₦airaland Forum

Goshen360: See brother Frosbel, you are the very one that wants to ripe Jesus off his Deity. My point and argument with you is that, the scripture calls Jesus Christ and some translation may have mislead us BUT the wise thing for us to do as Christians is to leave issues like this the way it is. When you said, Jesus was called god in Heb.1:8, then we can also use same logic to say the Father too is god in John 1:1-2 and some other references where we have Jesus and the Father TOGETHER being referred to as God but rendered different by different translations. This is my argument with you.

Goshen I just have one sincere question to ask you.....be very sincere with your answer....

Which GOD do you worship??

Or who is your GOD??

Goshen360: Okay, we wan to start translation wahala now abi........I don't want to enagage in translation issues BUT there is a study I did that gave me the conclusion that Jesus wasn't firstBORN of creatURES BUT of creatIONS.......I know where your own sect belongs on this matter as it is what your sect teach. We can go on and on as to translation wahala but there is a translation that shows the meaning of the creatION being talked about. We will get there soon, if we continue.

Make we no even Go far sef to argue.....

Jesus is called Gods FIRst BORN...

How you wan take translate am??

Abeg talk........

Apart from the fact that Jesus is the"" First born of"" all creation he is also Gods own 1st Born.......

Goshen it is crystal clear o.......

Like I had said......for the 30 times the expression ""1st born of"" appeared in the holy scriptures and when directed to living beings/thing it always had a constant meaning....

The trinity would never let that meaning be established......

If your definition of ""First born of"" Is different from the bibles view point then I don't know what to do........

If your definition of ""first born of"" means supreme of pre eminence ALONE,then you can as well try apllying that to Jesus being Gods FIRST BORN.....

And try to find out if those expressions can be used for the FATHER and the holy spirit(that's if the holy spirit is a person and also GOD)

And don't also forget that Jesus is also the image of the invincible GOD......

These are expressions that can only apply to one who owes his or her existence to the almighty GOD......

Goshen360: I have told you, forget about trinity or no trinity, concentrate on what the bible says. Is Jesus firstBORN of creation or creatURES, which one I believe you know the different between creatION and creatURES right .....You know say we never start dey open bibeli mimo......

1....First born of every creature nko??KJV......

2....First born of all creation....(Other translations).

3....Gods 1st born.........

Goshen try to look into those 3 lines and tell me what you don't understand......

See the definition of creation...

cre·a·tion
[kree-ey-shuh n]

-n.
1. the act of producing or causing to exist; the act of creating; engendering.
2. the fact of being created.
3. something that is or has been created.
4. the original bringing into existence of the universe by God.
5. the world; universe.
6. creatures collectively.
7. an original product of the mind, esp. an imaginative artistic work: the creations of a poetic genius.
8. a specially designed dress, hat, or other article of women's clothing, usually distinguished by imaginative or unique styling: the newest Paris creations.


............

Fot the fact that Jesus is ""FIRST BORN of"" all creation of every creature shows clearly that Jesus is part of point 6 from the dictionary meaning I just listed....

Besides frosbel just defined who a 1st born is with regards to family and living beings.....

frosbel: It appears that with a lot of false doctrine these days, Almighty Yahweh has been relegated to a being who just sits on his throne while the real GODs Jesus and the Holy Spirit do the actual work, receive the praise and adoration from the saints.

In fact one false prophet recently suggested that we pray to the Holy Spirit , what !!! Where is this in the bible ?

Why has Father GOD the Almighty , our creator , the initiator of our salvation , the ultimate lover of mankind, the one who created MAN in his image been relegated to the background ? If SATAN is not behind this trick who else is.

Let us give praise to Jehovah. This is the ONE who has no beginning and no end, the one who made us in his image, the one who was grieved at the sin of ADAM but instead of sentencing him to perpetual life in misery , subjected him to death that he may grant him true life in righteousness.

This is the true GOD that JESUS came to reveal , the King of the universe, the creator of everything that exists, the one that NO man can see, the one who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light , the elohim of life, the father of Lord Jesus, the giver of his spirit for the defeat of evil and exaltation of righteousness, as Jesus said this GOD alone is good, there is none like unto him, among the gods who can be compared with him , he has no equal.

God our dear GOD and Father the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob is ONE and TRUE GOD , to him alone belongs our prayer, praise and worship.

Saints worship Yahweh in Spirit and Truth, thank him for JESUS , thank him for his spirit, thank him for sustaining the universe and all that is in it, thakn him for eternal life, thank him for his love , kindness mercy , goodness and justice.

Let us stop relegating Yahweh to the background as the devil wants us to.


Exodus 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

Job 37:23 The Almighty is beyond our reach and exalted in power; in his justice and great righteousness, he does not oppress.

Psalm 104:2 He wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him

1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

James 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

Perfect exposition....

Many persons need to direct there minds back to the one and only true God whom Jesus came to reveal........

Jesus did pre-exist b4 is descension to earth...

Like I've always said and also supported by the scripture,Jesus is Gods 1st born.....

he(Jesus) is less than his God and Father but greater than the angels and all humans.....

That's how it is my bro frosbel.......

musKeeto: A TRUE christian doesn't have the sin nature. He's a new creature. He CAN NOT sin..

I don forget who talk this thing o.......

Try remind me.........

obadiah777: NEITHER MUSLIMS OR CHRISTIANS WILL MAKE HEAVEN. JAMES 1 VS 27

Lol.....

Na him be say I must go heaven o.......

Goshen360: At your honour my dearest sister, I will start the exposition on Hebrews chapter 7.

And I will add some points when you start your exposition.......

:-)

Ubenedictus: and it also says christ has no begining and end. I have noting to prove. U are d person wu shuld b telling me y u tink christ has a bging wen my bible says he doesnt.

Christ has a God and Father......and he is the ""beginning of"" Gods creation.......

Evidence borku well well.......

So find another exegesis to hebrews 7'....

Because Jesus has a Father.....he was caused by his Father......

Ubenedictus: this agruement is a strawman, a logical falacy called arguement from silience. Unless you can show that the scripture say 'lazarus had no story' then you are making an illogical arguement and the burden of proof rest on u to show that lazarus had no story. And even if lazarus didnt have a story it wouldnt even have an effect in this arguement.
Peace

Now the point of the witnesses is that until ressurection occurs,nobodys soul roves about to heaven or a burning furnace.....

Even Jesus had to spend 3days in hell(sheol) b4 he was ressurected.....his soul as being taught by many today didn't run out to some place....he experienced ressurection........

That is what the bible teaches........

The bible teaches ressurection not immortality of the soul....

Jesus says in the end many will hear his voice and rise up......why not wait till that time rather than teach that mans soul is immortal.....that's why the questions surrouding lazarus's death and ressurection arises......

You see the point??

Ubenedictus: where is it in scriptures. My bible say phi2:6 show dat he only took d position of a servant wen he came to save us.

where is it in d bible?
no! U made no point. I didnt see where it said Jesus was created. Where is it?

Please read isaiah 53 and see that God in advance said his holy servant would be sent to redeem mankind.....Jesus has always been and will always be a servant of God....

Even Jesus himself confirms this fact @ matthew 12: 16-18....

16 Yet He warned
them not to make Him known, 17 that it might
be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the
prophet, saying:
18 “Behold! """My Servant"" whom I have chosen,
My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased!
I will put My Spirit upon Him,
And He will declare justice to the Gentiles.


Jesus has long been Yahwehs servant.......

Learn to understand that and the trinity will leave your brain...

Also read acts 3:13......

New International Version (©1984)
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God
of our fathers, has glorified his ""servant"" Jesus.
You handed him over to be killed, and you
disowned him before Pilate, though he had
decided to let him go.
.....

Past,present and forever Jesus remains Yahwehs servant....

There's no escaping from this clear fact....

Ubenedictus: d body returns to dust, d spirit to God wu gave it. Is that simply enough?

Which spirit??

After your definition of spirit try finding out of the spirit is ""SOUL""

*dhtml:
The aim of this post is to try explain that when people die, they are in a state of "sleep" until judgement/ressurection. We know that when a person dies, the body returns to the dust and the spirit/breath of life returns to God.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it."

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward , for the memory of them is forgotten.

To the thief on the cross, Jesus said - "Verily I say unto thee, today you will be with me in paradise" Mark 23:43.

First, for Christ to have meant He was going to heaven at His death would mean He is saying something contrary to the rest of the Bible.
Second, on Sunday morning he said to Mary, "Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father" John 20:17. Jesus did not go to heaven Friday at His death. He was asleep in the grave, awaiting His resurrection. - Some people said after his death, he descended into hell and took the keys of life and death from satan.


The Death and Resurrection of Lazarus

What about Lazarus who was sick, but died before Christ made it to his home? He died and was resurrected several days later.

John 11:11-14, 23-24 "'Our friend Lazarus sleepeth, but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.' Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death; but they thought that he had spoken of taking rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, 'Lazarus is dead.'...Jesus saith unto her [Martha], 'Thy brother shall rise again.' Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day"
Notice Jesus called death a sleep and Martha knew that Lazarus would sleep until the last day of this earth. Also, did Lazarus ever speak of being in heaven?


When Samuel Consulted A Medium
I Samuel 28:11-13 "...bring up Samuel for me....What did you see? And the woman said to Saul, 'I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth.' Notice here how the woman sees the spirit came out of the earth, not from heaven. Samuel was actually asleep in his grave.

My brother you are so correct....

Many will come here and argue that the soul is immortal,but from the bible the reverse is the case...........

People don't read there bibles,they follow pagan traditions....

Ubenedictus: i didnt deny anything, the fada is d 'cause' of the son, that doesnt make d son 'created', he was begoten.
my bible didnt say so. I cant find wherd d bible says God can only create, he cant beget.

that isnt in d bible

where is it in d bible? What i can find is begotten, i cant find created.

Then you are on a long thing.....

Since God no marry wife Jesus was created.....

And from the dictionary I've shown you the numerous definitions of begotten...........

Pro create,create,produce,cause....etc......

Many of us theists have been trying to convince the atheist that the universe had a ""cause""....

How else was the universe caused if not created??

Except God marry o b4 you go fit escape the truth wey dey right in front of You......

Jesus is called the ""1st born of"" all creation.....for the 30 times the expression ""first born of"" occured in the scriptures and been applied to living things it meant one and the same thing........

It meant the person under consideration was part of the family of those who was caused...

E.g...

##1st borns of the egyptians were themselves egyptians but the 1st of the group ....

##1st borns of the isrealites were themselves isrealites but the 1st .........

##1st borns of the wild beast were themselves animals but the 1st of it....

From the scriptures Jesus being the 1st born of Gods creations clearly means Jesus is part of creation,but the 1st of it........

Truth is standing right in front of you...

Ubenedictus: i wasnt argueing that point.

being "servant" is a position he took for us phil 2:6, as for subjection, he has by relation always been subject to the fada.

he is head over all things, by thing d scriptures means created things. GOD isnt among "all things

by d very fact dat d fada is fada that means by relation d son is 'subject'.

The son remains a servant for all eternity....

From past ,present, and forever the son remains a servant of Yahweh.....even before Jesus' descension to earth he was Yahwehs. Holy servant........

........

You saying Jesus wasn't created by God is like saying Jesus wasn't ressurected by God.....

1st born applied to Jesus in all respect shows Jesus was part of Gods works and powers,but he was 1st....

Was it ressurection??Jesus was the 1st. To be ressurected from the dead,while Jesus became the agent through which God would ressurect millions....

Was it creation??Jesus was the 1st thing or person God created ,while he(Jesus) after been the 1st of Gods creative works became the agent through which God created all other things or persons....

Don't you get the point??

Ubenedictus: d word 'other' is not there, u added it. U are trying to make d word of God say what it doesnt say.
U are introducing words into scriptures.
yeah

this isnt in the bible

thru him was everything made. The bible says nothing was made but by him. U are contradicting d bible, unles u are sayin he contradicted himself
my bible didnt say Jesus was created

Jesus exist because of d fada, that doesnt make him created. I exist cos of my dad dat doesnt mean my dad created me, no i he gave gave birth to me.

....

If u deny that God isn't the cause of Jesus' existence then we have to settle that through Jesus we didn't get life....God is the cause of everything....he kick started Jesus's existence.....the way u try to dodge from this lucid truth bewilders me.....would you have existed if your Father didn't beget you.....now that is humans who marry and re produce....

.

Your dad pro-created or re-produced you...

In Gods case creation is the only option.....bcause God did not marry any woman...use your head pan my catholic bro.....

1 corinthians says God created not give birth like a woman would beget a child......

Creation is the only option my bro.....Jesus was created....the evidence is in front of you.....Jesus is the 1st born son of God......

Jesus is the 1st of Gods creative works...........

Ubenedictus: it is simply used as a conjunction and doesnt necesary imply b4 and after. See link [url]http://www.academia.edu/1040859/The_implications_of_until_in_English_and_Greek

No! His dominion over us has no end while He is subject to the Father and the Father remains all in all(no exceptions). Can you fault that? his dominion has been that he is all in all, that dominion has no end, he will alway b over all creature becos he created them all, so is the fada wu Jesus is subordinate to by relation.
Good. Out of the Fathers substance He came be. Just like out your fathers substance you came to be. If you want, sumersault the meaning it must click. sumersault what?

everything trinititous is against the word of God.
mtcheeewwww

So now you understand that Christs dominion does not include the Father abi??

U understand that Christ been over all excludes the Father who Christ himself is a servant and subject to abi??...

So I hope that you can now rationally conclude that Christ is head over all other things abi??

Why??

Because he is subject to some 1 who is God and Father over Him.....

Ubenedictus: since wen does d word all mean "other"? Liar! Try again

You should be asking why I put"" other"" na....

The answers have been staring right @ you.....

Jesus is the 1st born of God.......

Jesus is the 1st of Gods creative works.....

Let's read 1 corinthians 8:6

New Living Translation (©2007)
But we know that there is only one God, the
Father, ""who created everything"", and we live
for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus
Christ, through whom God made everything and
""through"" whom we have been given life.


......

Let me bring out some pertinent points...

1....1 .God who created everything(including Jesus)...

2....Jesus through whom God created everything(excluding Christ himself who God created 1st)....

...........

I had quoted a scripture in John. Which shows God is the source and cause of Jesus' life....

John 6:57......
New Living Translation (©2007)
I live because of the living Father who sent
me; in the same way, anyone who feeds on me
will live because of me.


God is the source of Jesus' life....Jesus exists and live because of God the Father.....

The minute u realize this truth the better for you....

That is Jesus speaking there.....

Ubenedictus: http://em.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arche the bible says that all things were created by christ, how can he wu created ALL thing be created? Did he create himself? My bible say he is d arche of God's creation, and i believe, he is the source of creation.

All(other) things were created through Christ........

and your bible explains what being the arkhe of some else's work means...

That is what you have been running away from....

Jesus is the beginning of Gods creative works.....

The truth is right in front of you......

I think 1 corinthians 8:5-6 would solve your problem...

Ubenedictus: is "arkhe 'of'" a greek phase? Since wen did "of" become a greek word?

wen interpreted that simply mean Jesus is the source of Gods creation, he is the source. That is why d bible says "by him all things are created"

does that make animals human?

sorry, u hv been d person playing blind, i cant find any scholar that interprete arche as created. Where is ur source?

the fada is also source of creation so yes that is why he says "im the bgining..."

if by "firstborn" preeminence is meant then yes the fada can b called the "firstborn of creation"

no! Because d fada wasnt begotten, just d was u cant call d son "unbegotten" u cant call d fada "begotten"

u didnt ask questions like "does scripture call d fada___? U asked "cam d fada be called___? And i answered u accding. D question didnt need passages.

Your definition of first born doesn't ryhme with all the definitions and meanings of ""first born"" when applied to living beings....

And mind you it was through Jesus all other things were created(with the Father excluded who is the source of life)

I just quoted scriptures that used the expression ""beginning of"" when referenced to living beings....

Reuben was called the ""beginning of"" the strength and power of jacob....and also the 1st born of Jacob.......

Jesus is called the first born son of God.....

The truth is staring right @ you......

I want you to compare scriptures and see the truth.....not running away from truths......

That's all I've done....you do the same...

The reason why I asked::: ""can the Father be called" is because He(the Father) can never be called such titles as ""1st born"" or ""the beginning of the creation of God""....

Its an impossibilty.....

If you want to dare the scriptures you can start quoting to counter my questions.....

Jesus had a beginning .........he is the beginning of Gods creation.....and Gods 1st born....

If you can apply those titles to the Father then we can start talking....

And on the animal issue....:::::::::

Animals and humans are both flesh and blood...that's my basic point.....we are all living souls.......

And so I stand on my point that all living beings in heaven are spirits.....

Ubenedictus: did u interprete d sentence "beging of creatn of Gd"? No u only interpreted d word bgining and u said it implys a creature, are u denying u said dat?


another lie u only translated d word 'bging' and u said it mean creature, is d fada a creature?

amimals all have flesh and blood dat doesnt mean animals are humans does it?

and dat doesnt make dem possesor of d infinite nature of God.

u are simply dodging, just answer my question u didnt interprete "begining of" in greek, did u? No! U didnt. U interprete only "begining" and u said it implies that Jesus is a creature. The same word is used by d fada, answer me does it also mean that d fada is a creature or are u making an exception? What u wrote above is nonesense

oh now i see why you are confused....

My definition was on ""arkhe of"" ....not just arkhe alone....

Oya back to business....

The point is Jesus is the ""beginning of"" of the creation of God....

"beginning of" is the point i'm bringing out.....

And ofcus animals are flesh and blood...arent they??

Both we and animals are souls...flesh and blood...abi animals na flesh and water??

All persons in heaven are spirits....there is no dodging this bro.....

All the scriptures i quoted as my basis for this discussion used the expression ""beginning of""::::

read the verses i quoted from genesis and deuteronomy......

It seems u've been playing blind

So I'll ask the same questions again....and this time listen well ::::

1,,..Can the Father also be called the ""beginning of"" the creation of God??

2...Can the Father be called the 1st born of all creation??

3...Can the Father be called the 1st born of God??

Start answering with scriptures......

Ubenedictus: at times i really ask myself y i discuss these issues with you, becos u just close ur eyes to scripture and find a way to claim u are right and d other is wrong. Weldone.
Dat chapter of heb in case u didnt notice was to protray melchisedek as a "type", "figure" and "prefigurement" of christ. By explaning melchisedek he showed what d only son of d fada is. And one of d words he used was "without begining of days" u cant go and argue with d bible for all i care.

nope....infact in hebrews 5 Jesus was to be a high priest in the manner of melchizedek....

In either way u look at it from your blind trinitarian point of view melchizedek too had no beginning....

So i want u to prove melchizedek had a beginning,then we can talk...

Hebrews plainly says melchizedek had no beginning and end....

Ubenedictus: jn1:1, heb7:3. He was there before the begining. What is before d begining has no begining of day nor end.

hey....

That means melchizedek has no beginning too....abi??

That means melchizedek was God the 4th.....agreed??

You better start finding the right exegesis to hebrews because we all know Jesus has a Father and God...

Incase u've forgotten start remembering...

Boomark: I asked you whose image He was since you said He has been existing along side the Father from eternity.

The time i was born is the my father begot me and that the time i bore his image.

Like you said up there that Jesus was born b4 time, that makes Him the beginning according to scriptures.

Am happy you are now getting the gist.

i'm still waiting for ubenidictus to open the scriptures and tell us where it says Jesus existed b4 time

frosbel: So you don't know what image means , how sad !

how can the image of the invincible almighty God still be the almighty God....

Trinitarians are just jejune.....

Ubenedictus: simply put, a being with briliance

is the Father a morning star too??

Mr ubenidictus

Ubenedictus: it is hidden from the "high and mighty" but revealed to little children.

which children??

Mary worshippers abi??

Ubenedictus: that i repeat is a stupid question, it is like asking wu was bookmark b4 he was born?? JESUS WASNT BORN IN TIME HE WAS BORN B4 TIME.

it is now time for you to open the scriptures to show us that Jesus never had a beginning...

Oya start opening...

Dont just rant...open the scriptures.....

OLAADEGBU: The Trinity In Ephesians

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Ephesians 4:4-6)

Paul's letter to the church at Ephesus is surely one of the most profoundly doctrinal--yet intensely practical--books of the Bible, and it is not surprising that the doctrine of the tri-une God breaks into his message so frequently. For example, note Ephesians 2:18: "For through [Christ] we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."

More often, however, it appears not in a succinct formula like this, but rather in inter-connected references to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, always implying that each is deity, but never that they are three different "gods." Paul prayed that "the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him" (Ephesians 1:17).

He also prayed "unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, . . . That He would grant you, . . . to be strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith" (Ephesians 3:14,16,17). Thus the believer is "filled with all the fulness of God" (v.19).

We are exhorted to "grieve not the holy Spirit of God, . . . even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you" (Ephesians 4:30,32). And "be filled with the Spirit; . . . Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 5:18,20).

There are others, but note especially our text, speaking of our unity in Him and His tri-unity in us. "There is . . . one Spirit . . . One Lord, . . . One God and Father of all, who is above all [i.e., the Father], and through all [the Son], and in you all [the Spirit]." All this is a magnificent mystery, but a wonderful reality! HMM

For more . . . .

was Jesus called God in the ephesians you just read??

There attributes oneness of God to the Father alone...

I still dont know if you have problems with understanding the scriptures....

Show me in that ephesians where it says "" and one GOd who is the Father ,son,and holy spirit"":.....

Its obvious you are so confused...

@ubenidictus...............when you are done with all your dodgings and acrobatics come back to tell me if the ,,,,;;;;

1:::the Father can be called or is called the 1st born of all creation or the 1st born of God??

2:::if the Father can also be called or be called the ""beginning of"" the creation of God:::....

If you cant then end this discussion....

Ubenedictus: sorry, are you blind? Did ur headache affect ur eyes? The verse the fada said "im the begining and the end" the word use was "arche", you said the word means "created" accding to you wherever arche appeared it means created so when d fada say he is d arche, does that mean he was created or are u making an exemption in ur porous and unfounded interpretation?

we are talking about "arche" and d fact dat u translated it as created. Ijaw answer me is d fada now created becos he is arche or are you making an exception?

u want to dodge just tell me since to u arche means created is the fada created? Iwill answer ur "firstborn" rant later, just answer me does arche means d fada was created?

the fada say "i am d arche" u said ''arche equals created" and i ask u is d fada creatd or are u making an execption?

you just exposed ur folly now tell me since "arche" equals created is the fada created?

i just brought scripture to explain ur rant about "arche" u said it means created i said it implies "source" so wen d fada says "im d begining..." he means im d source and wen christ is call in dat same book (rev) d "arche of creation" it means he is d source of creation. U implied that arche is "effect" so wen d bible says "arche of creation" u interprete is as it means he was created. Now i ask u d fada is also "d arche" does that mean he was also created? Or does ur interpretation have execption.

hahaha, u said u didnt use philosophy and arche means created and the bible says d fada is "arche". Who is the heretic? Let everyone judge wu is d heretic?


actually wen i came just now this is what i wanted to write. But i saw ur stupid interpretation i just couldnt help but show how u interpretation disgrace u.

hahaha, on earth u have, cow flesh, dog flesh cat flesh and all sorts of flesh even human flesh, does that mean d animals have human nature? D angels are spirit, after my death i will b a spirit, demons are also spirits alas evil spirits and God is spirit does that mean that d created, finite nature of d angels and demons is thesame as d uncreated and infinite nature of God? Just d way dat having flesh doesnt make animal posses human nature so also been spirits donot qualify the angels and demons to have the nature of God.
Only christ Jesus is said to have the fullness of that nature.

Shut up and listen......

Answer these questions...

1...Can we say that the Father is the beginning of the creation of God??

Did the Father say he ""is the beginning of the creation of God""??


U haven't answered that,your focusing on the word beginning alone....you have still not started thinking........

Till you answer the very question I'm asking you will always be deluded....

""BEGINNING of""....

That's what we are considering........

If you are blind to see that then na you sabi.......

And again all heavenly beings are spirits.....the more you try to run away from the fact the more you keep chasing shadows......

we know as humans that we are all flesh and blood....

but then we have different types of humans....

Fat,slim,muscular, etc....

But we are all flesh blood...

The basics is ::::all persons in heaven are spirits......

And please open a scripture where it says the Father is the ""beginning of"" Gods creation....

If you can't open it you better go hide your mary worshipping face ..........

F00028: it only means the "help" was from God. just because you ascribe an act to God it doesn't mean he personally did the action.

maybe in english it looks that way. but you must remember they didn't speak english.


correct me if am wrong but didn't the prophesy day he shall be called emmanuel? I dont recall reading anyone ever calling Jesus emmanuel.

You too get sense my bro......

I go buy you beer because of this your comment...

Simple english has become so ambiguous for trinitarians to grasp.....