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Christianity Etc › Re: Prophet T.b Joshua Versus Matthew 6v1,2? Really? by Image123(op): 5:32pm On Apr 07, 2013

knightride: @ OP. Please have you ever seen TBJ giving out things and being shown on NTA, AIT, CHANNELS and any other media you can think of? I'm sure your answer is NO!
So, what about the pastors that do their giving and invite the press so as to be seen on public media?
Moreover, giving on Emmanuel TV is not a function of TBJ alone, but also of Emmanuel TV partners all over the world, and I think that is just one way of being accountable and getting others motivated towards giving. There are many missionaries that do the same all over the world, yet you don't see anything wrong with them. But you are quick to judge TBJ.
I also want you to know that there are rules guiding charity works. and I'm afraid charity today may not be as secretive as you think, as authorities would like to know the giver of items like food (in case of mishaps like food poisoning).
Anyway, Emmanuel TV is optional. You may decide to delete it from your decoder if you think his acts are "unscriptural". Thank you.

Its not about his TV station. i don't watch his TV station. I've seen him on TV doing this before, that was before the government stopped the different churches from airing most of their programmes. The point is not about the station he shows it i never mentioned any station, i mentioned the words of Jesus Christ. Is the front of synagogue or wherever he gives out his gifts not in front of men? Is emmanuelTV not men? He should take to simple and clear correction except of course Jesus is not his Lord.

Christianity Etc › Re: Even Water Proves That Atheism Is False. by Image123(m): 11:55pm On Apr 06, 2013

onyfrank: Acts 14vs17. 'nevetheless He did not leave Himself a witness, in that He did good, gave us RAIN from heaven and fruitful seasons . . .'

Jere 5vs 24. 'they do not say in their heart, 'lets us now fear the Lord our God, who gives rain, both the former and the latter, in its season. . . .'
Jere 3vs3. 'therefore the showers have been withheld, and there has been no latter rain. . . .'

isaiah 55vs10. 'for as rain comes down and the snow from heaven, AND DO NOT RETURN THERE, BUT water the earth and makes it bring . . .'

eccl 1vs7 'all the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full, . . .'

1samuel 12vs16-17. 'now therefore stand and see this great thing which the Lord wil do before your eyes;
is today not the wheat harvest? I will call to the Lord, and He will send thunder and Rain, . . .'

exodus 9vs33. 'so moses went out of the city from pharaoh and spread out his hand to the Lord, then the thunder and the hail ceased, and the rain was not poured on the earth.

So u can go on and read.
Zech 10vs1; 14vs17.
Jere 14vs22.
2chronicle 7vs13; 6vs26-27.
Amos 4vs7.

this man, you no dey do well at all oh. Hope no one shares this your style with you sha.
BTW, all the verses you've quoted simply show us that God is sovereign. Nothing escapes Him. He is in charge of all things. But don't be confused as to think that we and other bodies do not have our designed roles to play. God rules in the affairs of men, puts one up and sets one down, gives us our daily bread etc but we need to go out and work, school, learn etc. The verses simply show that in God we have our being.
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
We should never forget God or act/live independent of God.
Jam 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, Today or tomorrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
Jam 4:14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
Jam 4:15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
That's why we usually thank God. He's the one that provides for us and protects us ultimately. It's the same thing with the elements, the weather, the sun, the rain, the planets etc. God has already designed how they should function, but we should not forget that they are under God's control. The waves, the sun, the rain, the animals etc are under God's control. Man is also under God's control.
Psa 24:1 The earth is the LORD's, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

One or two verses that may require an extra,

Isa 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Perhaps the CEV might help improve the comprehension, see below
Isa 55:10 "Rain and snow fall from the sky. But they don't return without watering the earth that produces seeds to plant and grain to eat.
Isa 55:11 That's how it is with my words. They don't return to me without doing everything I send them to do."

Notice that Verse 10 and Verse 11 are compared to one another. God says His word will not return to Him void, not that His word will not return to Him. That is, His Word will not return to Him until it has fulfilled its purpose. t's the same way the rain does not return to the heaven without fulfilling its purpose of watering the earth.
Also consider,
Psa 135:7 He causeth the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries.
This is indicative of evaporation. Its what happens when water boils, when water disappears from your food in the pot and cooks it. Some of the vapour can cool and turn from gaseous state(vapour) to liquid again and you can see it on the ceiling just above the pot. Its what happens to the wet cloth/shoe that you dry. The vapours ascend. See the previous verse,
Psa 135:6 Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.
There is the conjuction verse again. It is the Lord that did it, though He has already ordained and set the principles and 'laws' in place.

Christianity Etc › Re: On Demonic Afflictions by Image123(m): 11:24pm On Apr 06, 2013

Luk 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
Luk 7:32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

musKeeto: As you are usually not up for any reasonable discussions (due to deep ignorance or inability to reason beyond 2 feet of a Bible), I'd share this story with you just in case you are not aware. It's the dangers of believing and being scared of shit that can neither be determined nor have any logical explanations..

History - recorded for our learning..
Compare with our current Nigerian situation and tell yourself the truth. No matter our religious/non religious beliefs, we can't keep blaming government. Unlike China and some other countries, our access to internet is not restricted. When answers are provided for scary phenomena, we should not just cast them away because they do not fit into our 'spiritual' knowledge...

Anyways, how we go do? This world is not your own abi?

Make una come save me from this muskee oh. Your question was

Do you belive any form of neurological disease can be caused by demons/evil spirits?
Is there any way to tell if a stroke for example is caused by a demonic attack or fatigue?

My answer was Yes to both questions in the op and that's all.
What do you want me to do for you again my son? Now, you are sharing stories. Let me share one with you too. Do read/re-read it.

And he said, A certain man had two sons:
And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.
And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and entreated him.
And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Religion is a very general phenomenon as compared to christianity. Do not mistake the two. CO is not CO₂

Christianity Etc › Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Image123(m): 11:07pm On Apr 06, 2013

debosky: It isn't peripheral at all, if not we could easily get into misinterpretation of scripture. Jesus was referring to complete adherence with the law, not tithing alone which is why he mentioned the other aspects of the law

i maintain that who is He addressing or what type of tithe is peripheral. If Jesus is addressing any man, all men should take note. There is so much 'çutting corners' ongoing in religion today in the name of Jesus was talking to this, Paul was writing to that, the book was address to those. The scripture still remains
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
And whatsoever things were written aforetime. Let God be true and every man a liar. Such subtle cutting methods were not employed in the Bible.
1Co 9:10a Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written:
The verse in question in this last passage is even from the newly dreaded law of Moses, not to mention the words of Jesus whose word will never pass away.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Just the next chapter after Matthew 23.
And there is nothing wrong with complete adherence with the law if that's even possible. We are 'supposed' to have the mind of Christ, who never condemned the law. The only wrong thing is IF we take obedience to the law as a means to justification or salvation.

Jesus endorsed Levitical tithing as instructed by Moses. He didn't 'speak against' it because he didn't 'speak against' the law, but came to fulfill it.

What is this Levitical tithing you're on about? Can you show us this coined phrase from the Bible sef? Jesus endorsed tithing, simple. There is no such demarcation or understanding(as presented by you, gari and co) in the Bible.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Also, Jesus didn't come to pay/give your tithes. Jesus fulfilling the law doesn't mean that we stop exercising faith, mercy, judgement or tithes.

I agree in principle. As for the last line, if it is not to show the detail, we know where the detail lies - in Leviticus, and that does not include tithing of monetary income, except as a replacement for agricultural produce for easy transportation.

Which one is agreement "in principle" again, all this law court practices sha. 'Detail' in my post refers to EXTENT or magnitude. i.e The mention of mint and anise is to show the EXTENT/MAGNITUDE to which they gave tithe, its not an hint that those were the only things they gave tithe of.
As to where details lie, the details of tithes lie in scriptures. One scripture is not to be held to ransom or isolation. Scriptures interpret and complement one another. Holding one sided views and demarcations is what muslins and atheists do to satisfy themselves that scripture is untrue or contradicts. All the verses on tithes are the FULL revelation on tithes, not just one or two verses that suit our perceptions and websites/blogs.

If you want to tithe to the 'higher priesthood', tithe as Abram did/was recorded. A tithe of the spoils of war, not of his monthly salary. Besides, the church is comprised of individuals, therefore every individual is entitled to receive tithes no? I await my tithes from you brother.

Oh, so Abraham's tithe is voluntary according to you, but mine must be Abraham style? Do you read yourself?
The tithe(whatever currency) is to God, or as to God, through His temple the church. Not everybody holds the same function in the body. This is rudimentary bible class.

I disagree - some tithers call it a 'principle' comparable to praying. If you compare it to praying, aren't you making it a 'big issue'?

It depends on the context to which they compared it to praying. Jesus compared humans to lilies, context is important.

This I agree with - however, even if a 'minor' issue is being distorted, I consider it necessary to point out the distortion. Being minor is not enough of a reason to let distortions go unchallenged.

good.

That is unreasonable. Mercy and Faith are principles - tithe is a practice. Therefore, the former cannot be 'gone' because the law is 'gone'.

hahaha, who is deceiving who?

Again, answer the point I raised - Jesus did not teach his disciples to tithe. If he did, kindly point it out.

Jesus NEVER taught His disciples NOT to tithe, If he did, kindly point it out. i already pointed out Matthew 23.
Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Even if you challenge that, honourably point out your own as i requested, thanks.

Comparing tithing and tax shows the deep flaws in your thinking. Taxes are mandatory, not by choice and enforced. This is completely at odds with what we are taught about God loving those who give without compulsion. You are compelled to pay taxes but should not be compelled to tithe - it should be a personal choice

Again, you have decided to alter my comparison out of context. Tithing is as common sense as tax, if not more common sense. Real and responsible people are not continually cajoled, enticed, and pampered to do them.

When they say A is as --- as B, it doesn't mean that they are exactly the same thing. It is the --- quality in A and B that is been highlighted. You used to be better at grammar than this.

There is no joke on me, (if I meet your definition of antitither that is ) - if you want to achieve 100% compliance with the law, then you must comply with the entire Levitical law. That is the point I was making. Thank goodness this isn't a requirement for me as a Christian. If you want to achieve 100% compliance with the law,including not wearing clothes with two different fabrics, good luck.

WE DO NOT DO ANY OF THIS TO BE JUSTIFIED. If you can understand that, there will be nothing left for me to say on this.

That is the practice that Jesus endorsed. Since you want to base tithing on this passage, we have to comply with what is written no?

Where is it written. Anyway, i've already talked on this earlier in this same post.

The tithing Jesus endorsed was Levitical tithing, which is defined ONLY as agricultural produce.

The tithes the levites received was not only agricultural produce but MAINLY agricultural produce. We've talked on this before,
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
And there is no where it is stated in scriptures that Jesus endorsed one kind of tithing and didn't endorse one kind.

In Leviticus 27:30

Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
ensure you are a Jew - not metaphorical or Spiritual like some like to paint it, but a biological descendant of Jacob/Israel

Hmmm, may it be well. You are saying that the verse in RED is stating the words in GREEN above?

Tithes of what? Lev 27:30: "'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.

That is what belongs to God.

Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
is not the same as And ONLY all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Lev 27:30-33

No where in the Bible is it stated that that passage is the only and final, the first and the last on tithes. The passage is simply reminding/telling us that tithes belong to God, not just to men(our brethren the Levites) as some of them may have been tempted to think. This reminder enhances the solemnity and seriousness they were to engage. They were not expected to treat it with levity.

It is not simply a tenth - the tithes that the Pharisees carried out that Jesus endorsed are strictly defined in Leviticus. No amount of twisting and turning that can get away from this. The practice of the Pharisees was based on Leviticus.

Tithe is simply/basically a tenth. The two words are used interchangeably because they basically mean the same thing.

But there was - Leviticus 27:30-32 30‘Thus all the tithe of the land, of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S; it is holy to the LORD.31‘If, therefore, a man wishes to redeem part of his tithe, he shall add to it one-fifth of it.32‘For every tenth part of herd or flock, whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the LORD.

The tithe of - that's the key, specificity of the tithe is clearly stated by Moses.

And the tithe OF any other thing given to the minister belongs to who?

By giving as inspired by the Lord, as each decides in his own heart, not out of compulsion. 2 Cor 9:7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

You may not have read
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
Remember that as God hath is proportional and has been discussed before.

Some things in common yes - there is no requirement to have all things in common.

Indeed, you and your folks have been requiring that we give as is seen in the Acts to Revelations part of the Bible.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Don't lemme start on the rest of the passages, it could be pretty embarrassing.

Individuals are free to do so if they choose, but there is no requirement to. We give as inspired by God and lay them at the leaders' feet for distribution or to meet identified needs.

No receipts from churches, but we do contribute and support missionaries elsewhere.

As stated above - from the giving of members, of varying percentages as decided by the individuals.

i also do this, i'm with you

A form of support, but not the principle of support. As for the 'word jangle' and 'semantics' ask your friends like Bidam and Joe Agbaje. They are the ones that call tithing a 'spiritual principle'.

i said a form of support. What is a spiritual principle?

Christianity Etc › Re: MODESTY - Marks Of A True Christian by Image123(m): 9:46pm On Apr 06, 2013

Candour: @Image123

I'm not really a fan of STRONG's.you and i have had discussions in time past:go through them again,i never reference STRONG.Not because i hate it or believe it's unhelpful but any good bible translation will not take away from the universal truth of the bible if only we stop cherry picking verses.

I like the idea of the simplicity of the early Christians.they didn't need all the fanciful equipments,speech or extravagant attitude we display today in the name of worshiping God.They worshiped him in spirit and in truth.we need to go back to the cradle if we want to have the profound effect they did.

I believe you were only trying to poke fun @ me.For you to know i'm not pissed,i'll laugh @ it

Also i'm not a partisan person at least not on this forum.I only found brethren with whom i share plenty similar ideas about the bible and have even had to disagree with on some issues.

I always say we can disagree without being disagreeable.I'm sure if Christ or Paul were here,they would advice the same.

oya contribute to the topic

Already did the bolded oh, though it was taken in the wrong light for its purpose. frosb was even quick(as is his custom) to make accusations. Apologies to those irritated. If you want 'preaching', well let me say one line.
Philippians 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
Moderation should not be mistaken for austerity, there is a thin line.

Christianity Etc › Re: My Brother Goshen, Please Explain Your Stand On Fornication Here by Image123(m): 9:32pm On Apr 06, 2013

Joh 2:1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
Joh 2:2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
Joh 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
Joh 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
Joh 2:5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
Joh 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
Joh 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
Joh 2:8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
Joh 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew wink

the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
Joh 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
Joh 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Christianity Etc › Re: On Demonic Afflictions by Image123(m): 7:23pm On Apr 06, 2013

NaijaTalkTown: Send me your pic let me go to Ijebu and come back. You will know!

Christianity Etc › Re: MODESTY - Marks Of A True Christian by Image123(m): 5:40pm On Apr 04, 2013

I need STRONGS please, let's put that word in its context.

Christianity Etc › Re: Lazarus Muoka Accused Of Hypnotism And Deception by Image123(m): 5:34pm On Apr 04, 2013

I am the founder of the apron!
I lost everything, Now I am begging!
I am lively.

salute
BTW, chosen don twenty?

Christianity Etc › Re: Is April Fool Not A Sin? by Image123(m): 5:22pm On Apr 04, 2013

ojjp: I knw it's a wrong thin 2 do dat is y i dnt do it, but i was surprised 2 hear frm a pastor dat he did it 2 a fellow pastor.

ojjp: I knw it's a wrong thin 2 do dat is y i dnt do it, but i was surprised 2 hear frm a pastor dat he did it 2 a fellow pastor.

Christianity Etc › Re: On Demonic Afflictions by Image123(m): 5:19pm On Apr 04, 2013

Yes to both questions in the op and that's all.

Christianity Etc › Re: My Brother Goshen, Please Explain Your Stand On Fornication Here by Image123(m): 4:55pm On Apr 04, 2013

This section of the forum is becoming quite dangerous for the average true christian, very poisonous.
Acts 26:24 Ecclesiastics 7:16 James 3:1

Politics › Re: Lagos, Ogun, Ondo To Experience Power-Cut For 72hrs by Image123(m): 4:14pm On Apr 04, 2013

This is one promise that is sure to be fulfilled in my country. No light since yesterday already here.

Christianity Etc › Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Image123(m): 6:13pm On Apr 03, 2013

For the records and for the help of new and honest folks,

debosky: I haven't had time to go through the thread in detail since where I last dropped off, but I will comment on the 'Jesus endorsed tithes' issue.

The straight, simple and embarrassing issue is that Jesus endorsed tithes. That's the basic claim. the stress about who is He addressing or what type of tithe is peripheral and pulled out of empty space as it were. So, YES, Jesus endorsed tithes. He never spoke against it or saw how dangerous it is, or commissioned his disciples to fight against thisevil doctrine from the pit of hell and whatever other adjective antitithers deem fit.

Jesus was talking to Pharisees regarding the law of Moses, or if you prefer, law-based tithing - that is the context under which tithing of Dill and Cumin could occur. I ask those who use it as 'evidence' of endorsement - do you tithe dill and cumin/agricultural produce? Do you tithe to the Levitical Priesthood in Jerusalem?

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Most Bible students know that Jesus was not giving a lecture on the types of tithe here but was among other things denouncing the HYPOCRISY of the scribes in obeying the peripheral of the law(tithe) to the detail while ignoring the core of the law. The mention of mint and anise is to show the detail to which they gave tithe, its not an hint that those were the only things they gave tithe of. It's like saying that they dotted every 'i' and crossed every 't' on tithes while they ignored the main thing in the law. If my income today was in dill and cummin, i'd tithe in dill and cummin. Not everyone in the OT tithed dill and cummin. Why should i tithe to the Levi preisthood when there is an higher priesthood of the Order of Melchisedek. The issue is that the tithe(whatever currency) is to God, or as to God, through His temple the church.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

As for Mercy and Faith, thank Jesus that we do not rely solely on Matt 23:23 for evidence! Jesus taught extensively about these subjects elsewhere, so it is not in doubt that Christians should also display Mercy and Faith.

Simply because Mercy, faith and Judgement are chief issues, big deals to talk about. Its antitithers that i find that make a big issue of tithes. To them, it is a calling, a ministry, a matter of salvation and of one's eternal destiny. they are trying to save us all the time. they are the ones that find it necessary to open a thread on tithes on a weekly or monthly basis. i've listened to adeboye, akanni, kumuyi, oyedepo severally, even oyakhilome. They hardly talk about tithes, and none of these lovely men speak against it. i don't remember the last time i talked about tithes to anyone outside this forum. It's not a big deal, there are weightier matters to discuss, preach about and engage in. The OT rarely spoke about tithes especially when you consider the volume. Moses had nothing to say about tithes until few verses at the end of Leviticus. It was like common sense. Like nobody harps about having your bath, looking the road carefully before you cross, or washing your clothes. Mercy and Faith are the core of the law, and if the law is truly gone, its reason that the core be gone too.

I also give thanks that Jesus taught extensively about giving - it speaks volumes that nowhere else did Jesus mention tithes, not to talk of teaching it to his apostles.

Tithing is a type of giving, you GIVE tithes.
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Tithing is as common sense as tax, if not more common sense. Real and responsible people are not continually cajoled, enticed, and pampered to do them.

The context of not leaving some undone goes right to the heart of what the law requires - 100% compliance. If you miss out an element, you have failed. That was the emphasis of Jesus' comment - you cannot selectively choose what aspects you comply with.

The 'joke' is on the antitither. It is antitithers that want to hypocritically keep faith and mercy and drop tithes. That is not 100%. The tither wants to tithe, have mercy, faith, judgement etc. We want to honour our father and mother, we want to love God and our neighbour. This is all the law. WE DO NOT DO ANY OF THIS TO BE JUSTIFIED.

Finally, if you want to hold on to the idea that Jesus 'endorsed' tithes, it is only logical to tithe in the 'endorsed' fashion:

Who gave you this endorsed fashion?

- ensure it is agricultural produce (e.g. Dill and Cumin)

Says who? There is no part of the Bible that specifically states that tithe MUST be agricultural produce. We see scriptures where tithes were given of other things and accepted.

- ensure you are a Jew - not metaphorical or Spiritual like some like to paint it, but a biological descendant of Jacob/Israel

And where is this requirement stated in the Bible? Are you adding to God's Word?

- ensure you give your tithe to the Levitical Priesthood serving in the temple

Not compulsory. Tithes belong to God.
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

- ensure you comply with the regulations for tithing spelled out in Leviticus

What regulations are those?

What you CANNOT do is redefine tithe to mean something completely different from what Jesus talked about and then say Jesus 'endorsed' tithes.

Jesus never defined tithes. Tithes is simply a tenth, and that's common knowledge. you don't need to use a concordance or study greek or Hebrew to figure that out. It is matter of factly stated in Genesis. There is no window dressing. It just simply stated that Abraham gave it and also that Jacob wanted to. When Moses wrote these parts, there was no demarcation of definitions. Everyone knew what he meant. It's phds and different versions that is disturbing many people today.

Finally, as for the matter of 'support of ministers' - I thank Jesus that ministers were supported in the early church as recorded in the NT, without anyone teaching tithing.

How were they supported? Is that the way you have been supporting your church ministers or is just mouth? Do you have all things in common in your church? Are you people selling all your property and laying them at anyone's feet? Are you people receiving from churches around you and in other states? Again, how exactly were they supported?

Paul's reference was very clear - what he endorsed is getting support from the ministry NOT tithes. It is very clear from Corinthians:

In the same way, the Lord ordered that those who preach the Good News should be supported by those who benefit from it.

The principle is supporting ministers and nothing more.

Is tithe not a form of support? What's with this word jangle and semantics?

Christianity Etc › Re: My Brother Goshen, Please Explain Your Stand On Fornication Here by Image123(m): 1:18pm On Apr 03, 2013

okeyxyz: Yes!! 100-percent christian

i think that's sad. Thanks for the information though. please no one needs to bother replying this post.

Christianity Etc › Re: My Brother Goshen, Please Explain Your Stand On Fornication Here by Image123(m): 1:13pm On Apr 03, 2013

Goshen360: Why do you open your mouth to talk when you don't have any meaningful thing to say? I have told you to stop this your troll around me please. Also, why do you always say I'm puffed up with knowledge if I know what I know & I have to explain it? Is there a restriction for you not to know also? Learn to keep shut if you have nothing to contribute, okay.

oga Gosh, that's my contribution oh. It's an advice not a command. May it be well.

Christianity Etc › Re: My Brother Goshen, Please Explain Your Stand On Fornication Here by Image123(m): 12:42am On Apr 03, 2013

okeyxyz: Bros.., I honestly don't know any way in which it is illicit, which is why I ask you what laws are cheated by two free adults having sex.

You call it ignorance, then you should provide the knowledge that demonstrates what laws have been cheated\broken when an adult has sex without marriage. In fact, it is to the glory of god that a person can have sex without feeling guilty. We have been set free to embrace(love) our own natures instead of feeling guilty for things that are perfectly natural, that we are entitled to, and that we need to function perfectly.

What?? are you a christian by religion? a straight yes or no will not hurt.

Christianity Etc › Re: My Brother Goshen, Please Explain Your Stand On Fornication Here by Image123(m): 12:15am On Apr 03, 2013

gosh, beware of puffed up knowledge. This is the letter in zoom mode BTW.

Christianity Etc › Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Image123(m): 11:38pm On Apr 02, 2013

frosbel: @Goshen360

Please don't take this the wrong way

hahahahaha, gosh you don turn chairman oh

Christianity Etc › Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Image123(m): 11:19pm On Apr 02, 2013

garyarnold: My expertise is tithing and giving, and I will limit my comments accordingly.

hahahahahaha, wetin we no go hear for nl?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Ugly Truth About Jesus!!! by Image123(m): 11:03pm On Apr 02, 2013

bolaino: lol, my good man, you would make a very good freethinker, and I've set it as one of my goals to convert u to freethinking, na me and you for nairaland, u musto turn to freethinker, I'm going to answer all your questions, and I won't leave anyone unanswered,

i am waiting for these answers too, thatZ all

Christianity Etc › Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Image123(m): 10:48pm On Apr 02, 2013

Alwaystrue: Was it not you that said on a thread that two unmarried adults who consent to a sexual act can go ahead and sleep together as it is not fornication? To Goshen, that is not a sexual sin nor a 'sin such as these?'
You left that and jumped to bestiality.
Speechless.

what? na wa oh. Gosh, take it easy oh please.

Christianity Etc › Re: 'Christians', Abraham Is Not Your Father! by Image123(m): 9:44pm On Apr 02, 2013

Alwaystrue: @Image123,
Your explanations were straight to the point. Jesus gave help and grace hence when we believe in Him, we have the veil of the written code taken away so much that we can see the truth of the law of the Lord and act out the good works through the help of God. That now becomes the law of liberty as we have all help available through the Holy Spirit to do great works for the Lord.
That is why the bible says, if we sin willfully:

Hebrews 10:25-29
25 And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.
26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies.
28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.

May we utilise the grace of God to constantly be guided by the spirit in all truth. Amen

yippee! i passed, thanks be to God. lol.
Just kidding, don't mind me. Amen to the prayer

Christianity Etc › Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Image123(m): 3:03pm On Apr 02, 2013

christemmbassey: stop jumping arround according to Alwaystrue, Peter said some of Paul's writings were "HARD TO UNDERSTAND" 2Peter3:16. TITHE WAS ABOLISHED BY THE DEATH OF JESUS, so dont blame my ordination blame Jesus its not my fault. Remain bless

you suffer greatly from a cherry picking disorder, may Jesus heal you.

Education › Re: Experience by Image123(m): 2:49pm On Apr 02, 2013

when LECTURERS are sent to check incoming pupils load on a Sunday, you should know that they'll vent their frustration on you and anyone else except the oga that sent them. Learn your lessons for future purpose. Don't be forgetful and always carry your id card, you're still in Nigeria, land of possibilities.

Christianity Etc › Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Image123(m): 2:24pm On Apr 02, 2013

christemmbassey: you are reading Paul tro the carnal eyes of the translators, most of which not men of the spirit, but had, DDD AND PHD in Greek and Hebrews and got contract to do their best with their heads. Even Peter could not undastand s6e of Paul's writings. "as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, THEY THAT UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, as they do also the other scriptures unto their own destruction", 2peter3:16. (kjv)

This is a new low. Peter never said that he could not understand some of Paul's writings. Well its christembassey i'm not surprised. Those that endorsed and ordained you should be blamed instead.

Christianity Etc › Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Image123(m): 12:05pm On Apr 02, 2013

Alwaystrue: Apologies Image123, I am just reading your response now. I am sorry about that but contribute if you have anything to contribute as it's a sensitive topic.

I've already contributed ma'am. This people are dull of hearing and i can't be seen re-answering their recycled questions from thread to thread every month. If you noticed, two antitithers have expressed that they think you are me. They think i'm the only one that can answer them effectively or something.

Christianity Etc › Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Image123(m): 10:51am On Apr 02, 2013

some folks don't understand Paul, some folks don't understand Paul. Paul na your daddy? abi na your personal properti? Clear that dirty looking log of wood in your eye first.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Ugly Truth About Jesus!!! by Image123(m): 10:45am On Apr 02, 2013

bolaino: the catholic church still has a strong influence on the world whether u chose to believe it or not, but that's not the issue at stake here, the calender could be changed in the future, I'm not the one to decide what calender the world should be using, and hope u know that in some eastern countries they use the lunar calenders,

in others words, you now see how some historian in Rome may not know about Jesus, thank God. Go and read more since you can't pray, then you'll know more than all these spurious articles and websites you've been feeding on.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Ugly Truth About Jesus!!! by Image123(m): 10:37am On Apr 02, 2013

oh boy see wahala o. What if you're wrong too? Why would a person start critically thinking what if the fake doctors and fake currency notes are the real when he's been exposed to and using the real for years and to good effect?

Christianity Etc › Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Image123(m): 10:30am On Apr 02, 2013

the heart of the matter is a matter of the heart. Indeed, well said ma'am.

Christianity Etc › Re: 'Christians', Abraham Is Not Your Father! by Image123(m): 2:16am On Apr 02, 2013

Alwaystrue: @Image123,
I have been wanting to undertand your views on the law and the prophets which many struggle to understand.
Remember when Jesus said to His disciples, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, his disciples did not understand as they saw that literarily instead of the spirit behind the word of Jesus. Indeed the letter killeth.

From your discussion above, could you expantiate further on this seeing that the law is holy and is not sin.

If you read the continuation of Goshen scripture post above, this is exactly what Christ meant when He said the Spirit giveth life:

II Corinthians 3:14-18
14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ.
15 Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.
16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image.

Personally I think this explains a lot of why the children of Israel could not obey the law as they followed the letter, instead of the intent and spirit behind why God instituted the law. What is your take?

Well, this is like a/the toughest question or something, i hope i'm not going to write a thesis. The phrase 'the law and the prophets' refer basically to the old testament Bible or what some call the Jewish scripture. That is Genesis to Malachi.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Act 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

It is sometimes referred to simply as the law i.e the whole OT can be called 'the law'e.g
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods
where Jesus is actually referring to Psalm 82v6 as law. Or it could be further subdivided in different forms and systems. In subdivisions, 'the law' broadly refers to the first five books of the Bible, or the books of Moses. Or we may cut it further specifically to just 'Moses' or 'the law of Moses'. In this cut, Genesis is informally cut and referred to as before the law.
Galat 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Also, John talks of the law coming with Moses which implies that there is some law that starts around Exodus chapter something. Not to get bugged with all these, we need to understand that God's Word itself is law. So even before the law, there was the law. BTW, from Adam, God never wanted man to live under the law but under life. But we remember Adam chose the law, knowing good and evil, and since then, we've been on that. Now the purpose of the law whether of Moses or whoever, is to show us what we refuse to know. And that is that we are guilty. Adam never thought he was guilty and neither do his children.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Imagine, learning one lesson for about 3000years, and some are still yet to learn it! God bombards us as it were, with sundry laws, and even raises it higher in the new testament Bible. If anyone thinks the OT Bible laws are hard, he perhaps has not truly read the new testament. The laws of the NT are impossible as it were. That's what Jesus often tried to convince His audience. Some came and said "I've done these and done that", He in His superior knowledge simply added one that He knew was impossible for the fellow. There was always some one thing thou lackest. That's the law for you, it can't save. All our efforts and righteousness is just rubbish at best before God. Keeping the law cannot justify anybody because nobody can keep it. You can only try and almost is not good enough before God. But thank God for Jesus.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

It is Jesus that brought hope and grace. Grace is basically divine help. If there is nothing to help with, God would not send divine help(grace). Grace came through Jesus, and it is that grace that now enables us to be righteous and saved before God and able to obey God.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

NOTE the difference please. In the past, people tried to do good works to receive God's approval. They tried to obey God's law to be justified. But it is impossible. Grace has come that helps us to be justified by faith without really doing anything. After this justification, we obey God. Our works are not so as to be justified.(Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. ) Now before i go on to 'the letter' explanation, it is needful to state the attitude and disposition of Bible characters to the law, especially to Moses.
Mar 7:10 For Moses said, Honor thy father and thy mother; and, whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
Mar 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Jesus Christ never had a negative word for the law(whatever name one calls it now, Moses, book of Moses, law of Moses etc). Instead He used it to establish truth. Abraham is also seen as endorsing it,
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
Here it is referred to as the Scriptures.

Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Joh 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
This question posed by Jesus above is still mind boggling to me, because we have folks on nl that do not regard or believe Moses' writings, how can they really believe Jesus. It's like the passage John wrote about loving God and loving humans whom you see.

Act 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
Now, the way folks talk about Paul, one can easily assume that he puked anytime he heard the word 'Moses' or 'law'. But here we see him saying nothing different from Moses.
Act 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Paul quoted [size=14pt]COPIOUSLY[/size] from Moses and the old testament generally to add more weight to his message, folks here think its vogue to disregard and trample on the law. Let me re-quote Paul's praise of the law as alwaystrue already did.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Here is Paul the apostle eulogizing what we largely know as the OT scriptures. Space will fail me to let the law speak for itself. Let's go to another NT character,

Jam 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jam 2:8 If ye fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
Jam 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Here is James, and consider putting one's self in Bible times/shoes. James is one of the first new testament books to be written if not the first. The christians(jew and gentile) were students of the Word of God. Most of them didn't even have the NT Bible like we do today. They all took the OT as the Scriptures, royal and perfect. They were not involved in trying to show how useless Moses is, or how the OT Bible does not apply again.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

(BBE) Everyone who is a sinner goes against the law, for sin is going against the law.

John the beloved thought sin is the transgression of the law. He did not think he was writing anything strange to the law. Like i explained it is the same thing, even higher. The new covenant introduces grace, and what grace does is to help us from being primary school failures to becoming university undergraduates. It helps us to be justified, a feat we could never achieve on our own. And then helps us to obey God.
1Jo 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

So the law is holy and is not sin. Moses is not sin, sin is the transgression of the law, abi na the transgressio n of Moses.
Neh 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.
Now, it has been stated that the purpose of the law(old or new) is to make every one guilty, to kill you as it were. The letter kills. Every scripture should be God-breathed or like some folks say, made rhema. It is the Spirit that gives life. Like i once used an analogy, i'll repeat it. There used to be a popular law in lagos state for people on motor cycles to use helmets. The spirit of this law is to have an understanding of the essence of the law and to abide by it whether you are been monitored or fined or not. The letter of this law would be to put on helmets close to the police/ enforcement agent checkpoint. There are some that wear head gear and hang the crash helmet on the head-gear. they have kept the letter of the law and nobody will stop them or fine them. Many helmets are not the size of the passenger, but the passenger just put it for one reason or the other. That's like the letter. Similarly, when we obey the Word of God, just y the letter, it hurts us more. It gives us mere head knowledge and no life. The highest one can attain with the letter of the law is insight and good theology through meditation. But there is another realm, it's the spirit-life realm of REVELATION. One can know the letter of scriptures(OT and NT) on healing and be dying in cheap pain. But revelation from just a verse that might not even directly speak of the "By His stripes" format, that's Spirit. the spirit gives life. It's long already, lemme round off. Consider som of these scriptures/words of Jesus for instance. the letter would literally kill somebody.
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Luk 14:12 Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbors; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompense be made thee.

Luk 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Luk 9:48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

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