₦airaland Forum

Rev. William Owens, President and Founder of the Coalition of African-American Pastors was very vocal and harsh words for BHO. The pastors had requested a meeting with Obama and Holder to discuss the issue of gay marriage. Obama has not responded in any fashion. Obama has ignored the Black community and is taking them for granted because he [Obama] feels they are in his pocket. He goes on to talk about all the issues facing the Black community including education, high crime in the black community and high unemployment in the Black community. Instead Obama and the Left has chosen a path that involves the Liberal Hollywood elite, Gay and Lesbians and Big Money Donors while ignoring the Black Community that helped Obama ride to victory in 2008.

This Obama guy did the same thing to me. I too helped to drum up support for him back in 1998, but then I requested a meeting with him 2 weeks ago about when I'd be allowed to marry his older daughter, Malia and he hasn't responded in any fashion. The guy just uses people and dumps them after he's finished. Wicked man!

But seriously, what is up with Christians and their obsession with controlling where other people put their d!cks? I don't understand it. So what if gay people want to live together, share income and inherit each other's property? How does it affect you? Its not as if they're trying to force everybody to gay marry. If you don't like it, then just go about your business and pretend it doesn't exist.

Frankly I'll be very suspicious about anybody who gets hot and bothered about this homosexuality issue. After all, the old testament bans tattoos, shaving the sides of your head and mixing cotton and polyester in the same shirt and you don't see people ranting about any of that on YouTube. The fact that you're so interested in what's happening in gay people's bedrooms strongly suggests to me that you're queer yourself.

Why don't you guys just focus on humping your own wife/girlfriend/photo of Genevieve Nnaji and leave the homos alone.

Wow, 50 cent thinks m@sturbation is a sin? That is very interesting and relevant information. In fact, it should be on the front page.

I wonder what Vanilla Ice feels about dry humping? Someone should find out and post it here in the religion section. Nigerians need to know!

[img]http://grouchymuffin.files./2011/07/tues-the-extreme.png?w=500[/img]

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(Double post)

Kay 17: Uyi Iredia accepts micro evolution and its evidence. But I go further in seeing micro evolution as a step, and such multiple steps lead up to "macro evolution"

The only difference between micro-evolution and macro-evolution is the amount of time involved. Nobody is claiming that animals such as dinosaurs suddenly changed into birds overnight. But all the tiny changes accumulating over a very long period of time will eventually result in a creature that looks very different from its ancestors. That's evolution.

People like Uyi Iredia claim that there is an invisible wall that stops creatures from evolving too far away from their "original" forms. But until they can tell us what that wall is made of and how it functions, I'll just take it that they're full of shît.

dorox: Your pastor is the best person to ask for advice regarding this matter, after all na im garri dey at stake. Though in my opinion it is unwise to bring matters like this here because it provides a cheap oppurtunity for all the fake none tithing christians and their atheist friends to portray our Daddies in the lord as a bunch of unscrupulously greedy narcissistic blood suckers.

Looks like you're doing a good job of that yourself.

To be honest, I'm no longer a Christian and even if I was, I wouldn't pay tithe because it has no basis in scripture. But I'd like to encourage all you Christians who do pay tithe to consider giving it to charity or perhaps a motherless babies home.

Pastors tend to spend money in ways that have almost zero benefit to society. In fact, when they make noise at night, deceive people on TV with fake miracles and litter everywhere with their tracts, they're actually using your money to do evil.

And unlike tithing, giving to charity actually has a scriptural basis. And you can be more confident that your money will be put to good use keeping disadvantaged children alive and helping them have a decent future.

"Whatsoever you do for these little ones, you do for me." Its something to think about.

Uyi Iredia: Nonsense ! And a lie at that. The only thing that has been observed is changes of a limited kind. No one has observed common descent which is the meat of the evolutionary theory.

The meat of the theory is gradual change driven by natural selection. Until you and your fellow evolution deniers can explain by what mechanism the observed changes are limited by nobody is going to take you seriously. You've at least admitted that changes have been observed which is good, but what is the cause of this so-called limitation? You can't just claim that there is an invisible wall stopping living things from evolving into different forms. Especially when the fossil record clearly shows them doing so.

CrazyMan: Mic
Now you believe that evil exists right? Allow me to prove to you just like the student did to the prof...

He was talking about me dipshit. Devil's points = Evil Brain's points. Reading comprehension fail.

tpia@:
^ genealogy in reference to the thread title, ogbeni yi.


And yes, genealogy has a more general context than the narrow one you posted there.

Free your mind.

The narrow one I posted there is the one that's in the bible. Your argument is invalid

2good: Nigeria is not in anyway close to a tectonically active plate, so what you saw is in your dream, is your own imagination. Get some education on the cause of Earthquake. You might start with the image below.

Apparently born-again people don't believe in plate tectonics. They believe what the bible says: that the earth is about 6000 years old. Plate tectonics, the continental drift theory, and in fact, the entire field of geology contradict that.

So basically their god can send an earthquake to wherever he wants and he doesn't need any geologic fault lines to do it.

tpia@:
^genealogy is different from parentage.


a number of families can share the same genealogy without necessarily being closely related, or even related at all, depending on how far back they're tracing their common ancestor.

For the third time, the genealogies in Matthew and Luke both went all the way down to Joseph's parents. The only way Mary could share either one of them is if she was Joseph's sister, niece or daughter. I don't think that you are incapable of understanding this very simple fact. I think you are deliberately playing dumb just to avoid admitting that you are wrong.

Its not very mature behaviour in my opinion.

Total crock of bull that doesn't make any sense.

First of all, evolution has been directly observed in the field and even induced in the lab.

Secondly, any secondary student should know that cold is just a subjective feeling of low temperature relative to one's body. "Is there any such thing as cold" is a nonsense question that no science professor would answer yes to, unless maybe he has a brain tumour or something. Ditto for the darkness question.

Third, Einstein was a well known atheist. You name-dropped the wrong Nobel prize winner. You might have had a chance to get away with your lie if you'd picked someone more obscure. But no, you just had to go for the big gun, Albert Einstein to validate your rétarded story.

Try harder next time.

tpia@:
can you explain exactly how people would still consider themselves close relatives after 42 generations.

at that point they're a tribe or clan, sir.

What you're saying only makes sense if you're claiming that the genealogy in Matthew (or Luke) also applied to Mary. And since Matthew traced the lineage all the way from David to Joseph through Joseph's father, that means that Mary must have been either Joseph's sister, daughter or niece.

If you're trying to claim that Mary descended from David through another line, you'll have to provide some proof of that. Barring the slim possibility that you are in possession of a previously undiscovered gospel, I have to assume that you are once again making stuff up just to win an argument.

I'm sure you are aware that we rational minded Nairalanders will never allow you to get away with that. The rule as always is proof or GTFO.

Atheist:-D:
Sure. We do enjoy better standards of living today but we are constantly brought to the edge of oblivion with world politics... remember the 60s-80s... no we are going in the same direction with Iran and nukes.

At least during the Pax Britannica the threat of war was greatly reduced after the Napoleonic wars.

The cold war is another good example of how we a re better off today. Back then, if you had 2 equally matched foes, both of whom thought they could defeat the other, war would have been inevitable. They would basically have looked for even the tiniest reason to go to war.

Today, international diplomacy has made wars far less common than they used to be. If not for it, we would be at war with Cameroun over Bakassi. We might even have annexed Benin republic and Togo for no other reason than that it would be easy and we can get away with it.

Say what you will about the cold war, but the fact is that nobody died during it. That nuclear weapons have only been used in one war is an amazing fact that could not have occurred in any other century.

I haven't said much about Iran's alleged nukes because I believe that is a non-issue that is being largely driven by the media and extremists on both sides. If the two countries ever start doing more than just insulting each other, then we'll talk.

Atheist:-D:
What about the Pax Britannia? Wasn't that a peaceful period too?

The pax Britannica was peaceful, but there was much less prosperity back then. Poverty rates were relatively high, even in. England.

And then there was the diseases. People, especially children, were dying like flies from things like Scarlet Fever and Tuberculosis which are now totally curable. Worldwide, maternal and infant mortality rates were at north-east Nigeria levels or higher. Polio was everywhere.

You may enjoy reading about olden days Britain but, trust me, you wouldn't want to live there.

CrazyMan: Can you compare the kind of technology, the level of wickedness, the magnitude of bloodshed the high rate of natural disasters we're experiencing today to what we had in the old days?

This is almost entirely rubbish. Technology has definitely advanced greatly, but "wickedness" and bloodshed have dropped dramatically. Maybe you should go and read up on the wars of Tamerlane the great and Genghis Khan before you start talking about wickedness and bloodshed. And I don't know where you are getting this idea that natural disasters are more common now because they aren't. If anything, they occur with more or less the same frequency but are now much more survivable due to improved technology, better healthcare and international cooperation, none of which existed in the "old days".

We are living in the greatest period of peace and prosperity that humanity has ever known. Stop fooling yourself.

tpia@:
where did i say mary and joseph were related?

tpia@:
joseph and mary were most likely from the same clan, or tribe, and therefore probably shared the same lineage.

so, mary's genealogy would be more or less the same as joseph's own.

If they shared the same lineage, then they were related. Especially since both Matthew and Luke trace Joseph's lineage through his father.

as was pointed out previously, there's really no point engaging you smartasses in discussion, but occasionally i post just in response to what i assume is a serious question. Although more often than not, its simply a troll doing what they're being paid to do.

one can certainly not prevent you "hawks" from descending on any comment that tasks your brain (ie what you call one),but that doesnt mean your attention is or was welcomed?

dont mistake my civility as fishing for your attention?

as per your lack of comprehension here, do you know the meaning of tribe, and in your own tribe, is everybody related?


very hard arguing with boneheads i tell you.

The problem with calling people boneheads on the internet is that you look especially stúpid when one of those boneheads points out the boneheadedness of your own statements.

olu4life: My fellow brothers in Christ, desist from replying peeps that still dont understand cos it will lead down to arguement and anger. U all have tried to explain but they arent willing to accept,its only God that can touch their heart cos some has a REPROBATE MIND.

What exactly have you explained? According to the bible, Jesus and Joseph weren't related by blood and nothing you people have said has explained how Jesus came to acquire Joseph's genealogy. Tpia's suggestion that Mary and Joseph were related is nonsense. Matthew chapter 1 clearly and unambiguously traces Jesus's ancestry though Joseph, so unless he and his wife were brother and sister, it falls down flat.

Tpia is literally making stuff up, while olu4life is pretending as if OP is being unreasonable for questioning something that clearly makes no sense. You Christians need to do better at defending your religion. I'm not impressed by your responses here at all.

Omo Alata: But why would Satan, the deceiver of the whole world make people turn AWAY from sin

Abeg stop rationalizing something you know is wrong. Besides, I don't buy into any of your Christian fairytales.

Plus, even if he existed, Satan isn't the.one doing the lying, Christians are. The question you should be asking is "If Christianity is real, why can't we find any evidence to support it without resorting to fraud?" Maybe your god and the father of lies have more in common than you think.

This thread should be titled "Lies and the Lying Liars who tell them". Do you really need an atheist like me to explain to you why deceiving people is always a bad thing?

I see that Christianity hasn't changed much from the 4th century when you guys were forging and doctoring ancient documents to make.it look like Jesus.was a real person.

www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm

What!?! You mean there are millions of people stuck down there, suffering in the terrible heat?

Quickly! We have to dig a bigger hole to try and rescue them. Call the fire service, call the army, we have to do something!

How can we just sit down and allow god to torture millions of people like this? He cannot get away with this. We have to stop that evil sadistic psycho from doing this to any more people. It's the Christian thing to do.

America is in deep trouble and they don't even know it. The Christian Taliban have sunk their claws deep into their political system and now almost completely control the republican party. They've managed to manufacture a fake controversy around evolution, a matter that has been settled in the scientific world for almost a century. They are gradually introducing their religious fairytales into science classrooms around the country as "intelligent design", simultaneously indoctrinating and dumbing down the next generation. Every day, they fight to weaken the constitutional separation between church and state in order to increase their influence.

It is now impossible for anyone to be elected to office without kowtowing to them. Even sensible, intelligent politicians like John Mcain have to pretend to be dumb in order not to offend them.

And the right-wing Christians have produced some of the least intelligent, most embarrassing politicians in the history of America. From George Bush to Rick Perry to Christine O'Donnell, the woman who spent half her campaign trying to convince voters that she wasn't a witch. When I watch fox news nowadays I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

What MFM have done is to successfully merge Christianity with African traditional religions. Most people have grown up with the idea that Christianity is better that the our native religion, but they still believe in juju and want protection against all the native doctors and "witches" in their village. MFM goers them have the best of both worlds.

Something very similar happened in Europe during the dark ages. All the local pagan gods got transformed into Christian saints and the local pagan faith healers were depicted as evil witches and devil worshippers. That's because even though the people there had been convinced or coerced into becoming Christians they found it hard to let go of their traditional beliefs. So they just merged them with Christianity and changed the names to make them fit.

Abeg don't give me that "I'm a muslim because it's the most sensible religion" cràp. You're a muslim because your parents indoctrinated you as a child. That is the one and only reason.

You didn't sit down and study all the world's religions and pick the one you thought was best. You didn't read the bible and Bhagavad Gita before concluding that the Koran was better. And you certainly didn't study the latest scientific knowledge of the physical world to see which religion best tallied with it (if you had, you wouldn't have been so ignorant of the Big Bàng theory)

You are a muslim because your family members hammered it into your head when you were a young and impressionable child. If you want to display some intellectual honesty, admitting this would be a good place to start.

After that, maybe you can practice not using circular reasoning all the time. "The Koran is the bestest holy book in the world. Here are some koranic verses that prove it."

^^^^
@ DeepSight

Theres nothing wrong in using humour to advance a point. There are a lot of people who find it much easier to understand such principles when explained in that way.

You seem to be suggesting that we show more reverence when discussing god and the universe. But the question is why? The universe will continue as it is whether we make jokes about it or not. And why should we revere god when he doesn't exist. Do you show the same reverence when discussing the existence of Orunmila, Obatala and Yemoja? Do we also have to revere Minerva, the goddess of love? Or Thor, the God of thunder? What about Diego Maradona, who is worshipped as a god in south America?

If you want to kill the FSM/Pink Unicorn argument dead, all you need to do is provide one piece of valid evidence of the existence of god that doesn't also apply to the FSM.

Until can do that you have no grounds to complain.

^^^^ Exactly like I said. The koranic passages that make patently absurd claims get excused as "not literal". Meanwhile you try to convince yourself that a passage with a vague mention of smoke is a literal reference to the big b@ng theory. Talk about intellectual dishonesty! And then you played that lame "you need to study Arabian literature and history to understand the koran" card. A pathetic rationale used by every half-baked religion in the world to cover up their contradictions and inconsistencies. You might have well have said that I needed the holy spirit to guide me while reading it like the born-agains do.

Look, I get it. You are a muslim. You were born into it. You've been indoctrinated with Islamic propaganda all your life. I understand how hard it is to accept that the religion you have invested so many of your years in is a bunch of gibberish. I realize that you have to defend your religion to minimize the cognitive dissonance.

I really feel bad for you. I just hope that you one day escape from the mental cage you're trapped in.

Cheers.

tutypad: the same scripture say "we battle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and power" so dear, who is 'flesh and blood?' man in physical being. who is 'principalities and powers?' devil and his demonic agents' so, do have more insight about the Holy Scriptures before you qoute.

"We battle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers" Totally correct. So if we're battling against them, that would make then our enemies right?

But we're supposed to love our enemies. So that means I'm right, and you're wrong.

Thank you for helping to get my point across.

CrazyMan: You've already made up your mind that miracles don't exist, so why seek for more proofs...its very obvious that even if all the christians here share their story with you, it won't change anything because your mind is already made up.

You've said it times without number that don't believe in religion, you don't believe in Jesus, you don't believe in God, christianity is a fraud bla bla bla...so why ask for proof? Why do you keep bothering Mr Anony? Why ask people to prove something you've already made up your mind to debunk? If christianity is a fraud what are you still doing here? Who are you trying to prove a point to?

Atheists ask for proof because they want to know the truth. We don't dismiss your beliefs about Jesus out of hand because we know there is a possibility that you are right. But we are not going to just accept them without anything to back them up, hence the need for evidence. Otherwise, how do we know your god is the correct one and not the Muslim or Guru Maharaji god? How do we know there's only one? How do we know the Hindus or Ifa worshippers aren't the ones who've gotten it right? How do we know there is a god at all?

You ask christians questions...and then you criticize them for the answers they give...if you're so wise and intelligent as you claim to be, why waste your time with uneducated characters on this forum?

A real scientist never stops asking questions. The greatest insights can come from the least expected places. If a stopped clock can be right twice a day, so can a random nairalander.

I'm a christian for example,...don't you think it would be very foolish and rude for me to walk into the islam section an begin to demand answers to questions I know I won't believe no matter how hard they try to prove to me?

Its only rude if your only intention is to troll and cause offence. If your intention is to share knowledge, teach and learn from others, there is nothing wrong with it.

If I've chosen christianity, then don't you think it would be sheer madness spending my life to convince a muslim that he's on the wrong side of the road...he has a belief and I must respect that...

Its not madness if you have good reasons to believe that that that Muslim is wasting his time and resources on a pointless endeavour. In fact, showing him the error of his ways is the good and decent thing to do. I'm sure we can all agree that religion is the cause of much suffering and misery. Where we differ is your belief that there is some benefit here or in the afterlife from being religious. If we know that to be untrue, is it really wrong for us to encourage people to abandon religion and use the time they have more productively?

Also, that I'm a christian doesn't mean I would mock a buddhist or hindu for worshiping a cow.
It doesn't mean I would mock the jews for practicing judaism at this modern age...you should know that we have eyes, we have heads, we have brains...so do yourself a favour and respect other peoples beliefs...

I admit that atheists have dished out their share of insults here on Nairaland. But this is largely a reaction to the insults that they themselves have received from religious people. I'm not saying that its right, I'm just giving an explanation. The other side is just as dirty as we are.

Even world renowned atheists still respect other people's beliefs...they exhibited maturity and self respect...they don't expose their stupidity publicly.

If you were half intelligent as I thought you were, then you should know that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions and beliefs...and because someone's own differs from yours shouldn't give you the right to make a mockery of it...if you say Jesus doesn't exist, fine. He didn't exist to you...but respect people who choose to believe that he existed.

Whether or not God exists is not a matter of opinion. Either he does or he doesn't. You cant say "he exists to me" and expect others to accept that because that is not a rational statement. If you say something irrational on Nairaland, you are going to be challenged. If you have a problem with that, maybe you should restrict yourself to reading christian books.

To be successful in life, you must learn to respect people regardless of their tribe, their religion, their race...etc etc. The earlier you know this, the better it would be for you.

Agreed.

Deleted

Double post.

k2039: I didnt want to respond to your post initialy because of the perversity of your own heart? You seek to condemn God to justify yourself.

I'd like you know how you came to the conclusion that I am "seeking to condemn god to justify myself". Was it something I said? Also, I didn't want to reply to your posts because your bumbum is smelling. How do you like that? (I too know how to throw childish insults.)

Job 32:8 “But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.”
You just dont take the bible out of context,you examine the context in which scriptures are written,not taking a verse out of isolation and connoting your own meaning to it

Matthew 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you
Matthew 5:44 is an extention of sermon on the mount.
The Sermon on the Mount is, in short, a body of moral teaching characterized by an emphasis on sincere devotion to God, and a corresponding heartfelt benevolence toward others(human).
In the same verse, Jesus goes on to expand His list of hostiles: "Bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you."(it is obvious He was talking about human enemies).
You should read the whole sermon on the mount to understand the context of everything Jesus said not isolating one and connoting your bias meaning to it

In the context of Matthew 5, when Jesus said, "Love your enemies," He was discussing our relationship with our fellow man and not with Satan.








1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your [b]adversary [/b]the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour
I checked the dictionary now and realise adversary means opponent,but some other translations wrote 'your enemy the devil'.


Satan cant return to his place,so in anger he wants to take as many of God's people with him to hell.
It is worthy to note that even the devil cannot "make" anyone do anything. He can coerce, entice, and mislead a person to rebel against God, but cannot force anyone to do so.
The devil hates God and he wants everybody to join him, He does not want anybody to follow God,yes in that context he is our enemy.

You keep saying "only humans" but you haven't quoted a single text that infers this in any way. Your "out of context" argument is nonsense. I happen to have read the whole sermon on the mount (and indeed the entire bible) several times and it doesn't say only humans, no part of the bible does.

You'll probably claim next that my knowledge of the bible is imperfect or that some special revelation that you happens to have is required to understand it fully.

But until you can back up your claims with scripture that says "humans only" you claim remains refuted.

damoobaba: Oya listen Mumu,Satan íڪ τ̣̣ђё number one enemy of God.He has been banished to eternel destruction by God aΩ̴̩̩̩̥d̶̲̥̅̊ for that reason seeks to destroy anythin made by God specifically 'Humans'.Its a God vs Satan (Good vs evil,Light vs darkness) war and its left for you to decide whose side you are ON. John 10:10. Remember satan cannot change,that's who it/he íڪ. You either !choose eternal life or destruction in hell,its left to you.I pray God help you.

The devil isn't God's "number one enemy". The bible says he was created by god and rebelled. So he's just a child of god who has fallen into sin just like you.

If you'd bothered to read the bible a little you would know this already.

Mumu.

nedu2000: so how should the love for d devil b shown?is it by doing his bidding?.......doing dat would imply showing hatred 2 our fellow humans

Do you love the Boko Haram people? How come you haven't shown it by doing their bidding and killing some infidels?

Your argument is invalid.