₦airaland Forum

What's the purpose of this thread?

@Olaadegbu


1. It's really very amusing to see a Jew talking so kindly about Jesus! First and foremost this man is a hypocrite (and he's even ignorant of the teachings of his OT). Why? The Jew will never accept Jesus. He only talks nicely about Jesus because he needs to get the christian support against the "common enemy". The Jew believes Jesus is a blasphemer as well as false prophet claiming to be the Messiah. That view will never change.

2. I previously mentioned this man is ignorant of the old testament itself. He cheekily states that "God doesn't want to see anyone die", completely ignoring several passages of the OT where "God" incites the Jews against other people to kill them and seize their lands. The Jew even justify interest, only if from a foreigner.

3. The portrayal of Jews as a peaceful people is new! Jews are the most rebellious set of people (as they were the most favoured). Generation after generation God sent them Prophets and Kings but they rebelled and even killed some of them. Generations after generation they fell by the side and God corrected them, sometimes he even had to send foreigners to punish them so that they will return. Finally when their Messiah came, they fought him. That was the last straw and God took away his favour from them and gave it to Ishmael i.e. the rejected stone.

Jesus did warn them that God's favour will be taken away from them and given to another people who will bring forth its fruits. Is it not interesting that Hagar actually means "Forsaken"?

4. The Jews hate Ishmael. I don't know why. So much so that in many instances Isaac was referred to as Abraham's only son! But God who sees all never forgot the slave girl who was turned out into the desert. The morale is: to whom much is given, much is expected and if you continuously mess up you should expect no more favours.

5. His claim that Islam seeks to kill the chinese, bhuddist, christians and jews is just ridiculous! He himself knows that to be false, but anyhow since it is Islam, anything can be said. Anything is justified. The Prophet said, 'If anyone kills an innocent Jew or Christian, on the Day of Judgement I will be a witness against him'.

6. He makes jests and side remarks that Muslims believe Ishmael rather than Isaac was the one to be sacrificed. Well, even from the bible using some logic and maths it can be proven that indeed it was Ishmael that was to be sacrificed. The Jews want to have us believe that God didn't wan't to have absolutely ANYTHING with Ishmael. His story ended there in the wilderness (never to be heard again), only making one surprise appearance to bury his father when he died.

7. There was absolutely no intellectual depth to his speech. He was only playing up on the emotions of an audience who already had the hatred for Islam and Muslims at heart. What was he trying to do citing Saddam and the troubles in Algeria? Is he unaware of the atrocities which his own zionist government is doing against the Palestines? Anyway it's justified. Since its just Muslims.

8. I expect you to quote someone rather than a biased Rabbi. Really. The Jew has has no right to preach about Peace. They warred against every messenger that was sent to them from Moses up to Jesus. And even when Muhammad came they severally tried to kill him, conniving with the Mekkan Polytheists, even when they had a treaty of peace existing between them and the Muslims. Ultimately they even poisoned the Prophet (as Olabowale mentioned) successfully killing some of the companions of the Prophet who ate the meal with him.

Give us another story, please.

@ Olaadegbu

Thank you Olaadegbu for your contribution. Actually, as you might have noticed this is a discussion between muslims - I'm not sure quoting Paul will count for much.

Secondly, the verse of the Qur'an you quoted cannot be used as a proof that Jesus has died already. It's futuristic and of the three only 1 has come to pass and that is his birth. The 2nd will come to be during Jesus's second coming. Hadiths of the Prophet tell us that Isa will return and be a Just Ruler. He will die, muslims will pray his funeral and he shall be buried beside the Prophet in Medina.

The 3rd will be when he's raised up i.e. the day of judgement.


@ Usisky

[4:157]  And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.

Consistently in the Quran, God refers to the soul as the real person. As far as God is concerned the body is just a host for the real you"the real person. the body only serves us in this world, but after our death the soul lives on. for the reighteous as soon as they die God raises them to Himself. for the unreighteous, they wait untill the day of judgmnet. infact the jews did infact kill jesus, but jesus the "body", but prior to that God has already raised his soul to Himself, i.e the real persson, jesus the "soul".

I have read your post Usisky. Essentially, what you've just done is to contradict the Qur'an. I'm afraid that is the long and short of it.

Usisky, there is already an existing thread on this topic, why start another thread?

i keep trying to make the muslims know that most of those who translated the quran were under the influence of their corrupted traditions

Now I think this is a very unfortunate statement to make.

@poster Those omoleku(islamic student or almajiri) are not allow to reply to this post coz they hv been brainwashed so there is nothing on there brain anymore but alfas, imams, uztas and so on are welcomed bcoz of their hilarious lies.

In other words, you're not really interested in an answer. And if you get an answer, you're not really ready to critically assess its merits.

Qur'an 41:37

And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon.
Prostrate yourselves not to the sun nor to the moon, but prostrate yourselves to Allah Who created them,
if you worship Him.

Other than its use in marking the beginning of the Yearly Muslim fast, the crescent has no other significance in
Islam. It is merely an architectural embellishment found on some (and not all) mosques. The star-crescent "logo" was adopted by the
Ottomans after the Turks conquered Constantinople - it did not even start off as a religious symbol but as a state symbol.

http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/symbols.htm

bride prize Bride Price

@Teminio But you know what? Your own marriage can be a model if you have understanding and you are ready to play your role well.

Well said 

That's serious! We sure are in the end times 

I think choosing ones kids above ones husband (or wife) is being selfish: The kid belongs to BOTH of you and not you alone!
The kid will be impossible without your husband. With your husband you can always rebuild, with your child what can you rebuild?

Imagine, your kid and husband both needing a kidney transplant and you donate to the kid leaving your husband to wither and die?
You can't face your family, friends or inlaws. The only exception is when your husband says: Darling, Just give up on me. I've spent my years anyway. Let's save the kids

Unless there are marital problems, your Husband, Wife, should always be Number One

To all you morons you cannot read---- where have I said that 32 IS A MAGIC NUMBER ?!


He is 29--- some Masters programs are 2 years---- 31 and he'll give himself one more year to get a job and put his finances together----even his wife will enjoy him more when his finances are set.

Hey, Moderator why are you changing my post? I'm just quoting what this guy called some of us 

Why didn't you change his post too? I am only telling him not to call anyone a m***n  That's not a right word to use, even if on the internet.

@posakosa  He is 29--- some Masters programs are 2 years---- 31 and he'll give himself one more year to get a job and put his finances together----even his wife will enjoy him more when his finances are set.

Thanks for the arithmetic. We didn't know where you pulled the "32" from and that's why I thought it was some magic number 

Besides, you don't need to call anyone a "slowpoke". Ok?

God says in the Qur'an:

Tell my servants that I'm indeed Forgiving and Merciful, but at the same time, My punishment is severe!

God's mercy is for the righteous believers, but if one persists in sinning and disbelief - never repenting - till he is overtaking by death, then God's punishment is certainly severe.

According Islamic teachings, punishment may be eternal or temporary. In some narrations of the Prophet, a time will come, when no one,
with Faith, the weight of even a seed, will be left in the Fire. However, a natural question to ask is: What is Faith?

All of Islam, Christianity and Judaism proclaim the existence of Hell. And of Paradise.

More important, God’s Word does not say that such a place exists

You were just kidding here, weren't you?

Humans return to dust—to nonexistence—when they die

Humanity will be given life once again to face either Reward or Punishment. The human soul, once created lives forever! The body may rot and disintegrate but the soul is alive and ever-conscious! It reminds me of a poem by John Donne:

One short sleepe past, wee wake eternally,
And death shall be no more; death, thou shalt die.

@posakosa ^^^ U're 29--- why not get married at 32 ?

Is 32 a magic number?


@poster:

1. Can you obtain a study leave where you're working right now? If you can obtain a study leave, MSc is 1 year in the UK (if your school is in the UK), on your return to Naija after your MSc you can gladly pick up your job. And your wife  

2. If you can't obtain a study leave, maybe it's better to stick around, hold your job and get married. You could then stash up some savings and after working for a while you can try and get a study leave. But do inquire from your boss whether there's a study-leave policy already in place.


Good luck!

My brother trinity is not biblical and all the so called "evidences" that support it in the bible are very subjective and in my opinion are actually forced or manipulated to support it. The weight of evidence in the bible suggests that Jesus and God the father are two seperate entities and God the Father is superior to Jesus.

A sensible voice for once!

If there are evidences in the bible that claim Jesus is God, they are far outweighed by those that show that he is not God.

Is it any surprise that we have unitarian christians today?

1. allah? Allah: any attempt by anyone to discuss the origin of allah, his idolic past, wife and three kids is usually met with a ban and the thread locked.
certain people are uncomfortable with discussing or exposing the true origins of allah.

I understand this statement was driven by sheer hatred than anything.

My question: who is Allah or what is the origin of allah? I want you to reference the Qur'an, Hadith and authentic history.

You made a statement and the onus of proof and explanation is on you. This is a challenge.

@Niyi: Why dont you find out the verse which says jesus is in the second heaven, yahya also with him, and so on? There is no such verse in the quran! I have read the quran from the begining to the end and i have never come across such verse.

Of course there is no verse in the Qur'an that says Isa is in the second heaven - and who said there is such a verse?

So what are you trying to say? That you don't believe it because you did not find it in the Qur'an?!

What of if it were in an authentic Hadith? Will you disbelieve it?

@Niyi: Even hadith abu daud, is considered to be having some weak hadith in it. Even bukhari is also considered by some scholars to be having some weak traditions in it.

And so? What's your point? Scholars have spent centuries identifying weak, false and authentic hadith. May Allah bless their efforts.

The Prophet said:

I leave for you two things, with which you will never go astray: The Qur'an and Hadith.


Niyi, do you have anything against the Hadith of the Rasul?

@Niyi: I would like to know how jesus is eating up there as God says in sura ambiya,8, and we gave them not a body that eats not nor were they to live eternally.

Well I don't know how Jesus is eating up there, or whether he is eating or not 


The question is: Is it possible for Allah to keep a human being alive without food? The answer is YES.


Proof: The People of the Cave (Surah Kahf) were kept alive in the cave by Allah for more than
300 years without food, drink or any form of nourishment.


Do you think that the people of the Cave and the Inscription were a wonder among Our Signs?

She went to the hospital not because of the issue but because she was sick from agbo she reportedly took.

I wish you goodluck in your search for the truth.

Cheers 

Yeah, let her see your family doctor and let her undergo the tests every rape victim should undergo. It's a serious issue.

A question, who is the doctor preparing the report for? For you? I really don't want to laugh!

Alright the doctor treated her for stomach fungus; didn't he treat her also for rape? 'Are you pondering what I'm pondering?'

ALMOST 90% OF GIRLS HAVE BEEN RAPED BY SOMEBODY, FROM RELATIVES, TO FRIENDS, TO UNKNOWN RAPISTS.

Reference please?  Is your CAPS lock broken or something?


@Poster

Her behaviour is dubious.

Since she "has been raped" I sincerely advise you to urge her to go for a HIV test (as well as counselling). That is the natural course of action
for any victim of rape. She should also undergo a pregnancy test. This is standard practice. Should I even be telling anyone this?

1) If it is true (that she was raped) it could save her life and

2) If it is not true, it might give you fresh insight into her story (as for now it is simply just 'her story' till it is confirmed). You should see a red flag if she dodges any request to undergo a HIV test. And why shouldn't she go for a HIV test?

3) Ask her if she can identify the rapist. If she can, the police should come in. Yes, rape is that serious. Or should the "bad wicked man" just go scot-free?

Other than taking that "herb which was disturbing her", what other course of action has she taken after her rape?

You've still not replied my question: how is Isa being in heaven derogatory to God's unity? 


Or let me help you answer the question: The reason why you so much dislike the idea of Jesus being in heaven is that it would terribly jeopardize Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's claim of being the awaited Messiah! The Ahmadi leader knew that if Isa was still alive in heaven, and will be later returning to earth,  then his audacious claim of being the messiah will be automatically rejected


And hence, for him, it was only convenient to get Isa (A.S) out of the way.


That is the real reason.


Anyway, Niyi, I think instead of just making this brief statement:

The Holy Quran has clearly mentioned that jesus (isa ibn maryam) is dead. 5:116-117;3:56 etc. And it is against the idea that he was raised up to the heavens.

One would have expected you to present a detailed article explaining your position. Then you can wait for the "house of assembly" to either agree or disagree with you. It seemed you just made the statement in order to start an argument?


You started the thread. Can we have your essay please? Thank you.

1.

I dislike the idea of isa been in heaven because it is against the clear statement of the quran, and also derogatory to his unity.

Derogatory to whose unity? Was Muhammad not ever in heaven? What of Jibreel and the other angels?


2. I now put the question to you: How does Isa being in heaven compromise God's unity?


3. And its blatantly false to say its against the statement of the Qur'an. Because the Qur'an clearly states that Isa was raised. And the Hadiths of the prophet concur that he is in the 2nd heaven.


4. I also like discussing point by point and that's why I even take the pains to number all my statements.


5. Have you sincerely answered all the points I gave?


Frankly, you can choose to believe whatever you wish to believe.


Wassalam.

So is HIJAB a sign of purity&virginity?

The Hijab is not a sign of virginity.

Nor was it required by Islam for this purpose.

Rather it was meant to make women appear in a decent covering and protect them from harassment.

Frankly, there are only minor differences between the nun's dressing and the Hijab.

That some Muslim women do abuse the Hijab is entirely another issue.

1.

if God is the subject, would automatically mean death.

I think you need to expatiate on this.


2.

You say according to the quran that Allah is settled throne.

I didn't say, Allah said.


3.

Where is the throne? In sura hud, it is written that the throne is on water.

Yes, that's correct.


4.

So is the water in heaven?(smiling)

The water is above the Heavens not in heaven

It is narrated from Abbas bin Abdul-Muttalib (May Allah be pleased with him) that Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said:
   

"Do you know how much the distance between earth and heaven is?" We said, "Allah and His Messenger know better." Then he (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said, "The distance between them is 500 years, and the distance between one heaven to the next is 500 years, and the dimension of each heaven will take 500 years to travel, and there is a sea between the seventh heaven and the Throne which has between its lowest and highest ends the distance like that between the heavens and the earth (i.e. 500 years). And Allah the Most Exalted is above that and nothing is secret from Him of the deeds of Bani Adam (humankind)."

[Reported by Abu Dawud and others.]


5.

who told you that adam and eve were both in heaven

Adam and Hauwa were both in the Garden, which is above the heavens. Are you arguing that Adam and Hauwa were not in the Garden?


6)

He is about to place a vicegerant on earth not in heaven,was it only the two of them that was in it? GOD when sending then out said 'ihbituu', it is used in the plural form.

Yes the vicegerant was on earth and not in heaven and were Adam and Hauwa not eventually brought to the earth?

What point are you trying to prove here?



7)

YANZILU is from NAZALA. It means to descend. Does it also mean a physical descent

.

Yes it does. Surah Ar-Rum Verse 24: And He sends down (yunzila) water from the sky, and therewith revives the earth after its death.


8.

Is God not powerfull to save jesus without taking him to heaven

Yes indeed He is!

But that being the case, He has told us in the Qur'an and through the lips of His Apostle, that Isa was raised to the 2nd Heaven.

And we are not to question why He chose to do it that way. If one could believe the truth of the Isra and Miraaj, then why can't one believe this?


Let me ask you a question: Why is it that you just seem to dislike the idea that Isa (A.S) is in Heaven?


Wassalam

Nothing wrong to do either the washing-up or the cooking as the situation permits. Not a big deal for me.

I fancy a marriage where the two parties help each other. It could be romantic really when the husband is
washing the dishes and the wife doing the cooking in the kitchen at the same time.

Rather than the husband fiddling with the remote control in the sitting room while the wife is battling with both chores. Sounds Un-african eh?
Some men only enter their kitchens when the foundation blocks are being laid to inspect that a good job is being done!

However I will understand with the poster, if the woman stood over him with hands akimbo and directs him to do the dishes. That will be a problem.



PS
----
Marriages start developing problems when one party feels cheated and unappreciated. 

The word rafaha does not mean to raise one physically but spiritually. Rafaha has been used in different places in the holy quran, and i will appreciate it if you will present to me some places in the holy quran where it is used physically when refering to Allah.

Moreover, where is Allah before you say jesus is been raised? ALLAH says He is every where. In different places He says we are all going to return to him. Nobody ever thought it to be a bodily meeting. In (29:26), abraham says he is 'muhajirun' going to his Lord. It is also used in a spiritual sense. In (37:99), he also used a word 'zahibun' going. Therefore any going to God is in the spiritual sense

My reply:-

1. Well I don't know the meaning of rafaha but I guess you mean rafa'a?


2. What are your sources that the word rafa'a does not mean to raise one physically but spiritually?


3.

i will appreciate it if you will present to me some places in the holy quran where it is used physically when refering to Allah

Well the Ayah I quoted was referering to Isa and not Allah. In grammar we say "Isa is the object on whom the action (i.e. being raised) was performed". And the "unto Himself" of course does not mean side-by-side with Allah but that Isa was raised into Allah's security and protection in heaven.


4.

Moreover, where is Allah before you say jesus is been raised?

Allah tells us in Surah 20:5: The Most Gracious rose over (Istawa) the Throne


5.

ALLAH says He is every where

Your God is God alone, there is no deity but Him. He encompasses all things in His knowledge. (Surah Ta Ha: 98).
 
 
The majority view of the scholars (ahl sunnah wal jamma'a) is that Allah does not intermingle in His essence with His creation but He
encompasses creation with His Knowledge and Might.

He sees, is aware and has power over you wherever you are. In language we would say "God is with us". But this proximity (said to be even closer than the jugular vein in an Ayah) is not that His very essence is in contact with us and the rest of  creation. No.

He sees the blood as it flows through our veins; He sees the death and birth of the cells in our bones; He hears the light fall of the leaf on the grass and  He sees the earthworm as it moves its way upwards through the soil. Nothing escapes Him.

And He doesn't have to be "physically" everywhere to be able to do this

And that's why in Surah Jinn the Jinns say: "And we do not think that we can ever escape Allah in the earth nor escape Him by flight"
 
I do not want to discuss much on this as it will only make us spiral into vain argumentation and we lose focus.

You may open another thread on this if you wish.


6. According to Hadith Isa is presently in the 2nd Heaven.

Is it only jesus that was seen in the journey? If it is that he is in paradise, then it means that he is dead, because one cannot enter the      paradise with this physical body.

I have some important points to make here:

a) Who says if you're in paradise then you must be dead? Were Adam and Hauwa dead when they were in paradise?

b) Who says we are not entering the paradise with the physical body? Where Adam and Hauwa not "flesh and blood" while in paradise? What are your sources?

c) In any case, where has the 2nd Heaven e v e r being equated with paradise?

d) Well there is no promise to break. The promise was to the denizens of the paradise after reward and punishment have been decided. Or will you say Allah has broken His promise when Adam and Hauwa were taken from the Paradise? You should understand the promise within its context.


7. From your definition of rafa'a, sincerely speaking, how will you now logically explain this verse:

                                              And because of their saying "but they killed him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them,
                                             and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture.
                                             For surely they killed him not"

                                             "But, Allah raised him up unto Himself. And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise"

                                             Qur'an 4:158 - 159


                                              The question is: How will being "raised spiritually" save one from physical danger?



8.

Produce a verse of the quran that support your idea

a) I have given you the lexical and actual meaning of the word.

   b) I have quoted an ayah that showed that the Qur'an has used the same word in a different manner Quran 6:60.

   c) I have quoted an Islamic Scholar's understanding of the word.

   d) Can you prove that in toto wherever the word "waffa/ tawaffa" occurs in the Quran, then it must inexorably be translated as "death"?

   e) Does that one exception I quoted (6:60) not suffice you to make you consider that the "tawaffa" in 5:117 might not  n e c e s s a r i l y mean death?

   f) What exactly do you want me to do?


9.  You've not answered the Hadiths I quoted to my satisfaction. Which  are  those   o t  h e r   t r a d i t i o n s  you are referring to? The hadith explicitly used the word (yanzala) which means to descend. So is he spiritually descending or what? Where is Isa descending from?



Wassalam.