₦airaland Forum

Ubenedictus: hahaha, u have succeeded in trapping urself. Hahaha, rev 21:6 God the fada calls himself the 'arche" hahahaha, accding to u, that means he was created. Next time u bring this ur adulterated explanations that dont have a place in scripture make sure those words arent used to describe the fada

How does the words alpha and omega mean the"" beginning of"" ??

you totally forgot we are talking about the expression ""the beginning of""....

When I tell you to always put on your thinking caps u ignore it.....

I quoted sound bible verses that hit the nail on the head to show what the expressions ""firstborn of"" and ""beginning of"" means...

But you would dodge them.....

Now may I ask you:::::

1....Can we say the Father is the beginiing of the creation of God??

2....Can we say the Father is the 1st born of all creation??

3..Can we say the Father is the 1st born son of God??hebrews 1:6 says and when God brings his ""1st born"" into the world""

4...Can we say the Father is the image of the invincible God??

I just exposed your folly......

If you can't bring out scriptures to explain what the expressions ""beginning of"" and ""1st born of""
Means then you better go hide your head in shame.........

When you employ greek philosophy to explain clear verses this is what results...HERESIES.....!!!!!!!

.........

I'm done arguing the trinity with you....

Besides you dodged a clear truth that angels are spirits...

I'm done with you......

davidylan: the very idea of an atheist thinking about "making heaven" is an oxymoron. Why would you be worried about entry to a place you believe does not exist?

I wonder....

Why worry about a place that doesn't exist....

Ogoamaka....how are u doing??

We don hear.....:-)

tobechi20: The way people condem certain actions here on nairaland pisses me off..some things are seen as wordly while others are unwordly.

If certain things are truely wordly, why dont we reject everything that is asociated with it.

If dbanj is a worldly singer, why dont d pastor reject his money

if politics is a dirty game, why do pastors organise prayer for politician to win election.

If psquare is worldly singer,then he shouldnt
pay tithe.



Enough is enough

Lol.....

You dey vex o.....

Atheists can't be among the chosen ones who"ll go to heaven...that privilege of going to heaven is meant solely for those who have taking in knowledge of Yahweh and his son whom(Yahweh) he sent......

For some who have been good so to speak they might be Among the unrighteous ones who'll be ressurected to live eternally here on earth(new world)......

God sees the heart more than we do.....He might and will let some experience the new world....

Very funny and interesting

Jeiel: Just a quick question for frosbee and Ijawkid: who do you guys say Jesus is?

He is the only begotten Son of God...john 3:16.........

Logicboy03: Only to take it out after the service behind the curtains

Lmao......

Ubenedictus: actually i just remembered im not oblige to answer these questions. I remember seeing of ur Jw magazine which say copyist and translator has been removing d name for 3500yrs and still claim it was done by d rcc. Is d rcc 3500yrs old? No! So friend do a little google search and d article will come. Im not obliged to give it to u, go and make research.

See you....

The catholics clung to the ""don't use Gods name""........

And till date you guys forbid the use of that name..

I dey talk lie??

Meanwhile tell me the meaning of Yehshua....

I wan catch you......

Ubenedictus: yeah?

sorry that isnt what my bible says. My bible say begot not "pro-create" where did u get that word from? Is that one of ur Jw term?

hahaha

so your father created you abi? Hahaha, my bible didnt say "create" it say "begot". My parent didnt create me they begot me. The same 4 the Word.

there is nting to run from.

heb 7:3

he is the arche of creation, that means he is the source of creation. If u claim that Jesus was created, that mean Jesus created himself. Because by bible say "there was NOTHING created but thru him". Goodluck with that.
this isnt in d bible
hahahaha, please dont cry, the word already was "in the begining" there is no time before "in the begining". The earliest time dat d bible bears witness to is 'd beginning'. And Jesus existed before d begining. Wow, d guy was b4 d begining, that is eternity. If u cant see that then u need to go wash ur eyes. That is what i mean wen i said he wasnt begotten in time, d guy came from eternity.
Peace

To start with let's define the word ""begot"" so that you can start thinking straigth...

Definition of BEGET
1
: to procreate as the father : sire
2
: to produce especially as an effect or
outgrowth

Synonyms: effect, breed, bring, bring about,
bring on, catalyze, cause, create, do, draw on,
effectuate, engender, generate, induce,
invoke, make, occasion, produce, prompt,

From that you can see what the word beget or begot means...

Begot means create,pro-create,to cause etc....

Infact Jesus was created...your definition of Jesus being the ""beginning"" of the creation of God is totally wrong and against the bibles view point...your interpretation of ""ARKHE"" is fashioned after greek philosophy..

According to the Expositors greek testament,to understand revelation 3;14 as meaning that Jesus is ""the active source"" of creation,rather than the first created person,one must interprete ""ARKHE"" as in the greek philosophy and [non-biblical] Jewish wisdom-literature,=aitía or origin..""
But ofcus the inspired bible writers weren't greek philosophers and so never borrowed ideas from greek philosophy...

Let us now from the scriptures find out what the word ""ARKHE"" means....the bible explains itself




try comparing revelation 3:14

and colossians 1:15 with these scriptures.....

Genesis 49: 2-3....
King James Version (KJV)
2 Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye
sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your
father.
3 Reuben, thou art my ""firstborn"", my might, and
""the beginning"" of my strength, the excellency
of dignity, and the excellency of power:

Also deuteronomy 21:17
American King James Version
But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated
for the firstborn, by giving him a double
portion of all that he has: for he is ""the
beginning"" of his strength; the right of the
""firstborn"" is his.
....
American Standard Version..
but he shall acknowledge the first-born, the
son of the hated, by giving him a double portion
of all that he hath; for he is"the beginning of""
his strength; the right of the ""first-born"" is his.

.............

Take a close look @ those 2 expressions also used to describe Jesus in revelation and colossians....""FIRST BORN"" and ""THE BEGINNING of""

Ofcus from genesis we know reuben was jacobs 1st born son amongst jacobs kids....reuben wa§ part of the group that indeed made up Jacobs offsprings...bÙt he was the 1st of them all....

And it was reuben who was the beginning of jacobs pro creation (so to speak)....

You can't tell me reuben being the ""beginning of"" jacobs strength and power means reuben is infact the source of Jacobs strength....
....

The same with the verse from deuteronomy 21:17...




You might also wanna ask why the earthly Jesus is called mary's FIRST BORN..??.

I guess you know.....

Amongst mary's kids Jesus was the 1st she gave birth to....infact this sc®ipture gives a perfect rebuttal to catholÍcs who believe mary never had other children apart from Jesus........
...
But back to the main discussion..

The expression ""FIRST BORn"" son clearly shows that mary gave birth to other kids,but Jesus was the 1st of them all.......

Let's read luke 2:7......
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And she gave birth to her """firstborn"" son; and
she wrapped Him in cloths, and laid Him in a
manger, because there was no room for them
in the inn.
.........
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And she brought forth her"" firstborn"" son, and
wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him
in a manger; because there was no room for
them in the inn.

When ever the word 1st born is applied to living things that is the correct exegesis......

The scriptures explain itself.....

Stop clinging to greek philosophies and let the bible explain itself....

The words ""ARKHE"" and ""prototokos"" has been used several times in the bible....

And when ever they apply to living beings the meaning remains constant......

Jesus being the 1st born of all creation shows that Jesus is part of Yahwehs creation but he is the 1st....while Jesus became the agent through which Yahweh created all other things,the same way Yahweh ressurected Jesus from the dead 1st and through Jesus ressurection of millions will be accomplished...that is why Jesus is called ""1st born"" from the dead..I know u've denied that Jesus didn't die completely ,so I don't even expect you to think rationally...

If Jesus isn't part of the family of those who died and was ressurected,there is no way he(Jesus) would be called ""1st born"" from the dead....

Also Jesus being the ""beginning of "" Gods creation shows Jesus is the 1st of Yahwehs creative works just as reuben was the 1st of Jacobs kids...

Learn to let the bible explain itself and forfeit the catholic creeds........

It might be you have been watching too much porn lately...

Confess o.....lol..

Its just a dream my bro.....

Do some exercise,eat well and your sleep will be smooth...

Ubenedictus: oh! Sorry! I just remembered ur heachache

are they all immaterial, unchangeable and infinite?

no! I cant live in heaven without having being transformed. My coporal and mortal body becomes spiritualised it becomes incoporal and immortal e.t.c but yet that my spiritual body isnt infinite, immovable. The angel are finite and they move though invisible to us.

that again didnt contradict my point, by adding the word "body" after spiritual i simply implied that d angels lack the essential, unapproachable, immovable and infinite nature of God, that is my point.

Jesus posses d fulness of d deity sumtin dat hasnt been said of any1. There is nting fuller dan "fullness". Ofcuz dat is equality.

they donot have d same nature. The uncreated nature can never be d same as d created, u are spewing heresy!

sorry that is ur definition. We wu believe it do not define it that way. Are u to define what i believe? When i and truly all catholics talk abt coequality we are refering to equality accding to nature and essence. Im suppose to teach u what i believe. U cant teach me my believe becos u dont know it.
old story.

You are just running about.....

All beings in heaven are spirits.....

Ubenidictus u can't run away from this simple truth.......

John 4:24 says God is a ""spirit""

Hebrews confirms that all angels are ""spirits.""..

How you can't understand this simple truth gets me bewildered.......

Every being in heaven are spirits.....

Weren't the angels also created in Gods image??

And please discard ur catholic definition of co equality and stick to what the bible teaches.....

Yahweh and his son aint co-equal....

Them no be mate....

Ubenedictus: u have started again, eternity is outside time. There is nothing like time, before, after in eternity. Sorry!

it doesnt, my bible says d
fada is eternal without begining or end, he also has a begotten son wu is also without begining or end, is dat so hard 4 u to c? Open ur bible and see! That simple mean he eternally begat his son that is y neither d begetter nor d begotten have a beging and neither will have an end.
where did u get dis logic, oh! Ofcuz d usual ijawkid is trying to reason linearly, oh! Sorry! No before of after in eternity, it isnt linear, dat is y eternity is outside time.

yeah ijawkid wants to limit God to d size of his brain.

are u also d exact representation of his being?

ijawkid is d image of his fada, according to ijawkid that mean he isnt a real or true human becuz he isnt d 'original'.

go and learn d meaning of the word eternal

dont worry to add the bracket, i naturally dont take your insults serious most times. Ur opinion abt me doesnt define me God defines me. To d question, Jesus to a human form and even became lower dan d angels he became a man. As man he truly gave latria to d fada, and as God he asks men for d exact same honor dat men give d fada.

same old story. Is that it?

I am the image or carbon copy of my Father only shows

1..I am not my Father..

2...My Father pro-created me..

3....I and my Father are not equals.....

The same goes for Jesus and his Father.....

Jesus being the image of the Father simply means Yahweh created Jesus....

How u intend to run away from this baffles me....

And please show me which scripture that says Jesus didn't have a beginning...

Jesus is the 1st born of all creation....he is the beginning of the creation of Yahweh...

Jesus has a beginning.......

He was begotten,created etc......

Get that.....

There is nothing like begotten eternally.....

Begotten is begotten........

Ubenedictus: no your understanding of co equality is very poor.

no! Im defining it d way the term has always been used as regards the trinity. They are coequal because they trully posses the fullness of the divine nature and essence.

because one is the "eternal source" of the rest. I told u b4 to learn abt sumtin b4 u criticize it. The fada gave birth to d son and not d other way round, the holyspirit proceed from the fada and not the other way round. That is why the fada is d head. It is called d teaching of the "monachy of d fada". Google it and Take a look b4 u ask another silly question.

it seems u repeated urself 3 times wit 3 different sentences. Weldone.

because u b human like ur fada, d two of una equally and fully posses d human nature.

u alread coequal am by d fact say u born u human, e no born u animal.

no! D fada is spirit, a pure spirit, with no body. The angels have a "spiritual body"

sorry d angels have an angelic nature they donot have the nature of God. The nature of God is uncreated dat of d angels is created. Do not decieve urself.
same old story. Ijawkid welldone u just confirmed ur heresy! So an uncreated nature is d same as a created nature. Have arianism dulled ur brains?

So angels have a spiritual body while God is a spirit abi??

Na now I know say u need paracetamol....

All beings in the heavens are spirits....

Telling me the Father is a pure spirit while the angels have spiritual body is crazy...spiritual body is the spirit mr ubenidictus....u can't live in heaven and not be a spirit..

Come let me dÉbunk you a lil bit

Open your bible to hebrews 1:14


New International Version (©1984)
Are not all angels ministering ""spirits"" sent to
serve those who will inherit salvation?
.....
New Living Translation (©2007)
Therefore, angels are only servants--""spirits""
sent to care for people who will inherit
salvation.
....
English Standard Version (©2001)
Are they not all ministering ""spirits"" sent out to
serve for the sake of those who are to inherit
salvation?
.....

Only spirits reside in the heavens...if you can't know that @ this your age then I wonder when you'll know....:-)

And once again Jesus and the Father aint coequal......

As just proved we can then say that all angels are coequal with the Father and son because they are all spirits........

You can't run away from this fact.....

Coequality goes beyond just nature,it encompasses everything....

For that fact Jesus is not co-equal to his Father......

CrazyMan: I'm just everywhere now...NYSC to be more specific

Are u serving,already served or about to serve??

:-)

obadiah777: i can use that boost brother Ijawkid. i relapsed again yesterday

Lol....

I got creatine....would u care for some??

Lol...

plappville: Yet the world is made to believe that Chist is a white man....Many people see this white man in thier dream and claim they saw Jesus.
When i was a church goer, I used to see this same White man in my dream. Satan is using this picture to decieve many.
This is idolatery.

Hahahahaha...

So u been dey see the long haired white Jesus for your dream??...lol....

I think now u know it was all just a dream.....

Welcome to reality my dear..........

Please tell others that what they are seeing in there dreams aint Jesus but robert powell......

joe4christ: [size=15pt] One thing i've come to realise is that there are certain spiritual truth that cannot be deciphered by one self except through the holy spirit, it seems this truth are coded, even when they seems open, it's actually open to those who have had a revelation in that regard.
The Godhead is a mystery, it is one of the deep things of God Jesus was talking about when he said ''the holy spirit would reveal to you the deeper things of the kingdom of God - John 14:26, John 16:13

Now finally before i quit arguing over this same matter for the good of everybody even as the lord has told me to,
now here is my last question to you frosbel and your cohorts,
[size=15pt] Can you please explain to me why God the father himself testified by calling Jesus God according to Hebrew 1:8 ''Your throne o God endures forever and ever'' or are u desputing the fact that God actually said that?
My final explanation: when the father refers to Jesus as God he is actually talking about the deity of christ in regards to the Godhead but when he said ''your God, even your God has anointed you'' he is talking about Christ (The anointed one, the lamb of God that was made as the sacrificial lamb of sacrifice for the sins of the world) and many atime Jesus speaks both as man and as God, even we the children of God atimes do speak under the influence of the holy spirit some deep things without even knowing it while most atimes we speak as mortals, I wish i could make you see the light yourself but i know it would be futile to do so, cos if the holy spirit himself do not reveal it to then there's actually nothing i or anybody can do to help, i realy wished i could or rather i wished you would humble yourself and go on your knees in prayer to our heavenly father to give a revelation about who Jesus truly is, God will show you, cos it's not the will of God that you continue in ignorance, remember even God said ''my people perish for lack of knowledge'', please seek the face of God on this matter and he will through his spirit reveal the truth to you. [/size]
God bless you!!! [/size]

Did u read the next verse??

Verse 9 reads::::
Hbr 1:9
Thou hast loved righteousness and hated
lawlessness; therefore God, thy God, has
anointed thee with the oil of gladness beyond
thy comrades."(RSV)
....

In the
Trinitarian translation, God the Father
speaking to God the Son, "O God," and then
God the Father tells God the Son that he,
God the Father, is God the Son's God,
"God, your God." It is ridiculously
preposterous. God the Son has a God?

Joe4Christ do you see the reason why the. Way u read verse 8 of hebrews 1 is wrong??

In trying to prove that Yahweh called Jesus God(ofcus he didn't call Jesus ""my God"" verse 9 goes further to show that Yahweh is the God of Jesus.....

.......

Now it is good to consider what really hebrews 1:8 $ 9 is saying...

As we all know hebrews 1: 8 $9 is an excerpt from psalms 45: 6-7....which had an earlier fulfillment on david and davids son(king solomon) before it did have a greater fulfillment on Jesus Christ.....

Now let us read psalms 45:6-7 from some trinitarians translations to get the full gist...
RSV(revised standard version)
Psalm 45:6-9
6 ""Your divine throne"" endures for ever and ever.
Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity; 7 you
love righteousness and hate wickedness.
Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with
the oil of gladness above your fellows;
GNT(Good News
Translation)
Psalm 45:6-7
6 ""The kingdom that God has given you"" will last
forever and ever. You rule over your people with
justice; 7 you love what is right and hate what is
evil. That is why God, your God, has chosen you
and has poured out more happiness on you than
on any other king....
......

Do you see the renderings;;::

1.."Your divine throne""
2..""The kingdom that God has given you""....

Instead of ""your throne O God""??


This renderings are congruent with the following verses of psalm 45:7 and hebrews 1:9 that says that the annointed king has Yahweh as his God.....

King solomon and david sat on Yahwehs throne(davids throne) and on that same throne is what Jesus was to sit on.....
And both david,solomon,and Jesus all have Yahweh as there GOD who annointed them...

That is why just as servants of Yahweh back then bowed down to both Yahweh and his appointed king (david) so also all peoples of the earth and in the heavens this time will bow down to Yahweh and the greater david(Jesus)
......
Let's confirm this from 1 chronicles 29:20 $ 23

20 And David said to all the congregation, Now
bless the LORD your God. And all the
congregation blessed the LORD God of their
fathers, and bowed down their heads, and
worshipped the LORD, and the king..
23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of the
LORD as king instead of David his father, and
prospered; and all Israel obeyed him.
......

take note::the king mentioned in verse 20 of 1 chronicles was king david....(Servants of Yahweh bowed down to appointed kings of Yahweh)


Later on solomon sat on Gods throne and lastly Jesus who is the last appointed king sat on Gods throne..

Points:::

1....Hebrews 1: 8-9 is an excerpt of psalms 45 6-7..and it had its 1st fulfillment on human kings..verse 11 of psalms 45 says He(david) is marrying the princess of Tyre.


2..The prophecy in psalms had its earlier fulfillment on david and his son(solomon) who sat on Gods throne and then later on to Jesus who is the only begotten son of Yahweh who sat on the throne of david his Father.....

3..If one reads hebrews 1:8 with a trinitarian eye then one would have to conclude that david and solomon were God and that God has a God...that would be absurdity @ its peak...We can see from a review of the original
passage that God is not calling this Davidic
King "God" but is referring to that fact
that he sits upon a divinely established
throne...

4..GOD cannot be annointed,because he is neither under anybody nor has he got equals..

5..God has no contemporaries or fellows...GOD is over every one(with Jesus included)...rather it was Jesus who was exalted by GOD(Yahweh) over the angels and GOD(Yahweh) gave him a name greater than theirs(angels)....
.......

Hebrews and psalms from which hebrews 1: 8$9 was extracted had no intent of making Yahwehs appointed king(s) the same or equals with Yahweh...

It only shows that the davidic throne is divine,will last forever and that Yahweh is its source.....

And if you had noticed Yahweh didn't call Jesus""MY GOD""

rather it was Jesus who always reffered to Yahweh as ""MY GOD and FATHER""...

More than 10 times Jesus reffered to Yahweh as ""MY GOD""..............

In revelation 3:12 Jesus reffered to his Father as ""MY GOD"" four good times....

So don't force the trinity dogma into hebrews 1:8-9.......

Listen O joe ""Yahweh our GOD is 1 Yahweh""

Ubenedictus: no one can be before d other in eternity,

i cant find that in my bible. My bible say Jesus have no beginning.
we share d same God becos Jesus took our nature, an inferior nature.

there is no gist there.

morning star is denotes brilliance, it doesnt mean Jesus is an angel.

Jesus has a beginning....

That's why he is the beginning of the creation of Yahweh and also the 1st born of all creation........
And also begotten and the image of the invincible God......

Those are terms used for persons who has a beginning....

Those terms can never apply to the Father(Yahweh)

You share the same God with Jesus because u and Jesus all originated from the Father who is the source of all life.....

Jesus in his glorified state said(except you would say Jesus in his glorified state after been ressurected was still inferior in nature like us)....::::

I am going back to"" my Father and your Father and to my God and your God""

That is why Jesus calls us brothers.....

Because we all stem from the same source of life which is Yahweh........Jesus is the 1st of Yahwehs creative works and son while we and all the angels followed......

We are all brothers with Yahweh as our Father........



And let me tell you that the term ""morning star"" can't be used for the almighty....

Morning star is a title attached to all sons of God who live in the heavens.....

Ubenedictus: hahaha, the name "yahweh" was already extinct then, it has been extinct for a long time the jews had stopped using it for a long time. Who told use d jews were still using d name?

Oya now tell me wetin be the meaning of the name Jesus or Yehshua....

Uo forgot to answer that......

And please how can Jesus who came from heaven stop using the name of his God and Father??

Abi Jesus been suffer from memory loss??

Ubenedictus: if i took the position of a slave then i would and could truly say that GEJ is greater than i

having d nature of a slave would still keep me subject.

And what you fail to realize is that Jesus has always been a slave of Yahweh from times past,when he came to the earth and now in the heavens....

You fail to understand that Jesus will be a slave of Yahweh forever.....

Don't tell me you haven't understood that truth till this moment.....

Ubenedictus: friend wen it comes to drinks, i donot take excess, im not drunk, never have been and i hope i will be.

i cant find where d bible say Jesus had d angelic state. Where did u get this?

does marwin star equal angelic state?

i ask you, does a person beget what is unlike him in nature?

can we say u begot ur father?

u were d one wu trivalised the word and sgcd it meant "created".

u still havent learnt that the word "b4" doesnt exist in eternity.

adam wasnt made in eternity, he was made in time.

hahahaha, i alway have them on!

Whether in eternity or in time the word ""beget"" still holds........

Yahweh existed b4 his son Jesus......

That is why we share the same God with Jesus.......

Abi you no dey get the gist??

And like I earlier said Jesus is a morning star...

Na lie I talk??

Ubenedictus: and so?

what name? Do u read the name yahweh in the new testament? Are u joking?
hahahahahahahahahaha, i cant stop laughing! If i could laugh in greek i would. I had made your name known doesnt mean Jesus went about telling people that the father name was "yahweh" if that was it u would have seen d name yahweh in d new testament. Go and read, Jesus was never recorded to use d name "yahweh". The word 'name' denotes personality in the jewish tradition, when he said "i made your name known" he meant " i made u know" "i made you person known". While u will never read that Jesus said "yahweh" u will certain read that Jesus made his father know.
Learn to read and read with understanding.

But Jesus used Gods name....he was a jew....

Infact his name Yehshua shows Jesus was a Jew who had Gods name attached to it.....

All Jews used that name........

If Jesus didn't use the tetragrammaton then he definitly wasn't a Jew....

Maybe Jesus was a roman......

Mention 1 Jew who won't use that name......

U think the Jews were like you who denied the one and only true God??

Every Jew read deuteronomy 6:4 including Yehshua.......

Yehshua used Gods name and you should do the same rather than run around the place with titles.....

May I ask you...

What is the meaning of the name JESUS??

Oya answer

Zikkyy: Tithe as commandment was brought to an end, with plenty of scripture verse to support this. What that means is that rendering of tenth is @ the discretion of the individual giving it. It's no different from other form of giving. What is a crime is the pastor teaching tithe as commandment. Tithing as preached today is the creation of man and influenced by greed.

I always been know say you sabi something...:-)...

Shake my hand.....

joe4christ: You all are indeed of small comprehension, do you not yet understand the mystery of the Godhead?
Do you not see it in the government of the day? Take for instance the organs of government are made up of three independent body and at the same time vital for the survival of governance, e.g The Executive government, The Legislative and The Judiciary are all organs of government that forms government itself, they might be distinct but are responsible for governance and that is why they are known as government.
The executive seems to be vested with more sovereign power than other organs while the legislature seems to be next on the line followed by the judiciary but in real sense they are all powerful and dependant on each other, so is the mystery of the Godhead, if u dont get this then u wont get it at all.
Bless u all!

..............

But can You say that the executive =legislative=judiciary??......

Isn't the executive the source of what ever strength or power that the other arms possess??

From your analysis of the Godhead then it means we humans are part of that Godhead.......

Because we work for the almighty just as Jesus and all the other angels work for him.....

Read 1 corinthians 11:3.....

We are part of that Godhead if that is what Godhead means to you....

Good!!!!!!!!......

Ubenedictus: so u didnt think about this? Wow he is an exact image becos he was begotten.

wow, are u are exact image? Do u know as things? Or have d fullness of the deity?

But he is also an image of the invincible God....

Means Jesus isn't the original......

He is like all other creations of Yahweh who are images of the invincible God.....

Exact or not-exact,Jesus remains an image of the invincible God....

If you want to humor yourself you can discard and kill the expresion ""the image"" .......

That expression defines everything...

Ubenedictus: truthislight u have started spitting lies just to foster hatred and put other up against the RCC, just a point of correction d catholic church that existed before the eleven century wasnt called "roman", rome only preside over the church d name roman wasnt there, so it is a subtle mistake to say that the RCC did anything before the eleventh century.
Now to the main issue, i believe u have a problem with learning becos i have explained this to you times without number, before Jesus was born the name yahweh had already disappeared from the jewish text becos they believed it was too holy to b called, the greek version that was also and used before christ and d apostles didnt have the name yahweh. the pronuciation was also lost even wen some ancient edition that had it were discovered.
Sorry to burst ur bible friend but the early church didnt even meet the name, Jesus himself didnt meet the name in popular use.
Peace and stop speading wrong information.

And Jesus himself beared the name "Yehshua..""

The 1 true fact is Jesus made that name known to every single Jew back then and then to his apostles and disciples.....

See what Jesus said @ john 17:24-26...

24 Father, I desire that they also, whom You
have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that
they may see My glory which You have given
Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of
the world.
25 “O righteous Father, [a]although the world
has not known You, yet I have known You; and
these have known that You sent Me; 26 and I
have made ""Your name"" known to them, and will
make it known, so that the love with which You
loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”



........

Jesus made the Fathers name known .....

All Jews used Gods name.....

Sleek05: Ohh I c. Thought as much. But serzly, I think u shld watch ur tongue. I und if u have 2 defend d anti-trinity faith but goin as far as callin d catholic n co churches pagan, u surely don't kno wat ure getn urself in2. Trogunn, ijawkid n others, pls wat church do u guys attend?

I no dey attend church......

Sleek05: Ijawkid, uve not answered. Pls answer d questn and stop bein so defensive.

U failed to mention the Jews and 1st century christians......

Enigma: As with the other thread, and add also

Rev 22






Compare Revelation 21

U quoted this......

Compare Revelation 21
22 I did not see a temple in the city,
because the Lord God Almighty and the
Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does
not need the sun or the moon to shine on
it, for the glory of God gives it light,
and the Lamb is its lamp


There the says the city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it,for the glory of ""GOD"" gives it light and the Lamb is its light.....

Verse 22 seperates the Lord God almighty from the Lamb whom he ressurected and exalted.........


Those verses absolutely diFferenciates the Father who is the almighty and the 1 and only true God from his son who is the Lamb,whom the Father is greater than.................

joe4christ: Before i do proceed, let me clear your doubt, i aint catholic, as matter of fact i dont agree with most of their doctrines, rather i'm of penticustal origin even though i dont condider myself a penticustal, i'm just a christian who have tested of the power of God and of the kingdom to come.
Now to the main point:

Now get this straight, Jesus is the son of God and God, he manifested in this two dimention but you're too blind that you seem not to see it or just dont want to admit it for once.

Now i'm gonna give you just two simple proof that Jesus is God but if you still dont believe it after this then you can go hug transformer for all i care.

Hebrew 1:6-8 (Very self-explanatery)
6 And then he presented his honored Son to the world, God said, ''Let all the angels of God worship him''
7 God calls his angels ''messangers swift as the wind, and servants made of flaming fire''
8 But to his son he says, [size=15pt]''Your throne O God, endures forever and ever.
Your royal power is expressed in righteousness.
9 You love what is right and hate what is wrong.
Therefore God, your God, has anointed you
pouring out the oil of joy on you more than on anyone else''
10 And,
''Lord, in the beginning you laid the foundation of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 Even they will perish but you remain forever. [/size]

Now the second scripture:
Revelation 5:13
13 And then i heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea. They also sang:
''Blessing and honor and glory and power
belong to [size=15pt]the one sitting on the throne[/size] and to the[size=15pt] lamb (Jesus Christ)[/size] forever and ever''
God sitting on the throne and the lamb which we all know is talking about Jesus are being worship by all of creation both in heaven and on earth and even beneath the earth according to that scripture and i still remember the verse that says God will never share his Glory with any man and he will never share it with anybody, so if Jesus is not God then God almighty just contradicted his word when he said he wont share his glory with any man while sharing it with a man called Jesus the christ, but this clearly shows that Jesus is God.
But if you still are'nt convince then i'll be forced to believe you are destined to perish is your own deception and because you reject knowledge God himself has rejected you.
Finish!

So is the one sitting on the throne the same with the lamb??

And when u say Jesus is God,which God are talking about??

Almighty or one who is lesser than the almighty??

Because it is crystal clear that my almighty God cannot be a LAMB.....

And didn't the almighty himself glorify Jesus??

How else do you think Jesus is sitting @ the right hand of his Father and God??

The son been elevated above all other beings(with the exception of the Father who exalted Jesus) does not mean that the son automatically becomes the same with his Father or equal to his Father.....

That is the argument that has been on here on this religious forum......

Many want to equate Jesus with his God and Father....

And that is what I will continue to fight against till many persons get the truth......