₦airaland Forum

rozzay: . Yes. Urs.

You got the point, i hope.

rozzay: 11-mosquitoes nd rats
12-heat
13-sex
14-demonic attack

Are these anybody's habits?

TheBigUrban2: If a pastor advices a member who has AIDS or Diabetes to stop medication in favour of faith healing, such a pastor will go to jail in the UK

Advice you say? Well, that's bad advice coming from a pastor. Faith does not exclude medication. It is a personal decision. The Word doesn't teach it. Why are the atheists around here trying so hard to redefine faith?

texanomaly: He's actually right about the US. Most people think the law requires that all children attending public school must have had all recommended vaccines before entering school and must provide documentation to prove it. This is not true. There is no federal law mandating vaccine exemptions. They are left up to individual states. Every state has at least one kind of law governing it. Some have two or even three. All 50 states have a medical exemption. All states except Mississippi and West Virginia have religious exemptions. And 18 have philosophical exemptions.

This is a site that advocates for children’s rights to receive medical care. They are especially opposed to religious exemption from child health and safety laws. You might find it enlightening. It highlights religious Exemptions from preventive and diagnostic measures, Exemptions from providing MEDICAL care for sick children.

http://childrenshealthcare.org/?page_id=24

Thanks for the link. Yesterday 10pm, alexeo quoted mazaje who was saying that James 5 is nonsensical and cannot be practiced by Alex.

James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Alexeo went a notch higher to state that there are many people who don't even do hospitals. That is very true, not every sickness gets to the hospital, it's still the prerogative and will of the sick person to decide whether they go to hospital or not. One can have issues and pray and it's solved. i put it that it's common knowledge that many members of Apostolic Faith church don't rely on medicine. BTW, any believer anywhere can be sick and pray, you don't go to prison for that. AGAIN, i have not said, neither has the bible said you can't/shouldn't go to hospital. However, praying for healing is notonly done in Nigeria, they do it also in the US and U.K.

TheBigUrban2: lol...that is the point.....the report should get an investigation and then some arrests

Now that expression "for your mind" is appropriate.

Ubenedictus: all you need to do is add vs 30 it.

"and those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified".

That my dear is predestination unto glory, he foreknew and predestined some to be conformed to the image of his son, vs 30 goes futher and tells us that those who he predestined he called, he then justified and glorified. That is predestination unto glory.

vs 30 disagrees with you! Those he predestined he called, those he called he justified and those he justified he glorified. For those presdestination to glory, clearly leads to glory.

While heaven may be ultimate glory, it is not necessarily the only location for glory. i posted 11:3 instead as it showed clearer what i'm saying. Remember, it is whom He FOREKNEW that He did predestine. Israel was foreknown but didn't all end up in glory, whatever that is. They fell through unbelief and only left a residue/remnant.
Like explained earlier, predestination is basically a plan/will. God's plan or will. It's like addressing a letter or package. That the package is predestined doesn't guarantee that it gets to planned destination. God has definite and specific purpose, plan and destinations for us.

TheBigUrban2: lol.........you think? Please send me the address of your church. I want to make an anonymous report on them.

You forgot the prison part?

Ubenedictus: i think the bible hints to complete predestination to glory. Rm 8:29 et seq paints the picture.

Take a look.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Brother, like stated earlier, being predestined don't guarantee destination. God foreknew Israel but they all didn't attain or get there.

TheBigUrban2: lol......only in Nigeria. In the UK or USA, if your church is caught doing this.....some church leaders would find themselves in prison

duh, Apostolic Faith is in UK and USA, that's what their members do largely. JW don't collect blood or something, they don't go to prison for it. Stop deceiving yourself alone.

Weah96: Explain. What are you talking about?

Ask anyone around you to explain following the train of thought.

Kay17: BUT the action to take is not the Christian's choice (as you have said God commands the action) yet the Faith is. Obeying divine commands is the evidence for Faith.

Can you be more specific, please.

Kay17: I know what I asked. Apparently from what you have said, God makes the decision of what action is to be made not us mortals. Incidentally we merely extend and further our faith by obeying God. At the end of the day, "faith without works" makes no sense.

You're stating the obvious, take a pat on that back of yours. The Word of God is all about telling us all what to do. We then obey in faith. Faith without works is worse than senseless, the Bible says it's dead.

Weah96: Well, we have managed to establish a direct line of communication with the creator. Before the CIA swoop in and whisk you away for some thorough interrogation, is it possible to authenticate the message? Just to make sure that you're not lying about having a chat with him and all. Ask him to provide the last 4 digits of my social security number followed by the street number of the address that I am located as I type this.

duh, can you afford to stop thinking in 1-D?

mazaje: Why can't god personally tell him to repent if he wants him to repent?. . .

His Word does that, remember?

DrummaBoy: I understand you well enough. I should ask if YOU understand what you quoted above.

As for moving on... I won't give you that pleasure. I hope you remember you met me on this thread?

Jesus is Lord, you do have comprehension issues. Okay, have the last word.

Weah96: Has God, by any chance, ever asked you to do something before?

Yes. He's even asking you to repent oh.

Kay17: Only when God asks of you to do work, right?

Yes. i doubt you know what you ask though.

DrummaBoy: Two things can be gleaned from the Matthew 13 scripture

1. God's servants were able to distinguish between wheat and tares and the Master acknowledged this.

2. The Master insisted that the tares are not rooted out, stating that this was the exclusive preserve of God.

The aim of this thread is still in keeping with the spirit of 1 above, and that is being able to distinguish false from true. The Master did not stop them from doing this. Indeed every scripture that warns on falsehood does this. Now, if in the bid not to name names, the servants chooses to call tares wheat, shall we not say such a servant is doing the vineyard disservice? Paul commanded Timothy after warning of false doctrines in church: "If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shall be a good minister of Jesus... These things command and teach" 1 Timothy 4:6,11. We are still withing syllabus here.

However number 2 is the exclusive preserve of God, its beyond the syllabus of this thread. To root out will be to deprive of life; it would mean bringing judgement; it would mean death and total annihilation. It is easy for one to think that because there is falsehood somewhere then a swift end should come to that place; the minister should fall down and die; God cannot use even such falsehood for good; etc. Those are the thinking of finite minds and Christ is saying that God is able to bring good out of evil but as for judgement of falsehood at the end, only God can do so. None of us can and it is not the aim of this thread to do so. You may peruse the OP for the purposes stated there.

As to the messenger and his message, the two cannot be divorced from each other. Whatever befalls one, befalls the other. Nonetheless, the thread seeks to peruse the message and the mention of various messengers simply cannot be avoided. It is my humble counsel however that we all seek to be followers of Jesus who alone is infallible because when we follow men and have made tin gods out of them, that is when we become offended when names of our favorite ministers are mentioned in connection with false doctrine.

just move on. It's almost impossible for you to understand what I've said.

Goshen360: Image123, I have given you those verse and repeatedly told you to go study the key words in those verses but you keep turning hardened heart and keep repeating same questions.

As for Adeboye being older. I respect that and respect him as though I would my father but truth is not respect of a person. We don't use traditions of men ( e.g Yoruba traditions) to handle the word of God. Because Adeboye is older doesn't mean he cannot be talked against. We've not insulted him here but only pointed out his error to his followers.

What are the key words, i have begged you to tell. Simply say where the Bible says a christian cannot be cursed.
As per Adeboye being older, you said i was old in the word not to know. So, using the same criteria for Adeboye, you do not agree? Is Adeboye not old in the word not to know? It's not about respect or age, simply tell me and us all where the Bible says a christian cannot be cursed, or are we to simply take it because Goshen endorses it? Your providing those scriptures will help, thanks.

PastorAIO: In other words the real advantage of being Just lies beyond anything evidential. You cannot really look at someone's present condition in this world and claim that it is due to their being just or justified.

Now this belief is common amongst christians that there is some kind of reward for believing that they will receive in this world. This is what makes a great deal of them to backslide when they eventually take a clear eyed look at the evidence.

No,i don't mean to say that the advantage of being just is beyond ANYTHING evidential.
1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Emphasis on the word "only". If in this life ONLY. So, there is actually hope in THIS LIFE. It pays to be just or good. To be just or good though is a world of definition and explaining on its own. In this world/life, anyone who lives in just principles is likely to enjoy the fruits. RIGHTEOUSNESS exalts a nation.
Pro 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.

While the main aim and chief drive of righteousness is to please God, be His child, get to be with God in eternity etc, righteousness is multifaceted than that. For instance, HOSPITALITY is righteousness i.e under righteousness. Being hospitable doesn't mean you are a christian, but a christian should be hospitable, because that is righteousness, and a christian should be righteous. But we have muslins, atheists, hindus etc that are hospitable. Being POLITE or COURTEOUS is righteousness. GIVING is righteousness, HONESTY, INTEGRITY, DILIGENCE, HARDWORK are all characteristics of righteousness or being just. When an individual, or community, or nation operates by these, they reap the fruits of righteousness. Righteousness or being just is not just about praying or going to church. Praying, going to church, believing God, Bible reading are also righteous things, have their benefits too, and will aid one way or the other in getting ready for ETERNITY.
So, one's condition can be affected by righteousness or righteous works, both now and in eternity. The main drive you should remember.

MrAnony1: My brother, let us not judge them by how they may have responded in the past. Let us judge this thread based on its merits. I really would appreciate this thread more if it was not one-sided but if the opposition refuse to show up, I don't see why I should bother. What matters to me is that the truth is being proclaimed.

I don't have as much time as I used to have (and I am not as addicted to Nairaland as I used to be) but so far I have been reading this thread and enjoying it.

If anyone has a case to make for the Word of Faith movement, please I am interested in hearing it and would love to engage with it and happily examine it through scripture.

P/s: I hope you are not suggesting by the verse you cited that we should allow our brethren to be deceived until the day of rapture

My brother, i know them by their fruits as it were. i'm not judging them, it's something that can be demonstrated. Maybe you did not see the other thread that birthed this one, they can testify. The opposing views refused to show up because these fellows were more interested in cliques and friction, and those guys were not 'edified'.
Good for you that you're enjoying the thread, sorry i didn't bother. i can't because i'll have to reply, and that would definitely 'derail' their thread, trust me. Even when i tried reading when i was bored, i was put off by the first post i read which was on page 4 or so. i've being skimming mainly since.
i'm not for or against the Word of Faith movement, whatever it is. It seems people don't even know what it is as there are different and ridiculous views. Even those that have being called NL WoF were so named by our fellas here before they knew it. i am for the Truth.

Here's the verse i cited. i was hoping everyone could draw their conclusions, presenting it as an option not previously looked at.

Matthew 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Those are the words of Jesus about JUDGEMENT/CONDEMNING. It's about God's kingdom(which the church is a part of) and the enemy sowing tares in God's kingdom. The answer is clear from the Lord. "Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest:" i'm not sure we are wiser than Him. There is a way correction is done and warning carried out. Drumb gave a link earlier that says pretty much what this thread is perhaps hoping to say.(THIS ). Methinks that's a christian way to correct and warn, instead of the propensity of attacking the messenger instead of the message.

trustman: “Contend earnestly for the faith” – Jude 3

"11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

13 But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible," - Ephesians 5: 11&13

"Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." - Revelation 2:6

What am i expected to do with these?

Olusanya333: brother d Truth is bitter. I hardly read where peter write books for pple to read. Tapes nd cds lacks conviction annointin. See Chrinstainity is dieing nd dis is a way to bring it up.Let dem stop saying RCCG,DLBC,MFM crusade. Let dem go out as commanded not sit in offices

Brother, everybody cannot live the exact same way. There is nothing wrong with writing books, many people are blessed by them. The whole Bible was written for people to read. Tapes and CDs have brought salvation, revival, healing etc for countless people. People are going out to preach the gospel, do your best and let others do their best. You are not omniscient and are rather being unfair to state that others are sitting in the office. You don't know how others run their lives. That you've not met them in your street don't mean that they don't preach in other streets. Preaching the gospel can take different forms and methods, and all must be on deck to reach the lost.

nora544: Who was it that speaks about this Adeboye I know it is hard to believe that Adeboye is not this so called great man of God because what he taught is not in the bible.

Why I should put Adeboye put out of this when he preach this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, i'm not here to discuss Adeboye, whether for or against. i;m not interested at all. My interest is in the assertion that "a christian cannot be cursed"
We can actually discuss that, can we? Where does the Bible say that a christian cannot be cursed, i'm willing to learn. From what i know, i'll quote two passages.

Galat 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
This verse seems to suggest that anyone can be cursed, whether any man or even an angel from heaven.

Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

This verse also seems to teach that in the new heaven and earth which are yet to come, there will be no more curse. It is parallel with 21v4 which also states things that will be no more; no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither any more pain. These are all things that everyone on earth are still exposed to, whether you are in Christ or not. In this earth, there can be curse, pain, death, sorrow etc. Jesus died to take away your sins so that you won't have to die for your sins. Yeah, He is able to deliver and does deliver from all these negatives, but i don't find a Bible verse that says christians are immune to these. If you have, please produce and lets examine and prove it, thanks.

Kay17: Equally, a woman with ectopic pregnancy can do "work" by merely stepping into a church OR buying a bible OR by praying without going to the hospital to seek for expert medical advice, right? These are not purposeless questions rather they are directed to clarify your true position on the use of miracles by Christians.

if God asked her to do that. He asked Peter to step out, remember?

TheBigUrban2: Thanks for the insult


#we know how people behave rudely when they have been thoroughly corrected and have nothing to comeback with

#address the message not the messenger

lol, you're Mr rude don't you think? You got banned yet again? gotta be like your tenth nl handle or something, nawa oh.

BTW, drumb, trustman and co, when are you going to contend and withstand to the face these your friends that are preaching prosperity gospel? Goshen, Nora and Gnoni are preaching that once someone give his life to Christ, he's blessed or something like that abi no bi prosperity gospel be that?

https://www.nairaland.com/1799518/rccg-july-holy-ghost-service/1#24484671

DrummaBoy: I stumbled on this thread opened February 2013 and titled FELLOW CHRISTIANS WHAT IS HAPPENING TO US? The OP raised some salient points on the thread. Most of them we have discussed on this thread and some yet to be discussed.

I share this thread here to lend further credence to what we are doing and perhaps to clear the doubts of some who think the thread is a pursuit on personal vendetta.

This post does not mention WOF but its easy to see that WOF is at the root of the OP dilemma:



www.nairaland.com/1188495/fellow-christians-what-happening-us

wordthots is my very good friend, hohohoho. There's a world of difference between that thread and this. Something like that thread is what Ihedinobi has being pushing for, how you can't see that is, well it's you.

InesQor: Guys no vex, please take this funky pettifoggery off my thread abeg.

lol, sorry.

Olusanya333: let dem go to Villages nd nt city.

Are the people in the village more valid or more important? Are you the one that sends them or God?
BTW, they do go to different places from the little i know. They go on crusades, revival, and other such programmes in both urban and rural communities. Apart from that, their influence, tapes, cds, books get everywhere. They have churches and missionaries expanding the message. They're not omnipresent, remember? The church is a team or body, not a one man show. Do your part and let them do theirs.

Goshen360: Study to show yourself approved unto God, one who is skilled in the word, rightly dividing the word. That verse teaches exactly opposite to what those who promote generational curses for Christian teach. Again, do yourself a favour, look up key words in those verse and stop assume I'm drawing logical conclusions. You're too old in the word not to know these little things.

Adeboye is older than me oh, so let's not use my 'oldness' as a base. Those verses don't teach about curses. Kindly show please.

nora544: because a christian cannot be cursed.

that comes only from Adeboye to put fear on his followers, that is all what he want, and he is good in this.

I could remember one year he told all his followers they should pray because something very bad will come to nigeria when they will not pray and fast, but he never told later what it would be, that is what I hate.

He want that his followers live always in fear and that is not christian. That has nothing to do with the bible!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A christian cannot be cursed simply because you say so? keep Adeboye out of this, can you?