₦airaland Forum

we don't need irrelevant understanding to obey simple instructions. A true Christian owes all his labor to God, infact, all his life. Without God , he can do or acheive nothing.

talk is cheap, infact it has reduced in price.
Any beneficiaries in the house, or at least someone who knows a beneficiary? Any completed infrastructure with picture?

semantics. The preacher needs to pray, hear from God and give more relevant and serious messages.

Tanx sis for the link. I guess one might never know what the real deal is. I sometimes wonder that if GOD truly speaks to people as some claim he does to them, he surely would have revealed an answer to this riddle for it is one to me. I think it is an important aspect in the bible and 2000 years after the death of Christ non still has an infallible answer. These are my tots and are not intended to smear anyone.

Also, I watched a documentary on pbs america called from Jesus to Christ and it talked on the authorship of matthew and how it was written for a Jewish community, the time it was written , how references were drawn from mark, how it might not be an eye witness account. It got me thinking DAT maybe just maybe the author of Matthew misquoted Jesus. As we all know a 3rd party account can never be the same as an eye witness account. I am open to all suggestions.

Nothing wrong with the Transfiguration.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you [size=13pt]the power and coming of our Lord[/size] Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For [size=13pt]he received[/size] from God the Father [size=13pt]honor and glory[/size], when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
Luk 9:32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, [size=13pt]they saw his glory[/size], and the two men that stood with him.

Remember the clause given, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see
The 'éisegesis' in that quote(JeSoul's) around the conclusion skips/erases this clause.

To add to the beauty that has already being stated, contrary to many's belief, holiness may actually make success harder for you. Whatever parameters, you may define success by, you are at WAR from the moment you become holy or choose to be holy. The devil is at WAR with holiness and anyone that wants/has it. Things are not exactly easy at war.
Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
The devil is the prince of the power of the air, and there are principalities and powers, spiritual wickedness in high places to overcome. Indeed,
Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
In this life, the christian(holy one) is a stranger. The holiness God gives you is your id card, as it were. Without holiness, NO MAN shall see God. Holiness is your id, your proof of citizenship. And like your id card doesn't guarantee you money, or a job, or admission, even so your holiness. You need to work, pray etc, even more to succeed. You don't need to be holy to succeed in what you do. Of course, when you introduce God, you need holiness. When you desire the extra, the above natural, then you need to show your id so they'll know who's talking/asking. But you can carry first in class without holiness, you can win at the olympics, become rich, etc without holiness. What you need is a combination of many things like diligence and hardwork.
Gala 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

So when we are talking about holiness, we are talking about priorities. It's not a panacea for all your problems and sorrows. Holiness is priority, it is first. Seek ye first His righteousness. Get an id card before registering for the course, exam, applying for the job etc. Holiness is your identification. When you show it to the devil, he will run. But if you refuse to show it, he'll pretend as if he does not know. he will lie, he may molest and oppress and detain and derail and discourage. But you show him your holiness id, and resist him. He is choiceless, they don't tell him what to do two times.
So, you can succeed(whatever you define success as), but you need many other factors like discipline, hardwork, deligence etc.

Philippians 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
Jesus Christ aptly describes the road of life as narrow, i may add that it is very narrow. How easy it is to fail than to pass, how easy it is for weeds to grow on our land than good fruits/crops, how easy it is for love to turn to lust. In the same level, it is easy for modesty to become immodest and for moderation to be made immoderate. Modesty is hinged on self control they say, but self control/modesty can an habit or a tradition, and tradition can become a religion. Beware of the thin line, and let your paths be straight, lest you fall.
Heb 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

debosky: concluding part of my rebuttal to Image's post:



Am I saying so? Let's hear what scripture is saying:

Leviticus 27:34 These are the commands the Lord gave Moses at Mount Sinai for the Israelites

So yes, the Israelites - those to whom those instructions were given - were biological descendants of Jacob.

But you initially said that verse 30 was saying that i must ensure that i'm a Jew and you pulled out something about biology from the air. Now, you've shifted your goal post (even changed the very match).
You make the same lame mistake that you made in Matthew 23v23 about who is been addressed. ALL Scripture is for us, ALL. You are of little faith until you believe that. And you need to pray God to increase your faith perhaps. Then someone else will come and say Acts is written to Theophilus, and Paul is talking to Galatians, or Peter is addressing strangers in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. Or Jesus is talking to the Laodiceans. ALL SCRIPTURE is for us. NEWSFLASH, The second great commandment is Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. This command is ONLY found in Leviticus. If for selfish interests, to win your point, you throw away the whole of Leviticus as instructions given to biological descendants of Jacob, implying and inferring that its non-applicable to you and me. My question is, is a gentile supposed to love his neighbour as himself, AND WHEN DOES THIS APPLY if it does?

Are you attempting to add to the Word of God? If not, please show specifically where the other non agricultural tithes were given. As I said earlier, no inferences - direct examples.

Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Read the verse, read the chapter, read a commentary, use concordance. If after you have done these and you can't see, please tell me. i will spoon-feed you. AGAIN, Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
is not the same as And ONLY all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.

That passage was reminding the Israelites - those commanded to tithe as in Leviticus - of what they were supposed to continue doing. We cannot simply pick a word and define it as we please from scripture - this is what you are attempting - especially when God clearly defined what he referred to as belonging to Him, namely all the tithe of the land.

On what is this your assumption premised? The passage is the FIRST place where giving of tithe is written after Jacob. What is this reminding all about? If you say i am attempting, i think you have ALREADY attempted. Practice what you preach(Matthew 7v1-5).

In terms of dictionary definition, yes. But God has specified a tithe - not just 'tithe' in its general sense. This tithe - a tithe of everything from the land - is clearly defined in the bible and CANNOT be converted into a tenth of whatever you choose to make it.

No where in the Bible is it stated that that passage is the only and final, the first and the last on tithes. Why can you not see this so plain fact.

It belongs to the giver if it does not meet the definition of a tithe - of everything from the land - that belongs to, and is Holy to the Lord.

What/where is your backing for this idea? The 'definition' of tithes is basically a tenth, and since you can't process that, it is a cumulative of the meaning and practice of tithe in ALL scripture. Leviticus is not more special than the other scriptures that talk about(describe) tithe.

I have no issues with giving in proportion to what you have - as you've said, we've discussed this before.

And tithe qualifies in this category of giving IN PROPORTION TO WHAT YOU HAVE, which you claim to have no issues with.

Yes we have - and giving in that manner does not mean, as you disingenuously imply, exact replication of what was done in Acts. It simply means following the simple instruction in 2 Cor 9:7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Give as you decide to give - nothing more is required. If you decide to sell your house, no issues. If you decide to share everything with everyone, that's your prerogative. If you decide not to either of the above, no issues either.

i put you on the standard that you set for tithers and you failed. You demand an exact replication from us, don't you? It must be spoils, it must be to Jerusalem, it must be agric, it must be this and that. Your laws sef pass the ones wey them they talk for different church pulpits.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Ask your friends Bidam and Joe Agbaje who have defined tithing as a spiritual principle.

debosky: The principle is supporting ministers and nothing more.

Image123: Is tithe not a form of support?

debosky: A form of support, but not the principle of support.

Image123: i said a form of support. What is a spiritual principle?

debosky: Ask your friends Bidam and Joe Agbaje who have defined tithing as a spiritual principle.


You were the one harping on the word 'principle', not my friends Bidam and Jo.

debosky: How can it be peripheral? If the type of tithe has now gone away with the Levitical priesthood, then the endorsement bears no relevance to whatever is being practiced today.

It can be peripheral because if Jesus is addressing any man, all men should take note. His words apply to everyone in any given situation. If you are an hypocrite, or i am an hypocrite, or Peter becomes an hypocrite, it is still woe from Jesus. Same thing when He says "ye ought to do". Its not segmented to just pharisees and the beginning of the chapter plainly includes DISCIPLES among those been addressed. its unfortunate many are acting like they are wiser than the Spirit of God that authored the passage. You are the one claiming it to be a segmented type of tithe. There is no where in scripture that claims so.

I cannot now insist I need to carry out physical circumcision simply because 'the scripture remains', neither can I insist on carrying my tithe to Jerusalem because 'the scripture remains'. No one has done away with scripture here.

You don't need to make such insistence when scriptures PLAINLY teach passages like below.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Scriptures balance and complement one another. There is a BIG difference between the Spirit of God's adding to His Word, and individuals like you and me adding to God's Word or removing from it by logic and emotion.

Who said the word has passed away? The fact is that Jesus endorsed Levitical tithing by Pharisees to the Leivitical Priesthood - how is a recognition of that fact equivalent to scripture passing away?

i thank God, Jesus NEVER said
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay Levitical tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: Levitical tithe ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
You are the one(s) saying that. Hear what Jesus simply said.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Hear in from Luke also,
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Jesus didn't give any high sounding talk on levitical tithing to levitical priesthoods. It was all so simple and basic, tithe was and is a tenth. The teaching of the Bible was that tithe belonged to God. People who gave it gave it as unto God. Just like they offered other gifts and offerings like the sin offering, meat offering, trespass offering and co. When some people didn't bring their tithes, God declared that He was robbed. Why? Because it belongs to Him. All these small talk about Levi is irrelevant in God's scheme.

There's nothing wrong with it I agree - however, if you are not tithing according to the Law's requirements, how can you claim to be even adhering to the law?

i don't think i'm making such baseless claims.

Ok so English is now your problem? Go and read Leviticus 27:30 - for your sake I will call it tithing as described in Leviticus instead. Deal? Jesus did not endorse 'tithing' simple - he endorsed tithing of dill and cumin. Tithing of dill and cumin is according to the instructions in Leviticus. Simple.

Again, here is the verse.
Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
The word 'ONLY' is not found in the verse. You are the ones trying to limit/cage the verse. The proper understanding of any Bible teaching or doctrine should be cumulative. By cumulative, i mean all that the Bible has to say on such subject, doctrine or teaching should be considered. That is how one may avoid cherry picking. Picking one verse and building skyscrappers on it is faulty. Read all the BIBLE verses on tithe at least, seeing the common man's dictionary's relevance is lost on you folks. Read on Abraham and his perspective, on Jacob, read Malachi, Luke and Hebrews and any/every other passage. Then understand and define tithes there, not just one verse bias.

You CANNOT exercise tithes as defined under the law, except to the Levitical Priesthood. If you are 'exercising' tithes, in a way not in conformance with the law, then it is not tithing as far as the law is concerned.

Do you exercise mercy, faith or judgement of any form? If yes, stop coercing and haling people from exercising their tithing rights in the form they do.

It refers to extent of agricultural produce, in that spices are the smallest agricultural produce that you could have. If it is not a hint of the other items being tithed, we go to the source scripture for tithing under the law, which is Leviticus 27:30 - and that EXPLICITLY tells you it is agricultural produce.

REMINDER,
Galat 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Leviticus 27:30 (agricultural produce)tithing complements dill and cumin (agricultural produce) tithing in Matthew.

The Bible does not start or end on that verse, THANK GOD.
2Ch 31:5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
You are crying more than the bereaved here. They God that i give tithes to has accepted it and forever receives it. Thank God He is not man, we for no dey accepted in the beloved.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

I see no contradiction - I only see an attempt by you to expand a FIXED definition beyond what it has been restricted to. I did not make the restriction, God did so in Leviticus 27:30.

Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
Who fixed this verse except you? By your sentence, it even means verse 32 that talks of animals is left out. If you see no contradiction, why do you complain when people tithe after the principle of their father Abraham(without the law)? Where did i expand it to? Did i take my own words or the Bible's. Is it no more true that in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established? It is biblical to take more bible witnesses(passages) to establish what we define and teach. This FIXING is of a 'match-fixing' order, it is unscriptural.

Of course - it must be voluntary.

You are laughing? Is it voluntary when you force someone to practice it? Are you not like the preachers that you folks are fighting tooth and nail in your imaginations?

Where was tithe defined as is to God or 'as is to God', and what is that tithe defined as?

Luk 21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
Things offered in the temple belong to God, though the temple ministers would be the primary users by divine proxy.

Woe to the Pharisees and scribes no be so? Or are disciples now scribes and Pharisees? You are clutching at straws here.

Jesus NEVER taught His disciples NOT to tithe, If he did, kindly point it out. Even if you challenge that, honourably point out your own as i requested, thanks.

Absolute rubbish - I have precisely captured your meaning - once you are mandated to do it as tax is, it is no longer voluntary.

i think you introduced things. i talked about common sense, you're bringing up a mandate.

Hehehehe - don't play with words brother. A is as B means they share fundamental qualities/similarities. The only similarity shared between tithes (to Israel) and taxes is their mandatory nature. As you've often said, tithes BELONG to God, i.e. it is not a choice.

Son 4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.
Do hair and goats share fundamental similarities? Why do you try as much as possible to misunderstand my words? Is the verse above playing with words? Consider this phrase by the same writer "love is strong as death"
Again, Tithing is as common sense as tax, if not more common sense. Real and responsible people are not continually cajoled, enticed, and pampered to do them.

You do it because it is mandatory no?

i've said it before. i do not think anything(or lets safely say many things) is mandatory in the the new testament. Not prayer, not fasting, not fellowshipping, not Bible reading, not tithe/giving. We are now adults as it were.

What else did Levites receive? Spell it out - I will not accept inference here.

What should i spell oh, is it your name? i thought you were turning into some self styled authority on Leviticus? Like i said, i've talked on this before.
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Anybody that studies that verse and that chapter would(supposed to) observe that one could redeem his tithe and instead give non-agricultural substance as tithe. The condition in the verse is to add thereto the fifth part.

Jesus endorsed EXPLICITLY the tithe of dill and cumin - agricultural produce - as mandated in Leviticus 27:30. That is the ONLY form of tithing Jesus is recorded as endorsing.

Oh, it was so explicit He forgot to mention that He was ONLY referring to the segmented and discriminated Leviticus 27:30 isolated pattern of tithe. If it was so dangerous and unacceptable to offer any form of tithe different from the anti-tither's definition, don't you think Jesus should have warned it? This 'GREAT' ministry that people are so eager to take up on the internet, the ministry and apostleship of antitithing, don't you think at least one of the Bible writers should have told us about it?

what is success?

wonderful commentaries, thanks all.

see talent oh.

debosky: Bros Image - have you had time to read and digest my response?

my oga give me time oh, a little busied these days to do extensive posting.

^ adding to that, assurance of salvation is not necessarily point of salvation. methinks you Ihe mixed the two. no biggie anyway, you're saved and you can take that to the bank joor. i had a relative who wasn't sure of the date of birth. But we took one agreed date like that when we sang 'happy birthday'

gosh the man currently taking the heat, i wish you would rather ask God Himself to teach you. It'll give you life and light guaranteed. i seriously doubt if anyone hates you, a suspicious thing for a Christian BTW. Why not ask God more instead of this studying more. i guarantee there is nothing new under the sun, there may be new stuff above it though .

Ihedinobi: My own brother Image, is anyone's will free except to choose to whom he will enslave it?

Is anyone's will free to choose whom he will enslave it?

striktlymi: Lol!!! I am one of the fans cheering the teams on

no worry , na to dey throw my jersey to you after each match bi that. Just dey hail me for pitch. lol.

the seeds that you sow today will germinate tomorrow, whether good or evil

Consider this, can a shadow ever be separated from the body? maybe in darkness sha.

wow, i don't even know where to start from or if to start at all. I'm with frosb on this anyway. free will.

i see muskee is hoping.

funniest thread i ever read in this section i think. Hope some 'osazeic' fellow doesn't get twittic soon. nice one OP, nice one.
striktlymi, you no tell us where you dey play oh.

musKeeto: And I was addressing you...

ok.

and I will give you an heart of flesh.

actually, i was addressing onyfrank.

bolaino: and I assure u in a thousand years to come, people would have forgotten about jesus, the way they've forgotten about apollo and his lot, it will only take time, but it'll happen, and I assure u in a thousand years to come, people would have forgotten about jesus, the way they've forgotten about apollo and his lot, it will only take time, but it'll happen,

you can assure me of a thousand years? how convenient. Quite cowardly smart compared to Voltaire and Stalin who thought similar folly and put shorter time frame.

Pastor Kun: Would you stop lying you are yet to show us a single passage in scripture which instructs or even suggests christians should tithe.

stop posting as if your NL account will expire if you don't post, please.

Joagbaje: Telling others what you do is not wrong . It can only be wrong if it's done for the praise of men. And it's only God who can see or judge that

What do you say about paul announcing his labour in the lord!?

seems you have forgotten the OP, kindly re read.

bolaino boliano. Your senior atheists know the folly of arguing against Christ's existence, learn from them. They concentrate more on His Father and His Word. i'm beginning to doubt your existence as i cannot believe that there is a human being on NL that is completely certain that Jesus never existed. The myriads of people who saw Jesus and wrote about Him were what? Today is April 7,2013years after the death of Jesus. Wake up to reality.

garyarnold: Exactly what you are doing. The Spirit has shown me the fraud. I'm am no longer being led by the blind.

Exactly what the Bible says christians like me should do IF such a case arises. Go and read your Bible instead of all these links and videos on antitithing.

Joagbaje: What other explanation do u need here. The videos shows what he does .period . Is he supposed to publish bank transaction on tv?



Stop getting personal .we have our station and we publish to our partners what we do around the world
.
Besides There are several christian ministries who do charity works all over the world and publish them . Such as MERCY SHIP. why dwelling on tb Joshua case

He can publish it in the dailies or on the internet. Is he not the one who wants to provide things honest in sight of all men according to you? He is our case study and closer to home. He is the one being hailed on NL as the charity man. Answer my simple questions joor, which one be personal, don't you practice what you preach?
Romans 12:17
. . .Provide things honest in the sight of all men. ANSWER OH

Goshen360: Okay, @ Everyone,


First, Lemme say boldly & clearly here by God's grace given to me to be a student of the word, I'm subject to my fellow Christians here and I have people I also submit to, spiritual authority less I make myself 'lord of all'. The way I reason & understand scriptures, I pray most of you will 'covet' such gift, not that I'm perfect but God's gift worketh in me to work out his Grace.


Having said all that, lemme delve into where I clearly see the error of most who do not accept what I'm presenting to be true.
I'm tired typing joor. That's my submission.

You overrate yourself my guy.
O ti baaje juuuuuuuuu
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
don't let that spirit force you to type again, tell it you are tired.

Joagbaje: Like somebody said earlier, it's about accountability and to inspire . The money he use are from partners all around the world . It's biblical


Romans 12:17
. . .Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

Indeed. Why is he not declaring his account and telling us how he spends all so that he can provide honesty in sight of all men? Why was he going on national television to tell all of us that he helps the poor? Is that the way to provide things honest? Is that what you do or are you disobeying that interpretation? Is your church disobeying?

As is the usual and as i expected, they could not/refused to reply my post. It was too hot for them to handle perhaps. All they can come up with is some trite remark. Very soon, some other fellow will come and ask the same questions and be looking for who will answer him else he commits suicide. And the merry-go-round continues. i thank God that God is not man. We don't need phds and understanding of accounting terminologies before we can understand Him. We don't need useless clues and dead histories that give no life. We would rather be sheep and allow to be defrauded by our fellow brethren, thanks for your bogus concerns. i wait for debo BTW, he still manages to discuss.