₦airaland Forum

scholes0:
Benin people call the king's wife Olori

Another borrowing from Ife and Yoruba language,

JohnSin97:
Yep, Proud Ibadan Yoruba coward whose region still has more influence in the scheme of things, the fulani own your oil wells and give us our 10% insignificant Bini monkey jerking himself off to past glory. We saw how you guys were brave during the asaba massacre how yoruba troops used them for target practice, You're monkeys and your women wh0re around the streets of Italy and your men turn Edo state to a cultist coven, test our cowardance and we will mine your skulls, selling it on the streets of ibadan. Hahaha you may try to revise history to suit your narratives, but we own the future. other tribes are talking and bini's feel they have a say...lol

TAO11:
Thank you for refuting him. His mission is to spread lies all over Nairaland.

You can read more at my comment found here for details on this specific subject.

https://www.nairaland.com/6013716/why-does-ooni-ife-make#93935979

TAO11:
Part 1: One of the lines in Benin Kings’ praise poetry goes as follows:

Ovbi’ Ada, Ovbi’ Eben — meaning: the son of the owner of the Ada and Eben.

Inherent within this praise poetry is the fact that Benin kings do not claim to be the owners of these symbols, but rather the son of the owner.

Furthermore, another line in the praise poetry of the Benin kings goes as follows:

[s]Abieyuwa n’Ovbi’ Oodua n’Uhe — the son of the wealthy Oodua of Ife.[/s]

From these two lines alone found within this Benin Kings’ praise poetry, it becomes obvious who the owners of the symbols are.

By the way, the use of ceremonial swords as part of the official emblems of office in Yoruba kingdoms are very wide spread throughout Yorubaland.

I can recall off the top of my head certain remote Yoruba kingdoms that have absolutely nothing to do with Benin historical where these symbols are part of the emblems by virtue of their Ife origin.

But a prime example is the Oyo kingdom where the original sword of office (called Ida Oranmiyan) must be returned to Ife for reconsecration as part of the rites for an incoming Alaafin. The same applies to the Omo n’Oba as someone as rightly pointed out here.

Part 2: Bini traditions admit that these symbols were introduced to ‘Benin’ during the reign of the second Ogiso — Ogiso Ere.

But most folks aren’t patient enough to care about what the same traditional Benin accounts have to say about the historical identity of the early Ogisos.

In relation to this, the world’s leading historian of ancient Benin, Dmitri M. Bondarenko informs based on received extant Benin traditions as follows:

“The third Ogiso became the last in their Yoruba, Ife line. He returned to Ife but by that time the very institution of the supreme suprachiefdom ruler had already been established firmly enough in Benin, disregarding its outside origin and correspondence to the level of sociopolitical organization, not achieved by the Bini yet.” ~ Dmitri M. Bondarenko, “The Benin Kingdom (13 – 19 Centuries)as a Megacommunity”, September 2015, p.54.

In other words, the earliest three Ogisos — according to extant ‘Benin’ accounts — were actually emissaries of the Ife rulers from the Yoruba country on a mission to introduce monarchy to ‘Benin’ just as they were doing in the Yoruba country and in some other parts of the Guinea forest in general.

Cheers!

JohnSin97:
So for example the current crowns of urhobo kings that looks like that of the British crown means that the British originated from urhobos right..... You're a drunken proverty cursed denigrate. Eshan isn't urhobos btw.

davidmarker:
The first ooni of ife to adopt the "oba" title in the format of his name was adesoji aderemi. All the other yoruba chiefs copied him.
@areafada2 @samuk @gregyboy @valirex

JohnSin97:
My mum is Eshan, my grandma is bini from Edo, which makes me part Edo, I understand the history.....and all your claims are BS.. stop spreading falsehood

LegendHero:
Lol. You still have mouth to talk after all those things TAO said.

What are you really after? Knowledge or ego massaging?

If it’s knowledge, you should give up at this stage on the context of Oba and the source of the word between Yoruba and Benin.

But if it’s just for ego, then you can continue.

TAO11:
It’s not gregy.

It’s a certain guy by the moniker @davidmarker.

The following are some his other moniker which I have forced him to delete in the past:

Prolog, Ghostwon, Wtf, Logycs, Worldhistory, Bandit, amongst may others.

Here is his modus operandi: https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/17#96530093

So you can notice him whenever he deletes his latest moniker and appears with a news one.
——————-

As for @gregyboy, he is one and the same person as @Edeyoung.

I confirmed this 100%. It’s tested. He likes to deny it with his last breath though.

You may notice him start quoting himself and replying just to pretend he isn’t.

JohnSin97:
My mum is Eshan, my grandma is bini from Edo, which makes me part Edo, I understand the history.....and all your claims are BS.. stop spreading falsehood

AreaFada2:
You might as well go and argue with the lots at "Uselu in". Despite their pathology, they will reason reason better than the repetitive cross dresser masquerading as a historian.

babtoundey:
You cannot tell the meaning and origin of the title of your king yet you are here dragging "owa". Why are you like this?

I see your memory tells you Yoruba got the name oba while trading with Benin yet you don't have a simple reasonable fact to back it up. We ask for prove not for tales. Give us prove. Tells us the meaning of Oba in edo lexicon.

You have been thoroughly shamed that you don't know what to say.

LegendHero:
Lol. You still have mouth to talk after all those things TAO said.

What are you really after? Knowledge or ego massaging?

If it’s knowledge, you should give up at this stage on the context of Oba and the source of the word between Yoruba and Benin.

But if it’s just for ego, then you can continue.

gomojam:
Gregyboy give it a break pls. Your absurdities and illogicalities give u out under the veil of every monikers you keep creating just to propagate mumuism.

Go sleep one place abeg. You be confirm olodo.

JohnSin97:
It's clear that there's a campaign of falsehood and aims to twist Yoruba history to suit certain individuals narratives.... because how will someone who claims to be culturally superior come to a thread and start spamming it with lies and falsehood.... Who the fvck is the stupid motherfvckin bare chested oba of benin with a stupid clay earthed empire that's less than two states.... Togolise, people from Benin republic, Brazilians and cubians all come to pay respect to the Onni of Ife, who the fvck are the bini's compared to the 200million strong Yoruba's both indeginous and diaspora, what's even the Bini language compared to the Yoruba language which is about to go official in Brazil and is a lingua franca on the streets of peckham, and second language of music in Africa... Even my mum who is Eshan from Edo state knows the history of the bini's and their origins and who laugh at the falsehood being spread on this site.... Either you're hiding behind a monika claiming to be Bini or you're actually Bini...one thing is clear, you cannot and will not be successful in twisting history to suit your narratives....... I advice the idiots doing this to channel their energy into teaching their kids their mother language as alot of bini's can't even speak their mother language but are even more fluent in speaking Yoruba, even more than some Yoruba borns.... The bini's are a great people who built an empire, and should not fall for the pull down him down mentality of the flathe@ds to the east. It will only end in bitterness and tears like it always does.

gomojam:
clown

TAO11:
Fraud Alert!!

A renowned insecure Bini chronic liar (who is also known by the nickname TAO’s rag) has been peddling a certain type of misinformation:

He has been falsely alleging that the Benin-styled early Ife terra-cotta head shown below (which is another example of the Ife-Benin Connection) was produced in the 20th century, very recently.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12756545_e30c714a5d034dfe872d685e9368873f_jpeg_jpeg5542a53557827a98b4f89d4849144f1c

As expected, this is another Benin lie from the pit of hell. Yes, I know you all already know it’s a lie because it’s coming from a Bini. I only thought I should pin-point why it’s a lie.


The date range seen in the image are as shown in the digital collection of the Smithsonian Institute. This date range does not say anything about when the terracotta was manufactured.

Rather, this date range here refers to the range of years within which all the images were entered into the institutions collections.

The same date range is also shown in the institutions collection even for other more popular and ancient Ife bronze artifacts such as those embedded below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12756546_8d00d167c71444278247eb54f474bbce_jpeg_jpeg21ff25172d0ed120b23f88b7b1c6ea04

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12756547_60e643ab4d76461086e0a3e20153a222_jpeg_jpeg6bc7d15a638a20e1f397788f60e077fe

Cheers:

cc: TheLionofLasigi

TAO12:
This one is already afraid as usual. Yes, I am doing the advert on purpose. To terrify liars.

The 400 years old you’ve be tapping only proved one thing — that the Benin king was subject to another the king — the Ooni of Ife.

Ife-Benin relationship (showing Benin as subject) has been demonstrated incontrovertibly even on this thread.

No amount of sorrowful rant can wish that away. Deal with the real world.

gomojam:
Come u be logic and reasoning professor?

This one too much for my Benin people fa.

TAO11:
So far in the course of this thread, the following retar.ded claims have been devastatingly debunked:

(1) The retar.ded claim (by disgruntled Binis) that Yorubas began using the word “Oba” in the post-1930s.

This has been debunked with written evidence of Yoruba usage from 1899, from 1897, from c.1867, from 1845, et al.

(2) The retar.ded claim (by @samuk) that there exists some “600 years” old written evidence of Benin usage of the word “Oba”.

This retar.ded claim is yet to be substantiated (even with an atom of evidence) despite more than 10 days (and still counting) of their torturous search.

Instead, these disgruntled Binis were at best only able to demonstrate (from their own warped logic) that the Yorubas have an earlier written evidence — 1845 (Yoruba) Vs. 1867 (Bini).

——————————————————
But what does it really mean that I was able to produce an 1845 written evidence and the Binis weren’t able to come even close to that ??

Well, it just simply means that the Binis weren’t able to come close to the Yorubas, despite their own bogus claim of wRiTteN eViDeNcE. Nothing more, nothing less! [I know I’m being too nice now].

To put the same question in other words:
Does the comparative written evidence already provided really mean that the Binis began using this word only in the year 1867 — because that’s all they could provide ??

Funny enough, this line of warped reasoning is what the disgruntled Binis have been trailing. Should I play their game along with them? No, I’m Yoruba!

To every sound and logically mind, such conclusion (based on available writing) is too obvious as a flawed reasoning and logical fallacy — even though I could have forced their own flawed reasoning down their throats.

Such particular logical fallacy is know in analytical logic specifically by the name: argumentum ex silentio.

————————————————————
Having debunked their deluded claim of 1930s [see (1)]; having exposed @samuk’s fraud of “600 years” old writing [see (2)]; having exposed their inability to produce anything close to (let alone earlier than) the Yorubas’ [see (2)]; having debunked their warped logic of arguing from earlier written usage (despite the fact that it favours me); I now turn, at this point, to discussing the actual objective evidence for determining the indigenous ownership of a word — that is, the linguistic evidence.

——————————————————————
The Argument:
(I) If a word is in use in a particular language, but its literal meaning can not be meaningfully analyzed within that language; then such word does not originally belong to that language. Gbam!

(II) The word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not have any literal meaning in the language of the Binis.

(III) In conclusion, the word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not belong originally to the Bini language — In other words, it is a loanword.

————————————————————
The Evidence:
An objective source of evidence for the meanings of Bini words is obviously and undoubtedly an authoritative dictionary of the Bini language itself.

[This is not to be confused with a dictionary of the English language which simply features a paltry number of non-English words of widespread, global, popular usage — such as: “fufu”, “agbada”, “oba”, et al.]

As such, recourse will now be made to a Bini-English Lexicon. This is so that the English readers here can access the written meanings which are attributed to the actual Bini words.

One such example of an authoritative material for this purpose is the work entitled: “A Concise Dictionary of The Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” compiled by the professor of African Phonetics and Linguistics, Hans Melzian.

———————————————————
Under the entry “Ọba” (for which Professor Melzian used “ɔ” to represent “ọ“, in order to distinguish /o/ as in odd from /o/ as in old ); the following are some interesting observations from this Bini dictionary.

(A) Unlike what the author did with virtually all other Bini words within the same dictionary, he did not give a literal meaning to this word — as I have expected.

Rather, he simply describes the person whom the Binis refer to by this word. Interesting, isn’t it?! See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754901_bb7fcaad09fc479498aedbb24cb57370_jpeg_jpeg80dbd02cb7ce1db81e998db7e161c38e

(B) But more than that, the author (in fact) let the cat out of the bag. He revealed why this word could not have had a literal meaning in a dictionary of Bini language.

Before I reveal his reason, it is important that one is acquainted with a few notations and abbreviations which he define in his work.

Two examples of these are relevant to my discourse here, and they are: “Yor.” and “cf.” which he defines as: “Yoruba” and “etymological reference” respectively.

See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754902_541f22648c37485488282bea682c0e27_jpeg_jpegf272ec9b7e8de333789df15c524980aa

In the light of this background, let’s then see what reason the author indicates as to why this word could have appeared without a literal meaning in the Bini dictionary.

See embedded image below as highlighted on the top-right corner in continuation of the bottom-left corner.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754903_7e31a3d03b7c407ab60e863fbf8fb4c2_jpeg_jpegfba5de93eebde69a9ef00beabf7a605c

In the light of his foregoing definition of abbreviations, what we have here in the phrase “cf. Yor. ɔba” then becomes extremely clear and straightforward.

In other words, the word “Ọba” [ɔba] (used by the Binis for their monarch) has its ”etymology” [cf.] (aka. ”origin”) in the Yoruba language [Yor.].

Quod Erat Demostrandum!

gomojam:
You no dey shame at all. Chai!

babtoundey:
Then prove it. Yorubas have given you a hundred and one meanings of Oba (all pointing to the same meaning), they have given you ancient names, that have "Oba" attached and names of traditional rulers, titles and positions that are prefixed with "Oba", they have given you names of traditional positions that derive their meaning and essence from the word "Oba" they have provided standing proofs that Benin stole the name from them. You could tell us what "Oba" means in your language let alone substantiating your odious claim "oba" is truly yours.
Must we be forced to ignore sense and reasoning and embrace your "it is what it is" stance because you are Gregboy, the mouthpiece of the entire Benin empire and the confused originator of "shinny seki" and it's red". We know you're confused. Just make us believe you're not confuse as you truly are. prove Tao wrong at least for once.
obaluaye
obalufon
obatala
obataasa
obalogun All these names and titles are as old as Yoruba itself. Your lies are not marketable. repackage them.

TheLionofLasigi:
God will bless you for the work you're doing, these people take pleasure in twisting facts and coming under different monikas to sow discord and falsehood between the Yoruba's and it's Edo cousins.
God bless you.

babtoundey:
Then prove it. Yorubas have given you a hundred and one meanings of Oba (all pointing to the same meaning), they have given you ancient names, that have "Oba" attached and names of traditional rulers, titles and positions that are prefixed with "Oba", they have given you names of traditional positions that derive their meaning and essence from the word "Oba" they have provided standing proofs that Benin stole the name from them. You could tell us what "Oba" means in your language let alone substantiating your odious claim "oba" is truly yours.
Must we be forced to ignore sense and reasoning and embrace your "it is what it is" stance because you are Gregboy, the mouthpiece of the entire Benin empire and the confused originator of "shinny seki" and it's red". We know you're confused. Just make us believe you're not confuse as you truly are. prove Tao wrong at least for once.
obaluaye
obalufon
obatala
obataasa
obalogun All these names and titles are as old as Yoruba itself. Your lies are not marketable. repackage them.

TAO11:
So far in the course of this thread, the following retar.ded claims have been devastatingly debunked:

(1) The retar.ded claim (by disgruntled Binis) that Yorubas began using the word “Oba” in the post-1930s.

This has been debunked with written evidence of Yoruba usage from 1899, from 1897, from c.1867, from 1845, et al.

(2) The retar.ded claim (by @samuk) that there exists some “600 years” old written evidence of Benin usage of the word “Oba”.

This retar.ded claim is yet to be substantiated (even with an atom of evidence) despite more than 10 days (and still counting) of their torturous search.

Instead, the disgruntled Binis were at best only able to demonstrate (even from their own warped logic) that the Yorubas have an earlier written evidence — 1845 (Yoruba) Vs. 1867 (Bini).

——————————————————
But what does it really mean that I was able to produce an 1845 written evidence and the Binis weren’t able to come even close to that ??

Well, it just simply and objectively means that the Binis weren’t able to come close to the Yorubas, despite their own bogus claim of wRiTteN eViDeNcE.

In other words:
Does the comparative written evidence already provided really imply and mean that the Binis began using this word only in the year 1867 — because that’s all they could provide ??

Although, this line of warped reasoning is what the disgruntled Binis have been trailing funnily; that obviously is a flawed logical fallacy — even though I could have forced their own flawed reasoning down their throats.

————————————————————
Having debunked their deluded claim of 1930s [see (1)]; having exposed @samuk’s fraud of “600 years” old writing [see (2)]; having exposed their inability to produce anything close to (let alone earlier than) the Yorubas’ [see (2)]; having debunked the fallacy of arguing from earlier written usage (despite the fact that it favours me) as a supposed evidence of indigenous ownership; now I will be discussing the actual objective evidence for indigenous ownership — which is, the linguistic evidence.

——————————————————————
The Argument:
(I) If a word is used locally in a particular language, and its literal meaning can not be meaningfully analyzed in that particular language; then such word does not originally belong to that language. Gbam!

(II) The word “Oba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not have any literal meaning in the language of the Binis.

(III) In conclusion, the word “Oba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not belong originally to the Bini language — In other words it is a loanword from another language.

————————————————————
The Evidence:
An objective source of evidence for the meaning of Bini words is undoubtedly the Bini dictionary itself.

[This is not to be confused with an English dictionary which simply features a paltry number of non-English words of popular or global usage — such as: “fufu”, “agbada”, “oba”, et al.]

As such, recourse will now be made to a Bini-English Lexicon. This is so that the English readers here can access the written meanings which are attributed to the Bini words.

One such example of an authoritative material for this purpose is the work entitled: “A Concise Dictionary of The Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” compiled by the professor of African Phonetics and Linguistics, Hans Melzian.

———————————————————
Under the entry “Oba” (for Professor Melzian used “ɔ” for “o”, so as to distinguish between the “o” as in odd from the “o” as in old ); the following are some interesting observations from this Bini dictionary.

(A) Unlike what the author did with other Bini words, he did not give a literal meaning to this word (as I expected); rather he simply describes the person whom the Binis refer to by this word. Interesting, isn’t it?! See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754901_bb7fcaad09fc479498aedbb24cb57370_jpeg_jpeg80dbd02cb7ce1db81e998db7e161c38e

(B) But more than the foregoing, the author in fact let the cat out of the bag. He revealed why this word could not have a literal meaning in a Bini language dictionary.

Before I reveal where and how he revealed this, it is important that one is acquainted with a few notations and abbreviations he used in his work, and what he defined them to mean for the purpose of his work.

Two examples of these are relevant to my discourse here, and they are: “Yor.” and “cf.” which he defines to mean: “Yoruba” and “etymological reference” respectively. See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754902_541f22648c37485488282bea682c0e27_jpeg_jpegf272ec9b7e8de333789df15c524980aa

In the light of this background, let’s then see what more information the author reveals — which would, as noted above, indicate why this word appears without a literal meaning in the Bini dictionary.

See embedded image below as highlighted on the top-right corner as a continuation to the bottom-left corner.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754903_7e31a3d03b7c407ab60e863fbf8fb4c2_jpeg_jpegfba5de93eebde69a9ef00beabf7a605c

In the light of the foregoing notations/abbreviations (which he has defined), what we have here in the phrase “cf. Yor. ɔba” thus become extremely clear and unambiguous.

In other words, the word “Oba” (which is found in the Benin lexicon for the monarch) has its etymology (aka origin) in the language of the Yorubas.

QED.

cc: Afam4eva, macof, gomojam, RedboneSmith, Juliusmalema, shnaga

samuk:
The truth is many early Benin historical records were not written in English. Most of the Vatican's records are in Latin, there are still records in Portuguese, Dutch, French and other European languages that I couldn't find the English translations. The 1863 record was done by an English man, so it was easier to find.

macof:
LOL. [s]There are texts from both "Mohammedans" and Europeans refering to Yoruba Kings with their title[/s].
But you see this logic of yours gregyboy, that states a thing is non existent if Europeans didn't write it shows how dull you are and this is the logic I will use to floor you from now on

So far as consistency with your logic goes, your oba is nothing but a new dynasty not up to 200 years, borrowed from the Yoruba