₦airaland Forum

I have not really been following very much but I couldn't help noticing mabell supporting Joagbaje; amusing, considering Joagbaje once posted using mabell's login/handle (explaining when confronted that he did not realise she had not logged out).

PS where is nuella2 as well; I would normally expect to see her post soon after mabell's.

[quote author=George_D link=topic=331817.msg6333082#msg6333082 date=1278318485]@Enigma,
The usals/diseqc controls are now being built into the menus of most modern recievers so you don't need a seperate positioner for a mortec/diseqc motor installation.


@toxnaija,
Usals/diseqc 1.2 are two seperate trade names for the same thing.[/quote]Yep, for about 5 years at least now, receivers have had both the Diseqc and USALS protocols. However, Diseqc 1.2 is not the same as USALS; some people "colloquially" refer to USALS as Diseqc 1.3 not 1.2.

To deal with a query raised by tox more info would be required ---  especially whether the set up was done using USALS per se or using Diseqc 1.2 or whether both were configured. An optimal setting would be (1) set up using USALS; (2) find the satellites you need and store them using Diseqc 1.2. That way you can use either USALS or Diseqc 1.2 ---- it is possible that this is what tox's installer did. However, you can work with either one of them without the other if you choose.

Tox

Re Sky and BT etc:

Sky have cornered the UK market and hold us all over a barrell - partly because of the laziness, ignorance, spinelessness or even duplicity of various UK govts. They are also trying to do the same in a number of other countries. We are watching the Sky/BT/Virgin sagas unfold and no one is sure yet of the final outcomes; Sky are in a strong position though!

It seems some of the discussion were at cross purposes. In broad terms, in light of preceding discussion, we can categorise "magic" into two types.

A. Magic as in television/entertainment magic: in general this is based on tricks and illusions and not "dark" powers

B. "Magic" as in relation to "supernatural powers" or the "occult" or the "paranormal"; the Bible passage quoted suggests that this, at the least, existed; instinctively, many believe that it still exists and lore in many cultures suggest its existence. However, obvious examples in modern times are not readily come by and many laying claim to such powers are charlatans and opportunists.

To be fair to him, I believe that my friend pasiiitor Joagbaje really meant to confine himself to entertainment/television magic.

^^^^

I know; in fact I'm sure I explained about Jacks and positioners two or three years ago in Season 1 (and/or 2) of the main thread. However, the point is that I'm sure that tox is using a Diseqc motor which does not require a positioner. I myself have two of them and I have helped a number of friends both here in UK and elsewhere in Europe fit such motors.

^^ That line made me laugh too when I first saw it

{There are some such good one liners like that dotted over Nairaland Religion section in fact}

nuclearboy:
. . . (chei, with all these amazing things called women that we are assailed with on the streets daily) . . .

As a friend of mine observed astutely some years ago:

"Awon omoge ti won kii je ki eniyan born again dada yen!"

{All those ladies who don't allow one to be born again well well!}

[quote author=George_D link=topic=331817.msg6313928#msg6313928 date=1277984650]@toxnaija,
Congrats on your 85cm motorised dish installation. What your enjoying now has been discussed here:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-242036.1792.html#msg3934493

The secret is the diseqc 1.2 positioner that allows you watch any programmed station on your reciever without having to know which position your dish has to face to recieve the signals. You simply select the channel on your decoder menu and the reciever moves the dish to the position where the satellite is. No need to memorise numbers, no need for seperate positioner remotes. The reciever does it all! Truely, when you start using the diseqc positioner, you won't ever like to go back to the old stand alone type.

Congrats once again![/quote]With a Diseqc/USALS motor, which is what I believe tox is using, you don't even need a positioner at all. The motor and receiver do all the job; with USALS you don't even need to search for and find the different satellites; the motor does it automatically after initial set up.

Kenyan 28:
Am not forcing any one to believe in any thing they dont wish.

I have not met @drmightie but have spoken to him on fone TWICE NOW.

Are u all IT DWARFS that no one can confirm that my IP address is in KEnya and @DRmightie's is in UK??!!  I cant be him, @drmightie is a Nigerian living in UK (check his IP address, he's a male) I am a she Kenyan, logging in KEnya.


Who ever wants to know my real name(s) should do what @drmightie did ie provide your email address here then communication will be initiated.

WE ALL USE INCOGNITO NAMES HERE AND I DONT KNOW HOW ONE HAS THE AUDACITY IF NOT STUPIDITY TO SAY THAT I PROVIDE MY REAL SELF HERE,  NEVER EVER, AND IF THIS IS TO HAPPEN, LETS START WITH THE OWNER OF THE THREAD @Sir John and may be I will follow suit.

This is internet,and a global website, who can dare risk their own jobs and personality on a website where every one is "incognito??"
Style up people(@KunleOshob) and use your brains.

Am not surprised to hear that someone says CE is a cult, Jesus himself was rejected and killed in his own home. Yap, its only in Nigeria where pple believe Pr Chris is unreal, in Kenya my country, we respect religion and every one longs to meet PASTOR CHRIS or TB Joshua for life changing situatuations.


@aletheia, drmightie provided his email aDDRESS, GO BACK 2 OR 3 PAGES AND WRITE TO HIM, MAY BE HE WILL CALL U AND CONFIRM IF ITS A WOMAN OR MAN.

I AM A WOMAN IN KENYA, DRMIGHTIE IS A MAN (NIGERIAN) IN UK. HE IS A MEDICAL DOCTOR AND I AM some IT expert in Kenya.

@Enigma , are u too dumb that u cant differentiate @drmightie's flow of gramma is different from mine??

THEN, IF U ASSUME THAT @Kenyan 28= @drmightie ,I WILL HAVE ALL THE REASONS TO ALSO CONCLUDE THAT;

ENIGMA=SIRJOHN=Pimpu=KunleOshob=aletheia =Zodiac61 =africankel

AND MAY BE THE SITE HAS ONLY 2 CHARACTERS/MEMBERS @SirjohN Verses @Kenyan 28, Right??

Please keep posting more and more Kenyan28 as it helps us a lot! For instance, your English (spelling etc) in your last post is an improvement on - not to say different from  - how it had been hitherto. Also, there was a bit of soberness compared to before. The more you post the more we are able to expose your ruse.

Oh, by the way, regarding the so-called different IP addresses you use for Kenyan28 and drmightie you think we don't know that any fool can use IP proxies or IP anonymisers?

enitan2002:
@ pastor enigma,
we see your green light for satellite thread, that's good.

I dey Ooo Eni. I just dey try give some edugamacation to some people misrepresenting Christianity for yonder

See also Post No 3 on this older thread

toxnaija:
all,
I am happy to join the league of hd tv.i got a motorised 85cm + spiderbox 7000hd last week with 11 satellite positions.i watched some hd channels and i just cant adjust to watching sd tv again.the difference is too much.the motorised system is so easy.all you need is press the satellite you want to watch and it goes there automatically.unlike what i had in naija where you have to use a separate motoriser.thanks to badaru who showed me the way!
you can see the magic at spiderbox.tv
i have access to so many hd and sd stations.all the football leagues are guaranteed too with fantastic softcam and technical support at spiderbox.tv/forum.
but you will need a nice internet connection.the box is cheap at £160-£170.

olason,
is it true voxafrica is on star cable tv?pls get in touch.

tox

Na waa o! You didn't even get back to me or let me now that you'd finally had it done! Was it an Alsat installer that did it --- maybe William?

Anyway, I'm glad you find that the motor is as I told you. In fact you should have more than 11 satellites ---- especially if it was set up using USALS.

Anyway, enjoy.

And that "confirmation" post was first made by "drmightie" some time back.

drmightie:
Just a quick one.This is to all the skeptics out there.
Kenyan 28 is not a fake like some folks here may want to believe.She is a real miracle we should all thank God for,at least that is if you are a believer and have enough biblical sense that JESUS still heals today and set people free from their yoke.SHE IS INDEED HIV -VE now after several years of living with it.I spoke to her on the phone recently and we had a lengthy discussion about her health before and after the healing school trip.I find her story to be genuine.passionate n consistent,of course with evidence to show for it.As a medical specialist i can state categorically WITHout any shadow of doubt  that she is indeed healed of her condition.How do u explain all Recurrent opportunistic infections disappearing n other signs n symptoms of immunosuppression n of course HIV virus.LEAVE STORY MY FRIEND IT HAS TO BE GOD !!!!!!.By the way she is currently preparing for her wedding later this year which am already looking 4forward to in kenya.Mind you i do not know her from Adam.I meet her on this forum.Read her story n was touched.If u do not believe her story just do what I did instead of bad-mouthing what u do not understand.Why do not you ask her to send u her phone no thru your email n speak to her yourself n chase up all the phone nos n addresses of the hospital/clinic where she had her post-healing testing.In addition ,ask her send you a copy of her test result n a copy of her wedding  invitation card.

   PLEASE TO ALL FOLKS WHO ARE TRUSTING GOD FOR HEALING ETC if u can not go to the healing school,just keep believing God .Do not give in to any situation that is contrary to wholesomeness.Get bible believing folks around you to pray for you n bible believing elders to lay hands on you in the name of JESUS.PLEASE DO NOT DISCREDIT SOMEONE' TESTIMONY JUST BECAUSE IT SOUNDS IMPOSSIBLE, DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST AND VERIFY IF IT IS TRUE OR NOT.do You know she almost did not attend healing school just bcoz of some things she read here. but thank God she did.I am not against criticisms especially when it is indicated.At LEAST Jesus said we should judged others actions but not a hypocritical criticism( Only GOD judges intentions).But we have to do it with sensitivity so as not to destroy the faith of those who are weak.I do not know pastor Chris nor do i attend CE but pls let us be very careful.it is people' lives we are talking about here.

Meanwhile what kind of medical personnel of integrity can say, without having seen or examined a person, "categorically WITHOUT any shadow of doubt" that the person has been healed of HIV?


EDIT  Also, notice the similar use of CAPITAL letters! Personally, I conclude that Kenyan28 = "drmightie"!

Kenyan 28:
Yap, I post rearly coz am tooo busy preparing for my wedding.
I have class assignments, job and other things to do.

Nevertheless, i have said it all here that i got my healing at the healing school of Pastor Chris in SA.  That remains and cant change WHATSOEVER.

Whether I write every minute,hour,day or once in a month or year, my testimony will be the same, THAT I AM HEALED IN JESUS NAME.AND OHH YES, IT COSTED ME SOME COINS (Air ticket and accomodation)TO TRAVEL TO SOUTH AFRICA FROM KENYA.

AM HEALED, MY HOSPITAL FILE WAS CLOSED AND MY PAY SLIP IS NOW CLEAN OF MEDICAL DEDUCTIONS THAT USED TO BE, GOD IS MY WITNESS.

U MAY WAIT MUCH LONGER FOR ANY ONE TO BLOW VUVUZELAS FOR U TO BELIEVE THAT I AM HEALED AND LIVING IN DEVINE HEALTH.

PRAISE JESUS WHO IS THE SAME YESTERDAY TODAY AND TOMMORROW.

Kenyan 28:
Just a quick one.This is to all the skeptics out there.
Kenyan 28 is not a fake like some folks here may want to believe.She is a real miracle we should all thank God for,at least that is if you are a believer and have enough biblical sense that JESUS still heals today and set people free from their yoke.SHE IS INDEED HIV -VE now after several years of living with it.I spoke to her on the phone recently and we had a lengthy discussion about her health before and after the healing school trip.I find her story to be genuine.passionate n consistent,of course with evidence to show for it.As a medical specialist i can state categorically WITHout any shadow of doubt  that she is indeed healed of her condition.How do u explain all Recurrent opportunistic infections disappearing n other signs n symptoms of immunosuppression n of course HIV virus.LEAVE STORY MY FRIEND IT HAS TO BE GOD !!!!!!.By the way she is currently preparing for her wedding later this year which am already looking 4forward to in kenya.Mind you i do not know her from Adam.I meet her on this forum.Read her story n was touched.If u do not believe her story just do what I did instead of bad-mouthing what u do not understand.Why do not you ask her to send u her phone no thru your email n speak to her yourself n chase up all the phone nos n addresses of the hospital/clinic where she had her post-healing testing.In addition ,ask her send you a copy of her test result n a copy of her wedding  invitation card.

  PLEASE TO ALL FOLKS WHO ARE TRUSTING GOD FOR HEALING ETC if u can not go to the healing school,just keep believing God .Do not give in to any situation that is contrary to wholesomeness.Get bible believing folks around you to pray for you n bible believing elders to lay hands on you in the name of JESUS.PLEASE DO NOT DISCREDIT SOMEONE' TESTIMONY JUST BECAUSE IT SOUNDS IMPOSSIBLE, DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST AND VERIFY IF IT IS TRUE OR NOT.do You know she almost did not attend healing school just bcoz of some things she read here. but thank God she did.I am not against criticisms especially when it is indicated.At LEAST Jesus said we should judged others actions but not a hypocritical criticism( Only GOD judges intentions).But we have to do it with sensitivity so as not to destroy the faith of those who are weak.I do not know pastor Chris nor do i attend CE but pls let us be very careful.it is people' lives we are talking about here.

There you go! Kenyan28 pretending to be another poster confirming Kenyan28's story!

Something fishy?

Acidosis:
what pleasure do you derive when you criticize the works of others? If you are a xtian, you should know about the works and healing power of Jesus, some people called him am magician and all sorts of names but he made it cleared that he was the son of God.
If you criticize Pastor Chris' "Take It", then I wonder what you will say about those that raised dead humans.
Please always test run your synapses before advertising your ignorance!

Indeed Jesus is the son of God; in fact Jesus IS God!

Oyakhilome is a heretical false teacher and deceiver.

Please go and study the difference.

Acidosis:
Shut up, Sir! God is not a Magician

Obviously, you have no manners! I guess the heretic opaks Oyaks did not teach you better.

Worse, you display ignorance if you think opaks Oyaks' "take it" has anything to do with God!

It's a pity this Kenyan 28 doesnt post a lot. I say this because I had noticed a particular inconsistency in her posts earlier on and have been waiting to confirm the inconsistency as evidence of fraud but I need a few more posts to do it conclusively.

Also, there is a pattern to the timing of her posts. While I would be very happy for her if she did get healed ("miraculous") of HIV, there is no ignoring the strong possibility that the story is a fabrication and hoax.

Magic is as real as opaks Oyakhilome's "take it"/"falling under 'anointing'"; they come from the same base.

You think serious and informed people take Fox News seriously?

Zikkyy:
It takes money alright, but not as much as the amount the MOGs are calling for. Having hundreds (or even thousands) of MOGs preaching to same crowd is un-neccessary and waste of fund if you ask me.

Yep, I can agree with this; and indeed it is very right and even important that part of one's giving is into "church" or for the furthering of ministry. However, I also agree with the article in that this giving to "ministry" is often only indirectly for spreading the gospel as a lot of it is taken up by administrative/running costs.

Joagbaje:
It does not take money to preach the gospel . But to spread the gospel? The more money you put into it , the faster the spread. Ministry like ours is making so much impact in the middle east /asia were the work of ministry has been very challenging. But we have  greater result through our satelite tv station and internet hit through our websites. Many hundreds of thousands have come to accept Jesus christ as lord through these media.

I think you are exaggerating; very, recently, I lived in the Middle East for a stretch and have a fair idea of the state of Christianity there; your Christ Embassy "ministry" was nowhere on the radar when I lived in the Middle East!

Joagbaje:
Personal evangelism has its place. But if you must get the gospel round the world , you must take advantage of technology, Use the media. Some satelite stations will not consider putting your programme on air except you have a state of the art studio and recording eqipment. Some recommended  HD cameras may cost between 1 million to 5 million just for a camera and you may need 5 to 10.

Yep, technology is all well and good ------ but other than the fact that a lot of Christians watch so-called "Christian" TV and a good number of them are fleeced of their money, the fact is that so-called "Christian" TV is very useless at evangelism and conversion of non-Christians. In terms of  converting non-Christians to Christianity, so-called "Christian" TV is not value for money at all and the "return on investment" is very poor.

Joagbaje:
The End Time Teacher , Jack Van Impe almost had his programmes taken off air 2 years ago because his studio was regarded as outdated. He was forced to get entirely new complete state of the art studio equipment for them to continue to broadcast his programme. Now you dont buy  such by fasting, you need heavy bucks.

Jack Impe and his wife, when I had time to watch them, talked so much nonsense that it is no loss if their programme goes off air --- granted the man could quote Bible verses off head like no man's business.

Joagbaje:
Jesus in his entire ministry had only 120 desciples and had the highest attendance in a crusade of 5,000 men . if we add women and children maybe 10,000. Someone like pastor Chris could be in a studio talking to tens of millions .

Here you do two things: first you deceive yourself by saying that your god "Pastor Chris" "could be in a studio talking to tens of millions" from a studio; you display your ignorance of the difference between potential and actual; you display your ignorance of how television viewing figures (especially of an individual station) is calculated. Your "Loveworld" station operates here in the UK, yet its viewership is nowhere on the radar when calculating viewing figures in the UK. Let me give you a comparable example. This religion web-page can be viewed by maybe hundreds of millions but do you know that sometimes each post is read  by only 5, maybe 10 readers  - going by the site's own figures?

Second, you show your readiness to undermine Jesus Christ even if only with flippancy and thoughtlessness and of course in the process to elevate your god "Pastor Chris". If you had any sense of true appreciation of Jesus Christ, you will not talk of Him in terms of "holding a crusade" and/or having whatever numbers attending; if you have a proper sense of appreciation of Jesus Christ, you will know that he transcends all that.

Joagbaje:
Eccles. 10:19
money answereth all things.

The world has changed. Old time religion will not suffice.

Typical indiscriminate quoting and misuse of scripture!

Interesting perspective on money and spreading the gospel. From here: http://lordsquill.com/Articles/Reformational/Does_it_Take_Money_to_Spread_the_Gospel.htm

Money, they say, makes the world go round. But does it make the Gospel go round too? . . .

But does it really take money to spread the Gospel? Really? To which I’d have to answer, with a resounding, "NO!" It does not take money to spread the Gospel! If it does, Jesus would not have sent out His disciples to preach the Gospel without money. Twice, not once, when Jesus sent out His disciples to preach the Gospel, (first the twelve and then the seventy disciples -- Luke 9:1-6 and Luke 10:1-30); He told them not to take anything with them for the journey. Not money, not extra clothes, not extra shoes, not food, etc.

You say, "But Paul asked the Corinthians for money to support his ministry. Why do you say that it doesn’t take money to spread the Gospel?" No! Paul did not ask the Corinthians for money to support his ministry. Rather, he reminded them of the promise they made to support the other saints (2 Corinthians 9:5). The money was meant to meet the needs of the other saints in need (2 Corinthians 9:1, 12). Not for spreading the Gospel. There’s a difference (Read the whole of 2 Corinthians 8 and 9). This was similar to what the Early Christians did in Acts 2:41-47 and 4:33-37.

I believe that one of the reasons most ministries or ministers come up with all kinds of schemes to raise money is because they over-stretch their ministries, all in the name of acting out in faith. And when they are not able to meet their enormous bills, they resort to all kinds of tricks and schemes. Another reason is just due to their sheer extravagance, in the name of making God look ‘good.’ You often see such unnecessary extravagance in multi-million dollar church buildings or ministry buildings or campuses.

First of all, let me say that God does not dwell in temples made by hands (Acts 17:24). Rather, He dwells in the hearts of men. We are His temple (1 Corinthians 3:16)!

Second of all, God doesn’t care about where we worship; whether we worship under a tree, in a tent, a school or a cathedral. He only cares about our worship, i.e., how we worship Him –- in spirit and in truth (John 4:24). He only cares about being resident in our hearts, not in brick and mortar.

Perhaps, you say, "But how about in the Old Testament, where God told Moses to tell the people to bring their gold, silver, etc. to build the tabernacle?" (Exodus 25:1-3) That’s true. That was in the Old Testament, and that’s why it’s the Old Testament! It does not apply to us in the New Testament, in the dispensation of Grace. Remember that the tabernacle was a make-shift, collapsible tent. It was a temporary structure. God had to dwell in the tabernacle because in the Old Testament, God’s Spirit couldn’t reside in man because Jesus had not yet come and man had not been redeemed yet.

Even when King Solomon built the first temple, he acknowledged the fact that heaven could not contain God, much less for Him to dwell in a temple (1 Kings 8:27).

Some of these preachers even have the gall to ask their members and radio or TV audience to contribute towards purchasing a private jet or upgrading their private jets, so that they can take the Gospel to the rest of the world! Lie! Most of them use the private jets for their personal pleasure than they do actual ministry work!

For instance, Christian ministries like TBN, Daystar, etc., raise money every year during a telethon (as someone put it, "Con-a-thon" in the name of taking the Gospel to the outermost parts of the world or that they are reaching the world for Christ. Lie! They raise money to sustain the lavish lifestyles of their founders Paul and his wife Jan Crouch (TBN), Marcus and Joni Lamb (Daystar). They are not reaching the world for Christ; rather they are only reaching the Body of Christ or better yet the spiritually gullible for themselves; to grow their own personal empires!

I mean, how are you reaching the world for Christ, when the majority of your viewers are Christians, not unbelievers? For the most part, unbelievers don’t watch Christian stations or programming! So, if anyone is truly trying to reach sinners, he/she would go where sinners are or broadcast on secular radio or TV stations that sinners listen to or watch, not Christian stations!

etc etc etc

TV01:
And lets not forget Traugott  !

In hindsight, I now think Traugott is a different person (a current poster under another name) ---- one I have a little soft spot for actually.

There are many other nairaland IDs that are interesting in repsect of this kind of thing: a couple worth looking into are shahan and syrup among others.

Very very good contribution m_nwankwo; many thanks.

Jenwitemi

Thank you for "saying yours"  (very usefully too) about the posts. I'll make a quick short response now and perhaps there may be scope for development later.

First thing to say: remember that the post and message is from a Christian perspective or "worldview"; thus dealing with your numbered points:

1. Christian "love" falls into various categories; when Christians are commanded to "love", in general love refers to 'agape' love (as opposed to romantic or filial --those based on amorous or family emotions); some have equated Christian "love" in this sense to "charity"; thus from my/the Christian perspective/worldview, it is perfectly sensible (rational, if you like) to have a command to love.


2.   Yep, indeed it is the "God of the Bible"! But then He is also the One Universal God that people of different religions comprehend in different ways; we Christians present Him in particular ways, Moslems present Him in different (sometimes even similar) ways, Yoruba etc traditional religions/faiths present Him in different (again sometimes even similar) ways. Sticking to the Christian/Bible view of Him --- I can identify two sources of angst with Him: (a) the "go and destroy the {e.g. Amalekites etc} utterly" God of the Old Testament and (b) the "send them all 'non-believers' to hell" God that many Christians often present.  Well, I will not try to convince you that the Christian/Biblical God is benevolent; I will simply ask you to open your mind and to expand your search, to be honest to see that many Christians have faced these issues squarely and so to extend your "research" and see whether you can get some "satisfaction" from some of the various ways that they have been addressed. (For example, I saw you contributing to a thread where Christians, albeit in the minority, were saying "hell" is a hoax or that it is possible that everyone will be saved)


3. If you appreciate the Christian doctrine fully, you will see that your point here is in fact agreeing with christian doctrine! Christianity is about dying to self and living by the new man, the real man, the spirit man. This is what is at the heart of being "born again" ---- forget the foolishness presented by the shallow and ignorant "doctrine" parading itself as Christianity whicch abounds that you say a "sinner's prayer", start speaking in "tongues" and you are "born again".

The trouble is much of what most people perceive as "Christianity" is in fact ersatz; when people study genuinely deeply and come to understand and appreciate real/actual Christian doctrine, they will see that a lot (maybe not all) of their concerns actually have decent answers.

Or do you want God to bring you to your wealthy place? How about Psalm 66:12?

Thou hast caused men to ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water: but thou broughtest us out into a wealthy [place].

So to secure this "promise of God" what do you have to do for the next 12 months?


Or perhaps you want the "58 blessings of the Bible"? Well, you know what to do for the next 12 months!


The following is a link to an interesting article by a fellow Nigerian (or at least of Nigerian origin) incidentally.

http://www.lordsquill.com/Articles/Reformational/That%20Which%20is%20Not.htm (This is the better link) OR

http://ezinearticles.com/?That-Which-is-Not&id=2152265

Let's try Psalm 71:21

Thou shalt increase my greatness, and comfort me on every side.

And what do you have to do to ensure this "promise" of God?

Of course, "sow" $71.21 per month for the next 12 months, very easy!

Thanks Jesoul

Even now, I've just read of "it"  on "that thread";  I'm afraid I can't do any better than what Pastor AIO wrote so I'll just be plain boring and wish you all the very very best. 

But I shall not assail you with such a paltry motive as that; it is too poor for a Christian; it should be too base even for a man. Love your neighbour, in the next place, because that will be the way to do good in the world.

Empasis as in original

[b]You are philanthropists, some of you subscribe to missionary societies, you subscribe to the society for orphans, and other charitable objects. I am persuaded that these institutions, though they be excellent and good things, are in some respects a loss, for now a man gives to a society one-tenth of what he would have given himself; and where an orphan would have been kept by a single family, ten families join together to keep that orphan, and so there is about one-tenth of the charity. I think the man who has the time is bound to give nothing at all to societies, but to give all away himself. Be your own society. If there be a society for the sick, then if you have enough money, be your own sick society. If you have the time go and visit the sick yourself, you will know money is well spent then, and you will spare the expense of a secretary. There is a society for finding soup for the poor. Make your own soup. Give it yourself; and if every one who gives his half-a-crown to the society would just spend half-a-sovereign to give the soup away himself, there would be more done. Societies are good; God forbid that I should speak against them; do all you can for them: but still I am afraid that they sometimes thwart individual effort, and I know they rob us of a part of the pleasure which we should have in our own benefactions—the pleasure of seeing the gleaming eye, and of hearing the grateful word when we have been our own almoners.[/b]

Bolding of this last bit is mine.

I will in fact stop the extracts with this last bit - a sort of full circle - as it is this last bit that I posted on the other thread. There is plenty more in the sermon itself for s/he who has the time/inclination to read it.

II. And now shall I have to give REASONS WHY WE SHOULD OBEY THIS COMMAND.
The best reason in all the world is that with which we will begin. We are bound to love our neighbours because God commands it. To the Christian there is no argument so potent as God's will. God's will is the believer's law. He doth not ask what shall it profit him, what shall be the good effect of it upon others, but he simply says, doth my Father say it? Oh, Holy Spirit, help me to obey, not because I may see how it shall be always good for me, but simply because thou commandest. It is the Christian's privilege to do God's commandments, "hearkening to the voice of his Word." But some other reasons may prevail more with others of you who are not Christians.

Let me remark, then, that selfishness itself would bid you love your neighbour. Oh, strange that selfishness should preach a suicidal sermon; but yet if self could speak, it might, if it were wise, deliver an oration like this, "Self, love thy neighbour, for then thy neighbour will love thee. Self, help thy neighbour, for then thy neighbour will help thee. Make to thyself, O self, friends of the mammon of unrighteousness that when thou fairest they may receive thee into abiding habitations. Self, thou wantest ease; make thyself easy by treating everybody well. Self, thou wantest pleasure, thou canst get no pleasure if those around thee hate thee. Make them love thee, dear self, and so shalt thou bless thyself." Ay, even if ye are selfish, I would ye were so pre-eminently selfish, and so wisely selfish that ye would love others to make yourselves happy.

Emphases as in original text.

2. But, now, what am I to do to my neighbour? Love him —it is a hard word—love him. "Well I believe," says one, "I never speak an unkind word of any of my neighbours. I do not know that I ever hurt a person's reputation in my life. I am very careful to do my neighbour no damage. When I start in business I do not let my spirit of competition over throw my spirit of charity. I try not to hurt anybody." My dear friend, that is right as far as it goes, but it does not go the whole way. It is not enough for you to say, you do not hate your neighbour, you are to love him. When you see him in the street it is not sufficient that you keep out of his way, and do not knock him down. It is not sufficient that you do not molest him by night, nor disturb his quiet. It is not a negative, it is a positive command. It is not the not doing, it is the doing. Thou must not injure him it is true, but thou hast not done all when thou hast not done that. Thou oughtest to love him.

Emphases as in original text.

Again, thou art bound to love thy neighbour, though he offend thee with him sin. Sometimes our spirits are overwhelmed, and our hearts are grieved, when we see the wickedness of our streets. The common habit with the harlot or the profligate, is to drive them out of society as a curse. It is not right, it is not Christian-like. We are bound to love even sinners, and not to drive them from the land of hope, but seek to reclaim even these. Is a man a rogue, a thief, or a liar? I cannot love his roguery, or I should be a rogue myself. I cannot love his lying, or I should be untrue; but I am bound to love him still, and even though I am wronged by him, yet I must not harbor one vindictive feeling, but as I would desire God to forgive me, so I must forgive him. And if he so sins against the law of the land, that he is to be punished (and rightly so,) I am to love him in the punishment; for I am not to condemn him to imprisonment vindictively, but I am to do it for his good, that he may be led to repent through the punishment; I am to give him such a measure of punishment as shall be adequate, not as an atonement for his crime, but to teach him the evil of it, and induce him to forsake it. But let me condemn him with a tear in my eye, because I love him still. And let me, when he is thrust into prison, take care that all his keepers attend to him with kindness, and although there be a necessity for sternness and severity in prison discipline, let it not go too far, lest it merge into cruelty, and become wanton, instead of useful. I am bound to love him, though he be sunken in vice, and degraded. The law knows of no exception. It claims my love for him. I must love him. I am not bound to take him to my house; I am not bound to treat him as one of my family. There may be some acts of kindness which would be imprudent, seeing that by doing them I might ruin others, and reward vice. I am bound to set my face against him, as I am just, but I feel I ought not to set my heart against him, for he is my brother-man, and though the devil has besmeared his face, and spits his venom in his mouth, so that when he speaks he speaks in oaths, and when he walks, his feet are swift to shed blood, yet he is a man, and as a man he is my brother, and as a brother I am bound to love him, and if by stooping I can lift him up to something like moral dignity, I am wrong if I do not do it, for I am bound to love him as I love myself.

Emphasis as in original text.

First, we are bound to love and honor all men, simply because they are men; and we are to love, next, all those who dwell near us, not for their goodness or serviceableness toward us, but simply because the law demands it, and they are our neighbours. "Love thy neighbour as thyself."

Love thy neighbour, too, albeit that he be of a different religion. Thou thinkest thyself to be of that sect which is the nearest to the truth, and thou hast hope that thou and thy compeers who think so well, shall certainly be saved. Thy neighbour thinketh differently. His religion thou sayest is unsound and untrue; love him, for all that. Let not thy differences separate him from thee. Perhaps he may be right, or he may be wrong; he shall be the rightest in practice, who loves the most. Possibly he has no religion at all. He disregards thy God; he breaks the Sabbath; he is confessedly an atheist; love him still. Hard words will not convert him, hard deeds will not make him a Christian. Love him straight on; his sin is not against thee, but against thy God. Thy God takes vengeance for sins committed against himself, and leave thou him in God's hands. But if thou canst do him a kind turn, if thou canst find aught whereby thou canst serve him, do it, be it day or night. And if thou makest any distinction, make it thus: Because thou art not of my religion, I will serve thee the more, that thou mayest be converted to the right; whereas thou art a heretic Samaritan, and I an orthodox Jew, thou art still my neighbour, and I will love thee with the hope that thou mayest give up thy temple in Gerizim, and come to bow in the temple of God in Jerusalem. Love thy neighbour, despite differences in religion.

Emphasis mine

I planned to start this thread some days ago as a result of a tangent from here but I got preoccupied elsewhere.

Below are extracts from a sermon delivered in 1857 by C H Spurgeon; the full text is at http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0145.htm

I. First, then, THE COMMAND. It is the second great commandment. The first is, "Thou shalt love the Lord, thy God," and there, the proper standard is, thou shalt love thy God more than thyself. The second commandment is, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour," and the standard there is a little lower, but still preeminently high, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." There is the command. We can split it into three parts. Whom am I to love? My neighbour. What am I to do? I am to love him. How am I to do it? I am to love him as myself.

First, whom am I to love? I am to love my neighbour. By the word neighbour, we are to understand any person who is near us. It comes from two old words, nae or near, (near) and buer, (to dwell) persons residing, or being near us, and if any one in the world is near us, he is our neighbour. The Samaritan, when he saw the wounded man on the road to Jericho, felt that he was in his neighbourhood, and that therefore he was his neighbour, and he was bound to love him. "Love thy neighbour." Perhaps he is in riches, and thou art poor, and thou livest in thy little cot side-by-side with his lordly mansion. Thou seest his estates, thou markest his fine linen, and his sumptuous raiment. God has given him these gifts, and if he has not given them to thee, covet not his wealth, and think no hard thoughts concerning him. There will ever be differences in the circumstances of man, so let it be. Be content with thy own lot, if thou canst not better it, but do not look upon thy neighbour, and wish that he were poor as thyself; and do not aid or abet any who would rid him of his wealth, to make thee hastily rich. Love him, and then thou canst not envy him. Mayhap, on the other hand, thou art rich, and near thee reside the poor. Do not scorn to call them neighbours. Do not scorn to own that thou art bound to love even them. The world calls them thy inferiors. In what are they inferior? They are thine equals really, though not so in station. "God hath made of one blood all people that dwell on the face of the earth." Thou art by no means better than they. They are men, and what art thou more than that? They may be men in rags, but men in rags are men; and if thou be a man arrayed in scarlet, thou art no more than a man. Take heed that thou love thy neighbour, even though he be in rags, and scorn him not, though sunken in the depths of poverty.

(All emphases are mine)