₦airaland Forum

SonofElohim1379:
Soo much writing and obfuscation without making sense. Your argument is simply all over the place

Observe this scripture carefully

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

If God the Father Glorifies Jesus with his own self, what does it imply?

Have you forgotten that Yeshua is the word of God? Can God be seperate from his Word?

It's just common sense and needs no further arguments

oh KJV has NKJV you know
John.17.5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

How can what I wrote not make sense to you but KJV language does, dont you see there's something wrong with you.

Can God be separate from his word?
Do you even read your Bible or is it there as a poetry book of thou and thy

He sent forth His word, and healed them. calling it God's word doesn't separate God from His word, His word doesn't have to be a god for it to agree (be one) with God. God's word na messenger

DaddyCoool:
So what is he AND why did the Father raise him from literally death to be worshipped with him as God all these centuries??
Why not just simply let him stay dead and avoid the blasphemy??

God didn't do that, you people did

SonofElohim1379:
Okay here are the verses


John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

John 13:32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him. John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:


John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Any more questions?

Okay I have more time now, so you say these verses above show that "Christ was glorified as God" yet NONE of them, NOT ONE of them states that Jesus Christ is glorified as god or becomes a god.

First verse from John 12:28, let's read from verse 27


John.12.27 - Now my soul is deeply troubled. Should I pray, 'Father, save me from what lies ahead'? But that is the very reason why I came!
John.12.28 - Father, bring glory to your name." Then a voice spoke from heaven, saying, "I have already brought it glory, and I will do it again."

Jesus was troubled and prayed, he was not a god but a man before God and the next verse doesn't show Christ being glorified as a god.

Next John 13
John.13.31 - As soon as Judas left the room, Jesus said, "The time has come for me, the Son of Man, to enter into my glory, and God will receive glory because of all that happens to me.
John.13.32 - And God will bring me into my glory very soon. (This is NLT)


Now NIV
John.13.32 If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once. (NIV)

Still doesn't state that Jesus Christ was glorified as a god or was to be glorified as a god. But will be glorified in GOD

Even we who make it will be glorified
Rom.8.18 Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will give us later.
Rom.8.30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

So because we will be glorified doesn't mean we will be glorified as God..

Okay John 16

John.16.13 - When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not be presenting his own ideas; he will be telling you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.
John.16.14 - He will bring me glory by revealing to you whatever he receives from me.
John.16.15 - All that the Father has is mine; this is what I mean when I say that the Spirit will reveal to you whatever he receives from me.

The Holy Spirit will glorify Jesus by revealing his words to us which Jesus received from the Father. As simple and straightforward as this statement is please surprise me by understanding it.

John 17, let's read from 1 to 5, and not skip verses shall we

John.17.1 - When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he looked up to heaven and said, "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son so he can give glory back to you.
John.17.2 - For you have given him authority over everyone in all the earth. He gives eternal life to each one you have given him.
John.17.3 - And this is the way to have eternal life--to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.
John.17.4 - I brought glory to you here on earth by doing everything you told me to do.
John.17.5 - And now, Father, bring me into the glory we shared before the world began.


Now where God is is glorious that's why we have hope for that glory, to enter into glory, if you had such hope you wouldn't be making such silly mistakes and accusing that this verses means Christ is glorified as a god.

Do you understand what it means for Jesus to be glorified and return glory back to God. Do you understand the great importance of being resurrected after a public roman execution, overcoming death. This isn't just overcoming poverty or sickness, but overcoming the biggest insurmountable problem of humanity, death.

And that's why we believe that Jesus, like he said in verse two, has received authority to give us eternal life.

Jesus whom you falsely accused as a god, said there's is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, so you also accuse him of lying against God or declaring himself as a false god who glorified himself??

But Jesus didn't, he humbled himself and OBEYED ALL God commanded of him. Jesus the sinless man is not God and didn't become a god.

SonofElohim1379:
How does it Contradict?

What does verse 11 say in that same Phillipians?

post it let see what verse 11 says...
To the glory of God not to his own glory.

kingxsamz:
The god is not wise sha.
Now he's struggling to win souls when all he had to do was keep that serpent away from the garden. To even show you how unwise the god is, he decided to protect the garden from outsiders only after Adam and Eve had been tempted by the serpent.
Like I said, even Tinibooo would have made better decisions, and Tinibooo himself is a very duII president.

struggling to win 😏 didn't he flood the earth and spare just 8 humans that's the kind of finger snapping you wanted. Problem is, would you even survive it?


Protect it from Adam, whom he kicked out. Don't know who you think he should have protected it from before.

Well tinibooo is your Lord, maybe his better decisions will save you someday 👍

SonofElohim1379:
Okay here are the verses


John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

John 13:32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him. John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:


John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Any more questions?

you didn't answer the question
According to you what John wrote in this five verses show that Christ was glorified as God and contradicts the Philippians 2:9-11 I quoted. Right?

Dtruthspeaker:
See, even you know spelt it "lord" with small letters and not Lord/LORD as is usually used in reference of Jesus.

So, you already know that this answer is invalid as Sarah was not referring to Abraham as Jesus Christ.



O this offended you! I apologize. I thought you overlooked it knowing I was trying to say verse 33.

And in my eagerness to get to the Truth of the matter I overlooked that you could be offended by my query.

I respectfully apologize.

apology accepted...

There's a difference between some translations use of LORD and Lord, LORD is actually YHVH while Lord is a title not a name, a title like King

If I write jesus you still know he's Jesus and I used Sarah as an example of the usage of the word Lord not LORD.

Now YHVH can be called Lord-Adonia but any Lord cannot be called YHVH.

That's why it says in Psalm 110: YHVH said to my Lord...

Dtruthspeaker:
Ok.

I was just taking note of the fact that your bible was different and that being different it would mislead you in thinking that Jesus is not God

doing worry about that I have and have read multiple versions and translation, also with Greek and Hebrew texts as well, and the Septuagint.

SonofElohim1379:
Any more questions?

Please next time past the verses as text not photo, nairaland isn't that convenient to use.

John 12:28; 13:32; 16:4; 17:1&5
According to you what John wrote in this five verses show that Christ was glorified as God and contradicts the Philippians 2:9-11 I quoted. Right?

DaddyCoool:
I'll TEACH you patiently as I taught the other guy. All I ask is that you show some appreciation:

There is only ONE God and he has always been, and he has always been by himself. BUT he has also ALWAYS had a "son" (remember, he was by himself yet has always had a "son"}. Then some 2000 years ago a human body was prepared and this "son" dwelt in that body to accomplish some assignments on earth, after which he returned to the "Father".
If there is any part you don't understand tell me let me clarify

so you refuse to believe what is revealed because of this

DaddyCoool:
Christ is eternal - has ALWAYS been with the Father

so he never came, he never taught, he never died nor rose.

Like I said, you are not wise enough to propagate a lie. Tell me why do you believe such lies?
And don't say because it makes sense, anyone who evaluates your sensibility would disagree with you. So why do you believe

Dtruthspeaker:
Now you are confusing me even more and it seems like you are running from properly settling this.

I do not understand the connection are you saying Jesus the son of God is not God, which violates even the commands God gave which predates the laws of Moses?

And this is another issue which is going to confuse things, since we already disagree on the issue of Jesus being God.

So, if you truly believe you are right let us focus on this sole issue and I started first by asking you

1) if Jesus is not God, how then and why then is He called, Lord?

2) And based on your Isaiah 33. Did Jesus not confirm that He is coming to Judge?

So if you could settle these questions, then we can see who is right or wrong

1. Lord does not mean God, even Sarah called Abraham lord. Jesus is Lord and husband of the church, his bride.

2. You made a mistake, and quoted the wrong verse but instead of taking correction, you attacked the verse I wrote. Do you think such a person is worth speaking to?

DaddyCoool:
Adam was CREATED

and Jesus is not the son of God because Mary did not give birth to him?

.

DaddyCoool:
How can God have son. Who is the mother? Why have only one

who is the mother of Adam?

DaddyCoool:
I only said Christ has to be God. What else can he be??

the son of God.

SonofElohim1379:
Christ was fully Glorified as God by the Father after completing his works on earth.

At the mention of the name "Yeshua" all knees must bow, in heaven, on earth and below the earth and proclaim that "Yeshua" is God to the Glory of God the Father


Any more questions?

where did you see or read that Christ was glorified as God?

Please don't use your imagination to answer.

This is what is written in Philippians:2

Yet it was because of this that God raised him up to the heights of heaven and gave him a name which is above every other name, that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (9-11)

You can change it and lie all you want but the lie would never become true because many people want it to be.

DaddyCoool:
NO, genius! Of course light is not the sun. I pointed that out long ago as the flaw in the analogy, saying there are nuclear reactions in the sun!

now you have no analogy even in creation that shows it's agrees with such because it's a lie even nature denies yet you go against nature to believe it, why?

I want to know why you believe the trinity and Jesus is God?
Because honestly unlike the rest you are horrible as defending that nonsense so there must be another reason.

Nachmonides:
If truly you understood the doctrine of Trinity, you would know it opposes the idea of God splitting, changing, and evolving.

The doctrine of Trinity explicitly states that God is one being in essence, but exists in three persons. This does not imply that God "split" into three separate entities.

Even the council of Nicaea folks like to reference doesn't say anything contrary.
Please go and learn about the doctrine of Trinity, before arguing against it. I'm not here to lecture you on it.

I'm here to talk with someone who understands it and yet opposes it.

so is God now one or is He three

If you say God is both one and three, then in what realm does he exist as one and in what realm does he exist as three

If you say in the same realm, then doesn't that count has four, God who is one and God who is three

Now if you say it is Godhood or Godship, it means there is no God but a title shared by three entities, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The question now is how did they attain the title since you say it is just one title, God?


Guy the reason you also run as nothing to do with my understanding that rubbish and nonsense called trinity, but your reaction as darkness to light, as the blind to God's revelation and to a wisdom you cannot gainsay on.

You want to ignore that you believe of John 1:1 that the word was God and John 1:14 the word became flesh. Means God became flesh, so did he lose his godhood so as to die but then, he doesn't change but you believe he did... meaning he is a false god, a lying one you believe in.

Those questions I asked above you will ignore and run as usually but it's okay.

DaddyCoool:
See my previous post. Infact here it is:

Have you been following at all? I already said that's the flaw in that analogy

The question remains

Is light the sun? Yes or no, I didn't expect you to answer the first few times and neither have I seen you as wise so you can ignore the question again. It is expected from you.

SonofElohim1379:
Where did i ever claim or say I'm the Christ to become a false Christ to begin with?

you are falsely representing Christ by claiming he is a god.

DaddyCoool:
Have you been following at all? I already said that's the flaw in that analogy

you believe a flaw and a lie and you know it is false, so you cant even claim ignorant and yet you reject the truth.

Meaning Nachmonides is running and hiding like I said he has been doing, using John 1 as excuse.

But where would the blind run to, pardon

DaddyCoool:
Of course from human perspective it is. But these things are not of human perspective. These are things that exist outside our dimension, outside time and space

Father God = sun
The Christ = light

You believe Christ is God
So, is light the sun?

DaddyCoool:
Do you people at all think b4 you write.
Just as they were always with the Father, heat and light were always with the sun.

You that think you can't answer simple question

"is the light the sun, or the heat the sun?" Yes or No

SonofElohim1379:
Yes

and many false christs will arise

could you please tell us why you accepted to become a false Christ?

Truthseeker10:
That is the problem that they have. They do not know how to split the core essence into three seperate parts because that will mean that the essence(God) does not exist anymore.

@ Nachmonides aka Mr.Essence

Truthseeker10:
Ah🤣🤣🤣.... so you cannot draw out a flawless analysis of your Trinity concept but you want us to accept it. The same you is telling us not to accept the another drawing of another Trinity concept because the drawing is flawed. Are you not an hypocrite?🤣🤣🤣

he or she is @daddycoool is a hypocrite

A flawless analysis would have been: GOD, His Son and His Spirit. 😀

But they want to draw triangle and prism and all kinds of diagrams and shapes to bend and blend it all in.

Truthseeker10:
The diagram is clear. GOD consist of three Persons (the Father, the son, the holy spirit) simultaneously. The three persons combine simultaneously to form the word 'GOD'. The diagram shows that there cannot be a 'GOD' without the three persons combining.

the question they have to answer now is, did God split into three persons having the same essence which is what they believe trinity means

The father is God, the son is God, the Holy Spirit is God and all three are one God

Here's how Deeper Life put it

They believe in Trinity that is three distinct personalities in Godhead, the father, the Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. The father is God, The son is God and the Holy Spirit is God and yet there is one God.

The question is if God split into three, then trinity is a believe that GOD YHVH doesn't exist anymore.

This is why it's a lie, a heresy, a blasphemy and a doctrine of idolatry.

DaddyCoool:
I have to assume you are NOT really dumb but only acting dumb.
I already told you there is nothing in our reality that can analogize God and his manifestations.

I'm sure you instinctively know that God is unknowable to us. He is a capital MYSTERY that we only vaguely sense through his effects. God is pure spirit, totally immaterial, and if we only knew how laughable are our feeble attempts to represent Him in illustration!

This diagram below is as good as any we can come up with

so at some point the sun didn't shine light till Jesus came, and then there had been no heat till the Holy Spirit came.

Now is the light the sun, or the heat the sun?

Dtruthspeaker:
Your bible is adding to God's Word. "saving" is an act and proof of care. So this is clearly a tautology and proof that someone has added to the bible to bend it as it may please them.

And this is another reason why you cannot appreciate that Jesus is God. The bible you are using is misleading you.

Isaiah 33:22
22 For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king; he will save us.

if that was the point of my post, this response would have been relevant don't you think

Dtruthspeaker:
So this one is settled



Let us re argue this reasonably, again

If Jesus is not God, how then and why then is He called, Lord?

And based on your Isaiah 33. Did Jesus not confirm that He is coming to Judge?

if you can't understand from what I wrote why Jesus the son of God is not God, which violates even the commands God gave which predates the laws of Moses as you said, I can't help you.

Go and find the difference between YHVH said to Adonai

For Jesus the Messiah is our Adonai not YHWH God.