₦airaland Forum

The "Veil" Removed · Wednesday, September 4th ·

Pastor Chris

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (2 Corinthians 3:15-17).

When men don’t understand the Word of God, it’s because there’s a veil covering their hearts. It’s like what happened with the Law of Moses, in the Old Testament:
the children of Israel couldn’t see the glory beyond the veil. Our opening verse tells us that even until this day, when "Moses," that is, "the Law," is read, that veil is still
present; it’s only taken away in Christ. In other words, when you received salvation in accordance with Romans 10:9, the Lordship of Jesus destroyed the power of darkness over your life and took away the veil from your heart.

At the New Birth, you were catapulted into the Kingdom of Light; the Kingdom of God’s dear Son. Colossians 1:12-13 says, "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son."

The Holy Spirit accomplished this in your life when He baptized you into Christ: "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body…" (1 Corinthians 12:13); that body is Christ. Christ is "Light"; so upon the New Birth, the Holy Spirit baptized you into the "Light," and you became awakened to the Fatherhood of God. Thus was the veil removed from your heart to walk in the light of God, and understand spiritual realities.

Prayer
Dear Father, I thank you for making me a partaker of the inheritance of the saints in light! I pray for the salvation of souls all over the world today; I rebuke the prince of the power of the air, and break his dominion over men’s lives, so that the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ might shine in their hearts, bringing them salvation, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

f u r t h e r s t u d y: Ephesians 2:4; Colossian 1:12

Daily Scripture Reading

1 Year Reading Plan : 2 Corinthians 2:5-3:1-6, Proverbs 14-15
2 Year Reading Plan : Luke 20:39-47 1 Samuel 23

Yawns...another (Community of Yahweh church) Cele church member, pls I cnt strt all over again

*unfollows thread

^^
Here we go again



*unfollows thread

Bidam: I think you got my post wrong. I am in agreement.

Twas directed to Benalvino sir


I know you are in sync with the scriptures

^^ oga benalvino, tongues aint prayer, but WE PRAY IN TONGUES

What did Jude mean by "praying in the Holyghost"

Or what paul meant by "Praying in the spirit"

1corithn 14v14-15 AMP

14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit [by the Holy Spirit within me] prays, but my mind is unproductive [it bears no fruit and helps nobody].
15 Then what am I to do? I will pray with my spirit [by the Holy Spirit that is within me], but I will also pray [intelligently] with my mind and understanding; I will sing with my spirit [by the Holy Spirit that is within me], but I will sing [intelligently] with my mind and understanding also.


Stop shooting urself in the foot

^^ I much agree too but praying in tongues out loud in church or public aint wrong either. Except you were being a nuisance in the given area, eg praying out loud in lecture rooms, etc ie use wisdom to pray depending on the environment you are.

When Paul and Silas were praying in Act 16v25, Luke recorded this

New Living Translation
25 Around midnight Paul and Silas were praying and
singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were
listening.


It wasn't a private/quiet/whispering prayer. Luke was outside the prison, how then did he hear the prayer sounds if it wasn't very loud enough?


When Jesu was prayin sef in John 17, how did John record every detail of it if it weren't loud enough.

Bidam: I am really sorry bro,i don't want to sound rude but let me say that when it comes to this subject matter you re so ignorant. And i don't want you to be ignorant concerning spiritual gifts.

As a matter of fact i will be going right now for a ministration,i believe God has given Gombs my brother the grace to handle all your queries.

I will chip in one or two things tomorrow.Stay blessed.

Aii sir, I'd leave them sef...they ask redundant questions and misquote Paul and Jesus.

Candour: My dear bro, Paul expressly said tongues are a sign for unbelivers:

Mark 16v15 Jesus said

17 And these signs will accompany those
who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;


don't you think you are confused and confusing Paul's writings?

he used tongues when preaching to natives of the different places he went for evangelism.

you mean now if God sends me to brazil or saudi arabia to preach, he'd install portuguese or arabic instantly? See mega confusion abeg. Reinhard Boonke has being preaching all over the world, why did he have interpreters in most cases? Is it that God is delaying installing the languages or is it that he's not believed enough?

If he prayed in tongues, its strictly between him and God [s] and he would never have brought it to show off in Church. [/s]

Show off?? Lol
So if I wanna pray in tongues I shd whisper it because I don't want you to think I'm showing off? When paul was saying I speak in tongues more than you all, it wasn't showing off shey?

My bro, u see pastors today spice up their preaching with tongues and some even sing in tongues leaving the congregants confused and bewildered. Am sure u know all these

1 corinth 14v15 NIV
15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

must you argue?

Kenny4lyfe: **Imagine me praying**


Dear heavenly father, please forgive me....
Give me....
**breaks-out with a song**
Holy Ghost!
Do it again.... {You know the rest}!
Then... **falls asleep while at it**


Except the JWs they're different...
They simply...
Don't pray... At all!

Funny, aint it?

Candour: I am glad you accepted that prophecy is greater than tongues in the congregation of believers. If you read 1Cor 14 all thru, Paul wasn't bothered whether it was praying in tongues or preaching in tongues(whatever that means). The summary of the chapter is that in the gathering of believers, pls pocket your tongues except someone can interprets otherwise you're a nuisance to the church.

As per Jude 20, I wonder how praying in the holy ghost translates to speaking in tongues. Am still on my phone now and can't really do a long treatise.

Cheers

Na wa o

Didn't you see me write praying in tongues is diff from speaking (preaching) in tongues

In case you dnt knw praying in the holyghost is same as praying in tongues

1 corinth 14v14 NASB

For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

Oya quick quiz...did paul pray in tongue? Did he preach in tongues to the congregation?
In churches today, do they pray in tongues or preach in tongues?

I await your answers

Bidam: My brother..i said we should discuss not argue about this from a scriptural standpoint.Even with your copy paste article i still addressed some part where the Op goofed big time.I no try?

Asper Jesus speaking in tongues is a lame excuse.Gombs has addressed the issue.Moreso Jesus was a man like us yet he prayed all night alone. What did you think he was doing all night?Speaking aramaic to God abi?

Can you speak english to God all through the night?

Without the Help of the Holy Spirit we can do nothing bro.

I can pray in tongues for 5hrs without being tired.It takes the Holy Spirit my brother.

This got me cracking up...

Nice question...oya answer can you pray with your understanding all night? Even if you punctuate it with plenty songs you can't.

Candour: Brother, your write up is actually begging the question.i Ccalled tongues a lesser gift and you questioned it by asking which was a worse sin in Gal 5:19-21. I gave you the bible's position on the issue. If the bible calls it a lesser gift, my bro I believe it because that is what it is.

God is more interested in the greater good of his children and prophecy does more good than speaking in tongues(in a congregation of believers) will ever do.

God bless u

True !
Prophecy does more good WHILE PREACHING/TEACHING than speaking in tongues. I don't doubt that, Paul said so in 1 corint 14v5

Dnt get confused na. There's no place in the bible anybody preached in tongues...No place in Nigeria anybody does that too(but maybe in the near future, the church of God would)...but people in the bible PRAYED IN TONGUES...na wa o

Hope you get the two? If you don't understand praying in tongues, pls what did you think Jude 20 was talking abt? And 1 corinth 14v14-15?

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

Jude 20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,


Notice in 1corith 14 paul spoke abt speaking in tongues, praying in tongues, praising in tongues and singing in tongues. It was wen comparing prophesy which is teaching/preaching the brethren and using tongues to preach-he tried pointing out which would be beneficial more.

Get the diff pls.
I pray in tongues like paul did, and I don't preach in tongues like Paul didn't . But your case looks like I'm teaching/preaching in tongues

Frank4YAHWEH: So, do you believe that believers should speak in tongues? If not, then I can not see how you can admire Bidam's persistence, since this is what he is teaching. Also, I have yet to see him post anything concerning the glad tidings ["gospel"] of Father Yahweh's Kingdom. His professing to speak in tongues is obviously a lie and this I can not admire. Now he has taken this doctrine of speaking in tongues even futher and is erroneously teaching one "should pray in an UNKNOWN tongue." There is no such thing as an "UNKNOWN" language. The language has to be known to the one who is to interpret it.

I speak in tongues daily for no less than 20mins

You shd try it...ask The Holy spirit to give you utterance

Are you a Believer of Jesus' Teachings/Gospel?

If yes, What do you understand by what Jesus said in Mark 16v17-18 MSG

17-18 “These are some of the signs that will accompany believers: They will throw out demons in my name, they will speak in new tongues, they will take snakes in their hands, they will drink poison and not be hurt, they will lay hands on the sick and make them well.”

benalvino: He was looking for errors and things he points out as errors are not even error...
i will address him later... me and bidam agree on other things but not this one... Jesus did not even speak in tongues... aka Gibs

Gombs: VI.WHY DIDN'T JESUS SPEAK IN TONGUES?

Actually, I'm not totally sure that He didn't. Jesus
rejoiced in the Spirit (Luke 10:21,) and groaned in the Spirit (John11:33.) This terminology is very similar to the term "Praying in the Spirit," which Paul uses to describe praying in tongues (1 Corinthians 14: 14-16.)

However, even if Jesus did not speak in tongues, there are several possible explanations:

1.Since He was God, there were no languages He
didn't know.

2.Since He was sinless, He had perfect communication
with the Father, and therefore, He did not need
tongues.

3.He was the last person to function as a prophet
under the Old Covenant. Tongues are a New Testament phenomenon. Even if Jesus didn't personally speak in tongues, He Himself stated that tongues would be a normative sign to follow believers (Mark 16:17). The entire New Testament was written by people who spoke in tongues.

I've answered this na. Stop being redundant. If you don't agree with my answer put up a worthy challenge against it

Bidam: It is really a shame that you had to rush in and support an article without reading the contents as a bible scholar that you claim you are. And to say this is the guy that taught us in the grace convention.Chei!

Bidam: Since i am slow in typing i have spent productive hours replying that erroneous post sef AND I BELIEVE all is a waste because of this guy unbelief. Wish he could study scriptures and not rely on creepy materials.That's cheating on his part.It is really a one sided debate.I am done here jare.

abeg wait for me

Candour: See what the bible said
1Cor 14:5
'I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied:for greater is he that prophesied than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interprete, that the church may receive edifying'

My bro, this verse makes it clear some gifts will always be greater than tongues.

Two scenarios here

1. So, in other words, he was wrong in 1 corinth 14 verse 2 AMP?

For one who speaks in an [unknown] tongue speaks not to men but to God, for no one understands or catches his meaning , because in the [Holy] Spirit he utters secret truths and hidden things [not obvious to the understanding].

From your analogy of one being greater than the other, Is speaking to men higher than speaking to God?

2. Paul was simply saying in verse 5 that he wish that we might all speak in [unknown] tongues, but more especially [he wants us] to prophesy (to be inspired to preach and interpret the divine will and purpose).


WHY?
Because speaking in tongues according to verse 2 is speaking unto God and not men. Speaking in tongues won't edify the other, because you are speaking to God not man, and men would not understand what you are saying because their understanding would be unfruitful (v14) . Except that you can interpret the tongues so that the brethren can be edified.

He went further and said that he who prophesies [who is inspired to preach and teach] is greater (more useful and more important to the brethren at the time of preaching/teaching) than he who speaks in [unknown] tongues,



WHY? Because he who prophesy speaks unto men and not God. He is teaching and preaching, that the brethren would be edified. That's why in my other post above, I said there is NO PLACE in the bible Paul or anybody preached or taught in tongues. Simply because according to verse 2 above no one will understand or catch his meaning.

He went further to say that unless he should(the one speaking in tongues) interpret [what he says], so that the church may be edified and receive good from it .

You see why you need study the scriptures by the holyspirit?

Imagine your pastor preaching in unknown tongues, would you be edified at d end of the service?

benalvino: it means you did not read my post.... your answer is wrong.

Nice observation..just read d first 12 lines...it almost gave me a migraine

Cheers man!

NB
Your copy and paste was/is grossly and hopelessly wrong

benalvino: Sorry mate that is far from the answer...

you post a question and answer stuff... with no real debate to it...
if that is what you use to justify my brother u are lost at the moment

See a question

[quote author=
Candour]@benalvino
I agree with this write up. Tongues was described by
the Bible as one of the least of spirit gifts but you
wonder how Christians have elevated it to be the
most important second only to salvation.[/quote]See the answer

VII. ARE TONGUES THE LEAST OF THE GIFTS? ARE THEY REALLY THAT IMPORTANT?

In 1 Corinthians 12, the Apostle Paul gives us a
basic primer on the nine Gifts of the Holy Spirit:
Wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy,
discernment, tongues and interpretation of tongues.
Since tongues and interpretation are the last Gift
Paul mentions, some have taken this to mean that
tongues are the least important of the Gifts, and
that we shouldn't really be concerned with them.
However, I would respectfully reply that this
argument is based on a very presumptuous and
inconsistent approach to Biblical interpretation.
Chronological order of how something is listed is not
necessarily an indication of importance. For
example, in 1 Corinthians 13:13 , Paul tells us that
faith, hope, and love remain, yet the greatest of
these is love, in spite of the fact that it is listed
last. Likewise, in a list of sinful activities recorded
in Galatians 5:19-21 , murder is named near the
end of the list. Does that mean that
murder is a less serious sin than the others? Of
course not. Paul definitely did not view tongues as being unimportant. In fact, he devotes an entire chapter in the Bible to teaching on the subject (1
Corinthians 14). In this chapter, he tells the
Corinthian believers that he desires that they all
speak in tongues (verse 5), and
thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than all
of them! (verse 18) Three times in Scripture we are
exhorted to covet (Pursue with passion) the Gifts
of the Holy Spirit-including tongues (1 Corinthians
12:31; 14:1, 39, the same Greek word is used in all
of these Scriptures.) Note that this is worded as a
commandment, not an option. To downplay or
dishonor any of God's gifts is to dishonor God
Himself. May we never, ever fall into this trap.

I answered him too well, and asked him a question too in hope you and/or him would answer.

See the question
In a list of sinful activities recorded in Galatians 5:19-21 , murder is named near the end of the list. Does that mean that murder is a less serious sin than the others? Does it mean he listed the gifts of the spirit in a particular order of relevance?


As for the other questions I asked I answered, was in case you or any other brings it up, you'd have a ready answer.

Gombs: Hello OP


let me point out and answer (not attempt to answer) the lingering questions in hope to put rest to this issue (which I knw will still linger on tho). If anyone still wanna be contentious, may God help him/her in search for the truth.


I.WHAT IS SPEAKING IN TONGUES?

First,let's look at a few things that speaking in tongues
is NOT:

1.Tongues are NOT a status symbol, indicating that one
Christian is more spiritual than another. The Corinthian
church was a hotbed of tongues speaking, yet the
Apostle Paul still chastised them for being carnal (1
Corinthians 3:3.)

2.Tongues are not a shortcut to instant spiritual
maturity.

3.Tongues are not a hypnotic, zombie like state in which the person has no control of his faculties.
Speaking in tongues is, to put it simply, Holy Spirit
inspired speech in a language unknown to the speaker.

As we will examine, it can be spoken in a Christian's private prayer life, or in a public worship service with
interpretation. People have a natural hunger for the supernatural. Unfortunately, many turn to the false, satanic supernatural found in psychics, the New Age,and other cultic activity rather than seeking the true supernatural power of God. This is tragic. God is a supernatural God!
He can fulfill the deepest longings of our hearts with
His love and power. Tongues are one of the avenues that He works through in order to do this.


II. ARE TONGUES STILL IN OPERATION TODAY?

Yes, there are more Christians on earth today who speak in tongues than there have been at any other time in history! Although they have always been around in varying degrees throughout church history, there has
been a strong revival of tongues in this century.
It is true that the Bible refers to a time when tongues
shall cease (1 Corinthians 13:

(1).However, this same passage(chpt 13) also tells us when this will happen: When perfection comes, we see face to face, and we know, even as we are known (verses 10-12.) Have these other verses been fulfilled yet? Obviously not,since true perfection will not happen until after Jesus returns (1 John 3:2-3; Ephesians 5:27.) We are still very much "seeing through a glass darkly," as Paul put it in verse 12 .Until the veil of our mortality is removed, and we see Him face to face, our communication with God will always be filtered through our finite, human limitations.
We don't always know how to pray properly. This is why God has made available to us this Heavenly prayer language, that takes us beyond our infirmities
(Greek:inability to get results) and help us pray with the Spirit making intercession with us through groanings which cannot be uttered (Romans 8:26.) According to respected Greek scholar P.C. Nelson, the literal Greek translation of this implies "groanings which cannot be uttered in articulate speech." We need the Holy Spirit to help us this way just as much, if not more,than the first century church did.
In 1 Corinthians 1:7, Paul expresses his desire that we
come behind in no spiritual gift, as we wait for the
coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. In other words, until
Jesus does return, the charismatic gifts of the Spirit,
including tongues,will be in full operation, and we should not be lacking, or come behind, in having these gifts in our own lives.


III.HOW DOES SPEAKING IN TONGUES OPERATE?
In order to answer this question properly, we must look at the fact that the Bible describes three different manifestations of speaking in tongues:

1-Evidential tongues-The initial evidence when someone
is baptized in the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1- 4;10:44-46;19:2-7.)

2-Intercessory tongues-the ability to pray in other
tongues, or "In the Spirit" (1 Corinthians 14:14- 16;
Ephesians 6:18;Jude 20) in order to pray beyond our
limited human understanding , speak mysteries to God
( 1 Corinthians 14:2) and edify (build up) ourselves (1
Corinthians 14:4.)

3-The ministry gift of tongues, described in 1
Corinthians chapters 12 and 14, involves giving a message in tongues in a public worship service, which is to be interpreted (12:10).This is a powerful sign to
unbelievers ( 14:22).This gift is only given in certain
situations, as the Spirit wills. Therefore, not all
Christians are used in this gift (12:30.)


IV. WEREN'T TONGUES GIVEN SO THAT THE EARLY CHURCH COULD PREACH THE GOSPEL IN FOREIGN NATIONS WHERE THEY DIDN'T KNOW THE LANGUAGES?

I once read an article by a certain denominational
minister in which he tried to explain tongues by saying
that, when Jesus commissioned His disciples to go into
all the world, He didn't want them to spend all of their
time taking language classes, so He gave them tongues
to preach in foreign nations. While I don't question that this brother meant well, this theory is simply not Biblical.
It is true that on the Day of Pentecost, the people all
heard the works of God proclaimed in their own
language (Acts 2:11). However, this was not preaching.
When it came time to preach, notice that Peter
preached in a language understood by the entire crowd. Nowhere in the Bible do we ever see an example of a person preaching in tongues.

V.ARE TONGUES HUMAN LANGUAGES

-They can be, but are not necessarily. They can also be
Heavenly languages-tongues of angels (1 Corinthians
13:1.)


VI.WHY DIDN'T JESUS SPEAK IN TONGUES?

Actually, I'm not totally sure that He didn't. Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit (Luke 10:21,) and groaned in the Spirit (John11:33.) This terminology is very similar to the term "Praying in the Spirit," which Paul uses to describe praying in tongues (1 Corinthians 14: 14-16.) However, even if Jesus did not speak in tongues, there are several possible explanations:

1.Since He was God, there were no languages He didn't
know.

2.Since He was sinless, He had perfect communication
with the Father, and therefore, He did not need
tongues.

3.He was the last person to function as a prophet under the Old Covenant.

Tongues are a New Testament phenomenon. Even if Jesus didn't personally speak in tongues, He Himself stated that tongues would be a normative sign to follow believers (Mark 16:17). The entire New
Testament was written by people who spoke in tongues.

VII. ARE TONGUES THE LEAST OF THE GIFTS? ARE THEY REALLY THAT IMPORTANT?

In 1 Corinthians 12, the Apostle Paul gives us a basic
primer on the nine Gifts of the Holy Spirit: Wisdom,
knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discernment, tongues and interpretation of tongues.
Since tongues and interpretation are the last Gift Paul
mentions, some have taken this to mean that tongues are the least important of the Gifts, and that we shouldn't really be concerned with them. However, I would respectfully reply that this argument is based on a very presumptuous and inconsistent approach to Biblical interpretation.
Chronological order of how something is listed is not
necessarily an indication of importance. For example, in 1 Corinthians 13:13 , Paul tells us that faith, hope, and love remain, yet the greatest of these is love, in spite of the fact that it is listed last. Likewise, in a list of sinful activities recorded in Galatians 5:19-21 , murder is named near the end of the list. Does that mean that
murder is a less serious sin than the others? Of course
not. Paul definitely did not view tongues as being unimportant. In fact, he devotes an entire chapter in the Bible to teaching on the subject (1 Corinthians 14). In this chapter, he tells the Corinthian believers that he desires that they all speak in tongues (verse 5), and
thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than all of
them! (verse 18) Three times in Scripture we are
exhorted to covet (Pursue with passion) the Gifts of the Holy Spirit-including tongues (1 Corinthians 12:31; 14:1, 39, the same Greek word is used in all of these
Scriptures.) Note that this is worded as a commandment, not an option. To downplay or dishonor any of God's gifts is to dishonor God Himself. May we never, ever fall into this trap.


VIII.ARE TONGUES SOMETHING TO BE FEARED?

Not at all. Tongues are a wonderful tool God has given
His people to enjoy His presence more fully and
intimately, and to make us more effective in our service for Him.
Being a supernatural phenomenon, speaking in tongues is approached somewhat hesitantly by many Christians.
However, this is nothing new. In the Bible, when God's
presence showed up in a tangible manner, it was not
unusual for onlookers to respond with fear. We see this in events like the angelic vision the shepherds had when Jesus was born (Luke 2:8-12,) when the disciples saw Jesus walk on water (Mark 6:45-50,) and when John had his vision of the risen Jesus (Revelation 1:4-17.) Notice that each time,the first reaction of the people who witnessed these supernatural occurrences was to be afraid. However, in each of these cases, these people were assured to "Fear not," or "Be not afraid." In Luke 11:9-13, Jesus makes the solemn promise that if you ask God for bread, He isn't going to give you a stone. According to verse 13,the context of this verse is asking the Father for the gift of the Holy Spirit. The work of the Holy Spirit in a Christian's life is something to be cherished, not feared. It is the purpose of this writ to share with you one of the important ways that the Spirit does work in people's lives to draw us closer to Him, and to the ultimate goal: Christlikeness. As one of my favorite Scriptures, 2 Corinthians 3:18, puts it so beautifully: But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.


In conclusion, speaking in tongues is not necessary for all Christian, if you don't speak in tongues, and lived righteously, you will surely make heaven. You can have the holyspirit in you, and still don't speak in tongues, because it's a gift you have to ask of the father, and he and only he can give you utterance. But the thing is without speaking in tongues you will NOT live in full potential of the Holyspirit in you. You won't be able to pray as you ought to, you can't cast out devils, you can't do/live in the miraculous, you will be so limited in almost all sphere, because speaking in tongues builds you up like an edifice, gives you insight into deep secrets and mysteries, and so so so much more.

Lastly, I usually answer folks who asked me, "must I speak in tongues? Eh??"

I answer with a smile "is it a must to live supernaturally?" Or "is it a must to be a Christian"?

The answers to the above both is NO!

God bless.
*forgive my typos and the long essay

Answered

Cheers mate

Bidam: Even after i told these guys that i had this experience they would Not believe.Jesus told the pharisees that if you do not believe my words that i came from the father at least believe the miracles na! May God deliver folks from every satanic blindfoldness in the Body of Christ.

Yeah, a woman once testified that she was on her way to a native doctor's awz for divination, but as she was passing by a church and the speakers were blaring with tongues by the pastor, she said she heard the pastor in her own language saying "do not go where you intend going to".

This was similar to what happnd on penticost day, they heard in their own language...it can only be by the holyspirit. He interpreted tongues to a whole lot folks bck in the day, and he's still doing it today.

Kenny4lyfe: Go on kabashing bro! I received a lot during my conversation with the Lord via kabash this morning ! It's so exciting bro!
God bless you!

His presence always amazes me...only if folks know the inner peace of God (which the world cannot give) kbashing brings us

Its just too exciting

Bidam: Bro..thanks,Trust me there will come a time when i will shake the dust off my feet from these folks.
But i believe there are some who are genuine seekers of the truth,with such i have to persevere.You are a source of encouragement really.

[size=32pt] God bless the works of thy hand, flesh and blood has not made you persist and persevere [/size]

Kenny, let me go and Kabash....I need fellowship with the Father, not Just relationship-Pastor Anita, ROR 3rd Sept 2013

#Glory

Gombs: Hello kenny!

@All
I've read through the whole thread and deceided to comment on a whole lot of issues you folks brought up in defence that speaking in tongues is this or that. I'm afraid Bidam did much of his best to explain the importance of speaking in tongues, and half of the time, he sounded aggressive and impulsive, though some questions and posts were too outrageous to act otherwise. But let me point out and answer (not attempt to answer) the lingering questions in hope to put rest to this issue. If anyone still wanna be contentious, may God help him/her in search for the truth.


I.WHAT IS SPEAKING IN TONGUES?

First,let's look at a few things that speaking in tongues
is NOT:

1.Tongues are NOT a status symbol, indicating that one
Christian is more spiritual than another. The Corinthian
church was a hotbed of tongues speaking, yet the
Apostle Paul still chastised them for being carnal (1
Corinthians 3:3.)

2.Tongues are not a shortcut to instant spiritual
maturity.

3.Tongues are not a hypnotic, zombie like state in which the person has no control of his faculties.
Speaking in tongues is, to put it simply, Holy Spirit
inspired speech in a language unknown to the speaker.

As we will examine, it can be spoken in a Christian's private prayer life, or in a public worship service with
interpretation. People have a natural hunger for the supernatural. Unfortunately, many turn to the false, satanic supernatural found in psychics, the New Age,and other cultic activity rather than seeking the true supernatural power of God. This is tragic. God is a supernatural God!
He can fulfill the deepest longings of our hearts with
His love and power. Tongues are one of the avenues that He works through in order to do this.


II. ARE TONGUES STILL IN OPERATION TODAY?

Yes, there are more Christians on earth today who speak in tongues than there have been at any other time in history! Although they have always been around in varying degrees throughout church history, there has
been a strong revival of tongues in this century.
It is true that the Bible refers to a time when tongues
shall cease (1 Corinthians 13:

(1).However, this same passage(chpt 13) also tells us when this will happen: When perfection comes, we see face to face, and we know, even as we are known (verses 10-12.) Have these other verses been fulfilled yet? Obviously not,since true perfection will not happen until after Jesus returns (1 John 3:2-3; Ephesians 5:27.) We are still very much "seeing through a glass darkly," as Paul put it in verse 12 .Until the veil of our mortality is removed, and we see Him face to face, our communication with God will always be filtered through our finite, human limitations.
We don't always know how to pray properly. This is why God has made available to us this Heavenly prayer language, that takes us beyond our infirmities
(Greek:inability to get results) and help us pray with the Spirit making intercession with us through groanings which cannot be uttered (Romans 8:26.) According to respected Greek scholar P.C. Nelson, the literal Greek translation of this implies "groanings which cannot be uttered in articulate speech." We need the Holy Spirit to help us this way just as much, if not more,than the first century church did.
In 1 Corinthians 1:7, Paul expresses his desire that we
come behind in no spiritual gift, as we wait for the
coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. In other words, until
Jesus does return, the charismatic gifts of the Spirit,
including tongues,will be in full operation, and we should not be lacking, or come behind, in having these gifts in our own lives.


III.HOW DOES SPEAKING IN TONGUES OPERATE?
In order to answer this question properly, we must look at the fact that the Bible describes three different manifestations of speaking in tongues:

1-Evidential tongues-The initial evidence when someone
is baptized in the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1- 4;10:44-46;19:2-7.)

2-Intercessory tongues-the ability to pray in other
tongues, or "In the Spirit" (1 Corinthians 14:14- 16;
Ephesians 6:18;Jude 20) in order to pray beyond our
limited human understanding , speak mysteries to God
( 1 Corinthians 14:2) and edify (build up) ourselves (1
Corinthians 14:4.)

3-The ministry gift of tongues, described in 1
Corinthians chapters 12 and 14, involves giving a message in tongues in a public worship service, which is to be interpreted (12:10).This is a powerful sign to
unbelievers ( 14:22).This gift is only given in certain
situations, as the Spirit wills. Therefore, not all
Christians are used in this gift (12:30.)


IV. WEREN'T TONGUES GIVEN SO THAT THE EARLY CHURCH COULD PREACH THE GOSPEL IN FOREIGN NATIONS WHERE THEY DIDN'T KNOW THE LANGUAGES?

I once read an article by a certain denominational
minister in which he tried to explain tongues by saying
that, when Jesus commissioned His disciples to go into
all the world, He didn't want them to spend all of their
time taking language classes, so He gave them tongues
to preach in foreign nations. While I don't question that this brother meant well, this theory is simply not Biblical.
It is true that on the Day of Pentecost, the people all
heard the works of God proclaimed in their own
language (Acts 2:11). However, this was not preaching.
When it came time to preach, notice that Peter
preached in a language understood by the entire crowd. Nowhere in the Bible do we ever see an example of a person preaching in tongues.

V.ARE TONGUES HUMAN LANGUAGES

-They can be, but are not necessarily. They can also be
Heavenly languages-tongues of angels (1 Corinthians
13:1.)


VI.WHY DIDN'T JESUS SPEAK IN TONGUES?

Actually, I'm not totally sure that He didn't. Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit (Luke 10:21,) and groaned in the Spirit (John11:33.) This terminology is very similar to the term "Praying in the Spirit," which Paul uses to describe praying in tongues (1 Corinthians 14: 14-16.) However, even if Jesus did not speak in tongues, there are several possible explanations:

1.Since He was God, there were no languages He didn't
know.

2.Since He was sinless, He had perfect communication
with the Father, and therefore, He did not need
tongues.

3.He was the last person to function as a prophet under the Old Covenant.

Tongues are a New Testament phenomenon. Even if Jesus didn't personally speak in tongues, He Himself stated that tongues would be a normative sign to follow believers (Mark 16:17). The entire New
Testament was written by people who spoke in tongues.

VII. ARE TONGUES THE LEAST OF THE GIFTS? ARE THEY REALLY THAT IMPORTANT?

In 1 Corinthians 12, the Apostle Paul gives us a basic
primer on the nine Gifts of the Holy Spirit: Wisdom,
knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discernment, tongues and interpretation of tongues.
Since tongues and interpretation are the last Gift Paul
mentions, some have taken this to mean that tongues are the least important of the Gifts, and that we shouldn't really be concerned with them. However, I would respectfully reply that this argument is based on a very presumptuous and inconsistent approach to Biblical interpretation.
Chronological order of how something is listed is not
necessarily an indication of importance. For example, in 1 Corinthians 13:13 , Paul tells us that faith, hope, and love remain, yet the greatest of these is love, in spite of the fact that it is listed last. Likewise, in a list of sinful activities recorded in Galatians 5:19-21 , murder is named near the end of the list. Does that mean that
murder is a less serious sin than the others? Of course
not. Paul definitely did not view tongues as being unimportant. In fact, he devotes an entire chapter in the Bible to teaching on the subject (1 Corinthians 14). In this chapter, he tells the Corinthian believers that he desires that they all speak in tongues (verse 5), and
thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than all of
them! (verse 18) Three times in Scripture we are
exhorted to covet (Pursue with passion) the Gifts of the Holy Spirit-including tongues (1 Corinthians 12:31; 14:1, 39, the same Greek word is used in all of these
Scriptures.) Note that this is worded as a commandment, not an option. To downplay or dishonor any of God's gifts is to dishonor God Himself. May we never, ever fall into this trap.


VIII.ARE TONGUES SOMETHING TO BE FEARED?

Not at all. Tongues are a wonderful tool God has given
His people to enjoy His presence more fully and
intimately, and to make us more effective in our service for Him.
Being a supernatural phenomenon, speaking in tongues is approached somewhat hesitantly by many Christians.
However, this is nothing new. In the Bible, when God's
presence showed up in a tangible manner, it was not
unusual for onlookers to respond with fear. We see this in events like the angelic vision the shepherds had when Jesus was born (Luke 2:8-12,) when the disciples saw Jesus walk on water (Mark 6:45-50,) and when John had his vision of the risen Jesus (Revelation 1:4-17.) Notice that each time,the first reaction of the people who witnessed these supernatural occurrences was to be afraid. However, in each of these cases, these people were assured to "Fear not," or "Be not afraid." In Luke 11:9-13, Jesus makes the solemn promise that if you ask God for bread, He isn't going to give you a stone. According to verse 13,the context of this verse is asking the Father for the gift of the Holy Spirit. The work of the Holy Spirit in a Christian's life is something to be cherished, not feared. It is the purpose of this writ to share with you one of the important ways that the Spirit does work in people's lives to draw us closer to Him, and to the ultimate goal: Christlikeness. As one of my favorite Scriptures, 2 Corinthians 3:18, puts it so beautifully: But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.


In conclusion, speaking in tongues is not necessary for all Christian, if you don't speak in tongues, and lived righteously, you will surely make heaven. You can have the holyspirit in you, and still don't speak in tongues, because it's a gift you have to ask of the father, and he and only he can give you utterance. But the thing is without speaking in tongues you will NOT live in full potential of the Holyspirit in you. You won't be able to pray as you ought to, you can't cast out devils, you can't do/live in the miraculous, you will be so limited in almost all sphere, because speaking in tongues builds you up like an edifice, gives you insight into deep secrets and mysteries, and so so so much more.

Lastly, I usually answer folks who asked me, "must I speak in tongues? Eh??"

I answer with a smile "is it a must to live supernaturally?" Or "is it a must to be a Christian"?

The answers to the above both is NO!

God bless.

This answers your below question...twas answered 4 pages back

benalvino: If the speaking in tongues is not other peoples language but Gibs... forget it! it is fake.

*forgive my typos and the long essay[/quote]

benalvino: Yeah claps for y'all... I saw the first bible verse from the original post and i know Bidam as taken the whole passage out of Context and never bothered to read through...

Tell me the truth, Have you ever head someone in your church interpreting the socalled tongue that you preach? Because if you put the verse in context that the OP took apart you will realize the command and the motive...

Yes, Pastor Chris Oyakhilome interpretes tongues. You dont have to believe me, but that doesnt mean it aint for real. Oyedepo too, even some decons in my church do...normal brethrens do sef ; D

I dont inteprete tongues, I dont have the gift that as 1corinth 12 says. But I could desire it and ask. U should too

Kenny4lyfe: You know, @ bro. Gombs and bro. Bidam - It wasn't a joke when I choose to ignore THESE GUYS not because I don't have the potential to argue with them like you guys but because it's one of the rare character of our Lord Jesus Christ!

Whenever Jesus is entangled in a question and answer spree with this kinda guys;
1. He {Jesus} made his point ONCE and he doesn't repeat himself!
2. He knows when to stay, run, he even knows when to hide! {Now don't ask me to quote scriptures to support the points made above 'cus you're supposed to know these things; they're there in the gospel!}

{@ Bro. Gombs and @Bro. Bidam knows what I'm talking about here!}

These are the rare vitues of our Lord Jesus Christ: He'll made his point Once and walk away!

The Lord wasn't joking when He said, "They {These guys} know not, neither will they understand" {Go and read your Bible} !

Give them all the scriptures in the world concerning the topic in question and they'll keep asking the same questions over and over again! That's how their minds were programmed!

@ Bro. Gombs and Bro. Bidam I'm sure you get my point?
Ok!
God bless you!

Disclaimer: If you so choose to quote me in arguement, I've got 5 words for you- I WILL NOT REPLY YOU! Peace!

I know, thats y I hardly post a reply repeating what av already said. Most folks here are ever learning but never coming to the knowlege of the truth (2Tim 3v7). I must commend Bidam for his continous response to redundant questions, because it's a gift/ministry on him.

1corithians 12: 7-11

7 The Holy Spirit is given to each of us in a special way. That is for the good of all. [b] 8 To some people the Spirit gives the message of wisdom. To others the same Spirit gives the message of knowledge. [/b ]  9 To others the same Spirit gives faith. To others that one Spirit gives gifts of healing. 10 To others he gives the power to do miracles. To others he gives the ability to prophesy. To others he gives the ability to tell the spirits apart. To others he gives the ability to speak in different kinds of languages they had not known before. And to still others he gives the ability to explain what was said in those languages.11 All of the gifts are produced by one and the same Spirit. He gives them to each person, just as he decides.

If he can keep saying same thing over again, it is his grace working, I cant keep doing that dont mean am weary. Jesus' case was different because the Bible said they asked to test him and not to learn, and of course it wasnt believers in his gospel that asked such. With Bidam, he is asked by fellow christians who wanna of course know y he has those views, not to test him (They tested Jesus to see whether they could accuse him.)

I admire his persistence for the gospel of Christ, he cant force it on them, but then the Holyspirit is there to help those who truly wanna learn, and convicts those who dont want to, either way, it's a plus to him.

Cheers

Relationship And Fellowship · Tuesday, September 3rd
·
Pastor Anita

That which we have seen and heard declare we unto
you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and
truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his
Son Jesus Christ (1 John 1:3).

The story Jesus told in Luke 15:11-27 about the man who had two sons, gives us a better understanding of the difference between relationship and fellowship. Even though the young lad left home, and ended up in abject penury, he was still his father’s son! The father-and-son
relationship wasn’t destroyed; however, there was no fellowship. When he finally came to himself, and decided to return home, his father welcomed him back gladly (read Luke 15:11-27).

That’s just the way of some Christians: they have a relationship with God because they came to the Father
in the Name of the Lord Jesus, received salvation, and
became God’s children. However, they’re not in fellowship with Him. They have no time to pray, study, and meditate on the Word; they’re not "walking with God." It’s like having a child: you give birth to the child once, and that child becomes your son or daughter; that relationship is established once; but fellowship is built overtime.

There’re blessings that are based on a relationship, and there’re blessings that are based on fellowship. For example, Romans 12:3 tells us that God has given to every man the measure of faith. Each one of us was blessed with the required seed of faith when we received salvation. Nevertheless, for that faith to grow; for you to function in the greater levels of faith, there’s got to be fellowship. The more you fellowship with the Word and the Holy Spirit, and put your faith to work, the greater your faith grows, and the more experience you’d have in the things of God.

Prayer
Dear Father, I thank you for bringing me into oneness with you. I’m glad that not only am I in relationship with you, being born of you, I’m also in a blessed fellowship with you, and my faith is growing from strength to strength in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

f u r t h e r s t u d y: 1 John 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:9

Daily Scripture Reading
1 Year Reading Plan : 2 Corinthians 1-2:1-4, Proverbs 12-13
2 Year Reading Plan : Luke 20:27-38 1 Samuel 22

JMAN05: When you are ready to prove ur point on NWT you form a thread on it. if you refuse to do so, then you are living in ignorance or afraid to be proven wrong.

as for my comments you never attended to. I wish to put it to you that you have wholeheartedly accepted all of them as true.

look at the opening statement of this thread which i clearly stated that if you refuse to reply to any comment as they flow one by one, i will conclude that you ve accepted them.

on the NWT if you also refuse to form a thread for it, then you are unsure of ur position or you are afraid to be proven wrong with ur kjv.

note that you were the one that told me to form this thread even when i suggested that we continue in the other thread. to show my seriousness, i formed this thread. now ur turn.

Can we all just leave tithing matter alone? Going over same circle every year is not wisdom.
Let everyone work by his conviction and persuasion .Romans 14:5.... Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Pastor Kun: If you want to learn, go and read my presentation on the grace convention thread. I am sure you would learn a lot and probably get liberated from the tithe yoke by the time you are through with the thread.

Pastor Kunle...you shd consider comedy as an occupation

Sirniyeh: how many of your pastors go to salon to barb their hairs or shave their beard and mouthstach? Are barbers not the ones coming to them? Schioh

You can lie o!

Leave Pastors alone na!

Kenny4lyfe: Don't get me wrong bro. Gombs, by "that guy" I meant "the Op" !

I know na. Dats why I asked him what you asked him., whether he really was frustrated, cos he sounds so

Kenny4lyfe: Or better still 1 question for the Atheist: If God doesn't exist, what's your purpose on earth; why are you here?

Yeah!...I yam waiting for an answer to this..or atheist think they existed by chance? Even tho we know no two beings ever exist ie there's only one me, none existed before and none will exist after me. Why is dat so? If we aint here for a purpose, then why exist? A goat exist because its purpose acoording to God ws to provide meat/food for man. And so on