₦airaland Forum

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I didn't know how I skipped this your statement, I just sighted it now.

Frank4YAHWEH: When Yahshua said "Before Abraham was, I am.", he was speaking of his pre-eminence to Abraham.

This is what I call pure lies. Hmmm!

He was answering their question "Are you greater than our father Abraham." They most certainly did not like his answer in making it known that he was greater than Abraham!

See what cause the question and His reply to their question;

John 8:51-59 "51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Now! Key point from 51-59:

*Jesus said no death for anyone who kept is words.
*They said Jesus hath devil
*Are you greater than our Father Abraham?

Jesus answers is very clear here:

from verse 56-58, NOTE: added word in black color

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced (rejoiced-past tense) to see my day: and he saw it, (saw-past tense) and was glad. The past tense indicates that the action was happened in the past not a FUTURE tense. This action might happen either when Abraham was on earth or after his death.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

How will Abraham saw Jesus' day when Jesus didn't pre-exist His brith?

If Abraham was born before Jesus, why Jesus make such statement "before Abraham was, I Am"?

Jesus Himself asked people question about His pre-existence, John 6:62 "...see the son of man ascend to where He was before?"

John the baptist also testify of His pre-existence in two different occasions: John 1:15 "John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me."

Also; John 1:30 "This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me."

Did John also speak in figurative here? He made it clear that Jesus was before him but John was born before Jesus.

Shalom!

mahdino: Emusan, u see what ever I tell u or explain to u, its only when u reason with good heart and seek for the truth.

Which truth? When Jesus said He is the way, The TRUTH, and the life. I can't just stop laughing.....

The teaching you're following never promise such thing as above true or false?

U have already rule out Islam and u are made to understand that it is a wrong religion,

So far now Man that has ever passed through the surface of this earth and make such statement with certainty, which I've confirmed....well anybody's teaching is false!!! Beside I don't practice religion Jesus Christ is never a religious person.

in that kind of situation u can never get it right.

I'm only try to let you see the light I'm not promoting Christ or religion, so is you choice afterall we shall all stand before Christ on judgement day parent won't stand for their children, brother won't stand for brothers e.t.c

Well all that I have been preaching to u is not from the quran but from what u believe the bible

You're right but not what the Bible says that you're preaching.

reaching an extent that I analyse what Jesus says emphasizing on it,

You and your brethens have been twisting the word of God not what It really means.

but still u argue and call me names,

Please what name did I call you?
I argue because you misinterprete the Bible to suit yourself and your believe.

u are a pratical testimony to what Jesus said "Seeing they see not hearing they hear not neither do they understand"

Well thanks for that but how I wish you could reason who the statement above is referring to?

people believe in what they want to believe. U said u asked me thy will of God? The will of the father is to worship him so we can all attain success in this life and next.

How can you worship the Father?

This is my point of replying your post since all this while because it's unclear point you need Jesus for. The will of God is not to attain success if that's your burden. God's will is for us to be free from death and have a perfect life, where there'll be no more sorrow, sickness, disaster(which it calls RECONCILLATION--God reconciles us to Himself through is only begotten Son Jesus "there's no other names given to man under the sun to save than Jesus' name)...this is where SALVATION play the vital role. The question I will ask you now is, how can someone obtain salvation?

Do u know Jesus said I speak not my own will but the will of the father that sent me,

Yea, that's the major reason you shouldn't believe another teaching except Jesus' teaching because He came from God, He didn't receive message from angel or anybody.

so definately when he said verily, verily i said unto u except u righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the u can by no means enter the kingdom of God.

He also said those that believe in Him will not pearch but have everlasting LIFE. Which I'm pleading you to seak and forget religion issue.

That is the will of God and salvation,

No read Bible very well.

now how can u be better than the Jew if u don't keep the laws and commandments?

The letters killeth but the spirit lives forever...so Jesus has abolished the laws..only if you can ask how?

If keeping the commandments is not salvation

No salvation can be obatined through commandent.

will Jesus emphasize on keeping it,

He didn't read Bible very well.

he said not even a jot should be left out (not even a word should be left out) but know u have thrown away the whole commandments.

Yea, you should've believe Him for this statement.

Are u not wicked for throwing away what Jesus said u should keep?

Well if you think I am no problem but I didn't.

Iniquity indeed u are.

Hmmmm........Thou shall not Judge......


Shalom!

mahdino: Thank God that u know how some people can go agaisnt there religious books, so pls let's not judge Islam by the way some people behave cos as long as we have bad muslims we have bad christians.

Waoooo Mahdino is reason well now.

On a serious note we are not expecting prophet Isa (as) to come and correct or add anything, he is coming to clear himself about the lies been said on him. If u read in the bible Matt: 7:22, when he come in his second coming the christians will go to him saying lord, lord, we have prophesied in ur name and do many mighty works (e.g built schools, hospitals e.t.c) and Jesus will tell them u useless people go away from here I don't even know u.

It's not new the way you & your brethens have been twisting the Word of God, but see the detail of where you quote: Matt 7:20-24 "20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his houseupon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mahdino you're hearing the word of Yeshua but what are you doing about it? I have asked you in one thread but you couldn't give a specific answer, let me ask you again; what is the will of God?

Ask youselves why will he say that to u? Its because u have left his teachings,

See pure lies, it's because their works is full of iniquity.

he said if u want salvation do the laws and the commandments (Matt: 5:17) but someone has come to divert u from the straight path, who is the master?

God will surely have mercy on you, see what the verse you mention above is talking about: Matt 5:17 "17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

how does the above relate to salvation? Hmmmm

Frank4YAHWEH: No you don't! I agree with his being the firstborn of all creation in that he was the firstborn from the dead. You do not!

Being the firstborn of all creation in that because He was the firstborn from dead, does it make any sense to you? Why Jesus is the beginning and the end?

And your wrong! You actually agree with all that I said as follows?:
"This is speaking specifically of him being the first resurrected from the dead, since this is what the word 'resurrection' means, being brought back from being dead. FATHER Yahweh was not brought back from being dead, but it was His SON whom FATHER Yahweh redeemed from being dead."

Well I said I agree because you said Father Yehweh was not the one His blood was sheld but His Son which is the basic of asking you that question.

You do not like my answer?

I agreed as par the above.

Scripture as a whole will decide for me who the rest of this verse is speaking of, not you!

Then how was you taught to be using BASIC ENGLISH in your passage? because you've neglected the principles of English to made this statement. Stop deluding yourself by calling dog a monkey.

Yes, looks like a figureative statement to me!

Now it is "it looks like" Lol....
Just look at the way you yourself was twisting the scriptures. Like I said the whole words of Yeshua will soon be turn to figurative by @Frank.

I object to your false presentation of this verse!

Let me help you again in that my previous analyses,

Colo 1:14-18 "In whom we have redemption through his blood even the forgiveness of sins "Who is the image of the invisible God the firstborn of every creature "For by whom were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth visible and invisible whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers all things were created by whom and for whom "And who is before all things and by whom all things consist "And who is the head of the body the church who is the beginning the firstborn from the dead that in all things who might have the preeminence.

Active Voice:- who/he/Frank threw the ball.

Passive voice:- The ball was thrown by whom/him/Frank.
So the whole verses above was directed to whom/Him/Yeshua

Your question does not even make sense, so how am I supposed to give a consise answer to it?

With my expression above I know the question will make non sense to you because you just don't want to accept the truth.

Frank4YAHWEH: Yes, he is!

I agreed.

And your reason for asking this?

That Jesus is the power of God!

This is speaking specifically of him being the first resurrected from the dead, since this is what the word 'resurrection' means, being brought back from being dead. FATHER Yahweh was not brought back from being dead, but it was His SON whom FATHER Yahweh redeemed from being dead.

Ok! You're right.

No!

No as what, Yehweh or Yeshua?
Remember whosoever you chose is the rest of the verse is talking about, According to Whom=Him & Who=He rules as explained above by this poster

Yahshua also spoke in a figrative sense and in parables (illustrations).

This's the problem you people have, does that verse look like figurative statement or direct statement?

Very soon I know the whole words of Yewhew and Yeshua will be turn to a figurative speech by people who fails to open their heart to the truth.

You don't have any objection to the verse rather you resolted to figurative.

No, people are directed to the truth of what Scripture ACTUALLY SAYS in that Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of FATHER Yahweh and not FATHER Yahweh ["God"] as many deceptively teach.

Just give me a concise answer to my question, of that verse 14, is the blood of Yehweh or Yeshua was sheld for our sins?

God with Us.....Emmanuel....Yeshua

Frank4YAHWEH: Yahshua is the firstborn of all creation from the dead, not first born at the beginning of creation.

He is the first born of All creations.

No, All things were created "because of", on account of' or "for" Yahshua, not "by' and "through" him.

"The worlds was framed by the word of God" can anyone seperate your word from you?

Nowhere in the so-called "New Testament" will you find Yahshua proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING!

He didn't, even when He said before Abraham was, I am. They want to kill Him.

You mean to tell me you set yourself up as knowing the meaning of what Scripture says, but you do not know what Scripture means when it says that Yahshua is the firstborn from the dead? You may know the meaning of your "Church" doctrine, but you definately do not know the meaning of Scripture!

What I need has been explained. Yeshua is the firstborn from dead! Is it He was the first person to died and go to heaven or resurrected?

One need not be a pre-existent being to be the firstborn of all creation to be born from the dead!

Answer my question above!

Where you have it wrong is in who is our Creator.

See @frank oooo oh my God, I simply explained how you twisted the above verse yet you're claiming who is the creator? Yes God is the creator....I will ask you again according to that verse 14" In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"---who His blood was sheld for our sins, Yahweh or Yeshua?.... Know that the person you chose is the rest of the verse was talking about......

It is FATHER Yahweh, not His SON Yahshua. This passage speaks of FATHER Yahweh as our Creator, not His SON!

Is the Father Yahweh's blood was sheld for man's sins?

No, I have not ignored this, since I have been asked about it many times here and have given answer to it.

Yahshua Came Down From Heaven
http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/708052764/yahshua-came-down-from-heaven

I have gone through your site but what you're really talking about is "coming down from heaven as a phrase or figure of speech" which is totally different from what Jesus said in John 6:62 "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?"

NOTICE the phrase "...Where he was before.." (not where He came from) why can't you just open your heart once to accept the truth?

Many people who doesn't read their Bible would have been misleaded through your site.

God help us all!

mahdino: That is why I said islam is pratical. If the Quran said A and any other person or sect said Z you know that it is A that you follow cos it is God's word and cannot be change

Imagine, Mahdino and co always form as if Islam is one.

Follow God's word, if I may ask is it God's word or voice of angel?

Now you're claiming that people say shouldn't be accepted, isn't it in Quran that you should fight for Allah?

but not like the christian where everybody claims to have the spirit which cannot be verified,

This is the major point that Muslims lack, who says Holyspirit can not be verified? Why can't you give it a try?

I also told u that with all the sect why is it that all the muslims in every corner on earth belives in There is only one God and Mohammad (saw) his messenger.

Our God is one! Don't you know that? I know because you're confuse with the issue of Trinity you think some christians claim three Gods.
Well that's your unverified issue, because even coming together of Husband and wife to become one is a mystery for you. Read REVELATION 5 (I won't quote the verse) you will see where SEVEN SPIRITS of GOD was written. Imagine seven spirits(plural) of God(singular).

Keep promoting religion, my dear seek for salvation. No religions in heaven.

Shalom!

Frank4YAHWEH: "FATHER Yahweh's SON is the FIRSTBORN of all creation, not FATHER Yahweh!

You're right! That's what I'm emphasing on, "FIRSTBORN of all creation" this phrase has ended all the argument about Yeshua... How can someone be called FIRSTBORN, if the person doesn't exist before others?

FATHER Yahweh is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM, not His SON Yahshua!

Through Yeshua!

Yahshua is the FIRSTBORN from the dead,

What do you mean by this?

Well, it it is obvious that I did not fail to make known that Yahshua is the firstborn and in turn it is quite obvious that you are a liar!

How can Yeshua claim the FIRSTBORN of all creation, if He doesn't exist before His birth?

FYI, your remarks concerning punctuation are moot, since there is no punctuation in Hebrew and Greek.

Ok I agree with you. But my Whom=Him is right because you ignored it?

By removing all the puntuations mark from verse 14-18, let's see how it goes by replacing 'Whom=Him & Who=He'

Colo 1:14-18 "In whom we have redemption through his blood even the forgiveness of sins "Who is the image of the invisible God the firstborn of every creature "For by whom were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth visible and invisible whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers all things were created by whom and for whom "And who is before all things and by whom all things consist "And who is the head of the body the church who is the beginning the firstborn from the dead that in all things who might have the preeminence.

Where you got it wrong is when you're switching from 'Whom to Who' whereas Whom & Who are referring to the same person.

Who:- is used as the subject of a sentence or phrase, to denote who is doing something (like he or she). While!

Whom:- is used as the object of a verb, to denote who has something done to it (like him or her). While a preposition(at, by, for, in, with, etc.) often comes before "whom", Whom is in form of speaking in a Passive voice not Active voice.

I made mention about Matt 6:62 which says "What and if ye shall see the son of man(Yeshua) ascend up WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?" but you ignored it, why?

Shalom!

We are back again this season....Oh God of Heaven! Give me the grace to watch just up to five matches this season.....amen!



Up UNITED!!!

mahdino: Pls try and study about the spirit of truth Mohammad (saw)

What you or other Muslim may fail to know is this, I'm not promoting personality of Jesus Christ but His earthly purpose even Jesus didn't honour Himself, this is what I understand about Him of recent.

John 5:34 "but I receive not testimony from MAN: but these things I say, that ye MIGHT BE SAVED."

41 "I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

So my dear Mahdino I'm not promoting Christianity but preaching the Gospel of Christ to fulfill His second coming.

Matt 24: 14 "And this gospel of the kindgom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come"

Shalom!

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Timeoutwinds for at least seven days.
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As a constructionist no a single lie in your post. I believe also you're among us!

anshul1: Hi to all in this forum am actually new here and my birth date is march 23 .any one?

Hi new comer, ehyah.....I senior you with just 14days sha...mine is 9th. Lol

mahdino: Bros I don't know why you guys don't want to follow Jesus. Why won't u greet me the way Jesus did? When he came to the upper he said shalom alekum meaning peace be unto u.

Lol...Shalom (Greek-peace) ...alekum(arabic-unto you)....Well Jesus said peace be unto you but not in arabic way....'Alafia fun oo(yoruba version)'...unto you is not alekum in greek.

Why do u have to say what people are saying (in the name of your lord) did Jesus taught u that?

Yes!

That is all we are saying the way he greet, the way he wash his hands, face and feet, the way he fall on his face to pray to God,

As if Mahdino was there! Why can't you pray the way He taught us to pray? Matt 6:9

the way he kept his beards,

Is it the only person? All ancient people did so i.e Abraham, Moses, Noah, all his Desciples, Mohammad e.t.c so you kept your beards like ancient people not like Jesus. Huhmm

the way he said u should keep the commandments, e.t.c that's all we are saying. We are not the anti christ,

Who is anti-christ?

we love Jesus, we respect him and we glorify him.

Love and glorify hmmm in what way you people do these?

Going back to the subject, when Jesus entered the upper room they were scared and u said is because they did not believe it can happen. WRONG.

They were scared because they don't believe He would resurrect from dead because He is the who raised people from dead.

It is because they taught he was a spirit (ressurected body) from the dead, so he had to prove to them that he is the same person ALIVE not dead.

How did He prove Himself to them?

Cos all of his diciples where not eye witness of the scene,they heard from hear say (rumour) that he was dead.

Pure lies, not all at all, they were first scattered when He was arrested but follow Him at behind...read Bible very well.


I will still have time to answer both unanswer question and the answered one with Biblical support.

This day I'm begin to relax on promoting Christianity on this forum simply because tha's not the instruction of our Lord Jesus. Jesus said go ye into the world and preached the good news (salvation).

These facts about Jesus can not be altered by anybody but can only be accepted or disaccepted by anybody

His pre-birth & death prophesies,
His miraculous Birth,
His ministration of Salvations,
His various working of miracles,
His denials by Judas,
His crucifition,
His resurrection,
His ascension into heaven,
And His second coming.

All these are through about Him but can be rejected by anybody.

His blood has been sheld for us to make us clean because "without shelding of blood there's no remission" Heb 9.

Jesus loves you before you love Him.

Image123: Jon 3:3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.

Three day's journey from where?

Jonah was clearly in the fish's belly for three days and three nights. He went nowhere else.

When people die, is it that their body will go to the place of dead with them or only their soul?

I didn't say Jonah did not pray inside the fish. But verse 2 shows the position Jonah was where his dead body is. Jonah 2:2 "And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord (some version use 'distress' meaning what he is passing through at that very moment of time), and he heard me; out of the belly (inside the fish where my body is) of hell (Sheol-in the place of the dead) cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

It's why i likened it to God preparing the fire that Daniel's friends were thrown in, or the lions in the Den that lion was thrown in. They were prepared that is why Daniel and his friends were not hurt.

I didn't claim Jonah was not swallowed by a fish, what he expirenced inside the fish is my main point. Daniel shear his own expirence "God send His angles to seal the Loin's mouth"... like his friends "the appearance of the forth man looks like Son of God". Jonah said he prayed in the belly of hell which is a clear statement.

The words used are pictorial/symbolic.

Here is not pictorial/symbolic/figurative sir.
I will repeat myself, if the word sheol was used a place of dead in OT will Jonah's case different?

Thank God you quoted Revelation. Now from Rev if seas give up its dead, are they alive or still living?

For jonah, he thought it was the end. In Psalms, we see similarly expressions where the psalmist was not even dead.

This is what I'm saying, stop quoting one verse without having the full knowledge of the rest of the verse.

Psalm 18:5 you quoted was written after the deliverance of David from Saul's hand.
Also Psalm 30:3, was written when David dedicate his house, and if you read it from beginnig you will see that David was sick before that time. What David means is just an appreciation that if not for the grace of God, he will have be in the place of dead not a pictorial word. but in the case of Jonah he saw himself there 7"when my soul fainted within me I remember the Lord..."

Lastly, verses 1-2 of chapter 2 is the complete story, why verses 3-7 is an explanations of how it happens. Actually Jonah would've expirenced a lot of things when he was threw inside the sea before the fish swallowed him which he explained in verse 3,5, & 6.

Mr. Image, I may not reply your next post for my personal reasons.

Anything you say I agree whether Jonah died inside the fish or not I'm in total support.

Thanks and God bless you more.

Shallom!

benalvino: sorry about that... but i am asking you how did you know when to switch to the father... and who created the universe through the father? remember By = through.

Imagine maybe he has forgotten he made that statement By=through.

He even capitalised the combine words FIRSTBORN but failed to ask himself, is YAHWEH or Yeshua the firstborn? because Who infront of verse 15 indicates that the person who is the image of invisible God seperated by a coma(,) is also the FIRSTBORN.

Frank4YAHWEH: Who [FATHER Yahweh's SON Yahshua] is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE Mighty One [FATHER Yahweh], the FIRSTBORN of all creation: For by Him (FATHER Yahweh] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him [FATHER Yahweh], and for Him [FATHER Yahweh]: And He [FATHER Yahweh] is before all things, and by Him [FATHER Yahweh] all things are held together. And he [Yahshua] is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

This is how you will know you're twisting Bible.

If you want to know how to use Whom & Who simply put

Him=Whom
He=Who, with this you will know the approprate one to use.

Verse 14 "In WHOM(Him), we have redemption through his blood, even the forgivness of our sins:"
Now! This verse made it clear that the rest of statement in the other verses was listed to this same person.

Reasons being that a colon(: ) ended this verse. Where can we use colon? We use colon [b]to introduce a list and use it only after a full sentence which ends in a noun.
Verse 15-17 is a list of verse 14.

Is it through the blood of YAWHEW that will have redemption for our sins or Yeshua?
because you've replaced Him for God in the rest of that chapter.

Keep deluding yourself.

Last token, John 6:62 "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he(Jesus) was before?

This is Jesus' statement not emusan.

Shalom!

Frank4YAHWEH: Colossians 1:16 is in reference to FATHER Yahweh and not to His SON Yahshua.

@Frank please & please and enough is enough just hold your peace about pre-existence of Yeshua. With a plain verses like that Col 1:14-18 you can still come and say the above.

God have mercy!

I remember this wonderful name of Yeshau...Immanuel.....God with Us......

mahdino: @ Emusan bro peace be upon u.

Dear Mahdino, may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

Going back to the subject, I want u to know that apart from the sign of Jonah there are many other facts and testimonies in the bible that Jesus did not die

Ok Sir,

if only you will come out of that box the church has been preaching and see deep beyond what u are programme to believe.

It's too odd of you to say this, have you ever see me quote people's word outside the Bible? I always give you my own interpretation.

Why were the diciples terified (afraid) when Jesus came to the upper room?

Simply because they didn't believe it can happen.

Why did Jesus had to prove himself to them that he was the same fellow ALIVE not a spirit or resurrected body?

To strenghten their believe Jesus also shows them the point of the NAILS holes at His legs and hands for real comfermento.

Why did Jesus pray to the father that he should not let him die

He only said if Father will wish and let the cup pass over Him: Nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt. and it's the will of the Father that prevaileth.

and why did the father answered his prayers sent angels to guarranty him and prophesied his answered prayers in Hebrew 5:7?

I will attend to this when I get home, show me where God send angels to him?

Hmmmm, anyway I know the first paragraph of this thread is about me. The thread I opened, what was the outcome?

I only have some verses to shear with you, I preach Christ as Christ has commanded us, I'm not a pastor but believer in Christ with a lot of evidence.

2 Corin 2:17 "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."

So I will never never hid or search web because of Bible, Bible is not a science books that you need people's knowledge to understand but a spiritual book which need a spiritual descernment to understand.

Lastly, Bible(God) allow everyone to make use of His word as he/she likes. With the help of Holyspirit/without Holyspirit.

As a result of this, secular interpretaion view has made many people to put their own meaning into it.

1 Corin 3:10-15 "10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If the person's work is burnt by fire he/she shall be saved(because he/she believes in Jesus) but he/she will suffer for it.

So Bible is a book you can make It say whatever you want It to say.

Shalom!

Frank4YAHWEH: Reason #1. Heb 1:2a reveals Yahshua to be the heir of what was created.

Reason #2. More than 100 Scriptures show it was Yahweh (not Yahshua) who created the heavens and the earth. Heb. 1:2 must agree with the 100 other Scriptures. For a list of these [ask for] our paper, "Who Is the Creator?" ( http://www.halleluyah.org/ContactUs.html ).

For these reasons, the sentence in Heb. 1:2b must have
originally read like the Diaglott reads today, Yahweh "... in the last of these days spoke to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, ON ACCOUNT OF whom also he constituted the ages; ..."

Another acceptable translation would be, "... a Son, FOR whom he created the world."

Many times the King James Version as well as more modern versions translate dia as "for," "because of," "therefore" [meaning "for this reason"]. For a more detailed layout of the word di' (dia), [see] for our [study], "Hebrews 1:2 - Berry." ( http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/759287296/hebrews-12 0.

This is not to say the the King's Men purposely mistranslated, nor is this to say they were dishonest. Not at all. On the contrary, they no doubt delivered what they believed to be the correct translation of Heb. 1:2. We must realize, however, that all of the King's Men believed the doctrine of the Trinity (one is three, and three are one). Believing this, they saw no contradiction between this Scripture (as they translated it) and the 100 Scriptures which show that Yahweh the Father is truly and personally the Creator of the heaven and earth.
Excerpt from: http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html

Keep browsing internet when you can implore what is more knowledgable than any man 'the Holyspirit'.


John 12:28 "Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."

1st @bold-Jesus said God should glorified 'His name'.

2nd@bold-I have both glorified it, and wiil glorify it again'

How did God glorify His name again?

Phil 2:9 "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:"

Ask Holyspirit for Bible's understanding Bro. Stop searching internet, Bible is not a science books, it's a spiritual book that need spiritual descernment to understand.

lanrexlan: some attributes given to God in the bible are very absurd to the Creator.

By who?
Remember is the God's own word, don't quote God's word only without attending to the question, by who?

We are worshipping the same God only if christians don't believe in the godhead and trinity.

Yet you acused Christian God committed those atrocity list by you and supported by your brethens, why can't you say 'OUR GOD'.

I know why you conclude this way because you are coming again to claim that Bible support the coming of Muhammad....very confuse of you and you should be ashamed of your previous post with this of one.

lanrexlan: Your ignorance is very pathetic,I am not yet to reply a goon.

Your own is what? Op asked a simple question but all what you do is ranting unnecessarily. Is Christian and Muslim serving the same God very simple question? Why are you perambulating like Jay Jay Okocha?

Ayomivic: why not end your post by saying that, we are not worshiping the same God?

My thought excertly!

@Op, this is the most confuse question of highest order in religion section be it in Islam for Muslim or here simply because our brethens are in a state of chaotic.

@Lanrexlan did well in his post unlike some people I know only that he still find it hard to come to conclusion either Yes or No!

If @mahdino should answer he will hide this truth of @lanre and claim he believes in Jesus but ignore this statement by Jesus 2 John 1:9 "9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." just to claim that Bible support their Master.

If @Udatso should answer, he will clearly confirm and says Yes! But he believes Bible contradict, Jesus didn't die, and also believe Bible is not the word of God, Only to justify the coming of their master.

If @RoyPcain should answer, infact it's another dimension entirely, he will say Yes! Just to claim Bible support the coming of their Master but believes Jesus is a rude Son to His mother, Bible is not complete(he only pick special verse that favour him in the Bible), Jesus is a Son of man.

If @Ayeni02 should answer, infact he is the most confused brethen I ever known on NL, he has created many threads inwhich himself get confused after he has claimed that Jesus prophesied the coming of Muhammad, but later comes to conclusion that Bible is so contradict and it can't be the word of God.

If @maclatunji should answer, many hidden post will appear.

My brethens are so confused to the extent that they don't know the part they should support in the Bible either Old Testament or New Testament.

*They claim Bible contradict
*They claim Bible is not the word of God, it fulls of Narrator's voice but the only part that support their claim is free from narrator's voice.
*They claim Jesus didn't die even when Jesus says He will die but believe Jesus when He said He will send their master.
*They claim all the apostles were wrong to claim Jesus died but believe those apostles were right in their statement of coming of Muhammad......and many more...

All are about confusion!

Those that are very open-minded believe we're not serving the same God. Those who hides under prejudice keep saying we are serving the same God and God can't lie. But the major problem they have is, if God can't lie and we're serving the same God; why do they not believe God when He said: "This is my beloved Son hear Him"?

Anyway we're serving the same God because God still loves everyone who comes to Him through His only begotten Son.
Shalom!

If not Christ it cannot be Christ, it is only Him that can change anybody's heart being Atheist, Pagan, Hirekiller, or whatever.

Now everywhere on internet, I join heaven to rejoice because a soul has won again. May God mercy sustain him till the end In Jesus Name (also me).

Emmanuel!!!

Frank4YAHWEH: Yahshua had to be a man just like us in having the same origin. Yahshua did not originate as "God" and pre-exist his birth as an actual being and neither did we!

Just because you want to prove Trinity wrong you can open your mouth and spew this statement?

God Himself will have mercy on us.

John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

If Jesus can say He had glory with God before the world begins, does He pre-exist His birth or not?

Just let us be careful the way we handle the word of God.

Shalom!

demola21: oga okey, nawa 4 u oh! Where in the scripture is that found? When Jesus disciples ask Him to show them the Father, he said he who has seen me has seen the Father. So u are telling me that if me and u agree on an issue, u and me are 1?

What is killing the read message of the Bible today is the philosophy of world views which people have incorporated into Bible, that's why we see different interpretations to scripture based on secular mindset.

TUMIC: I'm not religious but I'll give it a shot - it wouldn't happen.

You're right!

According to the Bible the future's already written and that version of the future doesn't involve a twist ending in which Satan repents.

You're also right! But one thing left, in essence that if a sinner recognises that he/she is a sinner then wide open door of repentance can be predicted even if he/she didn't repent at that particular time.

But I think it would be an interesting twist in the story, maybe Satan repents get's right with God but its all a ruse to stab God in the back, then Satan wins ... good strategy.

Maybe!

The question is what would happen to all that evil?

They will still get their reward of being evil.

You see one of my main problems with the Bible is it does nothing to explain where evil comes from, its just says something about sin being found in Lucifer and all of a sudden he turns evil in an otherwise righteous Universe (doesn't make much sense). So maybe after he repents the evil breaks off and looks for a new host like the symbiote from Spider-Man.

If you read Bible very well you will know where evil comes from.

All heavenly bodies they have their own power given by God, after the fall of Adam when God came to visit them...and Adam said "I heard your voice God but I hid myself because I'm unclad"...God then asked "who told you that you're nake.d?" He said is the woman you gave me, she the one who gave my the forbiden fruit....then God asked the woman, why did you do this?....the woman answered....is was devil that beguiled me....but to devil no one to put the blame on meaning Devil's fall is self will which Bible says "Devil make himself proud to raise his throne above God" and all things opposite truth is from Devil.

I only have few things to say here, what has been hid in God for so long but through the help of the Holyspirit it has been revealed.

Majority of Christians don't even know who Jesus really is.

In Heb 11:3 "Through faith we understand that the worlds(Universe) were framed by the word of God,..."

@bold-this phrase appear "by the word of God"

In Ephe 3:9 "...which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

@bold-this phrase appear "who created all things by Jesus Christ"

From these two verses no arguement that Jesus was the word of God that created everything.

Now John couldn't make the mistake when he wrote John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Now who is Jesus Christ?
When Angel visit Mary, the Angel told Mary that Holyspirit(God) will visit her, (Note: people like Sarah, Annal, Elizabeth was given a message by Angel that they will conciev but through sperma-their husband) but incase of Mary is not like that God Himself will visit her. If God visit Mary what will God do? He will only speak a word because in Heb 11:3 ".....so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear-by the Word of God" when God speaks new thing will happen.

Incase of Jesus God spake and thing we seen(Jesus) was not made from thing will know(sperma) no wonder John said John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh,...."

Jesus is the word of God(that is, the word that is coming out from God) that's why Jesus said "I and my father are one" Nobody can seperate your word from you and your word is also you. John 1:1.

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God simply because the WORD is the first thing that was first created in the creations account "...And God said (word came out)..." so Jesus will continue to remain only begotten Son as God will continue to speak.

Why Jesus said "My Father is greater than I" the simple answer is if God didn't speak, word will not come out...but their one.

John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
@bold-What is the glory that Jesus had with the Father before the world was? God exalted His own WORD(Jesus) through creations.

John 16:27 "For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God."
After Jesus made this statement His desciples then know that "...He came forth from God-John 16:29"
Jesus was part of God himself which can not be seperated 'The WORD of GOD'.

Severally in account books of Jesus, He said before His death that "I go to my Father..." inwhich no prophet has ever claimed, but why? Just because He's the WORD of God and He's retuning back to God.

Finally, God is non-contingence being He can do as He likes.....He change His own word to human's nature....and created the universe by His word(Jesus Christ).

We need the Help of the Holyghost to understand Bible because "This is the mystery which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy Apostles and prophets by [Holy] spirit; Ephe 3:5 this mystery also has been hid in God from the beginning of the world Ephe 3:9. No wonder why, people of ages was so confuse about God...David said "the Lord said to my Lord..."Lol.

Shalom!

RoyPcain: you said God is not a man. This i agree with you. So Jesus son of Mary, a man appointed by God is not God, for God will not appoint God or will not be a man as you just said, above.

how is the Jesus you said was crucified and died of crucifixion not a man? you see that you have just told us a little truth,above previously and here you are telling us a whole ball of lies?

The issue of one husband and one wife coming together to become one is still a mystery to you. Jesus as God is also a mystery to you.

i am open minded but i am not absent minded. i know that God is not a man or son of man. I know God does not suffer or can be suffered or dies or can be killed or hung.

Personal believe.

when you buy a bowl of fresh black-eye peas [beans], you look through it, removing stones and other foreign substances and then you wash it clean. the pure and clean black eye peas is what you cook. thats what i have done to the bible, using Quran as the "control".

You buy it and it belongs to you but incase of Bible & Quran it's a set standard which need not to be filtered. Take it the way owner uses it. The reason you're typing all these counless words is to prove that what is inside Quran is real. Now if I quote a verse in your Quran and I said, this is what I/we believe it means not according to what you/Muslims believe it to be, that makes me an hypocrite because I try to make it suit myself. Initial I don't argue with any Muslim I started about few months ago when I saw the way they twisted the Bible to suit themself. 'Though Bible is a book that you can make it says whatsoever you want it to say'

God cant reconciled the whole world of several nations to Himself,

Hope you understand the story of IBRAHIM in Quran very well?

though He alone created and fashion us to perfection, but must die in the hands of Jews who hated you and I calling us gentiles, a word meaning less than human; they being the humans?

Well not only Jews that did it, all blacks(African) a inferiors to white before but thank God for civilisation.

you seem to be on an inferiority complex at the jews, who are now not jews, but buhhdists and even atheists in beliefs.

What concern me with their believe Jesus Himself said it, so it's not new.

how did God reconcile Adam and Eve to Himself, or He didnt? give me an idea and please not the "by faith they believed in Jesus", because there is no evidence of that kinda proposition in the OT or from the lips of Jesus. Please leave Paul out of this argument.

Why should I exclude Paul?
Adam and Eve was reconcilled by Jesus once their human being. It is also a mystery which you might not understand.

Didnt you just argue that Jesus was not a man? What is son of man, except a man or do goat deliver wolve that will devour it, and if not is it possible for Mary to deliver Who created her?

Yes Jesus is not a man. John 1:14 "And the word became flesh..."
the question you should ask yourself is, whose word?

[quote]and you think the above made him God because he is the light of his generation? you think God left mankind in darkness before Jesus?

Only if you understand those verse. Moses is not the light of his generation he's just a prophet of God. Note that!

Its Mary, my mama is her name sake that prevailed here and it is rude for a child to say 'woman' about his mother. You can say that is not offensive.

Is not offense it's bocs you have a bias mind about Jesus that make it looks offensive to you.

God did it first. humans are doing it now without se.x or sper.m when you clone.

Clone can never happen inside a womans womb. Note that! Without se.x but in a womb sper.m must involve and operation to deliver.

Adam who didnt have father or mother and was never a baby or Lady Eve who was a grown woman from the moment of being alive?

very simple question is had to answer, are they also a sons of man?

from the bible, the holy spirit does not have God quality, just like Jesus does not have God quality,

Please quote those verses!

from the Quran, the book i believe in holy spirit is malaika Jibril [as], servant of God.

If you read Bible you will know that Holyspirit is God Himself.

Now, is God a being like human's or A Spirit?

You misunderstood me, I said thank God you used HIM for Holyspirit.

Too much typing since moring!!!

mahdino: Who is Maclatunji?

Pretending as if he doesn't know the guy.

RoyPCain: @jpiliya;

bible - Why did Jesus protest before performing his first miracle ...
christianity.stackexchange.com/.../why-did-jesus-protest-before-perform

you seemed to have missed verse 5 that it was his mother who prevailed over him that made him do what you said he did. .

and it was not voluntary that he did it but mom's persistence won the day. you need to reflect abit.

See another dimension "Jesus protest" I how you understand the meaning of protest?

"His mother saith unto the servants, whatsoever he saith unto you, do it" the statement here is very clear as simple as ABC, should I call this ignoramus or what?

Roy do whatever Jpiliya ask you to do...from emusan.....simply because emusan knows what Jpiliya can do.
Does it mean I force Jpiliya just because I know his capability?

It's better you stop sub internet for Bible interpretation it redicules you alot about Bible.