₦airaland Forum

haibe: God with us, if he is not God, he can never be called God. Why are you S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ childish. Φƙα̲̅ψ why is it only Jesus ☺₪ earth that was called God?

haibe: @chiteny the biblical evidence for the divinity of
Christ is overwhelming. Only a person who is
spiritually blind would deny this fact. There are
many passages in the Bible which specifically
refer to Jesus Christ as God.
(1) The prophet Isaiah identifies the
future Messiah as Immanuel which means “God
with us” (Isa. 7:14). He says the Christ child is
“the Mighty God, the everlasting Father, the
Prince of Peace” (Isa. 9:6-7). Jeremiah refers
to the coming King as “The LORD Our
Righteousness” (Jer. 23:5-6) Jesus is literally
“Jehovah Our Righteousness.” Micah says that
the Messiah is not a created being; He is God
Almighty who has existed “from
everlasting” (Mic. 5:2). Malachi describes
Christ as the Lord who comes to His temple to
judge Israel (Mal. 3:1-2). The Psalmist of Israel
says that the messianic throne is God’s own
throne (Ps. 45:1, 6-7). In Psalm 2 the phrase
“the Son” is set poetically in parallel with
Jehovah. The Son and the Father are equal in
power and glory (see Ps. 110:1).
(2) The apostle John says that “the
Word was with God, and the Word was God
(1:1). All things were made by God’s Son (1:2-3).
And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among
us (1:14). When the apostle Thomas saw the
risen Messiah he “said unto Him, My Lord and
my God” (Jn. 20:28). Jesus identified Himself
as Jehovah when He said “before Abraham was
I AM” (Jn. 8:57-59). Our Lord’s enemies
understood that Christ taught His own divinity
when they said that Jesus “said that God was
His Father, making Himself equal with God” (Jn.
5:17-26). When the Savior said “I and my
Father are one,” the Jews took up stones again
to stone Him “…because that thou, being a man,
makest thyself God” (Jn. 10:33). Instead of
emphatically denying that He was God, Jesus
told the Jews that His works proved that He
was divine, “that the Father is in Me, and I in
Him” (Jn. 10:39). Jesus told the apostle John,
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning
and the end….He that overcometh shall inherit
all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be
my son” (Rev. 21:6-7).
(3) The apostle Paul says that “Christ…
is…the eternally blessed God” (Rom. 9:6), who
before the incarnation existed “in the form of
God” (Phil. 2:5-. “He is the image of the
invisible God” who created everything (Col.
1:15-16). Paul teaches, “For in Him dwelleth all
the fullness of the Godhead bodily” (Col.
2:8-10). Therefore, it is appropriate for the
apostle to refer to Jesus as “The King eternal,
immortal, invisible, the only wise God” (1 Tim.
2:3-4); as “God our Savior” (1 Tim. 2:3-4;Tit.
1:3; 2:10); or, “our great God and Savior” (Tit.
2:13); or, “the only wise God our Savior” (Jude
25). Paul says that only the King of kings “hath
immortality, dwelling in the light which no man
can approach unto” (1 Tim. 6:14-16). The author
of the Hebrews says that God the Father
explicitly identifies the Son as God. “But unto
the Son he saith, ‘Thy throne, O God, is for
ever and ever” (Heb. 1:.
(4) There are a number of instances in
the Bible where the names “Son of God” and
“Lord” indicate Christ’s essential deity. For the
title “Son of God” used in a Trinitarian sense
see: Mt. 11:27; 14:26, 33; 16:16; 21:33-46;
22:41-46; 26:63-65. For passages in which the
title “Lord” indicates deity see: Lk. 2:11; 3:4-6;
1 Cor. 12:3; Phil. 2:11.There are many Old
Testament passages which speak of God or
Jehovah which are taken by the Spirit inspired
authors of the New Testament and applied
directly to Jesus Christ (e.g., read Isa. 40:3—
Mt. 3:3; Mal. 4:5-6—Lk. 1:17; Isa. 45:22-23—
Rom. 14:10; cf. Phil. 2:10; Ps. 68:17-18—Eph.
4:7-8; Ps. 45:6-7—Heb. 1:6-9; Ps. 102:1, 25-27
—Heb. 1:8-12; Dt. 31:6—Heb. 13:5; etc.). These
parallels between Jehovah and Jesus are so
explicit one could say that “the whole New
Testament is based upon the thought that
there is…[an] essential unity between Jesus
Christ and the covenant of the God of
Israel.”

haibe: @kola oloye how can you explain john1:1 and Hebrews 1:8"but unto the son he saith: Thy
throne, O God, is for
ever and ever - If this
be said of the Son of
God, i.e. Jesus Christ,
then Jesus Christ must
be God; and indeed the
design of the apostle
is to prove this. The
words here quoted are
taken from Psalm
45:6.

MsDarkSkin: Hilarity.





Case is NOT closed. B and C are meant to emphasize that they believed he would have prophet like abilities. If you are suggesting they ( b/c) meant that he was THE CREATOR, then you will notice they contradict NUMBER 2: "SON OF GOD".

Mind you the terms "God" and "Lord" << especially were used to describe people of significance and power. What is the owner of a land or property called? "landLORD". Such was the case in ancient European societies to describe nobility and owners of property. Their power made them God like.

The Bible was being translated to English at those same times (Old English) and those were the only terms they could use to describe the influence and power of Jesus. The SUPREME BEING and ALMIGHTY GOD were used to describe the ULTIMATE, the CREATOR. Jesus was not that.

Now, another key thing is that the bible has been reprinted over twenty times. People who did not understand the power of translation and the context because they did not know how to interpret the meanings, failed to realize the point. The point is that this child upon being born was dubbed "ordained to lead" and thus called God like, so they (those who do not understand the importance of ACCURATE translation and interpretation) printed "MIGHTY GOD", which is false.

Let's say there was a tribe where "Selay Tunoo" meant "Rising Star". And a child is born and named "Selay Tunoo" BECAUSE he was born at dusk or was unusually pleasant at birth (something like that), and he grew to do good things. And people wrote about him. Lets say in order to tell his story so that the whole world could understand, they called him "The Sun"...they would be right along the lines because the Sun is a form of a Star but OFF because it meant specifically "RISING STAR". So by calling Jesus "God" or "Lord" it doesn't mean he was the CREATOR, it just means he was a great man of influence....its just another case of poor translation and misinterpretation.

nyameke: ok stop it woman because you are absolutely not making any sense..All your are doing is making baseless assumptions..You are wrong and I don't have the time to respond to all that but I leave you with this..

Yahweh/Jesus is Prime Creator of All-That-Is because:

“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” - John 1:3

Colossians 1:16 “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence..
The Bible also says “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be save

Btw I have already explained on another thread a while back why Yahweh is jesus so no need to explain that again..

BBDelta: You really look like Paul,

@ijawkid, These one when you still be kid how come you know all these? abi u too follow for the confusion. The only thing I know is if something is not correct then it is wrong, I don't care who did the wrong, the most important thing is that it should become right!!! how can 2 + 2 = 5.

italo: Madness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

buzugee: Yezzur. He gives life and takes life. no one else do that. he do it all Chief. Or he just allows it to happen. so he can bring it or allow it to happen ( proverbs 16 vs 4 )

buzugee: Yezzur. He gives life and takes life. no one else do that. he do it all Chief. Or he just allows it to happen. so he can bring it or allow it to happen ( proverbs 16 vs 4 )

dorox: My honest opinion is that you made no sense at all, read through ijawkid's explanation of philipians 2:1-12 and judge for yourself if it is not consistent with what jesus said about himself in the bible.

BBDelta: By Femi Aribisala

Paul’s illogicality cannot be the word of “the only wise God.”

There is no one in the bible as illogical as Paul. He claims he preached the gospel: “not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.” (1 Corinthians 1:17). Nevertheless, Luke says: “(Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath.” (Acts 18:4). Paul’s “reasoning” is often incoherent and contradictory. To accept some of the things he says, one has to take leave of one’s senses.

Contradictions galore

Paul maintains salvation is not contingent upon our works, but is “by grace through faith” in Jesus Christ. (Ephesians 2:8-9). Then he puts his foot in his mouth by saying to the Galatians: “You who attempt to be justified by law have fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4). But if grace is unmerited favour, then a man cannot fall from it. If the favour is unmerited, it cannot be lost by demerits. Paul says we were “bought at a price,” ostensibly by Christ. (1 Corinthians 6:20). But only slaves are bought; sons are not bought but birthed. Then he says we are forgiven. (Colossians 2:13). But if we are forgiven, nobody needs to pay for us; and if we are paid for, then we don’t need to be forgiven.

Paul says: “there is none righteous, no not one.” (Romans 3:10). He then boxes himself into a corner by saying: “the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9). But if there is none righteous and only the righteous will inherit, where then will God find the righteous who will inherit his kingdom? Paul just cannot think straight. His defective logic about the non-existence of the righteous does not even recognise “Jesus Christ the righteous.” (1 John 2:1). Compare Paul’s irreverent generalization to Jesus’ recognition of God’s exceptionality. Jesus says: “No one is good but One, that is, God.” (Matthew 19:17).

In 1 Corinthians 2:14, Paul sets a trap for himself and falls into it. He says: “The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” Then he says: “However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.” (1 Cor 15:46). But if the natural is first, how can the natural then become spiritual when, according to Paul’s ingenuity, the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God? Thereby, Paul nullifies his own doctrine and shows it to be idiotic.

Convoluted logic

Paul tries to compare the coming of the New Testament with the second marriage of a widow. But he muddles everything up; casting serious doubts on his alleged Pharisee training. He says: “The woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. .. Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another- to Him who was raised from the dead.” (Romans 7:2/4). But a widow does not die because her husband dies. A dead wife does not remarry. In actual fact, it is Christ, the “new husband,” who died. The law, the “old husband,” is still alive.

Quoting Epidemedes, Paul says: “One of them, a prophet of their own, said, ‘Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.’” Surprisingly, Paul agrees with this, saying: “This testimony is true.” (Titus 1:12-13). But if Cretans are always liars, this statement by one of them must also be false. Thereby, Paul trips on his own shoe-laces once again.

Double-mindedness

Paul comes up with this lofty principle: “Whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.” (Galatians 6:7-. However, he then nullifies it by insisting those who sow to the spirit should reap in the flesh. He says: “If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things?” (1 Corinthians 9:11). This is the hypocritical theology of the money-minded con-man which has so many adherents in the pastors of today.

Paul says: “The doers of the law shall be justified.” (Romans 2:13). Then he contradicts himself in the same breath: “By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified.” (Romans 3:20). He says to the Galatians: “Bear one another’s burdens.” (Galatians 6:2). Then he says: “Each one shall bear his own load.” (Galatians 6:5). If each man shall bear his own load, how can we then bear one another’s burdens? Paul says: “All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law.” (Romans 2:12). Then he contradicts himself by saying: “where there is no law, there is no transgression.” (Romans 4:15). If, as he says, no law means no sin; how then can he also say no law means sin leading to condemnation?

Listen to Paul in his own self-implicating words. He says to the Thessalonians: “Our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, NOR IN GUILE.” (1 Thessalonians 2:3). Then he says to the Corinthians: “I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you WITH GUILE.” (2 Corinthians 12:16). In short, by his own account, Paul is not deceptive and he also is. Which of these is the infallible word of Paul? Certainly, such illogicality cannot be the word of “the only wise God.” (Romans 16:27).

Nonsensical Christology

Lagos drivers are terrible. We drive with scant regard for traffic laws. We drive on the pavements and on the wrong sides of the road. We beat red lights, violate one-way traffic signs, and park in no-parking zones.

But one day, a man called Jesus came to Lagos. He was a perfect driver and he obeyed scrupulously all the traffic laws. In recognition for his fastidiousness, the Lagos State Government repealed all traffic laws on the grounds that Jesus had fulfilled them. Any man who believes in Jesus is then deemed to have also obeyed all the laws. Nevertheless, the government sent Jesus himself to the firing squad for violating traffic laws, even though in actual fact he had obeyed them all.

This is a parody of Paul’s Christology. Why should Christians believe such arrant nonsense?

With the repeal of all traffic laws because of Jesus’ perfect obedience, would Lagos drivers automatically become “new creatures” on the roads? No! What if Paul maintains: “there is now no condemnation for Lagos drivers?” (Romans 8:1). Would that improve the situation? Not likely! What if Paul declares: “There is no good driver, no, not one.” (Romans 3:10). Would that make the difference? Certainly not! What if Paul tells Lagos drivers all things are lawful on the roads, but they should avoid things that are not expedient? (1 Corinthians 6:12). Would they therefore drive with circumspection? Definitely not! What if Paul reassures Lagosians the Chief Judge of the state now “justifies ungodly drivers?” (Romans 4:5). Would that make them good drivers? Absolutely not!

And yet, that is the foolishness and ludicrousness of Pauline Christianity.

Source: http://www.vanguardngr.com/2012/06/illogical-christianity/


Why should I ever quote or take Paul seriously.....??

Mr_Anony: @Ijawkid; Why do you keep on conveniently ignoring this passage of scripture?

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Philipians 2:5-8 (NIV)

Are you truly seeking the truth or do you just like the sound of your own voice so much that you stubbornly block out all other reason except those that agree with your erroneous presumptions?

bright007: Thanks to poster 4 dis thread.I have wondered all along if catholics read their bible or don't have an original version of d bible.there ar so many of their activities dat are clearly against bible principles.
Ŵĥŷ would one confess one's sins to ťĥĕ pope in order to be forgiven by God?
Ŵĥŷ do catholics have graven images all over their place of worship $ bow especially to d image depicting mary?

Niflheim: king james who ordered the translation of the bible was gay,the present queen of england is the grand patroness of the freemasons and at the same time the head of the church of england,the archbishop of canterbury is druid,and martin luther who started protestantism was amorc and that is why till today the lutheran church uses the symbol of the rose and cross.

nyameke: Let's also look at how greater than is used in the bible and what jesus really meant when he said that..

In the first place, the term for "greater" does not necessarily imply one who is greater in nature or essence. It can refer to someone or something being greater in position and/or authority... It is quite clear Jesus was talking bout position or rank in that context .. but let's look at some scriptures:

"I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." Matthew 11:11

John being greater than all those born of women does not imply that the rest were less human than John, or that they were inferior to John in nature. Here, the term must mean that John was greater in position and rank.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master,nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him." John 13:16

Both the slave and the one sent are just as human as the master and the sender, having the same human essence and nature that the master and sender have. Thus, greater here must mean in position and authority, not in essence and nature.

"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these,because I am going to the Father." John 14:12

The disciples did not perform better works, but performed a greater number of works than Christ since they reached far more people than Jesus did while he was on earth. Hence, the term "greater" refers to quantity, the amount of works, as opposed to quality since the disciples performed the same type of works but in far greater number.

Once you begin to understand the context of how "greater " is used in these context then you will begin to understand what the messiah meant...
Ok now let's try to tie all these together.. The Scriptures teach that when Christ became a man, he assumed the role and position of a slave/servant:

"For who is the greater, one who reclines at table or one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at table? But I am among you as the one who serves." Luke 22:27


5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross..Phil.2:5-8..
Rom 9:5: “according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.”

In becoming a man something changed since he was not in a servant role to the Father before He became man. This was a change of position, not a change in nature. He, as God, could not empty himself of His essential nature, since unchangeableness is part of his nature. All His attributes are eternal so he could not eliminate any but he could put them aside in using them as He entered time and space to manifest to us as man..

Thus, as long as Christ remained on earth in the form and position of a humble slave, enduring persecution, insults, injury, and subsequently the shame of the cross, the Father would be greater in position and honor. Once Christ returns to heaven to be seated alongside his Father, he would no longer be in that state of humiliation. He would share, once again, that same divine glory and sovereign authority that he had with the Father before he had come to the earth as a man:

"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was... Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." John 17:5, 24

To conclude yes the Father was greater but in position and rank (I hope you understand why now), not in essence and nature..in their essence or core they are equal because they are one and the same. One is not more powerful and greater in all ramifications like you alluded to...

Now we can move on to other questions you have sorry if second part took a while I got a little busy...

buzugee: My bad, Field Marshall, i aint exactly read through the other thread just yet but ill get to it though.Hey i aint definitively saying they are one. all am saying is they are sporting the same sage-whitish afro. thats all a brother is saying.

Logic Mind: seek and you shall find.

nyameke: lol I knew your understanding of greater as used in the bible was your stumbling block...The issue here is why would jesus say the Father is greater than I and then claim to be equal with God.. A lot of people have issues with that and thus their unwillingness to accept jesus as God..

Now all your claims are false.. Yahweh is not more and all powerful than jesus and he is also not greater than jesus atleast not in the way you understand it..

Here is the passage in question that people dwell on:
"You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you ' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." John 14:28

We will get to what jesus meant when he said this but first we have to establish something ..I told you we will go step by step.( btw I'm using my phone so bare with me) we have to establish the divinity and deity of jesus as one with the father using the scriptures and what he himself said..( I remember on another thread I explained why Yahweh is the same thing as Yashua)

In titus 2:13 the bible talks about jesus as a great God
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ"

In deut. Jesus Christ ascribes to himself the very exclusive rights of Deity:

“See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life,I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.” Deuteronomy 32:39

“Yes, and from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?” Isaiah 43:13

A careful look at most of John chapter 14 have Jesus claiming to have all of God's omni-attributes:
"And I WILL DO whatever you ask IN MY NAME, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask ME for anything in my name, AND I WILL DO IT." John 14:13-14

Christ is capable of personally answering all prayers that are directed to him or are addressed in his name. The only way that Christ can both hear and answer all these prayers is if he is both omniscient and omnipotent

"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, AND I AM IN YOU. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." John 14:20-21

Jesus says that he is IN all the disciples, an impossible claim if he was only a man, or even an angel. But since Jesus is God, and since God is omnipresent, it therefore makes perfect sense for Christ to say he is able to dwell in all the believers at the same time

He also says in john 10:30 that he and the father are one.. You can clearly see that jesus is also claiming co equality with the father here.. 1+1=1 now that's an incredible claim... I could go on an quoting the bible about jesus and God being one and the same but I digress..

So back to the greater than question..Now if jesus is one with God then why would he claim in that quote that the father is greater than him?

nyameke: @ijawkid I will answer john 20 17 but before that we have to go step by step...You have to crawl before you walk so let's start from the core of your problem.. I had asked you what you mean by God the father been greater than God the son? In what way

haibe: Yes mattew 28:19 tells us jesus and the father are one, is NAME singular or PLURAL, well if you don't know, NAME is singular while NAMES is plural and singular means one. And the bible uses in the NAME of the father son and Holy spirit not NAMES which will mean the father and son are two different beings.
Once again yes Jesus(God in flesh) was lesser to the father because of the limitation of the flesh, the bible says he was made a bit lower than the angels (angels are powerful than men) but jesus in his divine nature is equal with the father, and that's why he layed down his life WILLFULLY, he has the power to say he wasn't dieing for our sins but he submitted to the will of the father. Jesus said "destroy this temple(his body) and I will build it back(resurrect) in three days, he said he himself will build it back and other verse said God raised Jesus, don't you still get the clue that Jesus is God himself, co-equal with the father and co-eternal (micah 5:2). When the jews charged Jesus for blasphemy that he says he is God, Jesus never deny that he was God, he even made it clearer. Read zechariah 12:10 God said "they shall look at ME whom they have pierced". Was God pierced? Can he be pierced?. He is telling you here that he is jesus christ that is pierced. Jesus is God. Lots and lots of passages tells us that. Only God is perfect in holiness, Jesus never sinned despite the temptations because he(God) has a holy nature. Let me leave you with this thought. When phillip asked jesus to show him the father, he said have ℓ̊ not been long here with you and yet you have not known ME, he that has seen me has seen the father. Phillip asked to see God, Jesus said so+ you have not known ME.. He is telling phillip, ℓ̊ am God myself, whatever you have seen in me is the same with the father, therefore if you have seen me yoy have seen the father. They are one. God bless you.