₦airaland Forum

JMAN05:
[size=14pt]Of course, rearrangement do change meaning of the verse.[/size] That is why an overall understanding of the bible is essential to bible translation. [size=14pt]But is there scriptural basis for the rearrangement? Yes,[/size] I however cannot give an official reason why the NWT Committee worded it so.

So you agree that rearrangement can CHANGE THE MEANING OF A VERSE and at the same time you know there's a SCRIPTURAL BASIS for the rearrangement BUT THE FUNNY PART is that YOU cannot give an official reason why the NWT Committee worded it so.

Mr. the only reason why you can't give an official reason is the question you asked below "Has Christ come prior to Jesus being born on earth?" this is what Watchtower has hide from you people.

I dont actually see the big deal in wording the verse that way. But will we we will not ask why it was worded - the spirit of Christ? Has Christ come prior to Jesus being born on earth?

Please ask why it was worded because IT IS A PURE SCRIPTURAL PERVERTION and way of hiding the TRUTH from you.
Bible tells us that Christ was in active in the OT "and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ." 1 Corin 10:4 ASV even this particular verse has been worded to mean another thing by NWT

Also, you believe Jesus is an Angel and do you thing Jehovah wouldn't have sent Michael (which is now Jesus according JWs) to earth just once throughout the OT?

and They are yet to understand that sacred secret of Christ not to talk of knowing his spirit was in them.

Who told you they don't? The verse simply says "...they were searching..." we were told that Moses "esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than that the treasures in Egypt" Heb 11:26

So that arrangemnt is correct than the other ones.

Very pathetic conclusion when you don't even know the reason why rearrangement was employed.

The question is; is there anything grammatically or scripturally wrong with the arrangement?

No one is talking about gramma here BUT SCRIPTURALLY is wrong because Christ's Spirit or Spirit of Christ or His Spirit means it belongs to Christ whereas NWT changed the meaning by showing that the SPIRIT was only INDICATING CONSERNING Christ.

Can't you see the different?

Please don't derail this thread if you don't know what is all about.

AgricSalt:
Emusan don't you see the proverbial statement fulfilling in your case? "Jesus said to them: 'If you were blind, you would have no sin'. But now you say, 'we see'. Your sin remains." ~ John 9:41

So how does this one fulfil in my post?

You want to be called a Jehovah's Witness, [size=14pt]but you refuse to acknowlegde Jehovah's Sovereignty(by words and deed).[/size] You do not accept [size=14pt]the full distinction between Jehovah and Jesus.[/size]

Sorry to burst your ass, I DON'T WANT TO BE CALLED a Jehovah's WITNESS, read in between lines before you quote someone next time your brother said and I quote "Witness about Jesus is to witness about God" and I asked that question, so can you do me a favour by answering that question?

On the two bolded parts, can you kindly tell us here how those statements were true about me?

You want to claim you witness about Jesus where you do not accept his main theme of teaching. For Jesus says: "I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God, to other cities because for this I was sent".

Sorry again, I DON'T CLAIM TO WITNESS ABOUT JESUS but JESUS HIMSELF COMMANDED ALL HIS FOLLWERS TO WITNESS FOR HIM in which the Father Himself is a WITNESS FOR His Son, so I'm simply following the instruction of our Lord the question is do you follow the commandment of Jesus or not?

Do you even know what the "Kingdom of God" is, not to talk of why it is a "good news"?

No I don't! Please kindly tell me.

Or do you imagine that by calling yourselves "Christians", you are Christians?

I may not BUT AS LONG AS I WITNESS ABOUT Jesus and according to your brother I'M ALSO WITNESSING about God, true or false?

Do you also believe this may be true about you?

"Not everyone saying to [Jesus], ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of [Jesus'] Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to [Jesus] in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then [Jesus] will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

BUT ANY ONE WHO PROCLAIMED Jesus WITNESSES about JESUS and according to your brother it's still the same as WITNESS about God.

johnydon22:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha thats all...

read my above post sir... no need going over it again...

btw i dont believe any God exist... be it Zeus, yahweh, horus, mithras, thor, odin, krishna..

Are we clear now?

You see i hate long unnecessary arguments, moreover we have derailed this thread long enough... am done..

Then what was your intention for asking such question if not because you're a confuse dude?

johnydon22:
I asked a simple question... nobody can even answer me...lolzzzzz

Why dont you answer mine first then i will answer urs immediately..

[size=20] what do you have against God[/size] (zeus)

Listing to yourself "nobody can answer you" when you're confused.

I don't have anything against Zeus

So do you believe Zeus exists?

JMAN05:
Why did you drift away from the line of explanation you are making about that Acts 15? Is this deliberate or you dont know the context?

I didn't know where you see me explaining anything, I only quote those verses and underlined the needful part.

First of all, the article you quoted shows that the Jews as a whole served as witnesses of Jehovah. This does not necessarily mean that the Israelites would go from house to house proclaiming Jehovah's name. But whether they proclaim God's name or not, The Jews as a group were a testimony of Jehovah's godship. Isaiah 43:10-12

The key point here is the underlined sentence "...were a testimony of Jehovah's GODSHIP"
You agree they were witness of Jehovah but ONLY a testimony for Jehovah's GODSHIP not for HIS NAME.

The preaching as we know it today was largely copied from Jesus and his disciples.

How can you say preaching as we know it today was LARGELY COPIED from Jesus and His disciples? was it copied or COMMANDED?

Jesus was a natural Jew, so he is a Jehovah's witness. Jesus did not come on earth of his own accord. The Father sent him in fulfillment of His promise. So Jesus bears witness that all God's promises will fulfill. Jesus himself proclaimed God's name (john 17:6, 26). He also stated that he came in his Father's name. So he is a witness for God. Rev 1:5.

Now witness of Jehovah has taken another meaning here to make Jesus fits into it.

When you proclaim Jesus, you are proclaiming God's means of salvation. That is a witness for God too.

See how you change the word just to continue spreading your false teaching "Proclaiming to Witness"
Now if proclaiming Jesus is equivalent to witness of God then ALL CHRISTIAN denominations are WITNESS OF JEHOVAH/Jehovah's witness, do you agree?

Secondly, God had always had witnesses for his name.

Can you provide scriptural evidence for this?

God's name is so important that you cant ignore it and say you know God. In short this is a secret that many religionist are yet to understand.

The secret JWs are also yet to understand is that the NAME of God has taken another dimension in the NT as "And in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved." Acts 4:12

Here a NAME IS GIVEN, which name is that? Jesus Christ!
After all JWs has unknowingly said this name is also Jehovah since they applied Romans 10:13 to Jehovah

The natural Israelites were God's name people, but they rejected His son, who served as His representative while on earth. But God had already uttered a prophesy that one day, He would form a new nation. That nation latter became the Israel of God, spiritual Israelites (Gal 6:16). Previously, God's name people never included uncircumcised gentiles. But in the first century CE, God made that possible.

You're absolutely right.

In the book of Amos God had declared that he would bring about a new nation, which will now consist of the uncircumcised gentiles. This new nation, the Israel of God, are still God's name people. The account says "people who are called by my name". Whose name? Jehovah's.

Then whose name the Apostles witness to Gentiles? Jesus Christ!
Whose NAME are the believers being called today? CHRISTian,
This is even the key message of Jesus to Paul during Paul's encountered with Jesus Christ "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear MY NAME before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:" Acts 9:15

Please is there any contradiction here?
Here both NATURAL ISREAL and SPIRITUAL ISREAL are mentioned together.
I think what JWs failed to agree with is how the NT writers APPLIED everything in the OT to Jesus Christ and for Holyspirit to allow these writers to do so is enough message for a true believer.

Peter told about the witness God had made by given his holy spirit on the uncircumcised gentiles, which is strange, but which had proven that God had chosen this gentiles as among His people.

Now James recounted this testimony of Peter and added that this occurence which Peter stated is in line with God's prophesy through His prophet Amos. So the prophesy of Amos, which James quoted is still talking about God's name people. As a group this nation are witnesses of Jehovah, He created them for His name.

You're still right here.
Remember according to you witness of Jehovah simply means a testimony for Jehovah's GODSHIP which is totally different from witnessing to NAME.

Peter adds to that truth:

1Pet. 2:9

But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies” of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Peter here used a scripture that was applied to the natural Israelites and applied it to the spiritual Israelites.

Ok!

So the spiritual replaced the natural. God did not form this nation and now cease to have witnesses on earth. No.

And did you know that in the process of replacing the spiritual with natural something happened which is Jesus Christ that ALL NT centred on.
The only witness on Earth now is the witness of Jesus Christ as He commanded "...and ye shall be MY witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:8

Show me just a single verse where THE APOSTLES WITNESS OF Jehovah.

Rather, since the natural Israelites, there activities, there Law and its power proved to other nations that there God Jehovah is the greatest and the Almighty among other deities, the new nation's proclamation of Jesus and the kingdom is another phase in declaring the godship of Jehovah - this proves that he can redeem obedient mankind from sin and death. That thus will sanctify His name. They had to proclaim many things, one of which is that Jehovah raised Jesus as a means to redeem us. All these and more are witness about Jehovah.

Again if proclaiming Jesus is also mean witness about Jehovah as you repeated it here, do you agree that ALL CHRISTIANS proclaiming Jesus Christ are Witness of Jehovah/Jehovah's witness?

All those are witnessing about Jehovah. Witnessing about Jesus is just one act made possible by Jehovah, so that too is witnessing about Jehovah.

Thank God you finally use the word WITNESS for Jesus, so are now ARE YOU WITNESSING FOR JESUS or JEHOVAH?
Another time you'll repeat this statement, now do you believe ALL CHISTIANS witness about Jesus? If Yes! then that makes THEM(Christians) Jehovah's witness too and what does your organization say about the rest of Christendom?

johnydon22:
Do you have anything against God (zeus)??

Do you believe Zeus exists?

JMAN05:
And you assume that possibility stated inside a parenthesis can be used as the belief of Jehovah's Witnesses? His words was worded in a way that you shouldn't have cast hope on it. You can ask him why he said so, but JW do not teach that God was talking to Angels.

The site stated:

"This site counters virtually every false claim from opposers of Jehovah's Witnesses. For the authoritative information on JWs' beliefs look to the OFFICIAL WEBSITE: www.jw.org."

Why dont you go to that site to get an authoritative info?

I said it before I provided that link a NL JWs has said something like that sometimes ago and also during house to house evangelism one JWs also made the same claim, the point you're missing here is that for you to see a quote with my claim should tell you that SOME people may hold the believe among JWs but might not be ALL JWs.

That question suites you better. Maybe you dont know what literal means.

Please tell me the meaning

Again, if God said 50 times at the same time, Jesus is that word 'cos he is the literal word of God. That is your puerile point man.

I asked the question to know whether you understand my point but you didn't just unfortunate.

[quote]The comment just exposed what you just gave a baptismal name - dumbness.

If the bible is the word of God, and Jesus is that literal word of God, the bible you have in hand is Jesus. Think up nwoke m.

You're talking about dumbness but can you see how that word fit you?
Bible is the word of God, but is Bible THAT LITERAL WORD OF GOD THAT COMES OUT FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD? I can see how you misunderstood the point at hand.

I hope am not talking to a lad here?

Your lack of understanding made you ask that. When I said knowledge, after the comma was expanding on what I said earlier - that I was talking about God's omniscience.

See your life outside, if you're talking about the same thing you won't repeat "His" you will rather write "His knowledge (Omniscient)" not with a comma to SEPERATE the two phrases.

God's knowledge is vast, that his knowledge was expressed in His creation does not mean that it is limited there.

I give up for purposely PERVERTED the word of God and BOLDLY spew this lie.

DOES God's knowledge was expressed in CREATION or the KNOWLEDGE was TO PARTAKE IN CREATION?
What that verse says is that HIS KNOWLEDGE was INVOLVED in CREATION and you know that IT IS JESUS WHO CREATED EVERYTHING.

Remember your claimed was that Bible never CALLED JESUS knowledge of God but what you are here doing is separating God's knowledge in creation from God's knowledge Himself

In fact the highest way God ever applied His knowledge is CREATION because after creation it's only GOD HIMSELF.

I wonder how that relates to Jesus who knew a fringe of what God knows. Is he still God's knowledge and yet had things he never knew that God does?

Did Bible called Jesus knowledge of God or not mr twister?

God's word is alive to its promises. Its promises come true, not that His utterance is a conscious being. Enough of your dancing to run away from the main issue. seems you love that so well.

2. Bear in mind that elohim is elohim, dont deceive your brain. The word appears both for Jehovah and for false gods which we know are not two or three in one.

When you want to make research, search for how elohim is used in the bible as a whole, not only in Genesis. (note that even in genesis elohim is used for foreign gods). Dont limit it as an available ground to fall on to save face.

Until you clear the mess you posted above before I will reply this.

JMAN05:
And who told you that of "Christ" was removed? Neither that nor "spirit" was removed in that verse. Rearrangement of words is normal in bible translation. You can present your prove that such rearrangement is against Greek grammar and the whole bible message. Thats what you should be doing. Time and again you keep exposing yourself.

Note: "of" is used to complete the sentence.

The point is, on what basis do you based your word rearrangement?

If rearrangement is normal in Bible translation you should also agree that rearrangement can also CHANGE the meaning of a sentence, which is what you're trying to use as an excuse here.

Compare the NWT with other versions:

"They kept on investigating what particular time or what season the spirit within them was indicating concerning Christ..." NWT

"searching what [time] or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did point unto,..." ASV
"Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify..." KJV

Both KJV and ASV said the SPIRIT of CHRIST in them was pointing to something which means it is Christ's spirit
But NWT was claiming that it was the spirit that was INDICATING CONCERNING Christ which is not the Spirit of Christ.

JMAN05:
oga prove your claim

You just like shading shadow sha, are you trying to say the above is not true? Anyway I couldn't remember the person name and post again here on NL where a JWs said so and one person during house to house visitation of you people.

Though I still found this "When God said "Let us make man in our image" at Gen. 1:26, Jehovah God was speaking to His Son Jesus, His Master Worker, the first-born of all creation (and, possibly, to the rest of the angels also), who were also made in God's image. (Pr 8:30, 31; also compare John 1:1-3; Col 1:15-17)"
http://defendingjehovahswitnesses..com/2014/06/is-gen-126-really-proof-of-trinity-let.html

Wether 50 states, is it not the word of God? Jesus is that literal word according to you.

I believe you don't even understand yourself.

Thats exactly what your idea is, dumbness. Thank God you reached that conclusion I want to bring to light.

I can see your low understanding of that my point, who and who reach your dumbness conclusion?

Do you not believe the trinity?

2. Now respond to the other point I made there.

How does my believe in Trinity got to do with the question I asked you?

Respond to what again?

His knowledge, his omniscience.

Are you confused or lack knowledge? What is the difference between omniscient and God's knowledge?
Beside you're wrong to say Bible never called Jesus "His knowledge"
"By wisdom the Lord laid the earth’s foundations, by understanding he set the heavens in place; by his knowledge the watery depths were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew. Prov 3:19-20 NIV

I started from verse 19 so that you can see that the writer is talking about CREATION.

The answer is there. Read the context of Paul's words. If you dont understand, just paste it form context here, and your eyes will open.

Talking about context as you're also following the same principle.

Oga dont expose yourself. If I were you I would have done a research on that matter and shut up instead of talking further on that point.

I'll rather advice you to do the same.

CHESSBOARD:
No, It is me that have a personal vendetta with you because of your beauty

Bro clean the left side of your eyes, the thing you clean there is what we called "ojukokoro" . Do you know that there is a ring in her hand?

But how can her face so smooth like that

kallmemrB:
Gen 5 :1-2 NIV student bible Version


"This is the written account of Adam's Line.
When God created man,he made him in the likeness of God.(2) He created them male and female and blessed them.And when they were created,he called them "Man"

And this mean?

In their translation (the New World Translation) John 1:1 reads: “In the beginning the Word was, the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.” This teaches them that “god” is not unique to any one person but is applicable to the Word who was with another God.

The first couple lived alone in the garden. The two are to be viewed as one.
A. Genesis 2:24 - In the garden, two persons, the man and the woman, “became one flesh.”
B. Genesis 5:1,2 :
• “God created man” (singular)
• “He made him” (singular)
• “named them Man” (singular)
Yet it also says:
• “He created them male and female” (plural)
• “He blessed them” (plural)
• “and named them” (plural)
• “they were created” (plural)

Note: that the first couple was collectively named “Man.” This was their original name for the woman was not given her individual name “Eve” until after her sin (in Genesis 3:20; see Genesis 2:23). The reference to “man” was interchangeable with “them” and included both the male and the female.

C. Genesis 1:26,27 -
• “Let Us make man” (=“adam”, singular)”
• “God created man” (singular)
• “He created him” (singular)
In contrast the same text also says:
• “. . . let them rule” (plural)
• “male and female he created them” (plural)

Again, the reference to “man” was interchangeable with “them” and included both the male and the female. “Man” meant “mankind.”

D. Mark 10:6-8 - Jesus refers to the first couple and after stating they were one flesh adds “they are no longer two.”

These verses imply that in the creation account singular references to “man” include the two persons in the garden. This is unusual with the more common meaning of the term “man” referring to the primary person in the couple, the male (Genesis 2:21). Likewise, although the term “God” can on occasion mean “Us” and “Our” (“Let Us make . . . Our image . . . Our likeness . . .” - Genesis 1:26) likely the more common meaning is the “Father,” the primary person in the ‘Godhead.’

JWs how do you understand this statement and do you agree with it?
“In the garden was the woman, the woman was with the man and the woman was man.”

Would it be correct to say “the woman was a man” or “the woman was the man?”

Please let's focus on these two questions

Rilwayne001:
Okay. you can call him anything thats your cuppa.

After you jump into what doesn't concern you.

Rilwayne001:
Face the topic

What Concerns you here? Remember the person who opened this thread didn't say Jesus is not the Son of God so you and him are not the same.

CAPTIVATOR:
TELL us if this scripture is a fabrication ! If its truth , the doctrine of trinity ( the word "trinity" itself is a theological concept, the word "trinity" neva appeared anywhere in the scripture) is UNSCRIPTURAL, 1 COR 8:5,6


New Living Translation
But we know that there is only one God, the Father,
who created everything, and we live for him.

New International Version
Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom
all things came and for whom we live;

This scripture NEED NO EXPLANATION, BUT I WILL COMMENT .

1) this scripture tell us there are how many God ? ONE !

2) as this scripture explains, hw many persons are composed in this ONE GOD ? ONLY THE FATHER ! The FATHER NOT The FATHER, SON AND HOLYGHOST ! BUT ONLY THE FATHER.

Is dis scriptural definition not more clear and direct than the theological One God + One God+ One God = One God nonsense .

But wait , probably that scripture is a fabrication AND IF ITS TRUTH ..... TELL US !


Comments welcomed.

Truth you're about to preach is so far from you, why? you quoted the first part and ignored the last part simply because it against your claim.

This is the full verse 1 Corinthians 8:6 "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; [size=14pt]and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.[/size] (NIV)

Here it says There is "ONE LORD" and this Lord is Jesus Christ. So going by your analogy then Jesus is God because in Deuteronomy 6:4 we read "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (NIV)

So tell us who is ONE LORD, the Father or Jesus?

Even in your own post you use the word of Trinitarians as you asked "1) this scripture tell us there are how many God? ONE!"
It should be How many Gods(Plural) not MANY GOD(singular). You will modify your post now because of this.

I know you'll appeal to another translation after reading my post.

JMAN05:
Pls prove the bold face.

Through mathematical expression or what?

2. If Jesus is the literal word of God, how did God speak during Jesus baptism?

Is it possible for God to speak in all 36 states of Nigeria at the same time?

When you burn the bible, did you burn Jesus?

As the Bible is the literal word of God, dumbness!

3. If Jesus is the literal word of God, how do you say Jesus is equal to God? and do you say that Jesus is YHWH of OT? Is your word all there is about you?

In what sense have I said Jesus is equal to God?

Are all the parts of God's body made up of His literal word alone?

God's body
Tell me any part of God that Bible never called Jesus?

You better check the meaning u are attaching to "ALIVE" in that Paul's words before you expose your lack of bible knowledge. explore the context.

Tell us the meaning nah Bible scholar

4. You statement about elohim as being plural shows your limitation. If you knew how elohim is used in the scriptures, you wont use that as a point.

My limitation or yours? It's not how Elohim is being used in the Bible BUT HOW ELOHIM is being used in Genesis unless you want to tell us that Elohim in Genesis' creation account is not YHWH.

CANTICLES:
Of course, the literal translation from the greek manuscript reads " the spirit of Christ in them" , but a translator must know that this may confuse some readers

This is a pure lie nothing will confuse the reader in that verse.

and they will think the spirit of Christ is actually a ghost livin inside christ himself.

I believe only JWs will think like this, so does Holyspirit a ghost living inside the Father?

Whereas this refers to the holyspirit . SO THE NWT renders it properly , and the literal translation was put in d footnote for reference .

Pure lie not to Holyspirit BUT the Spirit of Christ which means Jesus in his prehuman existence also ministered in the time of OT prophets and indicated the relationship between the Godhead that's why Paul could interchangeably use the Spirit of God with Spirit of Christ which you couldn't give straight answer to as per Rom 8:9 the other time.

Lie NWT disrupted the Word of God by removing the words that appeared in the ORIGINAL Greek that is the point here.

The same way NIV renders the manuscript that said literally " dispersion of the greeks" , this may confuse the readers who know Jesus is speakin with the Jews , so it was properly rendered " scattered AMONG the Greeks" JOHN 7:35 for easy understanding

This is just an open excuse to support your fabricated book, NIV ONLY used another English word in REPLACEMENT of "Dispersion" NOT that the REMOVE any word from that verse.

The point in that verse is very clear and only you and your organization will take it and an excuse "...Does he intend to go to the Dispersion among the Greeks and teach the Greeks? RSV

The point here is Jesus MIXING with the Gentiles.

so, tell us what the spirit of Christ is, if not holyspirit??

The Spirit of Christ shows that Jesus in His prehuman existence also ministered in the TIME of OT Prophets.

CANTICLES:
literal translation vrs 11: or " the spirit of Christ in them indicated " NWT reference bible . 1pet 1:11 footnote

RENDERING : " spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ , when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings of Christ".

SMH the words "Spirit of Christ" appeared in the literal translation or FROM ORIGINAL GREEK MANUSCRIPT

The spirit in 1 pet 1:11 is not Christs spirit, but the holyspirit from God which enable them to wrote about the future sufferings of the Messiah ( Christ) .

See pure broad day lie, so Apostle Peter didn't know what his saying before he put "The Spirit of Christ IN THEM" into it?

NOTE ALSO THAT :

In john 7:35 , the literal rendering is " dispersion of the greeks" BUT the context reveal that it was the jews that are dispersed among the greeks not the greeks.

What are you saying @bolded?
covering lie with lie again.

RENDERING: " scattered AMONG the greeks"John 7:35. NIV

It's only PEOPLE like you that will find it difficult what this verse is saying because of your perverted teaching and I don't know how this related with the JWs of purposely REMOVE the words "Of Christ" even though it appeared in the Greek manuscript.

NO SUCH SCRIPTURE EXIST!

So you know

CANTICLES:
What is dis one saying ?

RE - READ the post above . #updated#

You havnt gave me the scripture that said : " NO ONE Has ever heard the fathers voice" ?

Updated because you're confused.

In your update why did NWT remove the word "of Christ" in 1 Peter 1:11?

I won't give the verse until you address my post (the one you cherry pick that statement from) then I will reply you based on that.

CANTICLES:
DEAR

RE - READ the explanation above .

The holyspirit is also called :

" the spirit of truth" .
" the spirit of God" .
" the spirit of Christ"

Who is the Truth?

Then how the Spirit of God also become the Spirit of Christ? That's the question.

MzNelly:
*sigh*

Meaning

CANTICLES:
@ emusan ..... SHOW me the scripture that said " NO ONE HAS HEARD The Father Voice" ??

Don't you have Bible?

I know you pop up from somewhere because I said "NO ONE" don't worry continue in your hidden place and watch.

BIBLESPEAKS:
In heaven, jesus' form, his essence, his morphe(which is "outward appearance" is spirit. The bible makes that clear when it says "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" - 1cor 15:42-50

"Christ also died for our sins once for all...being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit" - 1pet 3:18

The Bible identifies two forms of bodies(outward appearance). 1cor 15:44 says: "if there is a physical(material) body, there is also a spiritual(immaterial) one."


The form of life that exists in heaven is the spirit form. God has that form too, for the Bible says: "God is a spirit" -john 4:24

You're still confused.

Therefore, God, Jesus, and the angels all have the “essence” or “nature” of spirit. [size=14pt]This obviously does not make them all equally God![/size]

The bolded part is the purpose of this thread, and it's very obvious that the bolded is a pure lie from the pit of hell according the Phil 2:6.

the name [‘angel’] does not denote their nature [just as the title ‘God’ or ‘god’ does not necessarily denote one’s nature], but their office. As to their nature, they are spirits.

is such a privilege for spirit creatures to exist in the very form or essence of God. So phil 2:6,7 says of jesus' humility: "although existing in God's form, did not consider equality to God as something to be grasped. But took a slaves form and being in human likeness.

You're still re-quoting the same verse with confuse mind.

Did the verse say Jesus is EQUAL to God? Yes or No! and stop beating around the bush.

I know your problem is the rendering of that verse by some translations.

CAPTIVATOR:
LIE ! The name " Jehovah" appeared more than 6000 times in the original hebrew scriptures before dubious enemies of our Father Jehovah, replace it with the title " LORD"
OR ar u sayin Father Jehovah appeared physically to humans ? " No one has seen God at anytime" 1 Joh 4:12 !

"No man has seen the Father " Joh 6:46

You're just grasping straw, you know I'm not talking about NAME.

This is your original post "The book of EXODUS told us that Jehovah gave the law directly to Moses ( Exodus 20:1)"
Can you see the underlined word? So you must be confused.

ACT 7:38 and 53 explains what make the above scriptures correct.
what appeared in the verse is Angels BUT I didnt quote the verse ( " " ), I only make a reference to it so as to bring out a point, the point is that Isrealite received the law as transmitted through "Angels" Act 7:53.

So if Israelite received the law as transmitted through Angels, how many Angels transmitted it and how many Angels did exodus identify?
Now you've added verse 38 to it again but see my reply to your brother's post about that.

( Act 7:53 says nothing about their numbers) just Sit down there, an angel will come and tell you.

See your life when you're misinterpreting the scripture.

YES ! The greek scriptures now support it with the details " God ( Father Jehovah) made the universe " HEB 1:1,2 CREDITED. Another detail is that this was done " through his son (Jesus Christ ) " Heb 1:1,2

Yet your brother is using Prov 8:22-30 as a prove.

Isa 43:15-21,22 is directed to the only people serving Father Jehovah and Whom he repurchased for himself on earth as at that time, the house of Isreal.

So you mean it is not Jesus who formed them

This is diffrent from Father Jehovah creating the universe for his own beloved Son. Heb 1:1,2

See lie so House of Israel are not part of universe

Father Jehovah claimed to create everything, because its by his WILL that they were made. Rev 4:11! And Jesus Christ always do NOT his own will BUT the Will Of the Father ( Joh 6:38, Luke 22:42).

Did Jehovah CLAIM to create or He actually CREATED?

For example, scripture again says Father Jehovah destroyed Sodom and Gomorah ( 2pet 2:6, Jude 5-7) BUT it was two angels whom he sent that actually destroyed it ( Gen 19: 12,13) . THE ANGELS ARE CARRYING OUT not their will but THE WILL OF THE MOST HIGH, JEHOVAH. ( Gen 19:13)

Follower of figurative and representative anytime it suits them.

The question " who was with me? " is not directed to heavenly creatures BUT to the repurchased house of Jacob ! ( Check verse 23,24)

Another lie to cover up lies.

Everyone know Angels Carry out the WILL of the Father Jehovah ( compare Gen 19:13).

Joh 6:38 also make reference to Jesus doing NOT His own will BUT the Will of the Father

According to you the Father Himself has never encounter MAN but His representative, so why would people WORSHIP this Father's representative when It's not the Father Himself?

JESUS URGE US TO IMITATE HIM IN "DOING THE WILL OF HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN" MATT 7:21

And this proves that the Father was never seen by man.

Illustration: As a boss, if I wrote a letter to another person through my intelligent secretary, who will the person said wrote the letter ? ME, but the letter was written through my secretary.

Illustratin 2: God wrote the bible THROUGH Men ...... Who made the bible ? God , but it was done through men .

Therefore, Father Jehovah retains the title of " CREATOR" , " God ( Father Jehovah) made the universe" Heb 1:1,2 but just as he wrote the bibe through men ...... He made the universe " through his son".

What if you want to explain to people how the letter was written, will you say the letter which you use YOUR OWN HANDs to write was despatched?

I believe if you say so that makes you a liar.

WHEN Father in the heavens said that: " this is my son, the beloved, whom I have chosen" Matt 3:17, are u tellin me that these statement is actually Jesus Christ ? Lol .... Remember another Jesus is also gettin baptized at that moment.

In fact from here you will know how confuse you are, the Bible also said NO ONE HAS HEARD the Father's voice, I know according to you this will also be Father's representative. mtcheeeee

So when christians call the bible "the word of God" ...... It means the bible is actually Jesus christ.

Go and do more research.

You don't know before and research on what oooo

QUESTION: WAS JESUS Christ Created??

ANSWER: YES!

WHY: I was born by virtue of creation, but of all things that came into existence by creation, Jesus is the "first - BORN OF ALL CREATION " Col 1:15.

The first Born IS NOT the source of a persons procreative power, BUT scriptural definition: ' Firstborn ..... beginning of a person's pro creative power ' Genesis 49:3 ! REALLY ? ' Jesus is the beginning of THE CREATION by God' Rev 3:14

The same old story

Electr1csh0ck:
d key is in vs 5 wer xtains are told to hav a similar attitude wit christ.if christ is equal to God then dt means paul was encouraging christains to do d same.

You're wrong Paul wasn't encouraging Christian to be equal to God if Christ is EQUAL to God what He was saying is for Christ who is EQUAL to God to leave such POSITION and HONOR and humble Himself to assume the position of a slave, THEN the Christians should emulate His HUMILITY...NOT as you interpreted it...

BIBLESPEAKS:
How is Phil. 2:6 Meant to Be Understood?

And your own explanation never does this either.

To begin with, the context of Phil. 2:3-9 indicates how Phil. 2:6 should be understood. The context stresses the concept of humility and obedience, and Phil. 2:6 itself is clearly meant as the prime example of this for all Christians. Even The Amplified Bible, for example, translates Phil. 2:3, 5 this way:

We know the verse is talking about humility but the actual point you miss is what NATURE does Jesus exist before He humble Himself to assume the nature of a slave?

When even a number of the best trinitarian scholars are willing to admit the actual meaning (or even an equivalent compromise) of harpagmos at Phil. 2:6, it becomes necessary for honest-hearted, truth-seeking individuals to admit that Phil. 2:6 not only does not identify Jesus as God, but that it clearly shows Jesus is not God.

The verse doesn't say Jesus IS GOD but my question is DOES THE VERSE PLACE JESUS IN EQUALITY WITH GOD
So to you does the verse say Jesus is equal to God?

How true is the underlined statement?

The Bible verses that was given to read Acts 15:14 "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name." and Acts 15:17 "That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."(KJV)

I believe the purpose of referring to these verses is the underlined words "his name & my name" but what actually happen here?

Verse 13 indicates that it was JAMES who is narrating what PETER saw about the Gentiles.

Now the big question is whose name did the Apostles actually proclaim before Gentiles?

The answer is the name of Jesus Christ

So how can Jehovah Witness claimed that the TRUE Christians SERVE as Jehovah's witness when in reality ALL the Apostles actually WITNESS of Jesus Christ and Not Jehovah?

Those who actually witnesses about Jesus:

1) The Father Himself: When reading the scriptures one thing that is very sure is that NOWHERE Jesus Himself witnesses about The Father rather it's The Father who WITNESSED about His Son, in fact the GREATEST witness is that of the Father;
*John 5:36-37 "But I have greater witness than [that] of John:..., And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me..."(KJV)
*John 8:18 "I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me."(KJV)
*1 John 5:9 "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. (KJV)

2) The Holyspirit: 1 John 5:6 "This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth." (KJV)
*Acts 5:32 "...and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (KJV)

3) The Prophets: Acts 10:43 "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (KJV)

4) The Apostles:[/b] *Acts 4:33 "And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all." (KJV)
*Acts 5:32 "And we are his witnesses of these things;..." (KJV)

5) John the Baptist: *John 1:7-8 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light." (KJV)
*John 5:33 "Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth." (KJV)

6) Paul: Acts 23:11 "And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome." (KJV)

The list continues but one thing is very certain ALL the NT characters never witness of Jehovah instead they witnessed of Jesus Christ.

RikoduoSennin:
Isaiah 26:21 "For behold, The LORD is coming forth out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the Earth for their iniquity and the Earth will disclose the blood shed upon her and will no more cover her slain"

The essence of you quoting this verse is to show that YHWH's coming is different from Jesus' coming but can you see the bolded part? So who will actually do the underlined statement? If it is YHWH what is the purpose of Jesus second coming?

There are different levels of Divinity- gods, God, Mighty God and Almighty God.

SMH...you just decided to wallowing in your deceptions.
The verse read "ALL the FULLNESS..." beside I'm just looking at the way you dancing around because what actually appeared in that verse is GODHEAD

"For in Christ the Godhead in all its fulness dwells incarnate;" TCNT
"For in him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily," WEB
"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." KJV
"for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" ASV
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" NIV

Did you ask yourself why ONLY JWs change the Godhead to DIVINE QUALITY?

Was it the person who made the statement of Verse 7 that made the statement of Verse 8? If so how is that?

How is that just continue to fool yourself you're asking when you suppose to provide a tangible reason while verse 7 & 8 are different person.

I Am Not confused, you misunderstood me. Jesus is a superior God to man but an inferior God to OUR GOD and HIS GOD- The Father hence he can't be an ALMIGHTY GOD.

You are only if you can begin to compare all your post here with each other then you will surely see it.

I didn't misunderstand you mr man, Jesus is a SUPERIOR GOD to YOU and INFERIOR TO GOD according to you but at the same time THE FATHER IS A SUPERIOR God, so if Jesus is superior to YOU and at the same time the Father is SUPERIOR then HOW MANY SUPERIOR GOD do you have? logically your answer is two yet you're proving smart after you've shot yourself in the legs.

[size=14pt]Man has so many superiors[/size] since we are the lest of God's intelligent creatures, but one one superior God counts/matters- The one called Almighty/ the only true God.

The underlined statement is enough for people to see how dubious you are, YOUR STATEMENT supposed to read like "Man has so many superiors GODs as you've been claiming since but you purposely remove God so that it'll look as if you only mean many superiority being AND YOU CONCLUDED with "but one superior God counts/matters- The one called Almighty/ the only true God. Seriously SMH

Wrong mon ami! Jesus does not know the day of his coming- True or False.

Someone who does not have the "Highest Authority" can not be called "ALMIGHTY" can he?

So because Jesus said He didn't know the day of His coming it means He doesn't know everything hmmmm I know you must have misunderstood that statement of Jesus again.

Please show me where Almighty means Highest Authority

No, JESUS WAS "GRANTED" LIFE(John 5:26). ETERNAL LIFE you said- do beings with Eternal life die? Did Jesus die? You see where I am going.

Olodo in the highest order is what you are, many times you've been told that Jesus possessed TWO NATURE yet can still be talking ignorantly that Jesus die. Is Jesus not an ETERNAL/EVERLASTING LIFE? now if you claimed an ETERNAL life died then what is the purpose of being ETERNAL?

Yes, Nothing else was created without Jesus except Jesus himself. When you read the Passage, you get the sense that the scriptures was referring to creation after Jesus' existence.

After the bolded you can still spew the last rubbish you need to get sense mr.

Just as he chose to use angels in his dealings with man. God chose to use his son to create everything you see today. He delegates duties as he sees fit.

And you think this same God can not chose to seek help from His Father while on earth

HUMANITY IN HEAVEN? Do you mean to say that although Jesus is NOW a God in Heaven he still has his own PERSONAL GOD?

Is Jesus NOW God in heaven or He always God since beginning?

NB: Jesus HANDS OVER RULERSHIP TO << THE FATHER.
Jesus will SUBJECT HIMSELF TO "THE ONE"// THE EXCEPTION TO JESUS SUBJECT (Verse 27).
By the time Jesus subjects himself and everything subjected to him to THE FATHER// THEN "THE FATHER" BECOME SOVEREIGN TO ALL.
See how you use YLT when it serves you. Read that Same passage from KJV/NKJV/NEV/RSV and see what that last phrase REALLY MEANT.

So you mean the Father is not yet SOVEREIGN to all now? I will see how you clean yourself from all these mess you're putting yourself into.

You accused me of using YLT but see KJV "... that God may be all in all." now tell me the different between them.

The Jews believe YHWH=The Father
You believe YHWH = Jesus, what then do you want me to conclude?

If Jesus is not the SAME as the Father, please HOW are they equal to ONE ALMIGHTY GOD? Is YHWH =3 Fission copies (i.e The Father, The Son and Holy Spirit)

GODHEAD=YHWH and they're three being in the Godhead. I believe you will get out of your confusion now.

Jesus is God/YHWH "ONLY BEGOTTEN SON" seeing as he was personally involved in Jesus' existence. But he is our Father in that our life force ORIGINATES from him, anointed Christians we become ADOPTED SONS/ SPIRIT SONS to God/YHWH.

YOUR life force ORIGINATED FROM YHWH or Jesus remember Jesus is the one who created you?
So who actually breath into Adam YHWH or Jesus? If it is Jesus why would Almighty God used A CREATED being to IMPACT life?
You always like to use the JEWS please give me one JEWS who believed someone else helped YHWH in creation (I mean the JEWS who read only the HEBREW SCRIPTURE).

Is Jesus Literally God's POWER? Because you question does not apply if it were in a figurative sense. (Please provided a scripture reference to Jesus being the Power of God)

father of figurative anytime it dances to their side.
Jesus is the power of God according to the Bible, am I lying?
Please show me where the Bible also said Jesus is a figurative power of God

It was the will of Jesus' maker (YHWH) that Adam be made, hence credit goes to him- Adam, Son of God. If Adam was called "son of Jesus"- glory will go to Jesus, and that would have been equal to the sin of Moses.(NB: Jesus did nothing of his own originality/accord- John 5:19)

So what is the glory that Jesus had with the Father before the world was made if this glory can not be given to Jesus?
Who actually carried out Gen 2:7 YHWH or Jesus?

@bold section, That is why the complete statement is "Jesus the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD"- meaning Jesus is the Only being directly CAUSED/CREATE by GOD/YHWH himself as every other thing in heaven and Earth was made "Through" Jesus christ.

And since Jesus was the only one directly created by God and called ONLT Son of God and the rest were directly created by JESUS then we should be called Son of Jesus.
because I don't see how ONLY will mean DIRECTLY CREATED if not for your erroneous teaching.

Does that make them equal or share the same authority? Or originate the same time? Woman came from Man not the other way round.

They were EQUAL IN NATURE that's why they share the same name but not the same authority.
Lol...woman came from man...and you think this prove Jesus' eternity wrong.
This is a simple logic...which means Eve is already being in Adam's body since the day Adam was created BUT WAS ONLY BROUGHT FORTH TO PHYSICAL REALM (if it is Adam that supposed to perform the action Adam WILL ONLY BRING EVE OUT OF HIMSELF--not creation) so likewise Jesus has always existed with the Father from ETERNITY but was brought forth (BEGET) AT A SPECFICE PERIOD to performed some specific task...WHAT YOU CREATE is not YOU but WHAT YOU BEGET(BROUGHT FORTH) IS YOU

This is the main POINT you've mixed up since.

Any scripture to back that up because what is written there in 2 Peter 1:4 is DIVINE NATURE not Jesus sinless Nature or is there a different meaning of DIVINE NATURE depending on whom you are referred to ?

Is it not the nature that Jesus possessed AFTER HIS resurrection Bible is talking about?
Was Jesus resurrected with another BODY?

Because if you see Divine nature and Jesus you scream "Jesus is God" but when you see same with Humans, you say its represent "Jesus sinless nature"

Answer the question above

ONE- THE ONLY TRUE GOD/YHWH/The Father of ALL, Jesus is just his subordinate, a mediator I must pass through to get access to The Almighty.

Is Jesus a SUPERIOR GOD to you? If yes, why will you have only Father as your superior God?

Is it wrong to Call a Professor the following titles Bachelor degree holder, Masters degree holder, Doctors degree holder?

What about calling someone who stopped at Masters degree program a Doctor degree holder?

Yes The Father is called both Mighty and Almighty (Most High) as well as other titles, but Jesus is called a Mighty God ONLY- he is not the MOST HIGH/ ALMIGHTY- he lack the credentials.

Another confuse illustration, from Nigeria to professor.

An2elect2:
From this passage i believe that Jesus is God cos no man born of a man and woman can ever be said to be in the form of God or claim equality with Him. Only God has His form and is equal to himself.

Ok you agree that this verse placed Jesus in EQUALITY with the Father, right?

Jameselias: Good luck jonathan is a human being and a president and i am also a human bieng, there for i am equal to mr. president good luck jonathan as a human being but not as a president.u get it.

Ok you agree that this verse placed Jesus in EQUALITY with the Father IN NATURE but they were DISTINCT, right?

oprajo:
you will understand that verse better if you read the previous verse and the next . verse 6 is in two parts . part one says
who BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD.

the bible didn't deny jesus didn't have the form of God. Some people when they want to explain this verse quickly ignore this part.

The word " FORM" is from a greek Word " MORPHE " where you get the word " MORPHOLOGY" from. morphology means form , shape , structure, appearance, nature. meaning jesus had the same form , appearance, shape and nature with God he is not talking about Jesus being a spirit because angels are also spirits.

let me quote a better translation that shows the true meaning of the word FORM.
AMPLIFIED VERSION
PHILIPPIANS 2:6
who although being essentially one with God and in the form of God (POSSESSING THE FULLNESS OF THE ATTRIBUTES WHICH MAKES GOD GOD ) .........
the part in bracket explains the word form. [size=14pt]Jesus was equal with God in form , shape , appearance and having everything that makes the father God.[/size]

PART two of that verse
thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
king James version used two key words in understanding this part which are ROBBERY AND EQUAL.
ROBBERY is from a greek Word " HARPAGAMOS" which means to hold to something forcefully in other to retain it.
EQUAL. is a word " ISOS " which means equal to .

This part is saying that this equality with God jesus didn't see it as something that must be retained at all cost. You may ask why? the next verse says why . the previous verse talks about ATTITUDE.
a better translation for the second part
AMPLIFIED VERSION
.........DID NOT THINK THIS EQUALITY WITH GOD WAS A THING TO BE GRASPED OR RETAINED.
because in coming to the world Jesus took the form of a man. The verse doesn't deny his equality with God but tells us that he didn't see it as something to be retained by all means because he was coming to earth.

Ok! fro what I can infer from your post IT'S LIKE you agree that Jesus has EQUALITY with the Father as per Bolden and underlined parts.

Am I right?

RikoduoSennin:
Literal "WORD" you mean though the words recorded at Hebrew 4:12 is not LITERAL BUT FIGURATIVE.

Everything about JWs is figurative, please when God spoke in the wilderness and the Israelite couldn't withstand His voice is it figurative too?

I recommended we you a common scriptures as basics, (A scrabble is more interest if both party use one common dictionary not different dictionaries).KJV/NKJV is more like a compromise on my part, please do the same.

You word doesn't sound like recommendation in the first instance but I can't hold on to only KJV because there are some other version who used simpler and straight words than KJV. What you can only do is to check whether I quote the right verse.

@bold section, you are so much in a hurry- I thought you claim to know my beliefs. If you know my beliefs, then you should know that Almighty God=Jehovah=The God of Isreal/Old testament=The Father. so there is nothing dubious about my previous statement.

Forget about this your jumbo jumbo, YOU PURPOSELY used GOD, in which you've been using Jehovah from your previous post.

Well, you should have Read Acts 7:38 " This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness WITH THE ANGEL WHO "SPOKE" TO HIM AT MOUNT SINAI AND WITH OUR FATHERS....."

I'm tired of teaching you Bible Ok!

Now you refer to Acts 7:38 after I've deflated you and your brother of Acts 7:53. Your initial statement was on EXODUS but the point Acts 7:38 was emphasizing on was on DEUTERONOMY if you read it from verse 37 "...A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear." and this took place many years after Moses' encountered with YHWH and before this time YHWH has already introduced an Angel which His name is on him. Though no where does the Bible recorded that The Angel Spoke with Moses on Mount Sinal likewise we can't rule out the possibility of the Angel talking with Moses on Mount Sinal.

Just continue to find representative angel for YHWH alright the onus is on you and your organization.

Well, tell me what Acts 7:38 says? How did the Angel fit into the picture even after Exodus says it was God who spoke? HINT: A representative is used yet that representative is not Almighty God.

Now you exposed yourself here what verse 38 was pointing to is not in EXODUS but in DEUTERONOMY, please was Exodus and Deuteronomy written at the same time?

Like I said keep searching for Angel that represent Yahweh and all these shits are just to support the lie that The Yahweh who spoke about Himself at Creation was actually represented by someone. SMH!!!

"Fellows" or "Comrades" you mean, No, Not according to me but according to Paul at Hebrews 1:9. Or do you mean to tell me such words/expression is not in your Bible?

In fact you suppose to just hide your face somewhere, you're the one who came with useless hierarchy here
-The Father is Almighty God
-Jesus is a Mighty God higher than Angels and Man

Now if Jesus is higher than Angel and Man can Jesus have a fellows according to your own hierarchy? this shows that you're missing the content of that Heb 1:9.

So you mean Jesus is God's LITERAL SPOKEN WORD (since you said he is not Figurative). Please tell me, How can LITERAL WORD have its own CONSCIOUSNESS?

And you think our word can be same as that of God
Is your word ALIVE?

You asked how can the literal word of God be conscious? Didn't Bible say The word of God is ALIVE, does the word ALIVE mean something to you?

I am a JW but please stick to my written material- I am not a fan of derailment. We can't be talking of one thing and you are referring to another, it slows progression of reasoning.

Likewise I'm not a fan of derailment and I stick with your written so making reference with what you believe is not a sin.

justwise:
justi4jesu is now 'bro' Dubai people

Good day, I sent you message hope you see it?