₦airaland Forum

Lanrefahm: If u want to hit a nail u start from d head, so start comparing jesus 1st from adam, dat is if u can even do dat

Comparing Jesus with Adam is the best option

--->Adam was made perfect, Jesus was born peefect.

--->God spoke to Adam directly, God spoke through Jesus' body directly

--->Through Adam sin entered into world, through Jesus the power of sin was conquered & destroyed in the world.

--->God was the Father of Adam, Jesus is the Son of God.

--->Adam never know sin until he disobeyed God and brought death upon man, Jesus never no sin and through obedient Jesus purchased everlasting life for all man.

--->God made Adam from the dust of the ground after he sined and God told him "out of the ground you were taken and there shall you return", God brought Jesus into the world through His word and Jesus returned back to where He came from.

God drove Adam out of the garden [his kingdom where man supposed to live] and put Angels in charge instead, Jesus ascended to His kingdom where all His followers will live with Him and Angels were ministered to Him.

Remeber Quran says "the case of Jesus is as the case of Adam"

macof: I want all Christians to state why they believe in Jesus, And give prove that Christianity is not a false religion created for political advantages by The Romans.

I want Christians to prove that Judaism(Israel's religion) is superior to Yoruba spirituality.

The reason for the above is because Christianity was formed from Judaic doctrines

I want Christians to prove that Jesus is the only son of God

I so much love this your question!
I believe in Him because the man who died about 2000years ago is still alive today. How did I know? Simply because He had revealed Himself to me which is the major evidence I have about. Initially I was born into a christian home but along the line I almost lost my faith as a result of rational thinking and more study of science but I thank God that He revealed Himself to me in due time, if not I might have been like some people here in NL. Like I always say I'm not a pastor but I'm a living testimony of God's existence and the my saviour Jesus Christ.

Shalom!

Pastor Olu T: God bless u bro for the summary, but I still how some find if difficult in seeing the differenc?

They can't because the veil still covering their face, lest the light of God shine upon them and remove it.

shdemidemi: None of all the above bro, it stopped about the time Paul was actually writing this epistle to this carnal church of Corinth.

You really disappointed me with this statement.
Anyway you won't be the first nor the last people who have misquoted the scriptures. No wonder why different doctrine keeps show face today in christendom.

What can I say at this perillius time 'than Father please keep reveal your word to your people.'

striktlymi: Now guys, lets be a bit practical... shall we? If you have a gun pointed to your 'temple' because of your faith, won't it falter?

This lead to the question, if heaven is real why Christians are afraiding of death? Simply because we don't know the kind of faith we have.
It happened to Stephen, The Three Hebrew Men, Daniel, most of the Apostle e.t.c.

But we Christian today have mind in material possession of this world which has polluted out Faith.

My prayer is God in His infinite mercy continue to guide our step right and strengthen our faith more.

Law Of Moses, The: Contrasted with the Gospel.

1. The law was intended for one nation--Israel (Exodus 20:1-17; Malachi 4:4); the gospel of Christ is intended for the whole creation (Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15,16).

2. The first covenant was dedicated with the blood of animals (Exodus 24:6-8 ), the new covenant was dedicated with the blood of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 1:18,19).

3. The first institution was administered by frail men--the Levites (Leviticus 16:1-34; Hebrews 7:11-23); the second is administered by Jesus Christ, who was made priest, not by carnal commandment, but "after the power of an endless life" (Hebrews 7:16).

4. Circumcision in the flesh was a sign of the first (Genesis 17:1-14; Leviticus 12:1-13); circumcision in the heart and spirit is the sign of the second (Romans 2:25).

5. The law of Moses guaranteed to the obedient Hebrews temporal blessings (Deuteronomy 28:1-6); the gospel of Christ guarantees spiritual blessings to those who live up to its requirements (1 Peter 1:4).

6. The law of Moses guaranteed to the Hebrews the land of Canaan (Deuteronomy 30:5-10); the gospel guarantees eternal life beyond the grave to those who honor the Lord (1 John 5:20).

7. The law of Moses required obedience to the one true God (Exodus 20:1-5); the gospel emphasizes the Fatherhood of God (Matthew 6:9).

8. The law of Moses prohibited the people from taking the name of the Lord in vain (Exodus 20:7); the gospel requires that out communications be "yea" and "nay", declaring that everything beyond is evil (Matthew 5:37).

9. The law of Moses required the Hebrews to remember the Sabbath day (Exodus 20:8-11); in apostolic times, the people of God remembered the Savior in the feast that He ordained (Matthew 26:26-30; 1 Corinthians 11:23-29) on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).

10. The law of Moses required children to honor their parents (Exodus 20:12); the gospel requires children to obey their parents in the Lord (Ephesians 6:1-4).

11. The law of Moses prohibited murder (Exodus 20:13); the gospel prohibits hatred (1 John 3:15).
- The law of Moses forbade adultery (Exodus 20:14); the gospel prohibits even lust (Matthew 5:28).

12. The law of Moses prohibits stealing (Exodus 20:15); the gospel prohibits stealing and requires benevolence (Ephesians 4:28).

13. The law of Moses forbade the bearing of false witness (Exodus 20:16); the gospel requires us to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15).

14. The law of Moses prohibited covetousness (Exodus 20:17); the gospel requires us to do good unto men according to our opportunities (Galatians 6:10), and love our neighbors as ourselves (Romans 13:10)

Condensed Bible.....

Arcsniper: Pls fellow xtians, can someone tell me how to believe God exits.
I have been trying to believe that but it hasn't been possible,doubt upon doubt,as i keep reading the bible doubt keep getting stronger.
But am bent on believing Gods existence.Am forcing my self to believe God existence.
So someone should tell me how do i go about it.

Note:if you ain't a xtian please don't talk MUSLIMS are permitted to contribute

Whatever Jesus says will surely come to pass He's the only one that every little jot of His word will never fail. He said in John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, [size=14pt]and will manifest myself to him."[/size]

If Jesus said He will manifest Himself to those loved Him, do you think is lying? No! because He has manifested Himself to me and I believe He did so to many Christian who truly seek Him.

Once you open your heart wholeheartedly he will manifest Himself to you. Bible has a practical aspect not just only book.

shalom!

@ Op
I think it depends on individual because as for me my greatest vow on wedding day is this.
"If my wife fails to achieve her dreams in life, God ask ME for it"

OLAADEGBU: Did you see one when you looked at the mirror today?

Looks funny but the best truth....

Actually Jesus doesn't exist to those who didn't believe on Him but to those whom Jesus has redeemed from sin & death, He truly exists! Then you will know that there's more to what is written in the Bible because to me if most Christians depend on the written of Bible only, Christianity will be no where to be found again but Jesus whom you say is never existed keeps manifest Himself to people.
Christians don't serve a dead God or non-existed God. I'm a living testimony I have personal encounter with Jesus.....you can deny yourself about Jesus existence it doesn't change anything about Him because you're leaving under His grace.....have it in mind many theories, article debate have come and gone about Jesus just to disprove His existence yet He remains.... even when He was present on this earth people discard His saying...Mcaof you won't be the first and the last.
My prayer is God will shine His light on you and those who still doubting His existence.

Shalom!

OLAADEGBU: Why are you baring your teeth?

I believe he did so because of this one:"Mohammed claimed that there was but one God, Allah; Christ claimed that He was God (John 10:30-31; John 8:58-59; John 5:18; John 14:9). "

Frosbel will never agree with you though he can agree with the rest...

sarassin: There is an entire theology surrounding the "ascension" but it has nothing to do with pre-exisence, it has more to do with the form and substance of the Holy Spirwit.

You haven't gotten my point on this issue!
Lemme come again.......Pay attention closely to these phrases as there're being used in those verses....

Eph 1:3-5 3 "..who hath blessed us with spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:"
4 "According as [size=14pt]he(God) hath chosen us in him...(Christ)[/size]
5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ...."
That's why I asked you to read it from vr3-5. Notice the word "PREDESTINATED"!

Now on Jeremiah....[size=14pt]"Before I(God) formed thee(Jeremiah) in the belly I(God) knew thee....."[/size] the message here is as clear as crystal. God knew us before we were formed in the belly NOT WHEN WE ARE IN HEAVEN WITH HIM notice these two words "formed" & "in the belly".

Now see the statement of Jesus here because I can see you ignored the key point in that verse and hold on to "ascension".
John 6:62 "what and if ye shall see the Son of Man ascend up [size=16pt]where he(Jesus) was before?[/size]
AMP: inserted [to the place] after ascend up....my point on this verse is "where he was before" that's why I said earlier that Jesus fully knew where He came from and where is going. Both Eph & Jeremiah have nothing to do with pre-existence only if you decided to give them your own meaning.

About Jesus being a descendant of David it's something beyond this forum because I'm tired of typing & repetition.

That John 1:15 you also missed that same point I mean this phrase [size=14pt]"...for he(Jesus) was before me(John the Baptist)[/size] and remember John was BORN before Jesus....how come?


Shalom!

Sarassin: You should worry about your own basic English.
John 6:62 clarifies nothing ! As you well know this verse was so [size=14pt]utterly ridiculous[/size] that even his disciples walked away from him. (verse 66) Clearly early Jews knew nothing about a pre-existence.

SMH......did you mean Jesus' statement in that verse that make people to walked away from Him?
You have answer to your post already but I was only trying to show you the light of the scriptures.
Now to your misunderstanding of that CH. 6 the statement begins in verse 24 when Jesus begins to talk about "manner from heaven and then relate it to His mission" which the people failed to conceived with their spiritual mind, Jesus now says "whosoever eateth his flesh & drinketh his blood it's he that hath life in him" which made people say "this is hard saying who can hear it-verse60" immediately Jesus knew within Himself that the people were murmuring vr61...He then asked them are you people offended because of that....what then if you shall see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? vr62 Can you see what lead to that statement? And vr66 says from that time many of His disciples walked with him know more save the twelve. Read the whole chapter yourself from beginning.

In the time honoured manner of many a Christian before you and doubtless, many after you, you simply wilfully ignore the obvious. The context of the two verses I quoted earlier from Ephesians and Jeremiah are exactly the same i.e a "placement of pre-existence". If Paul says "God chose us in him....." then the same absurd argument can also be made that he was aware of a pre-existence since he was chosen "before the foundation of the world", the same goes for Jeremiah, it does not matter one iota who is speaking, but in the context of Jeremiah it is indeed God speaking to him. The awareness of pre-existence is not the issue here, but the fact of pre-existence

I've clarified my point. With the statement of that Ephesians I will like to ask you this question, did God know those who will make heaven or not?
Both the Ephessians and Jeremiah never claim pre-existence it only shows the ability of All-knowing God, it will be better you add vr 3&5 to that Eph to fully understand Paul's statement and for Jeremiah no doubt about that.
See John the Baptist's statement about Jesus' preexistence John 1:15 "NASB:John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’”
John was born before Jesus how come John said Jesus existed before Him?

Though you have drifted away from the initial point of this thread I mean Trinity but both Trinity & Yehshua preexistence are well supported by scriptures but to you I'm quoting them out of context of which you never provided an actual meaning to those verses.

Sarassin: You are referring to John 17:5, Again, context is necessary, lets see;

Paul states; " God chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him" (Ephesians 1:4) Therefore by your reasoning, if John 17:5 refers to the pre-existence of Jesus then (Eph 1:4) must by implication mean the pre-existence of the followers of Jesus, do you agree ??

The same language occurs again, here The Lord is referring to the prophet Jeremiah;

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations" (Jeremiah 1:5)

Do you also agree that Jeremiah Pre-existed his birth ? If you don’t agree in both cases what makes you think that the passage in John 17:5 refers to the pre-existence of Jesus, afterall, the language is the same ?

I wonder how some people treated ordinary basic English this days.....
"God chooses us before the world begins" does it relate with the statement of Jesus "I HAVE glory WITH you"/As a person did you know when God chose you? and again God is telling Jeremiah "before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee"......was it God who is speaking or Jeremiah/did Jeremiah aware of his existence when God is about to form him? In case of Jesus He was fully aware of His existence before He came to earth....see what Jesus told people......John 6:62 "AMP What then[will be your reaction] if you should see the Son of Man [size=14pt]ascending[/size] to [the place] where He was before?
ESV: Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?
KJV: What and if ye shall see the Son of Man ascend up where he was before?

In this verse you can surely see that Jesus fully knows where He came from and where He's going.
This verse alone clearified any argument about pre-existence of Yehshua!

Shalom!

Sarassin: Smoke and mirrors. You say where " the word of God" appeared "Jesus" would fit perfectly, but it amounts to a blatant and very common manipulation, the verse reads fine exactly as it and is probably what the writer intended until the Trinitarian crew came along working backwards trying to prove the pre-existence of Jesus.

Oh my God...I said substitude Jesus in the verse I quoted above now you've linked it with the whole Bible.....I said put Jesus in a place of the Word of God whether it means the literal word of God or not....

The book of John opens with the famous declaration, "in the beginning was the word......."
The Greek term translated "word" is Logos. It signifies the outward form of inward thought or reason, or the spoken word illustrative of thought, wisdom and doctrine.

Ok

John is teaching that in the very beginning, God's purpose, wisdom or revelation had been in evidence. It was "with God" in that it came from him; it "was God" in that it represented him to mankind [a similar expression is used by Jesus in Matthew 26:28: "This is my blood" i.e this represents my blood. This Word, Wisdom or Doctrine found its reality, its substance, its confirmation in the person of Jesus.

We are still trying to disprove each other.....

The person did not exist before the birth of the child Jesus, but the promise and wisdom of God always existed.

How come Jesus said He has glory with the Father before the World begins?

In John 1:4 it is fully acknowledged that "word" is personified as Jesus, but "personification" is a common early Jewish writing mechanism and occurs severally throughout the bible. The pre-existence of Jesus, like the trinity has no legs to stand on.

If you read that John 1:1-14 you will get yourself right better.....

abdulkayus: I can c many ypocrites here. Just cos dis happen in Kano and has some Islamic connotation wit it, every hypocrites is nw spewin his/her venom of hatred here. Imagine dem claimin dat d human right is abuse. LOL, y dont u ppl leave d gays and lesbians alone den instead of criminalizin dem. So, u will all be happy for ur son, brother, father or ur family member to sag his/her trousers and also barb useless hairstyles? Tel me abt it.
U ppl are all hypocrites and u all know it.

God said a time is coming that "He(God) will write His law into everyone's heart by His Holyspirit for those who asked through His Son"
Muhammed said the law of God is by fire by force.....calling the past prophet a liar...
Can you see the reason why God's laws was not in paper and pen any more?

Jesus is still alive....Jesus is Lord!

Shalom!

Simple answer simply because they couldn't eat what they ate in real life. Is that OK?

Not everyone will subscribe to what the spirit of God is saying through you.

JMAN05: ok. but i understood your reply, but being specific and direct is essential. even if you want to give further prove, you should first give direct reply to the question. i quote:

Another comment I made above is:
28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I
am
going away and I am coming [back]
to
YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would
rejoice that I am going my way to
the Father, because the Father is
greater than I am.
[size=16pt]From that verse, can we say that
Jesus claimed to be equal to the
Father?[/size]

Yes or no before further point.

Stop being behaving like a kid, I asked you question you couldn't answer yet you keep repeating the same thing. This is my question, what do you understand by the word DISTINCT?
I never ask you this but let me ask now, whose word became flesh in John 1:14?

By the way, are you among those who claimed that God created Jesus as an Angel and used Him to created the universe?

-

JMAN05: please answer the question, and be specific.

Your answer to this question determine my response, who is Holyspirit to you.

the bolded has made your reply unspecific ie your adding 'in action'. I repeat, was Jesus the literal word of God? the implication is that God cannot speak again 'cos His word has been made human. His word can only pass through the person His word materialized into. Please give direct Yes or No answer. I dont need more sermon.

No at all but your failure to understand my posts makes it looked so.
The "word in action with life" was only given a name after It has been made to be like his brethren.....human not as Angel.
So if you have power to turn your word into an object that means you can't speak again? SMH
My question was Jesus refers to as a literal word of God or not?

secondly, my second question was not attended to. I repeat: Was it on only earth that Jesus became a person?

I believe the question you wantend to ask here is, did Jesus exist as a person before He came down to earth? If I get you right then, He always exist in any form God wants to use Him...Apostle Paul made it clear that the rock which Moses struck in the wilderness was Christ.
Most Prophet in the OT received message this way "The word of God came to me, saying" here it's in two ways is either they hear it from heaven or the word in form of a person stand beside them and talk.

Reason well and stop make me preach again.

So Jesus showed them the Father, ie himself?

Any how you understand it.

JMAN05: Spirit is the spirit of God. how? his active force or what?

Depend on how you interpret it.

to understand you. are you saying that Jesus is a literal word of God?
Do you also mean that it was on earth that Jesus became a person?
please answer differently. i want to fully understand your position.

Jesus is the "Word of God" being literal or in action.
In 1Peter 1:23 which I've stated earlier Jesus was called the literal Word of God 1Peter 1:23 " AMP:You have been regenerated (born again), not from a mortal origin (seed, sperm), but from one that is immortal by the ever living and lasting Word of God.

ESV:since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

KJV:Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

NIV:For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.[/b]
NB: where "the Word of God" appeared in that text you can put Jesus and it will perfectly fit.
Jesus became human on earth but anytime the Father want to put His own word into action He always gives It life.

I know that Jesus was the one who knew the father so well and he disclosed whom the father is to them. these knowledge is what some in the yearned for. however, contextually Jesus words here is in a different context with the one said at john14. Part of what the disciples saw which others yearned for was the powerful work they performed when they went for preaching, to the extent that demons were made subject to them.

I didn't say they did not see what happen but what lead to Jesus' statement is what I've cleared above.

again, when Jesus made that statement at john 14 he wasn't implying equality with the Father. They truly had no need for the Father cos Jesus said what the father could have said had He been with them.

How did you know it wasn't implied equality?
remember they didn't say Jesus should tell them what they need to hear from the Father but they said [size=14pt]"Show us the Father and it is sufficient for us."[/size] That's the statement which is very clear!

I know you saw those highted part of my reply above. let md repeat:
I shall not speak much
with YOU anymore, for the ruler of the
world is coming. And he has no hold
on me, 31 but, in order for the world
to know that I love the Father, even
as the Father has given me
commandment [to do], so I am
doing . Get up, let us go from here.
with this commandment which Jesus never went against, seeing Jesus is like seeing the Father. He was a perfect representative of the Father.

How this different from my point.....did I say God Himself present here on earth? Only that I don't like the word REPRESENTATIVE.

Another comment I made above is:
28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am
going away and I am coming [back] to
YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would
rejoice that I am going my way to
the Father, because the Father is
greater than I am.
From that verse, can we say that Jesus claimed to be equal to the Father?

Going by the word of Athanasian with this last statement "......yet they are not three Gods but one God, and these three are [size=13pt]distinct[/size] from one another" what do you understand by the word "DISTINCT", I don't know how many time I'm going to repeat this statement.

I have also told you how Trinitarian confuses themselves by thinking <<<<God leave heaven and came down to earth HIMSELF>>>> which is totally false/misunderstanding of the word TRINITY....God only put His own Word into action by made It to became flesh which He sent into the word and put all His uniqueness on Him....Isa 9:6 "for unto us a child was born, unto us a child is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called---Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty GOD, The everlasting Father, The prince of Peace"
Remember God said "my glory will I share with anybody" including Angels.
The government shall be upon his shoulder is when God has putting EVERYTHING under the Kingdom of His son in other to reconciled them to Himself.

Shalom!

This reminds me Genesis' creation of man with this phrase "Let's make man in our own image"
I believe Frank was not made with the physical image of those science but it was made in one motive.....a machine that has a citculatory system, heart, lungs & moving parts like them all.

Kudos to them anyway....

lanrexlan: **Yawns**
I think you are the one trying to shy away from the rest of the message.

Hebrews 5:7 (NIV) -During the days of Jesus' life on earth,he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death,and he was heard because of his reverent submission..What about the one who could save him from death? Which death? Have you forgotten Jesus didn't wanna die when he was praying with loud cries at the Gate of Gethsemane? Read this Matthew 26:39 (NIV) -Going a little farther,he fell with his face to the ground and prayed,My Father,if it is possible,may this cup be taken from me.Yet not as I will,but as you will..He repeated this prayer three times[Matthew 26:44].Then,according to Hebrews 5:7 which says
he was heard and save from the death.Meaning God heard Jesus prayers and save him from death(Crucifixion).
There are many early christians who rejected the crucifixion and deity of Christ.

Who's being deceived now? Me or you? I am done with the op and I am not here for you,take care.

I know you have problem with Basic English.....did Heb 5:7 says when Jesus was about to crucified that He prayed or was it only that time Jesus prayed and cried in the Bible?
I shown you the verse says During the [size=14pt]DAYS,[/size]

JMAN05: The fact is that their are different definition of the trinity. Some believe that God is not three distinct persons that make up the one God, while some agree that that is the case. I want to get your own position.

I've stated this early;
The Father........God Himself
The Son.....God's word that became flesh(which is also God-Just the way He put the same word into action in the creation time and the word crerated everything we see and unseen)
The Holyspirit......The Spirit of God.

The first bold. If you say “one in three”, then the three persons are not God almighty but that God almighty are in them. and that will mean that God is not a person cos he exists in three. Is that what you mean?

One God Almighty but He is the one who made His own WORD became flesh and sent Him into the word in a person of Jesus and put all His uniqueness upon HIm(the word), and He's the one also who has the power to send out His own Spirit. I believe the misunderstanding comes in when some Tranitarian think God transformed Himself into flesh/leave heaven to come to the earth......this are my posit since the beginning of this thread.

second bold. Did you make a mistake there? Jesus wasnt an invisible image. he was visible to all.

I mean Jesus is the image of an invisible God His Father/our Father while on Earth.

It is true that his disciples knew whom he was more than others cos they heard from him directly and he hid some secrets from others too. However, I wouldn’t subscribe to the belief that he was there referring to what he said at chapter 14. they all have different contexts.

To understand what he meant, see what led Jesus to start his statement.

17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying: “Lord, even the demons are made subject to us by the use of your name.” 18 At that he said to them: “I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven. 19 Look! I have given YOU the authority to trample underfoot serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will by any means do YOU hurt. 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice over this, that the spirits are made subject to YOU, but rejoice because YOUR names have been inscribed in the heavens….”

So I think it is this report by his disciples that Jesus meant by what they are seeing or hearing. They also never heard the things Jesus taught them.

At john 14, Jesus was not saying he was equal to the Father, but he was describing that they were in unity, ie in pursuing the same purpose. In fact what they hear from him is what the Father could have said were He to come on earth. After all the Father gave him a command of what to do. John 14:31

In clerifying the superiority of his father he said in the SAME chapter:

28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. 29 So now I have told YOU before it occurs, in order that, when it does occur, YOU may believe. 30 I shall not speak much with YOU anymore, for the ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me, 31 but, in order for the world to know that I love the Father, even as the Father has given me commandment [to do], so I am doing. Get up, let us go from here.

That is not what lead to Jesus' statement though the verse link to next. Jesus first said "No one knows who the Father is, and who the Son is unless anyone Son which to reveal Him" though this is not how the verse put it'.....if you check that verse very well Jesus Christ even said "No ONE knows who the Son is" despite that they wine and thine with Him everyday.

And in that John 14 when Philip asked Him to show them the Father.....He directed the question to Himself and claim to be in the position.....Whoever hath seen ME hath seen the Father......did you notice that?

khattab02: OH ooo.. ALSO NOT IN THE REVISED STANDARD EDITION BY 32 SCHOLARS OF HIGHEST EMINENCE BACKED BY 50 COOPERATING DENOMINATION . IT HAS BEEN THROW OUT AS FABRICATION, CONCOCTION, INTERPOLATION.

Your case is something else.....if that verse has been thrown out by 32 scholar do they throw away those verse that said Jesus died? You embraced them now but later go against them when they say Jesus died, confuse fellow..

lanrexlan: I am not cherry picking,I am banana picking.What's my initial post? Paul contradicting Jesus' teachings,that's what I started with.If I have problem,then you have a problem greater than mine. Smh

To your best now you might think you know Bible very well but of which most things you believe you know in Bible is upside down/twisting message to suit yourself.
For instance you & your co always used Heb 5:7 as key that God saved Jesus from death but see what Paul said in that verse clearly

Heb 5:7 "During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submision..NIV"
Now the first sentence is "During the days(plural) of Jesus' life on earth"......that is throughout His life on earth He always offered a prayer NOT only when He was about to cruxify....even on the Cross He still prayed with agony & submision....."Father forgive them for they know not what they're doing, and finally.....Father unto thy hand I commit my soul" Lewise the next sentence "He offered up prayers(plural) and petitions(plural).....always check sentence composition before you infer your point.

Whatever you believe about Jesus it doesn't change anything even if you claim He doesn't exist.......Many Non-Christians ancient Historian wrote about His death and the persecution on early Churches....it is you to ask yourself this simple question, why Muhammad has to reject Jesus' death?

You can be deceived by people for many years there's a tendency of finding the truth one day but if you're deceiving yourself it will only take the grace of God to find out.....TO THY OWN SELF BE TRUE!

lanrexlan: Better.
Ok

Ok

Then Paul contradicted himself in Hebrews 5:7 when he said Jesus was saved from death.

Contradicted by John 17:3 which says Jesus was sent as a messenger from God.

Then,why didn't Paul forgive those that wrong him? Instead,he handed them over to the devil[1 Timothy 1:20].Contradicting himself and Jesus.
He again contradicted Jesus when he says in Ephesians 1:7 -In him we have redemption through his blood,the forgiveness of our trespasses,according to the riches of his grace.Forgiveness of trespasses is from God and not through blood.
Then,this contradicted the deity of Christ.

This again contradicted Matthew12:37 -For by your words you will be justified,and by your words you will be condemned.

Contradicted by Galatians 3:13 when Paul says Christ has redeemed them from the law having becoming a curse for them.
Also contradicted by Romans 10:4 -For Christ is the end of the law,that every one who has faith may be justified..
Look at the bold very well,Paul again contradicted Jesus when Jesus said in Matthew 22:37-39 -And he said to him,You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,and with all your soul,and with all your mind.This is the great and first commandment.And a second is like it,You shall love your neighbor as yourself.On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets..Paul said if there's any other commandment,it's 'Love your neighbor as thyself' and Jesus said the greatest commandment is 'Love God with all your heart and soul'.

If not because you have problem you quickly cherry pick as usual now that the Op has cleared the point you resolted to contradiction.