Your "lord" is having a great fun time at the expense of the lives of innocent people, isn't it? Must be like a video game to his sick soul.

buzugee: FIRST A PLANE CRASH
THEN A BOMB ( AMONGST SEVERAL BOMBINGS )
THEN ANOTHER PLANE CRASH
THEN A TANKER CRASH ON LAGOS-IBADAN EXPRESSWAY

THE INTENSITY IS RATCHETING UP AND IF YOU DONT STEP YOUR GAME UP, YOU GET SLICED UP. LOOK TO ME LIKE YAHAWAH AINT PLAYING WITH FOLKS NO MO. YAHAWAH IS STREAM-LINING THE FLOCK. DEAD WEIGHT IS BEING GOT RID OFF. FOLKS TIME TO LOOK CLOSER AT ECCLESIASTES 12 VS 13

That only means the church(catholic) has other more effective means of making it's money. That is the reason for it's financial stability.

Ubenedictus: this is not very true. The catholic church isnt big on tithe yet people think she is financially stable.

That would cause a financial crash, meltdown, collapse, armaggedon and apocalypse of the ecclesiastical economy.

Optimisticgondy: If we are to agree the verse is from the old testament and shouldn't be taken serious, then emphasis should not be laid on tithes payment cos it's found in the old testament

Buddhism is a "No God" religion, not atheism.

They heard a voice. At least, that was the story of RCCG's Adeboye who had the mysterious voice of God in the widerness to start a church to herd the sheep in and run their lives for god.

Those unfortunate killings were done in a vain attempt to hide - from world history - the fact that their much vaunted religion is a child of paganism. But it was all to no avail. That is why they are so fearful of pagan religions. They remind them that their religion, Christianity, is a child of paganism. That, is what they don't like. They hate it, as a matter of fact.

PAGAN 9JA:


christians have not been Pagan. they killed millions of Pagan in the past. the reason why you think roman catholics are Pagan is because in their initial stages, these sly foxes, in order to entice the poor Gentiles into converting, tried to incorporate and syncretize some elements of Paganism, such as christmas (the Birthday of the Sun God signifying the end of the Winter Solistice), easter, Idolatry, etc. .

and I have already succeeded in reverting (not converting), many Africans back to the religion of their respective Tribes. we Pagans do not proselytise like the greedy xtians.

How on earth do you expect anybody to know that? not even scholars dedicated to answering such question have any answers to it.

PAGAN 9JA:
Which Tribe/Ethnic group in your opinion, first started the concept of a divine force or Gods

Nice thoughts, pagan 9ja, but you are way too late. Christians have always been pagans. Everything about their religion originated from paganism. Christians are just masqueraded foreign pagans. Just try and convert them into African ones, if you can.

PAGAN 9JA:
[size=32pt]I PAGAN 9JA HAVE DECIDED TO CONVERT CHRISTIANITY, BY CONVERTING ALL CHRISTIANS BACK TO PAGANISM[/size]!

There is no ressurection. But there is reincarnation. Reincarnation makes far more sense than ressurection because the spirit can reincarnate through vast time periods and in vast numbers of different physical vessels as many times as possible, while ressurection can only happen within short periods of time and in the same vessel and probably once. Not very interesting.

God will prove to you today that he has become very affordable. Special sommer tithing rate offer of 5% instead of the old 10%. How about it? APPLY NOW!!!!

Logic Mind: How much is your tithe rate?

Hidden? And here i am thinking that pastors robbing the sheep is a truth that is so out in the open.

Why should anybody be "afraid" of God, Jesus and the holy spirit? Are they demonic?

Lying is part of everyday life. Sometimes one has to lie to get certain things done or to cover certain things. It is a fact of life we need to get used to.

So, in other words, you are a christian coward who shies away from questioning his doctrine because of backsliding. Okay, i understand. The NEXT Christian, please!!

sample042: @Op, wat u have 2 knw is dt xtains 'LIVE BY FAITH'. Ur questn is very intuitive and needs to be properly scrutinized bt believe me EVERY RELIGION IS FULL OF MYSTERIES. As a boy dt waz groomed frm a well xtain family i wil tel u dt diz post if followd as u wish wil lead to backslide,compromise or blasphemy against our xtain blv. Read my words... We'r xtains by faith, to avoid complexities n contradictions dis thread is misleadn to xtainhood!!!

I do? Make it clear to me, then? And before you start your clarification, please kindly tell me to which religion God belongs... with evidence that is non-biblical.

Uyi Iredia:

If you think you can reject religion without rejecting God then you lack understanding of religion.

If rejecting religion is the same as rejecting "god", then it is the best decision anybody will ever make. But i know that God isn't religion, so God cannot be rejected. Religion, on the other hand, can be rejected and rightly so too.

And why is this here, frosbel. Why don't you go post this in the islamic forum? If you are looking for trouble, then go to the right place to provoke it, will you!

No, it doesn't.

Hey. Not so fast, bro. Who told you that whatever caused the universe into existence has to be uncaused or even immaterial? On what principle is this based? For all we know, we could be in an eternal loop of the caused causes. Billions upon billions of universes being caused into existence by billions upon billions of causes that are also caused into existence themselves.

Mr_Anony:

Now whatever caused the universe to come into existence must in itself be uncaused, timeless, spaceless, and immaterial. This means that it is either this cause is an abstract concept such as shape, colors and numbers or it is a personal (by personal, I don't mean human) mind.

So, back to the original question; in what format are humans going to burn in hell? In physical format or in spirit format? Hell believers/experts, over to you. And please, back your views with convincing argument.

How about converting his own mistakes first?

If that is the bible's definition of love, then it is safe to say that the Christian God does not qualify as capable of love, because none of the descriptions of love in that quote fit that deity. Are we in agreement on this?

Mr_Anony:
If you are trying to define love here is the bible's description of love according to 1corinthians 13 which I agree with.

Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out.Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

Whatever does not fit this description is not love.

Wrong, dude. Religions present questions that are never answered.

Whether you want to worship the creator or not should be your own personal choice. Build yourself a shrine and worship away.

tohirah:

I think the creator should be worshipped and not his subject. So this gives the need to know who actually is the creator

I don't think that i am missing your point at all. as a matter of fact, you are confusing your point because you are just twisting all over the place.

- Good, then we agree that one does not need to believe in a deity to have a conscience.

- In my view, you don't need to tie the conscience to any deity for it to do it's work in man. It is fine on it's own.

- No. I disagree. The man made societal norms are the laws, not deities. The society then enforces, judges amd sentences whoever goes against the norm of the society, not some deity. And if you look closely at the modern day societies, that is exactly how it is.

-Denying a deity is not denying the enforcer because the enforcer is not the deity. If that were so, all atheists should be incarcerated because denying a deity will be equivalent to breaking the law, which is nothing but fantasy, especially in the democratic nations.

- Just because someone does not believe in a deity does not mean they will become a sociopath. This is a fantasy that cannot be proven anywhere on the planet. On the contrary, it is the atheist countries that are more restraint in their actions than the religious ones. If your theory is true, why is a religious nation like Nigeria is so full of chaos and corruption? Where is their conscience? What is it doing while Nigerians rob their own nation blind. Where are the morals of Nigerians? Is it because the enforcer deity has gone to sleep or is he just simply saying, scr.ew it, i ain't enforcing anything. Let them rob themselves blind?

- I asked a question earlier about religious terrorists which you conveniently omitted. Do killing innocent people and themselves show that they have morals? Does any act of terrorism show morals?

Mr_Anony:

You are missing my point entirely, besides we seem to have gone slightly off on a tangent. Whether you believe in a diety or not, you still have a conscience
This is what I am saying If conscience were the law, then the diety would be the lawmaker/judiciary/police that enforces this law. When an atheist denies deity, he still has a conscience (the laws) but as he has denied the enforcer, he has declared himself to be under no obligation to do what is right. According to an atheist, there is no god i.e. I can do whatever I want, no one will punish me or reward me. This is why I say that atheists have no morals.

Moving on from here; Without an enforcer, the law is useless. the fact that we have a conscience is avery strong indication for the existence of diety. Once an atheist denies deity he has essentially denied conscience and morality.

So I ask what is the reason for atheism? why should I deny God/gods? What makes atheism valid? Can any atheist prove to me 100% that God does not/can not possibly exist?

Why the necessity to know the builder, anyway? You've seen the building, you acknowledge and admire the architectorial feats and knowhow of the builder, you move on. Why would i want to know the builder? I am not in the least interested in knowing.

And why are you so interested in others knowing the ID of the builder? Is there something in it for you.... like money?

OLAADEGBU:

You can know who the builder/manufacturer is if you really want to know, all it takes is for you to contact the appropriate record books but then you need faith to believe the records. Likewise, the uncreated Creator has left His signature in the record book called the Holy Bible, it will again take faith for you to believe His words.

So, what you trying to say is that, believing in a deity gives you conscience but it does not oblige you to adhere to it, right? Well, if you have this choice, what is the point of this deity you worship, then? What is the point of having a conscience, as a matter of fact?

Mr_Anony, you did not think the topic of this thread through before posting, did you? Because your argument has already fallen apart at it's seams.

Mr_Anony:

everyone has a conscience, however you can decide to do good and adhere to your conscience or to do wrong and ignore your conscience. Your conscience is still there all the same. Your conscience does not force your actions

1) This analogy is false. Christians are not only seeing a building as the evidence of a builder (in general terms) but also WHO ACTUALLY IS THE BUILDER (in specific terms). Where, then, is the proof that you know the specific identity of the builder? This is where your argument fails woefully.

Example; I can also tell you that a brandless CAR was built by it's creator(s)after having seen it, but i can't start claiming that the nameless car proves the existence of MERCEDES or BMW or TOYOTA or MAZDA, which is what you christians like to do.

Your trickery is that , to prove the existence of God to atheist, you flipflop between referring to God in general terms (GOD the creator) and in the specific terms (christian god;The Jewish god) and getting caught in the process by the atheists.

I can agree that the creation proves the existence of a creator. This follows logic. But you cannot prove that the creator in question is the one you worship. The one in the scriptures of your religion. That, you can't prove with that building analogy of yours.

OLAADEGBU:

You say you have a mind for examining beliefs, lets see how your mind works, whether it works logically or not.

"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20).

What is the evidence of the existence of God?

When I look at a building, how do I know that there was a builder? I couldn't want a better evidence that there was a builder than to have the building in front of me. I don't even need faith to know that there was a builder. All I need are eyes that can see and a brain that can think.

The same principle applies to the existence of God. When I look at creation, how can I know that there was a Creator? Creation reveals to me that there is a Creator. I couldn't want a better evidence that there is a Creator than to have the creation in front of me. I don't need faith to believe in a Creator, all I need are eyes that can see and a brain that can think.

But if I want the builder to do something for me, then I need to have faith in the builder. Likewise, if you want to come to God you must believe that He exists and is the lawgiver that you are accountable to.

"Without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6)- The Evidence Bible.

Faith in God is not blind faith, it is based on the fact of God's existence seen clearly through creation.

After that, explain why conscience does not prevent church pastors from stealing their congregations tithings to enrich themselves and their minions.

Good. Please then, explain why it is that their conscience does not prevent them from killing innocent people and themselves?

Mr_Anony:

Yes they do

Stop wriggling, dude. This is just beyond ridiculous now. Christianity is every bit a RELIGION. The life of Jesus is NOT reflected in the religion called Christianity in any way, shape or form.

Christianity is a religion which uses a central figure of worship called, Jesus, to control the souls of the masses. Just like any other religion would do.

oiseworld: what is a religion? I think thats the first thing we should be asking here. When classifing beliefs then, christianity is a religion.
But what is christianity on its own? A belief in the teaching of jesus christ.
Who is Jesus christ? The son of God, the second in the trinity, the outspoken word of God. God in human form. God on earth.

When you take a look at the life of christ you'll get what christianity is. I know it is the way.

Infact words can not say !!!

A question for Mr_Anony

Do religious terrorists have conscience or not?

No. Science shouldn't be the only legitimate guide because it is and still remains not the only means but one of many guiding forces. The second reason is that it is just as corruptible as the other means like religion and can mislead just like religion. All available doors should and must be opened to man to explore through.