₦airaland Forum

nuclearboy:
Ma'am:

My announcements came before I ever heard of NairaLand.

thinking "hmmmmmm, well, there's space for more, isn't there? will do something about that"

There is space oh! Unless you already have a quiver full? Remember Ps 127

Sons are a heritage from the LORD,
       children a reward from him.

4 Like arrows in the hands of a warrior
       are sons born in one's youth.

5 Blessed is the man
       whose quiver is full of them.
       

And actually Jesoul, its you we should be expecting such news from. Yes! The book wey you read never reach you?  I'm sure there's someone muttering and stammering in anger whenever he looks at you that time is going and he's ready for the sowing

Lol  infact I'm being harassed on a regular basis by "in-laws" demanding grandchildren.

^^ All these wise people like Krayola self, making sense all over the place    . I am coming . . .

 And speaking of Wise, the Wizard Vesc. I am thoroughly pleased to be greeted by your input here.

vescucci:
After all this here thread is about Paul. He's one odd fellow this Paul. Grandiose. I'm not sure if he had good motives or not because it seems the case against him are as strong as those for him. I think either way, he has a holier-than-thou complex.

You know, I can certainly see why many would reach that conclusion. And in my many years of reading his letters, that association has not crossed my mind. Honest.

Oh, Noetic. I understand your frustrations more than you'd know but you shouldn't be calling Max names. That's very unchristian like. Besides it's counter productive cuz now you might never get a reply from her again. Coward? That's going too far! I don't wanna be like you when I grow up.

Lol. Noetic is passionate and sometimes he lets that make him come off as gruff and aggressive. I think behind that computer screen is really a nice guy.

JeSoul sweetie, na here you come hide? Sometimes I forget to simply check people's last posts to locate them. How you dey?

lol . . . you can almost always find me in the sports section. If I desert everywhere else, na there I go be. In either case, it's been a listening season, and was even very reluctant to post at all, had Krayola not specifically solicited my input. Infact I hope "debates" will be a thing of the past for me. But for you Vesc, I will ramble here

Max is somewhat like me in the sense that I know I'll live once and I can't take a chance and believe what's a lie. I detest lies. JeSoul is like me in another sense. I wanna feel warm inside all the time. Sometimes, I agonize over whether I'm doing the right thing. Often I get paralyzed into inaction cuz I dunno what I'm doing. I like to follow an invisible compass. My spiritual guts.
But there's an obvious point of divergence. There are instances where an empirical Max-like reasoning will do. There are others where only a Book-of-Eli JeSoul-like reasoning will do. One or the other. In my experience, most people will believe without question what is written if that thing aligns with the person's already formed ideas. Conversely, when there's a clash of views the person usually then seeks proof or dismisses that part altogether without even bothering.

The Wise Wizard does it again. It's all about balance I think. Perhaps somewhere between a "Max" and a "Jesoul" lies the absolute truth, and its up to each one of us to figure it out for ourselves - if that is even possible, and I don't think it is. A total grasp of The Truth is impossible in my mind, as long as we are still here on earth. And I dunno about a "warm inside feeling" lol, but I know about a peace that surpasses understanding, that has walked with me since I was yay high, and quiets my heart in the midst of a storm of "likely & probably" and "does not make sense". This is why I continue to believe - not because I was indoctrinated and letting go of a long held belief is hard etc etc.

In regard to your spiritual guts - I like and I wonder if you realize how biblical that is?

Rom 2:14 Some people naturally obey the Law's commands, even though they don't have the Law. This proves that the conscience is like a law written in the human heart. And it will show whether we are forgiven or condemned, when God appoints Jesus Christ to judge everyone's secret thoughts, just as my message says.

I think faith and proof should not be mutually exclusive. If I tell you I have faith in something, it is because I have demanded proof before and I am satisfied enough times and no longer require proof for other scenarios.

And the truth is they aren't!

And I'm glad you mentioned Book of Eli. Lets use that as a case study:

-Eli had an experience. A "voice" spoke to him and told him to just walk west
-He got up and walked, for 30 years, he just walked west
-When confronted by Solara on this blind journey he said "I just know, by faith"
-Solara "what is Faith?"
-Eli "it's something you know, though you don't know it"

Eli didn't have a blind faith - he had had an experience first which resulted in faith. If Eli had resorted to just "empirical reasoning" after he heard the voice he wouldn't have ever taken a step. And if Eli had never had an experience, he wouldn't have taken a step either. Which brings me back to this: Perhaps somewhere between a "Max" and a "Jesoul" lies the absolute truth. The only thing I will shove in anyone's direction - Go and Seek, and Ye shall find.

Enigma:
A lovely day it was (and lovely days will always be with us); I wasn't able to join issues in the latest debates as I have my hands full with Enigmalet who arrived yesterday. I will try and address some of the issues addressed to me at some point.

AYYY!!!! Wonderful! Congratulations my brother I pray God will bless that little life and may he be a source of joy and blessing to his parents and to the world around him. And may he be counted among the righteous on that great day. Amen!

Nuclearboy & Zikky, we are waiting for your own announcement soon.

^ oh no, A-40, don't tell me you also ordered some whites?

Romeo4real:
When humans attempt to use their understanding to comprehend and infinite phenomena, it usually results in confusion.

Lol, now ain't that the truth.

Krayola:
Hello my sista. 

Oga I'm trying to find your instrumental track oh . . .

Paul's silence on the life of Jesus is not necessarily problematic, it's just kinda odd IMO.  I agree his focus was on the risen Christ though, so maybe he didn't need to discuss his life.

Pretty much articulately sums up my position on the matter
 

Pretty much every time people talk about Jesus, they mention his teachings, his birth, and his death and resurrection. Paul writes about Jesus for decades and mentions nothing of his teachings and birth. NOTHING, except mentioning the last supper.   Again, I agree that isn't enough to completely discredit him cause there are some somewhat plausible explanations, like the ones u guys have put forward, but there are also good counter arguments like the ones others have put forward.

But, I hope u admit it is reason it be skeptical. . . people that doubt Paul's message have, IMO, good reason to do so.

Admit? absolutely.
Gosh I'm full of anecdotes today lol anyways . . .
  So the Campus Minister is narrating his experience of coming to Faith in Jesus. He recalled how the first time he read about the Ark of the Covenant and that poor dude that tried to steady it as it was about to fall. And God struck him down. When he first read that part, he got up from his couch and threw his bible away. What kind of God would kill someone who was just trying to help? And there it lay on the floor for weeks. Until he felt prompted to pick it back and keep reading.

My point. There are tons of scriptures I don't understand and will not pretend otherwise. Some are just . . . wow, God, really? and I leave scratching my head. I know there is more to it, more than just face value, more than our physical brains can compute at the moment and understanding evades me many a time. But I am 1000% okay with that. It matters little in the grand scheme. I already have everything I need to live right - to love God and to love my neighbor as myself. A temporal grasp (as if that were even possible) of the meaning of Numbers and Leviticus and Lamentations or Revelations - to me is icing on the cake. Like I mentioned, I scarcely take an "intellectual" approach to these matters.

So those who doubt in sincerity I first commend for investigating the matter. I only pray and hope that all who seek, may truly find. That afterall, is one of the promises of God . . . in the other less inflamatory part of the bible 

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=442151.msg6011907#msg6011907 date=1273177028]Ah, but some Christians do worship Paul, though they name Christ. There are others who worship Mary, though they pay Christ lip service as well.[/quote]Point noted and appreciated

As for indoctrination, I was indoctrinated. Almost every Christian, Moslem and other religious persons of my acquaintance came out of a background of religious indoctrination. That's the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition. To imply that most of the religious aren't indoctrinated in their beliefs is just laughable. The world itself, the daily news, tells you different. It is simply what it is. Calling me Scientist A or B or Z does not change that. I did not invent the fact of indoctrination.

Indoctrination can go for pretty much any belief held - be they religious or not - I don't dispute that.

What I dispute is that all religious belief - and particularly those sympathetic to Paul - are as a result of indoctrination. Or that it is somehow an indictment on the reasoning capacities of we who hold an affectionate estimation of the man. Hope that makes sense?

and oh, the Scientist B label was not meant to be a left hand, but to simply show your differing negative opinion on exhibit Z, in contrast to mine.

Faith does not require blind belief or belief without proof. Only a certain kind of faith requires that. And there are all sorts of proof, some of which can't be taken to a laboratory.  But salvation isn't dependent on all that. Christ knows what He did, and He did it flawlessly. He saves us all.

and hence you will note why I chose my words carefully and said

JeSoul:
In matters of Faith, proof is over-rated.

. . . not irrelevant.

Cheerios.

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=442151.msg6011693#msg6011693 date=1273174236]PROOF. PROOF. PROOF.[/quote]In matters of Faith, proof is over-rated. And understanding is an illusion if only the intellect is applied.

I don't think any christian worships Paul Max. Just our estimation and understanding of his message sharply differs from yours. You are scientist B. And honestly, that is perfectly fine as I do not seek by any means to convince you or anyone else otherwise. Let each man sincerely seek and may God see it fit to reward such a soul with a find. Perhaps your views will converge with others someday, perhaps not. As I remarked to Pastor AIO, this is one of those things we will never know, until the day all is known.

Cheers.

^^hehe I needed to make fun of something and only Bawo was here

but now that Chic is back 

so tell us, have you ordered your whitey's? Don't worry your secret is safe with us. I hear there's a 10% discount for diehard fans such as urself. So how do they fit? nice and snug and huggy? or a little loose around the waist, torso and ears? I know a few tailors that can help with that.

Oh btw . . . did somebody already post this? 

https://jerseychaser.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/chicago-bulls-gone-fishing.jpg

^Pastor sir   It's always good to have your input. As per ^ that induced a chuckle from me . . . who's to say what professor understands is not the understanding? but we probably won't know until all is known.

I find it quite interesting and a testament to how 2 people looking at a singular object, can arrive at vastly different opinions or analyses. Saw it just yesterday at the department meeting. After the presentation on the conference:

Scientist A: QbD philosophy could be the next "it" in experimental design, really provide a simpler, more efficient platform for small and large companies all across the board
Scientist B: I really don't see the point, what is the purpose or usefulness of this? this has so many pitfalls and could result in disaster for an investigational drug.

We all look at things through the lens of our experiences. The real tragedy will be for Scientist B to call Scientist A deluded, misguided, indoctrinated etc - simply because he cannot see what Scientist A sees.

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=442151.msg6010087#msg6010087 date=1273156800]Paul's status as a liar and a fake is based on proof, though.I could show you the guy's a LIAR and a sower of discord WITHOUT going outside the Bible. The surface hasn't even been scratched. We could let his own words and actions alone condemn him, and not refer to a single thing OUTSIDE the Bible.[/quote]Few years ago, in my junior year of college, I needed to take a distribution class in the arts to fulfill ancillary requirements for my major. I was running my finger through the list on the bulletin board, and to my suprise, the college was offering a unique class that semester titled "New Testament". I've never been one to adopt an "intellectual" approach to matters of faith but this would definitely be better than another boring philosophy class I thought.

So halfway through the semester, a strong argument is raging in class about Paul being a mysoginist, impostor, preaching a different gospel etc etc I'm more of a listener so I'm just sitting back enjoying the show. And the professor (who to my suprise was not a christian at all, but a serious bible history enthusiast, borderline obsessed I would say) with his dingy glasses and khaki pants, quiets the class, then remarks in voice that I have never forgotten, and with a tone that was dangerously close to tears, and with a reverence that seemed to come from deep within his soul, he said "if Paul were alive today, I think he would be devasted with grief, overcome with pain and shock and simply die of disappointment at how his letters have been misunderstood".

With that, he dismissed the class.

nuclearboy:
@Jesoul:

This your modesty na wah O - learning from me? (Aletheia I definitely understand sha). You stand out there ahead, Ma'am and I hope you're having a lovely day

A lovely day it is, and I hope a lovelier day is yours thank you sir Nuclear. And yes oh, believe it. I think we will all be amazed at how much of an impact even the smallest of words or points we make, have on the silent audience - those who just read and never post. Please carry on!

Lol Amare a future Bull? now that's some real bull

You guys cannot afford to get 2 major superstars. Unless the Bull management is laundering some money and tapping funds from the local piggy bank . . . I hear that's how you guys roll in the windy city

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=441519.msg6002690#msg6002690 date=1273059522]J-babe,

Yeah my projects are over, at least for now  .[/quote]And I hope you came through in brilliant, successful fashion?

my use of the word "hypocrite" aint intended to insult anyone but to stir a fact. (*^{apologies if it read the otherwise}).

It's okay, apologies aren't necessary as no offense was taken .

Your use of the term "gospel" of the modern-day MOGs may mean that you do not go to modern churches as well as listen to their sermons. i guess you are coming from the ancient and prolly still need some time to settle in the present.

but whicheverway it goes, lets both realise that the latter church cannot and i repeat cannot be like the early church. one was intended to plant while the other waters. at least simple logic will tell us that those who build d foundation aint the same as those who'll put the finishings.

My point:

- giving remains a status even in the new testament, do yourself the favor of unsettling the notion that because the act of giving has been widely abuse now means it is evil to give or preach giving.

I don't want to get into the debate as others are already doing a great job of replying your points but I'll just reiterate that a few of the responders have already remarked several times that giving goes hand in hand with the word christian. And that is wonderful and should be encouraged. However, "giving" that occurs in response to trickery or coercion or manipulation is not giving - it is the solicitation, entrapment & blackmail of gullible and sometimes sincere people.

^^ lol

So no one cares about the Spurs and the Suns? Bawo maybe you should adopt those teams.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5167188
Antoine Walker is trying to make a comeback into the NBA . . . well, he's got bills and debts to pay to his bookie .

I just wanted to pop in and say to especially Enigma, Aletheia, Nuclearboy, I have learned so much from your exchanges with pastor Joe these last few pages and I wanted to say thanks to you all.

Aletheia, I especially thank you for this image. It has joyously arrested and pleasantly haunted me ever since you posted it. Few days ago as I reflected and meditated on it, it gave me goosebumps, just thinking of God's grand scheme that is so beyond the grasp of our human imagination. The great mystery of reconciliation, birthed by a mercy from God that is unsearchable, immeasurable, that reaches to the ends of the earth to every tribe and nation. Awesome stuff.

Please do a quick search, there are countless Trinity-related topics in this section.

http://www.google.com.ng/cse?cx=partner-pub-6465801557104924%3Abko28ysgdng&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=trinity&siteurl=www.nairaland.com%2F

Krayo, wassup?  

I like Karo's comments and I have a few pithy ones to add.

I fail to see how Paul's little to no commentary on the life and times of Jesus is problematic - well at least to the christian. I would imagine that the details of Jesus life (seeing how He was such a popular figure) was plastered all over the front pages of the 'Jerusalem Times' and popular fodder for the masses, and therefore was familiar to Paul's audience. But even if that weren't the case, I don't think Paul was overly interested in giving a history lesson on the person of Christ, but rather
1. expounding on & shedding theological and practical light on the gospel that He preached, and the reason for His death and resurrection
2. expressing and establishing godly guidelines and principles by which the church should operate

 Cheers.

^^ hehe oya Chic confess now you already ordered your whites where's CH2?

^^^  Kai! Kobe riding Gasol, so apt and fitting  Bawo you are indeed evil, wondrously evil

  But mehn they should've taken it easy with the make-up and air-brushing on Kobe . . . he looks  . . . gosh I hate to say it but stoopid & scary. This is Alex Rodriguez type of lunacy. If any of you fellas ever get famous, please I beg una sincerely, do not agree to participate in these types of rubbish in the name of celebrity or publicity.

bawomolo:
smh@kobe's fashion line.
this is what happens when doyin is your fashion designer

http://www.latimesmagazine.com/2010/05/kobe-white-hot.html

ROTFLOL dear Lord! what the hell is that? even with the obvious over-air-brushing them no even make the thing look like good thing

chiogo:
^^What in the world!! This guy wowo sha.

bawomolo:
you know ethanol and chick2pimp are lining up to grab one of those outfits

ROTFLOL . . . omgosh, you guys are killing me this mo' I'm spilling all my juice

^  why you dey sweat me? na Espn talk am now  me I just copy and paste hehe
  Rose can only fantasize about those 19 assists Rondo picked up last night in 3Qs.

and oh by the way . . .   

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-100504
PG rankings: Who's No. 1 now?
the top point guards in the league looks like this:

1. Williams
2. Nash
3. (Keeping it warm for Paul)
4. Rondo
5. Billups
Honorable mention: Rose, Westbrook, Parker, Nelson.

Espn has spoken   

bawomolo:
cav playbook

https://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss129/blazini81/3bcb4a085c72e5fe815a181e6b8e493a.gif

ROTFLOL . . . that is hilarious!

Bawo you are evil for posting that, and whoever made it is evil-er

chic2pimp:
Was about to say what does Jesoul know about footy until. . . . . . .

You no well  I would have you know once upon a time I was a serious Arsenal fan, made in the likeness of my dad and brothers . . . then something happened . . . I grew up 

P:S Anastacia sang the 2002(held in Korea and Japan) worldcup theme song

morpheus24:
The sentiments of the WC is bigger than One countires PRIDE,

Nice point Morph. Chic thanks for the tidbit too. I would say that since it appears historically the anthem of the world cup has not always been sung by a native of the land (infact it is rarely if ever the case) then I think Southafricans should let it go. There are bigger and more important fish to fry, battles to fight.

^ lol. Dayo you are more than welcome to join in the fun. Just one criteria we have to check out first . . . are you a liberal?

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=439560.msg5996536#msg5996536 date=1272974429]na lie i no believe u! na you design dat poster joh! [/quote]Lol. Of course I designed it, with my sinister self.

Infact I also designed this website http://www.cruxmagazine.tv/eblast/NGCC/PastorsSummit/. I run the entire site and force churches and men of god to make and post advertisements of the themselves and of their seminars, and I then use those adverts against them. Gosh, I'm so evil.

Tonye, I see your exams are over lol. I'm less inclined to tussle at the mo' . . . but if being a "hypocrit" is simply Tonye-speak for those who do not bend over to the 'gospel' of modern-day mOGs, then by all means, I and the others are staunch, unrepentant, die-hard and extremely proud hypocrits.

Nigerians why una dey front now? we all know their allegations are probably true    But SA should not be complaining jare . . . match with their own "over-age" players and level the field, or quit complaining  . This is women's soccer, practically no one cares about it anyways.

chiogo:
Hehe, I bet it is, you would know since your team are big-time customers.

Ouch!

morpheus24:
They are looking at it from a commerical angle. Shakira will draw more people cause she is an international artist.

I see. But at the cost of furious Southafricans lol.

Ricky Martin sang for World cup 1998 in France

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8c4KNZ1Sb4&feature=related

The rest of 2002 and 2006 was a compilation of several artists so not sure which one was official.

Hmm . . . if this is the case, that historically it hasn't always been a native of the host country doing the official anthem, then I don't think south africans can complain too much. Although the significance of this being the first WC on african soil is certainly not lost on me. America/europe hosting is not the same as Africa hosting.

Funny the "waka waka" Shakira's song is actually pidgeon for " walk walk". He hehehe!. How broken take enter world cup. Truly African !!!

Lol, I wondered about that while I was listening to the song. I thought maybe it meant something else in SA-speak lol.