₦airaland Forum

musKeeto: The only reason you are Christian is cos ur yet to encounter Allah.

Ask anyone who is a worshiper of the bold whether he/she has ever feel His presence or having a real encounter with Him?

I must admit that sometimes I wonder if the average christian really understands that there is a spiritual war raging around him—in his home, church, school—well, everywhere! The NT contains a lot of war terminology. I was particularly reminded of this passage in Ephesians:
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. ( Ephesians 6:12)

And then this instruction follows to make sure Christians are equipped for the battle:
Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. ( Ephesians 6:13–17)

It seems to me that many Christians are virtually asleep while a battle rages all around them. They go to church, send their kids to school, and come home and watch TV or whatever they like to do—all seemingly oblivious to a shocking and destructive war that is capturing them, many of their kids and grandkids for the enemy and is destroying the culture.

I am burdened by the thought that every Christian must understand they are all soldiers in a battle—and they all need to be at the front line and equipped to engage the enemy, who is set to drag them down and capture the coming generations of children.

Ken-Ham

Shalom!

musKeeto: Honestly, we don't miss you.

Lol...I will always miss you people.


Shalom!

Mintayo: what do u mean by saying bye-bye to them?
Are you talking about arguing with them or evangelizing(telling them abt Jesus)?
I believe u know there is nothing wrong in doing the latter!

I mean the Bold. The latter will be done without the bold. Thanks Sir!


Shalom!

Ajibam: Amen...and the Bad news is that..time is going

I have said bye-bye to Atheist about two Months ago and Muslim going to a Month now because I realise that I need more God's manifestation than them self.

Shalom!

nlmonpoint: Buh my friend, if Jesus was God , why did he have to pray to God?

God only made His own word to became a flesh in the person of Jesus. Your word is also you simple.

mahdino: It will be good if u suggest important topic to discuss on the likes;-
1 Is the bible God's word? Or
2 Was Christ crucified? Or
3 Is Jesus God?
Or any other important topic.
Let start a thread on the debate and invite everyone both through the net and other media means. I believe Abuja is a good place for it to take place.

Well the way you want to handle this I perceived it in a boyant way. I would've so welcome this idea but facing some personal issue now i.e finance, beside this I have made up my mind going to a Month now that I won't engage myself in any argument about God, Jesus and the Bible anymore and search net just to support my argument rather I preach the Gospel of Christ which I'm so serious about.

Initially I thought is something that will involve you and I only because as it is now I'm very sure we'll get additional prove from outside the Bible.

So I will seek a permition to give me a little time to face my challenges now, and when time comes I will invite you with a condition "if only our discusion will not go beyond the Bible and Quran-no link or additional source but any version of Bible or Quran is allow. Thanks.


Shalom!

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]South America (christian inquisition/forced conversion), Phillipines(christian inquisition/forced conversion), North America (chrisitian missionary work/forced assimilation and conversion of natives/genocide of native tribals), Europe (forced conversion/inquisition),Egypt(forced conversion of Pagans/destruction of Pagan Library in Alexandria,etc.) sub-saharan Africa (slave-trade sanctioned by church highest-suthority, forced conversion of slaves in New Land and on ships).[/quote]Thanks for this, just that I have made up my mind not to post anything from net about God again.

Shalom!

bilms: One thing you fail to realize is that, if i should engage you in this discus,

Even if you start I won't because I said it earlier.

all your long write ups would turn short as i am very certain that you lack the intellectual strength to hold a discussion without resorting to personal abuse.

Hmmm!

Just now, you asked, why did i say you are wrong, and i made it clear that, it is because you want to impose your religious view on others against theirs, and when they reject such, you call them names and tag them intolerant and their religion bad or wrong. What did you do next? Call me hypocrite. Do you know the meaning of a hypocrite? I doubt. Many of you guys just use words without knowing it meaning and usage. Anyway, take care. Salam

Ok I agree anything you believe is right is that is that ok by you?

If you my post as being abusive kindly forgive me.

Jesus has come and died for our sins anything you believe about Him so it be.

Shalom!

rhymz: you are not allowed to manufacture your own facts and personal opinions.

I didn't but I always infer my point from Bible Itself.

1. Is Jesus Christ Begotten, yes or know?

Yes! The firstborn of all creation. He begins to exist when God said "Let there be.." because He's the spoken-word of God.

Imagine you & your J.Brother were together and you need water, you told him "get me water" he'll do according to your command(the word that came from your mouth), let's assume nobody was there with you and you say "water in a cup come out" suddenly a cup filled with water appeared but you didn't move an inch,Then you will know that you only issue a COMMAND but something performed the ACTION, again if you decided not to send your J.B or speak in the air; Nothing will happen!
We read in many places in the Bible that God created the worlds whereas some places also said God created It by 'His word' do will say they contradict? No! because God only issue a command and HIS WORD performed the action God didn't do the whole thing Himself but His word did it that's why at the end of every creation accounts this phrase always appears "And God saw it was good" because God waits for the word to accomplished His command.

2. If Jesus is God then who exactly is the Father that he so fondly refers to every time he is making a point about heaven, himself or a separate higher person or deity?

The point most people didn't understand about Trinity is that God only made His own word to became a flesh in the person of Jesus. It's when this WORD became flesh It was given a name He always with the Father. Your word always with you.

God is all powerful being who can manifest Himself the way He wants. He(God) sent His own word into the worlds in the person of Jesus John 1:10 "He(the word) was in the world, and the world was made by Him(the word), and the world knew Him(the word) not"

3. Does God have a spirit? If yes then in what form does he exist as God, another spirit too?

Even the book of Rev make it clear that God has seven Spirits. "seven spirits(plural) of God(singular). Also Jesus comfirmed it when He said 'God is a Spirit' John 4:24 He is a Spirit but has IMAGE.

not that I believe the incoherence rife on the bible

God is real honestly, it's just that people like to do things on their own that leads to all what we see about God today.

In Acts 7:55,56 and col 3:1, we are told that Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in heaven.

Bible said it but see detail below

How about the book of John 8: 7-18, where Jesus wanted to make it very clear that Jesus and God are two separate beings. It reads "It is written in your law, that the testimony of TWO men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the father that sent me beareth of me." If Jesus and
God are one in the same, Jesus wouldn't have been able to make that statement.

If only you could just agree that Jesus is the spoken-word of God then no confusion about Jesus' statement. He even said "My Father is greater than I". In my illustration above when you decided not to send your J.B or speak in the air, Nothing will happen. If God didn't speak Jesus will not act which make God greater than His WORD(Jesus). If you didn't speak nobody can hold your word against you. So when Jesus(the Word) was made flesh He totally different from what It was in the beginning(as a seperate being) but He was the IMAGE of the invisble Father on earth, He told Phillip "whoever has seen Me has seen the Father"

How about Rev. 5:7: And he (the lamb, Jesus) came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat on the throne (God).

NOTE: A singular Throne was used throughout the book of Revelation. So let's see this verse again.

Rev 7:17 "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

So God seated on throne and the Lamb also in the midst of the throne. You see Jesus(the Lamb/Word) you see God. As He has told Phillip.

I await your response, if you can intelligently respond to these questions with out throwing childish temper tantrums then we can fully explore this discussion to its fullest.

Hope I didn't do as you thinketh?


Shalom!

mahdino: Allah said in the quran
"The similtude of Jesus in the sight of God is like that of Adam, he created him from dust and he said to him Be and he was.
If Jesus proceeded out from God but with mother so if he is god, then Adam is a greater god because he does not even have a mother.

Who is the Father of Jesus Christ?
Adam and Eve was made from the dust of the ground and God breathed in his nostrils a breathe of Life and he became a living soul. The way God created Adam was simple and cleared. All humans then came from their reproduction.

U keep saying lies. Ok when for example I say 2+2=4 and u think its a lie then u tell us the truth and give us reason why 2+2 is not 4. U just say lies and u start saying how u want it to be, that is not accepted.

God(The Father) sent His own word into the world in the person of Jesus Christ(The Son), and anointed Him(Jesus) with His own Holyspirit.

Father-is the God Himself
Son(The word/Jesus)-is the Spoken-word of God(the Father)
Holyspirit-is the Spirit of God(Father) Himself.

Your spirit and your word represent you anytime anywhere and their also you, true or false?

Hope is clear?

I have explained to u with examples the will of God, I guess I don't get your question give us an example.

The will of God for us is to be free from death, sorrow, sickness by having eternal life through His only begotten Son.

Emusan if u feel that u know ur bible so well then let's come together and reason, we can organise a debate, there are so many things that can be explained easier by speech.

I will be so greateful if this can be possibled. I live in Abuja, how can we meet?

Shalom!

Anuoluwap: At age 12 or so When he was left behind by Mary and Joseph he told them "why did you seek me? Do you not know that I should be in my Father's house? "When Jesus was to be betrayed by Judas; he took some of his disciples with him for prayer. Bt went alone to pray to his 'Father' . Again on the cross of calvary Jesus said, "Father forgive them for they do not know what they have done"
He said it with His own mouth what else? Or do you think he's refering to a non-existing Father?

All what you put up here happened because God sent His own word into the world in person of Jesus, it's until when the word became flesh was given name inwhich God Himself approve:
*Immanuel-God with us
*Alpha & Omega-The Beginning & The End
*The Almighty God e.t.c

John said 'and the word became flesh'. Ask yourself; whose word became flesh?


Shalom!

Anuoluwap: bro finish dat John u'll c more cncerning d mata.

No need to do that I've said it that JESUS is the WORD of GOD what else do you want or Am I wrong?

frosbel: Jesus is the Son of GOD - short and simple.

You didn't put 'First Begotten' there.

Are you saying Jesus is not the spoken word of God or what?

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]you are an a$$hole and if you say this to my face , ill shoot you dead.

How dare you ignore the sacrifices of millions of dead? [/quote]Hmmm are you sure!

Millions of dead in which country?

Anuoluwap: Most people got it wrong. God the Father and Jesus the Son. Jesus preaches about his Father which is God but to be intimate with God you have to be close to the Son first. Both God and Jesus can be addressed as "Lord" because the word is a simple english even it is used to address Judges in the court of law.
NOTE: The book of Psalms is refering to God.

I believe you don't know who Jesus really is. This has been a major controversy and unknow mystery about Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is the spoken-word of God, that's why Jesus said "I and my Father are one"

John made it clear that Jesus is God when he wrote "In the beginning was the WORD(Jesus), and the word(JESUS) was with God, and the word(JESUS) was GOD. John 1:1

Nobody can seperate your WORD from you.

Shalom!

bilms: Because you want to impose your believe on them.

See what you resolted to, Isn't that an hypocrite and how many people Christians have killed or forced to go to church just because they failed to accept Jesus Christ?

The real meaning of Muslim in Yoruba is IMOLILE to beark it down:

IMO-Teaching
LILE- Too Hard.
All together It means 'A teaching received in a hard way'. Why this name? When Islam came to South West of Nig. It was by force to accept It and then Yoruba culture promotes peach even than Islam Itself.

I don't like saying all this but because of your statement.
So christians never force and will never force anybody to accept Christ.

Shalom!

frosbel: Jesus made a statement :

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." - Mark 12:29


God is ONE, not TWO and certainly not THREE.

This is what you missed;

*Father - is the God Himself
*Son(word/Jesus) - is the spoken-word of God-Father (the word of God sent into the world in person of Jesus Christ)
*Holyspirit - is the Spirit of Father Himself.

Nobody can seperate these three from each other simple.
Unless if you want to deny the existence of the three above.

Salom!

rhymz: Dude what exactly is your point?

The point you see above.

You seem to be ignorantly claiming that the bible is inerrant or has not been severally altered and distorted.

Just simple question you couldn't give simple answer.

If seriously you are interested about the theology and historicity of the trinity doctrine,

I don't have interest thanks, I read my little King James Version and understood It.

then you will take your time to read about the Nicene Creed and about the Libyan scholar Arius that argued against the concept of a three in one God, as if ma commercial detergent

I rejected the word 'Trinity' many years ago when Bible is not too clear to me, but now this is what I called my own Trinity:

*Father-The God Himself
*Son(Word/Jesus)-The spoken-word of God Himself
*Holyspirit-The Spirit of God Himself.

The same God who send His own word into the world in person of Jesus and santified the Gentiles with His own Spirit.

So there are three in one.

Shalom!

@Ayeni being a long time man?

I just have something to ship in; you quickly grab the TITLE of his(Femi) message but you neglected the main point because you see Paul's word as Paul's own word.

This is the point you missed: "The word of God is, and will forever be, with God. (John 1:1). God created all things with his word. He spoke his word to the patriarchs and the prophets of Israel. Then he sent his word to the world in the person of Jesus, his Son."

Now if God sent His own word into the world in the person of Jesus, who else should you believe God's word as a person or a message received fron an angel? because I can see you agree with all his statement. Maybe you didn't see it sha?

Beside anyone can intepret the Bible the way they like (as you and you brethen usaully do).

Let's see a little statement from Brother Paul himself.

2 Cor 2:17 "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."

1 Cor 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

1 Cor 1:14 "If any man think himself to be a prophet,or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord."

Gal 1:12 "For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

1 Thess 2:4 "But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts."

Even Jesus said in John16:12-14 "12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive ofmine, and shall shew it unto you."

So Paul's teaching and Jesus' teaching are the same.

Lastly, Brother Paul read and understood this OT curse if not he won't continue to write and the Jews won't have chosen all his epistles.
Ezekiel 13:8 "Therefore thus saith the Lord God; 'Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord God."

So help me tell Brother Femi that I read my Bible daily I'm not part of the people who depends on what Pastor says only.

Shalom!

mahdino: Sorry I am not leaving out anything nor am I cherry picking,

Hmmm, really you don't cherry pick indeed.

I always analyse and back it with the bible,

All your Bible quote is upside down man.

Why don't u find out u why Jesus will tell u to go away from him?

because their work is full of iniquity not because they called Him Lord, Lord...mahdino the wrath of God is coming soon stop what you don't no.

U see that has been the problem, u don't really follow the teachings of Jesus, u follow the teachings of Paul and the church.

Who else will he follow if not Jesus? Hypocrite

Jesus teach and believe in One and Only God(1 in 1)

He is God Himself.

but u believe in Three in One (3 in 1),

Trinity forever!

Jesus said for u to go heaven u have to keep the laws and commandments Matt 5:17-19.

How many time will I correct you on these verses you're quoting all the time?

These are some of the reasons why he will tell u to go away.

Another lies.

Those few that follow Jesus and keep to his teaching will surely reach heaven

I will ask you again, do Mahdino and co also follow Jesus' teaching?

and most people today that follow the teaching of men (many he will tell go away) will not make to heaven.

If not because you're an hypocrite, you will say you're not cherry picking but why did you ignore the last phrase of that verse? Matt 7:21 "...But he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven"
Then I asked you, what is the will of God? You couldn't give a concrete answer.

So u see he has reasons in his second coming to tell u to get away not that I'm cherry picking.

You still repeat your lies version.

There is one thing u need to reason not that every prophet has to use the same words to say it

Their teaching must be the same.

At the time of Noah, Noah is the way to God the truth and the life
At the time of Abraham, Abraham is the way to God the truth and the life.
At the time of Moses, Moses is the way to God the truth and the life.

All these prophet you mention, how many of them live up to 1000years? I ask you in one thread you ran away

At the time of Jesus, Jesus is the way to God the truth and the life.

Jesus said "I'm the way, the truth, and the LIFE, no one cometh to the Father except by me"
All the prophet you mention above get to heaven through Jesus Christ. Inwhich no prophet in the whole world has ever promised such certainty statement.

Mohammad (saw) is the last prophet (comforter, spirit of truth) he is the way to God the truth and the life.

How are you sure is the last prophet? He died over 1000years ago and many prophets of God has risen after him, you can see that you can't compare Jesus with any man because He is the 'Messiah' which all prophets before Him and After Him adore.

He said Abraham rejoiced to see His day, and he(Abraham) saw it, and was glad,John 8:56 likewise Moses, Isaiah, David, Adeboye, Oyedepo, Kumuyi e.t.c. Is a pity that if Muhammad didn't see Jesus' day before He died, Jesus will not know him.

Because people blackmail him and we are trained to hate him is not a reason.

Nobody blackmail Him, it's written black and white in your book.

Truth will always be the truth whether we see it or not it will not change.

Jesus' statement!

See the word of Jesus to you if only you will listen as you claim you believe in Jesus.

John 8:42 "Jesus said unto them, If God was your Father, you would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

If Jesus proceeded out from God (like mahdino proceeded out from his parent) not that Jesus recieved His message through angel. Who should you follow mahdino?


Shalom!

rhymz: The Trinity doctrine is not unique to, nor
original with Christianity. It has deep Pagan roots, dating back to at least two centuries before the birth of Christ, and has been prominent in many Eastern religions ever since. The Roman
Catholic and Orthodox Church Councils (Western and Eastern churches) brought the
Trinity doctrine into Christianity.

Just a one question on quoted part above. When they brought the ideaology of Trinity into Christendom, do they re-write Bible or still the same Bible we seen today?

The simple Trinity is this;

*Father-Is the God Himself.
*Son(word/Jesus)-Is the spoken-word of God Himself.
*Holyspirit-The spirit of God Himself.

These three are one! Both the word(Jesus) and the Holyspirit always have IMAGE of invisible God(Father) in any of their operation.

Jesus Himself comformed Trinity in John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

He used WE (Personal Singular Pronouns), how many people He's talking about?

Also He used OUR (Possesive Adjective), how many people He's also talking about?

Shalom!

mahdino: Pls u tell us what am I twisting? This is simple basic straight forward language.

Is it not you hmmm or na today we don dey talk am?

I know what need you is a Bible teacher that's all.

mahdino: Mee234 pls let's be fair and truthful to ourselves.
Let me ask you a question.
Do the muslims call Jesus lord, lord? NO
Do the Jews call Jesus lord, lord? NO
Do the Hindus call Jesus lord, lord? NO
Do the Christians call Jesus lord, lord? YES
So in his second coming when u go and call him lord lord have we not prophesied in your name and do many mighty works, he will tell u go away from me I don't even know u, u people of iniquity. Matt 7:22.

This is what we're saying, twisting Bible upside down out of ignorant. Only God will save people.

Ask yourself, is this what the Bible really teach?

bilms: Emusan, i repeate, you are wrong.....

You never tell me why?

Their Qur'an tells them a different thing to what your bible tells you.

But on one person, right? If Jesus who was mention in the Bible is the same one mention in Quran, who is right and who is wrong?
I will only agree with you if Quran is talking about another jesus.
But if they're both talking about the same Jesus, is it the book that came after 600years of His event that is right or the one that the eyes witnesses wrote that is right?

So, Should they come forward to tell you that your bible is wrong,

That is what they do, I repeat myself Yes!

would you welcome them and agree that your bible is wrong?

This is the causes of the arguement.


Imagine I don't believe in a pagan god called 'god of Iron' but I want to tell god of Iron worshiper that worshiping your god without Oil is the best.

If no, why do you expect them to accept what ever your bible tells you which according to their Qur'an is wrong?

If they didn't quote from Bible falsefully to support their lie about Jesus whatever they say I'm in support.

You can see where the problem comes.. it is you who fail the tolerant test not them....

No they should stop quoting from Bible or interpret It wrongly just to support their false believe about Jesus.

learn to understand the basics of religion instead of being aggressive and when they return your aggression,

If you know me I believe this your statement won't come out.

you will claim Muslims are intolerant.

How did you know sir?

Salam.

This is another case, I remember when a muslim told me that Jesus greets in Islam way 'salam alleku' just because Jesus said 'peace be unto you' is that not funny? Now because I always end my post with Shalom you too adopted the style....lol


Shalom!

rhymz: really.....so in a way, Jesus Christ is God himself, right?

You're right.

God in his younger form I guess..

Never guess God in His own Word.

does this even make sense

Honestly it does, because God is non-contingent being.

Shalom!

Pastor Olu T: Good day bro,
But the bible clearly shows that there are three different personalities, so explain further pls?

They are three from one God not that Holyspirit exists on His own, Jesus(the Word) exists on His own, and the Father exists on His own.

Or the three have different background is the same God who changed His own WORD into flesh John 1:14 and sent out His own Spirit John 15:26 both the Word and the Spirit has the same IMAGE of the invisible Father in any of their operations.

Shalom!

bilms: Even the poster is a Muslim,

And you believe all these saying about Jesus, I'm very sure not all Muslim will agree with you.

so you are wrong to say Muslims don't agree.

Till tomorrow they don't because of its implication on their side.

The problem starts from your wrong notion.

How? For me to say Holyspirit is not Muhammad, or Jesus is the Only begotten Son of The Father, or Jesus died and resurrected.

Please kindly tell me my wrong notion?

Shalom!

bilms: Emusan,

I reply you because of this!

it is you who is wrong not them.

How?

You have no right what so ever to tell Muslims that there believe is wrong,

Imagine, why don't I have right? When my Bible tells me Jesus was crucified, He is the only begotten Son of God, He resurrected from death and He still alive today. And someone who doesn't believe on Jesus says all these are wrong because his/her book didn't say so.

just as they have no right to tell you that yours is wrong.

That's what they do which leads to this your thread.

So the problem is you not them.

How?



Shalom!

bizmahn: Trinity can simply be likened to a PERFECT SCENARIO husband & wife relationship.The two become one yet they are seperate personalities & the husband is the head. In the trinity three are one in PERFECT UNITY,PURITY,PURPOSE etc but they are three distinct personalities & the father is the head.If trinity is not the name you prefer for this, give it another worthy name & its all the same thing.

The major misconception in Trinity is the @bolded part above.

Trinity isn't a three seperate Beings but one Being.

*Jesus is the Spoken-word of God
* Holyspirit is the Spirit of God Himself

As human being has spirit and word in himself which represents them anywhere anytime.

Well when you're talking about Holy unity' you're still referring to Trinity because Trinity was derived from these words Tri-u-nity

Tri-signfices Three, any figure that has three bounded side can be regarded as one straight line when it being cut anywhere.

That's the mystery of Trinity.