The bible god gave us the devil, though. Didn't he?

I'd call her Don G.

Olaadegbu, tell me a better way of creating robots than giving them just 2 choices; LOVE GOD OR BURN. You call that having freedom of choice? You call that giving freewill? Your idea of choices are totally skewed, my friend.

OLAADEGBU:

I know you will not like your wify or children to be robots that just do what you command without any mind of their own. You will be more satisfied if your wify or children love and obey you respectively. If your wify and children who have the potential to hate or disobey you as a husband and father choose to love and honour and respect you don't you think that will be a better proposition than to say that they had no choice other than to do as you wish?

God created angels and humans with the potential to either obey or disobey Him. He created them to be free to worship Him as they choose even though God knew that they would disobey Him as they had the potential to sin. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the Garden, the Bible tells us that in Adam the whole Adamic race sinned and fell together with him. The amazing thing is that God in His wisdom now uses our sin to show how loving, just and merciful He is to us.

It is because of our sin that God stepped out of eternity and stepped into history to be a man born of a virgin to die on the cross for you and me. He then rose from the dead to save us from the penalty of sin.

Do you now see how much God loves us by pardoning our sins and giving us a way to be reconciled back to Him because Jesus Christ took the punishment of our sin? Therefore, we are to be blamed for sin and not God. But because of of our sin, the Almighty God is seeking to save us and show us the most amazing love He has for us just as a husband would love his loyal wife or obedient children who choose to do so out of their own free will.

Story. How could Lucifer have had a change of heart that made him to turn against "god" in a place like heaven where everything is supposed to be perfect and functioning to the will of "god"? Have you even thought of that before you started writing your fairy tale by moonlight?

octavian: God created Lucifer (devil) to be an angel just to Worship him and lead the choir of Heaven.. Lucifer had a change of heart and became proud of his position, thinking God never allowed Angels to have their freewill but were compelled to worship only him(God). Pride set in because he (Lucifer) was the morning star, God knew all his plans but gave him time to repent, which he did not before he fell.

Adam and Eve were created in the image and likeness of God, they were never to eat the fruit from the Tree of Life but Satan who was wiser than them knew if he could deceive them into believing they will not DIE then Gods' creation and plan would be defeated. So God never made a mistake in creation any of them, he gave them the FREEWILL of choice, either good or evil..

I don't see creation as an act of interference, emofine.

emöfine2:

Well if "God" supposedly created us...isn’t that interfering already?

Is religion life then? Is subjecting yourself to dogmatic indoctrination choosing life? I don't think so, olaadegbu. Religion is DEATH.

OLAADEGBU:

God created everything perfect (Genesis 1:31). The fact that He knows everything does not stop the free will of satan or man. God knows the end from the beginning and that does not stop us from taking responsibility for the choices we make. If He created us as robots then we can blame Him if we go wrong. Since we are not robots but free moral agents we are all accountable to God our Creator at the end of the day to give an account of how we have used our freedom. Have we chosen life or death? Our decision determines our destiny.

An objective God would stay away from influencing any event in the universe and just let things take their course. The God that we have being having shoved down our throat, on the other hand, is anything but that.

emöfine2: There are truths which are objective.

Objective truths are impersonal thus invariable and impartial.

Many believers claim that "God" is a universal truth, thus supposedly an objective truth.

If there is a universal God...could this agent...or supposed objective truth act in an objective way?

Would an "objective truth" proceed subjectively?

In public forums like this one, only the mods have the right to delete the posts of any member and not the regular members themselves. You can delete your own posts, but not those of others.

handsomeness: It's quite annoying to open up a nice topic only to have someone comment rudely on it.
Atheist in the 'religion section' are fond of this demeaning act- always derailing beautiful posts on here with their insultive comments and forcing their 'believe on people'.
Oga Seun, you seriously need to implement a Delete Comment Button" on Nairaland.
I know am not the only one who will like to see a ''DELETE Comment button'' on Nairaland.
It can be of help especially if it's implemented- it will reduce the level of spam adverts on Nairaland, spammers do paste their adverts on hot Trending posts because they believe who they're against are just the moderators- if i open a topic and it goes all the way to frontpage, i will surely DELETE any irritating comments and spam adverts i see on my post. It will go a long way in reducing spammers activities.
just my 7cents...
I hope i spoke some people's mind on here. What do you Think Nairalanders?

Why can't "he" not be held responsible when he's supposed to know everything in advance? Did God (according to the bible) brought the devil up well, in your view? What is the universe, anyway? A video game or something?

OLAADEGBU:

The point I was making is that God cannot be held responsible for the choices we make since He has created us as free moral agents. You will not be held accountable for the crimes of your adult children as long as you brought them up well.

It is better to play kalo kalo or spend a night at the casino losing money. At least they would enjoy themselves while throwing their money away.

phxc: Another thread that will go down the drain of oblivion---

You see, what the proponents of 'donate to the needy and not to pastors' fail to realize is that most Nigerians are self-centered and they've been suckered into believing that by giving to the pastors, they would receive a hundred fold in return. They don't give because they love the pastor or they hate the needy, they give because of the 'blessings' attached to the act itself. In most churches, if you give to the needy, you're just being charitable, no blessings attached.

They are searching their crystal balls to look for more of such disasters happening in the future so that they can "prophetize" them to their gullible audience in order to enhance their status as true men of dog god with "divine talents".

wandeay: 5 days after d Dana plane crash, what has Nigerian big pastors done? Like condolence message, charity donation, visiting the site, etc, and this people that died belongs to one religious group or the other. What do you think about this?

God - at least the bible version - is way overrated. He is nowhere near as omniscient or omnipotent as most people think. Remember the was "he" was looking for Adam and Eve in the book of genesis? Well, so much for his omniscience.

Perhaps your close friends and neighbours meant the "christian/islamic god" when they said that god does not exist. Question; if God does exist, does he like to be known or he only just want to stay in the background and watch how the creation evolves?

Bleble-swag:
Close friends n neighbour often make such statement dat 'God does not exist?' Are u among dose who make such statement? One very gud point i will tell every1 is 'if God does not exist, den human ceased not 2 exist as well.'

Human parents are neither omnipotent nor omniscient like the bible god, olaadegbu. Bad analogy.

OLAADEGBU:

Your question is appropriate but you have only been thinking in a particular perspective. If you are a parent or rather since you are a child to your parents do you think your parents will be blamed if they have brought you up the best way they can but you decided to turn to crime in adulthood?

What 'am trying to say is that God made us in His own image and gave us the freedom to choose good or bad, life or death and our decisions will determine where we would spend our eternity, either in heaven or hell.

This does not remove from God's omniscience, the fact that He knows all things does not force us into making a choice, He has given us freedom and freedom comes with responsibility. Anyone who decides to use their freewill to disobey God will have to live with the consequences that is the price of freedom.

Adam and satan had a choice to either obey or disobey God but unfortunately they made the wrong choice and suffered the consequence which we are still suffering today, but thanks be to God througth the last Adam who paid the price for our sins and then gave us the grace to choose not to sin which is by faith in His precious blood that was shed on the Cross we receive His mercy, pardon and forgiveness.

At least, as a human being under the grip of religion, you are starting to ask the right questions. Keep it up, bro.

haibe: Am a christian and still one but something borders me, God is omniscient and knows the end from the beginning, he knew satan and adam and eve will sin S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ why did he create them since he knows the reward of sin is death and according to Jesus only few will be saved(mattew 7:14), There are now millions of people who are
burning, in agony, faces creased in
incessant pain, torment beyond
imagination, limbs torn, emotions stretched
like rubber that can never break and in a
world of pain for ETERNITY.
For them my heart grieves so strongly that
it brings tears to my eyes……But God knew
this would happen. I find it very difficult
to separate the God that we are supposed
to follow by “faith” and one that would
‘create’ knowing that there would be so
much carnage for so few survivors.
Why did God d̶̲̅σ this?

Did anyone see the 3rd goal against Brazil? That was a divine goal only a GOD can score. MESSI is the only one true GOD.

May i help you out of your delusion?

YOU SHALL NOT BE KINGS AND PRIESTS IN HEAVEN, and neither shall you have subjects. YOU, will be the subjects. You shall, on the other hand, worship, sing and praise you bums off, day and night, without food and water, 24/7, 'cos your god is an insatiable and greedy god. Greedy for worship and praise.

milkymesh: Just wondering.
When we finally get to heaven and have received our appointment as kings and priest who will then be our subject. Whom shall be rule or preside over.
Every king has subjects, kingdom.

Not necessarily, manmustchop. This section would be enough for the rest of us.

manmustwac: Creating a Christian section for the Christians will automatically mean that you will have to create a section for the atheists agnostics etc otherwise we'd be frozen out of nairaland. Like Miaay B said in an earlier post what we need is strict moderating.

How would they follow God when religion is so much in their faces? Or are you saying they should ditch religion in order to follow God?

brownusagirl: That is in america as well. People should look to follow God not man. Man is not perfect and can lead you astray.

No, WE are not. THEY ARE DOOMED. What one chooses to let into their souls to shape their minds will either save them or doom them. Jesus said that himself in the bible and one of the non-canonical gospels(the gospel of Thomas, i think).

ZUBY77: I may be wrong in generalizing but the higher percentage of Nigerians worship their pastors, self ordained bishops and prophets. Each time i drive past a Christ embassy church, i see a giant picture of Chris Oyakhilome mounted in the Church sign post. I thought this was supposed to be if he has a crusade or something. Why would i go to a church where the pastors image replaced that of Jesus Christ? We are really doomed here.

Hahaha! That was the first thing that came to my mind when i read the title of this thread. Jesus go dig graves sotey im back go break and im go run back to heaven!

Some of these christians are so brainless, they don't even understand what they believe in, talkless of what they come to post in here.

ZUBY77: What will he be coming to do if there will be no mankind left after the war?
I guess to dig graves and bury them.

I definitely second you on this. And MESSI is the God of the Football religion, so bow your heads and worship him.

Area_boy: The true religion is FOOTBALL. Enuff said

The rules are the same from country to country
win or loose, u still had a great day at the stadium (except finals lol)
you only get small scale fights with hooligans ( not all out war and try to wipe a whole race of people off the planet)
you can switch sides easily and not be judged.
you can question your managers action and not tagged blasphemous
Although you still spend money, but in this case you stand the chance of winning season tickets (other religions i think not)
if you loose, you're not condemned to burn in hell for eternity. but only condemned to your local pub for a few somber pints =(
Although there is a dictator (sepp blater) in this too, but we all agree he is a fcking bender and not perfect in anyway

So much more.....

The purpose here is to discuss and debate theological issues, not to preach. That is the purpose and it is being achieved.

Generica: My God, my God why all these things? Nairalanders, what's our motive in the religion section? Are we achieving the purpose? Are there religious groups or persons that shouldn't be allowed in this sensitive section? How are we to moderate our posts? How mild should our verbal weapons be, please?

One does not need any confirmation from Jesus to come to the realization that Yahweh was a bloodthirsty evil maniac gone berserk. Yahweh's word, the bible, was enough.

What i am trying to tell you is that, to separate yourself from the religionists you try so hard to distant yourself from, you will have to first of all begin to think outside the box. Religions keep your thinking processes in a tiny box, but what you do not know is that when you think that you have finally gotten out of religion and become an "atheist", you are still in the grips of religion because of the way you think, your thoughts and perspectives are still as narrow as ever. Nothing has changed.

Religion is still controlling your thought processes. To really set yourself free, you need to start thinking outside the box and not within it. Expand your horizon, bro. Broaden your perspective, your worldview. Then you would really be free of religious influence on yourself. That's a good advice for you for free.

logicboy:


Thanks for the ad hominem and no substance at all.

The Nigerian situation needs a whole lot more than prayers.

Logicboy, you should change your name to "tunnelvision boy". Your thought perspective is as narrow as any religious person's, if not narrower.

logicboy:


What are you? Some kind of Agnostic hippie bhuddist?


Evoltuion has nothing to do with creationism. Parts of evolution debunk Genesis in the bible and that is why christians put forward creationism as an alternative theory. Creationism is fake and not science.

Creation and evolution. One cannot be without the other. Two sides of the same coin. Very weak topic for debate.

Nothing to debate here. What is created, evolves. Two sides of the same coin.

Pagans don't worship idols, either. They worship the deities those idols represent... not too far away from what the christians also do. The images of Jesus on the crucifix isn't the real Jesus, as we all know, but is just the representation. Same thing. Forget not that paganism is the parent religion of christianity and even islam and judaism.

Pastor Kun:

What I mean is that christians don't worship those objects the way pagans worship their idols. It's one thing to make an image, it's another thing to worship it.

You don't have to believe in souls, mate. They are not religions. But they exist. If you believe in the existence of minds, then you have automatically accepted the existence of souls, whether you like it or not.

logicboy: I dont believe in souls. If you believe in souls, then better be ready to believe in Shang Tsung

Graven images of Jesus are a regular feature on most xtian churches altars, dude. That means they are focus of worship. Not to talk of the image of a naked, bearded white man as God in the minds of most christians put there by oyinbo man.

Pastor Kun:

Why don't you tell me an image that is worshipped in churches as I am not aware of any.