₦airaland Forum

Aemmyjah:
Explain your last sentence on atheism let everyone here
You've not addressed the OP either
Note that I'm talking from both sides

Religious leaders in Nigeria are enriching themselves and burdening the people and playing politics
No one can convincingly say that Nigeria will get better if all were atheists... Atheists is not synonymous with humanism
Everyone has their own personal philosophy
There's a religion that it's name in English is translated as Peace but people link it with extremism, terrorism and social vices...
We cannot predict things accurately but an atheist Nigeria does not sound good... If everyone becomes an atheist, what force will push them to become more humanists? How will it sold the problem of greed, selfishness, egotism, etc that is so deeply entrenched in man that they preach in their religion but do not practice? These are questions
Already, Nigeria is something else

You have already determined that an atheistic Nigeria would not be good, so no amount of explanations would work. But lemme explain to those that can think.
I can't categorically say Nigeria would be better with atheism but I can draw my inferences to buttress my premises and conclusions. One of them is the fact from history. It is replete with data where lack of believe in certain religions lead to death. Example is religious wars like the Great Crusades, Huguenot Wars etc, and inquisitions like Witch Trials in both US and Europe. Imagine if all those people were atheists and humanists, do you think they'll go about murdering people for not believing in their favorite ice cream flavor?
Another inference, contemporary history. Relatively irreligious countries like Iceland, Eastern Europe, Scandinavians erc have relatively lower crime rates than the more religious countries which include Nigeria.
Also the inference of scientific integration. Atheists tend to be more scientifically grounded than theists. All these lynchings of suspected penis thieves won't happen in relatively atheistic countries because they know its not possible. Also belief in ritual money is absent in these nations. So you won't see people slaughtering themselves because they believe someone's head, breasts etc have some money minting properties.
Putting all these into consideration, Nigeria should be better irreligious

Botragelad:
You seem to have a very narrow and biased view of humanism and philosophy. You also seem to have a very distorted and selective view of morality and ethics.

Humanism is not just a philosophy, but a worldview that affirms the dignity and worth of every human being, regardless of their beliefs or backgrounds. It does not depend on any supernatural authority or revelation, but on the natural and social sciences, as well as the arts and humanities. This is not even a new or modern invention.

Dude, philosophy is not just a subject, but a method of inquiry that seeks to understand the fundamental nature of reality, knowledge, values, and existence. Philosophy does not provide ready-made answers or dogmas, but encourages critical thinking, creativity, and curiosity.

Again, atheism is not a belief system, but a lack of belief in God or gods. It does not imply anything else about one's worldview or values. Atheism does not mean that one has no purpose or meaning in life or that one has no morals or ethics. Understood?

Dude I like you already. Just reading two of your posts and I wanna like all your comments.
So on point

Aemmyjah:
I'm talking about morals
Now morals are subjective giving you limits to what you can do in relation to others as well
Even with Nigeria being deeply religious, it is just a delusion or formality and the nation is getting worse
How will atheism help?
Remember that the problems of Nigeria is moral not political

Common sense!

Lemme tell how atheism would help Nigeria.
They tell you in Christianity that fasting and praying for days, weeks etc would make Yahweh give you wealth, health etc. Well if this works, obviously Nigeria would have been one of the most prosperous nations. But it doesn't work and Nigeria is stuck in the doldrums, getting worse as the years go by, and as more and more christians and Muslims are born everyday. The obvious truth: no skydaddy anywhere.
Atheism teaches you to use your logical reasoning and scientific knowledge to broaden perspectives and utilize them in your day to day transactions. You won't rely on a non existent sky daddy to get work done. You actually use the time you would have used to do ineffective prayers to do useful stuff like educate yourself on scientific phenomena like Koro syndrome. Talking of Koro, if Nigerians are mostly atheists, you won't see anyone getting lynched for allegedly stealing someone's genitals. Thieves even use the opportunity offered by the 'stolen genital' commotion to steal
So tell me one advantage religion offers. Just one

Botragelad:
I disagree with your statement. You seem to imply that without religious and traditional and cultural beliefs and practices, Nigeria would be worse off. You also seem to suggest that the only reason people do good things or avoid bad things is because of their fear of God or their belief in accountability to a higher power. This is a flawed and insulting view of human nature and morality.

Nigeria is not a homogeneous country. It has a diverse population with different ethnicities, languages, religions, cultures, and traditions. There are many Nigerians who do not follow any religion or who have different beliefs and values than you do. They are not necessarily less moral or more corrupt than you are.

Plus, religion is not the only source of morality or ethics. There are many secular and humanistic philosophies that provide rational and universal principles for human conduct and well-being. These philosophies do not rely on the existence of God or any supernatural authority, but on the use of reason, evidence, empathy, and compassion.

To say the least, fear is not even a good motivator for morality or ethics.
A better motivator for morality or ethics should be love.

What happens when everyone believes that they are only accountable to self? Nothing bad, as long as they also believe that they are accountable to others. That is the essence of humanism: the belief that humans are capable of being moral and ethical without God or religion.
Simple sense!

The bolded statement is what I have been telling these numbskulls called Christians but they can't get it into their thick skulls.
Even the Bible morals were copied from ancient books like Hammurabi Code, Epic of Gilgamesh etc. Stone Age folks had morals before christianity or any religion came. And even with the advent of religion, morality didn't get better. In fact religion fueled more wars and killed more people. The Great Crusades, Huguenot Wars, Salem Witch Trials were all murderous and bloody acts foisted by Christianity alone

Aemmyjah:
With all the religious and traditional and cultural beliefs and practices, see what Nigeria is turning into out of greed and hypocrisy. What happens when everyone believes that they are only accountable to self?
Many of us don't do certain things or give in to some fleshly desires cos it's against our beliefs and out of godly fear which is fueled by knowledge of God. When that fear is no longer there, everyone do as they like without caring

It is even a damning evidence on your morality that you need threats of eternal damnation to be good in life. Not that that deters many of you cos christians and Muslims still do all sorts of crimes.
Atheists aren't bound by any threats or any holy books, yet we turn out good citizens. I guess you don't know many philanthropists are atheists or agnostics , from Bill Gates to Warren Buffett. On my own part, I donate blood to my own patients despite the bad reps doctors get from people like you. I do free online consults (as long as you don't disturb me in the middle of the night) etc.
So shut that trap of yours

Aemmyjah:
Increase in lawlessness

It it obvious your head is stuck in the sand.
Illiterate, do you know that relatively religious countries are more criminal than irreligious ones. Examples is African countries like Nigeria. On Sundays, you would see traffic on roads. Why? People trooping to church. But guess what, you can't leave your stall open, you can't build your house without tall fences, even infrastructures like railway tracks are stolen.
Compare it to Scandinavians like Norway, Sweden etc. On Sundays you can almost play football on their roads. But they have low crime rates. Netherlands are less religious than Nigeria with more atheists but their jails are almost empty.
Latin America is a Catholic stronghold. But where do we have big drug cartels? Yeah. Same Latin America. Pablo Escobar was a devout Catholic .
So take your ignorance and stuff it where the sun don't shine

Aemmyjah:
What feeds humanism? Philosophy?
Even most of our secular principles for conduct are things already taught by religious groups but people don't even apply it. Some do it out of a driving force - godly fear... If that fear, so powerful is gone, which philosophy will want me to pursue any moral ethics... It's just to live life as one pleases

One atheist here on Nairaland says and I'll mention him, that his purpose of life as an atheist is to be selfish. His name is Jaephoenix

Morality is subjective, subjective to what?
Remember that there is good morals amd bad morals
For example, there's dispute concerning homosexuality and some lands allow for bestiality... Do the authorities punish people for extramarital affair extramarital affair ; honesty... Everyone is just pursuing any philosophy that pleases him (religious and atheists)

1. Can you show me where I stated my aim in life is to be selfish? Please I need a screenshot. And if you don't provide it, that means you are damned eternally(according to your fairy tales)
2. Morality is relative. During the times the bible was copied, people were cool with slavery and misogynism. But these days, they aren't. That is relative morality. In fact contemporary morality can be relative. Example, homosexual marriage is illegal in Nigeria, but not so in South Africa

drimzsmoke:
Did you miss the part where I said the woman is para 6 (she just gave birth to the 6th child). How is that any government's fault I don't know about his employment status and i really don't care. A 39 year-old man has 6 kids and you're blaming the government Where I trained, I was told never to help pregnant women in labour financially. They told us it takes 9 months to deliver a pregnancy, hence you should be prepared. It is not an emergency!!!

The husband would wait till the woman is into labor before sourcing for money for a Caesarean Section. If you ask him why didn't he save enough money for the CS, he would tell you they didn't anticipate it. Really? So you don't anticipate an emergency caesarean? Some people can be irredeemably daft

CSTRR:
Is it poor people you should hate or the absolutely terrible govt in a country where the vast majority are too poor to be properly educated or to afford good healthcare.?

If the husband had a decent job, you think they would deliver at home?

Even when you educate them, they reject it. Go to the core North and see the mess the patients are into there. I served in Niger and I can tell you that state is royally fvcked health wise

drimzsmoke:
I saw a woman last week Thursday or Friday, para 6, with less than an hour-old neonate. She delivered at home and she had postpartum haemorrhage with retained placenta. The husband and mother-in-law kept trying local nonsense at home to stop the bleeding. By the time they rushed her in, she was already in respiratory distress and in shock....SP02 was less than 90, PCV was 13 or thereabouts, there was leave and black substances inside her vagina and all over her vulva.... I hate poor people ehnnn, they are menace to the society!!!

… and if she dies from PPH, they'll say its one witch uncle or auntie. In many states, management of PPH or other obstetric emergencies like ecclampsia is free but guess what, they first of all present in church or their granny house before going to hospitals when their vitals have gone down

Jeon:
I really pity Women for this.

Pity? Most of them are responsible for their own death. A woman would present with a previous caesarean section scar, along with a short inter-pregnancy duration and would still reject a caesarean section. Why? Because her pastor said so. Why should such women be pitied when they die?

Aemmyjah:
Lemme use primary school English as you have zero comprehension of English
Lemme illustrate it this way...

You are a doctor as you claim (deepest condolences to your patients now, then and future)
Now, there are incidences and reports of quack doctors in your hospital harvesting the insides of patients
Now, this is surely against the rules in your hospital and the management deleted those found guilty of such atrocity

How will you respond if someone says that you guys are quack doctors (He is saying this directly to you, even tagging the name of the hospital on an online forum)
What if he asks you, Do you have quack doctors in your hospital? That question is cunny... Sometimes, we think well before we answer questions.
What if he asks, 'Have there been reports of fake doctors in your hospital? And what is the stand of the management on that?

If Jaephoenix was confronted saying,' You guys are quack. Yes or No? He'll surely say YES...

Quack biologist, good morning
1. There's a difference between quack doctors and malpracticing doctors. The former is a fake doctor without the any or required qualifications, in this case the appropriate MBBS. He may practice proper medicine but he's not a doctor in the first place . The later involves duly qualified docs but performing actions that are against the ethics like organ harvesting etc.
If someone tells me there are reports of malpracticing doctors, I would never deny that. Why? Because I don't know the actions of the docs around . I can talk about myself, and not anyone else. Neither can I defend them anywhere. Its irrelevant if the management fires them. The truth is there were docs caught in malpractice. Their malpractices doesnt automatically remove their medical degrees, even though their licenses can be revoked by MDCN.
If someone asks, 'Have there been reports of fake doctors in your hospital? And what is the stand of the management on that?, I'll simply say we have quack/malpracticing docs. Management can fire them or hand them over to the police but cannot remove the fact they are doctors. Simple! Denying it won't change the anything.
I pray this simple fact seeps into your JW infested dimwit brain

cornelboy:
"Your family members are gays, rapist etc" carries the same weight and meaning as "all your family members are gays, rapists etc".

Even wole soyinka can't argue that.

"You guys are gays, rapist etc" means only some of few of us abi...you must be a clown and a dummy 🤡

Bro, do you have a problem understanding? 'Your' has already qualified the word 'family'. Its different from JWs. You know what? Forget I said if it was all or one JW member.
All these wild goose chase is just to deflect from the main matter, which was that Aemmyjah said those stories were lies.

Aemmyjah:
A certain school is said to be very strict and disciplined
Some students in that school were found to be rebellious and were expelled
Any who is caught showing rebellion is removed and that has been a warning from time to time and a written law
A fool carries the written document and starts telling people that there are rebellious students in that school. He did not mention what happens to such ones.
The school authorities understands that students tend to rebel against their teachers and some have given in to such spirit. Does the school tolerate that attitude? Is rebellion openly practiced? It is likely that rebellion will still happen in that school but the penalty remains the same - if the student is not repentant, he is removed...
A staff is right to say that there are no rebellious students in that school (at the moment and any if caught, he knows what will happen). The only lie is the staff saying nobody has ever rebelled in that school...

Pained, liar like Jaephoenix who has low comprehension of English is like the fool using that document to malign the school but deliberately hiding that rebellion is not tolerated and it is a grave offence... Child abuse and any form of abuse is a sin and crime... We must strictly follow what the Bible say regarding morals, any who do not accept it cannot remain in our brotherhood. He is removed and shunned... He can't even mention any incidence he is accusing us about that has happened around him but he can go and find witch hunt of a mad person calling himself JW and killing 13...

I stand by what I say
We are not rapists or molesters, we don't have or keep such. If you know any among us doing such, report him to us and see how we handle it
We don't tolerate or overlook such things else our worship is collectively in vain... Personally, I have heard of some of us who have been disfellowshipped, meaning that they did something really silly, they can't remain with us
How can someone condemn a group of tolerating and committing something they describe as a grave sin?

Jaephoenix has nothing meaningful to say... He's singing out empty songs to draw negative attention to those who beat his intelligence
Atheists are fools indeed... Worse reasoning than animals... Jaephoenix is in pain cos Max buried his god in a coffin filled with acid and sulfur

I'm not interested in knowing what happened to the miscreants. The question was did you have child mol@sters amongst you. Yes or no. You said no, all those stories are lies. All these idiotic rhetorics are irrelevant. You weren't even saying all these before. You just came out swinging that they are lies. I never knew JW are professional liars like this. Lol 😆

Aemmyjah:
No mind am
Pls ask him what percentage of us that he was accusing
Exposing his folly with his lies

Lol. Saying "JW are gays" has no percentage. I didn't use the words all, few, most etc. So it can be 2,5 or 1mil people. But not 1 or all the JWs.
Learn English language, no. Just dey read Watchtower
Your folks have turned blind eyes to your denials I showed them via screenshots . Lol 😆
I never expected much honesty from you folks. Now you guys have proved me right

cornelboy:
Your family members are gays, racist etc.
That doesn't include all your family members abi?
You go explain tire

Oh dear!
English language is really a problem for graduates.
When you say "your family members" you have already qualified the word family. This sentence is also different from "All Nigerians are gays". This last sentence deals with quantification.

cornelboy:
You no know anything for English.
"White men are racists" is same as "all white men are racists". Both sentences carry the same weight.
Comot your high school English for here.

Interesting.
And to think this one is a graduate. No wonder Nigeria is going backwards everyday, when basic English is poorly comprehended. Quantifier nouns are even high school English, and this one and his JW cohorts don't know it.
Anyway, I know you're trying to dodge the import of the screenshots.
Aemmyjah clearly said all the stories are lies. I'm sure your eyes didn’t make you see these posts

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted often remind me of how he used to call me out of fury because he can't just find a way to beat the intelligence of true Christians so he wants to chat with MadMax but he now needs the support of all his former enemies even though he knew they are empty upstairs!

I don't need support of theists. If you notice I didn’t tag any non JW theist, they found this thread themselves. Also I didn’t tag any atheist or agnostic. I can handle you guys with half a brain
Cretards

Aemmyjah:
He has lost relevance on his atheistic nonsense that does not make sense to him
He's still sad about how his intelligence was beaten by JWs
Instead of humbling himself to learn or retire away like his friend Worksch he forms alliance with the same people he had been taunting and called them fools since they could not debate him... They start throwing stones

Workch is an agnostic while am I an atheist. Different kettle of fish. I know it doesn't make sense to idiots like you folks. Also people have different use of their time. I get tired of arguing with cretards like you folks. Maybe its the same for him. Not active. If you notice too, I am less active and reply in threads after every 3 or 4 days.
So please fvck off with your self glorification. Nothing makes JW folks any more intelligent than the average theist. Like I say, its hard being a theist and harder being a JW

MaxInDHouse:
https://www.nairaland.com/7659505/book-bible-gaffes
"The Book Bible Gaffes"
After weighing all those he tagged "THEISTS" he realized that the Bible is giving ATHEISM a big problem so he attacked the Bible out of all the so called Holy books he can think of.
But after observing the constructive arguments coming from Jehovah's Witnesses he decided to tag God's people with other.
https://www.nairaland.com/7835557/question-jw-other-pacifist-organizations
"Questions for JWs"

Now he is really worried that all his arrows aren't causing any damage ọmọ the atheist left all others behind and focused on his real problem.
notice how he mentioned his enemies by calling them in full strength:
"JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"

https://www.nairaland.com/7851858/immorality-amongst-jehovah-witnesses
"Immorality amongst Jehovah's Witnesses"

This time no hide and seek, no need of abbreviation!

This deflection is world class. I have to applaud you. Powerful deflection.
Anyway I chose to open those threads especially this one cos of my encounter with cretards like you. Then Aemmyjah started his denials of JW articles and thus I opened this one. One thing leads to another.
So now I have wasted a few minutes digressing, lets get to the topic of this thread. Whats your take?

MaxInDHouse:
I'm not interested in wasting my time with the one who has already declared himself enemy of reasonableness because he will continue to invite everyone to come and support him against you even those he often refer to as BRAINLESS FOOLS will become his ally now that this is about JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

So have you seen the screenshots? Or are you gonna pretend you didn't see where he was denying those stories?

Aemmyjah:
Pained Jaephoenix
Jaephoenix who was showing off his god of atheism is pained that his god has m been defaced, nailed into its coffin and buried in the sea
He has lost relevance on Nairaland and made alliance with those he used to tag as unintelligent to talk nonsense against those who defeated his useless theories...
If you like, tag every single member of us as a molester... It's your own problem... Same you went to go find one fake story that one went about murdering 13 people... If such things is what is making you relevant on NL, continue
Worksch has retired his head in shame, you're out for spreading lies and slander

I have never said JWs are perfect people
We don't have molesters and immoral people, once they are exposed, they are removed if they are unrepentant. You yourself saw that we called child abuse as a grave sin, you ignore that part and start sharing nonsense to mislead others just as Darwin misled you...
You said we guys are molesters and in English, it could mean all of us or the majority of us... Since you can't comprehend English language, your illustration of using 'Doctors' shows you need to really enroll for English class

If I say white men are racists, I am implicating the majority of them or all of them
Go and sit down... See what envy has brought you to

There you go at the bolded. Still denying. Cornelboy shebi u don see dis one now. Lol 😆
Bro go back to kindergarten and learn English.
If you say white men are racists, you're not saying all white men are racists. You haven't added any quantifers in the sentence. It can mean 2 or almost all white men. But not all white men.
Why am I explaining simple high school English to so-graduates?

cornelboy:
Na now I know say you no sabi anything for English.
"You guys" refers to who?

'You guys' refers to the JW organization.
In case you failed simple Use of English in high school, lemme explain simple grammar.
If I say 'you guys' or 'JW' it doesn't mean all JW members. It can mean 2 people,5 people, 1000 etc. Its not quantifiable because I didn't use the word 'all'. I didn't even use 'most'. I used a non-quantifiable term. Obviously its not possible for every single member be mol@sters. Even I would not say or believe such.
Trying to split hairs is not gonna help your cause, or the cause of Aemmyjah. He plainly said all those accusations are lies. You can see them there in those screenshots. He even kept on denying when screenshot of jw.org came up.

cornelboy:
You want him to agree with you when you said "you guys are gays, rapists etc"? 🤦🏾‍♂️
Which kind school you come go

Lol. So there are no JW r@pists or mol@sters? Yes or no?
Or you wan start your own denial too?

cornelboy:
You are lying through your teeth lol

Lol. This guy. Answer this question.
Doctors are quiet.
All doctors are quiet.
Are these 2 sentences the same? Did you see me use the word 'all'?
Did you complete high school English
You completely ignored the screenshots I posted to back my claim that Aemmyjah denied JWs are culpable, and now you're chasing non existent shadows.
At least the world now knows how you guys twist and turn when caught

Aemmyjah:
Jaephoenix is no longer that 'intelligent' atheist challenging the existence of God on Nairaland land
He's not that embittered, pained, defeated slanderer seeking attention by casting lies and propaganda on who defeated his intelligence and forming alliance with those he used to troll
If I were him, I'd be begging Alaga Darwin for disappointing him
We that follow Jesus are deceived by white man's god according to him but Darwin is not a white man abi na Urhobo man? Seeing that logic, after trolling others of following white people sheepishly changed tactics and said that atheism is what the white men are now turning into and leaving religion...
Pained Jaephoenix
Jaephoenix, you don jam wetin pass you... All you are doing is just out of envy like an arrogant boxer who suffered a big knockout and starts throwing chairs and objects at his opponents and his team...

Lies and propaganda? Lol 😆
Can you point out one lie

Aemmyjah:
Cornelboy

Imagine a family where one or two members are accused of stealing and in your strict family, those ones were disciplined for such shame (which family is perfect?). Any who rejects discipline is disowned and sent packing to clear the family name and he should not influence others negatively

Someone comes and says that all your family are thieves
OR
You are housing thieves in your family
OR
Your family tolerates stealing and this same person was saying your family is unloving by sending the thief packing and still calling them thieves... Is that person not very abnormal?
When we hear that someone has been disfellowshipped, is it not because he's guilty of committing a serious sin?

Because the religious people allied with him to throw stones, he is making it look like such things are only reported among us... The same person posting one useless story of murdering 13 people by one mad person... Listening to jaephoenix is now like listening to a mad man romance song

Again, we don't have rapists or immoral people in our organization. Once they are exposed, we remove them...
Today, we can't say that schools tolerate cultism or practice them cos one or two or three persons was caught... The school admitting that some of their students joined cultism but were expelled makes it look like the school is occultic shey? People who are jealous of that school will say such things

Lol. Nobody said all JWs are mol@stors and rapists. And it's not even possible for every single member of an organization or denom to be r@pists. And I definitely didn't say it.
You're twisting my words. I told you there are dirty stories about your organization and you came out plainly to deny them. I have sent screenshots of your plain denials. Please tell me I made them up. Lol 😆

cornelboy:
Send the screenshot of where he said JWs don't sin here.

Heres some of the denials. I didn't get all the screenshots. Had to upload them since Nairaland allows only 4 pics
https://ibb.co/zXKFdcR
https://ibb.co/dLCnGK0
https://ibb.co/qWb187q
https://ibb.co/mqsN4V7
https://ibb.co/fkN7xjk
https://ibb.co/jbsngdZ
https://ibb.co/fkcYBn0
https://ibb.co/7KLnRHz

gisevak:
The need for logical proof often arises when a negative statement makes a factual assertion or a claim about reality. You made a factual claim that there is no Creator, so I demand you state your proof. Don't come here and ask me for any proof if you can't provide evidence for what you claim. You are more ignorant than the way I see it. Personally, I don't claim to have concluded that there is no Creator, nor do I accept it fully. I am just on neutral ground. I'm sorry for this generation of woke atheists who claim there are no creators because they read a book that doesn't prove the existence of a creator.

Since you don't know if theres a creator, how would you know its qualities?

gisevak:
I might be talking with a kid who doesn't see life beyond the mother's home. It's like saying there is no food in the house. And someone pointed out the rice in the house. My fellow still said there is no food; I should show him or her food. And he or she is seeing food on the table. And he or she would still ask for evidence of food. Does this really make sense at all? 
A reminder: evidence of a creation is natural creations like humans, trees, etc. Does making illogical guesses nullify the existence of a creator because you didn't see it? Provide answers to the questions being asked.

You're still insisting humans and trees are created?
Damn dude! Have you completed high school?

gisevak:
I have been an atheist before, and I have done more than you have. See, I had first-hand experience of a spiritual word existing. I have had my first experience with dead-people communication. This life is beyond the material or physical world. You have been lied to! It's more honest and logical to be open-minded about things than dogmatic about them. Atheists are even more dogmatic about their views than theists. Science books are their holy books, just as the Bible is the book of Christians. Science has been politicized. The truth has been hidden.

Aha! There you go!
Please do share your supernatural experiences

gisevak:
Natural means" refers to processes, actions, or methods that are part of or consistent with the laws and principles of the natural world. There are artificial creations, like drugs. Can you prove there is no natural creation by natural means? Maybe you could state where scientists say those natural creations are not creations created by natural means. 

Are mountains created? Were animals created? Yes or no