₦airaland Forum

delkuf:
@gohf salvation is not a reward oooooo. Did you worked for it. It is a gift. Something we did not work for. We are not rewarded with salvation.

don't obey God and work for him na, since he has dashed you salvation already. Don't worry you don't even need to be fruitful ba... continue.

Thankgod89:
you quoted Mark 10:17-27 and say that Jesus was exposing his heart by telling him the truth, it is either you didn't read the text and study it with the Holy Spirit and you are writing out what men have taught you.
So according to your response, if I haven’t studied with the Holy Spirit, then you have? That would mean you're claiming that the Spirit has revealed to you that salvation is a reward.

I’m not here to prove that I know more than anyone else. This isn’t about who is right or wrong but about what the Scripture truly says.

Also, you made an unnecessary jab, as if we were debating political issues. What was the reason for saying, "because it feels like I am responding to a child that feels they want to be right rather than understand the truth"? That statement was completely out of line.

The verses you quoted do not indicate that salvation is a reward. While there are rewards in heaven, salvation itself is not one of them.

For example, in Matthew 24:13, when Jesus says, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved," He is not contradicting salvation by grace. Rather, He is emphasizing that genuine believers will remain steadfast in their faith despite trials and temptations.

Jesus' statement encourages faithful perseverance—not as a way to earn salvation, but as a reflection of true, living faith. Those who truly belong to Christ will remain firm, not by their own strength, but because God sustains them.

As a matter of fact, Jesus was speaking about the end times, warning His disciples that as wickedness increases, many people's love for God will "grow cold."

This does not mean that true believers will lose their salvation. Rather, it means that many will fall away, revealing that their faith was never genuine.

Take note of this, 1 John 2:19 1 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

lol, say whatever you want. This response is not for your sake

Luke.9.62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

1John.2.17 And this world is fading away, along with everything it craves. But if you do the will of God, you will live forever.
1John.2.20 - 25
But you are not like that, for the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and all of you know the truth. So I am writing to you not because you don't know the truth but because you know the difference between truth and falsehood... So you must remain faithful to what you have been taught from the beginning. If you do, you will continue to live in fellowship with the Son and with the Father. And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life.

Antichristian2:
Adam's punishment ushered in life on earth a place to test who deserves Paradise or Hell.

Destiny ends in Hell or Paradise!

it seems like I am helping you correct yourself

Antichristian2:
Adam's punishment didn't affect his descendants. They never tasted the life of paradise. Their destinies started and ended on earth as Allah willed for them. Adam was in Paradise before he was sent down to earth!

so according to you someone is punished and thrown into prison and his descendants who are born in that prison are left in that prison because they never tasted freedom...?

So your god willed for your destiny to end here on earth?

Thankgod89:
If the Holy Spirit has revealed to you that salvation is a reward, who am I to question your claim? However, the Scriptures are clear, and I believe there is no hidden interpretation. One principle I always uphold in biblical discussions is to never say what the Bible does not say.

Your explanation is incorrect, yet you continue to insist that you are right.

Here are my points from Mark 10:17-27: The man walked away sorrowful, revealing that his attachment to wealth was greater than his desire for eternal life. This emphasizes that salvation is not merely about external obedience but about full surrender to Christ.

Now, consider the disciples’ reaction and Jesus’ response in verses 26-27:

"[26] And they were astonished beyond measure, saying among themselves, ‘Who then can be saved?’ [27] But Jesus, looking at them, said, ‘With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.’"

If salvation were simply a reward for good works or obedience, why didn’t Jesus say so? Instead, He declared that salvation is impossible for man to attain on his own. This proves that salvation is not something we earn—it is only possible with God’s help because it is a free gift.

"If the Holy Spirit has revealed to you that salvation is a reward, who am I to question your claim?"

Who made the claim 🙄

You believe there is no hidden interpretation.

Did I tell you I was giving you a hidden interpretation?

One principle you always uphold in biblical discussions is to never say what the Bible does not say.

If you want to justify yourself continue but instead of praising yourself you should have just shown what the bible says.

Do you think my words are about me insisting I am right, are the words about me? Is this a discuss to prove who is right? If so then it's okay I am wrong believe whatever you want.

You claimed my explanation is incorrect without showing how or why it is incorrect. Look my response is not because of whatever opinion you want to have about me. 😆

Did I tell you that salvation is devoid of God's help. Let me use your own words, that salvation is impossible for man to attain on his own. Why didn't you write that Jesus said Salvation is given completely by God and not that man needs God's help to obey Him.

So Jesus reveals we need God's help but here you are claiming that it is completely free from God. Then why didn't Jesus tell that to the rich man, why did he comment the apostles who left all and followed him?

Go back and read my responses again, because it feels like I am responding to a child that feels they want to be right rather than understand the truth.

You are asking like I haven't told you that Jesus repeated taught salvation and eternal life as a reward.

You can still go ahead and call these verses my claiming to be right

Matt.10.22 And everyone will hate you because of your allegiance to me. But those who endure to the end will be saved.

Matt.24.12-13 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matt.25.34 - 36
Then the King will say to those on the right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.
I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.'

Luke.10.25-28
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

John.5.24 "I assure you, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

John.12.50 And I know his instructions lead to eternal life; so I say whatever the Father tells me to say!"

Antichristian2:
Adam was the first man and he sinned. God sent him and his wife to earth. There they multiplied. God's intention was to fill the earth with humans. So they reproduced on earth!

How did God continue to punish Adam?

Adam sinned and was sent down to earth. Later God forgave him when he repented. Allah promised to send guidance and whoever follows His guidance will not grief. But the disobedient ones will be punished with hell.

You are not answering this question

"The question still stands if you can answer is, if the consequences of Adam's actions were not inherited according to you, why were he children of Adam left outside the garden or are you saying the children were allowed in, expect Adam who received that as a punishment, according to what you have said?"

Instead you are suggesting that what you said earlier that Adam was punished is wrong and he was only sent to earth or you are saying that it was God's plan to punish Adam, has his intention was for he and his wife to be on earth.

Now you are completely denying that Adam was punished for anything or that you said God did nothing after you claimed he was forgiven.


By the way, you are writing this send down to earth, where was the garden, was it not on earth?

Thankgod89:
No sir,salvation is not a reward,

Salvation in the Bible is consistently presented as a gift rather than a reward. A reward is something earned through effort, while a gift is given freely, often without merit. However, the response to that gift—faith, repentance, and obedience—demonstrates that a person has truly received it.

In the case of the rich young ruler (Mark 10:17-27), Jesus told him to obey God's commands, but when the man claimed to have done so, Jesus exposed his heart by asking him to sell everything and follow Him. The man walked away sorrowful, showing that his attachment to wealth was greater than his desire for eternal life. This highlights that salvation isn’t merely about external obedience but about surrender to Christ.

With Zacchaeus (Luke 19:1-10), his repentance and restitution were signs of his changed heart. But Jesus didn't say, "Today you have earned salvation." Instead, He declared, "Today salvation has come to this house." Zacchaeus' actions were the evidence of a transformed heart, not the means by which he achieved salvation.

Paul makes it clear in Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Salvation is God's gift, but genuine faith will always produce obedience and good works (Ephesians 2:10, James 2:17).

So, while obedience is crucial, salvation itself is not a reward for obedience—it is a gift that leads to obedience.

you quoted Mark 10:17-27 and say that Jesus was exposing his heart by telling him the truth, it is either you didn't read the text and study it with the Holy Spirit and you are writing out what men have taught you. Is the purpose of telling us the truth to expose us or to save us?

What is written in Mark is that Jesus loved him and revealed more to him
Mark.10.21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Infact in other gospel accounts it was stated that it was the man who asked Jesus if there was anything he lacked.

This account wasn't the only time Jesus answered a question concerning eternal life and obedience to God. In Matthew 25 when Jesus speaks about the righteous going to eternal life he mentions the good works they did. In Matthew 7 when he rejects those who claim to know him, it is because they did not do the will of God. In that Mark 10 and Matthew 19, Jesus had to answer Peter concerning those of them that gave it all to follow Jesus and Jesus spike about their reward in heaven. Yes the giving wasn't for salvation and for eternal life, it was so the man would have a great reward in heaven seeing as he is going there having obeyed God. It is hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of God because it is hard for them to obey Jesus who teaches us to give, to forsake all.

But then you claim, "salvation isn’t merely about external obedience but about surrender to Christ." Please surrender is obedience, you can't surrender and live life how ever way you want, your surrender is shown by your obedience there is nothing like internal obedience that's a lie of the devil. Jesus said one said he will go but didn't external do anything but one refused but external went and Jesus asked which of the two obeyed, that's in Matt 21. I can still bring out more verses that debunk your believe that salvation is a free gift.

But for now, you quoted Luke 19:1-10
Then you wrote, "But Jesus didn't say, "Today you have earned salvation." Instead, He declared, "Today salvation has come to this house."

Luke.19.9 Jesus responded, "Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a son of Abraham.

Look the fact that you say because it wasn't written earned can be thrown back at you, did Paul wrote salvation is a free gift?....

Thankgod89:
No sir,salvation is not a reward,

Salvation in the Bible is consistently presented as a gift rather than a reward. A reward is something earned through effort, while a gift is given freely, often without merit. However, the response to that gift—faith, repentance, and obedience—demonstrates that a person has truly received it.

In the case of the rich young ruler (Mark 10:17-27), Jesus told him to obey God's commands, but when the man claimed to have done so, Jesus exposed his heart by asking him to sell everything and follow Him. The man walked away sorrowful, showing that his attachment to wealth was greater than his desire for eternal life. This highlights that salvation isn’t merely about external obedience but about surrender to Christ.

With Zacchaeus (Luke 19:1-10), his repentance and restitution were signs of his changed heart. But Jesus didn't say, "Today you have earned salvation." Instead, He declared, "Today salvation has come to this house." Zacchaeus' actions were the evidence of a transformed heart, not the means by which he achieved salvation.

Paul makes it clear in Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Salvation is God's gift, but genuine faith will always produce obedience and good works (Ephesians 2:10, James 2:17).

So, while obedience is crucial, salvation itself is not a reward for obedience—it is a gift that leads to obedience.

now you believe that salvation is consistently presented as a gift but apart from your misunderstanding of Ephesians 2:8 you can't show anywhere where one is thought to be given salvation for doing nothing

Thankgod89:
The entire process of salvation is God’s gift, which includes grace, faith, and being saved. Both salvation and faith are gifts from God.

true it is God's gift, well you have gone from saying salvation is 100% a free gift to saying salvation is attainable.
I can understand us seeing salvation as a gift from God but God doesn't go about dashing salvation.

The rich man asked Jesus how to receive eternal life, Jesus told him to obey God's commands. When Zacchaues repented, offered restitution and obeyed Jesus teaching to give to the poor, that's when Jesus declared that salvation has come to him. Zacchaues didn't do those things for Jesus to come to his house, you can say Jesus accepting his invitation or going to his house was a gift but his decision to submit and obey brought salvation to him.

It is better to call salvation a reward, for the grace of God through Jesus gives us eternal life. While the reward for sin is death. But then we are rewarded only because God is merciful and forgives all our sins and doesn't count any of them but counts only our obedience to him. That is salvation as a result of God's gift

malvisguy212:
very good. Bless you. James complement Paul work. Paul teaches that Abraham believe and James complement the teaching by saying Abraham don't just seat down and claim he believed, he show the evidence of his faith by taken a bold step to sacrifice his son Isaac.

James clearly writes that the works are an evidence of faith not an evidence that a man is saved.

Infact when James writes about faith, he like Paul and Peter say faith leads to salvation, James specifies the kind of faith

Jas.2.14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

Except you are saying faith is salvation instead of faith leads to salvation.

Look the question is, "if salvation is a gift like some teach it, how can one work it out like Paul writes in Philippians 2:12.

Ephesians 2 mentions through faith not by works, and obviously Paul writes what he refers to as works as he usually does, circumcision and laws of Moses, of which our faith isn't based on. James clearly states the works that are a result of our faith that leads to salvation.

What did Jesus teach gives a man eternal life, that he believes hears and disobeys or that he hears and obeys doing God's will

Thankgod89:
I'm not mixing faith and salvation but emphasizing that faith leads to salvation.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Faith is God-given, not something we generate on our own. We believe in what God has done through Christ, and that faith leads to salvation.

Meanwhile James does not contradict Paul but highlights that true faith produces works as evidence of salvation:

you agree that faith leads to salvation
so which is the gift faith or salvation

malvisguy212:
answer this question. When you are saved. How can you show the evidence of a save faith?
Good works are not what a man DOES in order to be SAVED; Good works are what a SAVED MAN DOES .

Now listen, God’s holiness utterly condemns the best man but God grace freely justify the worst.

first off God's holiness doesn't condemn the best man, seeing as the best man is Jesus neither does it even condemn the worst of us who repent, believe and obey God.

Also God's grace doesn't justify the worst, no, Paul wrote those who are called, God justified but we know from what Jesus said not every one called would answer, so, Jesus said, many are called few are chosen. Chosen, elected by grace.

Thankgod89:
I see your point, and I agree that salvation is attainable and secure in Christ (John 10:28). However, while salvation includes eternal life, the ultimate goal is not just receiving eternal life but being fully restored to perfect fellowship with God (Revelation 21:3-4) and conformed to Christ’s image (Romans 8:29).

Salvation is both a gift received and a journey of transformation. Those who are truly saved will bear fruit, not as a means to earn salvation but as evidence of genuine faith (Ephesians 2:10, James 2:17).

James 2:17 you are mixing faith and salvation again. In Ephesians Paul already clarified that faith is the process, through faith and he doesn't refer to salvation as the process because it is the goal that we are saved. It is because the faith required for us to be saved comes from God not from ourselves that makes faith in Jesus whom God sends to us, the gift. Paul wrote this is faith, that we don't think who will send Jesus to us or bring him out from the grave but God has done all that, that we believe what God has done and live by it.

While our relationship with God is being restored through the reconciliation brought by Jesus Christ our way to God. Our full transformation occurs only after we have left his world, as this present body cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and it is not his flesh that is saved but our souls.

Thankgod89:
Salvation and eternal life are not separate; rather, eternal life is an essential part of salvation, not just its ultimate goal and I don’t believe I ever implied otherwise, Mind you the ultimate goal of salvation is not just receiving eternal life but being fully united with God, transformed into the image of Christ, and dwelling with Him forever.

When a person is saved, they immediately receive eternal life (John 3:16, John 5:24). However, the full experience of eternal life will be realized in the future when we are glorified with Christ (Romans 8:30, Philippians 3:20-21).

Also, I’d like to emphasize this: "Someone who merely claims to be saved but does not bear fruit may not truly be saved."

Are these not your very words?
"The ultimate goal is eternal life with God, but salvation is the doorway into that life."

Now you are saying you didn't imply it, and writing that, "ultimate goal of salvation is not just receiving eternal life but being fully united with God, transformed into the image of Christ, and dwelling with Him forever."

Adding more words doesn't change what you wrote.

Anyway this isn't a simple answer to yes salvation and eternal life are the same, because I believe that's what you mean when you write when a person is saved they receive eternal life. And that salvation and eternal life are not separate so they are the same.

malvisguy212:
the work of our salvation is already done. All you have to do is believed.

Now, how can we recognise the saved man, ? We can only recognise him by his good work, this work is not the work of his salvation, is an evidence for a save faith.

Is like you want to go for a journey, you simply enter the car, rest and allowed the car take you to your destination. You are resting on the work of this car .

I do not work my soul to save, That my Lord hath done but I will work like any slave for the love of God dear son.

except that you actually have to drive the car to get to your destination.

The work of salvation is the work towards salvation, so when you say the work is already done you mean the person is already saved then there is no more work needed for the person has entered God's rest.

But then even Paul said he had not yet attained it, or that he should miss it.

If you are referring to the cross of Christ, that work is the foundation of our faith but Jesus never said that once he died there was nothing for us to do. He was asked a number of times concerning eternal life and salvation and his response was obedience to God. Jesus said pick up your cross and follow me.

You wrote of evidence of a saved man, well what is a man saved from, if you say from sin then that means he would never commit a sin till he dies if you say saved from death then it means he would never physically die.

Now the evidence you speak of, is for those who believe and have faith, those whose hope is for the salvation of their souls.

1Pet.1.9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Thankgod89:
Salvation is not merely a means to an end; it includes eternal life but also leads to its full realization in the future.

According to Ephesians 2:8-9, salvation is 100% a free gift—not something we earn. However, receiving salvation marks the start of a lifelong journey, not just a one-time event. The Bible speaks of salvation in different tenses:

Past: "You have been saved" (Ephesians 2: – Justification (declared righteous).

Present: "You are being saved" (1 Corinthians 1:18) – Sanctification (growing in holiness).

Future: "You will be saved" (Romans 5:9-10) – Glorification (final transformation).


Thus, while we don’t work for salvation, we are called to work out our salvation (Philippians 2:12) because God is actively working in us (Philippians 2:13).

You also asked that can Someone Be Saved and Still Perish?

No. If salvation is a gift from God and is received by faith, a truly saved person will not perish (John 10:28). However, someone who merely claims to be saved but does not bear fruit may not truly be saved (Matthew 7:21-23).

Salvation results in a transformed life, but good works are the evidence of salvation, not the requirement for it (Ephesians 2:10).

now from 1 Corinthians 1:18 and Romans 5:9-10 that you quoted we can see the agreement with John 3:16 that salvation is the goal.

Now the basis of the question was on you previously suggesting that salvation is the means of attaining eternal life. But one understands that salvation is eternal life, one would know it is impossible to perish when you have been saved. It shows it as an end goal. Like you quoted John.10.28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me,... and also Matt 7:21-23 of those who confess but do not obey God, would not be saved. So it stands to reason that salvation is attainable.

Good works are actually an evidence of faith which results to salvation for those who please God.

Thankgod89:
Salvation is not merely a means to an end; it includes eternal life but also leads to its full realization in the future.

According to Ephesians 2:8-9, salvation is 100% a free gift—not something we earn. However, receiving salvation marks the start of a lifelong journey, not just a one-time event. The Bible speaks of salvation in different tenses:

Past: "You have been saved" (Ephesians 2: – Justification (declared righteous).

Present: "You are being saved" (1 Corinthians 1:18) – Sanctification (growing in holiness).

Future: "You will be saved" (Romans 5:9-10) – Glorification (final transformation).


Thus, while we don’t work for salvation, we are called to work out our salvation (Philippians 2:12) because God is actively working in us (Philippians 2:13).

You also asked that can Someone Be Saved and Still Perish?

No. If salvation is a gift from God and is received by faith, a truly saved person will not perish (John 10:28). However, someone who merely claims to be saved but does not bear fruit may not truly be saved (Matthew 7:21-23).

Salvation results in a transformed life, but good works are the evidence of salvation, not the requirement for it (Ephesians 2:10).

First off in Ephesians 2, Paul is addressing those who have repented from their former way of life, verse 2- 5... in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. (NIV)

So because of those sins we were dead but then because of God's mercy we are made alive and then by grace we have been saved. Then in verse 8, Paul mentions faith

If we are to say what does Paul mean by works, he usually mentions it in line with circumcision, laws of Moses and the Jews which he does once again in verse 11. But in verse 10 Paul talks about the purpose of our new creation is to do new works which I believe is opposite of the works of sin and the flesh the believers repented from.

Have you tried considering that maybe salvation isn't what Paul is referring to as "it is the free gift of God"

It is not by works, what is not by laws of Moses or circumcision, thats salvation.

If the "it" is salvation, which is not by works but by the gift of God, do you realize then that Paul didn't write that salvation is 100% a gift of God?

Thankgod89:
Salvation is not merely a means to an end; it includes eternal life but also leads to its full realization in the future.

According to Ephesians 2:8-9, salvation is 100% a free gift—not something we earn. However, receiving salvation marks the start of a lifelong journey, not just a one-time event. The Bible speaks of salvation in different tenses:

Past: "You have been saved" (Ephesians 2: – Justification (declared righteous).

Present: "You are being saved" (1 Corinthians 1:18) – Sanctification (growing in holiness).

Future: "You will be saved" (Romans 5:9-10) – Glorification (final transformation).


Thus, while we don’t work for salvation, we are called to work out our salvation (Philippians 2:12) because God is actively working in us (Philippians 2:13).

You also asked that can Someone Be Saved and Still Perish?

No. If salvation is a gift from God and is received by faith, a truly saved person will not perish (John 10:28). However, someone who merely claims to be saved but does not bear fruit may not truly be saved (Matthew 7:21-23).

Salvation results in a transformed life, but good works are the evidence of salvation, not the requirement for it (Ephesians 2:10).

before I give a detailed response to this. Are you now saying that Salvation and eternal life are not two different things anymore but that eternal life is in salvation and not the goal of salvation?

BlackViper:
We don't derive the divine nature of the Triune God from a diagram, rather we get a full picture from Scripture.

The diagram is simply a schematic to help explain what the basic idea of the Trinity is.

where did you find that full picture in scripture?
Where you are told there are three gods God the father god the son god the spirit. Please post the scripture here so we can read it, even if it's not in the scriptures use the gospels and letters and revelations as well.

Antichristian2:
You asked what happened and i told you nothing! Do you expect thunder to strike? When God forgave sins what usually happens?



Allah says what means:
"And O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in Paradise, and eat thereof as you both wish, but approach not this tree otherwise you both will be of the Zalimun (unjust and wrong­doers)." (Qur'an Al Araf 7:19)

No punishment was specified aforehand! But later he was sent to earth!

There's nothing like original sin or fake sin. Sin is sin!


No sin is hereditary! Left outside of which Garden?

the word original in this case relates to origin not necessarily authenticity.

Which you agreed Adam sinned and was kicked out of the garden. Expect you are saying Adam wasn't the first of mankind. And now are you pretending not to know "which Garden" again?

The question still stands if you can answer is, if the consequences of Adam's actions were not inherited according to you, why were he children of Adam left outside the garden or are you saying the children were allowed in, expect Adam who received that as a punishment, according to what you have said?


Now for what you are asking me, I do not expect thunder to stroke and you asked when God forgives sins what usually happens.

To answer that, do you know the story of David who was punished for taking his soldier wife and later killing him, or the story of pharaoh taking Abraham's wife and being punished for it. It is recorded in Genesis that after pharaoh was forgiven and prayed for, the wombs of the women in his house were opened.

I can give you more explains of God's mercy and forgiveness. But to say that God continues to punish a man he has forgiven is that not a lie? To me that is a lie.

Thankgod89:
Salvation is both a gift and the beginning of a journey rather than just the final goal.

When we receive salvation, we are saved from sin and given eternal life (John 3:16), but that’s not the end of the story. Salvation is also a process of transformation where we grow in Christ, becoming more like Him (Romans 8:29). This is why Philippians 2:12 tells us to “work out” our salvation—not to earn it, but to live it out and grow in it.

The ultimate goal is eternal life with God, but salvation is the doorway into that life. It’s like being given citizenship in a new country—you receive it freely, but now you must learn its culture, laws, and way of life.

So, in a way, salvation is not just the end goal; it is the beginning of a lifelong journey of faith, leading to our final glorification with Christ (Philippians 3:20-21).

so you are saying salvation is both a free gift and what you work for? Or you are saying it's just a gift and the beginning of a journey rather than a final goal. If it's the later then your answer to my question is that salvation is not the goal but a means to an end, the end being eternal life.


You defined salvation as being saved from sin and given eternal life but then you say salvation is a means to an end which is eternal life. So you are saying the person didn't receive eternal life when they received salvation.. Right?

Now the verses you quoted

John.3.16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

This verse doesn't differentiate salvation from eternal life like you did. Neither Rom.8.29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Then you explain "work out" in Philippians 2:12 to mean to live in it, to grow in it. The Greek word used there is "katergazesthe" to effect by labor, to achieve. In that very verse and even the next on, Paul writes about obedience which is brought about by God enabling us to obey Him.

According to your explanation salvation means you are already a citizen of God's kingdom, why does Paul then tell them to achieve it by obeying God.


How does one "live out salvation" if it's not to attain it through obedience to God?

Remember the question is if salvation is a free gift why should a person "live it out". Either you are saying a person can be saved and not attain eternal life, or that salvation is free but you have to work for eternal life, so you can be saved and still perish.

Antichristian2:
Original sin is the sin other humans inherit from Adam in Christianity!

He was sent away from the garden!

Nothing happened.

so according to your response and your believe in Islam, God's forgiveness results in nothing?

What was the sin Adam committed and what did God tell him would happen when he did such?

So you don't deny that original sin is the first sin, just that you don't believe that humans inherited the consequences of Adam's actions.

So if it wasn't inherited according to your understanding why were the children of Adam left outside of the garden?

CodeTemplarr:
no...something to be worked out and upon. Or is salvation live chicken to you?

you didn't explain your analogy

Someone gave another a chicken without telling them what to use it for?

And now you are writing salvation is to be worked out and upon, without explaining what that means.

Antichristian2:
Yes, those who died in idolatry/ association of partners to God will be in hell. There's no forgiveness for them!

There's no original sin in Islam. Adam sinned and he was punished! He sought forgiveness and was forgiven!

original sin means first sin, saying there was no first sin and yet saying Adam sinned is confusing. What do you think original sin means?

You said Adam was punished, what was his punishment?

And when he was forgiven what happened?

CodeTemplarr:
yes.

so salvation is something you are supposed to cook and eat, or use for your satisfaction?

Antichristian2:
He was sent to the whole world! Israel is just a subset of the world!

So we should take the Phrase as a lie then! Jesus lied to the canaanite woman that he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel.

is that your answer to the question I asked you of why you are asking?

So according to you Isaiah wrote about Muhammad so what was his message to the Israelites

CodeTemplarr:
If your neighbour dash you free chicken, swallow it alive.

is the chicken supposed to be your analogical synonym with salvation?

Thankgod89:
Salvation is a free gift from God, not something we earn. However, it is our responsibility to respond to it by embracing and living it out. This response is what it means to "work out our salvation."

Think of it like receiving a free gym membership—you didn’t pay for it, but to benefit from it, you need to exercise. Your effort doesn’t earn the membership, but it helps you grow stronger. In the same way, while salvation is a gift, our obedience and spiritual growth enable us to fully experience its transforming power.

so are you saying that salvation is a means to an end and not the end or goal itself?

Antichristian2:
This was referring to another person as Jesus was never mentioned! I can even claim it is Muhammad!

Did Jesus lied he was sent only to Israel?

was Muhammad sent to the Israelites? Was he an Israelite?

Why would you ask if Jesus lied, when you claimed he wrote nor sanctioned any book?

Antichristian2:
Opuro Jesu!

Show us the evidences!

mighty sparrow just posted a verse about an apostle of Allah, is that Muhammad whom you claimed leads you to salvation.

By the way I heard that Islam teaches that there is no salvation through one man as God forgave the original sin Adam committed thereby forgiving all of it, after Adam repented.

Antichristian2:
No other Prophet came after Jesus apart from Muhammad!

As Jesus didn't write anything nor did he sanction any book during his time, anything written after him will need authentication! There's no assurance any Jew wrote anything!

And even if they did write, we know the Jews are not a trustworthy folks!

You quoted Muhammad claim to be closest to Jesus because he is a prophet, I asked you why you believe so and your answer is to say that it's because you believe after Jesus came Muhammad was sent. You make you statements based on your assumptions so they can be disregarded. You claim no Jews wrote anything, they are not trustworthy people. Yet you associate Muhammad to Jesus and Moses

Now you tried to associate Muhammad with Jesus and Moses, so tell us what did Jesus teach, what did Moses teach and what did Muhammad teach

Antichristian2:
All scriptures are usually written by verified and known people unlike the Bible!

The scripture revealed to Moses is definitely not the Old testament you have today!

Also Jesus was not aware of anything in the New testament!

Of course some may be right but it's a mix.

so none of the people who wrote the tanakh were verifiable yet the nation of Israel and to extent Judah held unto the writings, ans kept the practice of the temple forming sects in turn... so none of them was verified?

Now if you claim that the Torah used today wasn't written by Moses, then you should present proof of that or you would be a false accuser.