₦airaland Forum

Antichristian2:
You asked what happened and i told you nothing! Do you expect thunder to strike? When God forgave sins what usually happens?



Allah says what means:
"And O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in Paradise, and eat thereof as you both wish, but approach not this tree otherwise you both will be of the Zalimun (unjust and wrong­doers)." (Qur'an Al Araf 7:19)

No punishment was specified aforehand! But later he was sent to earth!

There's nothing like original sin or fake sin. Sin is sin!


No sin is hereditary! Left outside of which Garden?

the word original in this case relates to origin not necessarily authenticity.

Which you agreed Adam sinned and was kicked out of the garden. Expect you are saying Adam wasn't the first of mankind. And now are you pretending not to know "which Garden" again?

The question still stands if you can answer is, if the consequences of Adam's actions were not inherited according to you, why were he children of Adam left outside the garden or are you saying the children were allowed in, expect Adam who received that as a punishment, according to what you have said?


Now for what you are asking me, I do not expect thunder to stroke and you asked when God forgives sins what usually happens.

To answer that, do you know the story of David who was punished for taking his soldier wife and later killing him, or the story of pharaoh taking Abraham's wife and being punished for it. It is recorded in Genesis that after pharaoh was forgiven and prayed for, the wombs of the women in his house were opened.

I can give you more explains of God's mercy and forgiveness. But to say that God continues to punish a man he has forgiven is that not a lie? To me that is a lie.

Thankgod89:
Salvation is both a gift and the beginning of a journey rather than just the final goal.

When we receive salvation, we are saved from sin and given eternal life (John 3:16), but that’s not the end of the story. Salvation is also a process of transformation where we grow in Christ, becoming more like Him (Romans 8:29). This is why Philippians 2:12 tells us to “work out” our salvation—not to earn it, but to live it out and grow in it.

The ultimate goal is eternal life with God, but salvation is the doorway into that life. It’s like being given citizenship in a new country—you receive it freely, but now you must learn its culture, laws, and way of life.

So, in a way, salvation is not just the end goal; it is the beginning of a lifelong journey of faith, leading to our final glorification with Christ (Philippians 3:20-21).

so you are saying salvation is both a free gift and what you work for? Or you are saying it's just a gift and the beginning of a journey rather than a final goal. If it's the later then your answer to my question is that salvation is not the goal but a means to an end, the end being eternal life.


You defined salvation as being saved from sin and given eternal life but then you say salvation is a means to an end which is eternal life. So you are saying the person didn't receive eternal life when they received salvation.. Right?

Now the verses you quoted

John.3.16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

This verse doesn't differentiate salvation from eternal life like you did. Neither Rom.8.29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Then you explain "work out" in Philippians 2:12 to mean to live in it, to grow in it. The Greek word used there is "katergazesthe" to effect by labor, to achieve. In that very verse and even the next on, Paul writes about obedience which is brought about by God enabling us to obey Him.

According to your explanation salvation means you are already a citizen of God's kingdom, why does Paul then tell them to achieve it by obeying God.


How does one "live out salvation" if it's not to attain it through obedience to God?

Remember the question is if salvation is a free gift why should a person "live it out". Either you are saying a person can be saved and not attain eternal life, or that salvation is free but you have to work for eternal life, so you can be saved and still perish.

Antichristian2:
Original sin is the sin other humans inherit from Adam in Christianity!

He was sent away from the garden!

Nothing happened.

so according to your response and your believe in Islam, God's forgiveness results in nothing?

What was the sin Adam committed and what did God tell him would happen when he did such?

So you don't deny that original sin is the first sin, just that you don't believe that humans inherited the consequences of Adam's actions.

So if it wasn't inherited according to your understanding why were the children of Adam left outside of the garden?

CodeTemplarr:
no...something to be worked out and upon. Or is salvation live chicken to you?

you didn't explain your analogy

Someone gave another a chicken without telling them what to use it for?

And now you are writing salvation is to be worked out and upon, without explaining what that means.

Antichristian2:
Yes, those who died in idolatry/ association of partners to God will be in hell. There's no forgiveness for them!

There's no original sin in Islam. Adam sinned and he was punished! He sought forgiveness and was forgiven!

original sin means first sin, saying there was no first sin and yet saying Adam sinned is confusing. What do you think original sin means?

You said Adam was punished, what was his punishment?

And when he was forgiven what happened?

CodeTemplarr:
yes.

so salvation is something you are supposed to cook and eat, or use for your satisfaction?

Antichristian2:
He was sent to the whole world! Israel is just a subset of the world!

So we should take the Phrase as a lie then! Jesus lied to the canaanite woman that he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel.

is that your answer to the question I asked you of why you are asking?

So according to you Isaiah wrote about Muhammad so what was his message to the Israelites

CodeTemplarr:
If your neighbour dash you free chicken, swallow it alive.

is the chicken supposed to be your analogical synonym with salvation?

Thankgod89:
Salvation is a free gift from God, not something we earn. However, it is our responsibility to respond to it by embracing and living it out. This response is what it means to "work out our salvation."

Think of it like receiving a free gym membership—you didn’t pay for it, but to benefit from it, you need to exercise. Your effort doesn’t earn the membership, but it helps you grow stronger. In the same way, while salvation is a gift, our obedience and spiritual growth enable us to fully experience its transforming power.

so are you saying that salvation is a means to an end and not the end or goal itself?

Antichristian2:
This was referring to another person as Jesus was never mentioned! I can even claim it is Muhammad!

Did Jesus lied he was sent only to Israel?

was Muhammad sent to the Israelites? Was he an Israelite?

Why would you ask if Jesus lied, when you claimed he wrote nor sanctioned any book?

Antichristian2:
Opuro Jesu!

Show us the evidences!

mighty sparrow just posted a verse about an apostle of Allah, is that Muhammad whom you claimed leads you to salvation.

By the way I heard that Islam teaches that there is no salvation through one man as God forgave the original sin Adam committed thereby forgiving all of it, after Adam repented.

Antichristian2:
No other Prophet came after Jesus apart from Muhammad!

As Jesus didn't write anything nor did he sanction any book during his time, anything written after him will need authentication! There's no assurance any Jew wrote anything!

And even if they did write, we know the Jews are not a trustworthy folks!

You quoted Muhammad claim to be closest to Jesus because he is a prophet, I asked you why you believe so and your answer is to say that it's because you believe after Jesus came Muhammad was sent. You make you statements based on your assumptions so they can be disregarded. You claim no Jews wrote anything, they are not trustworthy people. Yet you associate Muhammad to Jesus and Moses

Now you tried to associate Muhammad with Jesus and Moses, so tell us what did Jesus teach, what did Moses teach and what did Muhammad teach

Antichristian2:
All scriptures are usually written by verified and known people unlike the Bible!

The scripture revealed to Moses is definitely not the Old testament you have today!

Also Jesus was not aware of anything in the New testament!

Of course some may be right but it's a mix.

so none of the people who wrote the tanakh were verifiable yet the nation of Israel and to extent Judah held unto the writings, ans kept the practice of the temple forming sects in turn... so none of them was verified?

Now if you claim that the Torah used today wasn't written by Moses, then you should present proof of that or you would be a false accuser.

Kobojunkie:
According to the books of the Gospel, the same Jesus Christ equally made clear through direct word — figures of speech included — that He was sent by His Father only to the bloodline of Jacob.

⚉ In John 6 vs 37-38, Jesus Christ proclaimed, "The Father gives me my people. Every one of them will come to me. I will always accept them. I came down from heaven to do what God wants, not what I want." This statement invariably means Jesus Christ of Israel had no choice in picking the people that would be His; His Father is the one who made the decision as far as the people Jesus Christ was sent.
⚉ In Matthew 15 vs 20, Jesus Christ announced that He was sent by His Father only to the Lost Sheep of Israel— the bloodline of Jacob. By this, He officially declared Himself savior to the race of Israelites and not of any other race — Jesus Christ of Israel.
⚉ In John 3 vs 14 - 18, we learn from Jesus Christ of Israel that the people whom His Father loves — YHWH(God of Israel) were the very same people whom Moses, who was sent before Him, raised the Serpent in the desert to save. He went on to describe them as " the World"(a metonymy, a figure of speech, used as a reference to the condemned of Israel), which God loved.
⚉ In Matthew 7 vs. 6, Jesus Christ of Israel openly warned His followers against giving what is Holy to the dogs — non-Israelites— declaring the dogs incapable of handling that which is Holy — they are unqualified to do so.
⚉ In Matthew 10 vs. 1 - 6, when Jesus Christ of Israel had the opportunity to send His disciples out to announce the Kingdom of God, He sent them only to the Israelites.
⚉ Then, in Matthew 28 vs. 16-20 and Mark 16 s 15 - 18, applying the same metonymy he had earlier used, Jesus Christ of Israel dispersed His followers into the World which He had previously described to His followers.
⚉ To seal it all, in Luke 24, Jesus Christ proclaimed that His Word is Everlasting meaning it can never be changed ---- not by Him, or any human being even after He is dead and gone.

YHWH bestowed on Himself the title of "God of Israel", and this as He gave the name "Israel" only to the man named Jacob. Jesus Christ of Israel, himself a descendant of the bloodline of Jacob who is called Israel, NEVER indicated that He was sent to or came to save non-Israelites. The lie that He did was fabricated entirely by those of the religions of Christianity and Islam.

Isa.49.6 He says, "You will do more than restore the people of Israel to me. I will make you a light to the Gentiles, and you will bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

Antichristian2:
New International Version
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

New Living Translation
Then Jesus said to the woman, “I was sent only to help God’s lost sheep—the people of Israel.”

Isa.49.6 He says, "You will do more than restore the people of Israel to me. I will make you a light to the Gentiles, and you will bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

Antichristian2:
No! Jesus was meant to be be followed by the israelites until Muhammad came!

When Muhammad came he became the Prophet of all mankind!

A prominent hadith, narrated by Abu Huraira, states that Prophet Muhammad said, "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."

he the nearest of all people to Jesus, so tell us why do you believe that?

Seeing as you reject the writings of those who were Jews and had heard from him and about him.

Antichristian2:
But there will be additions and subtractions!

How can you judge with such narrations?

what do you want to judge? Whether the teaching occured or not?

Antichristian2:
The New Testament is based on hearsays mostly as Jesus was not involved at all in its development. It was developed decades after Jesus. If you were told to write down the life story of your dad as you are now you will only be able to write what you witnessed especially when grown!

Those disciple met Jesus when he was about 30 years. It was clear they did incorporate hearsays as evident in what Luke said in Luke 1:1-4.

whether they incorporated hear says or not it doesn't invalidate the gospel. People remember things differently which proofs such a thing actually occurred. If you ask 100 different people about a particular incident they will answer you based on their perspective and memory.

If you go for a lecture all of the students would recall different things does that mean the lecture didn't occur? Of course it doesn't.

Antichristian2:
Yes, now the salvation is based on following Muhammad.

During Muhammad salvation was based on following Jesus.

During Moses's time salvation was based on following him.

so did Muhammad follow Jesus?

Daejumong:
‘ Women were not in the original plans of God’- Pastor Biodun Oladele(General Overseer of Spirit Chapel Int’l Church)

Biodun made this statement with confidence recently on a popular podcast watched by thousands of people and women. He cited Gen 2 where God said it wasn’t good that man be alone and created Eve. He invariably suggested that their creation was an afterthought!

I however completely disagree with Pst Biodun. In Gen 1, He created male and female in His own image.
Gen 1
26 Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us….
27 So God created human beings in his own image.In the image of God he created them;male and female he created them.
28 Then God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it.

Jesus(Son of God) who was present at creation confirmed it in Matthew 19:4

4 “Haven’t you read,” Jesus replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female

Biodun must be careful in making statements which are against those of Jesus. Saying women were not initially in God’s plans paints God as anti women and not all-knowing! He should understand that doctrine is not built with one verse . He should also understand that what God the Son said supersedes any other account in Genesis 2 . I would advise he publicly retracts that statement as such is not healthy for our society!

Daejumong 19/3/2025

It's surprising what some say concerning women, it's almost like they forget they had mothers and it maybe because of their own relationship with their mothers and women in general that make some say what they do. But I see it an inspiration from the devil, who seems to hate women, most especially daughters of God.

If God creating the woman to solve a problem is an evidence of afterthought then Adam also should be an after thought, after all, God saw the need for one to work the ground so he formed Adam from the dust to do so.

The record of God's own words says, that Adam wasn't good as he was. So the woman should be seen as a solution to the state in which God proclaimed Adam to be.

gohf:
Eph.2.8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJV)

Phil.2.12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (NKJV)

Sir, I read this verses and I have a question how can salvation be a gift and I have to work my salvation out with fear and trembling?

To answer this question I ask one question, Paul mentions three things, grace, salvation and faith, so which of these three is actually the gift of God (the 'doron' of God)?

Eph.2.8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJV)

Phil.2.12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (NKJV)

Sir, I read this verses and I have a question how can salvation be a gift and I have to work my salvation out with fear and trembling?

Nicenancy:
Who is this being who was withstood by the prince of persia in Daniel 10:13?

Also, who is this prince of persia?

What actually happened? What is the meaning of that he got withstood?

How many were with the prince of persia?

Thank you

Daniel 10:12-13
[12]Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words.
[13]But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.

A principality and demonic representative of the kingdom of persia

Everyday365:
Prince of Persia is the name of a video game franchise.

😂

Jer.17.10 "I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve."

Rom.8.27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Matt.6.8 Don't be like them, because your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him!

1Cor.15.31 - For I swear, dear brothers and sisters, I face death daily. This is as certain as my pride in what the Lord Jesus Christ has done in you.

JASONjnr:
Nigerian pastor would've been there with paid police officers to guide them from any harm.... While selling handkerchief l, stickers and oil to it's gullible followers for protection......

😂

The building was not God's will nor to God's glory.

God wanted people to spread over the earth and not stay in one place.

Anyway people packing into one place isn't necessarily a good thing, crimes and other problems increase as well with high saturated population. With all the land upon the earth people fight and kill for a piece of land they believe to have more valuable than the rest.

Antichristian2:
If the earliest Christians within the first two centuries after Jesus did not need a New Testament to qualify their faith, why do modern Christians have such a need? If they did not sanction or consider any other writing beside the Old Testament to be scripture, then isn’t it a digression from the ‘true faith‘ of the earliest believers to incorporate something new as scripture? The first New Testament was codified and canonized by the heretic Marcion who believed that the Jewish YHWH was not the true God, the first time the largest Christian Church sanctioned a New Testament was during the 2nd Ecumenical Council of Carthage in 397 CE, some 360+ years after Jesus.

One of the more telling issues with the questioned posed above is that those who have responded to it believe that the question was tricky to answer. I agree it is tricky to answer, that’s the very reason I asked it in the first place! I therefore, don’t find that description of the question to be a problem, it’s more an affirmation that I framed the question properly in the first place. I’m essentially asking one question:

Is the New Testament required to be believed in for salvation in Christianity?

In other words, can someone be a believing Christian without having need for, or being dependent on the New Testament? Can someone reject it and yet, still be saved? This is effectively how the earliest Christians lived, without a New Testament. Some have tried to respond with the following passages:

*“Repent and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:15)
*“believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31)

These verses do not answer my question. What these verses teach is that you should believe in the good news, but it does not require belief in this or that or any other Gospel. The authors of Mark, over its centuries of development, never emended the text to say, “repent and believe in this gospel,” there’s a reason for that, the verse is conveying the point that it’s good to believe in what Jesus brought, i.e. his message, not the documents written by people decades later who never knew him. Rather, what is emphasized for belief is in him, Jesus, not any written work by any man. That’s the point I’m trying to make here. There is no requirement to believe in the New Testament as God’s inspired revelation to be saved in Christianity. Consider for a moment, this very important passage:

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. – 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NIV).

It’s useful for lots of things, except for salvation. This passage does not state that belief in scripture is a requirement to be saved. Scripture is useful for many things, but it’s not a requirement. It’s like the difference between having an umbrella in the rain and not having one. Sure, the umbrella is useful and it is good for many things when it’s raining, but it’s not a necessity or requirement for when you’re going into the outside world. This is the distinction between something’s usefulness and it’s necessity, one is clearly not the other.

So then, the question begs itself, doesn’t it? Do you require the canonized and codified New Testament, to be believed in, as a requirement for your salvation in Christianity? The earliest Christians did not seem to think so, so why do you?

and God knows best.

The new testament is based on the words and teachings of Jesus which they learnt and taught others, having a record of those teachings in the present day is a blessing but even if we didn't we have the Holy Spirit to teach us all things.

The early church heard the teachings of Jesus either directly or from those who heard them directly and they used scriptures to verify and show that Jesus is indeed the Messiah promised by God. Scripture has always been what is referred to as the old testament or the Tanakh. The scripture reveal Jesus, while the gospel is the power of God unto salvation. So while scripture cannot save you, the gospel can.

When you believe in God's word through his son Jesus Christ, you obey it and follow it. The issue is when men place their faith in documents and in letters rather than in God and follow His Spirit that He has sent to us.

Antichristian2:
Salvation in Islam is the deliverance from sins and the admittance into Paradise! The key components include Iman (Faith), righteous deeds, sincere repentance and submission to the will of Allah by following the Prophet he sent.

so your salvation is based on following Muhammad?

Antichristian2:
Read the OP!

I wont

Phil.3.2-3 Watch out for those dogs, those wicked men and their evil deeds, those mutilators who say you must be circumcised to be saved. For we who worship God in the Spirit are the only ones who are truly circumcised. We put no confidence in human effort. Instead, we boast about what Christ Jesus has done for us.


Being like Christ doesn't mean been zealous for the law and it's benefits, no matter how great or organized it may seem, should we disobey God who tells us to listen to Jesus even in the presence of the law and prophets, when He could have said listen to all of them like Peter's 3 tents would suggest?

You may tell yourself you cannot leave because you will lose a lot. Paul wrote.

Phil.3.7 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.

Paul once thought all those things were so very important, but now he considered them worthless because of what Christ has done. And yet there are those who consider such things valuable to gaining prosperity, popularity and acceptance, so they preach and practice it and persecute those who don't or who speak against it.

You know, Paul was set up a few times because what he preached was against what they believed, and even with such a disadvantage and lack of benefits that he once enjoyed when he was with them, Paul writes

Phil.3.8 - 9
Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the priceless gain of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I may have Christ and become one with him. I no longer count on my own goodness or my ability to obey God's law, but I trust Christ to save me. For God's way of making us right with himself depends on faith.


How many of us consider knowing Jesus more valuable than what we may have gained if we didn't know him and forsook all to follow him? This would obviously sound strange to those who believe they follow Jesus without a cross but understandable to those who actually do. The cost of knowing Jesus, following him, being his discipline and being like him may discourage some but it is worth it.

Someone asks you what drives you, can you grab them and shout

THAT I MAY KNOW HIM AND THE POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION, AND THE FELLOWSHIP OF HIS SUFFERINGS, BEING CONFORMED TO HIS DEATH, IF, BY ANY MEANS, I MAY ATTAIN TO THE RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD.

I would prefer to avoid Philippians 3:10-11 than to say it normally or casually.


Phil.3.15 - 16 I hope all of you who are mature Christians will agree on these things. If you disagree on some point, I believe God will make it plain to you. But we must be sure to obey the truth we have learned already.


Being like Christ means coming to know him, to follow and obey him. Do you understand what we stand to gain even though we suffer in his name.

Phil.3.18 - 21
For I have told you often before, and I say it again with tears in my eyes, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Chris[/b]t. Their future is eternal destruction. [b]Their god is their appetite, they brag about shameful things, and all they think about is this life here on earth. But we are citizens of heaven, where the Lord Jesus Christ lives. And we are eagerly waiting for him to return as our Savior. He will take these weak mortal bodies of ours and change them into glorious bodies like his own, using the same mighty power that he will use to conquer everything, everywhere.


[Some of you even after reading this will continue to follow them, but nevertheless while we live on earth]


Let everyone see that you are considerate in all you do. Remember, the Lord is coming soon. Don't worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. If you do this, you will experience God's peace, which is far more wonderful than the human mind can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus.

I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. For Christ gives me the power to do all this. (Philippians 4:5-7, 12-13)


Even though we suffer, God will supply all we need and reward those who give generously and out of kindness to those in need, it may be tough but the cross is worth carrying to be like Christ both in life and in death.

God bless.