₦airaland Forum

Steep:
having more christians by name in Nigeria will not reduce the suffering rather do Nigerians accept God's ways of life?

Actually, Nigerians are even better religiously. Many more irreligious countries exist who are much better than Nigeria. Yet they didn't accept your god's ways

Dtruthspeaker:
Just like you father Satan you already know what God has Said, so you can not feign lack of knowledge.

Ah, the gaslighting begins in full force

Dtruthspeaker:
Satan's son, you already know that you are talking rubbish for you already know that God has changed Plans and has made a different move now! But as the evil that you are, you must always speak evilly.

Really, he changed plans? And intimated only his earthly scribe DTruthSpeaker? Interesting. So what's the details of his heavenly plans, sire?

Dtruthspeaker:
Sure! But now The Protector warned them that He Himself will destroy them when they mess up, is that difficult to understand?

Obviously you have never read the Bible therefore, you were not even a church goer. Which means you are a Muslim or so. So you attack us because you hate us and of course jealous of us!

Lol. Bro, I was an ex-christian. Precisely Pentecostal. Then also an ex-Scripture Union.
Then was an ex Christian Union back in school.
The Bible said Israel would be raped etc etc. But the problem is yall christians are confused. When Israel is raped, y'all tell us god said it. Then when they win a war, y'all tell us god is protecting them based on his promise. I'm not hoodwinked by such inconsistency. Only cretards are

Dtruthspeaker:
You people really never read the Bible else you would have seen that Moses spelt it all out very precisely and clearly all that shall happen to them which we have now seen did happened to them.

They were overrran and overcome by enemies as Moses Said.

They were taken into captivity as Moses Said,

They were nearly wiped out asoses Said.

Can you give us the relevant verses and the associated prophecies? Please no gaslighting

NNTR:
1 Kings 18:21-39
21Elijah approached all the people and said,
“How long will you hesitate between two opinions?
If the LORD is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.”
But the people [of Israel] did not answer him [so much as] a word.
22Then Elijah said to the people,
“I alone remain a prophet of the LORD, while Baal’s prophets are 450 men.
23Now let them give us two oxen, and let them choose one ox for themselves and cut it in pieces,
and lay it on the wood, but put no fire under it.
I will prepare the other ox and lay it on the wood, and I will not put a fire under it.
24Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD;
and the god who answers by fire, He is God.”
And all the people answered, “It is well spoken.”
25Elijah said to the prophets of Baal,
“Choose one bull for yourselves and prepare it first, since there are many of you;
and call on the name of your god, but put no fire under it.”
26So they took the bull that was given to them and prepared it,
and called on the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying,
“O Baal, hear and answer us.”
But there was no voice and no one answered.
And they leaped about the altar which they had made.
27At noon Elijah mocked them, saying,
“Cry out with a loud voice, for he is a god;
either he is occupied, or he is out [at the moment],
or he is on a journey.
Perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened!”
28So they cried out with a loud voice [to get Baal’s attention]
and cut themselves with swords and lances in accordance with their custom,
until the blood flowed out on them.
29As midday passed, they played the part of prophets
and raved dramatically until the time for offering the evening sacrifice;
but there was no voice, no one answered, and no one paid attention.
30Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come near to me.” So all the people approached him.
And he repaired and rebuilt the [old] altar of the LORD that had been torn down [by Jezebel].
31Then Elijah took twelve stones in accordance with the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob,
to whom the word of the LORD had come, saying, “Israel shall be your name.”
32So with the stones Elijah built an altar in the name of the LORD.
He made a trench around the altar large enough to hold two measures of seed.
33Then he laid out the wood and cut the ox in pieces and laid it on the wood.
34And he said, “Fill four pitchers with water and pour it on the burnt offering and the wood.”
he said, “Do it the second time.” And they did it the second time.
And he said, “Do it the third time.” And they did it a third time.
35The water flowed around the altar, and he also filled the trench with water.
36At the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet approached [the altar] and said,
“O LORD, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel (Jacob),
let it be known today that You are God in Israel and that I am Your servant
and that I have done all these things at Your word.
37Answer me, O LORD, answer me, so that this people may know that You, O LORD, are God,
and that You have turned their hearts back [to You].”
38Then the fire of the LORD fell and consumed the burnt offering and the wood,
and even the stones and the dust; it also licked up the water in the trench.
39When all the people saw it, they fell face downward; and they said,
“The LORD, He is God! The LORD, He is God!”

What is Truer than truth?
Answer: The story, History, His Story

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

What are you on about?

Kobojunkie:
But there is nothing to dodge!

And no, what you have been doing is instead akin to thinking the bible a book you can ignorantly throw anything at when clearly it ain't.

Keep dodging. I don't have your time. If you don't have answers, just swerve

A001:
This guy doesn't know it was some past humans that invented all the languages spoken today, that it was some past humans that first made iron tools, first built houses with a brick, first climbed a mountain, first cultivated some plants, first tamed some animals, and many other firsts.

All these people were deified as a god or goddess by their people for their feats, which the common people (the average persons) saw as supernatural or spiritual. Hence, the gods were exaggerated as spirit beings, not mere humans.

That's real history, not a claim.

He thinks hunters and blacksmiths in Yorubaland call god Ogun the first alagbede for nothing.

The deities were a human first before they became a god and are simply the ancestors of their people.

Why are you forcing the issue?
You laid some statement, someone asked you to bring data verifying it, you declined in a rude way. And you still went ahead dropping more random false statement.
Just move on

A001:
I see you don't have anything in your head than engaging In Nairaland arguments. I've better things to do with my time than engaging in a silly debate on whether the gods worshipped by religious people existed as a human in the past or not, when that fact is obvious to anyone that studied history of humans and of religious gods.

Calling gifted humans like Messi, Einstein, Ronaldo, Pele a god is an age-old practice which forms the origin of religion. Keep finding evidence for a glaring matter.

I won't be engaging you in a silly debate. The gods were human first before they were deified by lesser humans, and god/God is man-made.

Keep looking for evidence for that all about since you're jobless.

Only those that don't know history argue over a simple fact.

Ok, bro. Have a good day then

Aemmyjah:
1. In human analogy (for now), it is not possible. Scientists may invent such 'wings' in the future. Today, humans can reach the summit of any mountain even without climbing... I will not believe cos we are not made to fly and we don't have wings. Just as you can buy something with money when you have no money except on credit.


2.
Hmmm
So you became an atheist... Cos you realised there was no God or because you did not seem to get satisfying answers to your questions about him or you don't understand why some things happen which you feel that a loving God should have prevented or solved from happening?
What meaning do you have as an atheist? What joy or satisfaction do you have as an atheist? What were your answers and what was the source of your answers?
We all ask questions. I had mine too. I almost became an atheist, I was always asked to shut up and stop asking too many questions, the hypocrisy was too much. I was struggling with porn, I seem to be enjoying it and getting bored from it at the same time but everyone in the church had it in the gallery including the pastor. I'm not lying, when everyone had gone home (as I always locked the doors after service). He plays it and won't even bother to turn down the volume.
Besides, I'll come late to church and be condemned to go to hellfire without asking why I was late. I could not save, they talk about money so much that our conscience will be telling is we could be bankrupt if we kept our money at home...
I lost faith, I asked questions and was beginning to have a shipwreck of faith in God. Once I wished I was made as an animal not knowing or understanding life or as a Rock or mountain. Life was meaningless. I looked up at night and cursed God as wicked and said he's cruel and so undeserving of worship to watch us suffer... I determined to be an atheist when I leave my parents house and enter the university. But then, I prayed. I didn't know how to pray and I did not like praying for people I don't know to die or thunder strike them and I don't like praying for materialistic wealth. I wrote a letter to God telling him all my feeling, how I felt about him and what I wanted to do and asked he intercede and reveal the truth about himself to me so I will know the truth and worship him with joy or I become an atheist and be a bonafide citizen of hellfire. I never hoped to get an answer cosi placed it under a table in church and later removed it. If I didn't see any answer to my prayers I offered by mouth, na letter wey I hide for under table for pulpit God wan take answer? Me wey no get faith say God de even hear prayer or even mind me
That was a turning point in my life
That's how my happy new life began
Everything was a miracle
If I don't believe God ever answered my prayers, I can't deny that one. I'm so thankful now to be alive, a human and to come to know God. That's part of our purpose. We will never live meaningful life if we don't come to recognize that there is someone that made us and we're not here by accident and only him can tell us WHY we are here and how to find meaning in life. If you leave a tenant in a house that everything is computerized, he'll always be frustrated and unhappy until he receive the guide on how to live in that house. Just as you can't use a boat on a highway or bicycle to cross a lake, we can't derive any satisfaction without knowing the TRUE meaning of HOW we came to be, WHY we are here, HOW to derive meaning in life, WHERE we are going to and these are questions that scientists and philosophy cannot answer... Only God, who is the source of life is. You may deny the evidence but it leave you without hope and reliable guide. Trying to live life without recognising who made it and why he made it is like trying to use a complicated device or without knowing the manufacturer and it's purpose
If you were taught the TRUTH about God just as I wasn't, the problems of life will have made us draw closer to him based on the knowledge of him and to comfort ourselves and others but due to lies and the questions that religious leaders could not answer, we were amiss and lost. See, you are lost but deceiving yourself that you are found. I may liken your situation to someone that was drowning but manage to find himself in a desert but he is happier that way and feels he's in the best place on Earth when there's actually a paradise

God is love. A loving God won't force anyone to worship him against their freewill. He gave us that freewill and respect it

1. You don't believe me, right? Good. So how do you want me to believe all the stories in the Bible? From talking donkey and snake, one man killing hundreds with just a jawbone, a man surviving in a whale for days etc. If you didn't believe me, how come you believed all those stories, without even a shred of evidence?
2. Yup I realized there's no god, or he's doing a damn good job of hiding from his creation.
What do you mean 'what meaning do you have as an atheist?' Its a vague question. We exist because we exist. When your watch is done, you leave and become manure and nurture the earth, giving back what you used up.
The joy I derive as an atheist? Joy of knowing that I understand the scam involved in religion.
The source of my answers was the world. Observing natural phenomena without the intrusion and delusions of religion. Watching the world through a religion-tinted glass strips off truth and adds a veneer of deception. Example. 4 years ago, I had lumbar radiculopathy. I couldn't walk properly. Had numbness and spasm, which was worse inye left leg. I limped for 2 months. I didn't see any Orthopedic or Spinal surgeon. I handled the case on my own with my medical knowledge. Didn't pray or fast. I got okay in 2 months. Imagine if I was a theist and praying, I would have attributed it to yhwh. Same if I was Muslim etc.
I don't understand your analogy of using a boat to cross a highway. Makes no sense.
And no, god didn’t give us a freewill. Aint nothing like it. And aint nothing like your god

Aemmyjah:
If it is infallible
It is not sufficient or authoritative enough to dismiss the account of the great deluge.
If I may ask, at what point in your life did you become an atheist? Why?
No good reason for atheism

Good.
1.?Let me ask a question. What if I tell you I flew on wings to UK and back? Would you believe me? Why?
2. Became an atheist way back, like when I started practicing. Getting to 17 years. I observed a lot of patients dying, even with prayers. I had a pastor patient who used to conduct miracles in his church, but he's being managed for diabetes and hypertension. Back when I was in Port Harcourt. Asked a lot of questions about Christianity, then about religion as a whole. Nobody could answer them, including pastors. Finally dug up the answers myself

A001:
I don't have time for nonsensical arguments. Whether any god existed in the past as a human or not is inconsequential because only the living do things, and the gods of religion are all useless.

Don't mention me to ask me silly questions.

I just saw in your description that you're a physicist and agnostic. Those 2 qualities rely solely on evidence and data. Pray, how did you have such beliefs(without a shred of evidence) and still turn out to be an agnostic physicist. That's head scratching, bro

Aemmyjah:
1. You yourself knows and acknowledge that science does not have all the answer even though the event is recorded by many legends and history all over the world

I know science doesn't have all the answers, and it tells you itself that its infallible. But you folks say religion has all the answers, yet the so-so-called answers are either confusing, contradictory or lies
2. Please which 'legends and history' recorded the bible events?

Steep:
Israel has already fallen away from God by rejecting Christ.

But right now, Nigeria has more christians than Israel, yet our suffering compared to theirs is worse, and worse as we speak

Kobojunkie:
in the same bible, the same God is written to have gathered enemies against His own Israel on more than one occasion, but you conveniently skipped over all of that , right?,

So he hates his people?

MaxInDHouse:
Most people thought the God of Abraham is only for the Jews because he often called himself the "God of Abraham, God of Isaac and God of Jacob" (Israel)

But that's a totally wrong impression. The true God chose Abraham due to the man's attitude and from among the man's eight sons God picked just one due to the same reason and Isaac (Abraham's son) had just two son out of which God chose one over the the other for the same reason.

So it's based on people's attitude that God select them to become His friend not just due to their ancestral lineage as most people had been taught.

Now back to your question!

The God that often fought in ancient times for the Israelites condemned that nation in the first century when they rejected the Christ sent to them {Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38} all the promises God made to Abraham {Genesis 12:1-3} is to be fulfilled through this child born among the Jews in the first century {Isaiah 9:6} he was to teach them how to take God's word to all the nations {Matthew 24:14; Act 1:8} because God's Kingdom (government) is coming to put an end to human rule permanently {Daniel 2:44} human government has led to so much suffering and injustices {Ecclesiastes 4:1; 8:9} but when he arrived the Jews were anticipating a racist who will conquer the whole world and make the Jews dominate all other nations! Act 1:6

So because he taught them to love even those they view as enemies {Matthew 5:43-48} and at that time the Romans was colonizing them they taught if truly he's the expected Messiah he supposed to go and destroy Rome but Jesus was preaching love they concluded that he's just a nuisance who will make them to continue serving under Rome {John 11:48} so they conspired to get him killed. John 11:53

That was the greatest blunder ever committed on this planet.

Should i continue?

What the fvck are talking about? You're not making sense Max

Dtruthspeaker:
What is there to prove when clearly God Foresaid it and had warned them that this was going to happen?

Where was the warning? I hope you know the bible narrative is inconsistent

Dtruthspeaker:
Ehen na so you dey drink mumu water? Did you not hear that God told them that when they mess up, that they would have been completely wiped out like Sumeria if not for Abraham?

Or is it air that is making people stupid and mad?

But I thought you guys said god is always protecting them.

dandollaz:
This is one of the best Nonsense topic in 2022.

Gaslighting at its finest. If you don't have the answer, why don't you chill or just say you don't know. Nobody knows it all

A001:
Continue holding onto your beliefs ignorantly. You must be a kid not to know that the gods worshipped in religion are mostly the ancestors of the inhabitants of the place the religion originated from.

That's a simple fact.

Don't mention me for a fruitless, trivial discussion in a new year when you're supposed to make your findings from the literature and examples I've given already.

Believe whatever you want.

I know your type. Ask them for evidence and they berate, insult and gaslight you all the time. Same tactics pastors and other religious figures use for brainwashing their gullible followers for ages.
Anyway, sorry bro for asking for evidence. Happy New Year

Kobojunkie:
Wow... asking a Blackman to read a book in order to educate himself is a problem? Whodathunkit!

You're just dodging my question. I have read your bible from cover to cover, reason why I'm an atheist. And you want me to read it again, because you're cornered in a debate?
Its just like me asking you to read a whole chemistry text because I asked you a question on electrochemistry

Dtruthspeaker:
See the pictures here
https://www.nairaland.com/7501497/200-cars-involved-massive-collision#119524708

Good. So your point is?

Kobojunkie:
Read the book..

And ladies and gentlemen, there lies the problem with our resident junkie. S/he wants me to read all through the Bible this night. Alright then, have a good night. Happy New Year in advance

A001:
I should get you evidence instead of you reading the religious texts I mentioned first. I don't have time for a silly argument when a new year is on the horizon.

Believe whatever you like. Maybe you think many places in Nigeria were named after one god/goddess for nothing.

You don't know many times, that person founded or first settled in that place carrying his or her name. Sango in some Yoruba states is a good example.

Sango had lived in the past and was deified as a god and different places in Yorubaland are called Sango.

There are several other examples but I don't have the time for an argument in a new year.

This is usually the issue I have with theists. Just because someone wrote a book about something, doesn't validate it. Again, anyone can write anything and some dimwits would imbibe it as gospel truth without verification.
Please if you cannot verify your claims, then it's dead on arrival. Allow me to have my own beliefs which is based on facts and evidences.

Kobojunkie:
Read the book to at least understand it from the perspective of what is written before you go around thinking you argue against it intelligently.

So where did I go wrong?

Dtruthspeaker:
Let me get this right! Do we have kind kwords for people who do bad things eg politicians, ashawos and ashawo chasers, adulterers etc?

Is calling a bandit/armed robber and a wicked person their name an insult?

Lol. Let me get this right. Do we have kind words for people that abuse others online at the slightest chance?

Dtruthspeaker:
Your thread is already tailored towards bullying Christians and look at my first response, I just addressed the issue only, I did not insult anyone.

Then this devil comes and his first words was to insult me and you did not say anything.

I thank God that the injustice you people give is what you get.

As you can see, you started with the insults, sir. But I would still like to apologize though

judedwriter:
The major sin of the African black man is idolatry/witchcraft.

The major sin of the European/American white man is racism/homosexuality/

These sins have different consequences.

Can you elaborate on the different consequences, and point out if the consequences are being manifested?

Kobojunkie:
Is that any different from when the Babylonians, the Greeks or even the Romans sacked Jerusalem? Stop confusing one thing with another!

Lemme get this right. So the good lord had a covenant with his chosen guys. Then watched on in amusement as they are raped, scattered and murdered? Does it make sense to you?

A001:
Don't ask me a silly question. People that know the history of religion know the gods in religion are past humans.

It's common knowledge. First educate yourself before you argue.

For instance, you don't know Esu, Sango are past humans abi.

Sango that used to spit smoke from the mouth and later committed suicide which formed a proverb in Yoruba.

These things are common knowledge.

Just like some gifted humans of the past were deified in the past by their peers for exceptional feats, humans also deify gifted people today as well as a god, e.g. Messi, Pele, Ronaldo, and many others.

But due to civilization, these gifted people are no longer worshipped as humans used to do in the olden days.

Get a book of human history and learn.

Studying books of history of religion and religious texts, the human traits of the gods of religion become clear, and the fact they're past beings is also clear.

No sir, its not common knowledge. If it was, you wouldnt be having a debate about it. Again, where is the backup of your story? Anyone can cook up a story and hoist it on us and tell us 'its common knowledge'. Such hoodwinking and fallacious statements won't fly by smart people. So please get me evidence

Dtruthspeaker:
Did you see the 2 beautiful words you used up there to define calamity? Is 200 vehicles not damage and distressful enough to warrant being called a calamity?

Just chill. You do not have any valid thing to say!

Were the vehicles damaged?

A001:
They're dead people. Read the Book of the Dead, Ifaodu, and other religious texts to learn that most of the gods worshipped in religion are past humans.

For instance, Sango, Osun, Ogun, Orunmila, Gaia, Atum, etc. have all lived in the past. Get their religious texts and learn more and stop arguing ignorantly.

If not for civilization, people would have worshipped Pele, who just died, as a god.

The gods are past beings and are a human construct.

Past humans that first did something great in their land that no one had done in the past were deified as gods and goddesses, including past humans that invented all the languages spoken today.

This guy obviously knows little about human history.

Is there any historical or archaeological evidence of this book of the dead?