₦airaland Forum

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InesQor: Hi Jay. I dey alright oh, thanks!
I agree with you that there is a lot of controversy on this topic.
Odd as this will sound, I also agree that many things we currently cannot explain in science might be due to higher and undiscovered science. Where we will probably disagree is that for me as a theist, I believe some non-physical things can be interaacted with at those higher levels of science. This belief is of course as yet unfounded in science but it's my personal view.
I like your example about congenital analgesia, but one can even explain it away as toughened conditioning to resist pain (not necessarily that the pain was not felt).
But for instance how would you take it as a scientist if you see a human being that cannot burn (or at the very least get scarred in a fire) or cannot get impaled (like this guy)? That would mean the person's skin has some property that makes it impervious (it's the stuff of superhero legends) and definitely defies our current science. Either the skin has some extraordinary quality, or there is a non-physical / intangible barrier to the skin. Either case is unusual, so I will not be quick to dismiss one rather than the other, especially when we have no cause to accept that the man's skin is any different from yours.
Note that I do not claim this is a proof of any sort for intangible forces. But unless the Nat Geo guys are in on some massive conspiracy, this just might be a tiny tip in the balance.

Lets see if we can harmonize.

in my opinion, when you dont know the reason/answer to something, every possibility exists until examined and discarded. In that wise then, the supernatural/mystical is a possibility that may deserve consideration. The problem with this is that by virtue of its nature, there is really no way to objectively test any supernatural posit. How do we draw valid conclusions from something like that?

I mean if we had 5 options and the supernatural was one of them, we would make a mistake in trying to investigate the supernatural first. There would be so much controversy because of its subjective nature and we may never make it to investigating the other 4 options.

If however we start with theories that can be verified/falsified we make progress. By the time we exhaust all rational options, whatever remains must be the truth. But we must know that we KNOW what we know. Thus in my opinion, considering the supernatural is a waste of time considering its nature. I could pull a simple trick, claim its supernatural and most wouldnt know.

Take tv magicians for example, Blaine, Dynamo, Angel etc some people actually believe that these people are using dark arts. It doesnt matter how many times you explain that some of it is clearly effects with stooges in the crowd and clever props, these people will ignore you. Even if David Blaine says its an illusion and not magic, these people will still tell you its a trick of the devil and the devils greatest trick was making folks believe he did not exist. See what I mean?

Again, once you say something is supernatural, you have pushed it beyond rational inquiry (reasons stated above). That kills knowledge. We would still be binding the hell out of malaria demons rather than take quinine if someone didnt think differently.

The better path would be to put the supernatural to one side first and examine the more rational options.

InesQor: P.S. Jayriginal, when you say there's nothing "supernatural" about anything, I wonder, are those not the same things you said science cannot currently explain? Man's reach exceeds his grasp, so whatever we currently cannot account for might be termed "beyond natural" without loss of generality. Though personally I refrain from using the word "supernatural" in theological discussions because people mentally associate it with "spiritual" and that's not always the case.

Well I didnt exactly say science cannot explain (although its not everything science can explain currently), I said "that there are things that I may witness that I may not have an explanation for but that doesnt mean I or anyone else should conclude that its supernatural."

Then I gave the example of congenital analgesia which is known to science but I as an individual may never have heard of it, and even though I couldnt explain it, it would still be better to go with the rational assumption that he is a trained fighter (which turned out to be wrong) than to go with the mystical explanation that he is using dark arts (wrong as well). I then explained how the supernatural conclusion tends to hinder the realization of truth as opposed to the natural conclusion.

I dont think I agree with "beyond natural" for things that we dont understand (if I understand you correctly). Is it beyond natural always or beyond natural until we find a way that it works (at which time it becomes natural)?

Hi InesQor

How body?

I looked up Qi Gong on google and I saw that its quite controversial. There seems to be a raging debate over its authenticity. Strongly smells like a scam.

Now, from my own personal perspective (some others, notably Plaetton have shared similar thoughts), there really isnt anything supernatural or spiritual about anything.

I will admit that there are things that I may witness that I may not have an explanation for but that doesnt mean I or anyone else should conclude that its supernatural. Other more prosaic factors may be involved. One must be sure to have excluded every possibility that can be verified before even thinking of the supernatural.

According to Plaetton and I agree to an extent, some inexplicable thing might be due to "higher physics" as yet unknown by the vast majority of the populace.

To give a simple example, most of us feel pain however some are born with congenital analgesia and feel no pain. Well suppose I got into a fight with one such person who refused to hit me but rather kept advancing after 5 kicks, 2 blows and some slaps? If I was superstitious, I would imagine the person was using jazz and I would show a clean pair of heels.

Not being superstitious, my mind will tell me at that point that the guy is probably a trained fighter and is going to rip me in pieces in not distant future. Again I employ my feet and put distance between us.

In both cases, I came to the wrong conclusion on the spot. The guy is neither a trained fighter nor is he using any dark arts, he simply doesnt feel pain.

I might go home and reflect on how lucky I have been to leave the scene in one piece, I might contemplate on how to appease him with some bottles of beer, or I might after the adrenaline rush, sit back and consider what happened. If my mind is fixated on the supernatural, I wont be able to get past that. Anything I find out will only reinforce my original conviction. He's not a trained fighter; he must be using jazz. He doesnt feel pain; it must be jazz etc

On the other hand, if I started with the wrong but rational assumption that he is a trained fighter, I wont be blinded to the truth when I find it.

Weah96: Doesn't fit his style of ambiguity. He prefers to do things that have perfectly reasonable explanations. For example, during Katrina, the evangelicals said that New Orleans was paying for their sins. But one of the few places that remained undamaged was the ashawo district.

Touche.

doubleDx: Amos 3:6-7 (KJV)

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it? Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Proverbs 16:4(KJV)

The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.


^^^

The spiritual controls the physical...the hackers were influenced to do what was done for a reason! The site owner was also influenced to be reluctant about backing up for over 5 months for a reason! The LORD declares the end from the beginning and his counsel shall stand; It's not meant for a carnal mind to understand...so, I don't expect you to understand anything from this The hacker was the LORD's weapon of indignation

Would have been much easier for the Lord to create a splash screen all over nairaland declaring his indignation.

doubleDx: LOL We're created in the image of God.... But don't compare man with the Almighty....he/she/it judges in righteousness; man doesn't

But righteousness is a human construct.

Many men are more righteous than your deity.

Na Laugh: This Iranian president, na studio apartment e dey rent?

I guess you prefer your govt officials building and renovating mansions at astronomical costs.

Leadership is meant for service, not for a chance to live in affluence.

[quote author=do-not-sin]Blind atheists whom atheism has blinded.A persons belief in God requires him to do everything according to the dictates of God in His holy book.[/quote]Shall we test this?

Yes God requires you to visit the doctor when you are sick

Oh really?


James 5:14-16

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

I see nothing about hospitals or physicians.

visit the mechanic when your car breaks down etc.Its in the book.

Now, now, you have been already exposed why continue? Where is the mechanic in the bible? What were they fixing? Chariots?

You can also stylishly ignore the countless times God instucted His human subjects to use human methods & agencies to accomplish His divine purpose when He could have easily done it by instant miracle.Examples are countless times he instucted Israelites on specific things to do to win a battle when He could have easily come down & won the battle for them.He instucted Jeremiah through Isaiah on the herb to take & recover when he could just make the ailment disappear with a wish.

Atheists don't deserve answers cos they don't want one & I certainly won't give you more than this so go ahead & throw your stones.

Well the wishes of God usually coincide with the wishes of humans. Is that really a coincidence?

"Sister, God revealed to me in a dream that you are my wife to be". Sound familiar?

DikSin

If you ever want something in life, strive to get it. Try not to hurt others in getting it.

When you get it, feel free to thank whatever deity you subscribe to. If you dont get it, try again (maybe) or move on.

Either way you will be more successful and less frustrated if you take your destiny in your hands and take responsibilities for your actions. It wont matter which deity you believe in, you will be contented.

Cheers.

Make una free mstik abeg.

He doesnt deserve the attack. Go pick on someone your own sizes.

This has said what Ive been saying for a very long time.

Most people who say they believe, dont!

In my opinion programming advice should take consideration of the fact that some people are hobbyists while some want to go professional. What is the point in telling a would-be hobbyist to learn assembly language (for example)?

Some advice are just too impractical jare.

Nothing wrong in giving good pointers as long as you know who it is you are advicing. Some hobbyists will definitely go pro with time but not if you kill their interest with unrealistic to-do tasks.


By the way does anyone use komodo here?

Afam4eva: It hinders individualistic and selfish dreams. When you agree to marry, your life no longer belongs to you. You share it with your partner and any decision you make has to be an agreement between you and your partner. That's why if you want to continue the dream you've been nursing before marriage, make sure you marry someone that will accept both you and your dreams.

Spot on, except for your first sentence (which needs revision).

[quote author=Mynd_44]No derailing[/quote]Shhh

Youre not the mod here.

HBG/Aji and Obadiah are

aManFromMars: . . . Anony's last thread is now gone. Lol. Wonder what he makes of that.

EDIT:
IM back to being IGbo, gamer, atheist. shiit...

Anony asked for Seun to shut down the website right?

Well Seun works in mysterious ways.

Uyi Iredia: Follow my lead. I have assumed an atheist stance for over 3 months now. That said, ANY position has discrepancies, even atheism, if an atheist can't see discrepancies in the position, it's safe to say he's close-minded.

Thats not true unless you take atheism to be more than what it is.

Whats your take on atheism?

and it came to pass that . . .

and it came to pass that . . .

HolyHolla: Yeah, you're still a faithful like me. Thank God you didn't join the band of real faithfools. Now, where's that @jayriginal, who probably is an atheist in line wth biblical descriptions ... and where's my big gun?

Youre probably a faithfool

HolyHolla: The Bible states 3 simple steps to becoming an atheist and a 4th step to continue as an atheist.

The 1st, start thinking in your heart that there's no God. 2nd, start believing in your heart that there is no God. 3rd, start confessing it with your mouth that there is no God. 4th step, start living your life like there is no God.

Caveat Emptor: Be warned; the first 3 steps are described in the Bible as actions of a fool; the last as leading to eternal destruction.

Do I wish you good luck?

Dont need to be wished good luck from a faithfool

tribeofdavid: Now, what happened during the time when I was
unconscious? The first thing I observed was that I left my
human body, as I saw my body on the bed. It as if I just rose
away from it. I was going up until I fell into a pit. A man
dressed in black came as if coming to help me out of the pit,
as he stretched his hand to me, but I refused. Later, a man
dressed in white came and I allowed him to lift me out of the
pit. When he brought me up, it was as if I was falling down
again and I later found myself on my hospital bed and I
regained my consciousness.

Im pretty sure if you ask the boy, he will say the "man in black" was a black man and the "man in white" was a white man.

Why do we degrade ourselves so much?

Jesus wanted man to sit down and think for a while how they
came into this world and that there are times he regrets
creating man, because of his evil works.

This "Jesus" that "created' man is all knowing isnt he? How then can he be having regrets when he ought to have known the outcome right from the beginning?

Oya mods, front page. Only silly threads like this get to the front.

[quote author=♥Dεs•Chγκσ♥]One doesn't learn with a filled mind. Asking questions when you already have at least an answer is a bad bad way to learn.[/quote]As opposed to learning with a blank mind and accepting everything your teacher tells you without questioning. You know whats eerily similar to that?

Brainwashing!

[quote author=♥Dεs•Chγκσ♥]Easy.. Just follow these four sure-bet steps:

1. Don't go to church on Sundays, effectively ending your participation in Christianity awhile.

2. Tell yourself in secret that your reason for not going/continuing is atheism.

3. Do this every week till you get tired of the stupidity.

4. Resume Church actively. [/quote]Because going to church is what really makes you a christian right?

runzlord: Only celebrities are verified

Not true.

@ OP, google is your friend.

Six easy steps to getting a verified Twitter account

If you think you fit the bill, here is how to go about getting your Twitter account verified.
Step 1: Determine if you qualify for a verified Twitter account.

Twitter verifies as few accounts as possible and only for legitimate reasons. Reasons for asking Twitter include being a highly recognisable rugby player, rugby club, brand or rugby agent, etc., or if your name and likeness is parodied or impersonated on multiple fake Twitter accounts, leading to identity confusion.
Step 2: Embed a Twitter “Follow” button on your website

Twitter recommends embedding a Twitter “Follow” button on your official website as the best alternative to verification. This allows you to obtain followers directly from your official site, which is very helpful if there are multiple Twitter accounts that use your name.
Step 3: Read the Twitter verified account terms

These terms explain what a verified account is, what it means to be verified, who has the verified badge and identifying a verified account. They can be found here.
Step 4: Find out how to apply for a verified account

Send a direct message to this address.

Be sure to have the following information ready:

Account name
Full name
Location
Official website (you will be given a suggestion to put the Twitter logo or badge on your official website to speed up verification)
Bio information (your 160 character profile summary)
Primary contact name (you or the individual who manages the account)
Additional contact information

Step 5: Wait for Twitter to respond

If you don’t get a reply shortly, you can contact Twitter by mail or through Twitter. Keep in mind that Twitter deals with a high volume of verification requests, and that it focuses first on the most “highly sought users.
Step 6: Follow Twitter’s instructions for verifying your account

If Twitter decides that you qualify for a verified account, they will reach out to you via direct message. Click the link in the direct message to be taken to finish the process.

Learn how to Tweet effectively - You’ll be asked to choose best tweet out of two tweets. There will be no negative impact if you don’t answer correctly.
Connect with other Interesting Twitter Users - Connect with other verified accounts. It helps in making your account more legitimate.
Protect your Account - You’ll be asked to add a phone number through which Twitter can contact you if they find any problem with your account.

Once you have completed all the above steps, your Twitter account will be verified

http://muddyrhino.com/how-to-get-a-verified-twitter-account/

Story story, story!

Gombs: You said u didn't say he doesn't exist
You are again saying you didn't say he existed...



What should I have deduced from the above? Are you agnostic?...ok, what is your position about God's existence?

I dont believe God exists. Can you see how this is different from saying that God does not exist?

Gombs: What is your proof that he doesn't exist?.....do have question 4 in mind when answering me

Have I said God doesnt exist?

Think man, think!

OLAADEGBU: Someone Said: "Atheists are free-thinkers"

Response:

Anyone who believes that nothing created everything isn't a free-thinker. He is free from thinking. The Bible calls him a "fool" (see Psalm 14:1).

--> http:///Evolution-Vs-God-YouTube

Says the "faithfool".

Gombs: ^^^

Suddenly, atheists are now saying their position is not that God doesn't exist

Ok, He does, why then don't you acknowledge him?

Are you for real?

Did I say that god exists?

Read again and understand.

Gombs: 1.ummmmm...do you choose evolution or big bang theory?

They are not competing theories.

2. Is your trust in science based on faith or based on science?

The scientific method is preferable to any faith based method.

3. Where does language, art, music, and religion come from?

From humans.

4. Is absence of proof the proof of absence?

No.

5. What does the atheist position offer people? How has it improved your life? Why will it improve others’ lives?

It does not "offer" anything. You take responsibility for your actions rather than blaming or begging some entity that for all intents and purposes doesnt exist.

6. When you attempt to use logic to conclude facts about religion, are you starting at the conclusion (God is not real), or are you starting at true premises? Be honest. If you are starting at true premises, then what are they? And how are they true? Think about #4 when you answer.

If one is to use logic, one wont start at the conclusion. I hope this answers you.

7. If all Christians believed that the Bible was entirely allegorical, what would you argue in support of your position that there is no God?

Who said that my position is that there is no god?

8. [If it even is] Why is it important to you that everyone should be/become an atheist?

Its not important to me.

[quote author=rapture_ready]I last had that argument with @rationalmind[/quote]How many did you name then? You made a claim and Im asking you to back it up.

[quote author=rapture_ready]@op Technically speaking, atheists are not free thinkers. They are two distinct schools.

Atheists believe God doesn't exist, and claim that as if they are sure.[/quote]Kindly name 5 on nairaland.