₦airaland Forum

frosbel: so with all the tithes you are paying , na bicycle you de ride

Come let me give you a lift in my limo !

https://media.tumblr.com/5a850c9c8ab49e9837649cf4ccacfa6b/tumblr_inline_momkj3Am0k1qz4rgp.gif

& . . . https://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif https://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif https://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif https://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif https://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif https://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif

Ol boy e, una don scatter ground for here o. Chei...when did all these happened?

Bidam: so gentiles can fornicate, lie,steal,covet,commit idolatary..etc.etc abi?

You still missing road bro. After being with me and doing your own study, you still missing road. Why?

1. Gentiles were never taught to do those things you listed but we found some Christians doing it in the Corinthian church. How was it handled?

2. You keep missing the road as long as you keep seeing "commandment" in the new with the eyes of the 10 commandment. It changed in the new, try use your Greek. I know say you don start Greek methodology like Goshen... , you will see commandment have changed and doesn't mean lay down rules etc.

anukulapo: @ Goshen
...But wait o,this law thing, which is it? The 10 commandments OR the other ones found in across the pages of leviticus, numbers, deuteronomy OR both of them combined?

It's ALL join together including the 10 commandments. Christians are not given the 10 commandments which many call moral law. In fact, you don't need the 10 commandments as a Christian if you walk in the Spirit. We are not guided or led by ten, but by the Spirit.

Bidam: Yeah..we know that gentile folks are lawless.They hate the Law.no b today na.

If I start dey put you for hot seat now, na sweat you go dey sweat for yansh... . More than one scriptures shows gentiles in Christ has no business with the law of Moses. We are governed by the law of the Spirit. You need more study on this stuff bro.

Okay brethren. I will start another thread inviting Gombs to tithe discussion between him and me, referencing\quoting what's being said and we both can continue.

He didn't tell them to cover their HAIR, it says cover their HEAD and went further to say, the HAIR is given as a cover for the HEAD, else she is same as shaven, like gorimapa.

@ Gombs,

Okay. We kick it off then!

I stand on the new testament teachings to the church and from that truth, tithe was never mentioned nor taught to the church. On the contrary, tithe was abolished in Hebrews 7. However, this discussion is gonna be lengthy, so we can look into all angles of tithe. I understand you people claim tithe was before the law but you still run to Malachi to curse me and other Christians if we don't tithe according to the law.

So, I take it that your claim that tithe was before the law is just deception if you will have to resort to tithe of the law to issue threat and curse. Why do you teach or think Christians should 'pay' or 'give' mandatory monetary 10% of their monthly or weekly income to religious organization today while the Apostles never taught it to the Church?

We are not done with this stomach inspired gospel, we will fight the good fight of faith to the end.

When Church people read: "I will build my Church...", they tend to be misguided that Christ was talking about physical structure because of the word, "build". In that context, build is the Greek word, oikodomeō and it means (metaphorically) to found, establish, to promote growth in Christian wisdom, affection, grace, virtue, holiness, blessedness, to grow in wisdom and piety.

The word Church is the Greek word, ekklēsia and it doesn't mean BUILDING but the called out. So we understand Christ wasn't talking about building physical structure but building the people he had called out. When preachers misguide people, collecting tithes to build structure and calling that structure "church", it sound good but it is error because tithe was never collected to build any tabernacle or building from scriptures, it was meant to take care of people.

Besides, I will build my church doesn't apply to collecting tithe and to build structures, it means and Christ means, the ministry gifts he gave to the church to build the church up to maturity and growth.

New Living Translation
Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. Their responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ. Ephesians 4:11-12

Therefore, from Ephesians 4, above, we understand what Christ was saying - to BUILD, to equip God's PEOPLE...not building and TO BUILD the Church, THE BODY OF CHRIST, the called out, the ekklēsia.

chicalle: Pls i want 2 ask:sme preacherz said d gift of God iz witout repentance,so 4 me i dn't actualy undastand it,can an unbeliever prophecy,speak in tongues,heal,interpret tongues.pls help me out o

You have to first understand who gives what gift in the Godhead. The Spirit give gifts, the Son give gifts and the Father give gifts. So and therefore, when it says, the gift and calling of God are without repentance, don't be looking at the gift of the Spirit as the gift of the Father or as the gift of the Son. So, you have to use the word to interpret the word, asking questions from a verse and seeking answers through the Spirit.

The gift of the God (The Father), is righteousness and justification by faith in the finished works of His Son through the operation of the Spirit. Romans 5v15-17

The gift of the Father is also, Grace (through or by) Faith. Ephesians 2v8.

The gift of God is also, eternal life (through and in) Christ. Romans 6v23

Image123: All the links are not wiki na. Some are Candour and VickyO. i gave him wiki because they earlier thought i was making up the definitions. i also gave Microsoft Encarta at some point. It's dangerous to have an opinion and just looking for bible verse to support it. Try to rightly divide the word of truth! Listen and meditate deeply on that Gosh.

You're always shifting post ever since I truly came to know you. You cherry pick the law where suitable to justify your opinion. I'm divorced to the Mosaic through Christ and never have any intercourse with it and you know it. I can't pick something in the law and say it applies but when it comes to other hard ones, I hide under it is being sacrificial or ceremonial or whatever you choose to call it.

Deuteronomy wasn't written to Christians and should not apply to Christians.

anukulapo: You answered the question in your post already. Under the law,it was DEMANDED but Abraham "gave" without being asked to.
Like saying it was recorded that Jesus administered passover meal with his disciples only once so what do we eat it often (yea,I know Luke recorded that he asked his disciples to do it in remembrance of him)?
Though Abraham paid it just once and from spoils of war it doesn't follow that (even under the law) any tithe payer must only pay from spoils of war.
It is the act/practice that was adapted not the pattern of the first practice.

I know you're always sincere because you and I have had discussion before. Now, lemme split your posts:

Under the law,it was DEMANDED but Abraham "gave" without being asked to.

When you introduced me to a 'but' in your statement above. I believe one statement negates the other in the conjunction. If it was COMMANDED in the law but done as a freewill in the case of Abraham, why do I have to be threaten with a curse of not bringing it? That tells me, both are not the same. It should be by my own free and that's what the new testament clearly supports. Every giving is a certain percentage of one's income, be it 1.5%, 3%, 10%, 11%, 20.99% etc. That's if it is by law, it is no longer of Grace + faith.

Though Abraham paid it just once and from spoils of war it doesn't follow that (even under the law) any tithe payer must only pay from spoils of war. It is the act/practice that was adapted not the pattern of the first practice.

Obviously, you don't understand my question in the start - Christ is the foundation (1 Cor.3v11) and everything else, the Apostles built on that foundation not laying again another foundation. In the same manner, If Abraham's tithe is an extension that was formalized in the law, tithe-able items from the spoils of war would have been included in the tithe items. Items from war were never acceptable nor mentioned as tithe-able items before they were not graciously provided by God.

It is the act/practice that was adapted not the pattern of the first practice.

If it is the act\practice of tithe that was adopted and formalized, then the conditions also should be applied. The conditions of those who receive the tithe not working and not having inheritance, the tithers should be allowed to eat their tithes as they deem fit, and in the case of Abraham, the rest 90% should not be held unto by the tither, Abraham returned all and kept nothing because spoils from war doesn't belong to him. All terms and conditions also must apply if the practice\act is to be applied to Christians. What do you think?

Joagbaje: Is honoring your father and mother not preach able ? Is fasting not peaceable . You preach what you believe. Especially if you have bible backing or foundation for it the application gets results.

Cele people get results when they mix black with white. People get results when they visit herbalist etc. Does that make it right practice?

Joagbaje: The bible declares the blood of Jesus better than the blood of bulls. Blood of animals were to cover people flesh for a season . But the blood of christ is perfect and eternal . And it cleanses man spirit soul and body

You don't "understand" what he's asking. In the same old testament, why would the blood do something and not do somethings in the same old testament\covenant? Why would Christ, through his blood free us from animal sacrifices in the law and not free us from 'commandment to tithe' contained in the same mosaic teachings?

^ You can always go to wiki to support anything on your own desire. It's dangerous to have an opinion and just looking for bible verse to support it. Try to rightly divide the word of truth!

Many Christians still do not understand that liberty from the yokes and bondages of the law through Christ is the liberty to serve God in the new life without guilt and condemnations. To rightly divide the word of truth is to know what what said to who and at what dispensation it was said. You can say, God is the same yesterday, today and forever, please read the context in which that verse speaks.

Israel is not the church, Israel is part of the church. What was said to Israel under the law is not what was said to the church. Today, God had changed and no longer speak to us through the patriarch and prophets as of the old but now speaks to us, the church through and in Christ. When people take what was said to certain people at certain time and apply it to Christians, they wrongly divide the word of truth. Not everything in the bible is written to Christians to apply aside to know and understand God from beginning to present and beyond.

4 Likewise, my brethren, you have undergone death as to the Law through the [crucified] body of Christ, so that now you may belong to Another, to Him Who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 When we were living in the flesh (mere physical lives), the sinful passions that were awakened and aroused up by [what] the Law [makes sin] were constantly operating in our natural powers (in our bodily organs, in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh), so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now we are discharged from the Law and have terminated all intercourse with it, having died to what once restrained and held us captive. So now we serve not under [obedience to] the old code of written regulations, but [under obedience to the promptings] of the Spirit in newness [of life].

Romans 7
Amplified Bible (AMP)

New Living Translation
Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. Romans 3:19

Bidam: Who is a believer? Is a christian different from a believer? Your answer to who you are according to scriptures will address your question on Abraham.Thanks.

Don't prove to everyone you not capable of answering some intelligent simple question o. We have TWO examples of tithing here now - BEFORE THE LAW AS IN CASE WITH ABRAHAM. Then, the law tithing. Are both of them the SAME even though they both called tithe, my question was born when you people keep saying, the Abraham tithe WAS LATER INSTITUTED UNDER THE LAW. THEN, WHERE DOES THE LAW COMMANDED TITHE FROM SPOILS OF WAR....IF IT WAS ABRAHAM TITHE THAT WAS LATER INSTITUTED IN THE LAW?

anukulapo: You are right bro Gosh in as much as you agree that there is the Abraham's kinda tithe though it is diff by the method of application in the law of moses.
It was not left to the people's discretion in Moses but as a levy because it was God's social welfare system for the levites (who were full time ministers and didn't get land inheritance), the widows, orphans and strangers.

However,we must admit that its origin is not the law.
Just as the commandment to love is part of the mosaic law(and even regarded as the greatest commandment in the law by our lord Jesus) and it is also the hanger of the new covenant, thus tithing is pre-law, in the law, in the dispensation of grace also.
Shalom!

It's like saying a house doesn't originated from a foundation. If the tithe under the law does not originated from the Abraham tithe, it cannot be referenced just like Jesus wasn't referring to Abraham tithe under the law, Malachi wasn't reminding and cursing based on Abraham tithe example, it was all reference to the law tithe, why?

anukulapo: Brother,but you should know that the "law of moses" referred to as the law is not the source of tithing even though it was institutionalised in it along with other levies required from the people.

Bidam: Abeg help me tell them o. I don preach this thing so tay i don tire for nairaland. Tithes predates mosaic Law AND WAS REGULATED UNDER THE LAW. CHRISTIANS TITHE BY FAITH AND NOT BECAUSE THE LAW SAYS SO.

Question: Did God institutionalized Abraham kind of tithe IN THE LAW? That's, the law tithing and Abraham tithe, ARE THE THE SAME IN CONTENT AND COMMANDMENTS?

Gombs: Well, em rules are not feasible!

We are adults and brothers, we don't need rules and regulations, only mature and Christian discussion. The only thing on my side is, I will ask you some "hit and run" questions, just don't dodge them, I will like them answered with scripture references. I will not insult or call you or anyone names. Okay. That's me...let's roll it.

^ It's YOU & me that I really want discussion for. After all, you indicated your interest first. I'm still waiting for you o. I really love to do this discussion with you.

I love Christ righteousness FOR ME, to make me righteous before God instead of judgments for my sins. Glory be to God

Image123: eeeyah, it appears you are not reading what is being said, its becoming an hobby for you.

I read and understand your conditions and AGREED to them AND ALSO stated mine. I don't think there should be issues on that.

Anyway, if you're not going to engage me in this discussion, I will like Gombs to come up so him and I can take it up but I will still respond to you as D'boy stated.

Image123: Okay, okay, drumboy. You know what. i'll enter the DISCUSSION on one condition, that the discussants do not engage in any other tithe thread, or introduce tithe into other threads for the next two months apart from this thread. i no get time, i don tire for this tithe tithe talk all the time, but i go try sha. My brothers are simply tired, it is antitithers that are taking this thing as a do or die, like an addiction.
So, i await their agreement(Mark and Candour).
BTW, i do not think myself a theologian. Thanks.

As for me, I agree to your terms and conditions. Mine is for YOU or any tithe teachers to AGREE to answer the intelligent questions I will submit to you and ANSWER THEM WITH SCRIPTURE BACKING. DO NOT DODGE ANY QUESTION OF MINE AND I WON'T DODGE ANY OF Y'ALL.

Image123: The normal human will do excellently with 90%. Infact, 90% is excellent and A in most grading systems globally. i think something else is eating you, not the tenth. You do not claim to be a sheep or fellowship with sheep. i do not think you a sheep, so why the obsession for the precious sheep? The sheep that me i know take the spoiling of their goods joyfully and are not so engrossed in material wealth.

On the contrary, nobody holds 90% of his or her income to spend. Take away taxes, expenses on personal and families, take away giving etc where do you still have 90% to yourself?

We are contending false hopes given to God people. In this case, faith should hang on God hope in the finished works of Christ.

This is a discussion, not a debate thread. We both listen to each other.

Maybe I'm so much in a haste and we aren't seeing the tithe teachers here. Okay. I will cool down.

But wait o. E be like say this thread will blow breeze and fowl yansh go open and these our brothers already sense it in the spirit because I can't understand why a thread is now on 3 pages and yet, those called out aren't showing up.

Grace, be multiplied unto you. You are blessed.

DrummaBoy: Thank you Goshen for shifting this to another thread. It is obvious that Gombs wants a debate and that is not the intention of this thread. It is supposed to be a discussion.

I will however be visiting that thread to see how things are going.

Actually, we can do all discussions here. If there's one person I know and can lay my life down that this person CANNOT answer to intelligent and biblical reasonable questions, it is OLAADEGBU. He has never followed any biblical discussion without lifting article which is a school of thought from another man.

This is going to be interesting seeing him here because my thing is, I will ask the brother some questions, and his legs go dey literally dey shake.

frosbel: still twisting Malachi to support a LIE.

smh.

No, you don't under our modus operandi do you? Tithe is eternal and kingdom PRINCIPLES AND IT EXISTED BEFORE THE LAW BUT we will run to the law to issue threat, condemnations and devourer, otherwise, these people will not pay tithe o.

Bidam, can you tell the difference between the Law (Torah) and the law (contained in the Torah)?

Gombs: I want goshen.... Or I'd wait for him sha


And so far na tithes, twil end up as a debate.

I'm sorry but I didn't read your above...tis not how I visioned the discussion to be.

Maybe I'd pass

You sure you want "DISCUSSION" with me on tithing? Na koboko wey Lord Jesus used remain take wip those people remain I go take wip you. I don't mine discussion with you though BUT IF YOU DON'T MIND IT SLOWLY BECAUSE I'M VERY BUSY NOW BUT WILL ALWAYS COME A RESPOND DAILY....However, I will request it ON A SEPARATE\NEW THREAD that cite your I.D and mine. Oya, let's go there if you don chop the word belle-full...

^ I'm a living witness that God's blessing doesn't come by tithing IF ONLY THESE FALSE TITHE TEACHERS KNOW WHAT CHRIST HAD DONE FOR US in the finished works, they will not want to take us back under a curse like they did to the Galatians. Also, they do not understand the faithfulness of God BECAUSE OF WHAT CHRIST DID...that even when you don't tithe, God is still gonna bless ANY MAN that is hardworking, prays and is a giver. They do not understand the new covenant enacted by Christ's blood IS NOT A CONTINUATION TO THE OLD and not a conditional covenant. We can sound the faithfulness of God and his bless that had come to us WITHOUT TITHING (WORKS) less any man should boast.

This is REALLY gonna be interesting o.

~ following with passion ~