₦airaland Forum

Enigma: I know what John 17:3 says and I repeat that the apostles called Jesus God e.g. Peter, Paul, Thomas, John, author of Hebrews.

Which God??

It escaped your memory that these same apostles called Jesus the high priest,mediator,servant,messanger,apostle of the one true God......

Put on your thinking caps and read john 17:3 over and over again.....

italo: Yes, satan is the god of this world.

Now I ask you. Is Jesus God or 'a god?'

Is satan GOD??

Enigma: Oh, and I repeat that the apostles called Jesus God e.g. Peter, Paul, Thomas, John, author of Hebrews.



PS some might have noticed my deliberate ordering of Thomas and John.

Please read john 17:3 and let it sink down.....

Listen to what Jesus himself had to say.....

If it would ever be of help to you.....

Enigma: Well, the apostles believed Jesus to be God and many of them said so in the Bible e.g. Peter, Paul, Thomas, John, the author of Hebrews and so on.

Surely, friend, you are not going to accuse them too of apostasy?

Which God??

Enigma: No my friend (and I mean friend genuinely nicely); your error is that you do not realise that I pointed to the original Hebrew.

In the original Hebrew: "Yahweh" = 'Lord' while "Elohenu" = 'our God';

You people really need to stop lying and maligning others and also deceiving and misleading other people.



EDIT addendum: and your reference to the RCC here is sheer nonsense; in any event I have been sticking to the NIV which is one of the two versions dictated by the rules of engagement of this thread.

How can Yahweh be equals to lord??

Is that what the hebrews told u??

How can you enigma say this??

So abraham who was called Lord by sarah was also Yahweh??

how can the original hebrew tetragrammaton mean Lord??

Eh enigma??

You and your catholic cohorts are the ones who have decieved people for so long.......

Did you just listen to the lie you wrote up there??

Equating the meaning of Yahweh with the title Lord......

Enigma: Very funny. Do you know of Charles Spurgeon? Quite a "revered" evangelical preacher; he used to smoke a cigar (or pipe; can't remember); anyway when some other Christians frowned at it, he told them he was "smoking for the glory of God".

Hahahahaha....lmao......

I might start smoking IGGBO and marijuana to the glory of God.....

Enigma: From http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/seeing-the-father-in-the-son-115/


Seeing the Father in the Son (1:15)
Sam Storms

How can one who was not created be ""the image" of another person??

How??

It means we were not created too.....

SMH!!!!!!!.....

Trinity delusion....

italo: I don't need to ask you what "a God" means. God is one; and "a God" means that God is more than one. You cannot hold those two positions. It is either God is ONE or Gods are more than one. If you have any other tricks, lies, forgery or manipulation that you can use to get out of this one you better come up with it so that people here will not think you are insane o.

Is Jesus God or 'a god?'




Yahweh (the Father), Jesus (the Son) and the Holy Spirit are ONE and the same Almighty God who we should worship.

There you go with the 3 god worship....

Why didn't you add mary to it??

To make it 4......

Read 1 corinthians 8:4-6 and think for a second......

And also john 17:3....if that will help you....

Enigma: ^^^ I really dislike your tone; and that is why I am usually reluctant to reply you and I think I will mostly keep to that policy.

Sorry sir...

I can't stand it when trinitarians try to make Yahweh equals with any1.....

That I hate........

Your still my lovely bro.....

Enigma: I'm afraid, it seems you do not understand the Bible; secondly, I'm afraid you need to learn to take your time to assimilate and understand things written e.g. what I wrote up there. You need to learn to be slow to speak until you understand.

Anyway, let me help your understanding on this one occasion: the point of my last post is that something that is an attribute demonstrating the suremacy of God the Father is also claimed by Jesus as demonstration of His own supremacy.

In other words both The Father and The Son are above all ----- together. Of course it must be so, since they are ONE; ONE GOD.

And it escaped your memory that the father is above the son.....??

Why did u dodge that??

The trinity caused it abi??

Learn to read the bible completely.....

1 corinthians 11:3 I quoted shulda answered your mysteries but you are so blind folded so as not see it....

When that John says the son is over all,does it include the Father??

Ask yourself that question.......does it??

Learn to make absolute conclusions not half baked........

Your conclusion on Yahweh and Jesus being over all is not complete...

Go further and say that""the Father is over Jesus""

Can't you say it??mr trinitarian....

1 corinthians 15:24-28....

1 Corinthians 15:24-28
New International Version (NIV)
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over
the kingdom to God the Father after he has
destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his
enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to
be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put
everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it
says that “everything” has been put under him,
it is clear that this does not"" include"" God
himself, who put everything under Christ.
28 When he has done this, then the Son
himself will be made"" subject"" to him who put
everything under him, so that God may be all in
all.


If you read this scripture and you are still obstinate then I don't know how to solve your enigma's anymore........

The trinity teaching has blinded you to the point of no return.....

If Jesus will hand over the kingdom that he was given and then be made subject to the Father for all eternity so that God(Yahweh) will be everything to everyone how then does it support your spurious stance that Jesus is one with the Father in been all over everything and everyone when that Jesus is subordinate to Yahweh....

Put on your thinking caps and embrace bible truths...

It was people like your types who were so stuboorn with the trinity dogma that they went around burning those who won't gulp this dogma on a stake........

Yahweh is the GOD and Father of Jesus can't you for once accept this glaring truth and live??......

You are @ it again trying to equate Jesus with Yahweh...that will only happen in your dreams not in the bible.....

Mtsheeew!!!!!!!

Yahweh is the only one who is absolutely above all.....

Yahweh is above Jesus,the angels,man,woman,animals and everything put together....

If your eyes can't see this then go for an eye check up....

truthislight: you made it sound as though it is a threat?

Meanwhile the scriptures are staring you in the face that Jesus is the first born of all "creation"

who should we listen to?
You or the bible?

See how you contradict the bible with out of context scripture!

Hebrews chapter 7 is talking about the priest hood of Jesus, that it is in the many of melchizedek not from father to son(without father and mother) and as such a direct appointment from God.

The reference of ETERNAL in this hebrews 7 is in reference to christ priest hood, how can you childishly attempt using it for trinity when we are not talking About priest Hood?

The maturity of reasoning of some of those in this forum is amazing.

If the bible contradict itself dont you think we should leave it?

*sigh*

Goshen will also have to agree that melchizedek doesn't have a beginning...

Infact melchizedek is the almighty ....

Enigma: Ah, one more thing for good measure.

Ephesians 4:4-6

John 3:31

Chei enigma oooo...

Is Jesus the Father??

I don tire for you o....

Do u really understand the bible??

You just read 1 corintians and still confused......

Who is Jesus above??

Who are the all in that john u quoted??

Does it include Yahweh??

1 corinthians you read c alls Yahweh the Father and God over all(all with Jesus included)....

Please read 1 corinthians 11:3 for more details......

Goshen360: I know what you are saying.....quote me and let's debate it. Am ready interested in this your Jesus was created stuff. By the time we finish when I come online, you will be flat on the floor with all your theology punctured..... . I got load of scriptures for you but am a bit strong due to the cold. Hewever, I will respond to you when I wake up. In fact, I will love to engage a debate with you on "Jesus was created or exist eternally" on a new thread if you don't mind, so I can openly expose you.

No wahala.........

I ready.......

You haven't still actually told me how Jesus is your brother......

Food for thought bro....

Enigma: Some are saying Jesus was (and is?) "a God"; or that Jesus was (and is?) a "deity"; or that Jesus was (and is?) "divine".

Well, the Bible easily dismisses that nonsense.

1. We start with the famous Deuteronomy passage. Deuteronomy 6

This is the original Jewish "Shema". Here "our God" = Elohenu; while "The Lord" = Yahweh.


2. However, Paul recasts that same Shema deliberate in Christian terms in 1 Corinthians 8: 4-6

Here, "God" = theos; "Lord" = kyrios

I have pointed out elsewhere that in the Septuagint "Yahweh" is translated "Kyrios": Paul is quoted in the New Testament as though he too was using The Septuagint; Paul could not have been unaware of The Septuagint or that it translates "Yahweh" as "Kyrios" . . . .

Anyway most crucially; according to the latter passage, to say Jesus is "a god" is to make him a "so-called god"; and we know from the Bible that every so-called god is a FALSE god.

So, this argument of Jesus is "a god" is a complete non-starter.

What about mark 12:29??........

It is the bibles you use that has replaced name Yahweh with the title LORD that is making you arrive @ this end....

Besides even in those translations there was a difference between Yahweh and all other Lords....

Yahweh was written as ""LORD" while other Lords including Jesus was written this way ""Lord""....

Please read psalms 110:1 to spot the difference.......that verse mentions 2 Lords but differentiates them....

New International Version (©1984)
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand until I make your
enemies a footstool for your feet."
.......
Do you spot the difference??

In the hebrew text the tetragrammaton was used for the 1st( LORD),but recent renditions just put LORD to cause the confusion many are in...but not withstanding the Lords in that verse were differentiated.....1 with capital letters all through,and the other the opposite....


This whole casala still goes back to the people who cleaned off the name of the almighty from the scriptures and exchanging it with the title ""Lord"".........

Always remember that Jesus' name is JESUS and YAHWEH has his own special name that sets him apart from all other GODs..........

Deuteronomy 6:4......

Hear O isreal and O nairalanders ""YAHWEH our GOD is YAHWEH""..........

So when you go back to read 1 corinthians 8:4-6 always remember to tell the difference....

besides that 1 corinthians in clear terms totally differenciates Yahweh from Jesus,by calling Yahweh the 1 God,while Jesus Lord....

So I don't know why you are confused.....

That verse even debunks the trinity......

Let me leave mr anony,goshen and frosbel.....

la cosa nostra: And great nd important nd weighty we confess is the hidden truth (the mystic secret) of Godliness. He (God) was made visible in human flesh, justified (and) vindicated in the (holy) spirit,(was seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world and taken up in glory.Amplified Version.So God is the same as the lord Jesus nd the Holy Spirit.

Now why would you say that He that was maÑifest was God??

why you no put Jesus for that verse??

Let me tell you and give you reasons why God is not the sÀme as Jesus who came in flesh.....

1.....God cannot be seen...(Never)

2......God cannot die......(Impossibility)

3.....God cannot be exalted.....(impossibility)

It was Jesus who was manifest in the flesh not God......

Thank you.....

That is why you see how the other bible rendition differ from the king james on that verse........

italo: Like Goshen said, there is no problem with you since you accept that Jesus is God.

But it seems you still feel like doing your circular dance...do it alone. We will be feeding our eyes and getting entertained.

When I say I accept Jesus is a God,you should ask me in what sense??

Is he Yahweh??

Is he the almighty??

Those are the questions that the trinity has hindered many from asking......

Ok which is the one anÐ only God we are to worship??

Yahweh or Jesus??

Ít is obvious that the Father is a totally different being from the son and also greater than the son........

Who should we worship??

This whole katakata boils down to worship.....

Who should be our God??


We must @ the end of the day worship that one God that is the cause of everything and whom abraham,isaac and Jacob worshipped...

We must @ the end of the day worship the God who raised Jesus from death and exalted Jesus......


That's why I quoted john 17:3 and also john 20:17.......

Those 2 scriptures are enough to solve this so called enigma ""TRINITY""

italo: So God gave instructions to Israel to worship IDOLS? Why?

What is an idol??..........

Define an idol.....

For the fact Yahweh instructed the isrealites to make the ark shows it isn't an idol.....Yahweh gave them the instruction.....

Besides when I wake I'll explain more on this ark issue....so that you'll see how far off It is from the mary worship that is prevalent today.....

HumbledbYGrace: Thread derailed lol!

Ok helo Plapville!missed u so much anyway

I believe u were right by voicing ur opinions but its not that we celebrate christmas because of hueva hu invented the day no.I celebrate christmas because 1.We read in Luke 2:8-20 how the birth of the Lord Jesus was first announced to humanity. The birth of a king's son is generally made an occasion of public reveling and rejoicing. The announcement of the birth of the Prince of Peace was made privately, at midnight, and without anything of worldly pomp and ostentation.

Let us mark who they were to whom the message first came that Christ was born. They were "shepherds abiding in the field near Bethlehem, keeping watch over their flocks by night." To shepherds - not to priests and rulers - to shepherds - not to Scribes and Pharisees, an angel appeared, tproclaiming, "unto you is born this day a Savior, who is Christ the Lord."

The saying of James should come into our mind as we read these words: "Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he tpromised those who love him?" (James 2:5). The lack of money precludes no one from spiritual privileges. The things of God's kingdom are often hidden from the great and noble and revealed to the poor. The busy labor of the hands need not prevent someone from being favored with special visit from God. Moses was keeping sheep, Gideon was threshing wheat, Elisha was ploughing, when they were each honored by direct calls and revelations from God. Let us resist the suggestion of Satan that religion is not for the working man. The weak of the world are often called before the mighty. The last are often first, and the first last.

2.His birth brought hope for the Jentiles right?u and me.We were not favoured by God remember?

So Jesus birth really means a lot to me that's I celebrate it,it may have been created by someone whom had different believes but that's wr his salvation was.
If I may ask @ OP y don't u celebrate christmas?bible quotes pls

It was thÉ sacrificial death of Jesus that brought hope to Jews and to gentiles and all,not his birth.......Jesus had always lived in the heavens......his death and not his birth is what was utmost.....

Always remember the Jews::::

The day of ones death,is better than the day of ones being born.........

So christmas has no relevance in christianity.....

Christmas and halloween are brothers....

All stem from one source.....paganism....

italo: Where did the Bible say you should marry in Church?

Where did the Bible say register your marriage?

I even pity you sef say make you go marry for shursh.....:-)......

Registration of the marraige according to the law of ceaser which ofcus you knw Jesus won't frown @ is the best way.....then a lil reception....we all knw Jesus attended a wedding......

Make sure people don't get drunk @ the reception and that revelry doesn't take place.....

I think you should knw how a modest wedding should be arranged.....

Italo I know be marraige advisor o.....

Just be observant and do not be fashioned after the world in all we do....

But let us be sure that we flee from paganism.....we should stop touching the unclean thing.....

Goshen360: Shall we then say scripture contradict itself If Rev 3:14 is meant to be/say that Christ had a beginning, how then do we interpret Hebrews 7:3

New International Version (©1984)
Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.

Hmmmmm..

I thought you yourself made a write up about melchizedek??

la cosa nostra: IJAWKID NA

Hmmmm....u no even give me breathing space....:-).....

Oya wetin ihedinobi talk??

Him say that verse they prove trinity??

oya make we quote the verse na....


New International Version (©1984)
Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness
is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated
by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was
preached among the nations, was believed on in
the world, was taken up in glory.

..........
New Living Translation (©2007)
Without question, this is the great mystery of
our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body
and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by
angels and announced to the nations. He was
believed in throughout the world and taken to
heaven in glory.
........
English Standard Version (©2001)
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of
godliness: He was manifested in the flesh,
vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels,
proclaimed among the nations, believed on in
the world, taken up in glory.
..........
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
By common confession, great is the mystery of
godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh,
Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in
the world, Taken up in glory.

.........
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And without controversy great is the mystery
of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of angels,
preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.
.........
International Standard Version (©2008)
By common confession, the secret of our godly
worship is great: In flesh was he revealed to
sight, kept righteous by the Spirit's might,
adored by angels singing. To nations was he
manifest, believing souls found peace and rest,
our Lord in heaven reigning!
.......

Now what is the problema??

italo: Just answer, please.

What is the Christian way of handling marriage

And how are christians following the world's way of doing it?

No be for shursh u go marry and then obey ceaser by registering you marraige??

Shikena....

Then u fit do small reception make people come enjoy with u....

Italo e be like you wan turn me to wedding advicer and planner....:-)....

Goshen360: I will NOT continue running in circle with you brother. Since you accept Jesus is called God, you don't have issue with me. Like I said, Jesus is NOT the Father and the Father is greater than Jesus even as Jesus said it. This is bible truth. Our exercise is simply to prove Jesus is God. I am tired for today. I gtg.

Lol...ok my lovely bro....

But abeg reconsider this issue @ hand...

Many people say the witnesses are a cult for saying Jesus was created by Yahweh......

it is because people have equated Jesus with Yahweh that is why that truth can't just be acknowledged......

Compare 1st born from the dead and also first born of all creation and tell me what is the difference...

Absolutely nothing.......

Yahweh ressurected Jesus,Jesus becomes the agent through which Yahweh is using to ressurect the rest of mankind...

Read this verse below ...it explains everything...

John 6:56 $ 57

56 Whoever eats my flesh
and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in
them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and
""I LIVE"" because of the Father, so the one who
feeds on me will""LIVE""because of me.
........
Did you see the chain in that scripture??

Yahweh gives life to Jesus,Jesus in turn gives life to us...



The same is with colossians...

Jesus was the 1st of Yahwehs creative works...while Yahweh now through his son(Jesus) created all other things.....

Always remember that when the word ""all"" is used when talking about responsibilities given to Jesus,Yahweh is always excepted....because Yahweh is the one doing the giving.....

my believing that Jesus is the 1st of Yahwehs creative works doesn't in anyway make me not honour my Lord Jesus Christ...

It only makes me appreciate how the heavens is arranged and how authority is respected...

And why Yahweh the Father is the God and Father of all....

That's all...

It also has made me know who the only true God is....

Jesus mentioned it @ john 17:3.....

And thanks my bro....

italo: @ Ijawkid... I hope you can remain sane with all these logical acrobatics that your heretical position has made you do.

So is the "Mighty God" God or not?

But I hope you are satisfied that Jesus isn't the almighty??

Hope you are satisfied that Jesus has a God who is greater than him??

and what is your problem with the word GOD??

What is a God??

@goshen....

Look @ these scriptures and tell me why Jesus wasn't created Just as we all are...

Hebrews 2:11

English Standard Version (©2001)
For he who sanctifies and those who are
sanctified all have one source. That is why he
is not ashamed to call them brothers,
......
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
For both He who sanctifies and those who are
sanctified are all from one Father; for which
reason He is not ashamed to call them
brethren,


John 20:17...

New International Version (©1984)
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have
not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to
my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to
my Father and your Father, to my God and
your God.'"
......

If both you ,me,all humans and Jesus all stem from the same Father,how on earth would we be created and Jesus isn't??

Does it make any sense??

Jesus is our brother.....

la cosa nostra: IJAWKID PLEASE,ABEG JUST EXPLAIN

And what is your problem with 1 timothy oooooo....:-).....

What??

Goshen360: This is how heresy begins with us. I told you guys I will puncture ALL your heresies. You just erred in this scriptures. Now, sit relax and learn the truth if you want to. I know this heresy exist in the JW's sect where they teach Jesus was created. The term "firstborn of all creation" is a prophetic title Apostle Paul revealed from Psalms Ps. 89:27, “I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth”. The title firstborn does not mean that Jesus was created (v. 16), but indicates His priority of rank as supreme over all the creation NOT CreatURES. What creation? He NEW CREATION, NOT CREATURE(S). Let's pull Colossians 1:15-16 again,

New International Version (©1984)
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Now if He was BEFORE ALL Things and created ALL things, how is he created. If your interpretation is that Christ was created, it then contradict John 1:1-2 and it will also mean him being called “the firstborn from the dead” (Colossians 1:18) also mean he was re-born after being first born or created. If you also interpret that Christ was created, then you will also contradict Acts 13:33,

New International Version (©1984)
he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: "'You are my Son; today I have become your Father.

The KJV says, "This day, I have begotten you....". It will therefore mean that AFTER Jesus was created and is the firstborn as you supposed, he was then begotten again according to Acts 13:33. Your statement will also contradict Hebrews 7:3

New International Version (©1984)
Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.

It would be wrong to think in physical terms here, as if Paul were asserting that the Son had a physical origin or was somehow created. This is called the classic Arian heresy rather than existing eternally as the Son, with the Father (John 1:1-2) What Paul had is saying is the rights and privileges of a firstborn son in which we believers are the new creation which Christ is the firstborn, especially the son of God as those who are redeemed to the Father by the blood of the Son who would inherit ruling sovereignty. This is how the expression is used of David in the Psalms.

The 1st born in psalms 89: 27 u quoted is it as regards kingship and government or as regards creation??

I'ma tell you this....

In all the. 30 times"" first born of"" was used in the bible and associated with or applied to living creatures the same meaning applies.::::in that the 1st born is part of the group....

""The 1st born of isreal"" is one of the sons of isreal...

""The 1st born of pharoah"" is one of pharoahs family...

Etc.......

My problem is how would this expression ""1st born of"" change its meaning when Jesus is called ""1st born of all creation""??

Another vital question for you to squash your stance on the fact that Jesus wasn't created by Yahweh(His God and Father),is :::::

Why is Jesus called the ""first born"". From the dead??

Did Jesus evade death and ressurection to attain that title??....

If Jesus wasn't ressurected by his Father how on earth can Jesus be called the ""1st born"" from the dead??

If Jesus wasn't created by his Father and God how on earth can that title ""1st born of all creation"" be attached to Him??

Jesus died and was ressurected...he was part of the family of persons who died or who will die and be ressurected by Yahweh.....but Jesus being the 1st to have experienced ressurection from Yahweh becomes the"" 1st born "" from the dead..

How on earth would you guys twist 1st born in colossians 1:15??

Goshen read psalms 89:27 again and tell me if that verse is talking about creation or kingship.......


It surprises me that you escaped from all the other places ""1st born "" was used in the bible including colossians 1:18 and stuck to psalms that was reffering to rulership and kingship.....


Even the governemnts and ruler ship power that Jesus has now,the Father gave it to him and Jesus ofcus would even return it back.....

Make no mistake my freind...

YAhweh created Jesus.....Yahweh is the cause of Jesus's existence....

I have asked you before :::::

Why do you think Jesus isn't afraid to call ""us"" brothers??

Why??

Read hebrews 2:11...

New Living Translation (©2007)
So now Jesus and the ones he makes holy have
the same Father. That is why Jesus is not
ashamed to call them his brothers and sisters.
....

We all stem from the same source...and who is that source my brother??

Is the 1 source not Yahweh??

And let me tell u this.....

The same way Yahweh created Jesus as the 1st of his works and made Jesus the agent through which all other things were created,so also after Yahweh ressurected Jesus,Jesus now became the agent through which all other faithfuls would be ressurected........

There is no running from this salient points...

For the fact that the God of Jesus is also our God should alone tell you that Jesus had a beginning just like US......

la cosa nostra: FROSBEL WHY ARE YOU BEING DISHONEST I ASKED U TO EXPLAIN 1 TIMOTHY 3 : 16 USING THE AMPLIFIED VERSION NO REPLY YET ,IJAWKID YOU ALSO.

You want us to use only the amplified version??

You sure??

Your still on that road that suggests that Jesus was GOD in flesh abi??

Which GOD??

The almighty??

italo: But you agree with the Bible that Jesus is Mighty God.

As bible talk am I gree.....

My aim here is to tell every1 that Jesus isn't the almighty and that Jesus has a God and Father who is over him and greater than him....

That's all....

italo: Why have you been avoiding this my question. This is about the fourth time I am asking you this question from the Bible.

It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation 22; verses 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,” and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself. “The Alpha and the Omega” of verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences(the 1st is at revelation 1:8 and 2ndly @ revelation revelation 21:6,7)): Yahweh. The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God(Yahweh) also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment. (Compare Isa 26:21.)


Malachi 3:1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Yahweh and his “messenger of the covenant.”

That is what the whole of revelation is saying...

...The title “the Alpha and the Omega” carries the same thought as “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” when these terms are used with reference to Yahweh.

Before him there was no Almighty God, and there will be none after him. He will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God.—Compare Isa 44:6.


Italo do u understand??

italo: I have done Bible reseach and all the Bible translators translate El Gibbohr as "Mighty God." Even non-bible Hebrew to English translations show that El Gibbohr means Mighty God.

So where is your source?

And are you now saying Jesus is the "Mighty God" and not "Almighty God?"

All I am saying is that Jesus isn't ALMIGHTY God.....

Is that hard to understand??

There is only 1 almighty GOD and it. Is .not Jesu§.....



U doubt??

I guess u know who the almighty GOD is...

Don't act like you don't know.....

italo: But any object being worshipped is an IDOL. That's what you've been saying all day. So according to your reasoning, God commanded them to make the IDOLS.



That is a lie. It was not ALWAYS kept there.


Who commanded you to make "Awake" magazine? Who commanded the Israelites to make IDOLS and WORSHIP them?


That question is not applicable to me because I do not pray through any image.

Please read more on the ark of covenant....it was made for the temple use except when it was moved from place to place....

Besides like I told u,Yahweh who gave the isrealites the command not to make idols,was the one who told the isrealites to make that ark....it was an instruction.....

Who told catholics to make an image of mary and bow down to it..??.where is the comm
And in the bible??


Don't lie to me that you do not bow down to marys image......

I pass thru many catholic churches and that's exactly what I see.....