₦airaland Forum

Ihedinobi: Lol. I did right after that post, bro. I'll expect you later

Okay, How was your night? Sure it was good. Anyway, I do had a good sleep also but not more than four hours and plus I had to wake up earlier to keep my words, otherwise, na another day you go see me.

Back to the point, I'm just gonna cut long typing short. I believe the marriage going on in John 2 is nothing but a ceremony or what you call the celebration or feasting. The joining together had already taken place which the bible didn't mention how the joining together took place. What was going on in John 2 is just an outward of the "heart of marriage" because from the heart "all issues of life" spring up and here are my reasons:

1. The KJV uses same word "marriage" in TWO ways - as a wedding or marriage festival, a wedding banquet, a wedding feast AND as a matrimony. It is the context that tells which one applies.

2. The KJV uses the word marriage in verses 1 & 2 while some translations use wedding but the Greek word under KJV proves it was ceremony\celebration\feast proving it was a banquet\festival\feast\celebration which all amount to ceremony that was going on there in Cana, the heart of the marriage, which is the matrimony already took place.

3. Verse 8 & 9 gives the explanation to the "marriage" being talked about in verses 1 & 2 by making us to understand it was a feast, hence, the master of "ceremony or feast".

4. The context of John 2:1-10 will not make sense to me when or if I\we try to apply the same to Hebrews 13:4. That is, is will not make sense contexually when we say "marriage" in Hebrews 13:4 means the "wedding or marriage festival, a wedding banquet, a wedding feast" aspect of the word meanings but it will make perfect sense in its own context of "matrimony".

So we cannot say,

Marriage "wedding or marriage festival, a wedding banquet, a wedding feast" should be honored by all, and the marriage "wedding or marriage festival, a wedding banquet, a wedding feast" bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

BUT, it will only make sense to me, if we say,

Marriage "matrimony" should be honored by all, and the marriage "matrimony or "matrimonial" bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

That's my submission.

^ Okay. I will bring it on when I wake up in the morning. Plus, I m doing the comments from phone and can't do much. I will take the pain to get up earlier and pull up some explanations. You sef, go and sleep.

Ihedinobi: I don't see anything that needs further explaining in verse 9. Perhaps you should be more specific: why does verse 9 need any more explaining?

Okay, it's because I'm going somewhere, which I will further explain. I believe verse 9 is what tells us the contextual meaning to the "marriage" as used in verses 1 and 2. In my question on verse 9, I am specifically referring to the phrase, "master of ceremony", "master of the feast" etc depending on translations.

Try answer the question again, if not, I will just proceed to tell you why verse 9 explains the marriage as used in verses 1 & 2.

Ihedinobi: Both a marriage ceremony and a marriage feast or celebration.


In verse 1 KJV, "there was a marriage"; in verse 2 same KJV, "both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage". And in verse 8, there was a "governor of the feast".

Why do I consider 'a marriage' to be more than just 'the feast'? Because all through the Bible, there was this thread running through: someone would offer a woman to a man and if he accepted her, she became his wife. A ceremony is defined by Google as "the ritual observances and procedures required or performed at grand and formal occasions". That's the meaning in this case, the acts performed to fulfil the requirements necessary to acquire a new status or enter some new phase of existence or achievement.

Upon performance of these ritual observances and procedures, a feast may be enacted to celebrate the new achievement or status. The feast is not needed to ratify the new achievement, it need not be called. When it is called, it is to express the new achiever's joy in his achievement.

That is why I say that it was both the marriage ceremony and the marriage feast that Jesus and His disciples went to.

I purposely gave the whole context so we can reason together. I'm not trying to win argument or read into scriptural context. That's why I started out as question and asked your thought or understanding on it.

If the above is your answer, how do you then explain verse 9 of the scripture. You can read in as many as possible translation to understand what verse 9 says. How do you explain verse 9?.

After this verse 9 question, I won't bother you with further questions, I will just go ahead to explain why I think otherwise to your answers above, explaining the context of John 2:1-10.

@ Ihedinobi & Others who insist on "ceremonial" act before being considered that marriage is effective.

Let's start to look at this scriptures together. We start it out as questions - John 2:1-10

1. What is it that is going on in this verse?

a. A marriage - as in joining a man and woman together?
b. A marriage FEAST or CEREMONY - as in marriage already happened and ceremony being celebrated?
c. BOTH (a) & (b) ^ above?

2. How did you come to the conclusion on your choice of answers to the above questions of the bible reference?

Bidam: this is a lie and you know it..Everyone including the levites were not exempted from the tithe, at least you saw the widow i quoted in luke giving her ALL to the temple treasury.If a widow( a beneficiary of the tithes) could do that, how much more others.

I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income.’

Honor God with everything you own;give him the first and the best. prov 3:9

NUMBERS 18:25-26
25 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
26 Thus speak to the Levites, and say to them, When you take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then you shall offer up a heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

God spoke to Moses: “Speak to the Levites. Tell them, When you get the tithe from the People of Israel, the inheritance that I have assigned to you, you must tithe that tithe and present it as an offering to God

And yet, you read\study your scriptures in CONTEXT o

^ That one na algebra and calculus them dey take work their own percentage

Bidam: Lol..can you listen to yoursef? Is there any word like pre marriage sex in the bible? Marriage is honourable when the bed is undefiled and not before..Olodo.

Isn't it what you just said? It is MARRIAGE (Already joinED together as husband and wife) that is honourable and. that is what Christ established, not YOU Bidam. Anyone who is in an ALREADY EXISTING MARRIAGE and goes outside of that marriage is one aspect of meaning of fornication, not your religious meaning.

Bidam: smh! Same old tricks of d devil he used to beguile eve...i am scripturaly sound and grounded even if i don't quote scripture.BTW where you not the one saying pre marital sex is not a sin since the bible did not define it as such but fornication? false teacher.

At least, you sef don start dey go concordance naw, prove all things as understood by those who first heard it. . Since you KNOW THE BIBLE DIDN'T DEFINE FORNICATION AS SUCH, WHY ARE YOU AND YOUR RELIGIOUS FOLKS DEFINING IT AS SUCH?

Technical and biblical KNOCKOUTS....

Yooguyz: Brother Goshen were have you been? Welcome back!
You know we are learning everyday.... No one person have attained have attained perfect knowledge.

I actually haven't been anywhere, just I post less cos of tight schedule this season. Okay, I heard what you said so let us walk through it together. I can as well just tell you the answer but I think walking through it together will help you greatly.

First, remove the word "second" because that scripture didn't mention "second" coming, you are the one that "understood" as "second" and that's what brought about as if it looks like Christ was lying in that verse.

Can you figure out something on that verse with the above info now?

Ihedinobi: When two people have decided that they will spend the rest of their lives together, they aren't automatically married. They will be married after they have fulfilled what traditions are necessary to pronounce them married. This is not to say that traditions are God, but to say that God is no author of confusion. If people can pronounce themselves married merely because they have decided that they want to spend the rest of their lives with each other - mere intention - what is the point of marriage ceremony, documents signing, token-sharing, vows and whatnot? Anyone may simply pick up a member of the opposite sex whenever they please and start having sexx with them. And why should they be expected to stick with the union when things get tough if there is no binding covenant or contract and there are no witnesses to hold them to their commitments?

Even the first couple were married before they started having sexx. The "father" of the woman brought her to the man and the man accepted and claimed her for himself and made her the center of his life. That was the precedent that God set. If we have decided to make that simple ceremony elaborate, that is our own problem, but we cannot scrap the entire thing just to suit our hormones. There must be an exchange and a commitment to the woman's welfare before a marriage can said to have been finalized.

Only under special circumstances can a given couple be excused.

Please see the following thread for another treatment of this matter: https://www.nairaland.com/1244999/brother-goshen-please-explain-stand

My brother, I'm so sorry to say, what you said is good but not scriptural as good as you said it. Official marriage is nothing but ceremonial. I will show you many scriptures when I have time, to the point that God's marriage doesn't necessarily have to be ceremonial

I actually thought you know more than that in the above.

Quatermaine: make fun of it bro! Go ahead.

Notice the 'in some ways'. In that text wife could mean God as well as wife itself!.

The only way God called Israel wife was because THE LAW OR THE MOSAIC COVENANT OF THE LAW was what was used to JOIN OR BIND GOD AND ISRAEL in marriage and so, Israel was God's WIFE according TO THE LAW. There wasn't any marriage ceremony or physical marriage between God and Israel.

BUT when a husband dies, the law binding the woman is terminated. So, the only way God could terminate marriage and the law covenants is THROUGH AND BY DEATH, in the person of Christ so God through Christ is NOW married to the Church.

Romans 7:1-10

Quatermaine: gbam!.
pre-marital sex is a sin.

Marriage is not on the basis of sex!

Olooooodo rapata, oju eja lo m'oje....

King James Bible
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Matthew 19:9

How can a WIFE commit fornication if fornication means pre-marital se.x between two people who wants to marry themselves? The ^ above verse from the Lord says, a MARRIED WOMAN (WIFE) can commit fornication, NOT ONLY AN UNMARRIED person. Fornication is like the word "virgin" in scripture that means more than one thing. A virgin also mean UNMARRIED woman\man, not only a woman who have not had se.x with a man.

King James Bible
There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman (VIRGIN) careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married (WIFE) careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
1 Corinthians 7:34

One of my favorite topics.

God is love and ever full of mercy. The wrath of God came BECAUSE Israel would not accept God gracious acts but sought their own righteousness, hence, the wrath of God was shown.

Even in God's wrath, mercy and love still prevailed.

A Church (The Called out) going to Church (The Called out)?

If tithe was originally commanded from money, while will God say convert it to money again? It simply means, it wasn't originally money in the content.

@ Pastor Olu T,

Fornication has a wide range of meanings but never does it mean pre-marital se.x; it is religion that taught such thing. You can always study to show yourself approved unto God, proof all things and hold unto that which is good, using bible concordance. Using a bible concordance for word meanings in context, you will come to a whole new meaning to the religious interpretations.

Godysien: WARNING ALERT!!! In the name above every other names (JESUS) be careful with this great man of God. God's word said" Honour thy father and mother (including Pst. Adeboye) that thy days may be long on earth. So come back to this thread and make your confessional statement for total forgiveness concerning what you said about Pst. Adeboye OR by the unction that functions in Pst. Adeboye's life as long as Jehovah God lives your days shall be cut short. Take it or leave it, Jesus is Lord!

I'm so sorry, with your comments above, you are not a true Christian yet if at all you're one. You're not better that a herbalist that curse people for what is considered as wrond-doings. What kind of Christian are you? Really!!! You said those words up there?

Weeping for this generation of Christians!!!

Btw, what if his\her life is not cut short and he\she doesn't make any confessional statement concerning what he\she said about Pst Adeboye?

OLAADEGBU: Is the "binding and loosing" of demons biblical?

One of the most common expressions in contemporary Christianity is "I bind you, Satan, in the name of Jesus." Biblically however, the phrase "binding and loosing" has nothing whatsoever to do with demons.

First, when Jesus told the disciples, "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" (Matthew 16:19), he was not talking about demons but discipline. In other words, in the context of church discipline, those who repent are to be "loosed" (i.e., restored to fellowship). Those who persist in sin are to be "bound" (i.e., removed from fellowship). Demons are totally foreign to the context.

Furthermore, humans are not authorized anywhere in Scripture to "bind or loose" Satan. Even the archangel Michael did not tackle Satan on his own. Despite his wisdom and power, he called on God to rebuke Satan. Christians should never suppose that they are smart enough to engage Satan on their own. Rather they, like Michael, should pray, "The Lord rebuke you" (Jude 9).

Finally, while it makes sense to ask the Lord to "bind" the power of demons in the sense of thwarting their plans to undo us, to "loose" Satan and his minions makes no sense at all. Thus, common sense alone should be enough to convince us that biblically "binding and loosing" has nothing whatsoever to do with demons. –Hank Hanegraaff | The Complete Bible Answer Book

For further study on biblical spiritual warfare, see Hank Hanegraaff, The Covering: God's Plan to Protect You from Evil (Nashville:W Publishing, 2002). http://www.equip.org/bookstore/the-covering-2/

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. “I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. “Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." -- Matthew 18:15–20

Ola, you posted this article. First, I want to ask, do YOU completely agree with everything in that article, line by line.

@ Bidam, you better go use your concordance before I enter Hebrew\Greek with you now.

Bidam: no twisting there. Cain also offered his own was it received? Maybe Cain had no faith it was God receiving just like some of you always thinking your offerings are to men not to God.



Ok i concede tithe wasn't mentioned. It was stated gifts which can be tithes,offerings,support,etc etc.. the point here is that PAUL STATED THESE GIVINGS WERE NOT TO him BUT TO God.

1. Bidam, sacrifices and offerings in scripture means different things. You should know that by now.

2. If tithe wasn't mentioned, why did you inferred what wasn't mentioned into scripture? I could also use that verse and say gift means collecting from armed robbers and shaddy business, it's all gift.

The point is, everywhere IN SCRIPTURE tithe is taught, it was mentioned. Do not read into scripture what it doesn't say. It's dangerous. Gift is gift sent to people in appreciation of the receiver, tithe is a commandment.

Bidam: You see how you dey shoot yoursef abi?

“While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18 AV).

If you give your offerings in church, are you giving it to an Eternal God or to men?

Hebrews 11:4 tells us, "By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain." If God could collect offerings of Abel by faith, how much more our tithes.

Philippians 4:18 (ESV)

18 I have received full payment, and more. I am well supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God.

If Paul could commend the tithes and offerings(gifts) he received from the Philippians and say it is a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God(he cannot see) by Faith. That means it is very much scriptural to tithe by Faith.

I can't just stop laughing at this your maneuvering. Abel, offered SACRIFICE...you said he God collected the OFFERING of Abel by FAITH.

2. Where did Paul collected TITHE AND OFFERING from Philippians and commended it?

In fact, Hebrews 11:1 agrees with 2 cor. 4:18....EVIDENCE...things NOT SEEN...ETERNAL. Stop panel-beating scriptures.

Bidam: ofcos, i saw it. Unlike you am no hypocrite.

The only part i don't agree with him was in saying the gentiles replaced Israel.Scripture never implied,inferred or remotely say what he insinuated.

We gentiles as Paul rightly said were grafted into the commonwealth of Israel since Christ has gone to the cross and tore the veil hence breaking the dividing wall between the Jews and gentiles. Hence there is neither jew nor gentile we are all one in Christ.Galatians 3:28

I will soon expose again, (like I did exposed the deception of Malachi devourer and storehouse) the deception of "tithing BY FAITH" which is the new modus operandi now for you tithe teachers.

What is Faith? Hebrews 11:1

So tithe teachers are now saying we tithe by FAITH assurance of things hoped for and evidence of things not seen

Bidam: The guy raised great points and you are talking gibberish... . Grow up pal.

Off course, you can't see the difference, you just reading.

Ishilove: You endorse ignorance?

Where is the ignorance? That a Christian with indwelling holy Spirit is possessed and needs deliverance?

[quote author=dumo.ala]Sir, God moved all the covenants and promises from the Jews to the Christian Church. The “new covenant” giving to Israel (Jer.31: 31-37) was therefore fulfilled by Christian Church. Please note that “not all descendant of Israel belong to Israel” (Rom. 9:6) because they rejected the “new covenant” of our Lord Jesus Christ. Israel refers to all those who obey the new covenant of our Lord Jesus Christ, who are thereby called the true children of Abraham (Gal. 6:29). Church is now “the Israel of God” (Gal. 6:16). Israel denotes only those who are Christians, and Christians are the inheritors of the covenants and blessings giving to Abraham and his descendants. So the church is Israel and Israel as you now know is the church.[/quote]Why are we talking Algebra and Calculus but you talking Hispanic? Why?

fredx4: It pains me when a lot of christians go about looking for deliverance from evil spirits, curses, poverty etc. Christians don't realize that Jesus Christ delivered them from all this things when he died on the cross. As a believer you have authority over the devil and his agents. If the devil trespasses all you have to do is rebuke him in the name of Jesus Christ and not to start running to a pastor for deliverance. What puts most christians in bondage is not knowing their authority in Christ Jesus. The devil has no right to intimidate or oppress any believer, he has already been defeated by Jesus Christ. The only ploy he uses is to deceive christians into thinking that he has authority over them, and he succeeds because a lot christians don't know their rights. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. God bless you all.

New Living Translation
Think of it this way. If a father dies and leaves an inheritance for his young children, those children are not much better off than slaves until they grow up, even though they actually own everything their father had.
Galatians 4:1

I'm Goshen360 and I endorse your message of the Cross.

rudedough: I just wish say Christians dey read this page and them dey see the truth with their eye. Pastor Dumo don abscond.

When I small, my best friend Kasarachi get ulcer, him be student oo. One day, we dey hungry badly, Kasara hold N100, Kasara bring money make we eat, Kasara no gree bring him money out, even when d Ulcer hook am him still no gree bring that money out.

The next morning him go pay the money as tithe for Church. When I ask am, him say Devil dey tempt am make him chop God money so that God go curse him generation. Say anybody wey chop God tithe, God go curse him generation forever.

Now that experience teach me something. Tithers no really like to tithe but na that curse them dey fear, of which the curse no dey refer to them at all. But their Pastors just dey use that verse dey put fear for their body.

All these things dey make me wonder the height of this religious wickedness.

There's no fear in God's love. We need to teach these people God will never curse a Christian because God had already cursed Christ on the Cross. There're is no fear in God's love and God had not given us the spirit of fear. It is a tool the devil and false Pastors use to cajole their members, the chain is broken and we are setting the tithe captives free, in Jesus' precious name.

Bidam: As a testimony to them..referring to the unbelieving Jews who said he cast out devils by the prince of beelzebub, in other words they attributed the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil which is a blasphemy and an unpardonable sin. In this dispensation If God heals you. You give testimony in church in appreciation to what God has done. Infact you are to come thanking God abi no be so? As the lepers went all were cleansed ONLY ONE came to give thanks.

1. What is the "as a testimony to them..." in that context?...Just go to church and give testimony or "show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded"?

2. And please, what is the gift that Moses commanded that Christians are suppose to offer to priest?
3. Which priest?
4. Do you have priest in the five-fold ministry today when all Christians are priest unto God?
5. Which church was Jesus addressing when the NT Church actually began on Pentecost?