₦airaland Forum

dolphinheart:
If you feel that I dnt understand the scriptures I quoted in relation to the topic under discussion. Go to its number, state ur view there in relation to the topic and the scriptures quoted there?

Not that you don't understand those scriptures but you misrepresented their meaning.

You said and I quote "scriptures explain scripture" yet you overlook the scripture where Jesus was called EVERLASTING LIFE after you said in No 5 that "Jesus owes his life to this(his) God , He
pointed to God as the Source of his life.

How can EVERLASTING LIFE be created?

I quoted Phil 2:8 to counter your No 4 and I also expounded John 1:3 further to counter your No 6 and to show you that Jesus was never created yet you believed I never addressed any of your points.

Finally, I asked a logic question to address the issue of FIRSTBORN your respond was that "Logic can't explain scripture" whereas in your copy and paste article the writer applied logic too "Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that
Jehovah said:..." so can you see the harm copy and paste can cause in the life of someone who failed to read Bible on his/her own?

Let me ask the question again which one came first Jesus or heaven?
*if Jesus, where does He live after He was created before heaven was created? BECAUSE EVERY LIVING CREATION NEED A DWELLING PLACE.
*if it is heaven, then Jesus can't be the FIRSTBORN of all creation.

It's either you misrepresent the TERM FIRSTBORN or scripture is lying. I know you can't go with the latter.

MzNelly:
Who isn't?

This implies that everybody is a sinner, right?

Now is it everybody that will experience physical death according to the scripture?

MzNelly:
"The wages sin pays is death."

That's the only punishment they're entitled to.

Then are you a sinner?

dolphinheart:
Sir, if u have issues with JWs, create a thread for it and state ur issues. Or send a letter to them expressing ur views.

If you have problems with the NWT, create a thread for it or contact the authors.

I don't need to create any thread that's why I'm sending you to them.

My post was a reply to someone else and not you , though I dnt mind u contributing to it . My points where made with numberings and with selected scriptures to back my points up.(scriptures explains scripture , not logic explains scriptures )
If you feel I'm wrong , go to the numbering , state ur view there , explain ur view but dnt neglect the scriptures I posted.
I dnt do scatter scatter discussion.

So scriptures explain scripture the one that I quoted are they not scriptures?

You agree scriptures explain scripture but what do you have to say on John 1:1?
You used KJV, ASV, NLV, NIV in your previous post, so tell me if you're not a JWs do you agree with these translations in rendering of John 1:1?

Yooguyz:
I was going through the site and was shocked to see it there, because the site is owned by an australian man who has never been to Nigeria. This has double fold implications,

1. Awareness campaign of watchtowers manipulative behaviour by grundy and I in nairaland has generated a traffic of Nigerian witnesses at his site powerful and plentiful enough to attract nigerian advertisers.

2. If 1 above is true, then it means many JW's are arming themselves with the information to break free from watchtower cult. Oh am so excited!


Tags: vooks, emusan, true2god, bidam

I only have this verse for them "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;" Ephe 4:14


Shalom!!!

If not all but most Christian including JWs believe that Jesus pre-existed His birth and at the same time came down to earth but what JWs failed to put into consideration about this amazing truth is that they couldn't distinguish His Pre-existence life from His humanity.

JWs believe that Jehovah transferred the LIFE of Arch-Angel Michael into the womb of Mary BUT no JWs have ever asked what happen to the body of Michael after its LIFE left its body?

The very actual fact that distinguished Jesus' pre-existence life from that of His humanity is that The Word voluntarily humble Himself to enter TIME and SPACE, so Jesus didn't come to earth to act as God BUT to take on human flesh as a sacrifice.

dolphinheart:
4. In terms of rank, it has been explained to you the post of jesus in relation to the father.

1 Cor. 8:5, 6, RS: “Although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth —as indeed there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords’—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”
Paul statements presents the Father as the
“one God” of Christians and as being in a class distinct from Jesus Christ.

Ps. 110:1: “The utterance of Jehovah to my [David’s] Lord is: ‘Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.’” (At Matthew 22:41-45, Jesus explained that he himself was David’s “Lord,” referred to in this psalm. So Jesus is not Jehovah but is the one to whom Jehovah’s words were here directed.)

Phil. 2:9-11: “For this very reason also God exalted him [Jesus Christ] to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Phil 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. KJV
Jesus first humble Himself before He could reclaimed that POSITION He left.

5) . Jesus owes his life to this(his) God , He
pointed to God as the Source of his life.

Joh 6:56, 57: “I live because of the Father.”
According to the context, this meant that his
life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.

This is another twisted of the scripture, how do you understand this scriptures then?
2That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have observed and our hands have felt, concerning the word of life,+ 2 (yes, [size=14pt]the life was made manifest, and we have seen and are bearing witness+ and reporting to you the everlasting life+ that was with the Father and was made manifest to us),"[/size] 1 John 1:1-2 NWT

No Christian can deny these verses by attributing them to The Father, the question is if Jesus WAS called THE EVERLASTING LIFE (which is about His pre-incarnation) THAT WAS WITH THE FATHER, how can everlasting LIFE be created?

6.) In ur desperate move to use creation as the basis for calling jesus almighty God, u forgot to explain why the father was included in the explanation on how and why we are created . Here is a true understanding of the topic:

The firstborn spirit Son was used by his Father in the creation of all other things.

Joh 1:3; New International Version
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
New Living Translation
God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.
English Standard Version
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
New American Standard Bible
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being [size=14pt]that has come into being[/size].(cor 1:16, 17 )

The 1st underlined word never appeared in any place within the Greek scriptures but as you can see instead of using this verse to prove yourself wrong but you blindly concealed the lies.

@2nd underlined-Let me add NWT so that it will complete "All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. [size=14pt]What has come into existence."[/size]

Now if simple English wasn't your problem you suppose to spot the lies of JWs here because if apart from him(Jesus Christ) NOT EVEN ONE thing came into existence WHAT HAS COME INTO EXISTENCE.....then how can Jesus be created?

JWs claimed Jesus was created (which means Jesus came into existence ONE day) and John 1:3 says WHAT HAS COME INTO EXISTENCE (Which must include Jesus if He was actually created)...then it means Jesus is the one who created Himself.

The last logic question which came first Heaven or Jesus? Let me make it clear
*If it is heaven then Jesus is not the firstborn of the creation.
*If it is Jesus then Jesus must have lived in eternity before heaven was created and we know that only God lives in eternity.

Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that Jehovah said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” ( Ge 1:26) All these other created things were not only created “through him” but also “for him,” as God’s Firstborn and the “heir of all things.”— Col 1:16; Heb 1:2.

Jesus is not a co-Creator. The Son’s share in the
creative works, however, did not make him a
co-Creator with his Father. The power for creation came from God through his holy
spirit, or active force. ( Ge 1:2; Ps 33:6) And
since Jehovah is the Source of all life, all animate creation, visible and invisible, owes
its life to him. ( Ps 36:9) Rather than a co-
Creator, then, the Son was the agent or
instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the
Creator, worked. Jesus himself credited God
with the creation, as do all the Scriptures.(Mt 19:4-6)

Jehovah is the source of life BUT Jesus is the LIFE Itself, did Jehovah create His own life?

Jesus was the firstborn of all creation

Col. 1:15,: “He [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the first- born of all creation;
In what sense is Jesus Christ “the first- born of all creation”? (1) Trinitarians say that “first-born” here means prime, most excellent, most distinguished; thus Christ would be understood to be, not part of creation, but the most
distinguished in relation to those who were created. If that is so, and if the Trinity doctrine is true, why are the Father and the holy spirit not also said to be the firstborn of all creation? But the Bible applies this expression only to the Son. According to the customary meaning of “firstborn,” it indicates that Jesus is the eldest in Jehovah’s family of sons. (2) Before Colossians 1:15, the expression “the firstborn of” occurs upwards of 30 times in the Bible, and in each instance that it is applied to living
creatures the same meaning applies— the firstborn is part of the group. “The firstborn of Israel” is one of the sons of Israel; “the firstborn of Pharaoh” is one of Pharaoh’s family; “the firstborn of beast” are themselves animals. What, then, causes some to ascribe a different meaning to it at Colossians 1:15? Is it Bible usage or is it a belief to which they already hold and for which they seek proof?

If not because you've lost your power of reasoning to blindfolded teaching you would've spot the logic truth of Jesus being God in this your illustration.
How? You said and I quote "...Before Colossians 1:15, the expression “the firstborn of” occurs upwards of 30 times in the Bible, and in each instance that it is applied to living creatures the same meaning applies— [size=14pt]the firstborn is part of the group..."[/size]

@bold-Now if the FIRSTBORN IS PART OF THE GROUP, so which GROUP did Jesus' FIRSTBORN belong to? Remember only Jehovah existed at that time.

Jesus is shown to be a created being, part
of the creation produced by God.

Proverbs 8 :22(this verse is ascribed to jesus ):
New International Version
"The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;(that is why he is the first born of all creation )
New Living Translation
"The LORD formed me from the eginning, before he created anything else.
(he was created by God/jehovah/father)

Proverbs 8 :23:
New International Version
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
New Living Translation
I was appointed in ages past, at the very first, before the earth began.
English Standard Version
Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth.

(jesus was appointed to watheva position he has by his God, the father.)

Proverbs 8:25 :
New International Version
before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
New Living Translation
Before the mountains were formed, before
the hills, I was born--
English Standard Version
Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth,
New American Standard Bible
"Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth;
King James Bible
Before the mountains were settled, before
the hills was I brought forth:

(jesus was created)

Proverbs 8:30:
New International Version
Then I was constantly at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,
New Living Translation
I was the architect at his side. I was his constant delight, rejoicing always in his presence.
English Standard Version
then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always,
New American Standard Bible
Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him,
King James Bible
Then I was by him, as one brought up with
him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing
always before him;
Holman Christian Standard Bible
I was a skilled craftsman beside Him. I was His delight every day, always rejoicing before Him.
International Standard Version
Then I was with him, his master craftsman— I was his delight daily, continuously rejoicing in his presence,
(jesus was the one who jehovah used in creating everything, his worksman)

What the scriptures say is that it is wisdom that is talking here and Jesus is the Wisdom of God, how can God create His own wisdom?

dolphinheart:
Do you really know the God you worship?

Do you really know the God you worship too?

Rilwayne001:
Hey! longest time.

For what other reason(s) should it be abegg??

**continues eating my R and C**

No see my brother from another mother

Christmas is a season of remembrance that THE SAVIOUR of the world has been born.

Jesus Christ died over 2000years ago YET nobody ever addressed Him as Late Jesus Christ even Muslims can testify.

That's the reason of Christmas brother.

Rilwayne001:
...I know, but yet we all are celebrating it , for most of our friends are die-hard fans of father xmas e.g my boy francistony...

See ehn...i don dey eat rice and chicken since morning ...Like 5 plates dey ground now. How far? do i send you one?

If eating rice and chicken is why you're celebrating Christmas I'm SMH

MzNelly:
Sir, I replied; you didn't.

OK! Maybe it wasn't delivered. Kindly add me on watsapp 07038806022. Danke

And all these are because of 2015 right?

Any Nigerian who will collect money from any politician/party and come to public forum to fight for them will be consumed in the wrath of God soon.

MzNelly:
That's cool.

Did you see my PM?

haffaze777:
stop being mapa guy just quote where I said ur book predict d coming of anybody or keep shut

Firstly, you can now see how you agree with Femi!

Lastly, are you denying the prophecy of Muhammad in the Bible?

I use to scare of them before but since I meet MzNelly my German mate I'm not scared of them any more.

DrJoe1:
a typical nigerian is not interested in this kind of story, he/she is more interested in what his/her pastor says on sunday service. in fact, if you try to educate him/her on this topic then you are a demon ,
they don't even know the names of their african grand parents, all they know is isaac, jacob , nebuchadnezzar, etc

The problem isn't about people who always listing to their pastors RATHER some people like you who always think he is more intelligent that people who believe in God BUT couldn't say to himself; this is absolutely a great work from an intelligent mind NOT JUST an accidental work!

Because by the time we put many things into consideration; the TIME they spent, the KNOWLEDGE they share among themselves, how they CAREFULLY chose some elements and purposely REJECTED others, how they chose LABORATORY (where some apparatus were used) instead of OPEN ATMOSPHERE without apparatus to regulate atmospheric conditions, numbers of trials and errors e.t.c then we can conclude that the FIRST life on earth can't just evolve by accident.

haffaze777:
u must be mapa,where did I said dat I agree wit him?use ur brain bros stop relying on dis unscientific book

You didn't agree with him but you can search for his article and come to Nairaland to create thread.
Why can't you use the articles of those who support Trinity?

Everyone can see that you're the one who couldn't use his God's giving brain.

The same unscientific book still prophecy the coming of Muhammad I guess, deluded fellow!

Elantracey:
Now am prompted to ask [size=14pt]peradventure Jesus came down from heaven[/size] today and says there's no heaven or hell that this life is all there is, what will be your reaction and will you still remain a Christian?

So if Jesus Himself came down from heaven, why will He say there's nothing like the PLACE THAT HE CAME FROM?
Does it even make sense?

It's like I told you that I came from Lagos but there's no Lagos...

frosbel:
Then do not LIE and twist scripture, speak the TRUTH always.

To you I'm lying and twisting the scripture whereas it's only you who speak the TRUTH.

frosbel:
This is the most dishonest fabrication of this scripture and makes a mockery of our integrity as Christians.

God stands for TRUTH, stop lying for him !!!!

Brother frosbel we're not on the same path OK!

Remember I once told you "very soon you will say there's no God"

I just pray it won't too late before you realize

malvisguy212:
I loved this reply. Hope you are doing alright bro.

Yeah Brother! And you?

If this is what you can do to cover up your false teaching I'm seriously shaking my head for you.

BERNIMOORE:
dont jam-pack topics muddle up issues okay! the topic remains Jehovahs Witnesses Alive In 1914 Will Witness The End Of The World

Alright

now lets see even Gods chosen people, and see changes in timing of predictions as well as peoples expectations

(1)*, Moses

Moses delivaered a message of assurance to the elders of isreal assuring them of leaving egypt for a green(er)land/pasture ; promised land, and based on that assurance that they(the elders) will inherit and phisically witness the promise land


Exodus 3:16,17
16 “Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—appeared to me and said: I have watched over you and have seen what has been done to you in Egypt. 17 And I have promised to bring you up out of your misery in Egypt into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—a land flowing with milk and honey.


if we had internet then the isreal elders can assure you that most of them will enter the promise land based on moses pronoucements in exodus above

but what happened

They walked 40 years in the wilderness until all the elderly men (who received the firsthand promise) and all "men of war" who came out of Egypt had died. A total of 603,550 males excluding women and children came out of egypt, only (2 boys joshua and caleb) from the (1st) first generation who left egypt who were very young did enter the promise land, but moses himself and Aaron who delivered the message and who also nurse the feeling that the will enter the promise land DID NOT enter,

Deuteronomy 4:21
The LORD was angry with me because of you, and he solemnly swore that I would not cross the Jordan and enter the good land the LORD your God is giving you as your inheritance.

note; changed expectations

......Moses was inclusive of the 'first isrealite census which God ordered' (603,550 males excluding women and children) so as to know the exact amount of those who will leave for the promise land,(but that promised generation all (but only 2 persons remaining) perished

.......It was Another generation that was raised in the wilderness, who actually entered the promise land.



1, if we had internet then, are you not going to be monitoring their deaths, changes and variances and mock their gullible hope, even labeling the source of those prophets as unreliable?

2, will you still trust message from prophets who claim to have a promise to the isrealites, or doubt those prophets based on the inconsistencies in the previous messages from other prophets to isrealites?

Firstly, God didn't change His promise it is you who decided to twist God's word to suit false teaching.
The promise of God is "Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt." Exo 3:10 KJV

This promise of God wasn't directed to the elders as you claimed but THE CHILDREN of Israel
NOTE: I'm not saying the elders are not Israelite but the message is for the WHOLE children of Israel.

Even though you might not aware of this but you've already made it clear in your post that THE ELDERS ALREADY KNEW THAT ALL OF THEM WON'T ENTER, here is your statement "...the Israel elders can assure you that [size=14pt]most of them will enter the promise land..."[/size]

The desire of God is to take them to the promise land but they rebel against God, SHORTLY AFTER the Egyptians were drown Moses KNEW EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE PEOPLE THAT'S why Moses gave them the status to follow in other for them to reach the promise land.

"And he cried unto the LORD; and the LORD shewed him a tree, which when he had cast into the waters, the waters were made sweet: [size=14pt][b]there he(Moses) made for them a statute and an ordinance, and there he proved them,[/size] 26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee." Exo 15:25-26 KJV

NOT THAT GOD CHANGED HIS PROMISE because had it been that God actually changed His promise NONE of the Israelite INCLUDING their next generation will enter the Land BUT God remains a just God who can't compromise His standard WHICH is ALL SINNERS MUST NOT GO UNPUNISH.

Joshua 5:4 NKJV
4 All the people who came out of Egypt who were males, all the men of war, had died in the wilderness on the way, after they had come out of Egypt.

I hope you know the reason why they died?

God is a covenant keeping God, so why would God can be called a covenant keeper and when He keeps changing in His promise?

Based on the above explanations NOW COMPARE THAT MESSAGE of Moses to Watchtower teaching "...The "great crowd," [size=14pt]including many of the earliest members thereof,[/size] will survive into the "new earth." Survival into a New Earth (1984) p.184-185

"Prophetic information in the Bible about our day details the following: ...The survival of at least some of the generation that saw the beginning of "the conclusion of the system of things." True Peace And Security (1986) p.70

[size=14pt]"Some who saw the events of 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world."[/size] Reasoning from the Scriptures (1989) p.200

If this people are no more alive today, is it that they rebel against God?

why would God's promise vary with time?(400 yrs varied to 450yrs)

(2)* Genesis 15:13 Then the LORD said to Abram, "Know of a surety that your descendants will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs, and will be slaves there, and they will be oppressed for four hundred years


Exodus 12:40,41 The time that the people of Israel dwelt in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years. And at the end of four hundred and thirty years, on that very day, all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.

lets start with this 1,2* above

in fact this particular one shows how you lack scriptural knowledge because it's so glaring that you lack it for using these two scriptures which their message were so straight forward.

Genesis 15:13 says "...they will be oppressed for four hundred years" which you Bolden yourself WHEREAS Exodus 12:40-41 only SUM UP ALL THE YEARS THEY DWELT and BE OPPRESSED in the Land of Egypt which you Bolden too "The time that the people of Israel dwelt in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years..."

The statement of Genesis is so cleared because people can see that the verse is only talking about THE YEARS THEY WILL ONLY BE OPPRESSED not all the years of their dwelling and oppression.

Grow in wisdom man.

haffaze777:
pls quote from error free scripture if u have one not from dis error full book called Bible

If not because your brain is working upside down you would've asked yourself, which book did Femi Aribasala himself use?

You can agree with Femi when he used the same book that full of error but disagree with my point from the same book

BERNIMOORE:
History doesnt favour Gods prophets like Moses too, does that makes him a false prophet? hope will you add that to your book!

Tell me how Moses change in his teaching about God

I wonder how JWs reason because how can the FOUNDER teach WORSHIPPING of Jesus and his followers called such teaching an idolatry?

My main concern is this, Jehovah hates idolatry, THEN why will Jehovah allow Russell to die as idolatry when it is Holyspirit Himself that is directing Russell?

true2god:
Which language is this?

German.

where is MzNelly

MzNelly:
die Reichen wohnen in Abuja

Warum nicht?

Es freut mich

MzNelly:
Lagos. Sie?

Ich wohne in Abuja

MzNelly:
Sehr Gut. Danke

Bitte schon!

Wo wohnen sie?