₦airaland Forum

Every Christian is a born again or will be made born again by God.

Further, the Bible suggests that God will even make some non-Christians born again.

Always remember this: it is God who makes a person "born again". Put colloquially, it is God who 'borns' a person again, not man.

Unfortunately, people mistakenly think they make themselves "born again" by making a "decision" or by "giving their lives to Christ". These are good things --- but they themselves do not make a person born again. It is God Himself who does it.

Read: John Chapter 1

12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Lafile

Sorry, proper biblical exegesis takes more than what you have attempted.

Second, the Amplified Bible is not a good version for proper exegesis though it may be helpful for some general insights.

Now to your comment; look at your verse 1: "God stands in the assembly of God"; you see the initial problem with this version even despite the insertion of "of representatives"?


You say the judges will only die because they judged wrongfully; will the judges not have "died" even if they had judged rightly?

Does the fact that people are described as "children of the Most High", on its own, mean they are gods?

Finally, the word translated as "gods' there is "Elohim"; it might interest you to know that even the devil, satan, is called "Elohim" in the Bible: in what sense then is satan/the devil a "god" or indeed God?

No luck with 55.5w with my set up in Cairo; i think it will have to be motorised or need further LNBs to get it. Never mind, I'll search for the satellite when I get to naija in a few weeks.

Thanks; I will try later today if I can get signals from 55.5 w tonight; I don't think I've ever been able to get a signal from that bird yet; maybe my current location is outside its footprint.

The DSTV type dish will be about 80cm to 90cm --- so, not too big. Are the others about that size or bigger?

The wavefrontier toroidal dish t90 being 90cm is about the same size as the DSTV dish. There is also a t55 but i think it will be too small for Nigeria. I'm not sure that you can get the toroidal dish in Nigeria; in fact that is why I'm asking the questions; even in Egypt where I am now and where FTA is very popular, they don't seem to have the toroidal dish; i plan to bring one down from England later this year.

twinstaiye

What are the size of the dishes you are using? Is a 90 cm dish good enough in Lagos e.g. for Hotbird, Nilesat and Astra satellites?

I plan to use what is called a wavefrontier toroidal dish t90; it is like one 90cm dish but can be made to work like 16 dishes (i.e. 16 LNBs) and does not even need to be motorised.

Do you know anyone who instals FTA dishes in Lagos?

Baba_Egun

do these guys work in Lagos as in can they set up a motorised system for me in Lagos?

Second, what size dish will be required in Lagos?

Thanks

Twinstaiye

Please tell us the name of the channel and what satellite it is on, thanks.

, contrary to what you think or believe, angels are below us which is why angels are subject to me.

This statement is simply wrong!

Compare the passage below from Psalm 8:

O LORD, our Lord,

How excellent is Your name in all the earth,
Who have set Your glory above the heavens!

,

What is man that You are mindful of him,
And the son of man that You visit him?

For You have made him a little lower than the angels,
And You have crowned him with glory and honor.

The so called "prosperity gospel" has corrupted the thinking of many Christians so much that many now turn the Bible upside down and suspend biblical common sense. Of course pastors fall sick! In the Bible itself, Paul, Trophimus, Timothy among others all fell sick ----- and they were all greater than any of the so-called modern "pastors", "GOs" and what have you!

Christians are not "gods"! It is biblically ignorant to read John 10:34 or Psalm 82:6 as suggesting that Christians are "gods'. Read Psalm 82:7 where it talks about what will happen to those that had just been referred to as "gods" in the immediate previous verse (82:6). Read also the whole of John chapter 10 to see the people that Jesus was talking to ----- those who wanted to stone and kill Him! {These are the people that modern Christians who call themselves "gods" are identifying with ---- pathetic!}

It is a sin to say a person (Christian or not) is a "god"; it is the same thing that Satan used to deceive Adam and Eve --- 'your eyes will be open and you will be like God' to paraphrase from Genesis.

I know that some false teachers have misled many people into believing this nonsense --- but the truth remains that the Bible does not teach it.

The "tithe predates the law" argument is a sheer fallacy. Is is based on the fact that in Genesis 14 Abraham gave a 'tithe' of spoils of war to Melchizedek. If this is what is being used to support tithing today (and not the "law" then the following questions/points arise:

1. Was Abraham under any command to give a "tithe" to Melchizedek?

2. Or did Abraham just do it of his own free will? In which case it was not (and is not now especially) compulsory or necessary.

3. Did Abraham ever give/pay "tithe" at any other time?

4. Did Abraham ever give/ pay "tithe" from his own property ---- apart from the spoils of war which were not his property (irrespective of the spurious argument that it was part of his "increase".

5. Even if it is accepted, only for argument's sake, that spoils of war were part of Abraham's property, what other time did he give/pay "tithe" from his own property --- or from any other property for that matter.

6. Point to one other person in the Bible who is recorded to have given/paid "tithe" before the law ----- yes, none.



The "tithe predates the law" argument is one of those diabolically clever but false and sometimes fraudulent arguments that false teachers (usually in the word of faith/prosperity gospel camp) have been using to brain-wash their followers. The fact is it has no biblical basis for use to pressurise people into giving/paying tithes today.

The Bible's standard for Christian giving is very simple: let each give as he decides in his own mind, not out of compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. Very simple!

As was said before, there is no requirement to tithe. That is all, that is the end of the matter.

Which other time are we told that Abraham paid/gave tithes

Yep: None


lordimpaq: correct; indeed there is no command for the Christian to tithe ------- that's all!

Apart from the spoils of war, what other tithes did Abraham evr give/pay , from his own property?

Abraham went to war on behalf of Sodom , to rescue his nephew, Lot.
He gave 10% of these spoils of war to Melchizedek,
he allowed Sodom to keep 90%,
NOTHING for him
Now can you explain how this once a life event?

In addition to this being a one-off event, notice that Abraham did not even give the tithe out of his own property; it was from other people's property , "the spoils of war"!

Nobody can prove that Jesus ever paid/gave tithes. There is no evidence for it.

While it cannot be conclusively proved either that He definitely did not pay/give tithes, there is a decent case to say that He never paid/gave it ----------- if the passages concerning tithes are studied carefully, it will be seen that not everyone was required to pay/give tithes.

If Jesus was a carpenter in His early life until His public ministry, then He was not required to pay/give tithes.

To answer a question directed at me on the last page ------ the tithe/tithes is not a "present day reality" if by that one means an obligation to pay/give tithes as it is taught by many present day false teachers and deceivers (and unfortunately some honest but mistaken people too).

Free your mind; learn the truth; when you know the truth, it sets you free!

Our mumu don do!!! Good decision by the government ------ for once!

For those who defend the modern false teaching of "tithing", do you:


1. ever spend the 'tithe/s' on whatever your heart desires including alcohol?

2. ever share your 'tithes' with widows, orphans, and aliens ("illegal immigrants", if you like)?


After all the Bible says you should do these things with your 'tithes'.

What happens if you are in an aeroplane when "the rapture" occurs and the two pilots are Christians?

Meanwhile the passage in 1 Thesalonians that is used to argue that there is a "rapture" is simply misinterpreted. Really, the focus is the second coming of Christ and the resurrection --- there is no "rapture" in the way that it is taught and believed in many churches.

The Word of Faith/Prosperity Gospel is a terrible deception and vomit of Satan.

And @ d last poster, Mike Murdock is, IMO, no better than a con-man and thief promoting psycho-babble (and at best some long-known self-help methods) to suck money from people. Google his name; when finished google 'word faith movement'.

This is not to say that many people unfortunately caught up in Word of Faith/Prosperity Gospel churches are not true Christians, just that they are caught in deception and the truth of the Gospel is being denied to them in many respects by pathological liars, thieves, egomaniacal and diabolical people at the top of the Word of Faith movement and at the top of many of these prosperity "gospel" churches.

otokx

Tell your friend not to give a dime; tell him also that he should be careful about the "teachings' in that church and any of its kind.

I think in total about 20 (or so - not sure of exact number presently) were referred to, technically or 'loosely', as apostles.

I'm afraid I'm also of the opinion that there are no apostles today. Technically, in my opinion, the true apostles were the 12, counting Judas, + Matthias - who was selected by lot to replace the latter. To that list we add Paul of Tarsus. The twelve were of course the original "sent" ones who were direct witnesses of Christ, specifically selected by Him. It was also a qualification for the selection of Matthias that he was also a direct witness of the life of Christ (and His resurrection, I believe). Paul's case is special because, whilst not having been with the rest from the beginning, he was called and "sent" directly and personally by Christ Himself in that Damascene experience.

These 13/14 are to me the true "technical" apostles. Others were loosely called/referred to as 'apostles', mostly by Paul, but I do not think they are apostles in the true/technical sense.

Today, anyone calling himself an apostle is, in my opinion, self-delusional. In any event we are all sent now, so if any Christian is an "apostle" then all Christians are "apostles".

In conclusion, strictly-speaking, only the 13/14 were true apostles; a few others were so referred to in the NT in a kind of "honorary" sense. There are no apostles today or all are "apostles" today.

Rottweiler,

I think you should refer the leaders of the churches you mentioned to the passage below:

James 2 (NLT)

My dear brothers and sisters, how can you claim that you have faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ if you favor some people more than others?
2 For instance, suppose someone comes into your meeting dressed in fancy clothes and expensive jewelry, and another comes in who is poor and dressed in shabby clothes. 3 If you give special attention and a good seat to the rich person, but you say to the poor one, "You can stand over there, or else sit on the floor"-well, 4 doesn't this discrimination show that you are guided by wrong motives?
5 Listen to me, dear brothers and sisters. Hasn't God chosen the poor in this world to be rich in faith? Aren't they the ones who will inherit the Kingdom he promised to those who love him?

They may of course be aware of it and are just choosing to do their own thing ---- rather than what the Bible teaches.

u might also want to ask a famous pentecostal pastor in this country who takes the title 'Papa' and his wife 'Mama'.

eh don't have a go at "Daddy and Mummy G.O." you know!

Just kidding --- since I'm not really getting involved in the debate.

otolorin:
whether true or not, we have no right watsoever, as christians or any-other individuals, to question these MEN.

I think if you study the Bible well, you will realise that we must reject what is not true. Christianity is founded upon truth. The Truth Himself (Jesus Christ) and His apostles told us to hold to that which is true. It is when we go about telling lies, believing lies and asking the rest of the world to believe lies that we ridicule the faith and turn many people away from believing in The Truth.

The idea that we should not question what a "man of God" says - even if we know it is not true - is wrong and is not taught in the Bible. It is also the reason why the "man of God" once known as Jim Jones was able to lead several people to unfortunate and untimely death.

4get_me

You say you have addressed points 1-5; I'm afraid I don't see it; but if you say so I'm happy to leave it.

On sowing and reaping: you are mixing up the reason/motive for doing something with the consequence of doing the thing. I don't know if you are aware that a Christian is not to "give to get". A Christian is not to give because s/he will get in return. A Christian is to give because s/he is grateful to God for His blessings.


What was the widow who gave her mite expecting to receive? (And no good saying she was not a "Christian"

4Get_me

Thanks and blessings too. I've actually enjoyed the discussion even if it might not have always appeared so.

4get_me

Your last post is quite interesting!

1. You are still missing the point. In referring to sharing the tithe with orphans etc, the question is not what churches do. The question is: why does the individual tither not set aside 10% of his/her income and share with widows etc and, sometimes, spend that particular 10% on whatever his/her heart desires? If you know of any tithe-teaching church that says instead of its members bringing the tithes to church, the individual members should instead go and share those tithes with widows etc and buy whatever their own hearts desire, please let us know.

2. You say as a Christian you are not bound by Deuteronomy; then why are you bound by Malachi? On what basis this selective observation/application of Scripture? Or are you not also bound by Malachi? Or you want to base "tithing" on Genesis 14? In which case, why does that apply to you if Deuteronomy 14 does not?

3.

why i don't spend my tithe on whatever my soul lusteth after is because I don't live my Christian life on the dictates of the soul

So you apply a higher standard than God who told people to do exactly that?

4. Fair enough if you don't equate "tithing" with "giving". The response from my position is this: "tithing" was never and is not an obligation for a Christian (though a Christian is obviously free to choose to "tithe"; it is not a condition or precursor to blessings. A Christian is already blessed. What is expected of the Christian as a response to the fact that s/he is already blessed is giving. The only thing that the Bible requires of a Christian is giving according to his/her own decision in his/her own mind. If it is a true Christian mind, rnewed by the Spirit of God, it will know how much to give --- whether more or less than 10% depending on the circumstances.

5. In response to a point you made earlier, saying that the modern teaching of "tithing" is a lie (whether deliberate or indeliberate) does not mean those who teach or practise it are liars or going to hell; it means the teaching is a lie or is false.

4get_me

Well, indeed, your last post has made your position a lot clearer. While your earlier posts did reflect this position, they contained a lot of statements some of which were misleading (to me at least) and some of which are potentially inflammatory (e.g. references to "spirit-filled" believers).

I can accept your position as reasonable even though my own position is more liberal than yours. I believe you can be "spirit-filled" and yet enjoy a shot of whisky or ogogoro or sherry occasionally. Of course, there may be circumstances to abstain e.g. if unhealthy for the particular individual, if the particular individual is prone to alcoholism, or "not to make a brother stumble" etc.

The limit is to make it a rule for every Christian or every "spirit-filled" Christian not to touch alcohol. A lot of your concern seems to be focussed on drunkeness ---- well, even non-Christians (Moslems, Buddhists etc) know that drunkenness is not good. Moreover, even many atheists know that drunkenness is not good.

Drinking a little alcohol, which I understand you equate with "strong drink" (in distinction to "wine", is not the same thing as drunkenness. Having an occasional shot of whisky or an occasional glass of sherry or an occasional calabash of palm wine is not the same thing as drunkenness.

Meanwhile, on your distinction between "wine" and "alcohol", do you know that the "wine" that the early Christians used for communion was alcoholic? If you doubt this, well, some of them even got drunk on communion wine. Whither the distiction between "wine" and "alcohol"? It was also the kind of wine that Jesus drank regularly with His disciples at dinner and at the last supper. Hence even before the "vinegar on the cross" thing Jesus actually drank alcohol ---- which is of course why some accused Him ignorantly of being a wine-bibber.

Well, many "spirit-filled" Christians have enjoyed the occasional alcoholic drink since the earliest days of Christianity and many "spirit-filled" Christians continue to enjoy the occasional alcoholic drink till this day.

ake a look at the Bible.

Those who were warned to stay away from alcohol turned out to be great men of their time. Doesn't that tell you 'alcohol supporters' that ABSTINENCE actually means a lot to God?

Yeah right; that's why Jesus Christ Himself drank alcohol?

OK 4get_me

Let's see:

Do you agree then:


that it is not necessarily wrong (neither is it necessarily a sin) for a Christian to drink "wine or strong drink" ---- so long as s/he does not get drunk?

4get me

No need to get heated up or be unnecessarily sarcastic.

I have actually deliberately not taken you up on whether it was a commandment or not because Iwanted to focus on the bigger picture. But briefly, on that particular point: you seem to be missing one or two things:

(a) the people did not bring up the question of drinking "wine or stong drink"; God Himself did! If it was a choice, for what reason did God give them this choice?

(b) God told them to rejoice in Him if they made this "choice". In other words, God told them that if they "chose" to spend their tithe money on "wine or strong drink" it was part of their rejoicing in God. Therefore, if God told them to rejoice in Him by drinking "wine or strong drink", why did God tell them to rejoice in Him by doing something "wrong"?

(c) The people might have had a "choice" in terms of what their hearts desired, but the whole passage is a commandment because it all invariably starts with "You shall , ", "You shall , "

As I said, whether it was a "choice" and not a commandment is a secondary point.

The real point is if it is soooo wrong to drink "strong drink" --- why did God Himself (without the people even raising the issue) tell them they could do it - and do it to rejoice in Him?

@Enigma
So Deut 14:26 is your own excuse for alcohol and wine drinking?

Grin Grin

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-9866.0.html

Kimba

Very funny and also for not "tithing" according to the modern teaching!