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gbrookes02: gbrookes02: Trinity Proof Texts: Isaiah 6



Isaiah 6:1: In the year of King Uzziah's death, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple.

Isaiah 6:8-9 Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!" And He said, "Go, and tell this people: 'Keep on listening, but do not perceive; Keep on looking, but do not understand.'





I. Jesus is Yahweh:

A. Isaiah saw Jesus Christ (Yahweh)

"In the year of King Uzziah's death I saw Yahweh sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. " Isaiah 6:1
"For my eyes have seen the King, Yahwah of hosts." Isaiah 6:5
"Then I heard the voice of Yahweh, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!" " Isaiah 6:8
"These things Isaiah said because he (Isaiah) saw His (Christ's) glory, and he spoke of Him (Christ)." John 12:41
B. The context of John 12:41:
"These things Isaiah said because he saw His (Christ's) glory, and he spoke of Him (Christ)." John 12:41

The section focuses on Christ being glorified, with the Glory he had before creation (Jn 17:5) and how men were to believe in Jesus as the Saviour of the world.
John quotes from Isaiah several times about how men could not believe in Jesus.
The "Him" in John 12:41 can only be Jesus:
when Jesus was glorified v16
the Son of Man to be glorified v23
Father, glorify Your name (by glorifying Jesus) v28
they were not believing in Christ v37
Lord, who has believed our report v38
to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed v38
these things Isaiah said because he saw His (Christ's) glory, and he spoke of Him (Christ) v41
many even of the rulers believed in Him v42
Jesus cried out and said, He who believes in Me v44
He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me v45
A simple reading of the context of John 12 makes it clear that John is saying that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus Christ himself in Isaiah 6. This proves Jesus is Yahweh.
C. Full context of John 12:41 proves Isaiah saw Jesus' glory.

"These things His disciples did not understand at the first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written of Him, and that they had done these things to Him. " John 12:16
"And Jesus answered them, saying, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. " John 12:23
""Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, 'Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour. "Father, glorify Your name." Then a voice came out of heaven: "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again." " John 12:27-28
"But though He (Christ) had performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in Him (Christ). This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, "He has blinded their eyes and He hardened their heart, so that they would not see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, and be converted and I heal them." THESE THINGS ISAIAH SAID BECAUSE HE SAW HIS (CHRIST'S) GLORY, AND HE SPOKE OF HIM (CHRIST). Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him (Christ), but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him (Christ), for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God. And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me. "He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me. " John 12:37-45
II. Plural pronouns used of God proving the trinity:

A. Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages. Remember the word God (elohim) is also plural every time it is used in the Old Testament. Gen 11:7 also includes a plural verb (confuse) which even further, through grammer reinforces the plural "elohim" and the plural pronoun US.

"Our" Gen 1:26
"Us" Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8
"We" Isa 6:8
B. These are the four passages where God speaks for Himself and uses plural pronouns:

"Then God [plural elohim] said, "Let Us [plural pronoun] make man in Our [plural pronoun] image, according to Our [plural pronoun] likeness" Genesis 1:26
"Then Yahweh God [plural elohim] said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us [plural pronoun], knowing good and evil" Genesis 3:22
"Come, let Us [plural pronoun] go down and there confuse [plural form of balal] their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech." Genesis 11:7
"Then I heard the voice of the Lord [plural elohim], saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us [plural pronoun]?"" Isaiah 6:8

http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-texts-isaiah6.htm



Biblical Basis for Trinity

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD
Deuteronomy 6:4
Isaiah 43:10
Isaiah 44:6-8
OLD TESTAMENT EVIDENCES OF THE TRINITY
Genesis 1:1,26,27
Isaiah 6:1-10
Isaiah 48:12-16
Zechariah 2:10-11
(Points I & lll are not contested by those who deny the Trinity, therefore little space is given them here.)

THE FATHER IS GOD
I Peter 1:17
John 5:17-23
THE SON IS GOD
He Is Called God Explicitly
Matthew 1:23, "Emmanuel-God with us."
John 1:1, "The Word was God." (Note: There is no scholarly support for the NWT rendering it "a god." For a thorough treatment of this issue request our study on John 1:1)
John 5:17-23, The Son is "equal" to his Father
John 8:53-59, Jesus is the "I AM" of Exodus 3:1-15
John 10:28-33, Jesus and the Father are equal
John 20:28 "The Lord of me and THE GOD of me."
Romans 9:5, Christ is God over all
Colossians 2:9, All the fullness of deity
Titus 2:13, "our Great God and Saviour."
Hebrews 1:8, "Thy throne O God."
I John 5:20, "The true God."
He Is Described In Terms Reserved Only For God
Creator of ALL Things
John 1:3
Ephesians 3:9
Colossians 1:16,17
Hebrews 2:10
Revelation 3:14
The Almighty
Revelation 1:8 with 21:5-7; and 22:12,13,16,20
The First and Last
Revelation 1:17; 2:8; 22:13 (Compare Isaiah 44:6)
The Exact Representation of The Father
Hebrews 1:3
John 12:45 and 14:6-11
Isaiah 46:9
He Is Worshipped As God. (See Luke 4:
Revelation 5:11-13 (Compare Revelation 4:9-11)
Hebrews 1:6
O.T./N.T. Cross-Reference Proves Jesus Is God
Isaiah 40:3 with John 1:23 & 3:28
Isaiah 45:23 with Philippians 2:10,11 and Romans 14:11
Isaiah 44:24 with John 1:3
Isaiah 6:1-5 with John 12:37-41
Isaiah 8:13,14 with I Peter 2:7,8
Isaiah 42:8 with John 17:5
Isaiah 60:19 with Luke 2:30-32
Psalms 102:24-27 with Hebrews 1:10-12
Psalms 45:6,7 with Hebrews 1:8,9
Psalms 23:1 with Isaiah 40:10,11 and John 10,11
I Kings 8:39 with Revelation 2:23
Joel 2:32 with Romans 10:9-13
Exodus 3:14 with John 8:58,59
Malachi 3:1 with Matthew 11:10
Exodus 19:18-21 with Hebrews 12:18-26
Zechariah 12:10 & 13:6,7 with John 19:34-37
Zechariah 14:4,5 with Matthew 24:29-31; Matthew 25:31; Jude 14,15; II Thessalonians 1:7-10; Revelation 19:11-21
Jesus Is God Made Flesh
Philippians 2:5-8: Jesus "being in the form of God" (i.e., deity), did not consider it something to cling to, but emptied himself of his divine glory and perogatives, NOT his divine nature, and took UPON his divine form "the form of a servant" (i.e., humanity), in order to suffer death.
John 1:1,14: "In the beginning was (eternally) the Word and the Word was with God (i.e., the Father and Holy Spirit), and the Word was God (deity)." "And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us."
Hebrews 1:3 and 2:9-18: Jesus is the "EXACT REPRESENTATION of His (God's) VERY BEING" (NWT). No creature could possibly do that! But, Jesus set aside his infinite glory to become one of us so that he could be to us an, example in faith, the perfect sacrifice, our High Priest, Comforter, and Saviour.
Who Is The "Angel Of Jehovah?"
Genesis 16:7-13
Genesis 18:1,13,17,20-22,26,33; 19:24
Genesis 22:11-18
Genesis 31:11-13
Genesis 32:24-30 (compare Hosea 12:4,5)
Genesis 48: 15,16
Exodus 3:1-15 (compare vs. 5 with Joshua 5: 14,15)
Exodus 23:20,21
Judges 6:11-23
Note: In these passages the "Angel of Jehovah" speaks as Jehovah, is called Jehovah, does the works of Jehovah, and is worshipped by those to whom He appears. He is Jesus, the Son of God. "Angel" means "messenger" and is applied to the angelic beings, men (evangelists), and to God (see above)

Answers To Common Antitrinitarian Prooftexts
John 14:28 "My Father is greater than I." Just as the husband is positionally greater than the wife so the Father is greater the the Son. Both husband and wife are equally human as the Father and Son are equally divine.
Colossians 1:15 "the Firstborn of all creation." "Firstborn" (Gr. Prototokos), not "first created" (Gr. "Protoktistos". Firstborn is term that means first in importance. These scriptures bear that out: Genesis 41:51,52 with Jeremiah 31:9; Deuteronomy 21:15-17; Exodus 4:22; and Job 18:13.
Revelation 3:14 "the beginning of the creation of God." We derive many words such as architect, archangel, arch-rival, from the Greek word "arche" translated "beginning" in this verse. It means "origin," "source," "chief," and "ruler." Jesus is the origin of ALL, or the creator.
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD
He Is Called God
Acts 5:3,4 Lying to the Spirit is lying to God
II Corinthians 3:17 "The Lord is that Spirit." (compare this with Exodus 34:29-35)
He Is Omnipotent
Isaiah 40:12-14 (See Romans 11:34 and I Corinthians 2:16)
He Is Omniscient
I Corinthians 2:10,11 Isaiah 40: 13,14
He Is Omnipresent
Psalm 139:7
He Is Eternal
Hebrews 9:14
He Has The Attributes Of Personality
Intellect
Romans 8:27, "The MIND of the Spirit."
I Corinthians 2:10-12, The Spirit "KNOWS."
Will
I Corinthians 12:11, "The Spirit WILLS."
Emotion
Ephesians 4:30, "GRIEVE" not the Spirit
His Self-Cognizance Is Shown By These Actions:
He Speaks
Acts 8:29; 10:19; 13:2; 21:11
Revelation 2:7,11,17,29; 3:6,13,22
He Teaches
Luke 12:12
John 14:26
I John 2:26,27
Says "I"
Acts 10:20
If the Holy Spirit is a self-cognizant personality, and is also eternal, then He must be God, for God is the only eternal being.
Conclusion

"So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet there are not three Gods, but one God." (from The Athanasian Creed)

http://www.watchman.org/articles/general-topics-doctrine/biblical-basis-for-trinity/

Please fix the holy spirit into this equation in 1 corinthians 11:3....

And please in all the times revelations were given about Yahweh ,his servant and son (Jesus),and all the angels it appears the holy spirit is always missing....

Where the holy spirit dey go??

It is always Jesus sitting @ the right hand of His God(Yahweh) but the holy spirit we no dey see........

Where is the holy spirit in heaven??

It is a known fact that the Father is greater than the Son,can you please open a scripture to show who is greater than the holy spirit....

gbrookes02: gbrookes02: Trinity Proof Texts: Isaiah 6



Isaiah 6:1: In the year of King Uzziah's death, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple.

Isaiah 6:8-9 Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!" And He said, "Go, and tell this people: 'Keep on listening, but do not perceive; Keep on looking, but do not understand.'





I. Jesus is Yahweh:

A. Isaiah saw Jesus Christ (Yahweh)

"In the year of King Uzziah's death I saw Yahweh sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. " Isaiah 6:1
"For my eyes have seen the King, Yahwah of hosts." Isaiah 6:5
"Then I heard the voice of Yahweh, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!" " Isaiah 6:8
"These things Isaiah said because he (Isaiah) saw His (Christ's) glory, and he spoke of Him (Christ)." John 12:41
B. The context of John 12:41:
"These things Isaiah said because he saw His (Christ's) glory, and he spoke of Him (Christ)." John 12:41

The section focuses on Christ being glorified, with the Glory he had before creation (Jn 17:5) and how men were to believe in Jesus as the Saviour of the world.
John quotes from Isaiah several times about how men could not believe in Jesus.
The "Him" in John 12:41 can only be Jesus:
when Jesus was glorified v16
the Son of Man to be glorified v23
Father, glorify Your name (by glorifying Jesus) v28
they were not believing in Christ v37
Lord, who has believed our report v38
to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed v38
these things Isaiah said because he saw His (Christ's) glory, and he spoke of Him (Christ) v41
many even of the rulers believed in Him v42
Jesus cried out and said, He who believes in Me v44
He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me v45
A simple reading of the context of John 12 makes it clear that John is saying that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus Christ himself in Isaiah 6. This proves Jesus is Yahweh.
C. Full context of John 12:41 proves Isaiah saw Jesus' glory.

"These things His disciples did not understand at the first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written of Him, and that they had done these things to Him. " John 12:16
"And Jesus answered them, saying, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. " John 12:23
""Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, 'Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour. "Father, glorify Your name." Then a voice came out of heaven: "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again." " John 12:27-28
"But though He (Christ) had performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in Him (Christ). This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, "He has blinded their eyes and He hardened their heart, so that they would not see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, and be converted and I heal them." THESE THINGS ISAIAH SAID BECAUSE HE SAW HIS (CHRIST'S) GLORY, AND HE SPOKE OF HIM (CHRIST). Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him (Christ), but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him (Christ), for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God. And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me. "He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me. " John 12:37-45
II. Plural pronouns used of God proving the trinity:

A. Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages. Remember the word God (elohim) is also plural every time it is used in the Old Testament. Gen 11:7 also includes a plural verb (confuse) which even further, through grammer reinforces the plural "elohim" and the plural pronoun US.

"Our" Gen 1:26
"Us" Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8
"We" Isa 6:8
B. These are the four passages where God speaks for Himself and uses plural pronouns:

"Then God [plural elohim] said, "Let Us [plural pronoun] make man in Our [plural pronoun] image, according to Our [plural pronoun] likeness" Genesis 1:26
"Then Yahweh God [plural elohim] said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us [plural pronoun], knowing good and evil" Genesis 3:22
"Come, let Us [plural pronoun] go down and there confuse [plural form of balal] their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech." Genesis 11:7
"Then I heard the voice of the Lord [plural elohim], saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us [plural pronoun]?"" Isaiah 6:8

http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-texts-isaiah6.htm



Biblical Basis for Trinity

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD
Deuteronomy 6:4
Isaiah 43:10
Isaiah 44:6-8
OLD TESTAMENT EVIDENCES OF THE TRINITY
Genesis 1:1,26,27
Isaiah 6:1-10
Isaiah 48:12-16
Zechariah 2:10-11
(Points I & lll are not contested by those who deny the Trinity, therefore little space is given them here.)

THE FATHER IS GOD
I Peter 1:17
John 5:17-23
THE SON IS GOD
He Is Called God Explicitly
Matthew 1:23, "Emmanuel-God with us."
John 1:1, "The Word was God." (Note: There is no scholarly support for the NWT rendering it "a god." For a thorough treatment of this issue request our study on John 1:1)
John 5:17-23, The Son is "equal" to his Father
John 8:53-59, Jesus is the "I AM" of Exodus 3:1-15
John 10:28-33, Jesus and the Father are equal
John 20:28 "The Lord of me and THE GOD of me."
Romans 9:5, Christ is God over all
Colossians 2:9, All the fullness of deity
Titus 2:13, "our Great God and Saviour."
Hebrews 1:8, "Thy throne O God."
I John 5:20, "The true God."
He Is Described In Terms Reserved Only For God
Creator of ALL Things
John 1:3
Ephesians 3:9
Colossians 1:16,17
Hebrews 2:10
Revelation 3:14
The Almighty
Revelation 1:8 with 21:5-7; and 22:12,13,16,20
The First and Last
Revelation 1:17; 2:8; 22:13 (Compare Isaiah 44:6)
The Exact Representation of The Father
Hebrews 1:3
John 12:45 and 14:6-11
Isaiah 46:9
He Is Worshipped As God. (See Luke 4:
Revelation 5:11-13 (Compare Revelation 4:9-11)
Hebrews 1:6
O.T./N.T. Cross-Reference Proves Jesus Is God
Isaiah 40:3 with John 1:23 & 3:28
Isaiah 45:23 with Philippians 2:10,11 and Romans 14:11
Isaiah 44:24 with John 1:3
Isaiah 6:1-5 with John 12:37-41
Isaiah 8:13,14 with I Peter 2:7,8
Isaiah 42:8 with John 17:5
Isaiah 60:19 with Luke 2:30-32
Psalms 102:24-27 with Hebrews 1:10-12
Psalms 45:6,7 with Hebrews 1:8,9
Psalms 23:1 with Isaiah 40:10,11 and John 10,11
I Kings 8:39 with Revelation 2:23
Joel 2:32 with Romans 10:9-13
Exodus 3:14 with John 8:58,59
Malachi 3:1 with Matthew 11:10
Exodus 19:18-21 with Hebrews 12:18-26
Zechariah 12:10 & 13:6,7 with John 19:34-37
Zechariah 14:4,5 with Matthew 24:29-31; Matthew 25:31; Jude 14,15; II Thessalonians 1:7-10; Revelation 19:11-21
Jesus Is God Made Flesh
Philippians 2:5-8: Jesus "being in the form of God" (i.e., deity), did not consider it something to cling to, but emptied himself of his divine glory and perogatives, NOT his divine nature, and took UPON his divine form "the form of a servant" (i.e., humanity), in order to suffer death.
John 1:1,14: "In the beginning was (eternally) the Word and the Word was with God (i.e., the Father and Holy Spirit), and the Word was God (deity)." "And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us."
Hebrews 1:3 and 2:9-18: Jesus is the "EXACT REPRESENTATION of His (God's) VERY BEING" (NWT). No creature could possibly do that! But, Jesus set aside his infinite glory to become one of us so that he could be to us an, example in faith, the perfect sacrifice, our High Priest, Comforter, and Saviour.
Who Is The "Angel Of Jehovah?"
Genesis 16:7-13
Genesis 18:1,13,17,20-22,26,33; 19:24
Genesis 22:11-18
Genesis 31:11-13
Genesis 32:24-30 (compare Hosea 12:4,5)
Genesis 48: 15,16
Exodus 3:1-15 (compare vs. 5 with Joshua 5: 14,15)
Exodus 23:20,21
Judges 6:11-23
Note: In these passages the "Angel of Jehovah" speaks as Jehovah, is called Jehovah, does the works of Jehovah, and is worshipped by those to whom He appears. He is Jesus, the Son of God. "Angel" means "messenger" and is applied to the angelic beings, men (evangelists), and to God (see above)

Answers To Common Antitrinitarian Prooftexts
John 14:28 "My Father is greater than I." Just as the husband is positionally greater than the wife so the Father is greater the the Son. Both husband and wife are equally human as the Father and Son are equally divine.
Colossians 1:15 "the Firstborn of all creation." "Firstborn" (Gr. Prototokos), not "first created" (Gr. "Protoktistos". Firstborn is term that means first in importance. These scriptures bear that out: Genesis 41:51,52 with Jeremiah 31:9; Deuteronomy 21:15-17; Exodus 4:22; and Job 18:13.
Revelation 3:14 "the beginning of the creation of God." We derive many words such as architect, archangel, arch-rival, from the Greek word "arche" translated "beginning" in this verse. It means "origin," "source," "chief," and "ruler." Jesus is the origin of ALL, or the creator.
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD
He Is Called God
Acts 5:3,4 Lying to the Spirit is lying to God
II Corinthians 3:17 "The Lord is that Spirit." (compare this with Exodus 34:29-35)
He Is Omnipotent
Isaiah 40:12-14 (See Romans 11:34 and I Corinthians 2:16)
He Is Omniscient
I Corinthians 2:10,11 Isaiah 40: 13,14
He Is Omnipresent
Psalm 139:7
He Is Eternal
Hebrews 9:14
He Has The Attributes Of Personality
Intellect
Romans 8:27, "The MIND of the Spirit."
I Corinthians 2:10-12, The Spirit "KNOWS."
Will
I Corinthians 12:11, "The Spirit WILLS."
Emotion
Ephesians 4:30, "GRIEVE" not the Spirit
His Self-Cognizance Is Shown By These Actions:
He Speaks
Acts 8:29; 10:19; 13:2; 21:11
Revelation 2:7,11,17,29; 3:6,13,22
He Teaches
Luke 12:12
John 14:26
I John 2:26,27
Says "I"
Acts 10:20
If the Holy Spirit is a self-cognizant personality, and is also eternal, then He must be God, for God is the only eternal being.
Conclusion

"So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet there are not three Gods, but one God." (from The Athanasian Creed)

http://www.watchman.org/articles/general-topics-doctrine/biblical-basis-for-trinity/

Please fix the holy spirit into this equation in 1 corinthians 11:3....

And please in all the times revelations were given about Yahweh ,his servant and son (Jesus),and all the angels it appears the holy spirit is always missing....

Where the holy spirit dey go??

It is always Jesus sitting @ the right hand of His God(Yahweh) but the holy spirit we no dey see........

Where is the holy spirit in heaven??

It is a known fact that the Father is greater than the Son,can you please open a scripture to show who is greater than the holy spirit....

Ubenedictus: Now lets see very correct, Jesus isnt d father, but ubenedictus and his son have d same nature. d different persons im nt suprised

i can relate to this.

no! This is where i disagree, ubenedictus servant saw that ubenedict gave birth to christianus and they said christianus is equally human in nature as ubenedictus, they said the have equal nature they called it co equality.

now i can catch d fun at d end and i laugh. Bookmark finished his analogy and fogot or delibrately refused to add that that ubenedictus and christianus posses d fulness of d human nature and both are human.

There is 1 nature of every being living in heaven....


And do you know what that is??

Again:::::

Jesus shares a common title with all the other angels in heaven...

""MORNING STAR""...

How does that make the angels co-equal with Jesus

Please always remember that as much as you struggle to make Jesus co-equal with his GOD and Father the more you are making Jesus co-eqaul with us humans....

That's the chain reaction bro...

Ubenedictus: I saw u were vanished in the other topic, u shuld tank me for giving u a way out. Take a look at d parallels
wu gave ijawkid his humanhood.
wuld ijawkid b considerd human if his parents didnt bestow it on him?

ur head bearly tinks.


hw wuld u say ijawkid is equally human if he recieved from his parents?

y would iJawkid recieve anytin from one he is equally human wit.
Do u see y u dont make sense?

i said he recieved all by d fact dat he was begotten, he recieve all from all eternity.

hmm...

U forgot to find out if Ijawkid co-existed the same time with his Father who begot him.....

My Father was born 1950....

Did I also exist simultenously with my dad when he was born 1950??

Now could u say it is possible that I am co-equal with my dad??

If my Father caused my birth how on earth would I say I am co-equal with my dad??

How could I use the fact that because I am flesh and blood with my dad ,then I am co-equal to my dad.....

Forgetting that my dad has everything and gives me anythin I need.without which I would be nobody....

If Jesus would be a slave of Yahweh for all eternity how then does that support co-equality??


It will be like saying ubenidictus is co-equal with Jesus...

Ubenedictus: a human and his servant non of them was called God in d preceeding passage.

As we have seen some translators used the word ""worship"" -in that matthew....

The question is was the human king the God of that slave who was begging for a favor??

Eh??

Ubenedictus: yeah he his, he has authority over all, he created dem all


y wil i b suprised that someone couldnt interprete well.

ofcuz

So the angels are trinitarians??

The bible never says that....now that is some trash my bro...u have finally defined the angels as trinitarians....lol...

Please I need one scripture for the rubbish u just spewed out

oiseworld: If you are neither hot nor cold i will spit u out. That is the word of our God to those who are neither christians nor unbelievers

Revelation 3:16: 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Thats in the same class as miserable and useless. The class of the jehovah withness. But who am i to judge.

As for those who are not jehovah withness, the Bible says my people perish for lack of knowledge. Try Understand the liberty you have.

You are most welcome....thanks.....

Now can you tell me one thing christmas has accomplished since its inception from paganism...

Let's analyze it....

Ubenedictus: oh we can pray to d son my bible says "anything u ask me in my name i will do", we can also pray to d fada thru d son and in d holyspirit

Can it happen the other way round??

Can you pray through the Father to the son??

Can you??

Can the Father serve as a high priest??

Can the Father serve as a mediator between man and Jesus??

Can it ever happen??

Jesus says he is pleading on our behalf....it seems you want to remove Jesus from his office...

No wonder mary is now your mediator....

You guys flung Yahweh into the dustbin,made Jesus the almighty and made mary the new high priest and mediator.....


I believe you are happy with that......

Arrant rubbish and idolatry......

Ubenedictus: really? How does d "word" inside d fada sound? U have started to use d material to describe d immaterial. Joke

So tell me .....when Jesus was on earth was his Father wordless??

Put on your thinking caps once more......

The bible is also called the word of God....

What does that mean to you??

Ubenedictus: hahaha, my bible say Jesus know all thing and dat d holy spirit searchet all things even d deep tinz of God. Do u ve a problem wit ur undastanding?

The holy spirit searches right??

Why does the holy spirit need to search the deep things of God??I thought the holy spirit is God that already knows everything....

Why the need to search for knowledge when you have it all??

Its like going to school when you are school itself.....

Think bro........

Ubenedictus: hahaha, put young and all other translations in parrallel and compare, u will see that young didnt interprete is context that is y it is like a lone dog.

And please tell me in what context some translations rendered matthew 18:26??

The trinity dogma is your problem.....

Ubenedictus: hahaha, thank u 4 helping me, Jesus was adored, well put.

Please explain why on earth would the angels literally worship Jesus as if Jesus was there GOD.......is Jesus the God of the angels in the heavens??

How many times do I have to tell you that Jesus is equally called a morning star like the rest of the morning stars in the heavens.....

Now it seems to be killing you that other translations used the right expression like ""adore"" and ""bow""..........

The angels aint trinitarians....are they??

You think the angels foolishly worship a 3 in 1 God like you and your colleagues??

Ubenedictus: did u miss wen d bible said he knows all tinz? Open ur eyes.

and where did u see dis? D words were in d past tense, go bact to skul.


it is already debunking ur heretic stance
are u with ur brains? Back at u. Even though my mum and i are equally humans does that mean i shuldnt obey her? Equality accding to nature doesnt advocate disobedience

i dnt xpect it to make sense 2 u, u have dulled ur brains.

it mean d fada and son equally posses d Godhood state and nature, that is d meaning, equality in nature and essence.

this is stupid, do u have d human nature and attributes all by yourself? Does d fact dat u recieved d human nature nd attributes from ur parents make u any less human? Do display silly reasoning pls!

Still on the co equality issue abi??

Who gave the son Godhood??

Would the son even be considered as a God if the Father didn't bestow it on Him??

Your head barely thinks anymore......

Tell me one thing that Jesus possesses that wasn't given to Him...........

The moment your slow thinking brain thinks for a moment about this fact you won't equate Jesus to his God and Father......

How would u equate one who recieves from the all powerful Yahweh??

Why on earth would Jesus receive anything from a co -equal??

Jesus is suppose to be having all the power from eternity as u claim...but NO...

He waited to be given......

Rich4god: Seriously, i just cant stop laughing at the way Ijawkid and co understands xtianity...

Lol.....

Oboy na so o........

No be for our front wey churches don begin sanction gay marraige??

When persons who profess christianity can't tell when a rite is wrong or not.......

Imagine somebody saying the holy spirit will even endorse sango festival that is merged with christianity....SMH!!!!!!!

Then what actually is wrong or right??

oiseworld: and soo what ??
We are the decision makers for ourselves through the holyspirit.
What so ever we decree on earth is decreed in heaven, what we loose on earth is loosed in heaven. This is power given to us by our father and God.

And we choose to celebrate the birth of the giver of that right on the 25th of dec. We can still adopt more days for more christian celebrations, be it oduduwa day or sango day.
Na my papa make/get the day.

Ces fini.

Do u hear yourself??

Do u give a damn about even what Christ thinks??


Because of self gratification you guys have adopted everything into christianity....

SMH!!!!!...

Then what is the essence of christianity when @ the end of the day we are so submerged into the world??

What seperates one who follows christ and from one who doesn't??

oiseworld: useless jehovah withness people !!

If you don't want to celebrate christmas good for you, miserable set of people. Soo when ever you hear christmas its the sun god dat comes to ur mind? Let it be to u as u want it. People who lack the spirit of God, the teacher of all things.
No different from the pagans themselves.

We have the liberty as christians to choose,convert,use any day for the celebration of our God. Its part of our right as christians to choose freely, so don't go muddling tins up with your lack of biblical cohorence and understanding.

We aint forcing nobody not to celebrate xmas....


You can do what you like....

You can adopt sango,oduduwa and egbesu festivals and add Christ to it and celebrate.....

Na ona sabi......

italo: Are you kidding me?! Jacobs marriages should serve as a blueprint for Christian marriages?! The man married FOUR women. He married TWO SISTERS and their SERVANTS. Perhaps you should ask plappville if she would accept her husband marrying her sister and their maids. Though I'm pretty sure her husband won't want that. If they're as dumb as her, they'll kill him with stupidity. Jacob's marriage looks more like a muslim marriage to me. Moreover, Jacob wasn't a Christian, never married in a church and he never asked for his own parents consent. Or did he?

Jesus attended a wedding, but it wasn't in a Church.

So you are still yet to show me from the Bible where:

A christian funeral ceremony was held.

A christian asked for his parents' consent to marry.

Jesus said we needed to get a divorce certificate.

A marriage was held in a church.

If you cannot find these in the Bible, then you are a PAGAN!

it is in the law of moses that a certificate of divorce be gotten for persons who divorced on grounds that are legal in Gods eyes::::...

Jesus did also added to that in matthew 19:9 that divorce should be only on the ground of fornication..

And as regards a shursh marraige i only said that to make u laugh.....

Na him make i been ask you wether you wan marry.....

We know Jesus attended a marriage ceremony.....the Jews had there way of arranging there marraiges,but definitly those marraiges were handled accoding to the law.......

And in terms of funeral what is your problem!??

The Jews attended funerals and weddngs .....

So whats your problem??

Oh i remember.

All this is to exhonorate your stance on christmas celebration....

Sorry bro your xmas celebration has no origin with the scriptures,with the Jews nor with early christians who had there hearts intact.....

Marraige,funeral, all were done by early servants of God,but christmas no where to be found..

gbrookes02: In playing your silly game, how can you say Jesus is not Yahweh remember we can all make up idioms without any scholar support at all.

you have got no where to run bro....

Apart from john 2:19 which does have an explanation;open just another scripture where it says it was a half or percentage of Jesus who ressurected another part of Jesus.....you in effect has just told us that Jesus didnt really die and was ressurected...meaning we were scammed by Jesus....

Please open....all other scriptures say the Father did ressurect Jesus but u say its Jesus who literally ressurected himself....you even went ahead to say Jesus is Yahweh(heresy).......

Be humble enough to let the bible take d lead....

The trinity veil has completely finished you....

And you still have not scripturally proven if Jesus now knows when the end will come....

Now you have said Jesus is Yahweh then it means Jesus suffered from amnesia not to have known when the end will come,or Jesus lied...

Choose one......

gbrookes02: Based on your silly game we can all make up idioms remember anything goes we just say something is an idiom and guess what it is.

look @ facts that you failed to consider....

1...Yahweh is 1 Yahweh and not 2(deuteronomy 6;4)...if only you knew this fact you wont be arguing here like a child......

2....other translations i quoted went straight ahead to say ""and Yahweh made it rain fire and sulphur on sodom and gomorrah"" so that sheeples like you can understand,but still you are lost.....

3....other examples in the hebrew scriptures prove such writings to be true when someone refers somthing to oneself....
With all this evidence it stamped that Yahweh is 1 and not divided into 2.....

In your case the premise on which you were arguing was totally flawed...no scriptures...
1::you said it was only Jesus' human nature that died and was ressurected....no scripture supports this heresy.....not one scripture....but you build your whole argument around it and hold on to it...

2....the rest scriptures in the bible proves that it was the Father who ressurected Jesus as a result of Jesus endurance and faith right down till death and not Jesus himself::::....
Instead of aligning scriptures and adjusting your view you are there stuck in an enigma you really love.....

3.....you were the same child who held on to zechariah 12:10 earlier on when this discussion started:::but you later saw the folly behind your understanding of that verse....

You fail to understand that scriptures explains itself.....

All i need from you is;;;;;;;show us one verse from the bible that says it wasnt 100 percent Jesus that died and was ressurected,but a percentage of Jesus....since you have made Jesus into percentage loss and gain,open just one scripture to prove it.....

If you want scriptures that will prove to you that Yahweh and Jesus are 2 seperate beings they are plenty....since you want to be spoon fed i'll help you...because we are @ a junction where you have to hold on to the Fact that Jesus is Yahweh just to be continually stuck in this pagan doctrine called the trinity.....even your fellow trinitarians no go gree with you sef......

gbrookes02: Because Jesus was Yahweh it was impossible for Him to sin, if He had sin that would of meant He was a mere man thus couldn't raised Himself from the dead.

Lol.....

so Jesus came programmed without a free will abi??

But it was very much possible for Yahweh who is Jesus as u claim to die and be killed....??


you are one hell of a clown....

gbrookes02: You have not been able to answer it. But let me just play for a while your all silly little game for a while to show your all the silly game can be used against you all too, and why you all don't make sense. Here it goes, when it says "Yahweh who raised him up..." really means Jesus who is Yahweh eaised Himself up it is just a greek idiom for say that. You see how silly your game is in playing with words if it is valid against me it is also valid against you too.

Jesus is not Yahweh you olodo......

New International Version (©1984)
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud
voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"--which
means, "My God, my God, why have you
forsaken me?"
.......

Which percentage of Jesus was making this prayer and to who??

You are just a silly trinitarian.....

Who was Jesus crying to??

gbrookes02: Who reputable Hebrew scholar agree with you that Genesis 19:24 is an IDIOM, name me one if you can? You are making up idioms out of thin air. One of the Angels that talked to Abraham on the earth is referred to as Yahweh since no man has seen The Father at anytime then that mean The Angel who was Yahweh on the earth was not The Father but The Son therefore Genesis 19:24, 29 "Then the Lord (Yahweh on earth) rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord (Yahweh) out of the heavens" is not an idiom. Thats a reason why no reputable Hebrew scholar agrees with you.

Because the §cholars Ù copy and pasted from are hard hearted trinitarians you will never get the point....

Why on earth do you think 1 kings 8:1 was rendered that way if it wasn't fashioned in the same pattern as genesis 19:24...??

Its a trend in the hebrew scriptures...

Besides newer translations has made things easier by translating genesis 19:24 this way....

New Living Translation (©2007)
24.Then the LORD rained down fire and burning
sulfur from the sky on Sodom and Gomorrah.

..............

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
24.Then the LORD made burning sulfur and fire
rain out of heaven on Sodom and Gomorrah.
........
Good News Translation (GNT)
24 Suddenly the LORD rained burning sulfur
on the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah

Loo“ up those translations....

They had to put it straight so that people like your type that likes to argue stubbornly would read ans understand....

gbrookes02: Jesus healed the woman through her faith which the woman had during her sickness, don't forget that.

On the basis of God's word and His power all the dead would be ressurected.

Also apart from Gods power that will ressurect you,you faithfulness and constant endurance before your death will also be responsible for your ressurection...

God will not ressurect everybody to everlasting life....and you know that......

Only those who did ""the will of my Father"" as Jesus said will see life.....

gbrookes02: Jesus healed the woman through her faith which the woman had during her sickness, don't forget that.


On the basis of God's word and His power all the dead would be ressurected.

Jesus's wo®ds sounded like it was the womans faith that healed her alone...but like you truely answered it was Jesus who really. Healed her...

So on what bÀsis will those who will be ressurected in the future be ressurected??



Now let's imagine if Jesus did not obey Yahweh to the end but allowed satans temptations get to Him(ofcus Jesus had the free will to obey his Father or not)...would he have been ressurected??

Answer me.......

gbrookes02: No it means while Jesus was dead He raised Himself up from the dead. Your twisting of words is most amazing, and you are talking about trinitarians been illogical you are most amazing.

Lol......

Please apart from this verse you are holding on to with all your life which other verse says Jesus raised himself up??....

Scriptures answer scriptures......

All the rest verses say it was Yahweh who raised him up...

Besides who was Jesus crying and praying to,to save Him??

Himself abi??

gbrookes02: Yes I can do something for myself, and to myself, I can even take something from myself, I will give you that much, I have said that in past posts. What is impossible is me doing something from myself. Who reputable Hebrew scholar agree with you that Genesis 19:24 is an IDIOM, name me one if you can? You are making up idioms out of thin air.

Oh doing something from you®self......

Tunde (who is the ceo of a company) withdrew money from Tunde's account(the same. Tu.nde who is a ceo)...

Are you seeing the idiom once more.....

1 kings 8:1 gives you a similar scenario but you are being stubborn not to see it......

So it would have made more sense to you if ""Yahweh called all the morning stars to Yahweh""??

You get serious problem....

gbrookes02: The person had faith during their sickness that Jesus said healed her. Did Jesus also had faith during the time of His death that raised Him up? This would be the proper anology.

Wait now...

So what exactly healed the woman??

Her or Jesus??

Jesus had to endure to the end in order to be ressurected......

That is the point....

You think in the future Yahweh won't ressurect those who lived faithful lives...??

On what basis do you think persons would be ressurected??

What woÙld make you ""=gbrookes02"" confident that you would be rssurected after death??

gbrookes02: Jesus playing a part in ensuring his ressurection is not the samething as Jesus been able to"" take it up"" from death since according to you all Jesus was just a mere man.

How was Jesus able to"" take it up"" from death if He was just a man??

That i§ what it means when it says Jesus can take ""it up""......

Jesus petitioned and prayed with ""cries and tears"" to the one who could save him from death....

I believe Jesus was crying to (himself) abi..??.



You are just been stubborn.....

gbrookes02: At best you have not read the article properly because it would be blasphemous to call himself God if he is not God such as Gen 31:11, 13; Exodus 3:2-6.

"The passage, however, that really clinches this remarkable identification is Exodus 23:20-23. There God promises to send his angel ahead of the children of Israel as they go through the desert. The Israelites were warned that they must obey and not rebel against this angel. The reason was a stunning one: "Since my Name is in him." God would never share his memorial name with anyone else, for Isaiah 42:8 advised that he would never share his glory with another. Thus the name of God stands for himself. And when a person is said to have the name of God in him, that person is God!

Only God can forgive sin, yet this angel did the same in Exodus 23:21

Finally, this angel commanded and received worship from Moses (Ex 3:5) and Joshua (Josh 5:14). Angels were not to receive worship. When John attempted to worship an angel in Revelation 19:10; 22:8-9, he was corrected quickly and told not to do it."

If The Angel is some passages is not God then how do you explain the above information?


How does you answer explains Genesis 19:24, 29 "Then the Lord (Yahweh on earth) rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord (Yahweh) out of the heavens" since a person can't do something from theirself?

You are still quoting genesis 19;24??

Oh this my freind has comprehension problems.....

SMH!!!!!!!

Its a hebrew idiom that speaks of a person doing something in reference to himself......

Do you know the meaning of IDIOM??

Let me give an example:::::

""gbrookes02"" bought oranges for ""gbrookes02"

Now that's a hebrew idiom.....

U still dey confused??

gbrookes02: The Father raised Jesus, Jesus raised Himself, and The Spirit raised Him up from the dead

How could Jesus have carried out God's command to "" take it up"" if He was just a man?? Answer the question.

Please let's read luke 8:48....

New International Version (©1984)
Then he(Jesus) said to her, "Daughter, your ""faith"" has
healed you. Go in peace."


From the above verse who or what would you say healed that woman??the woman herself or Jesus??

Answer this question then I'll tell u something important.....

gbrookes02: A command is not a promise pick up you dictionary.

How was Jesus able to"" take it up"" if He was just a man??

By being obedient right down till death.....

Jesus played a part in ensuring his ressurection....

And that was despising shame,and ridicule and also undergoing a painful death........

The same way we have every reason to be ressurected after we die if we faithfully serve God right down to the end.........

Jesus had Faith in his Father and endured trials......even during the last hour when Jesus told his Father ""if it is your will let this cup pass""

The Father ressurected Jesus......

Read galatians 1:1 to see the Fact...

New Living Translation (©2007)
This letter is from Paul, an apostle. I was not
appointed by any group of people or any human
authority, but by Jesus Christ himself and by
""God the Father"", who raised Jesus from the
dead.
....

Jesus' faithfullness and obedience was responsible for his ressurection.......

Read hebrews 5:

7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he
offered up prayers and petitions with fervent
""cries and tears"" to the"" one ""who could save him
from death, and he was heard because of his
reverent submission. 8 Son though he was, he
learned obedience from what he suffered
.........

Do you see clearly now??

Read verse 7 of the hebrews 5 that is up there.....

Make no mistake my bro.........

It was Yahweh who ressurected Jesus,based on Jesus' faithfullness ,endurance and constant submission....

Boomark: English is also a problem is also a problem when it comes to defending trinity blindly.

Why did you even agree that Solomon is the same person as king Solomon? Or don't you think that Solomon could be a servant in the house of king Solomon? You disappoint me.

Context? You don't have anything to say. According to what you imagined as stupidity that Ijawkid steals from Ijawkid, is it not also stupid for you to imagine that Ijawkid brought a wife to Ijawkid.

Start today to believe Yahweh is one Yahweh not three,

My brother help me tell am.....

For the fact trinitarians hold on to genesis 19:24 so tight without even reading the bible completely to get a full understanding ,shows the spirit behind supporting the trinity dogma.........


Now I even understand why 1 john 5:7 was desperately formed to support the trinity even when it was never in the originals....

Desperation to prove the trinity....