₦airaland Forum

johnw74:
2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
.

Did you read the Op at all

ProphetUdeme:
guy na wa for u o, why did u post my mind.. The truth sets on these,, God will judge the world throught Jesus Christ the righteous Judge because He ha s appointed Jesus to judge the whole world. PERIOD

You and the guy you quoted didn't understand the OP, what the Op is simply saying is that Yahweh spoke many times in the OT that Yahweh will come by HIMSELF to judge His people but everything change in the NT that it's Jesus who will do the Judge. How come? Did Yahweh change His mind? Or, Has Yahweh truly come?

Any idea?

frosbel: Note : I very honestly have NO evil motive for this article other then to dig deep with my brethren and friends and find the absolute truth, so please do not berate me for raising this dilemma on a public forum.

Problem ;
In most books of the bible it says that Yahweh himself will return to judge and save Mankind but in the New Testament it says Jesus will return and he will return to judge and save Mankind, so who is it, God or Jesus?

I want to comment because of your first statement, so if truly you want to find the truth then you have only one option to choose from my conclusion.

Firstly, you got it wrong for calling it A PROBLEM it's not a problem but how Yahweh actually operates.

Secondly, thank God that you open this thread yourself and you're the very one who believe Jesus is not God but this thread should open your eyes to see perfect collaboration between Yahweh and the man Jesus Christ.

Thirdly, this would've posed a lot of problem for the standard of Biblical teaching if Jesus is not YAHWEH IN THE FLESH.
Now from the Old Testament books you quoted stating that Yahweh is coming to judge people I think the best question to ask here is how will Yahweh carry out this action? Since both statement agree that Yahweh will COME HIMSELF then the next question to ask is Will Yahweh come absolutely as God (when Universe itself can not contain Him talk less of Earth) or in what actual form will He come?

Very importantly the testimony we have in the inspired word of God who can not lie is that THE MAN JESUS is Yahweh in the FLESH to judge people which means Yahweh didn't come in His totality of His majesty as God but simply took on HUMAN FLESH to fulfil His promise that's why Jesus Christ Himself can say "22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him." John 5:22-23

Lastly, had it been you pay close attention to what you read in the Bible you would've discovered that Yahweh spoke about coming in HUMAN FLESH.
According you I will use Yahweh where LORD appeared
"The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the YAHWEH, make straight in the desert a highway for our God(Yahweh)." Isa 40:3
"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me(Yahweh): and the YAHWEH, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the YAHWEH of hosts. Mal 3:1
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa 9:6

That's why the coming of Yahweh in the FLESH must not be through a normal sexual intercourse it must be a supernatural process (Miracle) but unfortunately you've denied the Virgin Birth.

Conclusion, Apostle Paul and the rest of the NT writer provided parallel account of Jesus being Yahweh in the flesh in many ways i.e Yahweh and Jesus as the Judge of people, Yahweh and Jesus as the ONLY KING who rules forever, Yahweh and Jesus as the only exalted Being, Yahweh and Jesus as the ONLY Saviour e.t.c

The two options for you to choose now, it's either you embrace the parallel account of these people (including Paul whom you believe in his writing) who put Jesus Christ in the position of Yahweh in the Flesh or you discard the whole NT and you know what happen if you do that.

Shalom!

hisblud:
Hi rilwayne, from one of your thread, you quoted on good news which I was wow, so in Islam there is "goodnews ", [size=14pt]what is the good news you are to proclaim?[/size] And is that a pointer to new Koran that has no violence etc in it?

The only goodnews in Islam has been given to Jesus so no other goodnews/gospel in Islam again what they have now is what you see them doing in the world today because Muhammad didn't know the meaning of Gospel when he said Jesus was given the injil/Gospel.

ruffp:
.....Nobody is forcing u to vote APC.

Then did he say anybody is forcing him before?

There are about 11 other parties with presidential candidates.

This is the bottom line of the issue, if we truly need a change is there not a candidate who can perform more than GEJ or GMB among the 9 candidates? Why Nigerians are so gullible? Many people are shouting GEJ or GMB today because of what others are saying.
How many Nigerians have sat down and done a thorough research about other presidential candidates? In fact majority of Nigerians know only GEJ & GMB as presidential candidates for this election.

You have accepted that the PDP has failed us enough to be changed abi?

It's your gullibility that makes you think this way, what he's basically saying is this THERE'S NO difference between PDP and APC because majority of APC members today are also part of 16years rule of PDP then if we truly need a change, is it the same people who only safe face under APC but have been ruling for the past 16 years that will bring this change?

So of the 11 other parties you still haven't seen a party to 'change' to?

You misunderstood him, he's not talking about PARTY BUT INDIVIDUAL that make up the PARTY PDP or APC is just a name.

pls feel free to scrutinise the 11 others and stop insulting our senses with your stupid lies!!

@bold-It's no more 11 but 9 after you remove GEJ & GMB, please with all honesty and someone who truly need a change did you scrutinise all the 11 presidential candidates before you make your choice?

This is the major problem that's drawing us back in this nation we dance to the tune of what people say and not what we know as the truth based on our own research. I believe someone who can perform more than GEJ/GMB that can also bring the change we need in this Nation is among the rest of the candidates but gullibility won't allow Nigerians to make a right choice.


Mind you I'm neither a member of any party nor do I support anybody but I only reply to your post the way I believe we Nigerians suppose to vote this 2015 election.

hisblud:
Hello rilwayne etc.. I was following your thread https://www.nairaland.com/2050635/bible-god-share-virgins-other#28990753 where you made some posers on the issue of virgin,war booty etc. Though I did not have any answer to your question but what you brought up has instead of making me look down on christianity , has further enabled me to appreciate the new testament and the wonderful blessing through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Now, Christianity has since dropped almost all of some barbaric things that we read in the old testament, in other words we don't practice them but make use of them as history documents most of the time and moved on in the new testament which is based on love.... Now do you think that in the 21st century where Islam fanatics have been laying claim on the Koran as the yardstick for the things they do, don't you think its time for a new Koran that is based on love? Why? A lot of Muslims are in dilemma and cross roads on how to balance their statement of "Islam is a religion of peace" vs Islamic fanatics such as Isis who lay claim on the Koran as their basis to perpetrate violence.

Its time to bring a new testament don't you think?

Do you want them to change the word of Allah?
I read one Muslim post that says "The sharia law needs to be looking into by Muslims scholars" (I know that's his own opinion) I said to myself do the scholars know more than Allah?

That's the problem you have when someone copyright your work without understanding the purpose of your work.
Muhammad didn't know how Yahweh have planned His work before he copyright it even though Muhammad contradicted some of the Mosaic Laws he claimed to follow.

macof:
And pls tell, what does a man have to do to be accepted as a Christian by u?

Accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour.

Cus even as an ex-Christian myself, ur talk of holy spirit disgust me as it shows ur weakened intelligence due to religious dogmatism

You think it shows my religious dogmatism, I will redirect the question to you now, have you ever been baptized by the Holyspirit during your Christian life?

If you've successfully answered my question then read this again "...that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." 1 Corin 12:3

The muslims, hindus, African traditionalists, Chinese, Shintos(Japan), all lack ur holy spirit yet they have their own beliefs of what is holy and worship the creator in their way nonetheless...

You think I'm weaken intelligently but compare this your statement with my purpose of bringing Holyspirit into my post.
I didn't talk about being HOLY through the HOLYSPIRIT but HOW you can prove the existence of God and accept Jesus as LORD and SAVIOUR through the HOLYSPIRIT. Grow up in wisdom man

many of them live better lives than Christians, contribute far more to the world and live morally

And do you also agree that Many Christians live better than them, contribute to the world and live morally far than them?

What then can we benefit from ur invisible spirit that doesn't exist anywhere other than the pages of a book

If something doesn't exist what can you benefit from it?

It's left for you whether Holyspirit exists only on the pages of a book or exists beyond what you read in a book about Him, the fact still remains the same people have encountered Holyspirit in reality in which I'm one them.


Shalom!

ifeness:
lol a life indeed....more like a deluded lifestyle that only involves worshiping an invincible man,donating money to rich pastors. You lifestyle sucks lol

Since you can't worship an invisible man why can't you leave the person who can alone?

Donating money to pastors is now your problem, did the person cry to your house for any assistance?

ifeness:
It takes an intelligent person to escape the prison walls of Yahweh. You are trying to escape,I wish you well tho.

You think you're more intelligent than people who believe in God yet we see how you people display ignorance on this forum.

AjFive:
I skip prayers, I don't pray at all. I've got so many doubts, I'm starting to doubt the existence of God. Is the Bible truly the word of God... So many questions.

Is there anyone out there like me?



AJ_FIVE

I believe this increases the more join Nairaland so the truth of the matter is this, you're never a Christian but just Church goer.

Through out your life as a Christian, have you ever be baptized by the Holyspirit? I guess the answer will be no because if you are you will never doubt the existence of God.

"Wherefore I give you to understand, [size=14pt]that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost."[/size] 1 Corin 12:3

It's better you regain your salvation by enter into serious prayer and get delivered.

paulGrundy:
Raymond franz at the age of 59 and 81 respectively.

Cc: BERNIMORE/CANTICLES/CAPTIVATOR, rikoduosenin, JMAN05, dolphinheart, henrychubayo, MzNelly, vooks, emusan

I've downloaded the book and I'll soon begin to share what I read.

But no bi small work oooo over 400 pages :-/ :-/

@Paul you didn't tag my Miss nah ""MzNelly""

Anyway I suggest since this is a vital material that can bring more fruit to the body of Christ so those who will download and read this book should kindly post all the KEY POINTs come across with reference i.e Chapter, Title, Subtitle, and page number.

And for those who can't should stay tune and read people's post.

MzNelly:
"The gift God gives is everlasting life."

We are all sinners, and we all deserve to die.
But because of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus' shed blood, we are given another opportunity to start anew with the gift of everlasting life.

You're confusing issue here.
Now you've added another thing and nevertheless you never resolved the issue.

What you're actually missing from this verse is that this verse never addressed the AFTERLIFE (there are many verses which talk about that) but simply talking about the punishment we deserved as a sinner which you've taken to support your ideas of no afterlife.

MzNelly:
Live forever.
You know the gist.

Live forever again? "When the wages sin paid is death" according to you and everybody is a sinner.

So why will Jehovah destroy some sinners and allow the other sinners live forever?

like one of my earlier option you must have misunderstood that verse because your comments say it all.

MzNelly:
Yeah....some will be destroyed. By God.

Some? OK what about the rest?

MzNelly:
"The wages sin pays is death; but the gift God gives is everlasting life."

Now let me ask you how do you understand this verse? Remember you've agreed NOT EVERYONE THAT SINNED WILL DIE PHYSICALLY.

MzNelly:
Naah

Then why do you have to quote that scripture?

it's either you misunderstood it or you understood it but misapplied it.

dolphinheart:
If you feel that I dnt understand the scriptures I quoted in relation to the topic under discussion. Go to its number, state ur view there in relation to the topic and the scriptures quoted there?

Not that you don't understand those scriptures but you misrepresented their meaning.

You said and I quote "scriptures explain scripture" yet you overlook the scripture where Jesus was called EVERLASTING LIFE after you said in No 5 that "Jesus owes his life to this(his) God , He
pointed to God as the Source of his life.

How can EVERLASTING LIFE be created?

I quoted Phil 2:8 to counter your No 4 and I also expounded John 1:3 further to counter your No 6 and to show you that Jesus was never created yet you believed I never addressed any of your points.

Finally, I asked a logic question to address the issue of FIRSTBORN your respond was that "Logic can't explain scripture" whereas in your copy and paste article the writer applied logic too "Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that
Jehovah said:..." so can you see the harm copy and paste can cause in the life of someone who failed to read Bible on his/her own?

Let me ask the question again which one came first Jesus or heaven?
*if Jesus, where does He live after He was created before heaven was created? BECAUSE EVERY LIVING CREATION NEED A DWELLING PLACE.
*if it is heaven, then Jesus can't be the FIRSTBORN of all creation.

It's either you misrepresent the TERM FIRSTBORN or scripture is lying. I know you can't go with the latter.

MzNelly:
Who isn't?

This implies that everybody is a sinner, right?

Now is it everybody that will experience physical death according to the scripture?

MzNelly:
"The wages sin pays is death."

That's the only punishment they're entitled to.

Then are you a sinner?

dolphinheart:
Sir, if u have issues with JWs, create a thread for it and state ur issues. Or send a letter to them expressing ur views.

If you have problems with the NWT, create a thread for it or contact the authors.

I don't need to create any thread that's why I'm sending you to them.

My post was a reply to someone else and not you , though I dnt mind u contributing to it . My points where made with numberings and with selected scriptures to back my points up.(scriptures explains scripture , not logic explains scriptures )
If you feel I'm wrong , go to the numbering , state ur view there , explain ur view but dnt neglect the scriptures I posted.
I dnt do scatter scatter discussion.

So scriptures explain scripture the one that I quoted are they not scriptures?

You agree scriptures explain scripture but what do you have to say on John 1:1?
You used KJV, ASV, NLV, NIV in your previous post, so tell me if you're not a JWs do you agree with these translations in rendering of John 1:1?

Yooguyz:
I was going through the site and was shocked to see it there, because the site is owned by an australian man who has never been to Nigeria. This has double fold implications,

1. Awareness campaign of watchtowers manipulative behaviour by grundy and I in nairaland has generated a traffic of Nigerian witnesses at his site powerful and plentiful enough to attract nigerian advertisers.

2. If 1 above is true, then it means many JW's are arming themselves with the information to break free from watchtower cult. Oh am so excited!


Tags: vooks, emusan, true2god, bidam

I only have this verse for them "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;" Ephe 4:14


Shalom!!!

If not all but most Christian including JWs believe that Jesus pre-existed His birth and at the same time came down to earth but what JWs failed to put into consideration about this amazing truth is that they couldn't distinguish His Pre-existence life from His humanity.

JWs believe that Jehovah transferred the LIFE of Arch-Angel Michael into the womb of Mary BUT no JWs have ever asked what happen to the body of Michael after its LIFE left its body?

The very actual fact that distinguished Jesus' pre-existence life from that of His humanity is that The Word voluntarily humble Himself to enter TIME and SPACE, so Jesus didn't come to earth to act as God BUT to take on human flesh as a sacrifice.

dolphinheart:
4. In terms of rank, it has been explained to you the post of jesus in relation to the father.

1 Cor. 8:5, 6, RS: “Although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth —as indeed there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords’—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”
Paul statements presents the Father as the
“one God” of Christians and as being in a class distinct from Jesus Christ.

Ps. 110:1: “The utterance of Jehovah to my [David’s] Lord is: ‘Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.’” (At Matthew 22:41-45, Jesus explained that he himself was David’s “Lord,” referred to in this psalm. So Jesus is not Jehovah but is the one to whom Jehovah’s words were here directed.)

Phil. 2:9-11: “For this very reason also God exalted him [Jesus Christ] to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Phil 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. KJV
Jesus first humble Himself before He could reclaimed that POSITION He left.

5) . Jesus owes his life to this(his) God , He
pointed to God as the Source of his life.

Joh 6:56, 57: “I live because of the Father.”
According to the context, this meant that his
life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.

This is another twisted of the scripture, how do you understand this scriptures then?
2That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have observed and our hands have felt, concerning the word of life,+ 2 (yes, [size=14pt]the life was made manifest, and we have seen and are bearing witness+ and reporting to you the everlasting life+ that was with the Father and was made manifest to us),"[/size] 1 John 1:1-2 NWT

No Christian can deny these verses by attributing them to The Father, the question is if Jesus WAS called THE EVERLASTING LIFE (which is about His pre-incarnation) THAT WAS WITH THE FATHER, how can everlasting LIFE be created?

6.) In ur desperate move to use creation as the basis for calling jesus almighty God, u forgot to explain why the father was included in the explanation on how and why we are created . Here is a true understanding of the topic:

The firstborn spirit Son was used by his Father in the creation of all other things.

Joh 1:3; New International Version
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
New Living Translation
God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.
English Standard Version
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
New American Standard Bible
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being [size=14pt]that has come into being[/size].(cor 1:16, 17 )

The 1st underlined word never appeared in any place within the Greek scriptures but as you can see instead of using this verse to prove yourself wrong but you blindly concealed the lies.

@2nd underlined-Let me add NWT so that it will complete "All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. [size=14pt]What has come into existence."[/size]

Now if simple English wasn't your problem you suppose to spot the lies of JWs here because if apart from him(Jesus Christ) NOT EVEN ONE thing came into existence WHAT HAS COME INTO EXISTENCE.....then how can Jesus be created?

JWs claimed Jesus was created (which means Jesus came into existence ONE day) and John 1:3 says WHAT HAS COME INTO EXISTENCE (Which must include Jesus if He was actually created)...then it means Jesus is the one who created Himself.

The last logic question which came first Heaven or Jesus? Let me make it clear
*If it is heaven then Jesus is not the firstborn of the creation.
*If it is Jesus then Jesus must have lived in eternity before heaven was created and we know that only God lives in eternity.

Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that Jehovah said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” ( Ge 1:26) All these other created things were not only created “through him” but also “for him,” as God’s Firstborn and the “heir of all things.”— Col 1:16; Heb 1:2.

Jesus is not a co-Creator. The Son’s share in the
creative works, however, did not make him a
co-Creator with his Father. The power for creation came from God through his holy
spirit, or active force. ( Ge 1:2; Ps 33:6) And
since Jehovah is the Source of all life, all animate creation, visible and invisible, owes
its life to him. ( Ps 36:9) Rather than a co-
Creator, then, the Son was the agent or
instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the
Creator, worked. Jesus himself credited God
with the creation, as do all the Scriptures.(Mt 19:4-6)

Jehovah is the source of life BUT Jesus is the LIFE Itself, did Jehovah create His own life?

Jesus was the firstborn of all creation

Col. 1:15,: “He [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the first- born of all creation;
In what sense is Jesus Christ “the first- born of all creation”? (1) Trinitarians say that “first-born” here means prime, most excellent, most distinguished; thus Christ would be understood to be, not part of creation, but the most
distinguished in relation to those who were created. If that is so, and if the Trinity doctrine is true, why are the Father and the holy spirit not also said to be the firstborn of all creation? But the Bible applies this expression only to the Son. According to the customary meaning of “firstborn,” it indicates that Jesus is the eldest in Jehovah’s family of sons. (2) Before Colossians 1:15, the expression “the firstborn of” occurs upwards of 30 times in the Bible, and in each instance that it is applied to living
creatures the same meaning applies— the firstborn is part of the group. “The firstborn of Israel” is one of the sons of Israel; “the firstborn of Pharaoh” is one of Pharaoh’s family; “the firstborn of beast” are themselves animals. What, then, causes some to ascribe a different meaning to it at Colossians 1:15? Is it Bible usage or is it a belief to which they already hold and for which they seek proof?

If not because you've lost your power of reasoning to blindfolded teaching you would've spot the logic truth of Jesus being God in this your illustration.
How? You said and I quote "...Before Colossians 1:15, the expression “the firstborn of” occurs upwards of 30 times in the Bible, and in each instance that it is applied to living creatures the same meaning applies— [size=14pt]the firstborn is part of the group..."[/size]

@bold-Now if the FIRSTBORN IS PART OF THE GROUP, so which GROUP did Jesus' FIRSTBORN belong to? Remember only Jehovah existed at that time.

Jesus is shown to be a created being, part
of the creation produced by God.

Proverbs 8 :22(this verse is ascribed to jesus ):
New International Version
"The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;(that is why he is the first born of all creation )
New Living Translation
"The LORD formed me from the eginning, before he created anything else.
(he was created by God/jehovah/father)

Proverbs 8 :23:
New International Version
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
New Living Translation
I was appointed in ages past, at the very first, before the earth began.
English Standard Version
Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth.

(jesus was appointed to watheva position he has by his God, the father.)

Proverbs 8:25 :
New International Version
before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
New Living Translation
Before the mountains were formed, before
the hills, I was born--
English Standard Version
Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth,
New American Standard Bible
"Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth;
King James Bible
Before the mountains were settled, before
the hills was I brought forth:

(jesus was created)

Proverbs 8:30:
New International Version
Then I was constantly at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,
New Living Translation
I was the architect at his side. I was his constant delight, rejoicing always in his presence.
English Standard Version
then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always,
New American Standard Bible
Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him,
King James Bible
Then I was by him, as one brought up with
him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing
always before him;
Holman Christian Standard Bible
I was a skilled craftsman beside Him. I was His delight every day, always rejoicing before Him.
International Standard Version
Then I was with him, his master craftsman— I was his delight daily, continuously rejoicing in his presence,
(jesus was the one who jehovah used in creating everything, his worksman)

What the scriptures say is that it is wisdom that is talking here and Jesus is the Wisdom of God, how can God create His own wisdom?

dolphinheart:
Do you really know the God you worship?

Do you really know the God you worship too?

Rilwayne001:
Hey! longest time.

For what other reason(s) should it be abegg??

**continues eating my R and C**

No see my brother from another mother

Christmas is a season of remembrance that THE SAVIOUR of the world has been born.

Jesus Christ died over 2000years ago YET nobody ever addressed Him as Late Jesus Christ even Muslims can testify.

That's the reason of Christmas brother.

Rilwayne001:
...I know, but yet we all are celebrating it , for most of our friends are die-hard fans of father xmas e.g my boy francistony...

See ehn...i don dey eat rice and chicken since morning ...Like 5 plates dey ground now. How far? do i send you one?

If eating rice and chicken is why you're celebrating Christmas I'm SMH

MzNelly:
Sir, I replied; you didn't.

OK! Maybe it wasn't delivered. Kindly add me on watsapp 07038806022. Danke