₦airaland Forum

-

mahdino: Emusan the words from "the belly of sheol".

It means what?

U know i won't be suprised one day there would be a version that will remove the word belly and say Jonah was dead and in hell when he prayed to suit their believe that Jesus too was dead.

Well you may find that but not from me go through all my post in NL I usually quote from KING JAMES VERSION.

Going back to the discussion from the belly of sheol does not mean grave or hell.

It means what? this is what I call great hypocrite. twisting the truth to justify self claim.

You have to use your God given intelligence.

That's what I'm using on this thread to reply you and your brethen.

All what Jesus was pointing out was a sign (miracle) if Jonah was dead then there is no miracle in the scene.

Great one from mahdino coming back to life from dead position is not a miracle..hmmmmm anyway not only you do that you've collegues.

The miracle is from deep soffocation and heat (now that is real hell) in the belly of the whale u cried out for help.

Then what happen as Jonah was soffocated at the belly of the fish for three days? Remember soffocation means lack of AIR.

From the belly of sheol is a figure of speech describing that when one is under heat and suffocation it real hell to anyone in that kind of sittuation.

Lol.. now the belly of fish become figure of speech to mahdino does it make any sense? when Jonah himself decleared "out of the belly of hell cried I" and where the word of HELL translated from is Sheol used throughout in the OT as GRAVE 'a place of the dead'.

Can't u see that the words were together "belly of sheol".

I see dear but only if you can also see that the BELLY represent where the SHEOL happened.

Is HELL located in the belly of a fish.

I believe you're not mixing it up for the translation of 'LAKE OF FIRE' in the New Tesatment?
This is what you missed anywhere you see the word HELL in the Old Testament it means GRAVE a place of the dead....is it clear now?

NO the condition there is not plesant so it is hell.

Mahdino can you define or tell me the meaning of HELL?

When I say u are in deep shit or from frying pan to fire I don't mean u are in fire.

You're right but what if I now tell you in my own language that yesterday I was in a deep of shit, and you later find out that what I mean with my deep of shit is I was very hungry. will you call it figurative or real expirence?

Pls read the bible with the centextual meaning ther is no need because u want to claim Jonah is dead then we start to translate words to suite us. The only miracle was for a man to be dead in deep shit and he did not die thereby ALIVE

See Mahdino telling me to read Bible with contextual mind, how do you read your own Bible?

Lol..therefore ALIVE....hmmm


Ok if you didn't take that verse 2 as Jonah died, let see the rest of the verse and know who is reading with contextual mind or not.


Jonah 2:3-7 3 For You cast me into the deep, Into the heart of the seas, And the floods surrounded me; All Your billows and Your waves passed over me.

This verse talks about how GOd dealt with him(Jonah).

4 Then I said, ‘I have been cast out of Your sight; Yet I will look again toward Your holy temple.

5 The waters surrounded me, even to my soul; The deep closed around me; Weeds were wrapped around my head.

@bold notice the phrase "even to my soul" what does it mean to you?

6 I went down to the moorings of the mountains; The earth with its bars closed behind me forever; Yet You have brought up my life from the pit, O Lord, my God.
The whole of this verse cancel all your argument if only you can open your heart on it.
see "earth compassed him" have you ever heard that the place of the dead are at the centre of the earth? find it out.

7 “When my soul fainted within me, I remembered the Lord; And my prayer went up to You, Into Your holy temple.

This last verse killeth it all...at this phrase @bold "when my soul fainted within me,..." Here, he didn't say my soul is fainting (continous tense) or my soul is about to faint (Unlike assumptions made by @Udatso above) but my soul fainted (past tense)-which means it happened before Jonah prayed "and my prayer went up to you.

Tell yourself the truth with these declearations from Jonah himself, did Jonah die or not?

Shalom!

I'll be so happy if this can strickly be taken into Nigeria's law.

I hate seeing women being maltreated.

mahdino: Brother how are u doing, I hope fine?

I'm fine by God's grace and you?

I have been very busy. Just checked in for some mins.

Eayahhhh, hope isn't too hectic?

I saw wher u said that u asked me why should life body be but in a tomb cos is like a grave.

No isn't like a grave, it is a grave indeed.

I did not know u don't know how the tomb of Jesus is.

I know a, it a sepulchre

The tomb is not like the grave because is a big roomy chamber belonging Joseph of Arimathe a very rich influential Jew who can afford to cutve out of a rock 5ft wide,7ft high 15ft deep with a vegetable around one can stay there comfortably without dying.

Once you believe the scripture about Joseph an Arimathaea then you should also believe it these:
Matt 27:64-66 "Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away,and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.
65 Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can.
66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.

In verse 66 it was even the pharisees that employed those guards.

And with the discriptions of the Bible it shows that the sepuchre was far to the main city.

Udatso, has taken time to explain to u like a teacher and a school child, but u still go ahead to say that he has not got the spirit,

Is it by twisting HELL(sheol) the place of the dead to another thing? Remember you ask me to prove to you ealier why the Jesus' statement was not the same as Jonah's miracle. When I finally show it udatso begin to twist the word sheol. You also you can't get hebrew dictionary of King James version to see the real meaning of Hell used in the Old Testament. If you or udatso present this from either of the two and is different I will welcom your point.

then who has got the spirit among the christiandom all the churches and denomination are going in different direction and still claim they have the spirit.

Many mystery about God, Jesus, and Christian is over the world today but see what the Bible says;

1 Corin 3:10-13 10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

So the foundation has been laid even for people that misinterpreted the Bible and every man's work shall be tested by fire.
2Corin 2:17 "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."

What is the spirit doing to u that u can't understand simple explanations?

Just provide me with the real meaning of sheol from hebrew dictionary or KJ Bible dictionary if you truely know that God hates lie.

RoyPCain: @Emusan; Thank God your name is not Emasuen.

what does the above connote?

your response to me lean so much on what John said in the Gospel, rather than what Jesus could possibly have said.

Which one is Jesus' word and John's word?

The same John's word you used to claimed the coming of your master, don't forget.

No God worships God. Anyone that worships God is not God.

Meaning what?

It is impossible to believe that se.xual intercourse is sinful

Get it right is not a sin but every seed it produced is corrupt because of the first Man (Adam)

and God decided to create almost all of us through it,

You're right!

except Adam, Eve and Jesus.

Correct.

Yet Eve, the woman is blamed for all the sins in the Bible; meaning the first sin.

Pure lies, Bible made it clear that by one man(Adam) sin entered into the world because of DISOBEDIENT Rom 5:12-21

All blames was put upon Adam because Adam was able to cordinate his home but he didn't that's why God ask Adam first before Eve and Adam's curse was more than that of Eve.

I see that you think Jesus is not sinful because no se.xual intercourse happened, though Mary was over shadowed and came upon in power.

He didn't sin at all until when He carried you and I sins as a result of Adam's disobedient on the cross, and plenty verses in the Bible supported His sinless life.

Are you familiar that many children are born now without sex.ual intercourse?

You miss it by thinking I against intercourse. Yes ofcourse but man's fluid must involve that's why same sexmarriage can't produce any child.

are they not sinless if this is your reason for being sinless?

Will man's fluid involve or not?

If Jesus was in the womb of the 'woman' but Adam was not in the womb of the woman and not a woman, yet you think he is sinful,

Gen 1:31 "And God saw every thing that He made, and, behold, it was very good......"
According to the Bible every thing God created from begin was perfect including Adam and Eve untill the disobedient of Adam. In the book of Romans 8:22-23 shows us how the whole universe surfer from the sin of Adam until now. Adam and Eve was perfect in their creation but polluted due to their disobedient.

how can you not say biblical Jesus is sinful

Because He(Jesus) was not of this world.

with him going against the rule not to call anyone fool,

Is that not a good rule?

his cursing of people of his tribe, including insulting his disciples, his downgrading other tribes,

Show me the verse in the Bible where all these things were written.

his asking God he was forsaken?

Yes! because he bore the sin of the whole world and God's eyes couldn't behold iniquity.

what about his rudeness to his mother and why should anyone knowing his fate be begging when he knows it already?

Show me the verse. @bold whose fate? Clearify yourself sir.

Whoever God rejects his supplication can not to be assumed sinless or had the attention of God. God was not listening to him, it means.

Wrong conception, Jesus didn't supplicate on the cross(unless the time He prayed for those crucified Hiam--what a lovely person) He only asked why God has to took His face of Him because before a saint die he/she must see God but Jesus on the other hand carry the sin of the world which won't allow God to show Him His face and what happen at the cross shows how God hate sin, to the extent of forsaken His own begotten Son.

the Creator does not need power from any to create.

Who dare to withstand God's power? Omnipotent God.

Remember when the Bible says God says lets Us create man? no one answered because He was announcing His intention to the angels. Jesus was not there, the reason he did not say a word. The true statement of God is that "I Am going to create man for the earth".

I like this your cook up story, the same Bible says "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word is God"....verse 3 All things were made by Him....verse 14 and the word was made flesh(Jesus) so Jesus is the one who created everything.

Adam does not look like God and nothing of God is in our father Adam [as] except what created to put in him; the soul which is the spirit of man.

How did you know that, did you pause time and travel to beginning? Anyway you're right but the IMAGE simply means In wisdom, knowledge, and understanding but in a finite one so that's why human being are distinct from animals.

I was ban without any offence for my post above, I would've replied your post.

udatso: please refer to the link to see other meanings of sheol beside grave and the verses.

The best place to see the true meaning of the word SHEOL is King James Bible-KJ was original tranlation of Bible's word. Get a King James open the back and check Bible Dictionatry you'll see the real meaning of HELL there not what people have interpreted to suit their selfish interest. And if you search this on google "meaning of Sheol in hebrew or get Hebrew dictiontionary" I believe you will see the real answer rather than someone's interpretation (only if you're seaking for the truth sha)

So my dear esan, its up to you to chose one and ignore the other, either way, its a diificult choice to make. No mata how hard you try, if you prove shoel to mean he died, then what happens to the other verse where he prayed while he was silt alive

All the prayers of Jonah was rendered in HELL He never alive. Even in a norm-sense is it possible for a man to pass through such conditions and still alive? Most Sceptic have used Jonah's story to counter Bible for unscientific accuracy that it's not possible for Jonah to survive they concluded it's a cook up story without study and understand the real message in that Book. Though some Christians Elders accept that Jonah was alive in the belly of fish when people are not well familiar with Hebrew Dictionary. but with the help of hebrew dictionary and Holyspirit Bible begins to get clearer to people.

atleast eben knew when to back off with dignity than trying to turn a spade into shovel

When you and your co keep perambulating in one place he rest is case not because of what you think.

i invite you to islam the only faith accepted in the sight of Allah. I leave you with the saying of Allah: And say: Truth hath come and falsehood
hath vanished away. Lo! falsehood is ever
bound to vanish. Quran 17::81

Well you're welcome Mr. Udatso but Jesus who has found my life, Who I can feel His presence of being alive through Holyspirit, who speak with me everyday can't allow that.

Jesus is still alive I can testify and boast on that with the help of the HOLYGHOST.

Shalom!

udatso: emusan..why are you behaving like this....i made two points about sheol and jonahs prayer while his life was 'ebbing away'..u only responded to sheol..so i take it you have no reply for the other one

The sheol and Jonah's point are the same that's why I answered that way.

so you have to believe that he was alive while in the belly of the great fish

No! He wasn't alive get your fact from Jonah's statement "out of the belly of HELL cried I"

What is Hell? Hell(sheol) is place of dead used throughtout the OT.

i am the one asking you to believe me but believe your bible....giving meanings to the bible is something i wont do....if you observed my links i gave where all from bible commentaries online....it wasnnt done by muslims, it was done by christians who are scholars of the bible

I know but grave in hebrew used in Old Testament through out was translated from the word Sheol meaning a place of dead no other meaning. You know some bodies have interpret Bible to suit their selfish interest that's why I don't quote any word partent to Bible from web I use Bible as Spirit leadth.

now back to sheol....if i gave you my own bible dictionary here with the page number, you would call me a liar..so i gave you something online and you still wont believe....what type of person are you...?

Well bring it up but any where you found Sheol in the OT refers to a place of dead.

Sheol is found in the Bible sixty-five times. It
is translated “the pit” three times, “the
grave” thirty-one times, and “hell” thirty-one times. Hades is used eleven times, being rendered “hell” ten times and “grave” once.
Adding to the confusion is that two other words are also translated hell in the New
Testament. These are Tartarus, which is found once and Gehenna, which is used twelve times.
The simple way to solve this objection is to examine the use of the word "hell" throughout the Bible. In the Old Testament,
"hell" is always translated from the Hebrew word sheol, which means simply "the unseen state.”

The unseen state? Is a liar Mr Udatso. No other meaning to sheol used in OT than place of the dead.

We read, "Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his
God out of the fish's belly. . . . out of the belly of hell [sheol] cried I" Jonah 2:1-2.

"Out of the belly of (the dead) sheol cried I" no other translation.

It would be difficult to imagine anything akin to fire
in connection with a cold sea monster.

This is where you miss it, I said throughout the OT sheol(HELL) was used as place of the dead not a burning fire. Hmmmm!

The marginal reading of this text gives "the grave" as the translation of hell, or sheol.
Sheol is very frequently translated "grave." Both good and bad go there.

This is where you short yourself, again HELL (sheol) in the OT translated "the place of the dead" throughout then will Jonah's Hell excluded?

"What man is he that lives, and shall not see death? Shall
he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave [sheol]?" Ps. 89:48. The godly man job said, "If 1 wait, the grave [sheol] is mine
house." job 17:13. The psalmist wrote,” The wicked shall be turned into hell [sheol]." Ps. 9:17. www.helltruth.com/q-a/angels-cast-down-to-hell.aspx

Again HELL (sheol) in the OT used thourghout is a place of the dead will Jonah's hell different?

With all the verses you quoted just add the real meaning to my point.


NOTE: Hell used in OT was translated from sheol "a place of the dead" throughout the Old Testament, it is NT that you will find only different meaning to HELL.

Jesus couldn't make the mistake of comparing His death with Jonah's miracle. Jesus quite knew Jonah died but was brought forth from his dead place by the grace of God.


Mr. Udatso is it clear now?

No problem what ever you believe about Bible

udatso: from this verses..it is clear that jonnah made his prayer when he was not dead yet or we can equally say, when he was about to die or when he was dying but the fact remains, he wasnt dead when he made the prayer

What does this Phrase signify "...out of the belly of HELL cried I"?

Remeber Jonah comfirmed it himself to be sure that he cried from "grave" SHEOL no assumption as you put it up stop coming with assumption. That's another way to twist the truth.

so my dear, if he wasn't dead as at d time of prayer, then he was alive...am coming to your second point of SHEOL

Jonah died stop perambulating and accept the truth. Jonah's statement is true Like Jesus' statement.


If you claim Jonah didn't die according to that verse 2 you're a real hypocrite.

Like I told Mahdino nobody is forcing you to accept Christ but just agree the way Christian preach the truth of their Book. If a Christian quote a verse from Quran, Muslim will say they don't understand it that's why they interpreted it that way. Likewise Christian if you really want to get the real clue of Bible's meaning pray for the descendant of Holyspirit.

Like Mahdino he claimed Jesus was put in a tomb, I asked him is it possible to put someone who didn't die in a tomb(as to bury alive)? He couldn't answer.

On SHEOL......translated HELL is a place of dead but you said is a GRAVE, see the meaning of grave:

A place of burial for a dead body, typically a hole dug in the ground and marked by a stone or mound

a. An excavation for the interment of a corpse.
b. A place of burial. 2. Death or extinction:

if you have any meaning aside this to grave let me know.

NOTE: in hebrew is simply means place of dead no other meaning.

But the truth is Jesus fully aware that Jonah died and was brought back to life by God's grace.

Shalom!

RoyPCain: Jesus is no son of God, except you dream it up.

You believe Jesus when He said His miracle will be like that of Jonah but deny His word when He said it plainly that He's a Son of the Living God. Hmmmmm! Very pathetic.

And Jesus is not gonna judge any world because the Creator does that.

Yes because He is the creator, John 1:1-14

You are trying too hard man. relax and smell the flowers. The creator of those is the Only One Who has control of the "HOUR" and the Judgment is all HIS.

I like this your statement. "By Him all things was created, without Him nothing was created"

legal intercourse is not sinful or a sin you freak.

Sure! But who so ever come through this method is a sinner, that's why Jesus leave a free sinfulless life.

it is part of worship. so how is worship sinful or a sin when you are commanded to it?

No Jesus created it. It is just a union.

your understanding of spousal needs and relationship is warped, even though Yahweh told Adam and Eve that they are legal for each other.

coreect.

maybe you look at everything in this singular focus; whatever Jesus did is right. what others do is sinful even if it is exactly the way Jesus did it toward the same purpose.

He act as He received of Father, and He is not of this world. That's what make Him different.

That is pure deception because i asked what sin did John commit, yet was great enough to confirm Jesus is an adult according to the tribal order of the the jewsih people?

And heavenly being in human's nature.

what sin did Zacharia commit? What sin did Elizabeth commit? What sin did Mary commit? What sin did the mother of Mary commit?

They were all born through sperma and possess sinful nature of human.

What sin did Job commit who was not a contemporary of Jesus so you can't claim Jesus rub off on his contemporary? and baptism washes sin, so no sinless will need baptism. those baptized are washed clean of sin by the baptism, until they begin to acquire sin, again.

You miss it John's baptism was a baptist of repentance i.e knowing only one God. If Jesus that want to reconcile us to God didn't give example how the testimony of God "this is my beloved Son hear Him" will proclaim.

Another confuse thing from my brethen is claiming that Jesus talk about Muhammad as "Holyspirit"

My question is if truly Muslim can trust that Jesus statement why ignoring the rest of His words.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Before jump into comforter as SAW.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

John 8:23 And He said unto them, Ye are from beneath(Earth); I am from above(Heaven): Ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Even Jesus said it clearly that He is the Son of God.

mahdino: U see all of this explanation and log stories will not solve the issue u are just arguing without reason pls don't look at it as if one is trying to score points.
You as a christian explain to us matt: 12:38-40 Jesue said he is going to be like Jonah that he will not die for three days and three nights. I did not put this verse in the bible. Pls u as a scholar simply explain to us. Pls pls pls go staight to the point and explain to us. How is Jesus like Jonah?

See my reply to @Udatso above.

I dare you come and refute that point. Seek salvation where the real salvation is.

And stop teaching those children that Jesus didn't die since you've know the truth now.

Shalom!

udatso: @Eben and emusan
now back to the topic....both of you have quoted verses which you claim that he was dead in the 3days and 3nights....

Yes you're right

equally mahdinho also brought a verse from the bible which is even a direct statement from jesus(pbuh)

But also ignoring the rest of statement by same Jesus.

that his sign will be that of jonah and we all know jonah wasn't dead in the belly of the whale

You're lying sir @bold.

in a book of God, we shouldnt see contradictions like this

No contradiction at all, just misunderstanding of the scriptures.

both of you bringing your verses to prove that he died doesn't erase the prophesy of jesus (pbuh);

Never never He's word remain the only one that is true.

if you choose that he died, then it means you are saying that jesus's prophecy was wrong and we both know he can't lie

Anytime I'm discusing Bible with a Muslim I always like us to reach this point before I show you the real mistake that your Elders make to believe Jesus never died.

the if you choose that he didn't die, then that means attaining salvation by john 3:16 becomes false which removes the whole concept of christianity

For sure Jesus died because before He was born it has been prophesied both His birth and death.

and either way, if you choose one, it means the bible wasn't inspired by God since it has faults

Bible is the word of God. Thank God you even know that.

God isn't a God of confussion and God's work is perfect, wether it was done through a prophet or a human, there is stil that uniqueness which is ITS PERFECT....every religion accepts this simple fact...so my dear emusan and eben..i leave you both to make your choice

Wao... Thanks again for this God's attribute you mention "God is perfect"

Now let me tell you this and if you can open your heart to receive this truth you will know Muslim scholars made a great mistake to try to claim Jesus didn't died and choose a verse to support their false claim.

This is the real story of Jonah's miracle inwhich Jesus made reference to.

Jonah 2:1-2 Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly,
2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

@bold this phrase occur "and he heard me; out of the belly of HELL cried I"

Hell in Hebrew language was translated from the word SHEOL which means a place usually refers to a world of the DEAD with this in that verse 2 of that Jonah, it really shows that Jonah did die only that God's grace was upon him.

Stop taking one verse from Bible, study the whole scripture verse by verse and draw your conclusion.

Now according to Udatso and co brethen, if God can't lie, perfect and inspired Bible.

If Jesus died for you and me. Do you still need to believe another name again?


God have mercy on us all!

Shalom....

mahdino: We believe even matt: 12:39 its a narration but is a fact cos its correspond with an outer source and that is how u cross examine facts.

You disappointed me with this your statement. So Muslim believe is a work of narration only a fact from Jesus while the rest of narrations are lies and not fact.

You know what you want....keep deluding yourself.

The verse for as jonah was alive in the belly of the whale so shall the son of man be in the heart of the earth means he will be alive in the tomb. Not dead for three days and go to hell.

How did Jesus roll the great stone of the tomb?

Even for you to believe that Jesus was put in the tomb shows that you don't know what you're saying.

How can they put someone who was not nailed to the cross in a tomb?

Do they catch Jesus alive and put Him in the tomb(like bruried alive)? What can I call this self?

I did not mention the statement luciana of samosata because like I have said the words of Jesus is better than the words of billion professors, kings or servants.

Remember samosata is not a Christian so he can't bear a good record of Christian, in his statement he try to mock christians but it's a great evidence that Jesus exists and crucified.

See many words of Jesus you ignored but hold on to only one just to justify your falsehood religion.

John 14:6 Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


John 14:15 if ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 15:22 if I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.

John 4:24 God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Mathew 17:9 and as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 17 Therefor doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Who is the truth? Jesus!(John 14: 6 above) 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; naither came I of myself, but He sent me.

John 8:23-24 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath(Earth); I am from above(Heaven): Ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefor unto you, that ye shall die in your sins; for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
And many more of His words

I know you will still claim that they're narrators voice but anything that will make you accept Matt 12:39-40 you should also accept all this verses unelse you're an hypocrite.

We believe he is one of the mighty messengers of God so he can not lie or change his promise, if he had said he is not going to die then what right would someone has to pronounce him dead.

I so much love the bold, now that you know Jesus can't lie or change his promise; how did you see all those quoted verses above?

I told you stop this brainwash of yours it looks rideculous "we(Muslim) believe......" hmm!

Jesus said He is the Son of God, you said no we believe He's a messanger of God.

Jesus said He will die and rise third day, you said no; We believe He didn't die but was taken to heaven

Is it the word of Jesus you should believe or what Muslim believe about Him after you know Jesus can't lie?

Muslims believe Jesus was taken to heaven, is it Jesus who proceeded out from God and return to heaven you should believe or Muhammad who only received message from Allah, died, buried in the grave, and didn't rise?

Logicboy03: lol....
Even christians are now admitting that their God is a slave master....no, even better- a zombie master.

are you a slave to your feelings?

So your God doesnt like people who think and express their emotions?

Remember Dr. Vasee didn't say Chitti shouldn't THINK but there's a set rule given to Chitti.

He prefers obedient zombie slaves.

Well if you call yourself a slave to God good of you but God make it clear that we are not a servant but a SON.

Why worship such a megalomaniacal God?

What you call 'worship' is just a simple set of rules to obey so that devil like Prof. Bora will not haijack you from your creator.

Whatever name you like you can God in case of Chitti, he thought due to the power Prof. Bora gave him even his own creator Dr. Vasee can't destroy him. But at the end he realised once a creator always a creator!

I will like you to watch the movie because what I did is just a summary of it.

After Ten years of research, forsaken his family and his lovely fiancee Dr. Vaseegaran successfully made his Humanoid Robot (Chitti by name) 100% equal human believe of Dr. Vasee. At International Conference of Robot, Dr. Vasee was given a standing ovations for his great work after Chitti answered several questions including this very one:
Aud: Does God exist?
Chitti: What is God?
Aud: The one who created us..
Chitti: My creator exists, Dr. Vasee so God exists.
Though Chitti answered this as an infact machine.

During the presentation of Chitti at AIRD for approval Dr. Vasee's Lecturer Prof. Bora miscommanded Chitti because he has another plan for Chitti which leads to Chitti's rejection. On his way back home, there is fire outbreak somewhere, the rejected Chitti was able to save many lives but the last person Chitti will save was a lady in the bathroom unclad that leads to the death of the young lady because Chitti doesn't know HONOUR. As a result of this Dr. Vasee was forced to installed homones for FEELINGS into Chitti. Chitti performed great work after he has been given the feelings but also has a feeling for his creator fiancee.

At final approval of Chitti at Military Department because he can differantiate between right & wrong, good & bad, Chitti disappointed his creator simply because Prof. Bora has polluted him. This leads to Chitti partially dismantle by Dr. Vasee out of anger because Chitti has broken the rules.

Prof. Bora later locate where Chitti was dumped, recovered him and promised him to reinstall him as he was before, but on one condiction if only Chitti could allow him to copy his neural schema (like human's soul). Well Chitti allows Prof. Bora to go ahead just because he wants to enjoy life. In a course of this Prof. Bora reprograms Chitti and turn him to a terror, unfaithful, denial and betrayal to people around him including his creator (Dr. Vasee).

At last, after Chitti has destroyed millions of properties, killed thousands of people Dr. Vasee subdue his power because he created him, which leads to Government approval for total dismantle of Chitti.

*Peoples say I don't have what they have--FEELINGS--but see how many problems it created.
*Prof. Bora you turn me to a Demon like what many people are today.
*Doctor, you're my God. I betrayed you it was my mistake to break the rules, forgive me.
These are Chitti's statement before he was finally dismantled.

Twenty years later a little girl asked her teacher during excusion to National Museum where remained Chitti were preserved. Why Chitti was dismantled?
Chitti replied: Because I started thinking!

Though Chitti blame Dr. Vasee for given him feelings but Dr. Vasee gave him just because he want him to be conscious of his environment even though he quite knew very well that Chitti can misuse its feeling but he has placed some set of rules in between in order to make Chitti not to misuse it, unfortunately Chitti breaks the rules and Prof. Bora utilized the opportunity to pollute Chitti.

Should we blame Dr. Vasee for given Chitti feelings? No!

Rom 9:20 "Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?"

Film title ROBOT a Bollywood film.

Uyi Iredia: Okay. I get you clear moreso since I was brought up a Christian. Now the purpose of my question was to see if I could wed the Christian concept of the Holy Spirit to my present take on God, and by extension see if a return to Christianity is feasible. I think it unlikely though. As a Christian, I understood the Holy Spirit to be the inner voice, or inner witness that confirms your salvation, the voice of conscience you hear that says this is wrong, this is right, or do this or that. This supposedly comes when a person accepts the faith. I reject it for these reasons:

I now take this voice (ie Holy Spirit) to be a God-given will of man that exists irrespective of any religion or philosophy. WRT my statement you differ to, it is a God-given mind which is applicable in any direction. I see them as 2 sides of a coin. Apparently they are 2 seperate entities (2 coins) to you.

That this voice of conscience, or inner voice which relates to one's ego exists in all men whether or not a Christian. Moreso, since men understood a God before Christ, even in the Bible that the patriachs and other followed God before Christ even while being pagans of sorts which I infer from Laban's search of idols. Or the reply of Pharaoh whom Josiah fought to his demise whom God sent.

I am skeptical of the unforgivable sin which fatally condemns people who blaspheme (insult) the Holy Spirit.

I usually see your stance on this religion section for God but I sense something inwhich I intend to send a PM to you which you have made mention of here.

Like what @Tolu has said, human's spirit operates with spiritual realm. This is a spirit given to all human being direct from God Gen 2:7. Another point is every spirit include God's Spirit have MIND(conscience).

But Holyspirit in other hands is a seperate Spirit from God, before someone will feel the presence of the Holyspirit an external force will envelop the person(you'll feel the direction always at the door), means Holyspirit is not residing in our body until we invite Him into our own spirit after we have washed our spirit to meet with His through the Blood of the Lamb. This is what I call personal encounter with God. So if a Christian can take his/her time to have this personal encounter I believe he/she will ever compromise his/her faith.

About my PM I will still send it.

Shalom!

Nice one Uyi!

Uyi Iredia: @ OP: Please give a concise definition of the Holy Ghost.

With Biblical view Holyspirit is the real spirit of God, the 'Holy' in front signifys the purity of God that make it different from other spirit because there're many spirit in the world from Satan.

Do you think the Holy Ghost is absolutely necessary to believe in God?

Yes! Even if someone accept Jesus at last breath Holyspirit must perfecteth the work within short time before the person's work will be accepted.

And as a living Christian (people that have accepted Christ into their life and still alive) Holyspirit is a great evidence to prove that God really exists. Majority of Christians who has fall on the way I believe they don't have the real encounter with Holyspirit. If not, no one will ever experience the presence of the Holyspirit and deny the existence of Jesus. I'm a living witness, is not imagination at all.

Finally, what do you think of a proposal that what Christians term the Holy Ghost is in fact, the mind of an individual.

No I disagree with you. Holyspirit is a seperate being which you can ask His presence to come on you.

You can see Him, you feel His presence, He can talk to you one on one, infact He's a great comforter. Only those who hasn't experience His presence that think Christianity is just to believe in reading Bible like other books.

Shalom!

mahdino: point of grave important in ur life

If point of grave is not important, why are you fighting against Jesus went to the grave? The reason why I took my time reply all your post is because of that point of grave my brother because I don't want Jesus death to be in vain on you and me.

about leaving the false peace and understand true peace by submitting yourself to God and his prophets.

Your true peace how can I obtain it and through what? What you call false peace is what you are trying to discard all day long. The death of JESUS CHRIST

About the very sign (miracle) of Jesus that he said he is going to be like Jonah and the christians say he is not like Jonah.

Your own assumption, all Christian know that Jesus died and rose up the third day.

You did not see any fault in that but that of golgotta.

Nothing like fault, is just your own false disposition and lack of knowledge of the scriptures.

Shalom!

@mahdino

You and your brethen always talk about Matt 9:9. Is like you need to learn more about ancient method of writing.

For example, this statement is from Lucian of Samosata which I posted above

"It was then that he learned the wondrous lore of the Christians,......."

The above statement was written by Samosata but see the way he composed and wrote about himself. God can't lie!

That's what happen in Bible also.

Shalom!

mahdino: Mahdino, his brethen or muslims are not saying anything except what Jesus said in matt 12: 38-40.

The fact is for you to hold on to this verse alone shows that you don't want to accept the truth.

You explain to us if u are truthful because Jesus said his miracle will be that of Jonah for as Jonah was alive so Jesus will be alive. These are not mahdino's word his brethen or the muslims. Pls stop beating around the bush clearify the miracle solve this problem first,

I think @Eben has explained this earlier, beside even Christians know that the death of Jesus Christ is different from ordinary human death because at Jesus death He went to grave and preach to the dead one's. Jonah prayed at the belly of the fish, Jesus preashed at the grave both happen through spiritual realm.

but u are going out track quoting matt 26:31 then said he unto them... , then Jesus said to them... Pls who is speaking? Is not God nor Jesus nor matthew. Read matt9:9. If matthew was talking he will he saw me and I followed him. These are narration from a historian ur people that having been editing the bible to fit in the Roman concept of salvation. U can check history.

Wao! You call it narration from historian; see yourself the verse you quoted isn't it also a narration from historian?

You even Made mention about Mattew 12:39 but neglecting the beginning of the verse and you later call my quoted verses a narration! did you read the first phrase of that verse 39 at all?

Matt 12:39-40 "But He answered and said unto them.........

What does the above mean? Narrator's voice or Jesus' voice? According to mahdino.

An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it but the sign of prophet Jonas: for as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly: shall the Son of man be three daysand three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH”.

The phrase "in the Heart of the Earth"..... Here Jesus didn't say He will go to heaven and then come back to die again. It means the miracle will happen in their presence which is the sign their looking for. This very verse has even nullified any argument against the death of Jesus Christ if you truly want to hear the truth.

Lastly, you boycott "Lucian of Samosata-statement" I posted above, why?

kwangi: @Op, dem no dey climb ladder from up!

Sure!

Justify yourself on that.

mahdino: Please brother what are u reading? Where is your mind? Can't u reason? You are reading something and u are giving it a direct opposite meaning.
Jesus said the only sign (miracle) he can give them is that of Jonah for as Jonah was 3 days and 3nights in the belly of the whale so shall the son of man be.
For 3 days and 3 nights Jonah was alive, alive, ALIVE in the belly of the whale. Jesus was alive, alive, ALIVE in the heart of the earth. Matt: 12:38-40
Jonah never die at any time during the tribulations
Jesus never die at any point during the tribulations

The problem you and your co brethen have is that you always interpret to suite your fallacious statement. Please don't misguide yourself just because you want your claim to be right.

The word of Jesus is better than the words of not only 500 but even a billion christian.

Thank God this statement came out from you.

If Jesus himself has said he is not going to die then to hell with the christian world.

Please point out the verse where Jesus said He will not die?

The words of Jesus the prophet of God is enough for us muslims

See the same word from Jesus:

Matt 26:31 "Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

What does it mean to smite?
Remember when Jesus was cruxified His desciples fled.

38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me."

Notice the bold, now those are Jesus statement Himself that comfirm the death of Jesus.

Lastly, if I charge of an offence and I try to justify myself by saying I didn't commit the offence, it doesn't hold any evidence because I won't like seeing myself to rot in jail. So I may lie!

What if my best friend says I didn't commit the offence, well because he likes me and doesn't want to see me in jail, we can say he's lying.

What if my relatives say I didn't do it, they might also lie just because they might not want to see me sent to jail.

Finally, what if my worst enemy now says I didn't commit the offence, remember he will like seeing me rotten and perished in the jail; then I'm not guity of it.

What does this signify?

Jesus said He will die, mahdino and his brethen said it's a lie.

Emusan as a best friend of Jesus said my saviour died mahdino and his brethen said it's not true.

Jesus' desciple said their master died, with the evidence that include what mahdino quoted from yet mahdino and his brethen said it's a pure lie.

Then, one of the greatest enemy of Jesus Christ was Lucian of Samosata in his book he try to mock Jesus and his followers but this provide us with a great evidence of Jesus existence and his crucifixion, “It was then that he learned the wondrous lore of the Christians, by associating with their priests and scribes in Palestine. And—how else could it be?—in a trice he made them all look like children, for he was prophet, cult-leader, head of the synagogue, and everything, all by himself. He interpreted and explained some of their books and even composed many, and they revered him as a god, made use of him as a lawgiver, and set him down as a protector, next after that other, to be sure, whom 11 they still worship, the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world."

@bold-Samosata even recognises the remaining eleven desciples and stated it clearly Jesus was crucified.

Mahdino and his brethen what do you have to say about this?

Nobody is forcing you to accept Christian but always have it at back of your mind that Jesus died for you and I leave the story you've been told or implanted in your memory. Stop saying this is what Muslims believe about Jesus Christ it looks rediculous rather say this is what Christian claim but you can't just accept it.

Shalom!

udatso: call muhammad(pbuh) whatever names you like, it doesnt change who he was.

Nobody is calling Muhammad any name than a prophet who was sent by Angel.

you are sure of your religion and so am i christian scholars who are more knowledgeable than you have given testimonies about the holy quran and muhammad(saw).

we are not talking about religion here, we only talk about salvation of our soul.

A christian bishop Boyed Carpenter said in his book titled PERMANENT ELEMENT IN RELIGION page 30 had this to say:muhammad(SAW) is by msny seen only through the fool which dread and ignorance have spread around him. To them he is an object of horror against which any evil might be said..but now the mist of predict has cleared away, we can afford to see "the founder of islam in fairer light"
there are many other testimonies but i wont go into details.[quote]Ok!

[quote]i know ur only path to salvation...which looks very easy and simple...but trust me my dear, the simple and easy way isnt always the right way.....enjoy your simple way to salvation, on judgement day, we shall see who the losers and winners are.....Allah says in the glorious quran " And whoever seeks a religion other than islam, it will never be accepted of him and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers" surah3:85

You never quote any verses where Muhammad(SAW) shows the path to salvation. Please kindly do that.

God will continue to bless us and uphold us with His arms.

I'm so glad you even recognized God's existence.

Apostle Paul in his epestle to people of Romans with the help of The Holyspirit says somethings about the universe and human being and today is being comfirmed by scientist.


Let's look at his inspired statement.
The real verse(s) will appear in blue while added word will appear in default color.

Romans 8:22-23 "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together effect of one has a negative impart on the other until now. This verse simply means every creatures are losing their original perfect creation power - 'the word GROAN was translated from Greek word 'stenazo' meaning expressing grief within oneself'.
Today scientist comfirmed how creations groan within themselve:

*Sun is losing its fuel which may end up stop giving light one day.
*Universe keeps expanding which scientist don't no its outcome.
*Earth's atmosphere keeps destroying through green-house emission gasses which human don't know how to put an end to.
*Earth's magnetic field keeps fading.
*Recession of the Moon keeps occuring.
*Living things keep dying
And many more.....

23 And not only they, that is not only other creations but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves,
Gen 2:7 "God formed man out of the dust of the ground and the Lord God breathed in his nostrils a breath of LIFE and man became a living soul." meaning even human who has the firstfruit of the spirit of God also groan within themselve.

How can this be?

The word 'MUTATIONS' or 'MUTANT' means change, this word has been used millions of times by evolutionist to support evolution of one organism to another organism.

Where this mutant occur? It only occurs in living DNA (every living things have DNA and this DNA contains an INFORMATION or what we called software of life its a genetic code similar to machine code). Time will not permit me to go deep on mutations and DNA information.

Recent research shows us that losing a code or total code from genetic information results to a serious disease or death. waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."

What cause all these creations groaning? Just because of man's disobedient.

But the same God has given us hope to withstand and overcome all these groaning.

Romans 2:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, No matter how groaning of other creations maybe or within ourself if you love God they will surely work together for you own good. to them who are the called according to his purpose."

Whether you like it or not everything in the universe will come to an end one day but the major one is our LIFE, absent of LIFE is what we called Death, where do you want to spend your eternity?

Life isn't a materials thing something that will die and decay.
The Spirit of God 'breath of life' in us will surely return to the owner-God! Moreover, God has promised us eternal life through Jesus Christ His only begotten Son.

Do you love God?

Shalom!

Nice one, the word of God 'Bible' is the genesis to understand our universe.

Scientist have searched the land, oceans, air even now to space just to find origin of life thought LIFE is a cell. The big question is, is LIFE really a cell?

Logicboy03: Wow!

This is the undeniable truth from the bible! This op is not at all a selective reinterpretation of bible quotes! This op covers all the contradicions and inaccuracies in the bible

Misunderstanding of those verses is what you called contradictions and inaccuracies. Only if you really want to know the real meaning of those verses you can bring them up but I won't waste my time if you don't want to.

New Testament was written after the death of Jesus Christ no matter how it might be dated not less than 40-80 AD even by skeptics.

Apostle Paul in his epestle to people of Romans with the help of The Holyspirit says somethings about the universe and human being and today is being comfirmed by scientist.


Let's look at his inspired statement.
The real verse(s) will appear in blue while added word will appear in default color.

Romans 8:22-23 "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

This verse simply means every creatures are losing their original perfect creation power - 'the word GROAN was translated from Greek word 'stenazo' meaning expressing grief within oneself'.
Today scientist comfirmed how creations groan within themselve:

*Sun is losing its fuel which may end up stop giving light one day.
*Universe keeps expanding which scientist don't no its outcome.
*Earth's atmosphere keeps destroying through green-house emission which humans don't know how to put an end to.
*Earth's magnetic field keeps fading.
*Recession of the Moon keeps occuring.
And many more.....

23 And not only they, that is not only other creations but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves,
Gen 2:7 "God formed man out of the dust of the ground and the Lord God breath in his nostril a breath of LIFE and man became a living soul." meaning even humans who have the firstfruit of the spirit of God also groan within themselve.
How can this be?

The word 'MUTATIONS' or 'MUTANT' means change, this word has been used millions of times by evolutionist to support evolution of one organism to another organism.

Where this mutant occur? It only occurs in living DNA (every living things have DNA and this DNA contains an INFORMATION or what will called software of life its a genetic code similar to machine code). Time will not permit me to go deep on mutations and DNA information.

Recent research shows us that losing a code or total code from genetic information results to serious disease or death. waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."

What causes all these creations groaning? Just because of disobedient of man.

But the same God has given us hope to withstand and overcome all these groaning.

Romans 2:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Do you love God?

Shalom!

@Eben

Why did you send our brethens into unreturnable research with your post?

Hmmm......

Pastor Olu T: I quite agree with u that if one wants to live fully in Christ n reign with Him, there is every need for the two. But saying its is the requirement for salvation is not biblical, for all the scriptures says is believing in Jesus to be saved

This is eternal life that they may know You, the one and only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3

when you consider the thief at the right hand of Jesus, he never had the chance to go through all that. Also considering Romans 10:9-10 talks about our believe in Him being the most important part of our salvation.

Now I would not want to take anything out of the op, for it is very necessary for everyone that wants to enjoy abundant life in Christ Jesus according to John10:10 to be baptize into the body of Christ and be filled with the Holy Ghost. we should never see this as prerequisite for salvation for there are times one would not be privilege to be baptize after giving the life to Christ.

Nice one!

Pastor Olu T: kk, in the op u said without these two, meaning water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism one can't be saved?

Actually I said so @op because these are the two key pillars of every believers who truely wants to be like Christ and reign with Him.