₦airaland Forum

Krayola:
AAAAAAAAARRGGHH!! This is too much flattery for one day. I'm going to go and hide now. Shyness is catching me.

Don't do the crime if you can't handle the shine

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=375908.msg5270318#msg5270318 date=1262897981]Hi JeSoul. Before I directly address your question, let me explain what I believe faith is. Faith is an experiencing of the power of God or the will of God by the spirit of man. In otherwards, faith is the conviction that becomes an integral part of the the human spirit as a consequence of such a spirit experiencing the power of God and how this power of God creates, sustains and maintains all existence. A man has faith when his spirit has recognised the will of God and willingly adapt his will to be in sync with the will of God. Such a connection with God permits the human spirit the grace to have extraordinary insight into the laws of God that govern all creations and how these laws manifest in both the so called natural worlds and supernatural worlds. Thus what such a man of faith believes in cannot be contradicted by past, present or future development in both the physically visible worlds and the invincible supernatural worlds, and such a genuine faith will always be in harmony with love, justice and purity. Whatever is not imbued with love, justice and purity is not from God. Ofcourse people can intellectually argue that these concepts are relative but when in sober moments, most people will very easily recognise what is not love, what is impure and what is unjust. Although it may be viewed as presumptous by others, a man that has faith in God as I described above can say with certainty what is possible and what is impossible. But above all, such a one radiates love in his being and even though he may be physically old, disabled or sick, the eyes glitter with such a radiance akin to a greeting from heaven.[/quote]This is just . . . too . . . Please everyone on this thread, stop, and ponder on the bolded red quote above. It is just beautiful.

Krayola, it also speaks to the question you had asked on whether new advances or discoveries etc could alter one faith in something they believe in.

Based on my crude description of what I know faith is, I can then say that I believe in God by faith.

Cool.

A man who believes in life after death but have not personally experienced it can not be said to have faith. Faith becomes alive in a man who have personally experienced life after death and can give irrefutable evidence of it if a questioner seriously want a clarification on such a matter. Thus contrarly to what is generally believed, genuine faith can produce tangible, clear cut evidence if the enquirer is seriously seeking for the truth. Stay blessed.

I'm confused a bit here. So you believe one cannot truly have faith in something they haven't experienced?

Do you subscribe to the biblical definition of faith? that is it the "substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"? Thanks!

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=369306.msg5270213#msg5270213 date=1262896869]Seek God first and how you fit into his program, not how he fits into yours, and everything else will fall into place. He promised that, and if He lies, he's not worth bothering with, is he?[/quote]Jokes aside, this is a perfect summation of the entire thing.

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=369306.msg5270213#msg5270213 date=1262896869]If all else fails, meditate on Daniel Craig. Chaaaant his beautiful name like a rose-guilded mantra. Helps. Totally. [/quote]  Max, stop leading the guy astray with that scruffy old man Craig. If you want to suggest a viable alternative it should be Josh Duhamel. And please don't make me include pictoral evidence, NL will crash under the weight of his magnificence 

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=173006.msg5270324#msg5270324 date=1262898053]Darthmaul; you liked Ben Hur! Charlton's wonderful isn't he? He just stamps those epics with his wonderful diction and presence. Oh my. The part where he was a slave in The Ten Commandments and was half-nekkid in mud. *gasp* My parents bought the thing for our religious instruction but I was NOT thinking religious thoughts. I spent three hours wondering who was sexiest between Moses (Heston), Rameses (Bryner) and Joshua (Derek). [/quote]www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6
Dear Lord, please forgive Max, that naughty girl, who instead of fixing on your message, was instead fixated on your messenger. I know she meant no harm, you know how the minds of little girls run wild. I thank you for reigning in her wandering eyes (ehm almost completely, e remain this Craig obsession) and I pray the good work you began, you be faithful to complete it. Amen!

Darthmaul:
My list of 20 fave movies not in any order
the departed
godfather 1&2
T2:judgement day
The dark knight
Silence of the lambs
Memoirs of a geisha
The phantom of the Opera( gerard n emmy rossum)
the patriot(mel gibson)
the sixth sense
goodfellas
usual suspects
casino royale
casablanca
ben-hur
Red Dragon
seven(se7en)
others to follow,

I like the list mucho. The Departed was good, weird, but good. Always wanted to see "Geisha" this is a good reminder. So where's your cheesy flick? everyone is allowed at least one.

Ibime:
Have you performed your civic duty of reporting Abuzola to the authorities like Farouk Muttallab's father reported him to the CIA?

Seems someone already beat me to it https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-375092.128.html#msg5274857

^

spikedcylinder:
Thank you o!
I was even afraid to mention on here that Memento annoyed the bejeezuz out of me. It's an alright movie, not one that I'll remember much after watching and definitely not one to top all time faves lists.

My sister thank you jare. I asked Kinky cos I thought I was the only one. The entire thing was about a confused man who could not remember where to pee even if his life depended on it. I was bored 20 mins in but sat thru it to see what the fuss was all about.

Kinkinatus:
Two can play that game was one of those cheesy movies that I found very fascinating. A little cheesiness goes some way.

Lol, word. I don't go a day without being reminded in here of my supposedly misplaced affection for Norbit 

I haven't seen Memento yet, but I have heard good things about it. Am gonna have to add that to my to watch movie list. Cheers.

I was jus wondering. Everyone seems to love it, in the tops of all time lists. Yet I found it incredibly annoying and was sorry I wasted the 2hrs.

Kinky (hehe I could get used to that too) Spiked is a dudess.

Spiked have you considered 'The Box'?

vescucci:
All you need now is a tight leather suit, metal garter belts, gags, horse whips chains and shackles and maybe a flame thrower and you're set. Stop making fun though. Kinky is inducted,

Vesc stop giving us a glimpse of your extra curricular activities

H2O2:
Yeah, I agree.
Yes o, I don't have a choice. I have to put my pride aside at some point in time.

Why you dey talk like say you be old man eh? I thought you fellas like to wait until grey hair don begin show before settling down?

chiogo:
I dunno what to say My Rondo. *sigh*

LMFAO, you shoulda seen me yesterday. He's not just the man, he's MY man

Oya, haters sip what you know best.

Lol plenty of hatorade to go round . . .

And I will not miss the chance to rubb this in the faces of Rondo haters  Chiogo your husband has done us proud.

Please skip that rubbish that happened in the first minute and watch from 1:40 min.
[flash=700,400]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/wnmKcKRYhuk[/flash]
  I was almost threw my laptop into the ceiling last night  Kai! see alleyoop. And then the jumpshot that seals the win in OT. Rondo is tha man, worth every cent of that $50+ milla.

^^ abi o bawo, I've been meaning to ask A-40 what he did with Moonstone. Hope she's not in a suitcase somewhere in your basement!

r231:
Gilbert is A SlowPoke. The way he was laughing and joking about all this was basically begging for a suspension. Between all his jokes, interviews, and twitter updates all making light of this, Stern had to suspend him.
Good call Mr. Stern. He should be expelled from the NBA IMO. But we all know that won't happen. He'll probably wind up with a year long suspension. Good for Stern though, he needs to crack down harder on his players, guns don't belong in the work place, and the NBA is no different.

True true. He was truly begging for it. I dunno about expelling him from the league, haba, that is too harsh. Afterall, he didn't shoot up a storm like Stephen Jackson.

Deep Sight:
Let me slow down at this point. Let us dwell on that which is deduced so far from the codes. . .

I am going to adduce extensive explanations in prose: but for deductive purposes let us stop here and reflect on the last sentence in the quote above. There is hardly any need to add any other attribute to the source, other than that which is empirical: that it is eternal.

Neverthless we shall smuggle in only ONE more certain attribute, and leave the construct at that.

Still coming. . .

I am particularly intrested in that part. Please continue . . .

Yisraylite:
@Jesoul

I believe in the prophecies of YahshaYah(Isaiah) & Daniyl, besides alot of what is written in Revelations was taken from Daniyl and YahshaYah!

Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

So that means destruction is coming no matter what we do right? But this is not to say we don't herald and champion good vices as much as we can, we absolutely must.

Krayola:
haha. I guess what i'm trying to get out of you is this. . . is your belief in God dependent on the historicity of some of the most spectacular things in the bible happening just as described, literally. i.e. Is God/Jesus only worthy of faith/belief if those things are believed literally. If Jesus was not born of a virgin and the actual/literal son of God, is his life and example not worthy of adoration, and can his life not be seen as the presence of God on earth, based on the vision he had for his world, and outside of the context of the "magic" he is said to have done.

Dependent? no, supplemented? yes. Like I said, I[b] choose[/b] to believe those stories but my faith is not grounded in them, it is grounded in God.

Faith in what?

In God brother, in God alone.

Does faith require understanding? And do you think faith should evolve and be shaped by understanding, rather than vice-versa->(Faith shaping all understanding. . .so, for example, since u believe/have faith that those accounts are literally true and historically accurate, you will understand all evidence to the contrary as nonsense, and therefore, dismiss them). Please explain, if you don't mind.

This is a good question.
Lemme give a quote from Beneli and Viaro on another recent thread:

beneli:
With regards to the place of 'reason' and 'revelation', I would say that there is a limit to what reason can do for us in our attempts to walk with God. Revelation plays a great role as well; but i think the starting point is 'Faith'. Without 'faith' its impossible to even start on the journey. So for me it has been first of all faith, then came revelation and then reason. People should sort out issues of their faith first. Revelation will come to those who are earnest and honest.

viaro:
Hi beneli, I like your points; but here's something that caught my attention:

That's quite sweet. For many others, though, it follows another sequence:

          (a)  revelation --> faith --> reason
          (b)  reason  --> faith  --> revelation
          (c)  reason  -->  revelation  --> faith

Perhaps, it all depends on each person's pespective and experience.

I hope that answers for me?

hahaha. I swear if I were to show my mother all your posts in this section, and say to her "Mum, the author of these has agreed to marry me". . she will literally Scream, jump up for joy, shout alleluia, and start doing the electric slide and all kinds of moves.  

Lol   well, tell your mum she did a fantastic job in raising a brilliant young man who's not afraid to think and ask questions and challenge the status quo, but yet manages to do so with cheerful humility. Honest now, I'm not flattering you, its true.

Fair enough. . . but is the bible also from deep inside of your heart? does it not play a central role in your faith? if it does not, then fine. But if it does, the original context of those stories should affect how they are understood, and IMO, shape (not shake) your faith. I have no interest in shaking your faith. None.

I know Krayola, you're just asking questions, good ones. Not like the regular atheist cynics floating around this section. The bible is absolutely central to my faith. It is how I learn about God, about how to live a fruitful life that God can be pleased with and that can affect and influence my fellow men postively while I'm here. Those stories like Noah's ark, Moses and the Isrealites crossing the red sea, I don't see how one can not view them literally in the way they are written.

But I fear in the literal interpretation of those stories, some miss the whole point entirely. I care not whether creation was 6 days or 6 million, through evolution or not. The main point is that God created us. and that is more than enough for me.

Thanks for your answers. . .

You're welcome anytime

Krayola:
haha. . .I believe if I wear my Barcelona Jersey and sit in a certain chair during our games, we will win every game. When for some reason I'm unable to do this, I get very uncomfortable and feel like I have sold out my team. I don't know how rational that is, but I honestly do believe that.  

I think we all, on one level or the other, believe crazy s.h.it. we all, also,  respect Je seoul. This is Nairaland. It's the nature of the beast. Na all out combat

Lol   and I really don't mind the grilling. Like I said it forces us religious folk to think critically and consider what we believe and why we believe it. I happen to think that these challenges are a blessing.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=375908.msg5268909#msg5268909 date=1262885272]I think that you guys should respect JeSoul beliefs instead of questioning the rationality of her beliefs. My perception is that she is a very honest person and should be granted the privelage of taking her by her own words. She has clearly stated that her religious conviction is based on faith, and one does not need to be a seer to see that her religious conviction have drawn her closer to God. I do not think that the door to God is opened or closed based on whether one thinks virgin birth is possible or not. Each honest human being reflects his or her level of spiritual maturity and as long as such a one remains honest and open to guidance from God, he or she will one day have multiple confirmatory experiences on anything that has been a mystery or a puzzle. Personally I do not sense that virgin birth is possible but it will be wrong to suggest that one who honestly believe (like JeSoul) that the son of God was concieved physically without the fusion of egg and spermatozoa is irrational. The much one can say is that one does not believe that it is possible and then give reasons for saying so. I do not think there will be much conflict if we state what our beliefs are and why will believe so. Problems arise when we openly or surreptitiously try to force our convictions on others or demonize those whose views appear incompatible to our own. Best wishes.[/quote]M-Nwankwo, not because you spoke in my defense but you already know I view you as one the wisest, if not the wisest souls to ever grace NL. I really like this

I do not think there will be much conflict if we state what our beliefs are and why will believe so.

I like this so much.

I have realized how radically different people's experiences can be, which in turn leads them to conclude different things about the same world we all live in. It's all about learning, I have learned so much from the atheists especially on NL, they have forced me to look and think critically about what I believe and I am grateful for that scrutiny because it has only made me stronger and firmer in what I already know to be true.

---

and I will like to flip the question back to you Nwankwo. Why do you believe the things you believe? also by faith?

Yisraylite:
@ Jesoul

Point noted,I however ask this , are you okay with the status quo? is the ultimate recourse divine intervention? Never before in the history of the Earth has mankind had the power to destroy this Earth 100 times over, but now, with nuclear weapon technology and its proliferation, what would be the eventual faith of our planet? if any nation decides to use this evil technology

Isa 24:6 Therefore the curse has devoured the earth, And those who dwell in it are desolate. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, And few men [are] left.


Is this what the Earth is headed for?

Well, do you believe the prophecies in Isaiah? Daniel? Matthew? Revelations?

Deep Sight:
I am happy you concede that it has nothing to do with rationality at all.

The virgin birth? yes. By all worldly standards, it is irrational to believe it happened. By Jesoul's standards? by biblical standards? makes perfect sense and it has no consequence to anyone but me. This is in no way to suggest that christianity requires one to check in their brains at the door and swallow everything- no, not by a long stretch.

Do not evade on Buddhism; confess now; you regard that belief of the elephant as irrational - yes or no!

Lol, wetin concern me concern spiritual elephant? Who am I to rubbish what they believe in their face? to each his own. The same way you get slighted when folks in here ridicule your view on oneness of infinity as irrational and baseless.

 As long as he/she is not affecting anyone else abeg let them ride on. We will all stand alone and answer for only our actions and beliefs someday.

---

Kray, I will be back to answer you in a jiffy.

ancel:
^^^^
@conversation:
I just love this JeSoul gal!

Lol, my brother, I know no say na interrogation I go face this morning 

In any case these questions should be charged to more articulate people such as yourself and nuclearboy, perhaps, you will be able to do it much more justice than I have.

  So you sef, why do you believe the bible and christianity and not other religions? oya talk your own.

Yisraylite:
What is wrong with these laws ,these days we have Priests molesting little children, Pastors stealing money from the poor, despoiling and abusing memebers of their church members extremist Imams advocating murders via suicide bombers,police turning armed robbers, country leaders embezzling national funds, Jews murdering innocent people, palestinians murdering innocent people, slavery,rasicim,wars being waged in almost every continent and the list goes on and on

Uhm, homeboy, I hate to break it to you but this has been happening since the beginning of the world. Ain't nuthin new under the sun. We're just continuing on (rather remarkably and efficiently) in the footsteps of our forefathers.

Abu Zola:
Jesoul help me beg them o, na just papa ajasco i dey pretend and not true life.
@debosyky the sexuality mastes board, have mercy on poor abu, eh

Abu!!!  A fine bobo such as yourself should be enjoying life and relationships instead of chanting jihad. Listen to Nuclearboy.

^^ its not even harsh enough in response to this kind of rubbish

Mpele:
jealousy can make people sound so silly sometimes! especially some of these backward terrorists from that third world, filthy, overcrowded hot place called Nigeria!!

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=376719.msg5265389#msg5265389 date=1262852601]JeSoul,

Thanks for looking out for my well being. [/quote]I got your back brotha 

Judging by the way America is fighting this war on terror, the scale is tipped in al Qaeda's favor. Contrary to released broadcasts of al Qaeda being decimated in number and capacity, the reality on the ground proves otherwise.

Between the incident of Dec 25th and today, a mere two weeks. . .America's response in monetary value alone is already in billlions of dollars. What is the cost to al Qaeda, using any measure of value? Zero!!! That action has not cost them to loose any life, property, territorial control or operational asset.

al Qaeda understand this handicap on the American side and are exploiting the imbalance in the scale. I am only a messenger of truth. . .I connect the dots and narrate the play. I am not an actor in the script.

You ever watched the movie 'The Magician' ? lmao!

You're absolutely right. Absolutely right. People have been saying its only a matter of time before Americans get tired of all these "wars on terrorism" in all these countries. I supported bringing the troops home because I know this is not a winnable initiative and will end once the pockets run dry. Extremists have existed since ancient times, they will still be here after we're long gone.

Ibime:
All this war on terror will never end. . . Bush opened a pandoras box. . . today its Afghanistan and Iraq. . . tomorrow Yemen, Iran and Somalia. . . . the only way to end this is to adopt a volte-face on middle-Eastern policy and withdraw all support for Israel. . . . thats the only way the Arabs will sheath their swords. . . those people too get strong-head. . .

For where? Go to the religion section. And open the profile of NL's own foremost jihadist Abuzola. It pictures a certain hard-faced man, pointing with indignation, holding a placard that states "Islam will dominate the world".

  This is what they want and they will not sleep nor slumber until they kill all the infidels.

sauer:
Hey Jesoully, I don't think you know you can as well do all these things without being a "christian" or believing in the virgin birth. I hope you don't think you do all these things because you a christian. . . .what that would be?

I'm tempted to call you Saucer 

But seriously, practically everything I do in my life is directly influenced by my faith in God. My daily life is pretty much an endless striving to live as Jesus did. Though I fall painfully short all the time, that is my goal.

I reiterate. My personal beliefs have no effect on anyone but me. So why does it itch atheists like Maher what I believe? what is to you all? Am I not a responsible, contributing member of society?

In fact, there are numerous people who do very goood stuffs and who are not christians nor believe in the virgin birth nor resurrection of a 2000-year old god, etc. People are naturally very friendly in many european cities, yet europeans hardly go to church. so? It's in our n a t u r e.

I agree. But for me, my motivation is Jesus Christ.

The problem is thinking you have to do this because you a christian, then (from my standpoint) you r only doing it for the profit of heaven, n'est ce pas?

It's not that I "have to do it". That's the wrong way to look at it. But it comes naturally for anyone who has been transformed by the message of the gospel.

My advice: do all these things, but just keep little ol' virgin mary outta it!

Again what does my belief in the virgin Mary have to do with anything? anything? It does not affect you nor anyone else so why is it such a big problem?

why? you risk encouraging a lot more evil, you risk being an enabler of a religion that kills without blinking an eye. For one, do you accept Israel as a people of god (like the bible says) and thus support their invasion of defenceless palestine such that these Palestinians now live in poverty and shame because of some ridiculous bible verses?

And in the same breath mention the billions of christians using the same bible to live peaceful, fruitful lives. Extremism exists even among the hallowed atheists and non-religious. That is by no means an indictment on all of religion.

Do you also take it as the book says that homosexualism is a sin, and that homos will rot in hell? You act towards this, in words, in thoughts, in votes and then you deny certain people their freedom to life

Haba when did you see me denying anyone their right to live freely? Saucer stop it oh, don't make me bring out my koboko.

Do you believe that the world will come to an end? Then why won't you assist in bringing it about?
. . . .such numerous silly thoughts are not out of place in any religion, to which you happen to belong at this instance.
That's my take.

That's your take indeed.

---

sauer:
Jesoul, are you a scientist at all?
After you witnessed these "certain things and events", why didn't you bother to develop hypothesis and proceed by the scientific method to validate or invalidate these? You seem to me more like someone who's willing to believe what they believe just so they can be safely tucked away in the bossom of the lord.
Christ!
Heaven knows the day I witness one of these so-called supernatural events, I'm going to go at it and start investigations. For the most I have heard, I have always found a rational explanation for these things; it's only a pity people never look to examine these "certain things" rationally

Saucer my friend, I really think all you need is a hug .

Deep to tha Sight

you did not truly answer my question. How can I be irrational for making decisions based on my experiences though they may be different from yours?

Deep Sight:
Jesoul -

I THINK Krayola has already nailed away most of what i would have thought to say. . .

Yes, Krayola is smart as a tac.

1. Are you aware that the concept of a virgin birth or birth without prior copulation was hugely popular in the ancient world, and all sorts of political and spiritual leaders were very often declared to be "sons of gods" not born via human copulation? These things were ascribed to them. . .

Oh yes, I am very aware.
I am also aware that more than 50% of marriages will end up in divorce. Will it prevent me from tying the knot? My point again is simply faith. I believe based on faith.

2. The prophecy in Isaiah which supposedly predicts the virgin birth is mistranslated. The word translated as virgin therein is teh hebrew "alma" which means "young woman". . . the hebrew for "virgin" is actually "betulah" which is not used there! At all events that prophecy was an immediate one, which was fulfilled in the very next chapter in Isaiah!  
3. Note also that ALL young women in those days were socially referred to as virgins in expectation of the social standard or chastity required of them.

I saw the thread in which you wrestled this out with Nuclearboy I think. You both were using the same verses and giving different views of it. I'm sure you're aware that due to our subjective nature, so much of the scriptures are unfortunely lost in translation.

4. I thus cannot see the rationale behind believing that a person gets pregnant without prior copulation. . .

You cannot see the rationale and that is fine. Really it is. As for Buddha and his spiritual elephant, like I said to Krayola, it has little to do with me. So whether they are being rational or not is irrelevant to me and the world.

When Jesus preached it was simply a matter of believing it or not. The bible itself says a lot of its messages are foolishness to the world. So I'm not tustling with you over that. I'm simply saying, my life has taken a path and run into events that have led and caused me to believe the unbelievable. And I make no apologies for it.

Krayola:
Do you think unexplained necessarily equates to supernatural? As in, is a freak occurrence necessarily supernatural, or due to divine intervention?

Nope, not necessarily.

When you say something cannot be explained by our limited faculties, are u considering that 2000-4000 years ago there was even more that "cannot" be explained by our limited faculties, and thus, going by your methods, more to put in the "supernatural events" column.

I understand. I should've been more specific. I certainly don't throw every event that is unexplainable into the "supernatural box". But the one that I had? definitely yes.

Let us say, for instance, that we were to find the remains of Jesus (just hypothetical, I doubt it will ever ever happen). As in, confirmed, no question about it; or we were to have irrefutable evidence that Jesus had a human father, never raised the dead, and walked on water and all that stuff (I mean confirmed 1000% no question about it). . .would that be the end of your Christian faith, or even further, your belief in God?

Lets say for instance, that we were to find out I was never born, who would've been here discussing with you instead of me? 
  Barrister sir, I cannot offer even educated guesses on speculations that can never occur.

Does your belief in God, or your Christian faith, rest on the literal interpretation of the "supernatural' claims in the Bible?

My belief in God rests solely on faith. All else is just extra.

Do you think belief in God that isn't based on such is incompatible with Christianity, as understood by yourself?

This is a loaded and broad question, can you please be more specific so I can answer accordingly?

Will you marry me?

Lol, you already know I have a sizeable amount of respect for you. Coupled with that no-nonsense barritone . . . just might do the trick.

The other religious beliefs and stories (now classified as "myths" in popular culture) that existed centuries and even millennia before both Judaism and  Christianity, that have strong parallels with some of the biblical stories. . .what do you make of them? And if you dismiss them as false, or not the way to salvation, on what grounds? What makes the ones in the bible believable and the others just "folk tales"? (Kinda like our African traditional religions.)

Krayola my friend, I concern myself little with what happened in 4,000BC or 4,000,000BC or 2000AD. Like I said, my belief in God is grounded in faith, not in biblical stories that may or may not have parallels with other religions. This is not to insinuate I do not study and learn about the roots of my religion, but it is to say whatever I may "learn" will not shake my faith because it is not rooted in acquired knowledge, but in something intangible deep in my heart.

  Which is why I will not now nor ever be so bold as tell anyone what to believe. But I tell them what I believe and why I believe it. And it is up to each person to figure it out for themselves.

Does the fact that pretty much every great religious or political figure of that era (biblical times and before) had "legends/myths" told and written about them, in your opinion, indicate that that was just the language of the day, and the stories were more symbolic than historical?

Very good question that I think has a lot of merit. It could've been symbolic and it could've been historical - there's no way we can truly be sure. I choose to view most of them as historical. Does that make me looney in the eyes of today's "rational thinkers"? I could care less.

thank u 

Nah thank you! Kai I no no say na interview I go dey do this morning 

Debosky, I wonder, for how long will you be in "solemn contemplation"? e don tay now

ancel:
Thanks, JeSoul, for kitting sauer's head on a nail. I mean, for hitting the nail on toneyb's head. I mean, the head

Lol, you're inciting violence Ancel

Deep Sight:
A danger to society? No.

Stoopid? . . . No.

Irrational. . .Definitely.

Oga mi, but what is rational if not a very relative term.

  Life has afforded me the opportunity to witness and experience certain things and events that cannot be explained by our limited faculties. These supernatural events have only served to reinforce the beliefs that I hold. Hence I continue to hold them dearly.

Does that make me irrational? or infact just quite the opposite.

I wish I were possession of a power that allowed me to project my experiences onto others, perhaps then, they might get a glimpse as to why we christians believe what we believe. Until then, we will be quite content with being regarded as "irrational".

---

Edit:
  Ever seen the movie I, Robot? It would drive home the point I'm making. To everyone in Smith's life, he was irrational, nuts even for questioning the unshakable fact that robots were just robots and could not be or do more than they were programmed to do. But Smith had had an experience, he had seen first hand that there was more to the supposedly simple equation. He couldn't prove or project his experience to others to make them understand but he knew it deep down and opposed all that claimed otherwise. And he was right. My point: All that seems irrational is not always is my friends.

debosky:
Yes, but I'm sure we can find a way to show the heads of state are anti-allah, especially the Christian ones or the ones without the appropriate Osama inspired beard.  

ah yes of course! slightly sinister, but utterly brilliant  

H2O2:
The spineless leaders are issuing ultimatums to the U.S. when they can't cough up their own useless President.

Let them continue to issue empty threats from behind their equally empty desks, straight from empty heads. 7 days will come and go and we will all be witnesses.

debosky:
Ps - plat if you need a freelance assassin, we have one on nairaland - his name is Abu Zola.

Freelance ke? Abuzola only kills for allah!  

Kink, follow the yellow brick road ehm I mean link https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-173006.2656.html#msg5262282