₦airaland Forum

ODUNAIKE:
Universal 4G mifi in good condition is needed.

Please tag if you have one.

I have zte mifi. Support all sims and 4G enabled. Battery life is 8hrs.

Mmm

MuttleyLaff:
Thank you. The way you explained it now made sense, as I was able to relate it to what I usually see the players do when watching them on TV et cetera.

So who is your fav G.O.A.T MVP all rounder and why?

Ore, I saw the mail request you sent. Corona has successfully handicapped man honestly. I can't use my mail now as there is no subscribed data on my account. Hope you are doing well?

MuttleyLaff:
See, you see what I mean about your legendary invaluable sources of information. No wonder you are one of my favourites, lol and I am not ashamed to say that.

Now, it is interesting stuff like "Orisa, too possesses, you know[" we want to hear about, as that piece of info, does have a connect with what OP LordReed has here tabled. Please FOLY, free to elaborate on Orisa possession(s), why Orisa possesses, how Orisa possesses, kinds or forms or examples of Orisa posessions, where Orisa possesses, when Orisa possesses, the goal/objectives for an Orisa possession etcetera

Much of the information you needed are in my first post on this thread. I stated that Orisa has limitations despite the fact they are supernaturals. Much like human, they have their own strenght and weaknesses. Olokun has his strenght over the oceans, but would be weak in the desert. Orunmila been intelligence deity would require physical strenght from Ogun (God of iron) when the needs appear. Its about keeping balances and harmony.

WHY DO ORISA POSSESS?
Orisa possess not only human. They possess themselves, plants, animals, humans and even inanimate objects. The reason is to break their limitations. For example, Orisa would possess Iyawo-risa so that they can converse audibly and directly to audience, perform rituals itself and hunt for herbs.

HOW DO ORISA POSSESS?
This s very technical. But from what I saw, some takes lot of drumming, or invocations, or rites, while some would happen swiftly without a sweat. In all possession, the possessed consciousness would be hibernated, lost his sensibilities and self awareness.

WHERE AND WHEN DO ORISA POSSESSES?
It happens during festive period set for celebrating the Orisa. And mostly happen in the shrine or open space where the ceremony happens.

WHO CAN BE POSSESSED?
The Orisa choose his wife himself. It doesn't matter age bracket, sex group, race or color of the skin. It doesn't matter if you understand and speak Yoruba. When you are chosen, you lose yourself and another personality embodies you. Until the orisa exit the body, you will be treated as the orisa himself. And after it exit, you become your own self after some hours, possibly won't remember any jack or the missing moment, unless maybe you watch the video or someone tells you whatsup.

MuttleyLaff:
Ọrẹ mi, FOLYKAZE, please as much as your contributions along with macof and my other friend vaxx1 are no doubt invaluable sources of information, please dont go off on a tangent, which you already have begun doing with your submission above. The subject title's topic and theme is about, if extra-terrestrial beings aka celestial beings aka non human angelic beings, aka supernatural beings are better than human beings bodies, they why do demons possess humans, so please FOLY and invited interlocutors like macof and vaxx1, stick to the subject matter under discourse and help unravel this out of the ordinary scenario painted by OP LordReed's seemingly conundrum.

Queen Elizabeth should employ youas her head secretary. I love the way you write.

Orisa too possess you know. But we will focus on demons. Cheers

Lordreed

I have interest in this topic. And I will like to invite macof and vaxx1 too.

In a particular Ifa verse, it holds that when Orunmila wanted to visit earth, he couldn't make it down because he had no bones on him and could barely move. So he requested that he possess Ogun (the deity of Iron). His request was allowed, hence if he wants to move around, he aways get ase of strength from Ogunlade. Moreso, Ifa cannot foresee anything without ase from Esu and Ogun. From my own deduction, supernatural beings do not just possess physical bodies only. They possess themselves too. It is about strength and weakness and annexing whatever could be added advantage.

In Isese also, there people we call Iyawo-risa. These people are oftentimes possessed. Their consciousness is hibernated, lose their sensibility, and self control. The spirit takes over the body, relay messages directly to audience, hunt for herbs and perform rituals. There is total switch of personalities.

Consciousness/energy is immaterial/material. In fact, material and immaterial doesn't make sense. There is only existence with limitations. Consciousness only shape and become a figure only when it takes over a physical or another spirit body.

Supernature is an unexplained natural phenomenon. Energy/consciousness, material or immaterial is supernatural, super powerful, and presence. The spirits needs other elements to be relevant in another perspective.

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY is a sage.

FOLY, I hail you, I salute you. I am sorry I havent been able to directly respond to your other recent earlier post. Dont worry ọrẹ, you are overcomers, you, your household and all thats yours

It is well

LordReed:
Thank you, I appreciate your answers. You have broadened my understanding and appreciation for a wider range of perception.

Meanwhile what do you say to those who fear such cults as being devilish or malign?

People only fear what they don't know. There is nothing devilish in those circles except that they keep knowledge from the general public because it can easily be corrupted.

LordReed:
I think I understand a bit more but what does it in all mean in practice? How do you practice your own spirituality?

It is life, we simply live it.

Isese is more of a culture than religion. And culture is essentially a way of life, having no penalty or reward served for practicing or neglecting the spiritual system.

The golden aim of Yoruba spiritual course is attaining Iwa-pele. Averting chaos and keeping the polarity of evil/good balanced.

However, in practice, one earn more knowledge about the element of nature and how to use it to his own advantage. Eni yara ni ogun n gbe.

I particularly do not have devotion to any Orisa, except maybe my Ori/inner self. But unless you are initated into an Orisa cult, Ogberi like me and you cannot understand what body of knowledge one can attain from the circle. A warrior would most likely belong to Ogun cult, because he has to master the use of iron or metals in the battle field.

And if you find that an Orisa is not adding any benefit to your life, you are free to take switch or abandon all the Orisas. No penalty whatsoever. Just live your life to the best.

LordReed:
I have tried to have this conversation with you before, lemme try again.

Is it your understanding that these are concepts man is using to understand nature?

It is the original template of all form of spiritualities, esp the Yoruba spiritual system. That everything that exist is alive and conscious, and interconnected relationship must be formed with our natural environment. They use this concept for understanding, connecting and relating with nature.

LordReed:
That is there is no being there but a conceptualisation of particular forms of energy as embodiment of those characteristics that energy form exhibits?

There is a being, or soul or self or Ori. Though the concept of Ori/soul is quite different from the western viewpoint. It is more of consciousness (awareness and reaction), this should be separated from senility. Existence is centred on reactions either chemical or mechanical or whatever.

LordReed:
Eg there is no Sango but conceptualizing lightning and thunder as Sango allows an understanding of its peculiarities?

There is a guy called Sango. historically, he ruled in the Oyo kingdom many years back. But due to the fact that this king mastered the act of annexing lightning, his name was used to conceptualize the nature of lightning/electrical energy. More like when discoveries are named after discoverer today. But before Sango was born, there has been Jakuta cult.

However, aside from the historical aspect of Sango, much other attributes about him found in Ifa are allegorical contents explaining phenomenon of lightning and thunder. Ever wondered why Sango is called Arira onibon orun (flashing light, the gunman of heavens). Flash light cannot be human; it is flashes of lightning. Gunman of heaven cannot be human too because gun was introduced to Yoruba people by the Europeans in 14th centuries. It is a metaphor referring to sound effect of thunder.

Also note the marital status of Sango. According to Ifa, he is married to Osun, Oba, Oya and Olokun. The warrior companion among the four wives is Oya (the deity of violent wind/storm), who always lead the way to battlefields and also carries his husband weapons. Modern knowledge has shown that wind convey electrons, and the combustion in the air leads to lightning and thunder.

And no matter how violent thunderstorm is, it is dispersed or suppressed or cannot penetrate into freshwater. Freshwater here is represented as Osun in Ifa. The correlation is much. Read it up.

LordReed:
Also is it your understanding that these concepts do not demand worship? Subsequently, do you need to do any religious rites such as sacrifice animals or make observances in other to harness the knowledge they represent?

How do you understand the word 'worship'? On a general scale, it is acknowledging worth of something. It isnt about bowing and praising. It is giving preference to something.

In the Yoruba system, what you call worship is nourishment. The deity that collect largest share of ebo (sacrifice) is mouth called Olubobotiribo. Bible says belly is the god of some people. Do you know that you worship your belly and self? You may disagree but know that you give much essence to yourself and belly than anything else. That is worship.

Dont you consciously or unconsciously worship the symbols of nationality either coat of arm or national flag?

I have asked on here though, why water running in my tap is not been worshipped or seen as deity but why the running stream in my street is worshipped. I think it is about value, purpose and essence which metamorphosis to authority and dominion. Maybe these deities are worshipped for the benefit they have provided the worshippers. Maybe the worshippers are only showing appreciation. Maybe the worshipper knew he lives because the sun shine and thought appreciating the sun would be much important.

I understand though that Ifa system is knowledge based system. It is centuries of studies, observations, experimentations and detailing of all natural phenomenon.

MuttleyLaff:
"²³For as I walked around and examined your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:
TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.
Therefore what you worship as something unknown, I now proclaim to you.
²⁴The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands.
²⁵Nor is He served by human hands, as if He needed anything, because He Himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.
²⁶From one ma He made every nation of men, to inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands.
²⁷God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. ²⁸‘For in Him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His offspring.
²⁹Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.
³⁰Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all peoplef everywhere to repent.
³¹For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising Him from the dead.”"
- Acts 17:23-31

emmaodet, it is because of the method claimed that Oduduwa came from heaven to earth by a chain. That only is enough to suspect and see the non-conformity to facts, accuracy and truth of the whole, lol.

emmaodet, it should interest you to know that, no human being comes into this our world without coming in through the door, lol. You cant just climb down a chain into the world. Who does that. For where. When you arent talking of Jack and the Beanstalk, lol.

Or what chain are we talking of here sef, eh? You mean the umbilical chord chain, hmm, lol? Nah emmaodet I know, you dont mean that one, lol. Listen ojaare, for anyone to legally operate on this earth, you will need a body. You defo need to have a body or worse case scenario, possess one. Now you are spoil for choice between a human body or an animal body, but you do need a body somehow. OK, better still, you get or have a body, by legally coming into to the world and that will be through the door, lol. This permits you to legally operate and lawfully do what you need doing, on earth, lol.

No one is mocking aboriginal faiths, but just as like as how shown with Apostle Paul in above Acts 17:23-31, I am truly and am fascinated by our rich and diverse aboriginal faiths, which is why the reason I regularly jump to enjoy and engage my favs FOLYK vaxx1 etcetera

Oga Enugbe. As you dey call me, I hear but no strength to yawn anything. Covid19 is indirectly killing me.

Oduduwa is a representation of dark matter. Nothing more to add

Many bother their minds with the existence of a being, personal or impersonal, called God even when we do not understand what God is, or the nature of existence itself. It's more about knowing oneself, the Yoruba spirituality call it 'Ori', and emphatically express that the self is an arch divinity, and should be acknowledged. That acknowledgement makes one GOD. Know thy self and you will become a God. I am a God, a concious living divinity, eternal and exist.

I choose to identify myself as a spiritual atheist. A spiritual atheist, unlike traditional atheist, tends to redefine God as a form of natural energies, and discard all form of superficial attachment by religious establishment.

Permit me to bring it down a little. Everyone would think Sango is a fiery man breathing fire. I see Sango as a personification of electrical energy.

Lady Justice is a representation of Law/order. Atheist might lock out idea of worshipping Lady Justice, and even deny it exist in reality. But she does...as legality. Would atheist deny existence of Lady justice after knowing there is law in the society?

Therefore, instead of debating the existence of God, understanding the nature of existence and God is vital.

What exist? What is God?

payperpost:
but you are too far away, though you have the perfect one.
I need it now, the lockdown will make it even very hard.

Ohhh. But if you do not get it after the lock down is lifted, do not hesitate to reach me

payperpost:
I need a ZTE Ufi Mifi , Do you have any for sale?

Location - Lagos

I have zte ufi mifi available for sales. Works with all sim cards, backup bactery is 8hrs, support 4g, and wps.

Location is Ore, Ondo state. Would go for 10,000 naira.

Can be waybilled to you in Lagos

.dp

payperpost:
I need a ZTE Ufi Mifi , Do you have any for sale?

I have zte ufi mifi available for sales. Works with all sim cards, backup bactery is 8hrs, support 4g, and wps.

Location is Ore, Ondo state. Would go for 10,000 naira.

The man described in the bible doesn't exist. The guy is a fabrication and exaggerated legend

I lost a child and know how painful it is, please take heart and accept my condolence

MuttleyLaff:
There was no need to bring in Hebrews 11:1 nah

Haa, apologies sir.

Faith is peculiar to Abrahamic religion. Ìgbàgbọ́ is alien to Yoruba spirituality which focuses on knowledge and evidence.

Mo mọ orúkọ wọn pe ikú, nitori eyi, iku kankan ko gbọdọ pami. Mo mọ orúkọ literally mean 'I know the name...', but it goes beyond knowing the name, it is more about comprehensive understanding of the nature/being of....

So you see sir, Isese isn't about faith but knowledge and full understanding.

MuttleyLaff:
Ha-ah, "Iṣeṣe". Dont worry you arent, per son trial, lol. Well, not yet, lol.

Abami Ẹda, prolly got the "cul-ulture and tradition" chorus inspiration in "Teacher Don't Teach Me Nonsense" 1986 sagacious tune from "Iṣeṣe".

It is underground spiritual game. Depends on how you define spirituality though.

MuttleyLaff:
Anyway, FOLY, please, you'll have to, you just, must help me with the following:

Muttley, I have addressed much of these questions on my previous threads. You should look it up. Anyway we can take some bites here.

MuttleyLaff:
1/ What is "Iṣeṣe"?.
2/ What does "Iṣeṣe" mean?
3/ Translate "Iṣeṣe" as best, as you can manage, preferably in a way that can be understood layman's terms, lol.
4/ What is Ifa?
5/ Is Ifa religion or is Ifa a faith/belief system?
6/ Do you believe in Ifa divination, knowledge, power, performance and/or "Iṣeṣe"?
7/ Do you know that Disney has a bible for their characters, so that people who draw Disney characters know how to draw and to make them look correct, hmm? So FOLY, just as, believers have the Bible, lol, what written literature, has Ifa and/or "Iṣeṣe, " please? Muslim, clever clogs though piggybacked on the Bible, bastardised it, to come up with the Quran, lol
8/ Of course, you know, I am showing you that you too are standing on this same table, you are shaking. I am turning around the same wobbly table you're standing on and have the gall to shake against you. I am coming after and/or at you about Orunmila, the historicity of Ifa and your justification of faith in Ifa, hmm?. What are they, FOLY, please, I daresay and/or ask, hmm?

1/2/3. Isese is tradition, and can be loosely translated as traditional spirituality. It is however not religious but more cultural, encompassing the way of life.

4. Ifa is a divination system.

5. Ifa isn't a religion, faith or belief system. It is a observable, practical and systematic way of finding, decoding, interpreting clues/patterns in nature, and essentially applying to humanistic worldview. Ifa is much like an encyclopedia detailing history, scientific behavior of nature, wisdom, philosophy all packed in tales.

6. Ifa divination is handled by Awo who are human and very prone to error. I will only relying on the interpretations of the Awo for self analysis. When a particular have been checked and confirmed understand Odus, I can earnestly trust his/her interpretation.

Note I used the word 'trust' instead of believe.

7. Unfortunately, the Odus and oriki of each odu are not penned down. The system is not formal like Christianity.

8. Well, that is a futile effort which should be expended on more important things. Odu Ifa is a corpus of tales conveying esoteric messages. As per the historicity of Orunmila, you are welcome.

MuttleyLaff:
Good. You're very kind. Thanks. I was just checking we are on same page and/or singing from a same hymn book ni, lol.

Ok

MuttleyLaff:
Good, but the freedom, to abuse, misuse and/or disuse freewill, is what's not on brother.

There is existence. That we should invest our time to know. Right or wrong is all about relativity of time and perception.

MuttleyLaff:
Erhn now, thats true.There is no success without struggle, lol. Remember the intro keyword, subdue. We dont let the bible's ambiguity get the better of us, so we have a back up plan, a Paraclete, lol.

Tbh with you, the bible is more, a case of a book of elusive entendres, lol. Genesis chapters 1 to 3 is polysemous and full of recondite information, lol. There is more than the eyes see. Even that rather racy Genesis chapter 3, if not multiple entendres, is full of double meanings, lol. If you know, you know. Who no know, no go know.

The right any believer has, is to interpret the bible correctly and not interpret it, in accordance to their own understanding.

How many people interpret Deuteronomy 22:20-22 and follow it according to their conviction, hmm? The western part have a colloquial that say "Ti a ba nsunkun, a maa riran" this when loosely translated means "crying and streaming tear waterdrops, doesnt cause one not to have sense see road waka"

This is what religion that is not true, pure and the sort not approved off, by God, because of its fault(s), does, lol

Ọdun Agẹmọ, o yato si, Halloween party. Awọn bi tẹyin bayi, ẹ dowo mọ nau, tẹ bari. Of course, you have no choice, not to respect pukka view(s). Anybaggar, who say your water no go boil hin own water no go hot. No be curse oo, its whats called the boomerang clause, lol

That path I don't want to walk down with you. Lol

budaatum:
That was the understanding according to Joshua. We evolved into Galileo. Who was treated like we treated Christ who also taught advanced knowledge like Galileo taught and who was also killed.

Plato rightly described this, human attitude to newness, in his cave allegory, but it seems we have not quite yet caught up to understand, and instead of blaming ourselves for our ignorance and slowness in the evolution of our understanding, you blame "church" and Joshua.

The blame went beyond church and Joshua, it stops at the able of God, the omniscient, who should know all before it began to the very end. This God revealed to Joshua that Sun revolved round the earth. It also revealed to the church that apostates and witches should be killed. Such omniscient being should have known everything, beyond it's evolution

budaatum:
You mistake "church" for the people who run some of them. Same way most judge God by God worshippers. And you are a literalist. And you think "believe" is the only possible way to reason and understand.

'the people who run some of them' are the church, the Shephard, not to be mistaken they are the ones Jesus handled the ministration to, with the direction to led their flocks.

budaatum:
It was the same "church" that built most of the early schools and taught people to consume data. And those who actually read their Bibles realise that each book is an update on the previous book, and the understanding of God evolves from book to book.

Not really sir/ma

Earliest schools were pagan temples, scattered around Africa, and people world all over were attracted to knowledge about the world.

The basic knowledge of today in chemistry, physics, medicine, astrology, agriculture, philosophy and mathematics have it root in paganism, without any relationship with Christianity like you posit.

budaatum:
It is a lesson of the Bible to evolve. Its a lesson of the universe even. Even God did, into Jesus, and eventually into what many call the Holy Spirit. And the hope you call false is that things will get better for you if you accept "Christ" the Word into your life, which in evolved language means, 'if you learn', though literalist you would likely miss that point though you know it to be true. But its a very slow and often missed process that happens over generations. Your forefathers would be amazed at how far we have come.

I doubt the God nor the Bible evolved. There is still burning furnace for sinners. God is ever a sadist having no bearing in reality of today

Maximus69:
Ó mà se o!

So the discussion is not even coming unlike when it's you and Maximus69!

Since 1pm no further discussion except a response out of shame and frustration when Maximus commented!

I thought you and your brother wanted to resume discussion nah, abi Covid19 did not affect your own job?

Everybody is at home now on compulsory leave due to Covid19 yet your thread is so silent!

Well i've told your brother, there is nothing to discuss when Maximus69 is not interested!

You see yourself as a Sun with the planets revolving around you. You ain't that important.

If you noticed, the thread have been technically laid to rest. The points I need have been buttressed and I have long moved on with something important. Family, friends and business needs much of my attention. I will have to paddle and roll my boat faster with the tumbling coronavirus and dwindling economy itch.

Unless maybe important, you ain't getting respond from me again.

MuttleyLaff:
What is the name of the faith you believe in and/or what is it called, this belief system, you buy/have bought into?

I am asking just this one, simple easy, straightforward and direct question, so the smoke preceding the fire wont be too distracting, choking and in anyway blurring to want to block your vision to see clearly. I am also asking, as I, if I can help it, dont like making assumptions, so why l like to get this info from the horse's mouth.

I seriously don't do or get myself involved in faith things. As rightly defined in the bible, faith is a conviction and hope for substances and phenomenon that have no emperical evidence.

Though I am a spiritual conscious person, tends toward Isese but not a dedicated adherent. Love all philosophies and logical reasoning in Ifa particularly, and in Ecclesiastics of the bible.

MuttleyLaff:
I am sure, you'll agree and accept with me that, sports like, ice hockey, football, soccer etcetera is a religion. Fashion is a religion, atheism is a religion, Christianity, Islam. Altruism, lol, is religion. Even altheism, believe it or not, is a religion, lol.

Yes I agree and very much accept.

MuttleyLaff:
Aside Christians and/or Christianity being augmented with paganism's rituals, practices and/or tradition, would you really blame JW for not seeing themselves as Christians, hmm FOLY?

Why should I blame them? Every conscious mind out there, JW inclusive, have freedom of religion, conviction and thoughts.

The bible is largely ambiguous and open to multiple meanings. JW, like the white garment church, have the right to interpret the bible in their own understanding, and following it according to their conviction. That is what religion do, I am right and every others are wrong.

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY, my guy, quickly scan through the Bible and return back to tell if you will find anywhere in it that mentions Christianity a religion and/or by that name.

The whole idea of pigeonholing belief systems into specific, named groups called "religions" is a relatively modern novel concept, nah.

One of the major philosophical teaching of Jesus, in His capacity as man and divinity, is about one body, ekklesia, called out. The ruling civilization of that time period were the Greeks and normally "Ekklesia" is the assembly of free citizens, to which belonged judicial and legislative power, and from which aliens, slaves and the likes were excluded, but here is Jesus, turning this whole political concept on its head, lol, and now talking about having a gathering of citizens (i.e. any member of the demos/ all people) no discrimination, no prejudices, no sexism etcetera called out from their homes into public space and to partake, deliberate, legislate and be fully inclusive in the sovereign governing body's services, expectations and/or requirement. Praise God. Alleluia.

The point, I am making FOLY, is God is Christianity atheistic, Christian atheistic and even Christian denomination(s) atheistic, lol, He believes in plain and simple "Ekklesia," His body, lol. Believes in nothing else than His Bride.

That is your viewpoint and I respect that.

Maximus69:
Don't worry neighbour, keep waiting for response from FOLY.

Perhaps he's now under quarantine, i'm sure he will surely prove negative to Covid19, then he'll have your time.

Until then, have faith your brother will respond to your call for discussion/ debate/ argument. Maximus69 is NOT interested!

Good example of a Christian. Keep it up

Maximus69:
Do you think he is after fake believers like you?

Come on, the spirit navigating his brains know exactly his target!

I bet you if he will discuss/argue/debate with you at all unless he just feel like getting back at Maximus69 (one of the main targets who has stylishly quenched the burning missile of his father) Isaiah 54:17 compare to Ephesians 6:16

So i'm glad to tell you that your so called "brother" don't have your time!

Sorry to disappoint, I have all the time in the world to respond to posts from Muttley

MuttleyLaff:
Ah-ah wetin nah. I had to dig this thread up from 4 pages away from front page. Kilo de?

Anyway, my much loving brother FOLY, I couldnt help but notice that you used "Christian faith" and not "Christian religion" in the topic heading. Why? Is there, to your understanding, a distinction and difference ni between faith and religion, lol? Please advise, and would appreciate you with illustration and/or example of what each is. Thank you.

Faith and religion can be used interchangeably but I chose the word 'faith' instead because it captured comprehensively the believe system of people who adhere to Jesus teachings. With 'religion', many would see demarcations, doctrines and divides. Much of the JW for example dont see themselves as Christians whom they believe have been corrupted with paganism. Bahai faith adopted some of the gospel but do not recognize themselves as Christians. We also have some Gnostic who do not recognize themselves as Christians, ruled out divinity of Christ, miracles and supernatural attributes; they however, embrace the philosophical teaching of Jesus as man. I think people would generally accept the uniformity of 'Christian faith' than carved out religion system which divide them

budaatum:
The church acted like parents who did not know better at the time, and mature children find ways to forgive their parents of the errors of the past.

Besides, we also read how the church created an environment for those contrary views and opinions to exist in the first place. If they had not promoted an increase in reading (a major way of consuming information), we'd likely be much dumber today.

The church if acted as a 'parent who did not know better at that time' still kept the arcade and pseudo-knowledge till date when information reign.

If church was a good parent, it would have updated bible based knowledge and evolve with time when reality has shown most of the accounts in the bible is fiction. At that, the whole belief system should be handled as tale, instead of reality.

The church was more interested in extorting it children and subduing them with illusion of hope

budaatum:
That's your opinion, which I'm afraid I can't share.

Religion was in fact an attempt to share "knowledge of the mechanism of universe". Genesis 1 is sufficient proof of this. The only error is that religions start with Primary 1 lessons where the essence is believe. You might see this stage as learning ABC by rote. Some grow out of Primary 1 to higher classes where they learn to make words and sentences and paragraphs.

The mechanism of the universe according to the book of Joshua, is that the Sun moves round the earth, and Joshua purportedly commanded the sun to stop moving. This negates new findings which reveal otherwise that the Earth revolve the Sun. Galileo was killed for unravelling the truth

budaatum:
The Church did not so much hide it. It's the people who are not yet ready to understand. Besides, its not as if there was lots of people teaching a worthy alternative to what the church taught, until now. In fact, I think if the church had not done its bit we'd be much worse off.

We read about how the church exterminate the apostates, mostly those who have contrary view against the church and/or hold opinions that negate the bible or divinities

LordReed:
It's a real wonder. I am sure the lack of access to information played a huge role. Now people are getting access to more and more information, its getting harder to justify a lot of these beliefs.

It is a multi-billion dollar industry. The controller generals would do everything to restrict access to information exposing the fraudulent nature of the belief system. Since there is enough money to make from the gullibility of the people, it may take centuries before the system die

budaatum:
Now more people are gaining an understanding, you mean.

But wasn't that The intention? To open peoples' eyes?

Religion wasn't designed for people to gain understanding. The knowledge of the mechanism of universe and nature tends to push religion back to where it belong, the abyss of mediocrity.

Right from inception, the populace always want an explanation and want to relate with the universe. Religion creates a bogeyman, and most likely skydaddy, to explain off the enquiries of the masses.

Whoever invented religion is a con artist, who understand the psychological nature of human, and how to manipulate the mind of men.

Time and time again, it has been exposed as wholesome fraud with abject hopelessness and envelope of fantasies.

LordReed:
Did you note that the author of the study is a confessed catholic? LMFAO!

Wow. How the church could hide the secret for 2 millennium for more than 20 billions people is what I don't understand.