₦airaland Forum

Think.

That Pope Francis is the visible head of the Church on earth ddoesn't mean Jesus isnt the head of the Church.

That Jesus made Peter our shepherd Doesnt mean he Jesus isn't the Shepherd.

That Jesus made Peter the rock doesn't mean Jesus isnt the rock.

That Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom doesn't mean Jesus doesnt hold the keys.

Dont let us start with JW as we did with Deeper Life o.

You remember how many times you people have lied that Jesus is coming back to earth abi? One time, when the date came and Jesus didnt return, your people lied again that Jesus had already come invisibly and had returned.

Take time o!

JMAN05: Sorry. the way you said sounded as if you were Catholic. Am JW. Jesus is the head(col. 1:18), no human takes that position. Body of elders direct our work in line with the scriptures as done in the past, not a one man's decision. Yours?

Happy Solemnity to everyone.

@peppyluv, I'm sorry we couldn't communicate via pm. My email has issues. If you give me your email, I'd be glad to send you an email. Thanks.

@ JMAN05,

You are unable to answer this question, it seems:

No, people who go to a particular place now do not worship in truth and in spirit...

Or No, they worship in truth and in spirit?

Also, why do you insist that the law has been abolished when Jesus says he didnt abolish it.

Is it you or the Jehovah's Witnesses that abolished it?

If so, who gave you the authority?

.

JMAN05: Fine. I will only say that the Matthew you quoted doesnt justify singing praise to mary like they did beside my house some days back.

I want you to do a little thinking about what I will say now. If Tuface can sing praise to Annie Macaulay out of love for that sinful one who might not even love him tomorrow, why can Catholics not sing praise to the Immaculate Virgin out of love for she whose love for her children is eternal?

Can you swear never to have praised anyone in your life?

JMAN05: Secondly your writeup doesnt relate to what we are discussing. I quoted i writeup from ur enclopedia under xtian worship. I am expecting ur reply sir.

The article talks about the evolution of worship as a word, including Christian worship. Your problem is that you are only conversant with your own age, the Church is 2000yrs old. What "Christian worship" means to you now is not what it has always meant. You must accept that!

I missed you on here

Missonas: I'll want to spend an hour with St Dymphna young,quiet,beautiful and very humble.widely known for her intercession for the abused or mentally imbalanced.depression is increasing at an alarming rate.life is difficult.Then an hour each with St Jude and St Anthony of Padua

THE SAINTS ALIVE (All Saints' Day)

Dear friends, today we celebrate our brothers and sisters in the faith who after fighting the good fight with courage, have won the crown of eternal salvation.

The Saints, we know, are now in heaven with God and are privileged to behold him as he really is. They continue to commune with us in prayer and intercede for us before our Lord.I invite you to share something about one or two saints that have inspired you, whether through your reading their story or through their intercession.It could be a quote by a Saint, a dramatic conversion of a Saint, an inspiring story, a short biography or anything edifying.

May the Lord bless us all and may we all be counted among the elect as we continue to struggle through the intercession of the Saints and our Mother Mary, who is Queen of all Saints.God bless you as you do so.

How I remember this hymn with fondness:

"O when the Saints...go marching in (2ce)
O Lord I want to be in that number...
O when the Saints go marching in."

^^^

So that was the thread I prepared to open but found two threads on "All Saints' Day" already.

What do we do? Do we share it here? Do we share it on one of those? Do we forget about it?

St John: Tell me about our blessed Mother. What was it like to have the Mother of God in your home? What secrets did she tell you about Jesus? What did she tell you about St. Joseph as a husband and father?...for I want to be one like him.

Dear friend,

Permit me to ignore you. I have found that truth is you biggest enemy.

One who serves you truth is only wasting time.

adsonstone: We have so many awesome guys on this thread

I think the subject of the matter now is the 'the bible and its books'

@Italo, the septuagint first compiled the ot and it has more books than you have in your ot today, do you agree with what they compiled?

If you do, why do you have lesser books in your ot today by removing some considering them apocrypha and whats the reason for the removal?

If you dont, then why do you disagree (with what they compiled)?

In truth, many of them, for various reasons.

St. Peter: I want to know what it was that you heard, saw or felt that made you leave your fishing boat, net and father? What was it about that 'man' from Nazareth?

How did you reconcile your rashness with being the head of the Church? It was you who swore to die with Jesus then went on to slice off the Guard's ear. The very night, your guts failed you and you denied the Master. It was you who felt so unworthy that you cried out: "depart from me o Lord, for I am a sinful man!" Yet Christ made you the rock on which he built his Church. Teach me dear Father Peter, for I am sometimes a man like you were. Teach me Father.

Did any pastor in the Bible use the tithe and offering money to buy private jet?

Ukuts gp: If any catholic member can answer this, i wud rest my case. The question is, did anybody in the bible ever ask mary to pray for him or her? Waiting 4 ur answer.

What did you see?

And what are you seeing in your new "church?"

asco15: The bible says that by their fruits you shall know them. what i see and observed in the cath ch shows lack of the spirit of God in the members.

Can someone forward this to the Uruguayan Government? So they'll think twice about legalizing Marijuana.

Ukuts gp: all u hv been saying is lie, lie and lie.

Ukuts gp: everyone knows dat catholic is nt a true church. Stop deceiving people. I repeat, stop deceiving people. It wont take u anywhere.

Ukuts gp: is ur miserable pope wu is teaching heresy nt ignorant? Compile d bible my foot. Rubbish.

Stop pretending. You are the one who has been attacking and castigating the Catholic faith these past weeks.

You are the one who said we are following the god samiramis.

Now you pretend as if you are the victim.

Liar!

asco15: Tank u brodas.
But u guys sud knw dat i cn't lie for i knw d consequences to my soul, wat i said is based on wat i went through, saw and observed.
Am nt forcing any body to leave d ch but i dn't like d way most of my former members are reacting as if am now a pagan since i left d cath ch, they even make it look as if i cn't make heaven witout devotion 2 mary.
U guys sud knw dat my life has greatly changed 2 better and i knw dat God is happy dat am nw living according 2 His righteousnes.
All my desire is 2 make heaven and let my brethren in cath also make heaven at last. And we need 2 cut-off anytin dat will hinder us from making heaven.
Tanks u guys, and am sorry if i offend any1.

I am a practising Catholic and I am experiencing the work and fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Why are you saying that this cant happen?

Are you the custodian of the Holy Spirit?

asco15: Becos i have practised some of them and they only thought me self righteousness and not the righteousnes by the holy spirit, dats why i cudn't ovacum some bondages and obstacles no matter my novenas, masses etc.

JMAN05: No. Jesus statement indicated that what he said hadnt taken place. he says; "the hour is coming". I have given a breakdown of the reasons.

though those in the past was helped by God's holy spirit, but the spirit came with a different operation in the first century.

There worship was also DOMINATED by wholehearted service not minding ur location. that of Moses required you to go to a location cos the authority to receiving God's favor is there and there alone, the ark.

worship of spirit and truth came into effect after pentacost.

You are saying those who go to a particular location now...e.g church, mountain etc dont worship in truth and spirit?

JMAN05: the ark is God's direction which is a representation of His presence, not image of Moses, Aaron, Joshua etc just like you make that of saints. God never sanctioned your making images for urself for worship purposes, not even in the law. He alone tells you what is needed as an aid to Him.

but now, I ask; Has the Mosaic law been abolished?

If it has been abolished: where did God say you should worship him with the use of images?

You still didnt answer the question: where did God tell you he had abolished the use of images? (There were images of cherubs with the ark).

The law has not been abolished.

JMAN05: that reply doesnt relate to what led to that comment. Your previous statement was not to any article but just the word worship. second reply pls.



No no no no, you dont u7nderstand that definition. that place is saying that it was the services this people rendered to God that made catholic to worship them. that agrees with the brief definition given to dulia. i quote:

"dulia; a term denoting servitude, and implying, when
used to signify our worship of distinguished servants of
God, that their service to Him is their title to our
veneration. "

It calls it worship, but a subordinate one. from the beginning of that definition if you go and read it(in the article), you will see that it says that the definition covers, honor paid to God, Jesus saints etc. if you just limit its meaning any how, then you will logical limit its meaning as it applies to God. if not you are not being consistent.

Remember the worship of God means that you sing praises to His name, pray, and adore Him. If there above definition is right, then it also means that you will have to pray, sing, and adore the saints (i know that you guys sing to Mary at least.)

See, if what you guys give to these saints is just respect, then what you give to these saints shouldnt appear under xtian worship. and when we say worship, as christians we know what we mean. (unless you have any biblical prove of another division of pure worship, subordinate and superior).

And dulia is exclusively for God. the bible doesnt divide worship like that.



We are talking about xtian worship. If by your veneration/honor you mean respect, then I agree with you. but if you mean that this subordinate worship also involves praying to, singing or adoring these persons or angels, then yes, I need your prove. because that is what is involved in this worship we are talking about. ESPECIALLY AFTER THEIR DEATH. You can also show me who sort for intercession by the dead.

Please read...but unlock your mind before you do.

Saint Worship?

The word "worship" has undergone a change in meaning in English. It comes from the Old English weorthscipe, which means the condition of being worthy of honor, respect, or dignity. To worship in the older, larger sense is to ascribe honor, worth, or excellence to someone, whether a sage, a magistrate, or God. For many centuries, the term worship simply meant showing respect or honor, and an example of this usage survives in contemporary English. British subjects refer to their magistrates as "Your Worship," although Americans would say "Your Honor." This doesn’t mean that British subjects worship their magistrates as gods (in fact, they may even despise a particular magistrate they are addressing). It means they are giving them the honor appropriate to their office, not the honor appropriate to God. Outside of this example, however, the English term "worship" has been narrowed in scope to indicate only that supreme form of honor, reverence, and respect that is due to God. This change in usage is quite recent. In fact, one can still find books that use "worship" in the older, broader sense. This can lead to a significant degree of confusion, when people who are familiar only with the use of words in their own day and their own circles encounter material written in other times and other places. In Scripture, the term "worship" was similarly broad in meaning, but in the early Christian centuries, theologians began to differentiate between different types of honor in order to make more clear which is due to God and which is not. As the terminology of Christian theology developed, the Greek term latria came to be used to refer to the honor that is due to God alone, and the term dulia came to refer to the honor that is due to human beings, especially those who lived and died in God’s friendship—in other words, the saints. Scripture indicates that honor is due to these individuals (Matt. 10:41b). A special term was coined to refer to the special honor given to the Virgin Mary, who bore Jesus—God in the flesh—in her womb. This term, hyperdulia (huper [more than]+ dulia = "beyond dulia", indicates that the honor due to her as Christ’s own Mother is more than the dulia given to other saints. It is greater in degree, but still of the same kind. However, since Mary is a finite creature, the honor she is due is fundamentally different in kind from the latria owed to the infinite Creator. All of these terms—latria, dulia, hyperdulia—used to be lumped under the one English word "worship." Sometimes when one reads old books discussing the subject of how particular persons are to be honored, they will qualify the word "worship" by referring to "the worship of latria" or "the worship of dulia." To contemporaries and to those not familiar with the history of these terms, however, this is too confusing. Another attempt to make clear the difference between the honor due to God and that due to humans has been to use the words adore and adoration to describe the total, consuming reverence due to God and the terms venerate, veneration, and honor to refer to the respect due humans. Thus, Catholics sometimes say, "We adore God but we honor his saints." Unfortunately, many non-Catholics have been so schooled in hostility toward the Church that they appear unable or unwilling to recognize these distinctions. They confidently (often arrogantly) assert that Catholics "worship" Mary and the saints, and, in so doing, commit idolatry. This is patently false, of course, but the education in anti-Catholic prejudice is so strong that one must patiently explain that Catholics do not worship anyone but God—at least given the contemporary use of the term. The Church is very strict about the fact that latria, adoration—what contemporary English speakers call "worship"—is to be given only to God. Though one should know it from one’s own background, it often may be best to simply point out that Catholics do not worship anyone but God and omit discussing the history of the term. Many non-Catholics might be more perplexed than enlightened by hearing the history of the word. Familiar only with their group’s use of the term "worship," they may misperceive a history lesson as rationalization and end up even more adamant in their declarations that the term is applicable only to God. They may even go further. Wanting to attack the veneration of the saints, they may declare that only God should be honored. Both of these declarations are in direct contradiction to the language and precepts of the Bible. The term "worship" was used in the same way in the Bible that it used to be used in English. It could cover both the adoration given to God alone and the honor that is to be shown to certain human beings. In Hebrew, the term for worship is shakhah. It is appropriately used for humans in a large number of passages. For example, in Genesis 37:7–9 Joseph relates two dreams that God gave him concerning how his family would honor him in coming years. Translated literally the passage states: "‘[B]ehold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and lo, my sheaf arose and stood upright; and behold, your sheaves gathered round it, and worshiped [shakhah] my sheaf.’ . . . Then he dreamed another dream, and told it to his brothers, and said, ‘Behold, I have dreamed another dream; and behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were worshiping [shakhah] me.’" In Genesis 49:2-27, Jacob pronounced a prophetic blessing on his sons, and concerning Judah he stated: "Judah, your brothers shall praise you; your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; your father’s sons shall worship [shakhah] you (49:." And in Exodus 18:7, Moses honored his father-in-law, Jethro: "Moses went out to meet his father-in-law, and worshiped [shakhah] him and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare, and went into the tent." Yet none of these passages were discussing the worship of adoration, the kind of worship given to God. 

Read more on

www.catholic.com

Remember Judas!

Remember the prodigal son!

They lost their salvation!

I kukuma know. It's just the temptation.

I think I'll take your advice.

woky: @Italo


pls leave dis dude, their is nothing u wil tell him dat wil make him blv the truth for he has already made up his mind not to accept the truth.(even when its obvious)

argue with him from now till 2moro, it wil neva arrive at a compromise

Eph 5:22 - Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:23 - Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.24 - Therefore as the church is subject to Christ, so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.25 - Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it:

@ Babestell, there are still some men who have decided to live by verse 25...whether many people preach it or not.

Hopefully, your man, (if you will not go into consecrated life...lol) will be a member of this our club. God help us.

5

Wow! I'm very thankful to God that I opened this thread. I opened it with several famous miracles, but I have been equally blessed by the testimonies of my brothers and sisters on nairaland. This one ranks up there.

I would like to open a similar thread on the miracles of the Blessed Sacrament on the feast of Christ the King in November (when we have "Corpus Christi" procession).

So brothers and sisters, please get your testimonies ready. I know there are many of them.

Thanks HurricaneChris and all for taking the time to share the good work of our Lord through the intercession of our blessed Mother.

It is you who has nothing to say. You who cannot even decide what the Bible is.

adsonstone: Bro, go and rest, you havd nothing else to say.

Where in the Bible did God make you the authentic interpreter of scripture for the whole world?

Which scriptures are you talking about? Your 73-book Bible which you got from "the Church in Rome (probably Catholic)" or Kumuyi's 66-book "bible" which he got from Martin Luther?

adsonstone: even from the scriptures, we know that some will fall away cos not all 'christians' will make it.

If there be any denomination that teaches contrary to the scriptures, it has deviated from the true church therefore, no longer part of the church.

Deeper life teaches in line and if theres any contrary thing you find, highlight them and lets review them.

adsonstone: That means the catholic church that was built down my street last year is also outside that church, right?

No. Because one businessman named Kumuyi did not just wake up and start build on his own authority. It was built by men under the authority of the Catholic Church world-wide.

adsonstone: The septuagint compiled more books than you have for the ot. You removed some and setteled with the rest, called that 'authoritative'
Luther removed those books cos he considered them deuterocanonical (not part of the hebrew bible). You removed some deuteurocanonicals (not all) and considered them apocrypha. The othodox accepts all

Isnt it you that admitted that the Bible was compiled in the 4th century by the Church on Rome? That book had 73 books.

Kumuyi says the Bible has 66 books. Both of you are anarchists.

Pope Francis & I agree: 73 books.

Kumuyi and you? Workers of lawlessness.

You are the one who declares that it teaches what scripture teaches. But it doesnt.

You make yourself the final authority. Where does scripture say "Kumuyi and adsonstone are the final authority on scriptural interpretation?"

adsonstone: Yes, it is.
Why? It teaches what they taught in their epistles and refers to the books of the prophets just as they also did.

Arrogant and obstinate ignoramus!

Martin Luther removed 7 books to make his own 66.

He tried removing the book of James too because it proves your protestant doctrine of "faith alone" a lie.

adsonstone: I stated exactly what I know, those books were compiled before Luther was born right?
There was no debate on those 66 books.

Martin Luther disputed them right?
Did he try to remove them? Yes (in the 16th century)
Could he remove them? No. (He doesnt even have the right to remove them)

I have those books in my bible, do you have them in yours? (I guess yes).

adsonstone: Tradition Jesus taught; The Eucharist, we follow that.

Other traditions contrary to scripture, we Ignore. Two opposing things cant be correct and God is never the author of confusion

You clearly adhere to only the tradition handed down by letter.

The Holy Spirit says otherwise.

He says hold fast to the ORAL traditions handed down from the apostles to their successors. He also tells those successors to hand it to their own successors.

Your Kumuyi is ignorant of this oral tradition because he Is not a part of this apostolic succession of Jesus' Church.

You are even more knowledgeable than him. You know that the Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church in the 4th century with 73 books. He is ignorant or hypocritical about that.

adsonstone: Regarding the bold, going by your analogy:
Jesus found His church in 33ce, it started in Jerusalem.

.....and Paul found the church at Galatia years after 33ce.

The galatians belong to the church Paul founded, not necessarily the one Jesus founded......right?

Paul never founded any Church. There's only one Church. The one that met in a council in Acts 15.

When that Church spoke, it was binding on all in Jerusalem, Rome, Galatia, everywhere.

Your Kumuyi and his personal "church" are outside of that Church.

adsonstone: Regarding the bible books issue, the compiled books consist of 66 books which there is no debate about, 7 books considered deuterocanonical or (apocrypha).
Those books are still a subject of debate among catholic, eastern othodox and protestants (some church fathers even say some of these books are not part of the biblical canon)
The protestants accept 66 undoubted books, Catholics, 73 books and the Eastern Othodox, over 73 books and even the Ethiopian Orthodox, 81 books.....now, does the Roman catholic church also ignore the remaining books and stick with 73 as authentic? Anarchy?

There's no anarchy within the Catholic Church. We canonized 73 books in the 4th century. You call that "final authority." Martin Luther removed 7 books, Kumuyi calls that "final authority."

You and Kumuyi are confusing yourselves and God's children.

JMAN05: Oga, I ve shown you bible/scripture in the bible before. scroll up.

No it was not written that he died, but the bible indicates that humans can die. so if you tell me that he died, i can believe you. But if there is a hint in the bible that he cant die, then i will not believe he died, no matter the history book that said it.

If someone comes to tell you that Peter was the ruler of the natural jews, or that Jesus was a fighter, will you believe because not everything is written in the bible? not likely. why? cos the hint in the bible go against that assertion.

I am not saying that everything is in the bible, but there is no relgious office called "Pope" in the bible, neither was a single person referred to as a pope in the bible.

Pls dont shift the issue i presented. Or was it you guys that created it and made a list of successors?

But the Bible tells us that there is one among the twelve who is the shepherd, who should strengthen the brethren, who the Church was built on - Peter... And that is what the Pope is. So what is your problem?

Ukuts gp: i know what is true and what is false from the bible

And you can never possibly be wrong or misinterpret the Bible?

You are perfect and infallible?

plaetton: There are studies that religious bliss makes people live a bit longer.
I want to live longer, so i think it's about time I start shopping for a religion.
I want to be in that religious bliss that have been spoken about for so long.

But before I jump in with out looking, I would like christians to sell me the Jesus product.
Tell me why Jesus is better for me than Mohammed or Buddha, or Traditional African Religions.

You already have a religion. - Atheism. The religion of the self. You make your own dogmas and evangelize it. Wetin remain again.

.

@ adsonstone,

Another set of facts:

Your "church" claims to regard the Bible as FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters concerning Christian conduct and work.

1. Your "church" is hypocritical. Because the Bible never say it is the final authority. And even if it were, that "final authority" clearly tells to hold to oral tradition, which your "church" is ignorant of.

2 Thes 2:15, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." Traditions! Traditions taught by word of mouth, in other words, oral tradition, and traditions taught by letter. Traditions which they are being told to "stand firm and hold to". Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

2 Tim 2:2: "and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also." What we have here in 2 Timothy is an instance, in Scripture, of Paul commanding the passing on of oral tradition.

2. You are hypocritical. If the Bible is the final authority, like you and your "church" say, why cant you allow me determine what is true and false from the Bible myself. Why do I have to listen to your interpretation to know truth and error?

You claim the Bible is the final authority while assume the position of final authority. Hypocrisy!

3. You and your "church" are anarchists. Your "church" says the 66 books are the final authority. You imply that there are 7 extra books that are part of the final authority. Meaning that your churches "final authority" is not final. Yet you claim your "church" and yourself are infallible. Anarchy!