₦airaland Forum

albacete: trying to understand God with human knowledge.

For the scripture says "His ways are not our ways, neither are his thoughts our thoughts".

TRINITY is not three Gods, but three persons in ONE God.

We walk by faith, not by sight (or proof)

Please u both should put on your thinking caps and read deuteronomy 6:4........and stop living in mysteries........

When you can't prove a pagan doctrine you call it a mystery....

Jesus said to his fellow worshippers ""listen O isreal,Yahweh our God is 1 Yahweh"".....

Recite that same creed and forfeit the trinity...it dulls every adherent .......

Ubenedictus: and my point still stands, by nature im equal to GEJ, all he can do by the very fact of being human i can do. If honor is due to us by the very fact that we are human then honor is due to me. I am equal to GEJ in dignity according to nature he is higher than me in temporal rank. So again my point stand the father can be equal to the son according to his dignity of nature and yet the father has a higher rank for the father is truly "father", "head" and "GOD". So as i said my point still stand equal by natured different by rank.
Peace

Ok so u said the only aspect of life in which you are equal to GEJ is that you are both humans(flesh and blood)...right??

But abeg tell me in which other way you are equal to GEJ......

1.....Power
2...Age
3...Authority


All the spirit creatures in heaven are spiriÞ beings,but ofcus we know who came b4 who....

Jesus saying the Father is greater than he is means the Father is over all.........

You cannÓt just say because all beings are spirits in heaven just as Yahweh is,then you start pin pointing equality.......

Yahweh is greater than every being.....He is the God of everybody...

Accept that......Jesus renders services to Yahweh there in the heavens........Jesus is not co -equÀl with the Father....stop holdÍng on to this dignity rubbish.......accept that Jesus will be Yahwehs subordinate for all eternity....read 1 coriÑthians 15:24-28 till you understand

Ubenedictus: i remembered u ran away d last time.

it is like asking wu came first ijawkid and his reasoning faculty, u are asking me wu came first between the father and his logos.

accoding to human nature all humans are equal.

u are speaking of temporal power and u are trying to compare it with divine power, do u see how ur analogy fail. By the very fact that Jesus posses the fulness or was given the fulness of the Godhood state (wen he was begotten by d fada) that make him have the power and attribute ascribed to God according to nature. If the father is all power by his nature so his d son by nature.



sorry u didnt show me the passages.
Or have u made ur own bible?

So u mean u've been blind to the numerous scriptures that prove that Jesus isn't all knowing,all powerful and all good like the Father??

Now go pick up your bible and read.......

Jesus is not co-equal with his Father,only the trinity deludes you into thinking that..........

For your information Jesus is doing his high priest Job in the heavens and pleading on behalf our sorry azzes to the almighty Yahweh.......

Remove the veil of trinity and see clearly that Jesus isn't all knowing and all powerful and all good..........

My reasoning facaulty is installed in me by Yahweh....

Jesus being the logos does not mean that Jesus was inside of Yahweh b4 Yahweh vomitted him out........Jesus according to your doctrine is a seperate being........

So Yahweh existed b4 Jesus,while Yahweh begot Jesus.....that is why Jesus is called begotten.....abi begoTten for your language don change meaning??

Ubenedictus: nobody said God is 3, we said in one God there are 3 person. Learn to differentiate person from being

This is heresy......

There are no 3. Persons in 1 God.....not @ al!!!!!!............l

The bible till today doesn't support this...........

Rather it is ""listen O isreal,Yahweh our GOD is 1 Yahweh""...

Learn to quote clear scriptures to support this catholic doctrine....

Ubenedictus: and all christians must obey christ wu said that he shuld b honor as his fada is. The honor given to d fada is worship, the son asked for d same honor, are u xtian gonna tell christ he doesnt deserve it? Besides my bible tell me that the father confirms that all the angels shuld worship his son. Ijawkid u are on ur own here, both fada and son must be worship and glorified.
Peace

You can't worship 2 persons...that 'll be idolatry.....

Honour and revere Jesus the high priest of God ,but give full worship to Yahweh.......

Yahweh is the only true God....abi u never read that part for bible??

italo: I only asked you a question: what was being celebrated there?

Ñothing specific was been celebratÉd there that should call for commemoration........

Christmas has no place in the bible......

If at this age you still hold on to xmas then you gotta read bro,,,,,

Xmas is F-a-l-s-e

matrix789: Heb 7:3
3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

HE HAS NO BEGINNING AND ENDING. So who is HE?

He isn't God almighty.....he is melchizedek....:-)

matrix789: The Sonship of Jesus is HYPOSTATIC. it is not biological.
Jesus was not created because he is the Almighty God.
the truth is that Trinity is way beyound we mortals.

Hmmmm....

.So Jesus and the Father both have no beginning??

But bible says 1 was begotten while the other is the begetter......

Think of that......

Goshen360: Haaaaaaa, So angels did creation or participated in creation right.....You need to use scriptures to prove "IT MUST HAVE BEEN TALKING TO ANGELS". You confidently can say the "us" in Genesis 1:26 is Christ and yet Yahweh MUST have been talking to Angels That's Interesting! Where was it recorded that Angels did Create WITH God, Yahweh.

I have sent you an email. Check your inbox.

I'm not saying us refers to the angels...I was only trying to prove that elohim is referring to(Yahweh alone) was the one who said let us make man in our image..

I'm stressing that the elohim though in plural form is exclusively for God the Father and not a host of Gods .....that agrees with all the times elohim was used 35 times in the creation account..... And that also agrees with the plural form(Yahweh) that was used in deuteronomy 6:4......

Goshen360: You and I will dance round and come back to the truth. Now you said, "I can confidently say that the us in genesis 1:26 primarily refers to Jesus......." This matter is very simple to the truth of the bible. The same truth I tried to use John 1:1 to prove abi you need kain ni.....since John 1:1 identified 2 God to us in creation, the Elohim as USED in Genesis 1:1 will then mean plural of person more than also plural of majesty since the same is used in Genesis 1:26 and you say He is Jesus and john 1:1 tells us this Jesus (Word) is God according to John 1:1......Send me email, make I give you suprise int'l call NOW. . We can then proceed to the Holy Spirit being God.

Lol....ur getin it all wrong my elder brother....:-)....

Elohim said to his son::::let us make man in our own image...

If Jesus is in that elohim in genesis 1:26,then Elohim(triune Godhead) must have been talking to the angels.....

Elohim in genesis 1:1 exclusively is reffered to Yahweh the almighty...

If not genesis 1:1 should have read ""in the beginning (Gods) created the heaven and earth"".......

Hope u get my point??

The jewish people never for once thought that elohim in genesis 1:1 was a host of Gods making 1 God.....no way goshen....

debosky: Ask your brother frosbel - he introduced this idea of 'essence', and has since refused to show us where Jesus' 'essence' is different.

You are for ""Yahweh and Jesus are of the same essence""....that's why I asked that you define essence...

Goshen360: Okay if it was Yahweh that is the God that Genesis 1:1 is directed to, then you also need to answer the question.....who are the "us" in verse 26 I don't know you best to communicate my thought to you. Creation is NOT ascribes to ONLY Yahweh. We just read in Colossians and John 1:3 that ALL THINGS are made THROUGH Christ and also the Father, Yahweh, How then do we ascribe creation to ONLY the Father? Huh, HOW?

Yahweh is the Grand creator.....now that's what I'm saying.....

Jesus his son was Yahwehs agent..


You and I know who an agent is(that's why the word ""through"" is used)....

While Jesus was the agent ,Yahweh gets all the glory in everything,because he is the over all source of life.......

I can confidently say that the us in genesis 1:26 primarily refers to Jesus.......

God(Yahweh) said that to his son who he used as his agent............

So you see my point on the ""elohim"" issue.??

You gotta be consistent brother......

debosky: A simple question - where is the difference in essence that you mention?



Jesus simply confirmed what he said earlier and did not controvert the understanding of the Jews. By saying I and the Father, he was calling himself the Son of God. In no sense did he deny his earlier statement that He and the Father are ONE. He did not call the Jews liars here - he simply said they should not accuse him of blasphemy because he spoke the truth.

Furthermore he continued in the same vein - . . . that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father..

Again I ask, where is the separation of 'essence' here?

You have been mentioning essence.....can you please define the essence you are talking about??....

Thank you!!!!.....

Goshen360: Na wha for you my brother. My issue about Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1 is due to the truth that they both mention and started with the Phrase "in the beginning". And they both made this phrase in connection with CREATION account. Context is everything my brother. If Elohim is used as plural in one context doesn't mean it will be used as plural in another context. I just proved the fact and truth that the "God" mentioned in Genesis 1:1 is plural in number, using John 1:1 because they both talked about "in the beginning and creation. It is not just plural of majesty or name, number is included.

If you DONT have problem with Jesus in His Deity and being called God through whom creation exist. Then we are fine. We can move on the the Holy Spirit as being God. Let me know when you are ready.

You can't just pick out genesis 1:1 and forfeit the rest 34 places where this same elohim is used in the creation verses......

That won't be context anymore.....

In genesis 1:26 you love so much we find out that ""elohim"" said,let us make man in our own image....

If the elohim which is in plural form that was used in genesis 1:1 is the same used in genesis 1:26 then I wonder who was the God who made that statement......

If according to your assertion elohim in genesis 1:1 means (three Gods) ,then how do u tally that with genesis 1:26??

Who is the God(elohim in plural) and who are the us??

My problem is we both agree that Jesus was the agent through which creation took place,but don't ascribe a triune Godhead to the elohim mentioned @ genesis 1:1....it doesn't fit bro......

Yahweh who is the 1 true God over all is whom genesis 1:1 is directed to....

Goshen360: Okay. I know what you are saying. I also want us (you and I) to be objective in our discourse. Otherwise, we will just be jumping and ranting all over the thread. I have stated clearly using scriptures, not my own words....Jesus said the Father is Greater than him. Herein I stand. The Apostle also said, the Head of Christ is God....by "God" the Apostle meant the Father. The Philippians 2:6 also says Christ himself did not thought it to be EQUAL with God, God here in this context is the Father, Yahweh confirming the words of Christ as per John 14:28. Herein I stand and very clear. The father is Greater than Christ and doesn't mean Jesus is NOT also God. Do you understand my stance




Okay.....My principle are always using scripture to explain scripture.....Okay. Now, this is how I understand that the bible proves the word "God" in the context of Genesis 1:1 is Plural of person and NOT just plural of majesty or just a name of deity. Please follow my careful explanation below:

Genesis 1:1, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Here it mentions a phrase, "in the beginning". Another verse ampliplied Genesis 1:1 telling us about same phrase of "in the beginning". That is John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". Now we have two verse from scriptures that talks about same phrase "in the beginning" and both are related to CREATION. Both doesn't suggest God has a beginning for God is Eternal.

Now, the verse in John 1:1 made us understand the plural of the "God" of Genesis 1:1 but it doesn't call it God"s". John 1:1 says, the Word is God and it also says the Word was with God. It therefore means from the context of John 1:1, there is God that the Word was with and also still identifies the Word as God. Is the word just an expression by which we communicate our thought according to John 1:1? The answer is NO. How did we understand the Word is NOT just the type we speak? First, the bible uses the lower case "w" to differentiate. The Word as per John 1:1 is Christ and He is called God. Second, John in verse 2 personifies "the Word" which he talked about in verse one and uses "He". It therefore means a spoken word cannot be "He". It means He is a person or being. This is how we understand the plurality of the word "God" in Genesis 1:1 to be person using scriptures to explain scriptures.

Both John and the Apostles now ascribe CREATION to "the Word" who is Christ saying that, "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made".(NIV). NLT says and mention creation ascribed to HIM...."God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him". In context, the God in verse 3 of John 1 is the Father, the "him" is Christ (not a spoken word but a being) and it relates to CREATION. The Apostle Paul puts it same and similar way in Colossians 1:16, "For by him (that is Christ) all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him". If ALL things were created by him and John calls him God that was WITH God, the Father or Yahweh according to NLT in John 1:1,3....If he is called God, it therefore proves the plurality of numbers in the meaning of God as mentioned in Genesis 1:1. Let me stop here a while and let me get your response.

Jesus being the agent Yahweh used in creating the things in heaven and on earth isn't what I'm arguing....I believe that through Jesus,creation occured.....

Our issue here is with the word ""elohim"" in genesis 1:1 in the plural form.....

your quoting john 1:1 doesn't still show that the elohim in genesis 1:1 is referring to a triune Godhead....no and never!!!...

...The title ""elohim"" draws attention to Yahwehs strength as the creator..In that same genesis the word ""elohim"" appears 35 times by itself in the aCcount of creation,and every time the verb describing what he said and did is in the singular number(genesis 1:1-2:4)........

I asked you my brother...::::

The plural elohim was used in deuteronomy 6:4.....can you please prove how plural the elohim used in that verse can get to prove that it is talking about a triune Godhead....

I'll also want u to read judges 16:23....

23 Now the rulers of the Philistines
assembled to offer a great sacrifice to Dagon
their god and to celebrate, saying, “Our god
has delivered Samson, our enemy, into our
hands.”

In that verse ""elohim"" was used....but ofcus we know how many Gods were mention there in judges 16:23.....

Yahweh like I've always said is the almighty,The God over all,the God of Christ,is the God mentioned there in genesis 1:1.......

For you to assume and conclude that elohim in genesis 1:1 is referring to a triune Godhead will be inconsistent with the rest of genesis and the whole bible and spurious..............

I want u to apply your elohim analogy to deuteronomy 6:4...that reads...

Young's Literal Translation
Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God(ELOHIM plural) is one
Jehovah;....

Elohim there is in the plural form...would you say it means there are 3 Yahwehs that is one God??

Because the one God there is associated to Yahweh alone....and Jesus himself made this known....

You saying the elohim in genesis 1:1 in the plural form must mean the triune Gods then you gotta read d whole of genesis very well.....

No Jew would pick up genesis 1:1 and begin to think of the elohim mentioned there representing 3 co-equal Gods......never!!!!...

Only a trinitarian would think that way.....

italo: I am still waiting for you to show me where the Bible says "Christmas is a pagan holiday." If you can't show me I will take it that you are talking nonsense.

Meanwhile ponder these verses and tell me what was being celebrated there.

9 After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. 10 When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. 11 On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.

And that verse u quoted is the basis for xmas celebration....

You must be on shekpe.......

And please where is december 25th on that verse??and where is the xmas tree??

You mr man are just 1 hell of a pagan....

italo: So your problem is the "bowing."

That would mean that Yoruba people who prostrate to their elders worship them. Yes or no.

Humans can be shown honor by persons prostrating(form of greeting with respect)...

But we are talking about lifeless objects.....

Nobody bows down to the bible.......the bible is a book.....

Goshen360: Why are you dodging this question. Context applies as you rightly said. I want you to explain the plurality of the context of Genesis 1:1 for the word "God"

I just replied u ......

Elohim mentioned @ genesis 1:1 in no way suggests a host of Gods( particularly the triune Gods) in a Godhead....

Genesis 1:1 solely refers to Yahweh the almighty....

Gbam!!!!

Goshen360: Abeg no allow Frosbel run away today. I want to get him and you also today. Okay, let's handle issue one after the other. Since you believe and accept that not ONE person is called God in the bible from your statement,

"I think we should stick to names and not titles...because the title ""God ""can refer to just any person....."

On the issue of equality......Jesus said and I believe,

New International Version (©1984)
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. John 14:28.

About the words of Apostle Paul that Jesus having the nature of God but did not thought it to be equal with God,

New International Version (©1984)
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

New Living Translation (©2007)
Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Philippians 2:6.

I don't think this is too hard to understand. If you understand this, back to Genesis 1:1....The word "God" there is Elohim and is PLURAL....How do you understand that....Ijawkid

I don't know where you are arriving at as to the co-equality issue.....

Lucidly express your stance......

Jesus being in the nature of God,does that make him equal with Yahweh??...

I really wanna hear you say something....

As to the word ""elohim"" it conveys no thought of plurality of persons within a Godhead.......shikena

The hebrew word ""elohim""(gods) appears to be from a root meaning ""be strong""..Elohim is the plural of eloh'ah(god)..sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods(you can read genesis 31:30,32;;35:2),but more often it is used as a plural of majesty,dignity or excellence..Elohim is used in the scriptures with reference to Yahweh himself,to angels,to idol gods(singular and plural) and to men.....


You could go throught deuteronomy 6;4...

It uses the word ""elohim""....try fixing up plurality to the word elohim @ deuteronomy and let's see how it works........

Ihedinobi: @bolded, bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..........sure you did.

You trust me na....

I'm ever ready to do my job.....:-)

Goshen360: Okay.....can you explain how the word "God" that is translated Elohim and is Plural will mean Let's go/start from there

If u don't follow the rules of context,we might end up concluding that all the places the hebrew word ""Elohim"" is used its always reffering to plural Gods...

Ready??....

Goshen360: Jesus said the Father is greater than him......That answers the question of being co-equal or not. The Apostle says Jesus even though was God did not thought it to be equal with the Father. That answers it right there again. As for the Holy Spirit being God.....Let's start this way......When it is said that God is Eternal.....How do you understand that God is Eternal

Apostle said what??

Even though Jesus was God abi?? Which God??start explaining which God Jesus was....
Was he a divine being or a co-equal God with the Father??

God being eternal means God has no beginning,that God can and was never begotten.....

I think we should stick to names and not titles...because the title ""God ""can refer to just any person.....

Let's stick to Yahweh(God almighty) and Jesus......I think that'll make perfect sense......

And you haven't really cleared the air on co-equality.....

You seem to be hanging on the fence....

Is Yahweh greater than his son??

Is Yahweh the God of Jesus??

Do we share d same God with Jesus??.....

Goshen360: The bible says, Prove ALL thing, right!........I demanded you/us to prove who are the "us". Did Angels created anything Didn't the bible ascribe creation with the Father, Yahweh Didn't the scripture ascribe creation with Jesus Didn't the Holy scriptures ascribed creation with the Holy Spirit By the way why are you avoiding the initial question and playing smart on me.......The word "God" in Genesis 1:1 is Elohim and it is PLURAL, not singular...HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT

Are u implying that when genesis 1:1 says ""in the beginning "God" created the heavens and earth,that the God there is the triune GOD??

Goshen Oooooo.......

Goshen360: Thank you my brother. I will soon start to expose the falsehood of Trinity in some later thread. When people say Jesus is same as the father, this is heresy. I do not believe Jesus is the Father, I believe they are different BUT I stand by the bible truth that Jesus is God, The Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. It is NOT one God playing 3 different roles and yet the bible teaches God is one. We will get there soon. Thank you.

Are they co-equal??u forgot that bro.....trinitarians say the Father and his son Jesus are equal in everything....heresy or not??

Besides we still have the holy spirit issue to deliberate on.....

Goshen360: Good question. This is one issue you have - waiting to read EXPLICITLY where the Bible says God is Three. If that is what you are looking out to read. Am sorry to burst your bubble, you wont read that explicitly BUT the same Bible calls or identified Three being as God. What possible explanation can we then give to this as interpretation And the Bible also says God is One. How do we explain God is One and yet same Bible calls Three being God This is where hard study play the role. Let us start this way from the very first verse of the bible that tells us about God, the first mention of God.

New International Version (©1984)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

The word "God" here is Elohim and it is plural.......The Bible also consistently ascribe creation to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. How do you explain that.

Let me come in...

And does the bible say that these 3 Gods are co-equal and make up 1 GOD??

Thanks....

Goshen360: Okay, you are let loosed then. My contention is with you and Frosbel denying the deity of Christ as God. Good you cleared yourself. I will later proceed to the Holy Spirit as God later on today or this week. I get time for you and Frosbel this week....E be like say I don keep quite for too long and una don show una self for too long. Thank you for clearing yourself.

You are welcome bro....

Ready your scriptures to prove that the holy spirit is God o.....

I dey kampe.....

Remember::::::.......my mission here is to make sure that persons know that Yahweh is greater than Jesus and that Jesus isn't the almighty(Yahweh is the God of Jesus).....that Yahweh and his son aren't co-equal.....

My job is to re-direct and make persons appreciate Jesus's role as mediator and high priest......too many persons have been obssessed with the trinity that they've flung Yahweh(The God and Father of Jesus Christ,and the God over all) into the dust bin...

Reducing Yahweh to be equal with his Son is what i can't sit down and watch....

Many insinuating that Yahweh died because of this same triology doctrine is what I will not be part of.....


The definition of the trinity does not tally with the bible......

Thank you!!!!....

italo: What is funny is that at your age you don't know what a "yes or no question" is, and how to answer it.

The analogy u used doesn't fit the discussion....

If people bow down to the bible then it would have been a perfect comparison with the mary""worship"".....

I was expecting you to compare the mary image worship with the numerous idols been worshipped by the buddhists and hindu's...

It got me surprised when you used the bible...

Goshen360: Okay @ Ijawkid my dear brother,

I gave you two scriptures and you turned them down. Let's keep going and I give you another shot that refutes all anti-Jesus as God and let's see what you have to say about it since you are now arguing Jesus is NOT God.

New International Version (©1984)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

Here, there is a "Word", not the one used to express your thought and communicated as identified with lower case "w" but "W", the "W"ord. In this verse, there is a "the Word" (not "a" Word) that was WITH GOD and that last phrase says "and the Word was God". You guys have said, it was a spoken word that is used in expression of thought and communication BUT verse two refutes you,

He was with God in the beginning. John 1:2

Now how do you explain verse two that personifies the Word and used "He".....repeating the same phrase "was WITH God" of verse one. CAN A WORD USED TO EXPRESS THOUGHT BE "HE" IF HE IS NOT A BEING/PERSON

Mind u goshen I didn't refute those verses u quoted,I only spotted out errors in the translations you used,while I brought and used translations that actually explains. The verses better and that agrees with the rest of the scriptures.....

As for Jesus being the Word that was with GOD,it seems you got it wrong thinking that I believe that ""the Word mentioned there was a spoken expression""....I don't agree with that...

So direct your question well....

Thanks my bro

italo: It is you guys that say, anything NOT in the Bible shouldn't be believed or practised. So if your evidence is not from the Bible, why should we believe it?

Besides, the Bible contains evidence of so many pagan practices and we both know it. Is Christmas among them? Yes or No.

If yes, show me the book, chapter and verse.

Oh you are asking me??

Keep asking.....

You attach christmas to the bible....people who see clearly say it has nothing to do with the bible....

We have proof that it is not in the bible...

You should be proving otherwise....

Its pagan bro.....

Did Jesus celebrate his birthday??if he did abeg show me and stop telling me to show u where the scriptures say xmas is a pagan holiday...

Ihedinobi: @bolded: how's that for an excuse?

As for disproving you with "trinitarian" versions, abeg, don't make me laugh. How many passages have been quoted to you that you did not immediately "correct" with your own skills at translating ancient languages or "debunk" with a parallel from another version? Have you ever been able to show from the very same version how the thing said by one passage contradicts that said by another?

Do you even know anything about the principle of non-contradiction? Smh

You need serious help.........

Your stance on the trinity alone contradicts all the existing bible translations put together....


You guys wÉre the ones Ðoing the cherry picking,while I had to help out with translation errors....

You suppose to dey tell me thank you sef....lol....

italo: Both of you are not exempted. The Bible is a part of Catholic tradition. Jesus never mentioned it. The Bible never mentioned it. So if you believe in the Bible, you are also daughters of the Mother Church, only bad daughters.

Lmao......

Oh so u have to resort to the ""the bible is a part of catholic"" position...right??

How can the catholics produce a book(the bible) that dis-agrees with almost every of there doctrines and creeds??

italo: I wasn't yelling. I was only reminding her of what St. Paul said to women, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.



I will show you. After you show me where the Bible says that "Christmas is a pagan holiday." You are the one making allegations.



No problem. Just show me where the Bible says all these things you just said, then I'll believe.



It's what St. Paul said...and St. Paul was speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Why should the bible provide you with info to support a pagan holiday ??

Abi the bible na pagans get am??

It will be like trying to find answers to account problems from a thermodynamics textbook...:-)....