:
Lol... You described what my 'unknown person typing on Nairaland' can do before you reach me only to end up saying they are the process YOU must follow before you can see or hear from me. Stop contradicting yourself to prove a point.

Now if I don't make necessary and clearly defined effort for you to reach me... Then you have the right say I don't exist.

However... Do you realize we are talking about our creator? To me, if there is a creator.. I fantomize him to be way way way way way beyond all these processes.

The simple question is, is there anything to do to have direct contact with this creator if the creator truly exists?

aaronson:
Need I remind you intelligent people never admit being intelligent but arise to the occasion when need be then leaves when the ovation is the loudest!!!

So as you've reminded me then let this occasion arises so that you can get the loudest ovation here and stop attack a straw man.

manichukk56:
if you agree with the creation story of the bible, then it is me who laughs at your ignorance... The bible in itself is a claim not EVIDENCE.. And also personal delusions are not enough proof for the existence of a deity
And you have to tell me why it has to be your God that creates not the hindus, muslim etc

You keep exposing your ignorance...I can't just reply all your post because of what you quickly display here

Who talks about Genesis here?

This is your unintelligent point I replied to "...why people always want a god/deity to create ..." and my reply is so concise "Christianity which I belong to doesn't just want God to create to cause misunderstand between people about our universe RATHER God the Creator has revealed Himself to many people to let them know that He exists and He's the creator of all things."

Please can you tell me how your respond addressed my post?

aaronson:
You become intelligent to turn atheist and not becoming an atheist to get intelligent.....That's more credible and vital reason you can't win an argument over an atheist like me,Naaaahhh not even your pastor.

So can you show us small of your intelligence here by bringing a topic you think no one could win over you?

frank317:
The only way I can believe in God is to see him or hear from him directly. If not, nothing can convince me.

I only know you exist on Nairaland through your posts.

How am I sure you're the one who actually wrote those words?

Now for me to see and hear from you directly, your GHOST (your unknown person typing word on NL) must give me a direction either phone number or address of resident or someone who knows you better can do the work. All these are just the process I MUST FOLLOW before I could see and hear from you

Now do you think if you want to see and hear from God you won't pass through any process?

billadrsbook:
For Turks and Caicos Visa Exempt Counntries.... Nigeria is included. Visit link below

https://www.visittci.com/getting-here/passports-and-visas

Are you currently residing in this place?
If Yes! how is life there?

billadrsbook:
Barbados is no go area for Nigerians. Once you get to Barbados point of entry. They will deport you back to Nigeria.
They hate Nigerians due to Ebola issue
99 Nigerians are currently studying in Barbados, accomodation is very bad, they are even planning to deport them back to Nigeria

What about now that the case has died down?

safarigirl:
o can't receive any e-mail on that address..you can e-mail me via the address on my profile page. Look forward to it

Danke schon

safarigirl:
na by auditorium? Chai!

Just use google

Sorry for bursting into this, did you see my PM?

dodoniyi:
Lagos – Pastor Joe Femi-Dagunro, a senior pastor with the Grace and Glory Chapel, Lagos, on Sunday said that Christian faithful should not indulge in wasteful spending by taking trips to Jerusalem.
The cleric made the remark during an interview in Lagos during the church’ inaugural Thanksgiving Service in Ikeja.
Femi Dagunro said that as much as people could travel to see other climes, they should not attach a trip to Jerusalem as a compulsory task in the practise of Christianity.
He said that such money could be put to more productive use by building industrial and Information Technology parks for the development of the Nigerian youths.
“There is no point for us not to say the truth, if we believe in it. There is nowhere that it is written in the Bible that Christians must visit Jerusalem.
“Jesus did not say: ‘You must visit my tomb.”
“We are wasting money on such trips and that money could be used to support the youth to build industrial parks, or to develop IT parks.
“So, church leaders have a role to speak the truth and advise government on how it can do this,” the cleric said.
He also advised that churches should begin to train their members on skill acquisition, to improve themselves so as to be able to serve the church better and also get opportunities to make better living.
“It is high time that Churches began, as they schedule week days for prayer meetings, to dedicate one day for skill acquisition.
“They can train the people they use in the church, or mentor them, in order to develop the people for their good as well.”
Femi-Dagunro also urged churches to embark on more humanitarian projects such as building cottage hospitals, in addition to building universities.(NAN)

SOURCE: http://www.vanguardngr.com/2015/01/jesus-christ-not-task-christians-visiting-jerusalem-says-cleric/

Then did Christian ever claim it's a compulsory task before?

manichukk56:
True, what i can't wrap my head around is [size=14pt]why people always want a god/deity to create[/size] ... What of if sub_quantum fluactuations was what caused our universe to appear

@bolded-I can't stop laughing at your ignorance.

Can any man want God to create?
Christianity which I belong to doesn't just want God to create to cause misunderstand between people about our universe RATHER God the Creator has revealed Himself to many people to let them know that He exists and He's the creator of all things.

I so much love this verse...
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:22 KJV

safarigirl:
danke

Bitte schon

safarigirl:
lol....nauwelijks

That's good...
guten tag!

safarigirl:
Danke

Sprenchen sie German?

Actually, you never attempt any of the questions I asked you but just let me just your post.

ayoku777:
I'm getting seriously tired of typing.

Likewise me too

To beget and to pro-create are the same thing. If it is the "-create" in "pro-create" that is the issue, you can replace it with beget. Unless you don't agree Jesus is also begotten.

the question I asked here is in what way was Jesus BEGOTTEN is it through creation or what?

Mind you what God beget IS ALSO GOD (the same nature) just as man beget man (the same nature).

The purpose of asking you those questions is to know how you understand the word BEGOTTEN

Are you guys trying to say there is no objectivity in spiritual matters?

How come Jesus used everyday events and analogy to explain the kingdom of God?

What we call parables are everyday analogies describing and explaining the kingdom.

Ofcourse I know you need the Holy Spirit to understand scripture, but sound doctrine is not haywire, such that it lacks every bit of objectivity.

Paul used family to explain christ and the church, sowing and reaping to explain flesh and death etc.

There is objective analogy in scripture.

Waving away of every analogy in the pretext that it is human, so "not applicable" in explaining God is not a sound or intelligent way to discuss.

Please can you humbly tell me the part of my post you misunderstood that warrant all these nonparallel post with the questions I asked you?

You asked what kind of a God Jesus is?

Well the kind of a God that has a God.

Do you believe Jesus has a God? Do you believe the Father is the God of Jesus?

So this God that has a God, is it of the same nature with His God? If you clear yourself on the word BEGOTTEN then I'll know what to say next.

When Jesus entered TIME and SPACE that is when He BECAME part of creation the Father becomes His God.


Let me say this again, The Deity of Jesus wasn't about His life on earth (WHEN HE BECAME PART OF CREATION) but His existence before His birth because He was also 100% human in His 33 years of life on earth and God is the God over every creations

CANTICLES:
1) Can u prove the above as true ?, then show us where captivator used the word " Firstcreated" ?? If u cant, it will be declared as an outright lie .

This is what I wrote "...way you misapply the word FIRSTBORN by ALWAYS CHANGING it to FIRSTCREATED"
NOTICE the underlined word...
I was talking about THE MEANING he's giving to the word FIRSTBORN which also placed Jesus as FIRSTCREATED, or is Jesus not the FIRSTCREATED according to JW?

Don't be too forwarded next time without getting how someone CAREFULLY constructs statement.

2) am awaiting ur response to ayoku777's question: Do u agree that Jesus have a God ? If u say " YES" , then all argument will end since you now belive Jesus himself has a Supreme God )

So it's only ayoku777's question you can see but you couldn't see my questions he didn't attempt at all

But If you said " NO" , answer this: why is reference made to " The GOD OF Jesus Christ" Ephesian 1:17 if he doesnt have a God?

If you read my previous post you will see where I answer his question.

RikoduoSennin:
I am saying Jesus is a Mighty God who has his own personal God- Almighty God whom he answers to.(Revelation 1:6)

And Jesus is also Almighty God (Revelation 1:

Try replacing the word beginning from Genesis 1:1 and see its mean changed. Eg "In the origin/source God created the heavens and the earth".

Yes it will change but does it change when use with Revelation 3:14? it doesn't! because both Genesis and Revelation are unparalleled statement.

Translators saw the words origin/ source and still choose beginning. There is a reason for that.

Really!!! You'll see how you violated your own statement below.

The Father is the beginning of WHAT?

Are you asking me? I asked you question and you're asking me a gain

Jesus is "the beginning of God's creation" is not just a phrase, Revelation 3:14 mentions Jesus' titles. Can we apply this title to the Father?

The question you still fail to answer is what does the beginning mean?

So Firstborn does not have it regular meaning because it was used on Jesus eh?

Who says so?
Now you said in the above that the translator must have a reason of using the word THE BEGINNING instead of ORIGIN or SOURCE, THEN DID YOU KNOW THAT PAUL MUST HAVE A REASON OF USING THE WORD FIRSTBORN INTSEAD OF FIRSTCREATED?

Pre-eminence (Abj): better than all others, outstanding. Is Jesus better than the Father? 1 corithians 15:27 exempted the Father from all that.

Then who talks about the Father here?

The bible never specify which whether it was human life or heavenly life that was GRANTED to JESUS, so it goes to show that it was both- since it compares Jehovah's and Jesus life ( one is self existent while the other was GRANTED)

Does the word granted mean another thing?

To say the Bible never specifies it is a pure false that means you just took that verse out of its context by failing to observe the preceding & next verse. Jesus didn't stop at given life also went on to say authority.

Please quote me where I said the above. To set matter straight, Isaiah mentions Jehovah, and Jesus came in his Father's name.

Answered!

Is the representative equal in rank to the president or can he be the same as the president?

Then who claimed this?

Coming in the president name does not mean when he goes back to the president he still has that same authority, does it?

But the Bible says Jesus still have the same authority.

Now the bold section is your opinion, I don't think that is the point of God being called "invisible" or is there another meaning of that word?

John 1:18 "No one has EVER seen God..."

John 5:37 "...His voice you have not heard, his form you have NEVER Seen"

John 6:46 "Not that any man has seen the Father except him who is from Him"

Why is that because, no human has ascended to the Heaven

1 timothy 1:17 " To the king of ages, IMMORTAL, INVISIBLE, the ONLY GOD,...."

Compare Hebrew 11:27 "...who is invisible"

Can one see an invisible thing?

You're attacking a strawman here, Angels are INVISIBLE but do people ever see Angels before? The onus is on you and I know that you will quickly reject this when Colossians 1:16 says "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible...,"

Psalm 83:18 says otherwise "Let them Know that you ALONE whose name is Jehovah is the Most high over all the earth"- Jesus/Yehoshua is a derivative of Yahweh/Jehovah not the other way around.

Was Psalms taking about the Godhead or the Father?

If Jesus is Yahweh in the Flesh, does that not imply that they are THE SAME?

Yahweh is name for the Godhead in the OT. The Father and the Son are not the same thing.

It was a Resurrected [size=14pt]Jesus who has all the authority given back to him[/size] that said he is "Going to his God" @ John 20:17

@bolded-According to you The authority was given BACK TO HIM which means He possesses the AUTHORITY BEFORE.

After stephen saw Jesus in Heaven, Jesus later said the words recorded @ Revelation 3:2,12. [size=14pt]So human Jesus did not have the fullness of the Godhead dwelling in him,[/size]

Is it Stephen who saw Jesus when the word of Revelation 3:2,12 made or John? Because I don't know you arrived at Stephen and Revelation

is that it? He dropped his God title and reclaim it when? When did Jesus become a God back again?

Read Phil 2:6, He is still God but with additional nature (FLESH)

Ahmed is a General, Abacha is a General and Head of State. Are they equal in rank?

Then who says so?

Jesus is a Mighty God, Jehovah is both a Mighty and Almighty God.

And Jesus is also both Mighty and Almighty God.

I asked because of the implication that if Jesus have fellows who are not Jehovah nor Holy Spirit- it says a lot about what kind of God he is?

It should be an implication on your side not mine because the purpose you asked that question is to buttress Hebrew 1:9.

See the bold section, You replied my question by giving me an assignment. How can I answer a question I asked which is not a rhetorical question?

So that you can see how ridicule your question is because I'm wondering how Jesus how is the FIRSTBORN of all creation could have a fellow?

A mystery, since the bible is silence on this issue, I don't wish to say what I am not sure of.

So you believe in mystery and when some Trinitarians say TRINITY is a mystery you'll reject it.
I know you try to play smart here because if you say heaven was before Jesus then Jesus can't be FIRSTBORN of all creation and if Jesus comes before heaven it leads us to where did He stay? Surely He must have lived with the Father in eternity before heaven was created and ONLY GOD CAN LIVE IN ETERNITY which made Jesus far far different from other God you're trying to equate with Him.

As per Jesus Fellows- it is not important to the topic, so we can drop it.

No I can't because how FIRSTBORN of all creation have a fellows?

My apologise, I thought the purpose of you quoting Isaiah 40:3 was to link Jehovah who was mentioned there has the one who came in the FLESH as Jesus christ. Am I wrong?

Yes I mean Yahweh who spoke in Isaiah 40:3 was the one we see in the FLESH you can only get confused when you think Yahweh is ONLY the Father.

Please don't define the word HEIR a different way.

Did I?

You said Jesus created everything,

Are you denying it?

how can he be a HEIR to inherit everything again if everything belongs to him.

How can God adopt us as a children when His the one who created us?

Yes, it is a question. Why would humans be called Heirs to God and fellow/co-heirs with Christ? If Jesus were Almighty God, humans would have been only his heirs.

The question I asked you boycott it, who made you fellow/co-heir with Christ?

@the bold section, Jesus never said he is God, so Why would you say
he is Almighty God? Jesus never claimed to be Almighty God. He was sent by a superior God.

I bet it you didn't understand my point, do you?

Finally we are in agreement, The God who sent Jesus is also Jesus' God.

Agree with you! mba, I know you misunderstood that statement too.

I believe you mean A MIGHTY God.

if Jesus is a Mighty God, is He still in the same category of other people called God (according to you) because you've already claimed He was not the only one called God in the Bible.

ayoku777:
No one said Jesus was created, Jesus was pro-created (begotten) of the Father. And He created ALL things.

How does the Father procreate Jesus Christ? is it through creation or what?
Your answer here will show how you really understand what you're saying.

Nawa o. Did I ever say Jesus is not God?

I said Jesus is God, and the Father is also is God.

The Father is eternal and uncreated(No beginning), do you believe Jesus as God also possesses this attributes? If No! what do you think Apostle John was emphasising when he said Jesus is God?

Please explain to me how you can be equal with the person you call YOUR GOD. Or that is a mystery too?

I believe you're not talking about equality in position here? Because is like you agree with equality in NATURE in one of your previous post.

How can YOUR GOD be your equal? How can God have a God and yet they are the same and are equal.

Leme guess, its a mystery.

As above

Jesus is God, but He has a God because He is not the Mosthigh God. The person you call your God is not your equal. And no amount of "it is a mystery" can make it so.

I'll still like to know WHAT TYPE OF GOD you believe Jesus is, is it the same with how JW view Him?

This is the kind of subjective interpretation of scriptures that makes unbelievers laugh at us. When we can't be objective with interpretation

The underlined almost cracks my ribs, do you know that your own explanation is even awkward more than the people you're referring to?

CAPTIVATOR:
I just smiled ..... Honestly speaking, You dont need all this emotional outburst

Your problem still remains the same and it is only God who can deliver you from it.

Jesus was born into existence as the direct Creation of the FATHER , Making Him the ' FIRST-BORN OF All CREATION" by the Invisible God, The FATHER Col 1:15, Proverb 8:22,30 >Matthew 11:19)!
This is why Jesus is reffered to as the " Son of God" , the same way Created angels are also called " son of God" Job 38:4-7 And the first human creature is also refered to as the " Son Of God" Luk 3:38

NOTE: THE title " Son Of God" is never applied to the Father, The FATHER Was Never Created! ( Psalm 90:2)

This is the question I asked you

Emusan: Again, what I demanded of you is Explain how Jesus was BORN INTO EXISTENCE without YOU CHANGING the word FIRSTBORN into FIRSTCREATED?

but when you wanted to quote me you only quoted the part that suits you

CAPTIVATOR:
Again, what I demanded of you is Explain how Jesus was BORN INTO EXISTENCE.

And also you couldn't deal with my other question than to boycott it totally

Emusan: If Jesus is FIRSTBORN of ALL CREATION, were the rest of the CREATION also BORN?

Because you know there's no way for you to deal with the questions, you have to keep repeating all what you've been programmed with.

Mind you I only want to correct your shallow knowledge and the way you misapply the word FIRSTBORN by ALWAYS CHANGING it to FIRSTCREATED.

DO YOU NOW BELIEVE THAT JESUS HAVE A SUPERIOR GOD??

The point is FIRSTBORN...and after I've warned you not to deviate from the main point you can still displaying it again.

Please and please always with your brain whenever you want to reply my post, Ok!

CAPTIVATOR:
Remember, Jesus Is NOT the Almighty God ( John 20:17)

Did my post say anything about Jesus being the Almighty God or not?
I simply asked, can God be created? which I didn't see any correlation between the question I asked and your reply.

Hypocrisy in action ............
FIRST [BORN/b] OF ALL CREATION ! NOTE: FIRST /BORN/ OF CREATION Col 1:15.

Again, what I demanded of you is [b]Explain how Jesus was BORN INTO EXISTENCE without YOU CHANGING the word FIRSTBORN into FIRSTCREATED?

YES! First BORN OF CREATION ( born of creation, a part of creation) Col 1:15

If Jesus is FIRSTBORN of ALL CREATION, were the rest of the CREATION also BORN?

First BORN from the dead ( part of the dead before his ressurection)

You agreed is not the FIRST to die, right?

He Was part of the dead NOT exclusive of the word "dead" ! But firstborn because he was the first to be raised to Immortality , UNLIKE others who died again, Jesus wont die anymore! But remember he was not exclusive from the dead , so dont play games removing him from" CREATION" Col 1:15

Who is playing game?

So those people who resurrected immediately Jesus gave up the ghost (Matt 27:52) were still mortal, right?
Abraham, Moses e.t.c were also mortal in heaven, right?

#smiles# Am not saying he is not supreme
, but the fact remains that he was before ressurection part of the "dead" ! Col 1:18

Does this statement have any meaning to you?

FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION

You're still confusing yourself with the word FIRSTBORN.

RikoduoSennin:
Lying? Is that what this is about? ....hehehe....

Did you see the polite way I asked you to quote me where I said so because I knew it had to be a misunderstanding not a QUARREL. (NB: I run from quarrels- I believe we are not quarrels)

[size=14pt]Emusan, I must admit I was wrong when I said, " The Lord in that account was not Jehovah" in page 1 of this discussion.[/size] I was too hasty. You did not state the Scripture you quoted from and [size=14pt]I responded without researching where you quoted from.[/size]

I did not lie intentionally (My intention was not to deceive) like you claim. After you quoted that scripture of Isaiah 40:3, Note my comments on it: I affirmed that it was God's name Jehovah that was mentioned and using Malachi 3:1 and Jesus' comments that HE CAME IN HIS FATHERS NAME.

If I did lie about the first instance intentionally, my posts in page 2 and 3 would contradict that, meaning something is of- two statements can't be right.

To please your enhanced ego, I wish to state that my first statement " The Lord in that account is not Jehovah" is WRONG. (A problem resulting from removal of God's name from the KJV/NKJV and my personal conviction that every mention of the word LORD in the bible does not necessary mean Jehovah)

I didn't expect you to prolong this particular post until you type more than 200 characters.

What I needed from you is the bolded part, thank you.

[size=14pt]Before I reply your post I want you to openly apologize for this lie if not I won't reply your post.[/size]

RikoduoSennin:
Please quote me where I said the above; (and the above you're referring to is)

Emusan: "You're very funny, when you erroneously said THE Lord in Isaiah 40:3 is not YAHWEH but just ordinary Lord like Jesus or any human Lord."

To set matter straight, Isaiah mentions Jehovah, and Jesus came in his Father's name.

Your point that I replied to was

RikoduoSennin: "No where the Father sent Himself in the scripture

then I replied

Emusan: [size=14pt]When you failed to read your Bible,[/size] "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, [size=14pt]prepare ye the way of the LORD(Yahweh), make straight in the desert a highway for our God(Yahweh)." NWT[/size] Who fulfilled this prophecy? John the Baptist & Jesus! Did God send Himself?

AND YOUR REPLY TO MY POST WAS

RikoduoSennin: [size=14pt]The "Lord" in that account is not Yahweh. Its not everywhere in the bible we have Lord/God to mean Yahweh.[/size] You can't superimpose that into the original text ( See what KJV did by removing God's true name from the bible because of superstition? Some can't identify where refer to God and where refer to Jesus eg My Lord said to My Lord). Jesus bears the title Lord does not make him Yahweh, Abraham was called Lord too.

NOTICE my first statement WHEN YOU FAILED TO READ YOUR BIBLE

Do you agree that you're lying?

CAPTIVATOR:
LISTEN
Its good you recognize the fact that the Father was never created !! What about Jesus his son ??

How can God be created?

Col 1:15 Jesus is " the FIRST - BORN of ALL CREATION" !!! This clearly reveal that OF ALL CREATION THAT CAME INTO EXISTENCE, [size=14pt]JESUS IS THE FIRST TO BE BORN INTO EXISTENCE.![/size]

Actually, I've addressed this point but for the purpose of the bolded part I'll ask you this question.

Explain how Jesus was BORN INTO EXISTENCE without YOU CHANGING the word FIRSTBORN into FIRSTCREATED?
Beside FIRSTBORN and FIRSTCREATED do they mean the same thin?

.. The trinity lie says " pre eminence over" ! This never appeared in that scripture!

I can see you lack basic English the verse says "...so that he might become the one who is first in all things;" NWT If Jesus is first IN all things is there anything above Him again and what is the mean of OVER? Remember I didn't include the Father in all things before you misquote me.

Another lie is " firstborn over all creation" NO! " FIRST-BORN OF CREATION".

Answer my first question above for this question.

Col 1:18 Jesus is the FIRSTBORN from the dead" !! [size=14pt]He was part of d dead, but first to be raised,[/size]

Many people died before Jesus and resurrect before Him, so why will Apostle Paul said Jesus is the FIRSTBORN among the dead if the word FIRSTBORN here doesn't mean pre-eminence/supremacy?

its a big LIE to say " firstborn over the dead" or "pre eminen

Are you telling me that Jesus is not SUPREME over the dead?
I guess you don't even know the meaning of pre-eminence, do you?


NOTE: Don't jump up and down by quoting many Bible references in other to make this point overstress, what we are discussing now is FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION stick to it.

ayoku777:
We need to understand scriptural language and expressions. This is not a problem or question of english per se.

"All things" doesn't include the Father.

When the bible says;

1Cor 15v27 -For He hath put ALL THINGS UNDER HIS FEET.

Does that "ALL THINGS" include the Father? Has the Father been put under the feet of Christ? Ofcourse NOT! "ALL THINGS" exclude the Father.

It points that out in the second part of the verse;

1Cor 15v27 -...But when He saith, all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is EXCEPTED, which did put all things under Him

So when the Bible says;

John 1v3 -ALL THINGS were made by Him(Jesus);

It is obvious that, the "all things" excludes the Father that brought Him forth. That Jesus made "all things" doesn't mean He is the Father or that otherwise He made the Father too. That He made all things doesn't mean He wasn't begotten as well.

NO! "All things" does not include the Father. The Father brought forth (or procreated) the Son and the Son made ALL THINGS.

I think RikoduoSennin has the other points covered.

Sir, I think you're too fast forward instead of taking time to digest my post.

I didn't say the Father was included in ALL THINGS...what I mean by ALL THINGS is that EVERYTHING THAT CAME INTO EXISTENCE AT CREATION it is evident that The Father was never created, so the reason why I quoted John 1:3 is to show people that Jesus was never part of creation instead the Bible placed Him outside the creation.

RikoduoSennin:
Well, Jesus is a created being not according to me but the Scriptures.

IF Jesus is both God and Creator of all things why would he Say "The words of the 'Amen', the Faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation" - Revelation 3:14 NKJV.

Why would Paul right "He is the IMAGE of 'the INVICIBLE GOD, THE FIRST-BORN OF ALL CREATION" -Colossians 1:15 NKJV

Are you saying Jesus is not God and the creator?
The bone of the contention is that Jesus is not part of creation which is what John 1:3 trying to explain.

As for Revelation 3:14, the word rendered "THE BEGINNING" was translated from the Greek word "ARCHE" that also means source/origin/principality/rule e.t.c so taking it out of context is baseless. Please the Father called Himself THE BEGINNING(arche)...does it mean the father has a beginning too? If we substitute THE BEGINNING with either ORIGIN or SOURCE then you will understand the content of that verse.

As for colo 1:15 Paul didn't mean Jesus was the FIRSTCREATED but what he means by FIRSTBORN is pre-eminence/supremacy which he stresses out in verse 18 "...that in all things he might have the preeminence."
The key question one can ask here is, if Jesus was created FIRST why must He have THE PREEMINENCE once He is already in the position of pre-eminence?

The simple answer is, Jesus is never part of creation but as He entered time and space (creation) He must take the position because He brought creation into being.

This two scripture explains what is included in EVERYTHING being created through Jesus. It means Jesus created everything apart from himself, so he was not self existent like the Father (invisible God) who granted him life by creation- John
5:26- Read it and you will see, the Son would not, can not exist without the Father.

NO! What that verse is making clear is that Jesus never be part of creation, He's the one who started creation.
You miss apply that John 5:26, if you read it carefully you will know that the life the Father granted The Son was His Humanity LIFE "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. because JESUS HIMSELF IS EVERLASTING LIFE, how can EVERLASTING LIFE BE CREATED?

So you mean Jesus did NOT 'DIE' FOR YOUR SIN AGAIN? That is really interesting to know.

Where did I say so?

At first glance, one would thing- you got me, but you could not be more wrong. Here is me using the NKJV to explain that Scripture with other Scriptures.

You're very funny, when you erroneously said THE Lord in Isaiah 40:3 is not YAHWEH but just ordinary Lord like Jesus or any human Lord
Come with another lie.

Please see this Parallel scripture - Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I send my messenger to prepare the way before ME, and the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to HIS TEMPLE, the messenger of the covenant in whom YOU delight, behold, HE IS COMING SAYS THE LORD OF HOSTS

What did you get from tthe bolded section? Is the Lord of Hosts referring to himself in the third person or mentioning coming of another person who is "THE MESSENGER of the covenant".

If you know the IMPLICATION of this passage on your claim you wouldn't have quoted it.
Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I send my messenger to prepare the way before ME...,
Please the I and ME in that passage is it the Father that is talking or The MESSENGER who is coming?

What I understand from that verse is that a messenger will PREPARE A WAY FOR THE SPEAKER beside please which Lord are people seeking for, THAT IS COMING TO HIS TEMPLE, is it not YAHWEH or another Lord?

Jesus himself answers, " I have come in MY FATHERS NAME (obviously Jehovah I presume), and you did not receive me; IF ANOTHER COMES IN HIS OWN NAME HIM YOU WILL RECEIVE"

If Jesus came in THE NAME OF THE FATHER (YAHWEH) so if I call Him YAHWEH did I make a mistake?
Can you address a president representative his/her name and not your excellency Mr. President?

Jesus did not come in his behalf or his own Name. When Angels come in Jehovah's behalf, they are called God (capital G) in the bible, that is why people like Abraham, Moses spoke to God face to face, yet NONE has seen Almighty God (John 1:18)

Another lie, NONE has seen God in TOTALITY OF HIS GLORY not that people have not seen God, the purpose of John 1:18 is "...the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John the Baptist didn't mean seen God any how BUT FULLY KNOW and DECLEAR HIM TO PEOPLE except JESUS who is also God.

I have, but you need to tell me our how can Jesus be the Same person as his own God LOGICALLY.

Jesus is not The Father, BUT YAHWEH in FLESH the name YAHWEH is hold all over the GODHEAD.

No, you haven't address the Issue: How come Jesus has a God he answers to? If you had, we won't be dragging this discussion to page 3.

The EVERLASTING LIFE, The WORD became FLESH which is called incarnation, so in His humanity He has a God because He has already surrendered everything to His Father "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" Phili 2:7 so the Father became His God that's why Jesus need to be exalted again.
Mind Jesus didn't come to Earth as God.

But I have been addressing you questions while you have been ignoring mine. Its just that, you have not been getting the answers you were expecting to hear that's all.

How many of your question have I avoided? I always analyse your post point by point

No, Jesus is just not an ordinary God, he is a MIGHTY GOD but he is not the Almighty God- that right alone is reserved for Jesus and our God (John 20:17)

Do you also realise that The Father is also MIGHTY GOD?

I have read the Entire bible 4 times in 4 years. This will be my 5th time(3 chapters everyday=entire bible in a year). So don't conclude so fast.

Then why are you asking who are the fellow of Jesus Christ?

Here is a quiz from Hebrew 1:1-3:

And you will be claiming that you always answer my question, you asked question "WHO ARE JESUS FELLOWS" and I gave you assignment you come back with more question when you haven't answered your own question.

you also avoid this question my question totally, you said and I quote "Jesus did NOT create the literal Heavens (abode of The Father)," and I asked "Then did this abode of the Father come before Jesus or Jesus comes before this abode?

Again who are Jesus' fellow according to you?

1) Why would Almighty God call himself "A Father" and the same time "A Son"?

Then who say The Father and The Son are the same thing?

2) Why would The Father make the son his HEIR if they are equal or the same.

I strike "the same" because no TRINITARIAN ever say so, The Son became heir of all things because all things were created for Him.

Read Hebrew 10:5-9 well. Especially verse 7
Romans 8:16, 17 "It is the spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit THAT WE ARE CHILDREN OF GOD and If children then HEIRS, HEIRS OF GOD and FELLOW HEIRS WITH CHRIST provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him" 2 peter 1:4 says PARTAKE OF THE DIVINE NATURE.

We are sons of God hence heirs of God, Why are then not heirs of Christ rather we are 'Fellow/co-heirs with christ? Because of being adopted as Sons to God not adopted as a God.

And you call this a question
Imaging you're co-heir with Christ or son of God or Child of God, who make you or allow you to be co-heir/son of God/child of God?
Do you even know the purpose of Christ on Earth?

Explain John 5:44 "How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that COMES FROM THE 'ONLY' GOD", and John 8:44 " If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is MY FATHER WHO GLORIFIES ME, OF WHOM YOU SAY THAT HE IS YOUR GOD"

Jesus himself acknowledged that the Jews claim to worship not himself BUT HIS FATHER, THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

I can't stop laughing whenever people like you make such statement.
No Christian will ever deny that Jesus was on earth pointing people to know God.
Jesus never said He is God they say He blasphemy what if He now says I am God what would they do?

The problem people like you is having is that, you don't know that Jesus didn't come to earth to prove to people that He is God RATHER to let people know that the same God who has been spoken to them right from the day of their fathers has sent Him.

Don't get it twisted when I said GOD because not until advent of Jesus that people fully know that the Father has a UNIQUE Son which is also God.


FYI please don't prolong issue if you know you can't give a direct answer to one question but deviating and jumping from one point to another.

First of all swallow this verse before I proceed "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:22

Sirniyeh:
For ages past, I have been seeking the right understanding to get convinced about Bible God. And I'm curious to know where was God before Genesis Chapter 1!

If you've been SEEKING THE RIGHT UNDERSTANDING then you should have asked for wisdom to ask the RIGHT QUESTION.

According to the book of Genesis, it's written:
1. "In the beginning God created..." Where was God before the commencement of the creation?

Where was the Builder before the commencement of the Building?

*ETERNITY=NO TIME and SPACE=NO CREATION
*CREATION=BEGINNING OF TIME and SPACE=EXISTENCE OF NON-ETERNITY.
God brought Creation out of Eternity and the meaning of the name of God "I AM that I AM"...interpreted "I AM (before creation) that (when there's no creation) I AM"
God can bring creation into halt but ETERNITY continues.

2. "...Let us create man in our own image..." The word "OUR" brings confusion. Who were the people (the co-creators) with God at the theatre room? Or were they female and male gods who mate to produce their likeness? Also who were the witnesses that brought the scene to book?

Dumbest question,
Firstly, the OUR connotes the GODHEAD and the co-creators are The Word and The Holy spirit.
How can there be witness when the supposed witness(es) were brought into existence

3. "...Let them procreate and replenish..." This raises important question. How did first couple get the idea of having sexxx before they couple procreate? Who revealed the understanding of the hole beneath a woman for procreation?

And you called this question :-/ :-/

4. "...that Abel's sacrifice was accepted and Cain was not..." What was the proof of offering acceptance then? And what is the proof of offering acceptance today?

The reason isn't that you're seeking for the truth but you've already made up your mind not to know the truth, if not you won't ask another dumbest question here.

The simple proof for acceptance of offering both then and now is God loves a CHEERFUL GIVER. Was Cain given his offering with a pure and cheerful heart? Absolutely NO!

Dear brothers in faith,
Until I'm made clear with dissemination of right knowledge about this issue, I remain unbeliever.

You said and I quote "Dear brothers in faith" and go on to say "I remain unbeliever."
How can unbeliever still believe he is a brother in faith?

Are you in possession of right knowledge?

Are you sure you possess this right knowledge?

Share it and save a soul...

And indeed your soul will be saved in Jesus name.

CAPTIVATOR:
@Rikoduosennin ....... You have spoken well , but you didnt realise what Emusan is up to, he is tryin to tell you that Jehovah of old testament is the Jesus of new testament THEREBY Destroyin is own trinity that said Father and Son are distinct persons AND UNKNOWN TO HIM HE has adopted Modalism, an error Which states that Jehovah of old testament is d same Jesus of new testament!

Are you OK?
If my post is too comprehensive for you to decipher, why can't you ask a simple question? So that someone who knows the road can lead you?

Emusan went ahead to display his hypocrisy and inconsistency when he said : " He agreed that Jesus has a superior God " but went ahead towards Sayin Jesus is that same superior God!!!

Is it ahead/towards? You can't use both.
I'm very sure you don't even understand yourself

THE REAL TRUTH
Why is Isaiah 40:3 that refers to clearing the way for The Father, Jehovah APPLIED to his son Jesus in John 1:23 ? ...... Simply Because Jesus is a " REPRESENTATIVE from the Father, and the Father sent Jesus" John 7:29

It's even good as you quickly twisted that verse by agreeing that Jehovah only applied it to his Son, remember what your man said was that he never seen where Jehovah sent Himself and that the Lord in Isaiah 40:3 is not Jehovah but ordinary Lord YET you can dance to the tune of someone who lacks scriptural knowledge.

RikoduoSennin:
Jesus did not create himself- The scripture saids HE WAS GRANTED LIFE, he simply was used to create everything else.

You said EVERYTHING but the key point you neglected in that verse is NOT EVEN ONE THING CAME INTO BEING WITHOUT JESUS is English your problem? If God created Jesus it means IS NOT EVERYTHING CAME INTO BEING THROUGH JESUS.

What John 1:3 is saying is this, ALL CREATIONS came into existence through Jesus Christ OR put it in another way NO SINGLE CREATION WITHOUT JESUS. Now is Jesus Christ a created being/brought into EXISTENCE? YES (according to you), then this made Jesus part of creation BUT John 1:3 never grouped Jesus among creation WHICH MEANS the God John 1:1 is talking about is much more than what you want us to believe.

Jesus did NOT create the literal Heavens (abode of The Father),

Then did this abode of the Father come before Jesus or Jesus comes before this abode?

he help create things in it eg Angels. I made a typographical error which I modified in my previous post. Jesus is not Eternal- Eternal beings don't die- EVER.

Because you lack scriptural knowledge or just for your perverted doctrine you can spew this trash.
Jesus Himself is EVERLASTING LIFE, so how can EVERLASTING LIFE die?

Why do you conclude I only use NWT.

I did conclude but asking a sincere question.

I have said it before, I use different translations. Even in this forum I make quotes from KJV and NKJV mostly. Scritpures don't contradict itself.

Then what do you understand from that verse 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time [size=14pt]the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,[/size] when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The "Lord" in that account is not Yahweh. Its not everwhere in the bible we have Lord/God to mean Yahweh. You can't superimpose that into the original text ( See what KJV did by removing God's true name from the bible because of superstition? Some can't identify where refer to God and where refer to Jesus eg My Lord said to My Lord). Jesus bears the title Lord does not make him Yahweh, Abraham was called Lord too.

Thank God you're a Jehovah Witness I don't need to argue with you here "A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: “Clear up* [size=14pt]the way of Jehovah![/size] Make a straight highway through the desert for our God Isa 40:3 NWT

So who is lying here?

Nowhere in the scriptures was it said that Jehovah sent Yahweh sent himself, but he sent a son

Read Isaiah 40:3 again and again.

Twisting the argument. I have said it before, Jesus is a God (No argument there), but he himself has a God (that is the ball bone of contention because an Almighty should not have a personal God he answers to).

I have also addressed this.

The Father called the son God because Jesus is a God just like The Father called humans Gods too (Jesus said so). The Father is not the ONLY GOD, he is however the ONLY TRUE GOD- THE ALMIGHTY

Next time if you can't address my question stop quoting me.

I asked why will the writer of Hebrew apply the OT verses that meant for Jehovah to Jesus the Son without committing blasphemy? do you still believe Jesus is in the same category of God that those human belong to?

A lot of beings are also called God whether we like it all not. What is important his, after calling Jesus God, he differential himself from Jesus by calling himself Jesus 'personal God'- who will aniont Jesus more than jesus' Fellows ( Who are Jesus Fellows).

Had it been you read the whole book of Hebrew you would've known Jesus' Fellows for quick understanding quickly read Heb 2:7-17