₦airaland Forum

gomojam:
Pls bring proof that Benin ever conquered the Ijebu. Abeg.

There is a town in ogun state founded by a benin monarchy

She wouldn't learn, trying to fool her brothers to believe benin-ife existed so ahe can boast on yoruba ego.....

I have really not seen any ife person on nairaland i guess ife is a typical village even the ooni regrets staying and probably thats why he is always off on various occasions on Tinubu's demand

But we will be having drunkards from the different yoruba state defending a town they wont even visit till they die all for what yoruba pride......

Mugu and cowardice at its best.....

Just as we will go one day, before we all go let's do something for our nation nigeria


Lets liberate the new generation from the hands of the selfish African politicians

Na small she take fine pass boborisky

Anyway we move

Tao11 goes insane when you beat her to our points after she dedicated her time doing research for it only for her to be beaten by a guy who never put in any effort on any of the research, its annoying


I blame her for her agony and flipping insanity come to think of it, she doesn't mind if the information she found during her research is true or not as long as it supports her ego she will post


Her foolish kingsmen would applaud her to it, after all they are nether from ife or benin so they dont even bother doing their own research as far TAO11 is defending yorubas they will support

Even if we benins plans to remove her head they would still allow her go

samuk:
Earlier on the thread she was trying to claim Itsekiri monarchy through the Benin royal house which she claimed to be Ife.

She has now finally washed her hands off claiming Benin/Ife relationship because she can't provide it beyond the 1800s, very soon she will also wash her hands off her Oro Oba Ado, Oba of Benin supposed burial site at Ife because there is also no evidence to back that up. Gradually all Yoruba claims on Benin history is being destroyed one by one.

They just want to force the benin-ife connection for supiority gains and we are not letting them to it, gone are those we argue blindly this time no need for arguments on unverified myth

Dis could be us but she dey support Buhari

TAO11:
Haha!

So, no Bini is able to substantiate their delusional claim that YoRuBa bOrRoWeD oBa FrOm uS aFtEr 1 9 3 8. This is a huge disgrace of astronomical magnitude on all Bini liars.

So, no Bini is able to substantiate their delusional claim that some 6 0 0 yEaRs oLd wRiTiNg uses the word “oba” for a Benin monarch. This is a colossal embarrassment to all Bini clowns.

————————
PS

So what change, does it.make benin-ife have a connection

Yoruba clown......

Edo odion


Oba gha to kpere ise

Sewgon79:
Stop speaking gilbrish. I have known this as tradition long time ago when I was young before I even know that there is town or village call Benin in Edo.

Mind you before you start tagging, I will love you to know that I am from a Royal family from Ijebu Ilese and my father was supposed to be the king then, due to his religion beliefs. He reject it and allow his cousin to be king. Till my father died, the king still respect my father.

That is how I know few things about kings in Yoruba and their traditions. In Yorùbá land, if a genuine king and powerful kings like that of Ancestral King, like that of Ooni of Ife. If you are a woman and you are on menstrual period and move close to you or touches you. That woman can never gave birth to child again. Also if the king like that of Ooni of ife sees new baby hair, I mean the hair that the baby was born with. That will surely died before seven days. And also if the mother of the new born baby if she is still seeing blood and she came cross with kings like Ooni. There is spiritual and traditional repercussions.

So don't feel important, the baálé of Lagoon (Lagos) can copy from you Benin. But you Benin are learning when it come to cradle of civilization, Ile ife (Ifè Odaye).

But Benin borrowed all their traditions from Ile Ife. That is what makes you different from the rest Edo monarch and you look similar to Yoruba monarch.

Benin and ile ife in the same sentence how do they have connections, if so, show me a European document of it

I can show you Europeans documents of benin-jebu, benin-eko, benin itsekiri


But am yet to see benin-ife


Stop believing im every super story they tell you


Now the nonsense you narrated there only applies to jebu and not all jebu people so stop generising bro


The intial topic read ooni ife would begin to stop seeing his so

I know you read English, so dont read in yoruba this time,



I must defend yoruba against another tribe mtcheew

All the way from ijebu you know wetin dey happen for ife, no wonder yoruba history get kleg

macof:
1. After 4 days

You and Samuk are going through all the stages of grief
From denial to anger (even wishing me dead) now wallowing around bargaining to acceptance..

2. Which Europeans wrote at the trial of King Ovonramwen 1897 not as early as the Yoruba instances brought up on this thread.
And calling personal names doesn't mean anything.. That is not in reference to the king of benin

3. Going by your usual logic that all things must be documented yes.
Going by the logic of your king that Oranmiyan was the first person known as Oba in Benin, also yes
Going by the logic of historians and scholars that the word "Ọba" goes back to the 13 Ife nobles who ruled Ife together before Oduduwa, also yes

Lol, funny can i see a document were a Yoruba king was referred to obs by his name pre 1900



Oronmiyan in benin are you high.......

Going by the logic since the king of benin wasnt referred to as oba by the European then the benins must have borrowed it after 1900


That means there was no second dynasty since the king of benin would ogie of benun edo


Macof you need to cool you're hallucinating



The transgendered tao11 is yet to prove ife-benin connections



If youre going to bring samuel johson reports of calling yoruba kings oba thrn you must be joking


Someone who said the oba of benin was the second to last born to oromiyan


That same idiot use the same tittle that he knew belongs to the oba of benin and decuded to use it as a generic term for yoruba kings dont you find it fishy


You becoming to desperate desperation brings insanity dint go that route with already mad TAO11

macof:
You would first provide documented evidence of the word Ọba used to refer to the throne you now call "Oba of Benin" from the beginning of your 400 years history

It is not available, the oba refers to as king in European text but the word obaseki which the European wrote as abbasski, shows that indeed words like oba was present in benin




And if he can't present it what change,


Does it give yoruba the upper hand for the ownership of oba....


Because we know after 1930 yorubas kings began using oba with their titles to address themselves to uplift their dead history


Same way samuel johnson to sell is dead oyo centric books

macof:
subjugation in your mind you mean

I don't see you provide documentation of this. Provide the 400 year old document that says Bini subjugated yorubas

Foolish questions

TAO11:
Let’s welcome on board the illiterate-in-chief 1 of Benin kingdom — the AreaDullard himself.

Perhaps, you will be the messiah whom your fellow clowns need to meet the inane standard they have (unknowingly) set for themselves — which I am simply holding them to.

Now with regards to the bolded above, I do not (for the umpteenth time) have even an atom-weight burden of proof to present any such early writing.

It’s high time you all mustered the courage to pick up a book and read up on what ’burden of proof’ is. You all’s celebration of illiteracy is appalling!

Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit — that is: the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim.

In other words, at no point did I ever claim to have any pre-1900 written evidence of some alternative word which was allegedly used in the pre-1900s to describe a Benin monarch. I never made any such claim.

In sum: If it is not claimed, it is not an obligation to be fulfilled.

Instead, it is the Benin clown-in-cheifs who made the delusional chesty claim of a “600 years” old [or even a 19th century] writing which allegedly identifies a Benin monarch as “Oba”.

Given that a claim was made in this case, it then necessarily follows — from a logical standpoint — that a burden of proof is to be borne.

But unfortunately, we are yet to see any such evidence come to life from our Benin clowns. What a shame!?

Having said that, I for a fact have gone beyond the call of duty (having no burden of written evidence) to have substantiated some very specific position which I didn’t even (originally) claim. Lol! Isn’t that amazing?

I have submitted multiple, independent, pre-1900 written evidence which in some cases names (and in other cases simply describes) a particular Yoruba monarch as “Oba”.

You all should wake up and smell the coffee. Provide the evidence for your claim that the there exists some “600 years” old [or even 19th century] writings which identifies a Benin monarch as “Oba”.

None has been provided so far. Help each other if you must.

Peace!

cc: @Afam4eva, @macof, @RedboneSmith, @scholes0

You dont get it do you,


If there was no benin-ife connection then there was no oromiyan coming to establish an oba dynasty


We will be faced with how did the word oba find is way to benin or yoruba land

then we will begin to trace benin sovereignty over yorubas,


This would further explain, the word Oba was borrowed from the benin people by the yorubas since there was no ife benin connection
That ought to have brought the word




Yes, i have done my research for now all documents from the British, regards the oba of benin as king in their text and not oba as we all had thought, but this does not remove the fact his title was different from oba, as a matter of fact during the British trial of oba ovaremwen, some chiefs who bore the name and the prefix oba in their names like. obaseki, obayuwana were also tried with their name spelt out, this shows that, the word oba is not new in benin even if it wasn't used to adress the oba of benin ein the British text that was the Europeans palavaba and not the benin


Why not concentrate your efforts on researching on the ife benin connection
you now seem to be scared of gregyboy , i guess i beat your lean ass blue black in our last debate you ran into oblivion for a proper research, you found something new about the oba title called king, and you brought further fake pictures to draw your line on the benin-ife connection

Smell the cofee all your brothers are quite now, unlike before their mouths were running as taps

Afam4eva, RedboneSmith, Scholes macof

TAO11:
Great to hear that you are already going in the same direction where the facts have been going so far on this thread.

Just to be clear on the point I’ve been making so far on this thread so I am not misconstrued:

(1) I haven’t claimed that “oba” was never used by the Binis until the 1900s.

(2) I haven’t claimed that there is no 1800s writing which uses the word “oba” arguably in relation to Benin monarchy — although none of them is yet able to provide any such writing.


Rather, my position is as follows for the umpteenth time:

(1) The claim of the Benin Clown-In-Chief (that there is no pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” usage for Yoruba monarchs) is ignorantly false and laughable — And I demonstrated my position with actual evidence.

(2) The shifted claim of the Benin Clown-In-Chief (that there is no pre-1900 written evidence which mentions a Yoruba monarch by name alongside the word “oba”) is also ignorantly false and laughable — And I demonstrated my position with actual evidence.

(3) The claim of the Benin Clown-In-Chief (that there exist some “600 years” old written evidence of “oba” usage for Beni monarchs) is a bogus and delusional claim.

(4) In the light of his own claims, there is no written evidence either from the 1800s, or 1700s, or 1600s, or 1500s, etc which names a Benin monarch alongside the word “oba”.

(5) In the light of his own claim, there is no written evidence either from the 1700s, or 1600s, or 1500s, etc. which uses “oba” in relation to Benin monarchy.

Having said all that, a final acid test which would in fact close and conclude this discourse for you — as to who originally owns “oba” — is to consider this from the lenses of each of the two respective languages themselves, viz. the Yoruba language and the Edo language.

From the lenses of the Yoruba language, the syllabic components of the word “ọba” are (obviously) “ọ” and “ba”.

The meaning of this base word “ba” in the Yoruba language is clear and accessible even to the average speaker — it means: to “overlord”, etc.

Its prefix “ọ“ describes the noun who performs the action conveyed by the base word. Innumerable similar examples as this abound in everyday usage.

In sum, the word ”ọba” — from the lenses of the Yoruba language — means: the “one who overlords”, or “the overlord” for short.

Notice how this meaning (via the Yoruba language lenses) fits monarchy like a glove.

Guess what! The same thing can not be said from the Edo point of view. And the reason is not far-fetched at all. A loan term can not possibly be meaningfully analyzed from the point of view of the recipient-language.

Challenge one of them to see for yourself.

cc: RedboneSmith, macof

———————-
@Afam4eva: I’m certain that you’re aware no one claims that Europeans visited Africa prior to the present and second dynasty of the Binis.

Also, I know you’re aware that the obligation to prove an assertion lies with whoever makes the said assertion.

Please share me the link or the reference to those scholars you cited that made use of oba as generic name for king 1800

Do You agree that The European made mention of the word oba to address the king of Benin

If no then wait for me

[quote author=macof post=96263656]interesting. google is now your evidence?
you can't be asking yorubas for documented evidence for very obvious facts all the time, which we still provide and when the tables are turned on you , you fail to provide yours.
if you can't provide evidence of bini use of the word 'oba' in pre-1900s then by your usual logic, that must mean the oba of benin is a recent position[/quote

AreaFada2:
Guys, make una nor just worry una sef. The many publications I saw like 15 to 20 years ago in academic journals, about Benin Empire and Yoruba states, I regret not saving them. I never knew such arguments like these would ever come up. When I had cause to do work on ethics, philosophy and religion. I really explored humanities publications from across the world. Because ordinarily I would be busy with scientific publications.
The new Royal Museum (Edo Museum of West African Art/EMOWA) in Benin, in conjunction with British Museum in pipeline will bring many historical discussions over time.

https://blog.britishmuseum.org/major-new-archaeology-project-on-site-of-new-museum-in-benin/#:~:text=The%20new%20archaeological%20project%20is,the%20world%20of%20Benin%20Bronzes.

It's also on BBC webpage.

So they are returning the Benin artwork

When Nigeria still be like this I laugh
Make dem rest

TAO11:
The word used by other Edo-speaking monarch’s for “king” all appear to be around the Edo root-word “ogie” — “king”.

Many word deriving from this word are used by the Edos and allied-people for “king” till date. Consider the following examples:

(1) “Ogiso” (from: “ogie-iso” — meaning: the “king from the sky” ).

Historically, this was the epithet used by the Edo supreme rulers in their first dynasty prior to their shift and adoption of “Oba” from the beginning of their second dynasty.


(2) “Ogiamien” (“the king of the [Edo] country” ).

Historically, this was the epithet used by the Edo regents during the intermediate period (interregnum) between the first dynasty and the second dynasty.

Till date, the “Ogiamien” royal family line still survives in Benin. They insist, till date, that the present ruling royal family of Benin (i.e. “Oba” ) is a foreign non-Bini lineage all the way from Ife.

(3) “Ogiame” (from “ogie-ame“ — meaning: the “king over the waters” ).

Till date, the personal names of Itsekiri kings are prefixed by the word “ogiame” by virtue of their connection to the monarchy of Benin.

(4) The following are some other derived words from “ogie” used by Edo-related monarchies (such as Urhobo, et al.) around today’s South-South Nigeria: “Enogie”, “Ovie”, “Orodje”, et al.

Afam4eva


Please let him tell us were the European referred the oba of Benin as Ogiso


Then the name Ogiso was also borrowed from the Yoruba people or it was adopted by Benin people untill 1900

TAO11:
Lol! May be in IQ level.


However, gregyboy and Edeyoung are actually one and the same person.

I thought I should put this information out there so folks are aware when they’re dealing with one and the same individual.

Trying to guess my identity again with the Edeyoung guy... Lol


My beating on you is berserk


Since the benin king never used the title oba till 1900,then it just goes along proving my point oromiyan who happens to have brought the title to benin never again

But send me the link and reference to do point you gave

My damaging is really affecting the yorubas they want to report me

macof:
the emotional trauma is heavy. Madness is setting in, curses are now involved

Anyway I will report this regardless. You need to learn how to keep quiet and stop embarrassing yourself next time

Ooh you want to send me away

Anyway it's nice

RedboneSmith:
That is not for me to prove. Y'all first said the Yoruba didn't use oba until the last century. That has been proven on this thread to be an ignorant lie.

All that we're asking is for you to also prove that you used oba pre-1900. At this point no one is saying you didn't. Just prove it. The way the Yoruba have proved theirs.


I am amused at the fact that you keep bringing up my ethncity as if that has any bearing on anything. I am a historian. Ethnicity has nothing to do with who can study history and who can discuss it.

The tile, the oba of benin was called in the past


Was omonoba nedo ukwakpolopolo and it wasnt in the shortened form as oba

So is it safe to say since benin never bore the word oba then it was true to say benin never had relationship with oromiyan or ife who ought to have brought the title oba to benin


The title omonoba is then indigenous to benin people

[quote author=macof post=96259243][/quote]You want to prove omoriyan in benin when benin never used the name till 1930

macof:
That is not the assignment you have boy

Provide a pre - 1900s document using the word "oba" to address a particular Ọmọnọba

Provide the 1896 document not a rephrased quotation in a recent paper, let's see

You miscreants started it by asking TAO11 for a pre-1900s document which she has provided, now when asked to provide your own two days of sleepless nights and extensive research now still no answer


Below is a pre-1900s document showing Yoruba Kings referred to as Oba.
This is what you should have done


www.nairaland.com/attachments/12712594_20201120li_jpeg669beaef00c457b182431ec02a16e2d9

Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “The earth and Its Inhabitants", Vol. 12, Published 1882, p.265

You are mad at bolded



Very mad and its not funny

The earth kiill you there

RedboneSmith:
How is it possible for anyone to be this stupid? How?

The quote from Consul-General Philips does not contain the word oba. The word oba appears in the rest of the footnote, and was written by the author of that particular paper deep in the 20th century.

Modafuka igbo man? Lol. Okay. I will sha insult you because you don't have sense, but I won't drag your ethnicity into it.

So you mean the author wrote the name oba, if the quote was originally written as king, he probably would have also wrote it as king and not oba,


Bro, what is your point in all this?
the title oba is indigenous to yorubas so how did benin get it,
When did the benins adopt the name oba for their king title, and what was their title before then if dey had...?

[quote author=samuk post=96257156][/quote]Leave d igbo guy to be talking nonsense

They are yet to prove d titles benin used before tge arrival of whitemen

[quote author=samuk post=96257156][/quote]Leave that wise igboman make e dey support nonsense

RedboneSmith:
Oh please, shut the fùck up with the "You're Igbo, you shouldn't be here" tripe.

Also shut the fùck up with the "We introduced the word to the Yoruba" nonsense, unless you have concrete evidence to back it up. Over 400 years of written records before 1900, and you can't even find the word 'oba' in just one of the records. Nigga, please.

And my screenshot wss what

You are bittered towards we benins


And you cant hide it


So you mean benin never had title for his king
Before they adopted oba at the given year

Can you hear yourself and what you support

So the benin king was titlesss good one brilliant
Guy


Because the oba of benin wasnt always addresses by the title oba then he never had a title


Modafuka igbo man

macof:
Lmao

Are you having a laff because TAO11 is scared to quote me


Its funny right

RedboneSmith:
This is goalpost shifting at its worst. Initially you people said the Yoruba didn't use oba pre-1900. Now that you've seen evidence from 1882 you want to change mouth.

Meanwhile, I have seen two Yoruba dictionaries from 1852 and 1858 respectively that contain the word oba.

The word oba was used in yoruba but benin introduced it to them through it influence from Eastern Yoruba, the word oba means king and it was not used as a generic title for kings until 1930

Did you read my previous comments


Guy you shouldn't be here you're igbo so stay clear off


Before you stick your mouth while not wait till the debate is over


Am still checking d pdf for its validation

And we benins never said dey never used d world before 1930 we said we brought the word oba to them through eastern Yoruba


So if the yoruba own the word oba how did it get to benin if i may ask