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Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 3:55pm On Nov 20, 2020
macof:
Please stick to the matter at hand. I know you are sobbing right now and feeling very emotionally traumatised but try ehn, sorry.
Just provide the thing we are asking grin
You know you asked us first, we have provided our own
So am i going off track


Probably you are the one unsettled


Read my other comments and give me answers
Seems TAO11 these days is scared to quote me
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 3:54pm On Nov 20, 2020
macof:
Please stick to the matter at hand. I know you are sobbing right now and feeling very emotionally traumatised but try ehn, sorry.
Just provide the thing we are asking grin
You know you asked us first, we have provided our own
At 1882, nigeria was already been formed as a country the process was already going on and the British were many years in Yoruba land already



So a writer referring the monarch as oba in 1882 was normal, at 1882 the yorubas have already united for political gains so common words were already shared from eastern Yoruba to western yoruba

And the title oba was only the most renowed name for king in the then nigeria because of the influence of oba of benin, so she using the title oba for Yoruba king was not from yoruba knowledge but from her own independent knowledge


The British renamed oba of lagos from eleko n eko, not because oba of lagos was the name but because the name oba was already known for king in nigeria


So calling the yoruba kings obbas was her own decisions from a renowned name for king in benin
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 3:44pm On Nov 20, 2020
TAO11:
@Afam4eva, do you notice that our Benin entertainer appears to have just admitted that his bogus and baseless claim that Yoruba monarchs didn’t use “oba” in the pre-1900s have been debunked — Since he never dared to bring up the claim again anywhere in his foregoing ramblings. grin


Secondly, it is vital that you are made aware that despite his foregoing ramblings, he never adduced even one shred of pre-1900 statement which depicts the use of “oba” for Benin monarchs.

NOT A SINGLE ONE of the statements he dumped above as showing “oba” for the Benin monarch is from a pre-1900 work. Not one! grin

——————————
For example, a part of his above comment reads:

“In the early 16th century, the Oba sent an ambassador to Lisbon ...”.

However, this precise wording — which he has lifted off Wikipedia — is simply not found in the original work itself.

Moreover, the actual work itself does not use the word “oba”, but instead uses the word “king”.

The original wording from the actual work actually reads as follows:

“... And the King of Beny sent to the King (of Portugal) as Ambassador a negro ...”

Reference: Ruy de Pina’s “Chronica”; Chap. xxiv., Discovery of Beny, quoted in H.L. Roth, 1903, pp. 4-5.

This may make one actually wonder why such an early and quite primary writing on Benin does not use the word “oba” for a Benin monarch. wink

Moreover, another part of the same comment reads:

“Given this characterization of the Benin culture, it might be understood that the Oba did not accept any colonial aspirations. As soon as the Oba began to suspect Britain of larger colonial designs, ...”.

These exact words as they appear here from his comment were also lifted off Wikipedia from where they are referenced (not even as a quotation) to a year 2010 work — a freaking year 2010 work by Neil MacGregor entitled “A History of the World in 100 Objects” grin

In all, our Benin entertainer has been disgraced not only as a disgruntled ignoramus, but also as a fraud. smiley

I am more than convinced at this point that, you and everyone else reading now know better to not take any of their bogus, baseless, grandiose claims seriously.

Notice that he has just made other fresh and independent baseless claims (on Yoruba history) in his foregoing comment as a distractive tactic.

I refuse to be distracted into another false and baseless Benin propaganda. I am also aware that everyone now knows better to not take his sorry ass seriously any more. grin

In sum:
(1) Our Benin entertainer has been debunked over his claim that Yoruba monarchs didn’t use “oba” in the pre-1900s.

(2)(i) Our Benin entertainer is yet to provide one pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Benin monarchs.

(2)(ii) Or to be more in line with his own specific claim, he has failed repeatedly to provide one “600 years” old written evidence of “oba” for Benin monarchs.

It is my pleasure to have disgraced him before all and sundry. Going forward, he must be reluctant to peddle lies. He has learnt the hard way. grin

Peace!

cc: RuggedSniper, DenreleDave, gomojam, macof, Juliusmalema
So when did the king of benin changed from king of benin to oba of benin

And what title were the benin kings using then

So the oba of benin never had title that's why the British called him king abi?
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 3:35pm On Nov 20, 2020
macof:
grin grin grin lmao
Lmoa, its funny



You dont being evidence to me without evaluating it first, because i will rubbish to your face


Everyone knows little was known of the yorubas untill the British began colonization


Now was she making a report speech or she was
Making a direct speech


At 1882

The Europeans were already in the heart of yoruba land

Now we are also going to check if it was a revised edition
I will have to check d pdf later
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 3:28pm On Nov 20, 2020
macof:
scroll up and stop embarrassing your ethnicity
I didn't see any evidence so that's why am asking
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 3:24pm On Nov 20, 2020
macof:
That is not the assignment you have boy

Provide a pre - 1900s document using the word "oba" to address a particular Ọmọnọba

Provide the 1896 document not a rephrased quotation in a recent paper, let's see grin

You miscreants started it by asking TAO11 for a pre-1900s document which she has provided, now when asked to provide your own two days of sleepless nights and extensive research now still no answer grin grin


Below is a pre-1900s document showing Yoruba Kings referred to as Oba.
This is what you should have done cheesy


www.nairaland.com/attachments/12712594_20201120li_jpeg669beaef00c457b182431ec02a16e2d9

Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “The earth and Its Inhabitants", Vol. 12, Published 1882, p.265
I will check d pdf later on


If you have anymore evidence bring them foward


First of all did she visit nigeria, if not how did she know there was a word ilke obba used by yorubas


Answer those questions before i begin checking the pdf for validation


Valirex
Ghostwon
AreaFada2
Etinosa1234
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 3:17pm On Nov 20, 2020
macof:
grin grin what clowns

Bini miscreants - Oba is a Bini word yoruba stole it and deceived everybody that it is their word, yoruba can't provide evidence of using the word before 1900
Tao11 - *provides documents showing yoruba used the word before 1900
Bini miscreants - Show us the particular oba that was referred to with the word 'oba'
Tao11- *provides evidence of Jayin, Ajagbo and Abipa*.. Show us your own evidence of bini using the word before 1900
bini miscreants - *no evidence* *wailing and sobbing* are you saying oba of benin was called something else before 1900

clowns grin grin
Please let me see the evidence TAO11 brought forwards let me evaluate them myself
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 3:15pm On Nov 20, 2020
macof:
please be sticking to the matter at hand. provide a pre-1900s document showing bini use of the word "oba" to address any particular king of benin. we are not doing take it or leave it here. You can't make ridiculous wild claims that you can't defend

just to show you what you are expected to do
here is a document from 1882 by Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane refering to yoruba kings as 'oba' [this is not even the earliest volume]
do the needful or just keep quiet next time to avoid unnecessary embarrassment
Please give us the link to get this pdf, let see if your dating is correct
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 2:08pm On Nov 20, 2020
While yorubas wait for benin to make history so they can steal it they shouldnt forget the benin people will defend their history to the core


Let me remind you all of recent history edo had made since they created nigeria

The first man to ask for independence was an edo man Anthony enarohoro

The first man to give free education at basic level
In nigeria was an edo man ambrose ali

The first peaceful protest of the endsars started in edo state

The first violent protest in the endsars started also in edo


While you all yorubas wait to steal our history dont forget to make yours
Culture › Re: Ooni Of Ife Forbidden From Seeing His New Born Prince Now by gregyboy(m):
They want to blike the benin tradition


Yoruba are altering their traditions to fit the benin tradition everyday


Lol


A tradition benin had let go off is what the ooni wants to institute



The benin tradition was put in place to protect the king from being killed by over zealous prince
Who would poison the oba or kill him to quickly ascend the throne


In modern age nothing like that could happen again, but yorubas not knowing this wants to adopt it foolishly all in a bid to be like benin culture

We are here in the nearest future their children would be using it to show similarities between ife andbenin and even claim origin to it


Etinosa1234
Samuk
Valirex
Ghostwon
AreaFada2
Afam4eva
Ruggedsniper
Sewgon79
Segundo
TAO11
TAO12
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 12:22pm On Nov 20, 2020
TAO11:
Let’s continue to wait for the pre-1900 written evidence of Benin usage of “oba”.

Hopefully we won’t wait till “thy kingdom come”. cheesy

See you soon @Afam4eva and everyone else! cool
Funny lady


Did you see when he also made use of the word jekiri he would have used the word itskeri if he was the one that made the quote, the author was definitely giving a direct quotation from what he quoted

Those words were in quotes and was written in subscript to show it is a quote, and not from the author



Again the word oba was used there becauss the white men were passing the said message within themselves in africa so when he use the word oba it could be understood to his fellow whitemen in africa too

But that would be impossible if they were writing outside Africa or Europe


Please get your fact right


Etinosa1234
Samuk
Valirex
Ghostwon
AreaFada2
Afam4eva
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 12:21pm On Nov 20, 2020
TAO11:
Hey macof: Please hurry up and see something oo. grin cheesy

They’ve begin attaching post-1900 journal articles wherein the modern author used the word “Oba” while he alludes to pre-1900 events about the Benin king. Wonderful! grin

For the sake of the unsuspecting readers whom these fraudulent elements are bent to prey on, please note that no part of the actual QUOTATION FROM 1896 in the first attachment above shows the word “oba”.

Refer to my red horizontal highlights in the attachment below to notice the beginning and end of the actual quotation from 1896.

Watch out for the opening and closing quotation marks. cool
Funny lady


Did you see when he also made use of the word jekiri, the author was definitely giving a direct quotation from what he quoted

Those words were in quotes and was written in subscript to show it is a quote, and not from the author



Again the word oba was used there becauss the white men were passing the said message within themselves in africa so when he use the word oba it could be understood to his fellow whitemen in africa too

But that would be impossible if they were writing outside Africa or Europe


Please get your fact right


Etinosa1234
Samuk
Valirex
Ghostwon
AreaFada2
Afam4eva
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 12:08pm On Nov 20, 2020
TAO11:
In addition to the earlier disgraceful damage from another disgruntled Bini, I’m becoming more curious as to why the standard of the challenge appears to dropping.

The arbitrary standard set by our original Benin entertainer was to present a NAMED king with the accompanying word “oba” from a pre-1900 writing.

But unfortunately so far, we haven’t been provided with either a pre-1900 writing which names a Benin king with the accompanying word “oba”; or even a pre-1900 work which simply uses the word “oba” in a Benin royal context. None!

Yet the Yorubas have met the arbitrary standard again and again on this same thread — and will even meet a stricter standard.

What a pity to those who claimed to have lent the word “oba” to the Yorubas?! Lol.

cc: Afam4eva
Lol, funny lady,

The Europeans most times never knew the name of the oba of benin maybe probably the difficulty in writing the names down

So most times they go straight foward like this

The king of benin, that.... That that or
They say The he oba of benin

Most times they use the word king, for easy explanation to the Europeans they were to,



cc: Afam4eva
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 11:48am On Nov 20, 2020
TAO11:
@Afam4eva, do you notice that our Benin entertainer appears to have just admitted that his bogus and baseless claim that Yoruba monarchs didn’t use “oba” in the pre-1900s have been debunked — Since he never dared to bring up the claim again anywhere in his foregoing ramblings. grin


Secondly, it is vital that you are made aware that despite his foregoing ramblings, he never adduced even one shred of pre-1900 statement which depicts the use of “oba” for Benin monarchs.

NOT A SINGLE ONE of the statements he dumped above as showing “oba” for the Benin monarch is from a pre-1900 work. Not one! grin

——————————
For example, a part of his above comment reads:

“In the early 16th century, the Oba sent an ambassador to Lisbon ...”.

However, this precise wording — which he has lifted off Wikipedia — is simply not found in the original work itself.

Moreover, the actual work itself does not use the word “oba”, but instead uses the word “king”.

The original wording from the actual work actually reads as follows:

“... And the King of Beny sent to the King (of Portugal) as Ambassador a negro ...”

Reference: Ruy de Pina’s “Chronica”; Chap. xxiv., Discovery of Beny, quoted in H.L. Roth, 1903, pp. 4-5.

This may make one actually wonder why such an early and quite primary writing on Benin does not use the word “oba” for a Benin monarch. wink

Moreover, another part of the same comment reads:

“Given this characterization of the Benin culture, it might be understood that the Oba did not accept any colonial aspirations. As soon as the Oba began to suspect Britain of larger colonial designs, ...”.

These exact words as they appear here from his comment were also lifted off Wikipedia from where they are referenced (not even as a quotation) to a year 2010 work — a freaking year 2010 work by Neil MacGregor entitled “A History of the World in 100 Objects” grin

In all, our Benin entertainer has been disgraced not only as a disgruntled ignoramus, but also as a fraud. smiley

I am more than convinced at this point that, you and everyone else reading now know better to not take any of their bogus, baseless, grandiose claims seriously.

Notice that he has just made other fresh and independent baseless claims (on Yoruba history) in his foregoing comment as a distractive tactic.

I refuse to be distracted into another false and baseless Benin propaganda. I am also aware that everyone now knows better to not take his sorry ass seriously any more. grin

In sum:
(1) Our Benin entertainer has been debunked over his claim that Yoruba monarchs didn’t use “oba” in the pre-1900s.

(2)(i) Our Benin entertainer is yet to provide one pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Benin monarchs.

(2)(ii) Or to be more in line with his own specific claim, he has failed repeatedly to provide one “600 years” old written evidence of “oba” for Benin monarchs.

It is my pleasure to have disgraced him before all and sundry. Going forward, he must be reluctant to peddle lies. He has learnt the hard way. grin

Peace!

cc: RuggedSniper, DenreleDave, gomojam, macof, Juliusmalema
Afam4eva please dont mind TAO11
The benin and ife never had anything in common or even had an history together

The history you hear on benin oromiyan and ife was made up after the creation of nigeria to falsely unite benin kingdom to the yoruba for political gains but it didnt work out, because ths benins spoke a different language from the other yorubas,
that does not mean that benin never had contact with other yorubas before the creation of nigeria, they had but not to all yorubas, we had relationship with people like eko, aworis, ijebu, ekiti, ondo and this yorubas were noted by Europeans and not ife

You should also know that ife was not the ancestral home of the yorubas they made it also for political reasons after the creation of nigeria


Back to the name OBA, it is a benin name, while the Europeans were writing their encounters in benin to the other European for easy explanation they remove the title oba and replace it with the word king or something representing king in their dialect but that does not mean he wasnt referred to as oba while the Europeans were relating to him directly or any African people


The word oba got into the yoruba lexicon when benin expanded his territores into yoruba areas and reigned sovereign over them, just imagine benin ruling over ekiti, jebu, ondo, and lagos
That alone is enough for benin to pass it culture amongst this yoruba people


There is a parable in ondo which says that just as the sky king commands respect in heaven
Same way the oba of benin commands respect on earth

Just imagine the fear the oba instill on the yoruba people

Before the creation of nigeria no one apart from the oba of benin used the word oba to address himself as a king not even the oba of lagos, he used to be known as eleko n eko

It became a general world for king amongst the yorubas after 1930 to promote their own traditional stool to the world

Remember the oba of benin had accepted to be under the yoruba umbrella for political gains around 1914, from the yoruba people, so when the yorubas started using the title oba for the general word for king he never objected


This does not mean that the world oba wasnt in Yoruba lingua before 1930 it was there, but it was foreign to them or i would say a borrowed word which they borrowed from benin, as result of benin influence on yorubas, but they couldn't use it to represent their title because they know the oba of benin would frown at it
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 11:10am On Nov 20, 2020
I want to be fully involve in this thread


Am coming


In

Right now
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 11:04am On Nov 20, 2020
TAO11:
@Afam4eva, do you notice that our Benin entertainer appears to have just admitted that his bogus and baseless claim that Yoruba monarchs didn’t use “oba” in the pre-1900s have been debunked — Since he never dared to bring up the claim again anywhere in his foregoing ramblings. grin


Secondly, it is vital that you are made aware that despite his foregoing ramblings, he never adduced even one shred of pre-1900 statement which depicts the use of “oba” for Benin monarchs.

NOT A SINGLE ONE of the statements he dumped above as showing “oba” for the Benin monarch is from a pre-1900 work. Not one! grin

——————————
For example, a part of his above comment reads:

“In the early 16th century, the Oba sent an ambassador to Lisbon ...”.

However, this precise wording — which he has lifted off Wikipedia — is simply not found in the original work itself.

Moreover, the actual work itself does not use the word “oba”, but instead uses the word “king”.

The original wording from the actual work actually reads as follows:

“... And the King of Beny sent to the King (of Portugal) as Ambassador a negro ...”

Reference: Ruy de Pina’s “Chronica”; Chap. xxiv., Discovery of Beny, quoted in H.L. Roth, 1903, pp. 4-5.

This may make one actually wonder why such an early and quite primary writing on Benin does not use the word “oba” for a Benin monarch. wink

Moreover, another part of the same comment reads:

“Given this characterization of the Benin culture, it might be understood that the Oba did not accept any colonial aspirations. As soon as the Oba began to suspect Britain of larger colonial designs, ...”.

These exact words as they appear here from his comment were also lifted off Wikipedia from where they are referenced (not even as a quotation) to a year 2010 work — a freaking year 2010 work by Neil MacGregor entitled “A History of the World in 100 Objects” grin

In all, our Benin entertainer has been disgraced not only as a disgruntled ignoramus, but also as a fraud. smiley

I am more than convinced at this point that, you and everyone else reading now know better to not take any of their bogus, baseless, grandiose claims seriously.

Notice that he has just made other fresh and independent baseless claims (on Yoruba history) in his foregoing comment as a distractive tactic.

I refuse to be distracted into another false and baseless Benin propaganda. I am also aware that everyone now knows better to not take his sorry ass seriously any more. grin

In sum:
(1) Our Benin entertainer has been debunked over his claim that Yoruba monarchs didn’t use “oba” in the pre-1900s.

(2)(i) Our Benin entertainer is yet to provide one pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Benin monarchs.

(2)(ii) Or to be more in line with his own specific claim, he has failed repeatedly to provide one “600 years” old written evidence of “oba” for Benin monarchs.

It is my pleasure to have disgraced him before all and sundry. Going forward, he must be reluctant to peddle lies. He has learnt the hard way. grin

Peace!

cc: RuggedSniper, DenreleDave, gomojam, macof, Juliusmalema
This an 1896 quotation refering to the king of benin as oba


Ruggedsniper
Etinosa1234
Toa111
AreaFada2
Sarah20A
Valirex
Ghostwon
Ghostwon
Afam4eva
Macof
Fregeneh
Alba3
Abagworo
Samuk

Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 4:26pm On Nov 19, 2020
DenreleDave:
Afam4eva gregyboy


Una Don buy market from TAO11..

She go kill una with real and live evidences...

grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

Welldone Tao, teach them
Lol,just watch how I will send her to oblivion’s
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 4:18pm On Nov 19, 2020
TAO11:
Lol grin Again, the embedded image below is one written example of the Yorubas’ use of “oba” prior to the 1900s. I have attached this earlier. grin

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12698032_7c86d5a72ede45b295849b10148646f2_jpeg_jpeg1ba0fb6e39bc4533e742b4508b7e4447
Reference: Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “Africa & Its Inhabitants”, Vol. II, Published 1899, p.265. smiley

Other examples of such pre-1900 Yoruba use of “oba” are found in the writings of S. Johnson completed 1897 from which I have already culled four examples in my foregoing comment. smiley

In other words, your boring lie that no Yoruba monarch used “oba” prior to the 1900s is already DEBUNKED and up in flames. grin
.
.
.
Having said that, you are yet to provide even one shred of example showing any pre-1900 Benin use of “oba” — let alone your wild and baseless specific claim of having such written evidence from “600” years ago. LMAO! grin
.
.
.
In sum: If you may have noticed @Afam4eva, our Benin entertainer could not provided even one shred of written evidence to demonstrate Benin’s use of “oba” even in the 1800s (which should exist actually) — let alone “600” years ago which was his actual specific baseless claim. Lol.

But despite my demolishing of his baseless claims, he somehow manages to remain deluded — pretending to be blind to the pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Yoruba monarchs.

Yet, he in contrast have continually failed to provide even one shred of any such pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Benin monarchs. Isn't this interesting? grin

My advice to you @Afam4eva like I have mentioned before is that you always request the evidence which should substantiate each of their many bogus claims.

Also, you may desist from engaging such deluded and disgruntled folks immediately you spot their delusions.

They will only attempt to insult your intelligence as we have seen here. But it is my pleasure to have exposed him to you.

Cheers!
Etinosa1234
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 4:18pm On Nov 19, 2020
TAO11:
Lol grin Again, the embedded image below is one written example of the Yorubas’ use of “oba” prior to the 1900s. I have attached this earlier. grin

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12698032_7c86d5a72ede45b295849b10148646f2_jpeg_jpeg1ba0fb6e39bc4533e742b4508b7e4447
Reference: Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “Africa & Its Inhabitants”, Vol. II, Published 1899, p.265. smiley

Other examples of such pre-1900 Yoruba use of “oba” are found in the writings of S. Johnson completed 1897 from which I have already culled four examples in my foregoing comment. smiley

In other words, your boring lie that no Yoruba monarch used “oba” prior to the 1900s is already DEBUNKED and up in flames. grin
.
.
.
Having said that, you are yet to provide even one shred of example showing any pre-1900 Benin use of “oba” — let alone your wild and baseless specific claim of having such written evidence from “600” years ago. LMAO! grin
.
.
.
In sum: If you may have noticed @Afam4eva, our Benin entertainer could not provided even one shred of written evidence to demonstrate Benin’s use of “oba” even in the 1800s (which should exist actually) — let alone “600” years ago which was his actual specific baseless claim. Lol.

But despite my demolishing of his baseless claims, he somehow manages to remain deluded — pretending to be blind to the pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Yoruba monarchs.

Yet, he in contrast have continually failed to provide even one shred of any such pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Benin monarchs. Isn't this interesting? grin

My advice to you @Afam4eva like I have mentioned before is that you always request the evidence which should substantiate each of their many bogus claims.

Also, you may desist from engaging such deluded and disgruntled folks immediately you spot their delusions.

They will only attempt to insult your intelligence as we have seen here. But it is my pleasure to have exposed him to you.

Cheers!
Etinosa1235
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 4:16pm On Nov 19, 2020
TAO11:
Lol grin Again, the embedded image below is one written example of the Yorubas’ use of “oba” prior to the 1900s. I have attached this earlier. grin

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12698032_7c86d5a72ede45b295849b10148646f2_jpeg_jpeg1ba0fb6e39bc4533e742b4508b7e4447
Reference: Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “Africa & Its Inhabitants”, Vol. II, Published 1899, p.265. smiley

Other examples of such pre-1900 Yoruba use of “oba” are found in the writings of S. Johnson completed 1897 from which I have already culled four examples in my foregoing comment. smiley

In other words, your boring lie that no Yoruba monarch used “oba” prior to the 1900s is already DEBUNKED and up in flames. grin



Etinosa1235
.
.
.
Having said that, you are yet to provide even one shred of example showing any pre-1900 Benin use of “oba” — let alone your wild and baseless specific claim of having such written evidence from “600” years ago. LMAO! grin
.
.
.
In sum: If you may have noticed @Afam4eva, our Benin entertainer could not provided even one shred of written evidence to demonstrate Benin’s use of “oba” even in the 1800s (which should exist actually) — let alone “600” years ago which was his actual specific baseless claim. Lol.

But despite my demolishing of his baseless claims, he somehow manages to remain deluded — pretending to be blind to the pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Yoruba monarchs.

Yet, he in contrast have continually failed to provide even one shred of any such pre-1900 written evidence of “oba” for Benin monarchs. Isn't this interesting? grin

My advice to you @Afam4eva like I have mentioned before is that you always request the evidence which should substantiate each of their many bogus claims.

Also, you may desist from engaging such deluded and disgruntled folks immediately you spot their delusions.

They will only attempt to insult your intelligence as we have seen here. But it is my pleasure to have exposed him to you.

Cheers!
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 4:07pm On Nov 19, 2020
TAO11:
LMAO! grin grin

First of all, your reply (despite a torturous search) fails to support your claim.

Rather than support your claim, you instead committed a logical fallacy — particularly “argumentum ex silentio”.

In other words, I can’t see it there, hence the Yorubas didn’t use it. Lol.

Turning the tables may help you see your logical fallacy even more clearly:

The traditional royal title of Benin kings, viz. “Omonoba” does not appear in that same listing you provided.

Does this then imply that this particular traditional Bini royal title was made up post 1938 — alluding to your own interesting logic? Lol. smiley

In sum, you have simply borne testament, so far, to your failure to substantiate your bogus claim that Yoruba rulers do not use “oba” until in the 1900s.

Having demonstrated the logical fallacy of your intended argument, the following quotations show some pre-1900 statements which feature the word ”oba” for Yoruba traditional rulers:

Quoting word-for-word from Reverend Samuel Johnson’s magnum opus, the following are a few (four) examples of such use among the Yorubas:

(i) ”Several points of similarity may be noted between the ALAFIN and his Basorun. The ALAFIN is Oba (a king), he is Iba (a lord)." ~ p.71.

(ii) "From this incident, King ABIPA was nick-named Oba M'oro (the King who caught ghosts)." ~ p.166.

(iii) "And this has passed into proverb, "Oku dede ki a ko iwi wo Akesan, Oba Jayin te ori gba aso". (At the approach to Akesan of a company of chanting Eguguns, King JAYIN buried his head in a shroud.) Used of one who anticipates the inevitable." ~ p.171.

(iv) "Oaths were no more taken in the name of the gods, who were now considered too lenient and indifferent; but rather in the name of the King [i.e. King AOLE himself] who was more dreaded. "Ida Oba ni yio je mi" (may the King's sword destroy me) was the new form of oath!" ~ p.188.

Reference: Samuel Johnson, "The History of the Yorubas", Completed 1897, Published 1921.

Moreover, the specific Yoruba obas; who are mentioned or alluded to in the above old Yoruba sayings shown in the foregoing quotations from the 1897-completed work of S. Johnson; are dated by historians to have ruled in the 1500s, the 1600s, and the 1700s respectively.

Furthermore, the attachment below shows a page from an 1899-published work — driving home the very same point I’m making here.

Reference: Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “Africa and Its Inhabitants", Vol. II, Published 1899, p.265, and which is largely a translation of the French original published in 1873.

While all the foregoing instantly debunks his claim of post-1900 Yoruba use, our Bini entertainer will yet not dare provide even a shred of evidence to substantiate even a mere 121 years old Benin use of “oba” grin — let alone dare substantiate his own baseless/wild claim of 600 years old written account of Benin’s use of “oba”. grin Isn’t God wonderful!? cheesy
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Now to put all these into a clearer perspective for you @Afam4eva:

Each and every Yoruba kingdom actually use two distinct nouns in reference to its monarch:

(1) A common noun (“oba”) rendered in English as ”king” — lit. the “overlord”.

(2) A proper noun which generally varies from one Yoruba kingdom to another. E.g. “Ooni” for the Ife Kingdom; ”Alaafin” for the Oyo kingdom; etc.

D. M. Bondarenko makes this precise point about the two nouns when he wrote that:

““Ooni is Oba of Ife” or “the Oba of Oyo is Alaafin””

Reference: Dmitri M. Bondarenko, “Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point”, History in Africa, 2003, Vol. 30 (2003), pp. 71.
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This same culture of using two distinct nouns (a common noun and a proper noun) for the king is also found among the Binis as well as among the Itsekiris.

Among the Binis for example, the proper noun and traditional royal title is “Omonoba”; while ”oba” is the common noun, viz. “king” — Both are in use till date in Benin culture.

Among the Itsekiris in comparison to the above, the two nouns are “Olu” (similarly rendered in English as “king” — lit. the “premier” ) and ”ogiame”. Also, both are in use till date for the king among the Itsekiris.

The king’s designation in these cultures may therefore sometimes appear in full, thus showing both nouns, as follows:

Ooni Ife, Oba Adeyeye; or Omonoba N’Edo, Oba Ewuare; or Olu Iwere, Ogiame Ikenwoli; etc. (or some variation of this standard practice).

But sometimes, the designation may also appear in part as is seen in the listing which he himself has provided.

The listing does not feature the Yoruba kings’ use of ”oba”, just as the same listing does not feature the Bini king’s use of the royal title “Omonoba“ — which generally appears in his designation in addition to the word “oba” as already shown above.

Should we then conclude — in line with his fallacious logic — that the Bini royal title “Omonoba” was a post-1938 invention? Laughable, isn’t it? grin
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Anyways, I would love to see if someday he will manage to yield to the earlier request which I will make again below:

(a) Can you show me (or cite me) an expert evidence which supports your claim that “no Yoruba traditional ruler used the title until the 1900s”?

(b) Can you show me (or cite me) a “600” year old written record of the use of the word “Oba” for a Benin monarch — since you claimed there are such old written records?


Cheers!

PS: @Afam4eva, notice the subtle attempt at derailing the discussion into an issue of colonial salaries, even though it is basic knowledge that the salaries must have been proportional to the average periodic revenue generated from the respective areas.

cc: RuggedSniper, macof, LegendHero, MetaPhysical, BabaRamota1980
You see yourself,


The world oba entered the Yoruba lingual Franca
Through the Eastern Yoruba Benin made extensive contact with,

Please shune the misconception Of the Benin -ife relationship


Even the ondo people have a parable that goes like this

Just the way the oba of Benin commands respect on earth same way olodimare commands respect in heavens


The eastern yorubas shared many culture with Benin’s in terms of titles,foods,words


So the word oba found is way into all Yoruba through Easter Yoruba


And the yorubas began accepting as a general title for their king after 1930 to boost their self esteem
Culture › Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 3:50pm On Nov 19, 2020
TAO11:
I’d like to pass a quick comment regarding one of the above comments on the word “Oba” as quoted below:



This comment is typical of disgruntled Bini Nairalanders as you may have noticed before.

A quick way of accessing the falsehood (or otherwise) of such statements in bold (which in their present form are no more than mere words put together by a random Nairalander) is to simply do the following:

Ask for the expert sources for each of the bogus claims they’ve made. For example: since they have the burden of proof having made those claims, then put the following request to them:

(a) Can you show me (or cite me) an expert evidence which supports your claim that ”no Yoruba traditional ruler used the Oba title until the 1900s”?

(b) Can you show me (or cite me) a “600” year old written record of the use of the word “Oba” for a Benin monarch — since you claimed there are such old written records?
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You will receive one or more of the following as their reply to such requests:

(1) Silence, or (2) Cunning distractions (or shyness away) from the actual request, or (3) Excuses as to why they won’t provide the evidence, or (4) Insults.

Watch out particularly for (2) and (3). Peace! smiley

cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980
You don start again with your lies


The word oba has been used by the European since 1400 ad to address the Benin monarchy


And yorubas started using it to address their king after 1930


You just came out of oblivion and your first comment came with tears and lies
Politics › Re: RevolutionNow Has already Started in Edo. by gregyboy(m): 3:35am On Oct 20, 2020
yoruba1914:
Mumu op. Who still leaves with his parents is advocating for war.
Make sowore no deceive u o. He has 2 passports o.
2023 don come start from voting out your state reps to get the change you want.
You again you're not a Yoruba man no Yoruba man can be foolish as you're all yorubas i know are bold and intelligent


You must be an aboki
. Government dogs
Politics › Re: #endsars: Be At Alert, See What Will Happen In Two Days' Time by gregyboy(m): 3:16am On Oct 20, 2020
StaffofOrayan:
Is it that all you people didn't know how to create all these threads when the country was going down the drain?
The thing tire me oo


Things will never remain the same after this protest


Dem government dogs like the op
Politics › Re: #endsars: Be At Alert, See What Will Happen In Two Days' Time by gregyboy(m): 3:15am On Oct 20, 2020
10mobile:
This #EndSARS protest is beginning to spiral out of control. Joblessness is the main thing fueling it now. It's only those who don't have jobs that are still forceful about it. In other words, criminal elements are beginning to hijack it. The law-abiding citizens are beginning to think about their businesses/jobs.

You all heard how some people broke into a correctional facility in Edo State and freed prisoners. Soon, the criminal elements (who would be more than happy to see everywhere up in flames) would start breaking into shops and homes to steal and kill or to rob on the streets, using the lacuna left by police absence. Some ex-SARS operatives (who must be lacking money now that they're disbanded) will regroup and begin to rob. THEN, THE GOVERNMENT WILL SEE REASONS TO USE FORCE ON THE PROTESTERS AND WILL BE JUSTIFIED BY THE WORLD. This way, the youths would have lost all the gains of the protest.

WHAT TO DO?
I suggest that YOU back out of the protest for now. The Nigerian youths have made their presence felt and their voices heard. A wise performer leaves the stage when the ovation is high. Let's not allow bad eggs to spoil our achievements so that we can successfully build on this in subsequent months and years. Let's not give the Devil (that is, FG) a foothold against us (cf. Eph. 4:27).
Paid government ass lickers
Politics › Re: Operation Crocodile Smiles Lands In Edo And Abuja, Calmness Returns by gregyboy(m): 3:13am On Oct 20, 2020
Hmm


We nor go gree o

We nor go gree
Crime › Re: EndSARS: Man Wears DPO Uniform In Edo by gregyboy(m): 3:11am On Oct 20, 2020
Edo n' oba ye
Crime › Re: Hoodlums Burn Police Station In Edo State (Video) by gregyboy(m): 3:08am On Oct 20, 2020
AreaFada2:
So you guys think this is still just about Endsars? shocked shocked

It's now about all the brutality, injustices, corruption and lopsided polity of Nigeria. As far as many are concerned it's revolution now. While some of you guys might still be comfortable with Nigeria as it is, For many Nigeria has no meaning anymore, it's a dead entity kept alive on oil money ventilator.

Benin has always been at the forefront of resistance. Whether against British, Action Group, military, Ali Must Go or other forms of impunity.

Precisely UNIBEN is always there in recent decades alongside Unilag in the fiercest protests against bad governance,
People from other state are too slow edo don move comot fron endsars them still dey one place
Politics › Re: Seun Osewa Air His Opinion On The Endsars Ongoing Protest. by gregyboy(m): 1:58am On Oct 20, 2020
Miracle2020:
the same youths that are crying about corruption, are the ones defending the corrupt politicians when ever EFCC make an arrest. I could remember how some youth were defending METU, I will not forget the way some youth celebrated when Jonah David Jang was released on bail for corrupt charges in Jos. Infact two of the youths lost their lives because of celebration.
Of recent, when FBI indicted Onyeama I know how youths defended him on social media even Uzor kalu was also defended by the same youths. With these attitudes of the youths, how do you expect the government to fight corruption?
Let me also remind you of what happened in Akwa ibom , when the governor gave 4million to protesters they rejected the money but their so called leader went back and collected the money. How do you think corruption fight will achieve it goals with these kind youths?
Bro deep down those youth me and you know the defense for them is clouded and not a true reflection of what they are supporting

Thesame youth are the ones protesting they want them out, that is the true reflection of their feelings they were once misguided because of hunger for benefit

Have you reed the American Civil war, you will see such defending of the corrupt by the people is not new not does it deter their true intent for the corrupt wen dey have d chance
Politics › Re: Seun Osewa Air His Opinion On The Endsars Ongoing Protest. by gregyboy(m): 1:06am On Oct 20, 2020
ILoveDemMANNA:
mynd44
What did i do

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