₦airaland Forum

cloudgoddess:
So it looks like you missed my point. If his conscience no longer pesters him about things that are not actually morally wrong and are only a result of religious conditioning, then there is nothing wrong with that whatsoever - infact it is a positive thing. What we call the "conscience" isn't some standalone entity that has exactly the same properties for everyone. It's a complex schema in our brains set up starting from birth, that takes information from our environment and experiences, and programs what is "right" and "wrong", from our perspective.

As an indoctrinated child learns from parents and preachers that certain things are "wrong" because God says so (like pre-marital sex), the child's conscience (or "good vs. bad" schema) is altered by that, and feelings of guilt now become associated with sex for him. That is not positive, or healthy, or natural, or a sign of increased morality. That is a misprogramming of guilt imbued by religion. If that "dies" that is a GOOD thing.

This does not mean his ENTIRE conscience is "deadened". It means unnececssary PARTS of that conscience were deconditioned as a result of withdrawing from tyrannical sky-daddy ideals.

Thanks for employing the quotes. i didn't miss your point as you had none, except you are just bringing up one. The OP's point was that his life is better because "I don’t feel guilty for doing what makes me happy", i referred to that as a case of deadened conscience. You said they were things no one needs to feel guilty for, that's your opinion, which everyone has and is entitled to.
So many thieves and sociopaths do not feel guilty but happy, regardless of religious conditioning. Some people did not feel bad killing twins and witches. It is a pointless case to say "i don't feel guilty, therefore i'm on the right path". Life is more than feelings. The OP missed it on that point, QED.

Who says they're fleeting? Who says they can't be based on consistencies observed throughout our experiences and the collective experiences of humanity? Who says aspects of morality can't be learned or improved upon? Just because the question of right/wrong can sometimes be tricky does not mean that we need to do away with logic altogether and turn to a 2,000 year old book written by savages instead (which recommends stoning women until their flesh tears apart for an absent hymen on their honeymoon). That is a nonsensical jump to make.

Your point is that the author is claiming to know morality from his own experience alone, and that by default makes it untrustworthy. I am arguing that NO it does not if he came to those conclusions from a sound & observant mind, willingness to learn, and empathy. If his opinions were influenced by POSITIVE, RATIONALLY THINKING sources (because all of our takes on morality are externally influenced in some way, including yours and especially including the bible's), then what is there to disagree with? What is there to distrust?

Every one should know that they are fleeting, subject to change. This is evident from the case of the OP. His opinion CHANGED from being religious to being irreligious.He had reasons for being religious, reasons for being unserious in religion, and new reasons for dropping religion. Who knows, tomorrow, he may have new reasons to be religious again. We cannot base our lives and standards on his fickleness. Now, how do you improve on morality? Where is the goal? How do we know we have arrived? What do you think are the marks and indices to show that we have at last reached the zenith of morality? Or you think we should keep on evolving? Today, action A is right, tomorrow it is wrong, 100 yrs time, it has evolved to right, and on and on, based on collective experiences of humanity and culture. That is a most irrational thing to do in my opinion. BTW, the Bible was not written by savages, that is a very ignorant position to take. Neither does it make anyone savages. The finest men and women i ever met and that you ever met were people who read and obeyed the Bible, from your grannies to your parents to your colleagues at work and school.

Not only is it okay but it's the only way we can do it, and the only way we've been doing it for all of humankind. Everything you mention is exactly why since the dawn of civilization people's moral codes have been EVOLVING. Changing. Not in the biological sense, but regarding the accumulation of human knowledge & understanding over time, generation after generation. Ideas have been exchanged, civil rights movements have been conducted, ideologies have been proposed and tested and revised. This is why dictatorships and monarchies have been torn down in favor of democracies, and those democracies are still being revised today. Why you no longer see public beheadings in the streets of London and "witch" burnings in U.S. churchyards.

The bible and it's disturbing contents are quite literally towards the very bottom of that evolutionary totem pole. One honest read will show any thinking person that it is the product of un-evolved minds. Stoning people to death, baby killing, chopping off arms for petty theft, rape of helpless women, slavery, murder of "cursed" sons and daughters, silencing of women's free speech, were all seen as morally sound according to your bible. This is a CLEAR sign that the concepts of right and wrong held by the barbarians who wrote it were highly influenced by their time period and geographic location, no longer suitable for the modern day, and that as societies advance (unobstructed by outdated ideologies), so do our moral perceptions.

That's strange. You consider it okay and the only way we can do it! It is okay for people's morality to be influenced by their own level of empathy and the society and culture they are in, according to you. But you're irked when it is biblical. When morality is influenced by the Bible, you're almost vomiting but you just said it is okay to be influenced. If we are in a biblical society and culture, it is no more okay to you but barbaric and tyrannical. You've got jokes you know? See how unstable your standard is? There is a society and culture that eats strangers, a society and culture that gives out their women as sexual entertainment to visitors, a society and culture that does a lot of what you will consider barbaric to widows, but you consider it OKAY and THE ONLY WAY we can influence or determine morality. Now, if i said Jesus is the ONLY WAY, you would probably have a raised blood pressure, but you think you have a right to tell me the ONLY WAY to morality. i'm not sure if you can see the double standards. i wish you could, but i know unbelievers are content to sit in darkness, but i pray you will see the great Light. You believe morality should keep evolving, in other words morality should keep changing. i'm not arguing the fact that it has been changing, no need to bore me with examples. i'm arguing if it should change. What should make it change. So if in 50years time, it is morally okay for albinos to be killed, so be it, right? Since morality is evolving and influenced by individual empathy and society. If a Society in Asia tends towards communism for instance, it's okay, if they evolve to democracy in 100years, it is okay, in 200years they evolve to monarchy, it is fine and all good. i don't think morality is that fickle and the go the flow kind of thing.
i'm amused at your views about the Bible. Because the millions of readers and followers do not do all the stuff you conjured up there. The sweetest, most forgiving, loving, kind old people, and neighbours and work colleagues i ever met were/are followers and ardent readers of the Bible. They read it every day for many years all through their lives. In fact, they think it a duty, yet i have never seen them malbehaving or misbehaving BECAUSE of the Bible. Don't be delirious, let's talk reality.

Ariani:
God doesn't support the mixture of weeds and crops, he favours division, which was why he created heaven and hell, separated the Israelites from the Egyptians, rather than fusing them into nation, he even had to DIVIDE the red sea to do that, and made Moses rebel against Pharoah, so obviously he uses rebels to create divisions, when he must separate his people from Egyptians.

You know not God.

Who are the weeds and who are the crops? Who made or qualifies them as weed and as crop? In the Bible, where something similar is spoken of, it refers to sinners and children of God, not to different local tribes. And it did not divide them, despite advise to do so.
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The Israelites and the Egyptians had always been separate. they both knew they were of different nationalities. It was common knowledge for centuries, both physically and spiritually. In Nigeria, Igbos are carrying Nigerian passport, spending and earning Nigerian money, occupying Nigerian positions and doing everything that a Nigerian can do. A minute disgruntled set/sect cannot just wake up insurrection against the government like Barabbas the robber in the Bible and expect to go scot free.
Mar 15:7 And there was one named Barabbas, which lay bound with them that had made insurrection with him, who had committed murder in the insurrection.

It was NEVER in the plan to fuse Israel and Egypt into one nation, not God's plan, not Egypt's plan, not Israel's plan. Unlike Nigeria, where the whole world knows we are a nation since 1914 or so. you're caseless and baseless.

Integrityfarms:
Whatever! His like the tse tse fly on the scrotum of PMB

Buhari will use good insecticide then.

bestman09:
Buhari is looking for opportunity to convict KANU by all means. Our God is a faithful God. We shall overcome.

God does not support treasonable felony, hate and division.

nnahernest:
I AM REALLY PROUD AM BENEFITING FROM THIS MAN'S GRACE,AM A SON OF THE PROPHET,APOSTLE JOHNSON SULEIMAN,SO THEREFORE MY PROPHET IS SURE.
IF YOU STILL HAVE DOUBT ON PROPHESY,CAN I CLEARIFY YOU,LETS TALK ON WHATSAPP,07039476669

What's the benefit of this prophecy so called?

diasporaman:
Guy watch your tongue. Don't incure curse upon your life. Am Apostle Johnson Suleman's protege,you there not malign or say nonsense about God's servant.

Is this the way Jesus Christ was busy threatening people up and down?

Oracle16:
I decree, by the power that divided the Red Sea, by the power that brought the Israelites out from Egypt, the wisdom of Nnamdi Kanu's enemies have been converted to foolishness forever. If I be a son of the Almighty Jehovah, I decree that Nnamdi Kanu will be miraculously freed and Biafra will rise never to be stopped forever in the name of Jesus Christ. From now till the next 21days, Biafra anthem and flag will stand before United Nations in the name that is mightier than any other name Jesus Christ. As it is written in Proverbs 23 :18, Nnamdi Kanu's perils will come to an end and his dreams/expectations will not be cut of by no one in Jesus Christ Name. Amen.

God doesn't answer baseless prayers. Nnamdi is a criminal who has committed treason and preached hate and division. Don't get it twisted, God is not mocked.

iamkeyz:
this guy too tough o
defeated DSS four times in court back to back
now he is FLYING THE BIAFRAN COLORS IN A NIGERIAN COURT
salutation things jare, the guy too much

He's digging his grave literally. The other day, he was confused about wearing handcuffs or not.

RealCJ:
Umu Chineke! Whiter than white and Whiter than snow.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Chineke. Anybody can wear white cloth.

Integrityfarms:
Spotless!
Despite the turmoils of the Prison my Director comes out clean and neat. Looking only at the light in the end of the tunnel. He is having the visions of a blissful end when the sun arises from it's horizons.
Nwachineke Onyenso!!!

If he's punished, or made unkempt or forced to put prison clothes, you will complain about human rights, tyranny, etc. Keep deceiving yourselves. In other words, Nnamdi has adapted to fate,life in prison.

Who are the past five winners of this award.i think that will determine relevance and context.

magicalx:
And his saintly ministers are not fit to do all the things you mentioned? You clearly have no point....

Who are his saintly ministers? What stops him from doing all the things i mentioned? You clearly have no excuse. Again, what groundwork do you think should have been done that is yet to be done.

cloudgoddess:
His "deadened conscience" towards things no one needs to feel guilty for in the first place, and only do so due to biblical brainwashing.

His deadened conscience nonetheless.

And yet here I am, reading and writing. Would you look at that.

I ignored "personal" because it was irrelevant, and a clear attempt to make it appear as if the author's idea of morality was arbitrary because he used his logic to arrive at it. The logic of thoughtful people with open minds and a minimum amount of empathy (alone or in groups. again, "personal" is irrelevant - rational minds arrive at similar conclusions) is enough to decide what is moral and what is immoral. With or without religious interference people ALREADY have personal standards on morality that are influenced by their own level of empathy and the society and culture they are in. The bible is full of outdated barbaric nonsense, if that's your alternative then it fails, hard. I would quicker trust a sane individual with carefully thought out ideas of what is just (who is willing to revise said ideas as needed), than the ideas of a person who worships a power-hungry, war-loving, genocide-permitting being, and values the standards of that imaginary being more than they value human life.

Use the quote icon, it makes reading easier instead of copying and bolding. Congratulations on your ability to read and write BTW, you earlier failed to prove it. When you ignore what i say, you would likely ignore anything that does not tickle your fancy, so why waste my time? PERSONAL is very relevant because everybody has his own logic, reason and opinions for doing things. We cannot base standards on personal and fleeting opinions or reasons. We've seen many good reasons and good motives to do something bad, so reasoning/logic is not king. We've also seen. We've also observed that having the best arguments doesn't exactly make one right, though it may help in courts and talkshows.
By the way, who are thoughtful people with open minds and a minimum amount of empathy? How do we find these people? Is there a device or instrument we can use to detect them? Are you one of them, and what makes you one of them? If i gave you a list of 20 thoughtful people with open minds and a minimum amount of empathy, and you gave me your list of 20 thoughtful people with open minds and a minimum amount of empathy, what would make me righter than you? What would make me wronger than you? A poll, a throw of dice, what? You know for instance that some people consider abortion to be moral, while some do not? And they both have their reasons and logics and school of thoughts. And they both have PhDs and professors, so what exactly makes one side right and the other wrong, you tell me? Do you consider it okay for people's morality to be influenced by their own level of empathy and the society and culture they are in?
i believe that you can read that these are all questions, and if we are going to have a profitable and relevant discussion, you will do well to answer them instead of resorting to infantile frustrations and gnashing of teeth about religion and christianity.

Ahh yes, it's so boring when people make sense and you feel threatened by it. Let me guess, "boring regurgitated rehashed atheist talk" is anything an atheist says that exposes the flaws in your dogmatic views and makes you think too hard? You have yet to make a thought-provoking point that isn't drenched in religious bigotry yet you're the one who's bored... interesting.

My thoughts are lazy and regurgitated, and yours are what... unique and well thought out? Why do I feel like this is a textbook case of psychological projection, lol.

You're yet to make much sense so far, i hope you do. i'm not threatened by your opinions. If you feel your posts are a threat, wait until i bring out real threats from the Bible, lol Then you'll start playing victim
"boring regurgitated rehashed atheist talk"(you do have access to a dictionary,right?) are what they are, boring talk that we have heard over and over. Copy and pasted thoughts that atheists make online which we have dealt with already and it has become BORING. It's not thought provoking, it's just like here we go again. Here comes the new recruit sort of.
i don't really need to "think" in the sense, i need more to believe(as a believer). My job is very easy. You who need to think up something new and germane are bringing up lazy and regurgitated copy and paste opinions of a barbaric, mythical, tyrannical, fabricated Yahweh pursuing you. So, think for yourself bro, think, you have a lot of it to do.

magicalx:
You and your paymasters know nothing about governance, you can't give what you don't have and the people your ogas are travelling to see can see their ineptitude and lack of direction!

i'm not a politician, and nobody is paying me to express my views. It is naive and myopic to always assume that anybody not castigating government must be paid. Like AlJazeera aptly captured it, Buhari's travels aim to boost Nigeria's standing abroad, seek support on his crackdown on corruption, to talk on oil(its sale and pricing) and to encourage much needed investment on the country's ailing economy. These are the basics of governance that you have refused to see. Government is not magic, it is practical. Nations don't make agreements and sign bilaterals with ineptitude and lack of direction. Hurling insults and whining unreasonably is not the way forward. You forgot to tell what groundwork you think should have been done that is yet to be done.

When are they going to secure oil pipelines already? Use of sensors, motion detectors, electrocution, security cameras is cheaper than all these monthly repairs and shutdown. What happened to emergency response squads where they swarm an area 5mins after an alarm? Do they have two heads in other countries where these things work?

A very poor, shoddy and unprofessional process by our security agencies. Yes, the job was "accomplished" as the girls were rescued. But it was through torture, coercion and intimidation of family members. Little intelligence was deployed. They could have secretly followed the suspect to their hideout and get the gang that way instead of being lucky.

magicalx:
You zombies never cease to amaze me. So what has his travelling done so far? You have a crisises and the first option Is to travel not dialogue on Solutions and send your ministers out while you do mo're ground work. Let him keep travelling 4 years will soon be over

Calling others rude names does not make you smart, get smart. Travelling is not a FIRST option, it is something that can be done while you dialogue on solutions and other options. What ground work do you think should have been done that is yet to be done, pushing wheelbarrows or climbing electric poles?

cloudgoddess:
You think the author was referring to stealing and raping? Wow.

He was referring to the natural adult human behaviors that the tyrannical Yahwah classifies as sinful despite having little to no harm in regards to actual morality. Like premarital sex between two consenting adults, or working on Saturdays.

No, about a deadened conscience, he was referring to his deadened conscience. i clearly said that.

Logic is a fantastic foundation on which to base morality, actually. I'd argue it's the only effective way. Every lawmaker in every developed, secular country has used logic to create their governing rules. What, you think the U.S. Constitution was based off the bible? Laughable.

The "moral codes" in the bible were clearly written for a stone age, barbaric society with no regard whatsoever for women's rights or even human equality. The bible is FAR from the gold-standard for human morality. It's similar to the flat-earth theory in science - outdated and no longer useful according to what humanity has LOGICALLY concluded to be better over time. And yes, that goes for a society's idea of what is moral.

This is one reason why religion is such a deadweight on humanity. It causes people to trust their money-hungry pastors and self-contradictory "holy" texts written by men with a fraction of the knowledge of a modern-day 4th grader, over careful human reasoning - you know, what has taken us from cave-dwelling wanders to huge societies, cell phones, computers, rocketships and modern medicine. The further back in the past you go, the more barbaric, uncivilized, and relatively immoral society was. That includes the era the bible was written in and the people it was written to control. It was our minds that got us to our present standards, not gods or any supernatural entities and especially not Yahweh - a fabricated mythical figure no more proven than Zeus or Krishna who commanded numerous murders, rapes, and baby-killings.

i stated PERSONAL logic and you quoted it, except you cannot read and write properly. Everybody has their personal opinions which they call logic. That cannot be a standard. Rationalising your personal opinions and frustrations does not make them a standard. Neither does lazy regurgitations of boring rehashed atheist talk add any value to your post.

sugercane:
The Bible says be not drunk with wine; it did not say don't drink wine simple English

Speaking of simple English.
Pro 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

magicalx:
You Aare in a crises and the best thing to do is a world tour?

Sure, the "world tour" is not a sight seeing or shopping spree, is it? If you had a crises, say a fire or a medical emergency, would you sit at home or go out and get help? Nigeria obviously needs help and restoration. You don't get that sitting in Abuja and making calls or 2go chats. Ordinary admission, i'm sure you will go to the school as if you are the one going to type the admission list. Nigeria's needs are greater than academic admission.

TheRealAdonye:
I'm Christian but I believe we could all be a bit more open-minded.
Please share your thoughts on this article:
Just to be clear, this is not about why religion is bad. This is about how my life is better now that I’m not religious anymore. Because my experience of organised religion is based on Christianity, this post is going to be very much Christianity focused. If you’re a Christian, please don’t take it personal.

A few years ago, I realised that I had reached a point where my being a Christian was not really making a difference to my life. I wasn’t praying, I wasn’t going to church, and I hadn’t picked up a Bible in ages. I picked what parts of Christian doctrine to live by, completely ignoring others. I basically wasn’t doing any of the things that Christians would normally qualify as being a good Christian.

So I put my religion up to some serious scrutiny. What was Christianity really doing for me that I couldn’t do for myself? Did it give me inner peace? I could get that with meditation. Purpose in life? Didn’t need Jesus to figure that out. Guidelines on how to live? I could take advice from the Bible without actually being a Christian. Heaven? I figured if I worked hard at being a good person and God still decided I wasn’t good enough for heaven, then I didn’t want to be in that heaven anyway. Push come to shove, I would just hitch a ride to a different heaven. Anyways jokes aside, I put some serious thought into what I really, truly believed – my personal creed, if you will – and found that I didn’t need to be a Christian to believe it and live by it. So I stopped calling myself one.

My life has improved tremendously in many ways since I left the church, but here are the five major ones:

Your experience and reflection is based on christianity according to you, so my views and opinions you asked for will be based on christianity as well.
Now, let's be clear here. You put your life to scrutiny, not your religion and definitely not christianity. Following Jesus, which is what Christianity is, gives you forgiveness of sins. No meditation can do that. Your purpose in life is to please God, according to the Bible. So you need Jesus to help you figure that out, there is no other way. The options for eternity are Heaven or Hell. You don't get to hitch a ride to a different heaven. You determine your choices, but you do not determine the consequences of your choices. That is the way it is for every man. If your life has improved, it is not because you stopped being a christian but because you started doing things with some sense of purpose, scrutiny and evaluation. Nobody stopped a christian from these.

I don’t feel guilty for doing what makes me happy: As a Christian I found that I would repeatedly do things that Christianity frowns upon, feel bad for doing them, and apologize to God, only to go back and do them again. Basically I was a hypocrite, telling God I was sorry for doing things that I knew I would most definitely do again. I realised the reason for this was that I wasn’t really sorry, because I didn’t truly believe what I was doing was wrong. I only felt bad because the church said I should. When I stopped listening to the church, I stopped feeling bad and started feeling free to live my live the way I want.

That is a deadened conscience. It is not a new thing or something to rejoice about. Have you not seen thieves and politicians that do not feel guilty, or rapists and wife beaters without remorse? Are they hypocrites? Do you suppose that Hitler did not live the way he wanted and even think he was doing the world a lot of good?

I don’t feel like I have to make excuses for God when bad things happen: As a Christian I spent a lot of time wondering why the world is so bleeped up and why God ‘lets’ bad things happen. I would make up all kinds of explanations as to why a supposedly benevolent God lets his creation suffer. Things like ‘God works in mysterious ways’ and ‘this world is not our final destination’ are some of those flowery words I would come up with, that sound like so much hogwash to someone who just lost a child in a car accident, or lost a mother to cancer. These days I acknowledge unfortunate events as things that just happen, I grieve and then I do something about them if I can. I don’t spend valuable time asking God why, or searching the Bible for ‘answers’, or trying to explain on his behalf.

A poor knowledge of God and of the Bible is why anyone will make excuses for God or keep wondering why things are so wrong. We know why things are so wrong, and we know what to do. The Bible and christianity doesn't stop anyone from doing something about situations if they can. No Bible character and serious follower will spend VALUABLE TIME asking "God why". And of course, there are some answers in the Bible. Most of the most committed christians i ever met are people who have gone through a lot of mishaps and unpleasant ordeals, so don't make hasty generalisations saying people who go through pain do not regard God or count His Words as hogwash in time of trial.

Sex doesn’t make me squirm: Christianity has a particularly strong disgust for ‘sexual sins’, like pornography, fornication, masturbation, homosexuality, and so on. I’ve never understood the link between marriage and sex, and why I should ‘wait’, or ‘save myself’, so I had sex, a lot. And enjoyed it. I also didn’t see why pornography was such a big deal. So I watched it. But my Christian upbringing also meant that I would sometimes feel dirty afterward. It seemed to me that I was expected to feel dirty and ashamed for enjoying a beautiful, natural act that isn’t shameful at all and doesn’t harm anyone. Sexual freedom is taboo in Christianity, especially for women.
Female virgins are celebrated in the Bible as though the state of one’s hymen is the measure of their worth as a human being. But now that I no longer subscribe to Christianity’s aversion to sexual matters, sex is no longer a furtive, shameful thing to me, and the fact that I’m not a virgin is a non-issue. I’m very comfortable talking about sex, and I don’t get irrationally worked up and feel the need to preach to people who masturbate, have sex with as many people as they like, or enjoy pornography. After all, who has consensual sex ever harmed?

Immorality is immorality. And that you've never understood something doesn't mean it is irrelevant or not true. i'm not omniscient, neither are you. i do not understand many things, like the workings of a space shuttle, or of even the DNA, or of some plants. It doesn't mean they are irrelevant or not true. You don't dismiss stuff simply because you never understood it, that is a most ridiculous excuse. Immorality is a taboo in christianity, whether women or men. Don't twist it and say, especially for women. God will judge every immoral person and considers all immoral persons as sinners whatever gender.

I’m way more open-minded: Seeing as my framework for morality is no longer based on the Bible, there are a lot of things I previously condemned as being wrong (without really understanding why) that I am now more willing to evaluate objectively. For example, as a non-Christian I am now more open to understanding why some people are transvestites, or why some people are sexually attracted to animals, without passing everything through the ‘Bible says it’s wrong’ sieve. I don’t necessarily agree with everything I used to think was wrong as a Christian, but I now find it easier to evaluate things on their own merit, not against the (often arbitrary) Christian standards of right and wrong. My framework for right and wrong is now based on logic and universal principles any rational person can agree with, regardless of religion.

This is the most laughable part of all the post, you cannot base morality on personal logic. Personal logic is as fickle as the word fickle. Anyone that says christian standards are arbitrary only to compare to personal standards is a joker and ignorant fellow.

I don’t have to struggle to stay awake in church: The struggle was too real. Each Sunday morning I would grudgingly drag myself out of bed, scan my closet for something church-safe to wear (I usually settled for the same dress every Sunday, it became like a uniform), get to church and promptly fall asleep in my seat. The over-sabi usher who found joy in waking me up in the most embarrassing way possible was my mortal enemy. But now that I don’t feel an obligation to go to church, my Sunday mornings and afternoons belong to me. I go to church if I feel like it, not because I must. So if I’m tired, I don’t go. If I’m not in the mood to be told things I already know, I don’t go. If I have other things to do (like sleep an extra 5 hours), I don’t go. Which is very often. In a weird way I kind of miss that usher though.

Over to you! Have you also discovered that you don’t need religion? Do share your experience in the comments. If you’re a religious person, let’s hear about the impact of your religion on your life, whether positive or otherwise.


As seen on TheNakedConvos

[size=1pt]Lalasticlala, oam4j[/size]

You don't need christianity because you want to sleep? It is degrading and a waste to even answer this. One has to actually question the age and maturity of the expresser of this thought.

ApexTitan:
There you go again giving excuses for this administration, it either that or you are setting the bar really low for your own reasons - Buhari's so-called cost cutting, as of now, has the appearance of a farce. And this is bad for someone who was touted as a frugal and cost conscious.

I will concede the point about drawing your attention to the reduction of the amount for feeding in the state house but even that is given away again when the total sum for Aso Rock is considered. No unbiased person will offer to present that aspect as an example of cost cutting when that amount is retaken more than a dozen times over in other parts of the same budget for the state house.

The main issue we are all talking about is that it is very possible for any (sincere) leader to make significant savings in how an administration is run. We have seen this in some measure with the Tanzanian president. Buhari hasn't done anything tangible in this regard, lets admit it instead of making excuses for him.

BTW see the proper link for my previous post here http://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/headlines/195903-buhari-to-spend-more-than-jonathan-on-presidential-villa-to-spend-less-on-food.html

There's no excuse, nobody is referring to the budget but you. Everyone agrees that the budget is disappointing including Buhari. i did a thread against it and still stand on my views expressed in the thread. However, someone said over a billion is to be spent on feeding which i called a lie and exaggeration. We're not talking about Tanzania budget but the first three months of governance. And i stand by my point that Buhari's first nine months have also had its fair share of sacking, body language and cost cutting. Focus on these, not on arguing with what we both agree on.

ApexTitan:
The amount earmarked for feeding in Aso Rock this year is about N445.49 million. It is lower than the amount for last year which was N526.17 million.

The overall budget for the state house however is N18.1 billion. That's over N10 billion more than the previous administration budgeted for the same Aso Rock last year. See this link - http://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/headlines/195903-buhari-to-spend-more-than-jonathan-on-presidential-villa-to-spend-less-on-food.html.

At the end of the day what has happened is that they've reduced only a subset but increased the total... any you are happy with it and even trying to justify it? Let's stop making excuses for poor leadership.

Mr, we have still said the same thing, the budget for food was reduced. BTW, your link shows nothing except the homepage of premiumtimes so nothing to see there. i told someone that the money allocated to feeding in Aso Rock is not up a billion, and to quit the lying(exaggeration). Now, you sidestep that after falsely accusing me of not cross checking. i know already and have issues with the budget, i also did a thread on that so it is not news. However, it is no opportunity to lie or exaggerate. Nobody has tried to justify THE BUDGET, it has not even been approved or spent. What i have stated is that Buhari has also done his cutting of costs in the last 9months, cutting costs of frivolous spending is not alien or only seen in Tanzania. Even Buhari agrees that his budget is not okay, and he said he will punish people for it etc, so why will i say the budget is okay. Obviously, even when it is passed, he will likely not allow some of the things in it. But we are talking about so far, the previous months.

OBJ's travels had not paid off then. Paris Club forgave us our debts like 2005 but OBJ was always travelling round and nobody knew what he was up too. Unlike now, we all know what Buhari is up to, and we can see from OBJ's example that travelling round can have some good effects. Moreso, Buhari will not continue travelling round for 4 years, things will settle down. We are currently in a CRISES.

SamiraF:
TY Bello and Kelechi Amadi Obi need their heads examined. What they are doing to this Olajumoke is not in her best interest. No matter how much makeup, how many wigs, or outlandish outfits they wear for this girl they cannot transform her to model material. If they are sensible they will give her money to start her own bakery so she can earn a sustainable living. My two kobo. Enough of this irresponsible hype raising Olajumoke's expectations unrealistically.

But Olajumoke is now more popular and richer than you. What do you mean? She's also in school BTW. Help me name two Nigerian models more popular than her?

Totalman1:
Na youthful exuberance & backlog of religious mentality dey do H.I.M. Ojaja 1... If he knew better, he would not have done that in public as a representative of Olodumare on earth.
Very fake just like d religion he grew up with

What makes your religion real and others fake?

DanjaNinja:
you got me laughing at the bolded. "They are not going there to sight see". Really? Lol. Let us objectively walk through your comment.

They are moving around asking for help,
What help is he seeking? Technical, political or military? Have you forgotten his trip to USA seeking military help? What good did that yield?
Before you ask for help, figure out the solution to your problems, implement those solutions and if all options fail, feel free to ask for help.
In this case, where are the local solutions Buhari and his team has offered?

Thank you for your attempt at objectivity. it is a very rare feature/attempt from anti-Buhari people. He is seeking all kinds of help, economic, political, security, investment, information, repatriation, diplomatic etc. Nigeria was totally on the brinks and virtually a pariah state. he's tried to restore some dignity to us in the committee of nations. Nigeria has gained her respect and relevance back slowly and surely. His trip to the US was not just for military, howerver, if you have been conversant with the news, you would have heard that the US gave us some of their weapons, asides the $5million(or so) they initiallly gave us to combat boko haram. Recently also, they have sent soldiers to help the MNJTF with logistics at the areas where the boko haram is still believed to be in. France and other countries have also helped with money and logistics. they are even training our soldiers to speak French so as to ensure communication with neighbouring soldiers.
The local solutions Buhari and his team gave was to take the military base from Abuja to Bornu state, rally round the neighbouring countries(Chad, Niger, Cameroun and Benin) to restrategise the fight, with Nigeria now LEADING the MNJTF instead of the former methods that obtained, where Nigeria soldiers were running away from boko haram and mercenaries from South Africa were the ones doing their job, then soldiers from Chad and Niger were coming into Nigeria anytime they wanted to help us fight boko haram, while boko were pillaging our barracks and mutiny was growing in the army. Now, Nigeria(NA) is in charge of Nigeria, MNJTF is incharge of border areas and working together with logistics. Chad President is no longer our big brother come to our rescue. Boko haram has been subdued so far and even their resort to suicide bombing insurgency has been very subdued.

meeting over loans
Did you see the 2016 budget? if you can ask for N322,421,971 to link a cable to the drivers’ restroom at the presidential villa, request to spend another N213,873,953 for linking of a cable from Guest House No 9,evidently, then you have no business seeking for loans.

The budget is a huge embarrassment, even to Buhari. i even did a thread criticizing it as far back as January 14, long before the massive media criticisms it received. Even at that, we do need loans, though maybe not as much as we intend to borrow. It's a budget in TRILLIONS, not millions. We need loans so that we can operate with bulk money, and so that we don't have to rely on an unstable oil price and revenue. And he needs to go and ask as many as he can and not just put hopes in one basket. He's asked WorldBank, China, EU etc. These are not things that are effected via twitter or BBM.

foreign investment
getting foreign investment is not rocket science. You want foreign investment? Simple, create clear cut economic policies, tax/financial incentives and a safe environment. Then watch your FDI increase. This is simple economics. However, given the lack of clear cut economic policies that we currently have, dont expect any foreign investment.

Textbook economics are not exactly what will solve our problems. NOI kept giving us textbook figures about FDI, GDP, GUP rubbish that had no significant positive effect on the common man. We don't need wind/chaff foreign investment where foreigners dominate our stock exchange and JP Morgan moves billions out of our country in a day. We need investors who will build businesses, create employment, invest capital in building estates, roads, railways, factories, malls, industries etc. i wonder what you mean by clear cut economic policies. i guess clear cut means devaluing the naira. And as long as we insist on NO DEVALUATION, we will continue to be considered as not having clear cut balderdash. It is very clear we are devaluing the currency, it is very clear the government intends to focus on agriculture and mining to grow the economy and create jobs. It is very clear the government hopes to increase electricity generation in thousands of megawatts, to build roads and massive housing projects. What could be more clear cut? Do you need Buhari's ATM pin or Adeosun's token so that you can clearly see?

security details, oil markets and prices,
Security is a local problem. The earlier we realise nobody will help us fight Boko Haram, the better for us all. Find out the root cause of the problem and implement a solution. Thats all it takes. Realistically, it might not be this simple but generally, those are the requirements.

And oil market/prices? - So you think Buhari has any influence over the price of Brent or Light sweet crude.

He's not going out to get soldiers. We need weapons, we need information that we do not have. Also, terrorism is a global fight/problem. It is not local. We need to rebuild cities, towns and communities. These are things that developed countries and bodies like Bill Gates Foundation, WorldBank etc can help with. Educating the locals, giving them incentives, training our people, project management and achieving results in quality time.
On oil markets, we need people to BUY our crude and not just rely on few customers. The US was our biggest customer but they drastically reduced their patronage. China also has their own customers. So he needs to re-establish agreements with some of these countries. Would be nice to get Japan in our market for instance. On crude price, i thought as you did too that he did not have any influence as Nigeria did not have any much say(at least this time last year). But he's been meeting all these OPEC people recently with Kachukwu, and i think Kachukwu is OPEC president or so, or at least former OPEC President. Meeting Iran, Qatar, Saudi Arabia over oil prices is not a useless thing to do. If things go well, prices may stabilise to around $50 per barrel(so said Kachukwu recently). i don't know how, i'm just telling you some of the things he's doing/trying to do travelling around.

The Hospitals
The reason i brought up the hospitals was because according to the O/P's article, the Tanzanian president - John Magufuli apparently made an impromptu visit to the largest hospital in Tanzania, i watched the video myself. What he saw was an eye opener - Patients on the floor, non functional hospital equipments and the usual dose of African inefficiencies. I say african cos funds were allocated for these services yet non was functional. Now, I agree with you that the job of the president is to create policies and delegate tasks accordingly to the ministers. Nonetheless, occasionally, as the president, you need to step out and actually observe the implementation of your policies. Sitting in Aso Rock or travelling over the world is not acceptable in this situation. You might think this is unnecessary but that visit to the tanzanian hospital led to unprecedented improvements - the head of the hospital was fired, more beds were bought, equipments that were not functional all became operational. You see the difference? In summary, it is not enough to create policies, get your ass up and monitor the implementation of the policies. Doing this sends a very clear message that "inefficiency will not be tolerated".

The conditions of our hospitals are not an eye-opener to us, they are things we know and the President knows. He does not have to go the hospital to know. And his budget is not ready BTW. i believe the tempo of work will greatly increase as soon as the budget is approved by the NASS. Then is where he can inspect or delegate people to inspect and commission etc. i am sure the Buhari government has bought more than 300beds for hospitals and IDPs since inauguration. These are not headline news, Nigeria is not Ekiti state, even though Tanzania is bigger than Nigeria(apologies to my ekiti people). The tanzanian president's visit and sacks is similar to what we initially called Buhari's body language. He's also done his own fair share of sackings and replacements. Customs, FIRS, DSS, EFCC for instance have not remained the same, though we still want more and refined improvement. Let's wait for the NASS to approve, then come back to reassess IMPLEMENTATION and monitoring after 3-4 months.

ApexTitan:
If you had only made the slightest of efforts to cross check what you so vehemently defended.

People like you keep making excuses for poor leadership even when you don't gain anything other than having your ego investments sustained.

For a millisecond, i feared i was wrong after my gragra and boldness(lol), only for you to support my views with picture. Your picture is saying what i said, that costs have been cut compared to previous budgets. There's no billions allocated to feeding. Please be objective, this is very clear to see.

badonkadonk:
Excuse me...

The purported money he didn't spend.. Who spent it? Was it the spirits?

Nna! They brought the budget for his inauguration for him to pen.. And he penned it..

That budget my dear friend ran into millions of naira.. The independence celebrations too ran into millions and he penned that too..

His trips abroad.. The allocation for them was penned by him...

He said he would reduce his aircraft fleet.. Till now he hasn't.

He said he would give graduates that are jobless 5k monthly.... Days ago, it was said that buhari didn't say so..

Let's just call a spade a spade..

Our globetrotter is a hypocrite..

The purported money he didn't spend? Someone mentioned and compared Buhari to Tanzania president cutting costs and showing example. Now, you are shown where Buhari is cutting costs and all you can say is purported? Obviously, your prior bias will keep you from seeing things clearly.
They brought budget for his inauguration for him to pen, are you kidding me? May 29 inauguration was done and organized by the former government. So, even if someone told you that Buhari was the one that planned it or organized it, you should be able to think logically.
The cost of the Independence Day celebrations was cut down compared to previous ones. Same thing goes for his trips abroad. his delegates and spendings are very much prunned down. There is no lavish and prodigal spending as was the norm in the past government whenever the President travelled. That is yet another cutting down of costs.
He said to reduce his aircraft fleet for the Presidency, that has been done. The only reason why we still have the fleet is because of the ongoing plans for a National Carrier. Obviously, it makes no sense to sell them when you would be needing them to start off a National carrier.
He never said he would give graduates that are jobless 5k monthly. i followed Buhari closely during the campaigns last year and watched most of his speeches and intervies both home and abroad. He NEVER once talked about paying graduates 5000 monthly. The only thing close to 5000 was the Vice President saying that they would create social welfare where they will pay MOST VULNERABLE 5000 monthly. The most vulnerable are not jobless graduates. There was never a promise to jobless graduates for a specific 5000naira. People mixed that up often until even APC chieftains started thinking it was said, just like people talk about 1naira to a dollar promise or ending boko haram in 2months and such likes. There was never such specific promises. these were all exaggerations from PDP mischief makers during the campaigns to ridicule the APC. Unfortunately, the APC hardly countered any mud thrown their way, so much that most of it still stick today. So please get your facts right, there was NEVER a promise to pay graduates 5000naira specifically monthly. They said most vulnerable and they even gave conditions which suggest that they were referring to widows, beggars and their likes. They even talked about making sure these vulnerable people send their children for immunisation and to school before they qualify for such monthly payment. Some of the PDP opposition even started complaining that the APC wants to pay/reward almajiris for helping them. It is unfortunate to now talk with doubl mouth and refer to graduates. That is the truth of the matter.
As for me, i find the payment laughable(whether to vulnerable or graduate), pitiable, unserious pipe dream and unsustainable. And i've been saying that even before the elections. It makes little or no sense and a real waste to me, but what do i know. It has already been budgeted for and you will hear them paying it before the end of the year. But it is NOT for graduates but for the most vulnerable citizens, whatever that means. That is the spade mr.

MadCow1:
Bro.. Jumoke is no Naomi Campbell.

Her brand is not in being a professional Model, but her story/background.

There are over 5000 professional Models, their is only one Jumoke type model.

Take away her story and her market appeal vanishes.

She cant ask for more because she does not even have a clue how much her brand is currently worth.


T.Y Bello as a business woman indeed deserves to make money off of her. But if the split is 80/20 in favor of T.Y Bello, its exploitation.

Tuface was a street artist hussling cassette tapes and D.J's to get airplay. Then came Keke and D1 that elevated him and put a whole lot at his feet including a car, accomodation, free professional studio time, shows and all.. But they were still exploiting the kid because he was worth way more than what ever he was getting from them.

Its like the Oil companies and host communities. Oil companies build them schools, give them roads, give them electricity and some of those petty stuff which put together is not even up to 5% of the profit they are making off of the oil they are mining. Should the Oil community be satisfied just for that or ask they get a fair reward.



Jumoke is a brand. Just because she had nothing before and is ignorant of what she is worth and just because she is better off now than where she previously was does not mean she should be exploited.

I am not saying she is being exploited, but the business world is filled with wolves and I hope to God her handlers give her a fair amount of her earnings.

Of course, she is no Naomi Campbell, my exact points. She has no 'talent' or experience in modelling. Yet, she's being made arguably Nigeria's most popular model. She is not the first person to photobomb or videobomb shootings. Bello virtually made her to what she is today, that is a fact. She could have deleted her pics or not go back looking for her frantically. She's helped her with so much in such a little time. Her success as a model so far has not been a result of HER talent or hardwork or dedication or doggedness or even vision or passion. She was the average breadseller trying to make ends meet. She couldn't even afford to be with her family. But today, she's been interviewed bu the CNN, Channelstv, NTA. She's been on ThisDay cover. She's met her state governor. Musicians, senators, white people, pilots and comedians want to meet her and take pictures with her. If that is exploitation or cheating, i'd rather be exploited in that way than sell bread sir.
She's secured StanbicIBTC education trust fund for her two children, she's paid ambassador and face of Stanbic, Payporte and Shirley confectionery. She's modelled for Mania magazine, Layo G, Divine Endowment collection. Sijumoto construction limited has given her an apartment, a luxury apartment fully furnished. Even graduates will dream and testify to have such, i hope you have heard her speak? She's been enrolled for an English Proficiency Course and Total personality development course at Poise Nigeria. She's not had to pay 10naira and yoi talk about being cheated? She's being tutored and mentored by Few Models management school, and is appearing at Presidential cocktail Fashion show, Polo club and other similar runways. She's lodging at a Royal suite at Transcorp Hilton Abuja for what talent or for doing what? Sir, reason well please Only an ingrate will think otherwise.

MadCow1:
So are you saying she should be grateful for whatever she gets and allow herself be ripped off or what?

I know she isnt a professional model, but her case isnt one for professionalism. What sells her is her story and nothing else. Becoming a professional is a whole nother matter entirely.

All I am saying is that her handlers should atleast ensure that she is getting a very fair portion of whatever monies that are coming her way.

I remember how my agent fhucked me over on my first job all because I was naive.

If she is GRATEFUL, she will know that she is not been ripped off. It is largely contextual and a thing of reflection and contentment. Humans often fail in this regard from Eve thinking God is exploiting them till date. She's had more than she ever dreamed. My only worries is that she should not be sexualized, she doesn't deserve that nonsense.

DanjaNinja:
This is where you compleletely get it wrong. No matter how complex a nation is, as a leader, when you set the example, all others will follow. Besides, Tanzania is multi ethnic and complex society. Do u think corrupt political cabals are non existent in Tanzania?

Now tell me, what would happen if :
1. Buhari cancels all presidential foreign trips for 6months pending the improvement of the economy?

2. What would happen if Buhari visits the major hospitals in Naija just for a routine check?
(He has visited over 29 countries but not one single hospital).

3. What would happen if Buhari single handedly refuses to accept the silly billions allocated for food @ Aso Rock?

You see my point? Nobody can stop him from doing these things. But he doesn't do any of them.

What you don't understand is that as a leader, its not your words that matter, but your actions and from my humble observation, Buhari has done nothing to assure Nigerians that change is here.

Another wasted four years.

Buhari halved his salary for instance, who followed?
There is absolutely no sense in cancelling all presidential foreign trips for 6months, they are not going there to play or sight see. They are moving around asking for help, meeting over loans, foreign investment, security details, oil markets and prices, recovering Nigeria's wealth etc. These are all necessary visits that are yielding and will still yield good fruits in time to come. It is foundational work, or you think sending emails and chatting on whatsapp is what will do the work?
Buhari does not need to visit hospitals, though i remember him at one during a boko haram attack sometimes last year. He is not a doctor, and he is paying ministers and other government workers to do that. His work is mainly administrative and his budget is yet to be approved, which ties his hands to an extent. What exactly is happening in hospitals that you think he needs to start visiting, is he a miracle man or what?
The money allocated to feeding in Aso Rock is not up a billion, quit the lying(exaggeration).
It is too early to conclude the outcome of the first four years of the current government.