₦airaland Forum

This Udezue has a lot of fire in his belly.

If he had noticed, I had largely ignored him on this thread cos I knew of his penchant for hotheadedness.

I don't like arguing with people who blow gasket anytime someone offends their tribal sensitivity.

So far on this thread, people have called Ijaws slaves, lazy drunks, canoe people, interlopers etc but every reaction of mine is measured. I wonder if Udezue is one of those internet thugs. 

Nna, lack of comprehension dey worry you.

Hausa are a conquered people. Fulani rule them.

Do Hausas do reconciliation panel? They are planning their revenge pogrom, these gullible Berom are concerning themselves with reconciliation panel. They better strap-up instead of worrying about mending bridges.

It is an asinine comment to state that Ijaws need to 'revive the Igbo' in them and get back to hard work. Is hard work the preserve of the Igbo? When Ijaw city-states were flourishing during the palm oil trade, were they not working hard then? When they ride their canoes and go fishing in hard terrain, is it easy work? When they paddle for 5 hours just to find an island to settle, is it a piece of cake? To suggest that hardwork is a genetic trait is wholly misleading.

It is NEVER about property. FYI, Ijaws own property too, even in Ikwerre lands.

It is about forests, rivers, streams, natural environment which Ndigbo are trying to claim with all sorts of fables!

You think I am waiting for derivation from oil-field from home? And OW11 nko? And Ijaw-girl nko?

The fishermen whose livelihoods have been destroyed are the ones who deserve education, proper infrastructure etc so that their children can find alternative occupations, not a city slicker like me.

There is no civilised country where indigenous rights are not respected. We demand the same, but Biafrans keep acting like Barbarians - "Nna, let us use your resources, shebi we are brothers?" Hell No!

You will pay just like Scotland get paid for North Sea Oil, like Texas and Louisiana, like Panama and Egypt.

If we fight Nigeria over it, we will not accept the same from Biafra.

naijaking1:
Here you're. Laying claim and counting your eggs before they're hatched. Gaullible.

Gullible you mean.


Why do you guys try to act like agberos? You were being reasonable until I laid out the koko for you.

Ijaws are neither dispensible nor indispensible. It is what you want it to be. This is the mistake Ojukwu made. Why not come to a reasonable agreement under internationally accepted standards like any normal country would?

If you refuse to recognise indigenous rights, what makes you different from our current oppressors Nigeria?

Ijaws tamed this harsh terrain when no other tribe would go near it and we will be damned if we give up its fruits to anyone else to our detriment. All we have always asked for is fair treatment whether from Naija or Biafra. Is that not why MEND started shooting?

Of course, I do not need to mention that ownership of waterfronts entitles you to revenues from off-shore oil.

The situation is at an impasse. Thats why OW11 judged the situation correctly when he said that whilst brotherhood is a desirable outcome, Ijaws are better off fighting to forge their own destiny.

Its not about denying access. Its about people stealing your land.

No need to behave like Agbero. Every port collects taxes, whether in Egypt or Panama.

Under international law, nothing is free my friend.

Why should you make an assumption that anyone is trying to deny you anything? You are beginning to think like an Agbero. Shipping is a good, just like cocoyam and palm oil. Some countries like Panama depend almost solely on it - and America does not accuse them of 'trying to deny access'. An Ijaw man will no more allow you to take a revenue generating stream like shipping from him than he would allow you to take his oil for free. Even Germany charges small Luxembourg shipping duties, much less Ijaw and Igbo.

If you prefer, you can go to Calabar or Lagos for your shipping needs. No need to get mad. Its simple capitalism.

By the way, you know that none of your 'rivers' can support any Cargo ship, and even so they will have to pay toll duties travelling up Ijaw Rivers to get there.


I hope this discourse will provide you with reasons why knowledgeable Igbos like Dede1 see the need to make claims on PH, Opobo and Bonny, however spurious. Dede1 is a true patriot. Unfortunately his type of patriotism will forever drive a wedge between Ijaw and Igbo.

Naijaking1,

Change of ownership is not by force or by making spurious claims of ownership.

This issue is a very real issue as Waterfronts are being bulldozed by Amaechi presently and Ijaw leaders are in a fit of pique about it.

The mindset is with a view to the future. Should Biafra and Ijawland become two seperate Kindgoms tomorrow, who gets access to the shipping? If Ijaw chooses to go with Biafra under a confederate system, do the Okrika indigenes receive levies from the Biafran Government for the use of the docks or will Biafra trample upon their rights by claiming they have no indigenous claim to the port? Or - if Ndigbo is intent on claiming ownership of the docks, does that mean they have a mindset of creating their own nation without the Ijaw - leading to further territorial conflict between both nations in other parts of Rivers and Delta states?

This is the crux of the issue! - And the biggest stumbling block in Ijaw-Igbo relations.


@ Ijaw-girl,

Please ask Dede1 to give you a discourse on monkey village, or at least talk about some of the elephants or hippopotamuses he has seen in Opobo or Bonny Island. Also, he can enlighten us as to why we celebrate Pioru and Piriangala and not New Yam festival. 

Dede1:
Opu Obu Ama (later bastardized as Opobo) is combination of Igbo words meaning a secret door of the house to the outside.

Secret door of the house to outside my nyash!

Dede1:
@Ibi

It is unfortunate that you do not know iota of issue in discourse. Well Opu Obu Ama is not a person but community founded by Jubo Jubogha, Obomanu, Peterside and Cookey.

In Ijaw land, when you name a town after a person, you usually suffix it with Ama.

For example, if I start a town, I would name it Ibime-Ama ie Ibime Town.

I am from George-Ama, meaning the towns founder was my ancestor Mr George. On my grandmothers side, I am also from Ogan-Ama meaning the towns founder was Mr Ogan.

Every Ijaw town named after a person is suffixed with Ama.

Therefore Opubo is a person and Opubo Ama is named after him.

Infact, he is one of the greatest Amanyanabos in Ibani history, and Jaja named the town after Opubo rather than himself to show the people that he respects their culture as he was wary of causing strife by naming a town after a man of 'servile birth' like himself. Jaja was a very wise man.

It is important to read up on the history of these places before trying to claim them.

[quote author=ijaw_girl link=topic=239065.msg3530268#msg3530268 date=1235931985]Ibime, Is creek road/area for Okrikas or Kalabaris?[/quote]It doesn't matter, they are all Ijaws.

afam4eva:
If there's any ethnic group that have laid claim to land that is not theirs, then it's the Ijaws, Most places they claim as theirs in present day Port-Hacourt where originally owned by Ikwerres who gave the river banks to them,since the only place they called home was the river, only for them to claim to most of the land.

This is claptrap. Were the Okrikas living under the water?

Guys, lets not get things confused. No one cares about PH City. PH City is a dilapidated slum which deserves to be bulldozed and rebuilt from scratch.

The main crux of Igbos argument as to the origins of PH have more to do with PH docks than the city itself. Access to shipping is essential for any nation or tribe etc.

An Ijaw man will never fight the Igbo over land, but he will go to war over access to the water.

It is documented that the Amanayanabo of Okrika sold Borokiri to the British so that they could build a port in 1912.

Dede1 and others claim that by Igwe Ocha, they mean PH docks as it means "blue sky" - referring to the water. Igwe Ocha was never a name for Port-Harcourt, rather a subversive name for PH docks. i.e they own the docks.

We also know upland PH was a forest, interspersed with Ikwerre lands. We have never tried to claim Ikwerre lands (except for a little tiffle over Trans-Amadi area). The question is who owns the riverine areas, particularly the docks?

Reasonable Igbos like Naijaking, Abagworo etc concede that Town and Borokiri is traditional Ijaw land.

Infact, the Ikwerre villages are intact as they were found by the British. Ikwerre/Rebisi land goes no further South than Diobu. There is not a single Ikwerre community in Town or Borokiri.

Afam4eva just brought it up by claiming "Ikwerres let the Ijaws settle on the waterfronts". This leads to a wider claim regarding access to the sea.

We know that the Ikwerres are the people of Igwe-Ocha and they are still in the settlements where they have always been.

Ijaws have never denied Igbos access to the sea and never will. The Igbos have never shown interest in seafaring till now. So there is no need to start doing gra-gra over land rights.

If as Afam claims, Ikwerres are the traditional owners of the Riverine areas, where is their riverine culture?

I tell you, the battle for PH is the most important issue in Ndigbo today. Before anyone talks about brotherhood, this issue must be addressed.

afam4eva:
Thanks,
Igbos don't claim land that is not theirs, most of this lands that they are talking about were bought by their hard earned money.

naijaking1:
I have never seen anyone more obsessed with land, houses, property and boundaries the way you're. Igbo people are said to have more than 73% of the properties in Abuja today, does it make Abuja an Igbo city?
Igbos have legally acquired a lot of land in PH, why is that a problem for you?
If Igbos legally own and reside 90% of the houses in any part of PH, you could call that area Igbo. This happens all over the World, NYC has its famous China town, Chicago with its Polish town, don't forget Boston with it Itallian and Irish neighbourhoods. Even Enugu has Hausa sections, and nobody is scared of Enugu becoming an Hausa city.

Whether Opobo is an Ijaw or Igbo land is not important, the most important issue is whether the legal residents/occupants call themselves Ijaws or Igbos.

Houses are occupied by people.

Lands and Roads are property of the State Government.

China owns nothing in UK except it's embassy.

Igbos are allowed to own as many houses as they wish, even 100% of the houses.

The only reason we try to identify what tribe owns what is because NO ONE believes in the future sustainability of Nigeria.

Igbos seem to be more obsessed with lands since they keep naming everything. There is a CONCERTED EFFORT on the part of Ndigbo leadership to create dispute in the minds of the people with all manner of folklore. This is with an eye to the future.

I am waiting for an Igbo man to provide an answer to Q2 since they keep talking about the 'blue sky' that they saw from afar.

We have records of what the British bought and we will accept that as evidence over any fables from our illiterate forefathers.

Abagworo:
no igbo has claimed the next village not to talk of another ethnic group's land unless he bought it.

So answer the following questions definitely for me.

(1.) Is Opobo an Igbo or Ijaw land?

(2.) Where is the boundary between Igbo's and Ijaws in PH?


It is very important you answer Q2 correctly, otherwise, you may be considered a traitor to the future stability of your people.

Abagworo:
@ijaw girl,i agree with you.ekpeye is the only group in the igbo family that is actually a different ethnic group.they are also found in bayelsa state.the problem with opobo and bonny is that igbo is a first language there.nobody has ever said eleme,okirika,ogoni,buguma,degema,ibibio,efik,isoko,urhobo is igbo,all these people have oil and access to sea.why then would they choose ikwerre,opobo and co?lets be logical for 1 minute.oron produces the most oil as a tribe in nigeria,why aren't igbos claiming them?

Correction: English is a first language in all the tribes you mention. Igbo was a first language due to trade. Igbo was also the first language in Okrika, now its English.


I also hope you know that Ijaw-Girl is from Bonny. This information you guys have given her about Ibani being Igbos has completely collapsed her beleif system and sent her into shock. 

BTW, I never knew I was from Umuokirika till you told me so. I thought I was from Wakirike all this time.  

Ijaws must fight the aggressive renaming of their lands.

A name has never been a proof of ownership.

Do you know that we call Igbo land Osu-Ama?

By your logic, when we declare the Ijaw Republic, we shall be annexing all Igbo lands all the way up to Awka.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=226256.msg3529644#msg3529644 date=1235919125]Amoeba (15 nano-seconds) - single-celled organism signed from Barcelona, quite possibly the next Vieira. Under laboratory conditions, it has been known he would undergo fission and play on both wings at once.[/quote]LMFAO!!!

I believe it is AW's INTENTION to qualify for the Europa Cup and not the Champions League.

He wants to use the Europa Cup as a competition to blood his foetuses into first team football.

In May, the Head Nikka In Charge (love that name) will be in charge of providing analysis on Arsenal's chances in the Europa Cup.   

Not only that but Van Rapist, Cesc Fibreglass and Adieu ByeByey'all will be handing in their transfer request.

allboyz:
if you are wise,u better go collect your money now before season go end!! Arsenal can't stay fifth . .its Never possible and its Can't happen dear,so you berra run go collect ur moni

How many games are left this season? Just 11.

If you like, keep dreaming. Arsenal will NEVER catch Aston Villa. How can you make up a probable 8 points in 11 games? You must be forgetting that you still have Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd to play, most of them away from home.


I advise all Arsenal fans to prepare their minds for the Europa Cup next season, otherwise find another club to support.

With your fixture list, I am highly skeptical that you will even finish above Everton.


But there is some consolation - you now have the chance to be the FIRST winners of the Europa Cup.  

The fool confuses a keynesian stimulus with a welfare program.

[quote author=ijaw_girl link=topic=239065.msg3529435#msg3529435 date=1235909728]@dede1, srzly source ?
I don't know where to start from, speechless[/quote]Don't even bother googling his nonsense.

Since he claims Ibani and Opubo-Ama were Igbo outposts, can he explain why the 'outposts' were big cities (with Opobo having reserves of £100,000.00) whilst the 'mainland' was still a collection of mud-hut and thatch-hut villages?

[quote author=ijaw_girl link=topic=239065.msg3529419#msg3529419 date=1235908949]WTH? Ijaw people were slaves/servants who came with Europeans? Biggest joke of the day, where did you get that bullshit from?[/quote]Label them as slaves, interlopers, recent migrants - to prepare Igbo minds for the time when they will steal Ijaw land.

It is an Imperialist tactic.

You don't know who you are dealing with - lets just say some Igbos are very complex. They pretend like we are brothers whilst all the while preparing to steal land.

Does Dede1 know the meaning of Opubo-Ama or even who Opubo is?

Ow11,

Dede1 is not even worth replying.

Later, when I have time I shall show why the battle for PH will forever cause conflict between Ijaw and Ndigbo.

What is the sake of this thread?

To talk about the betrayal of Ndigbo, the stealing of their property or the lazy drunks of Niger Delta? Or to talk about Opobo and PH?

Since you have ignored all these statements, why are you concerned with my view on this thread?

Here is an excerpt from the original link Abagworo gave:


The Ijaws who are the fourth largest tribe were grouped into the Western and Eastern Regions of Nigeria. However, they felt, the Igbos could not be trusted. They convinced Chief Ojukwu to call a meeting between the various tribes that will form Biafra as an independent state.  The essence of the meeting was to discuss the parameters by which these tribes will be recognised as a state if they win the war. The response the Igbos gave was that, the status quo remains the same, meaning that, if you were a minority in the former state (Nigeria) then, those tribes will still remain minorities. The Ijaws were not comfortable with the response. This led to the Ijaws pulling out of the Biafran state. The Igbos had under-estimated the determination of the Ijaws and even considered them as insignificant. This misunderstanding finally led Port Harcourt being captured by the Nigerian troops with Boro.


And you are still asking about betrayal.

It is funny that the minority tribes called the meeting with Ojukwu and not the other way around. Somebody who is about to declare war should consult his brother before going to war. That was my original position and it hasn't changed.

All the Ijaws, Ikwerres and Ogonis wanted was their own state under federalism. I guess, to Ojukwu, that was tantamount to conceding PH, off-shore oil and all sea ports forever. These tribes would have fought for Biafra if they were offered their own state. In the end, Nigeria gave them their own state, only to kill federalism 6 years later. In this sense, the Ijaws, Ikwerres and Ogonis lost. However, those 6 years under federalism brought about the greatest advancement in PH. Nnamdi Azikiwe Rd and all its beautiful buildings stand as testament to that. All these tribes now seek is a return to federalism, which has been my proposal on this thread.


If you want to talk about unity moving forward, then do not bring up the war or the issue of abandoned property cos that is just bringing up bad blood. Instead of agreeing with Ojukwus position on Ijaws, condemn it. Then Ijaws will also apologise for the abandoned property saga, then Igbo's apologise for marginalising Ijaws during Eastern Region, then Ijaws apologise for slave trade, then Igbos apologise for trying to claim Opobo/PH and reh reh reh reh reh.

Forget the past. We can all forgive each other but have our attitudes changed? Are Igbos still trying to lay hands on PH and Opobo in 2009? If so, what is there to discuss? As Ow11 says, until Igbo's stop trying to claim everything East of River Niger, Ijaws are better off trying to forge their own destiny.

I love this track.


[flash=425,344]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0ZulBPm_3I&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]

ETA are cooling down these days especially since devolvement.

RichyBlack, please delete this yahoo scam immediately!

Which kain questionnaire asks no questions, just collects your personal information?

folahann:
My team has suprised me yet again, this is a good run for arsenal. Now 14 games unbeaten and 5 straight clean sheets,
rise on gunners!!! we are right behind you

lol. You are a very funny guy!


"It is not about the short pass or the long pass - it is about the right pass" - Alan Hansen

Arsenal is a team playing 5-a-side football on an 11-a-side pitch.

We had the same problem till we got rid of Scolari.

Is it time to get rid of the crazy idealist, fantasist, crase man Arsene Wenger?

naijaking1:
Interesting that you should mention the tribes of Europe. Many political scientists today attribute the relative peace and stability in Europe to the de-emphasis on TRIBES. In France for example, you could have the slavs, bretons, druids, etc almost well mixed up, and pushing the agenda of the French nation. Same thing applies to Germany, Britain, Italy, and others. Unfortunately in Nigeria/Africa, some people want to go back to ancient and tribal groupings, because of fear of being dominated by another tribe.

I think misconception of the confederate/federal system is driving this misconstrued argument.

We will still be Nigerians, under one flag and federal Government, however the decisions to do with day-to-day running of the local federalities will be made locally, under federal directives.

It is good you mentioned Spain because they run EXACTLY the same model of Government with power devolved to the regions, be they Andalucian, Catalonian, Castillan, Basque etc etc etc.

The same goes for Britain to a lesser extent, but increasingly so.

Most Western European countries run such a model with varying measures of power devolved to the different regions.

Tribalism only rears its head when tribes are oppressed. This is why historically the Spanish chose to define themselves by tribe more than any other country in Western Europe. Take away any external threats to a tribe and there will be a de-emphasis on tribes.

There is no better way to ensure tribal harmony and only a misconception of the concept of devolution would prompt one to describe it as backward.

ow11:
I guess the tribal classifications would be limited to the boundaries of Nigeria.

Good point, for example, power is devolved to the Basques in Spain but their brothers still live in France under the French system.

hehehehe. . . . . . Gaynners are imploding!

6th place beckons. Watch out for Everton.

Gaynners draw, Liverpool lose, what more can a Chelseaite hope for?

Lampaaaaaaaaaaaaard!

yes!

See as our right flank just open up.