₦airaland Forum

DeReloaded:
JeSoul, get some gingerale. You must be tired having to repeat yourself.

Pele. lol

 hehe      

DeReloaded:
Dont know about others but[b] I know this is a lie cos David never lets an argument go, esp a religious one[/b]

Which is why I'm not letting Mazaje go after making an accusation against Osisi and David that is entirely untrue. They have not now nor ever spammed anywhere in the religion section.

bawomolo:
We can stop spamming by aggressively banning people or deleting threads.  maybe even banning by IP's.  Excessive subsections would kill this section.  What's the point of calling it a "Religion" section if christian topics would only be allowed in it.  

The only good idea is that atheists have their own mini group.

I actually agree with all your points.

 We'll see if Seun and AKO can moderate more vigilantly, that would indeed be the ideal solution. I personally don't want atheists to go, like I said many of you are cool and raise good questions and topics. Its just that the spamming riff raffs are giving you all a bad name.

bawomolo:
this is the basis for the whole thread.  We can quench the flames of atheism if we stop them from questioning or talking about our religion(christianity).  The question of whether god exists has been discussed by many greek philosophers (Descartes) and hindu philosophers.  These guys definitely didn't live in Christian societies.  Don't get too cocky, Religions get replaced over time.

I am 100% certain no christian thinks like this. Our bible teaches us atheism will increase with each day. We are not out to stop atheism, how clearly do I have to say this? we just want the spamming to stop. That's really all

mazaje:
uncountable times, davidylan opens threads and runs away so many times when he has been caught lying. . . .go and cheeck it out. osis just goes there and tries to show them that they are all fools for following islam. . . . not that i have any problem with that but why should you guys whine and complain when the same thing is been done to you?

So in short David and Osisi are not spammers as you initially accused them right?

 Everyone has a right to go and post in whatever forum they like that's NOT what this thread is about. I repeat no one is saying atheists should not open threads and discuss, we're simply asking that they do not spam and choke the religion board. Simple.

[quote author=**osisi link=topic=256119.msg3670267#msg3670267 date=1238524267]Let them air their views
They are entitled to it but the many threads on the same topic seems so juvenile.
I hardly ever read them.
bores me to death and I'm sure I'm not alone.
I'll rather be studying beccomerich's aerial photos[/quote]Exactly!!!! some quality maps sure would beat the nonsense in here these days.

mazaje:
pls can you tell me what the rants are? is asking questions the when jesus first appeard to 11 of his disciples rants? i looked into the gospels and saw two very contradictory accounts that cancel each other out, one account says in a room in jerusalem another says on a maoutain in galilee are these not legitimate questions? am i ranting when i ask for the real day that jesus was crucified? one gospel account says on the eve of passover while another says on the day of passover, these are legitimate queations don't you think so?

Mazaje enough with the smoke screen and answer my questions first.

  You accused David and Osisi so I asked:

  How many times have David and Osisi opened threads in the Islamic forum?  Have they opened multiple threads for the same topics?

mazaje:
christians don't want a taste of their own medicine eh   ? davidylan and osisi what are you guys always doing on the islamic thread thou hypocrites?

Yes they are there but how many threads have they opened in the last 1 month?

 How many threads on[b] the same topic [/b] have they ever opened in there or elsewhere?

 Nobody is saying people shouldn't contribute and post in different sections . . . JUST STOP SPAMMING THE RELIGION SECTION with rants. Shikena.

KAG, you are of the 'few' in this quote:

JeSoul:
Bawo, Lemme also add that there are a few atheists on NL that I like very much and enjoy discussing with them. They are level headed and easy-going. Unfortunately the fanatic riff raffs that are the ones spamming the boards with junk.

Bawo, Lemme also add that there are a few atheists on NL that I like very much and enjoy discussing with them. They are level headed and easy-going. Unfortunately the fanatic riff raffs that are the ones spamming the boards with junk.

 

bawomolo:
why not ask the mods to merge or delete threads then? ban posters that make repetitive threads? i've seem many are Catholic christian threads but somehow no one is screaming for a Catholic board.

I would actually be in total support of that versus a clean seperation. AKO is not around much so I guess he can't do that effectively. and I'm sure it gets tricky for him to moderate. When a few of huxleys thread were deleted he went and opened a few more threads asking why his posts were deleted     go figure.

bawomolo:
I wonder where was these call for change when OLADEEGBU and NO2ATHEISM/SysUser were making their threads. Catholics and protestants attack each other endlessly on here but i see no one crying for a Catholic section. This is a classic case of blame the minority for causing disorder.

personally, i have no problem with an Atheist section. All i know is separation would bring the eventual demise of this section.

You continue to miss the point . . .

  Yes but there is substance to the discussions and the threads on the same topics don't total more than 1 or 2 at a time. Ola and No2 have not been spamming the religion board! I am not saying atheists should not open topics but they open, rant and abandon, open, rant and abandon.

  We have at least 10 topics opened by the same people, ranting on the same issues and this is drowning out other topics in the section. The section was fine and healthy and popping before the ranters arrived, it will still be alive when they leave.

What happened to Pilgrim again? She is severely missed around here . . .

bawomolo:
The Religion and Romance forums would cease to exist if people stop posting rants, insults or things void of substance.

I have been on NL and in the Religion forum for yrs and you're right controvery drives the section, but things have changed drastically most recently. Now its just a few people with too much time on their hands spamming the entire place - this is what I have issue with.

 

Religion is a touchy subject, what's considered heretic and insulting to you could be the basis of another man's belief.  Some people on NL have comments on African traditional religions that would be considered insulting by an Ifa practitioner.  We atheists are called dunces, clueless buffoon, ignorant, and agents of the devil (but hey that's fine and not a rant) .

Common now, don't play the victim card. I can post 5 threads within the last hour that calls christians and christianity stupid, nonsense, idiots, bloodthirsty, perverted etc . . . every side gets insulted. That's not what I'm speaking against, I would just like to see the spam gone or at least toned down.

If the reaction of Christians and Muslims to differences is a quarantine, that shows why there is religion violence in places like Nigeria and Sudan.  I have no problem with an Atheist section if that would settle the wahala. Why be an unwelcomed visitor

You miss my point Bawo. I'm not crying quarantine becos christianity is under attack _{what else is new}. I would like to see a seperation becos the religion forum is a mess! plain and simple.

epi:
Just like war, giving the Atheist their own section isn’t going to solve anything.  

why

Christians are going to go over in the Athiest section to argue
Athiests are going to go over in the Christian section to argue
Vice versa with the Muslim and Christian Sections

True. But it will solve the problem of 'thread flow' which is my whole point and keep the place more organized. As it is now, quality topics in the religion forum are getting drowned out.

bawomolo:
I didn't support the move, Seun already made up his mind thanks to the infamous fatwah. This shows how doomed Nigeria is if we have to be separate each other on an internet forum. I won't oppose an Atheist section. If he majority wants it, you would get it.

Bawo christians and atheists have been peacefully "co-existing" in the religion forum until more recently when they started spamming the boards and posting repetitive topics, never sticking around to 'discuss' a thread. The majority of threads in the religion forum are rants and insults, ususally void of substance.

  I have no problem with atheists, I have a problem with the way they're spamming the religion board with their personal rants and frustrations . . .  psychologists exist for problems like that.

davidylan:
I agree. Its becoming a bore coming here . . . the old christian threads to discuss issues on doctrine are no more . . . all we have are rants and rants and more rants. Infact the religion section is no more than a breeding ground for the misguided and blind followers of the new secular religion. I wont hold my breath that your request will be granted though . . .

Exactly. For people who don't believe in God they sure spend a lotta time and exert a lotta energy on Him.

[quote author=**osisi link=topic=256119.msg3669845#msg3669845 date=1238518185]We all know why atheists concenterate of Christianity.
They know that's where the power is
everyother god na so so ye ye
The devil himself knows that and his agents agree as demonstrated on the threads[/quote]Yup true. I don't mind if they want to insult and abuse God from morn till noon . . . just let them go to their own space/board and do it. The Religion forum is close to worthless now becos of these spammers.

oyb:
no cure for crusading obsessions. you'll just have to deal with it

I have no desire to 'cure' them. Just direct them to their own cave where they can work out their issues without disrupting the rest of the religion forum.

DeReloaded:
Lol I doubt they'd be singing Kumbaya

hehe good point

Quality threads are getting drowned out as the obsessed atheists continue to spam the religion section with tired worthless recycled topics.

I propose we give the atheists their own child board so they can scream and bash a God they don't believe exists. Let them have their own space to share and vent their anger and frustration, hold hands and sing kumbaya without disturbance from us christians or muslims.

Oga AKO what say ye?

Tragedies like these happen all the time brotha. Nobody knows _{or can feel} the time nor the hour when God will put an end to this world.

davidylan:
Have they ever?

abi o, I shoulda known better. [size=5pt]It's AIO's recent post encouraging christians to engage with them that nudged me into a few threads.[/size]

mazaje:
don't you think these questions are valid? why can't the biblegod heal amputees? i thought christian say that there is nothinbg that he can not do? we have pastors claiming that they have rasied the dead, healed the blind cured cancer ect but we are yet to see any amputee's limbs restored. when was jesus really crucified? on the passover or on the eve of passover? this are very legitimate questions don't you think so?

Stop blowing up smoke Mazaje. Go and respond to the scriptures I replied with in the thread you opened on "God's Chosen People". I have taken the time to provide you with plenty of scriptures that debunked your allegations and you did not show face to respond to them.

This is evidence enough for me you never had any genuine interest in 'discussing'.

Moonstone:
It is a good thing I took a leave because NOH cannot kill me. I can see Bawo has mouth now because his people managed to enter top 8. . . . . As for celts, I have nothing to say yet. I just hope y'all don't get injuries when it comes to playoffs.

I tell you. I wonder how he will act should the Bulls move up to #7
Your hornets are shady . . . not long ago they were flirting around 2nd seed out west now its bottom of the barrel #7. No one can stand up to the Lakers as of right now.

I am still distributing my sympathy chocolate though.

Men I need some o'dat I expected close to a full squad by this time but it ain't looking likely we'll have everyone back in time and back in shape all these haters been hating overtime . . .

Mazaje don't turn into huxley and start spamming the religion board. First go and finish the other threads/questions you asked esp the one about God's Chosen people which I replied with detailed scriptures and you haven't responded.

doyin13:
Finally who wan bet with me. . . .the Cavs don't go past the second round of the playoffs.

hehe our resident clairvoyant is back the Cavs not go pass 2nd rd? that one no seem likely oh . . . what are you prepared to wage? a picture of you kissing the Celtics & Patriots logo?

bawomolo:
talk true, what does perkins do that noah can't do. Both can't shoot anyway

Well for starters, one can be the starting Center of a championship team and the other cannot

Aight cool.
 
Here's the chapter:

Romans 9
God’s Selection of Israel

   1 With Christ as my witness, I speak with utter truthfulness. My conscience and the Holy Spirit confirm it. 2 My heart is filled with bitter sorrow and unending grief 3 for my people, my Jewish brothers and sisters. I would be willing to be forever cursed—cut off from Christ!—if that would save them. 4 They are the people of Israel, chosen to be God’s adopted children. God revealed his glory to them. He made covenants with them and gave them his law. He gave them the privilege of worshiping him and receiving his wonderful promises. 5 Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.

   6 Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promise to Israel? No, for not all who are born into the nation of Israel are truly members of God’s people! 7 Being descendants of Abraham doesn’t make them truly Abraham’s children. [/b]For the Scriptures say, “Isaac is the son through whom your descendants will be counted,” though Abraham had other children, too. 8 [b]This means that Abraham’s physical descendants are not necessarily children of God. Only the children of the promise are considered to be Abraham’s children.


  So my dear Mazaje, does this satisfy as being in the right context?

mazaje:
but before then i will like to know what the book in romans have to do with the promise that the hebrew god made to abraham in the genesis.

It has everything to do with it! In Acts 3 it says clearly:
And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, 'Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.'

  in Gal 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles [/u]through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. . . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


and most importantly . . .

Galatians 3:8
The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."

  Now do you see? that God's intention all along was to not just bless only Abraham and the Israelites, but to extend those blessings to ALL PEOPLE [u]through them!

Mazaje,
You always come back to "God killed all those people in OT" "He is immoral and bloodthirsty" etc . . . it is impossible to 'discuss' with you cos your emotions on the matter have gotten the best of you. Like AIO said to Huxley, your starting point is a bias. So discussing would only be an exercise in futility. I would love to throw scriptures back and forth and rip thru them but you're not really intrested in the truth, just propagating what you've already determined in your mind to be true.

When you start off saying God is stupid and senseless and incompetent, that's not ridiculing? whether or not you think these things, you don't open a conversation like that. Even when you disagree with your opponent, you still respect them. I know other christians make fun of islam and such and I'm not excusing that, but pointing to the fault of others does not excuse yours. And please I'm not trying to assume some moral high ground here cos I fall short myself but I believe in cordiality and mutual respect.

If you want to discuss solely on the topic of "God's chosen people" then lets start from the Romans 9 verses and chapter I quoted to you. If you want to continue mudslinging at a God you believe doesn't exist, then I must kindly make an exit.

[quote author=lai-lai link=topic=148652.msg3648138#msg3648138 date=1238107847]toooo bad we arent likely to meet this year [/quote]Continue with the hatoration . . . we shall continue to march on! death to the haters!

bawomolo:
So what, yall are lucky to have KG on defense. Walahi, perkins is shittier than Noah

Just when I think you've said the most ridiculous thing you go even lower with the above

If there's anybody that aint all that, it's the 7th marshmallow called NOWINZki

Marshmallow that you would love to have on your team yeye boy

bawomolo:
can yall guess who the no.7 seed in the east is

Albeit for only 24hours

mazaje:
Pls i will like to know what no nonsense mean here? it is very true that the hebrew god of the old testament has no sense at all if he does he wouldn't have been depicted the way he was in the old testament. what sense if there in telling men to stone to death another person for picking sticks on a sabbath? what sense is there in hardening people's heart and punishing them for hardening their hearts? i agree with you that the hebrew god of the old testament clearly has no sense.

My brotha you don't have to reduce to rediculing another's faith to get your point across.

  I said God is a no-nonsense God and what I mean is that His laws and commands are absolute and disobedience comes with consequences.

The problem he is that there is no choherent defination of god even amonts the christians? there are so many definations and all of them seem to cancel each other out. the god that the catholics worship is very different than the god pat robinson worships but that is another different matter entirely. how can you reconcile a caring god that loves humans with the same god that kills babies because their parents worship other gods? what did the babies do wrong? what kind of wrath is that? you said that god needs to be feared? it strikes me as still incomprehensible that a god could somehow or other gain anything by torturing his creatures for the mere satisfaction of compelling them to believe in him.

And that is your problem. You're looking towards fallible human beings to give you their definition and understanding of God and you're leaving jaded when they give you conflicting accounts. That is no ones fault but your own.

  If you want to know God, first be honest with yourself and leave all that hatred and disdain you feel towards religion and God behind. Purge your mind and disabuse yourself of all the preconceived notions you've been harboring . . . and then open the bible and read it again.

Who defined god and his characters? the writters of the bible did, no god has ever told any body what his characters are and you judge any god based on what the people that created him wrote about him. the hebrew writters wrote everything that we know about their god and we will use the chracters they attributed to such a god to judge him. what zero ground are you talking about if i may ask? god is far beyond our human intellect is always the lame excuse, god lives out side time and space so he can not be understood. this is the same excuse apologist provide but it falls falt because Our good god is in some way or other, right, showing people a certain amount of "soul-building" evil or wicked wrath on his side, so that people may come to know Him. that seems, quite frankly, ridiculous. it makes god into some kind of a sadist, which i believe he is judging by the way he is being portrayed in the hebrew bible, who will whip his creatures just so they know how good they have it. this strikes me as very, very strange. why can people just accept that the people that wrote the old testament wrote it based on their level of morality at that time. our level of morality today has by FAR out grown theirs.

That is NOT what I said. I didn't insinuate knowledge of God is unattainable, I said it is unattainable if you're only using your weak human mind to try to grasp a concept as big as God.

As for the rest of the paragraph . . . you are going in so many different directions its impossible to follow you. Are we still talking about God's chosen people? Have you read Romans 9 yet? and seen that God's chosen people are really those who choose to believe in Him both now and back then?

When you look at all the prohecies in context you will see that they were either mis interpreted our an outright fogery or lies, we will leave that for another discussion. as for the hebrew god and his chosen people it begs the question of whether the hebrew deity yahweh was in fact "god," with apparently no consideration at all to the possibility that yahweh was simply another tribal deity who was no more real than gagon, chemosh,b, ishtar, and other regional gods of that time who he loves killing or punishing people because they worship those other gods.

Again your own personal opinion.
Even non-christian scholars agree that many OT predictions are seen coming to fruition in the NT.

offtopic: what has happened to you in the past few months, you weren't this bitter and angry about God/religion in my discussions with you in the past.

mazaje:
are you sure of what you are saying? the hebrew god of the old testament is a very tribal and ethnic god that seems very unhappy when the normadic jews whom he refers to as his chosen people mix with other people. he highly discourages them from marrying other non hebrew tribes. he urged them to enslave and brand other people. read the book of joshua, is there anything in joshua with its wars, its murders and massacres, its swords dripping with the blood of mothers and babies, its tortures, maimings and mutilations, its fraud and fury, its hatred and revenge calculated to improve the world? all it shows is how wicked and evil the mind of the god which the jews created in their own image is. The book of joshua is as merciless as famine, as ferocious as the heart of a wild beast. It is a history a justification a sanctification of nearly every crime.

The book of judges is about the same, nothing but war and bloodshed; the horrible story of jael and sisera; of Gideon and his trumpets and pitchers; of jephtha and his daughter, whom he murdered to please jehovah. The hebrew bible(old testament ) is filled with stories about god commanding his choen people to kill others even with out provocation for land or women.

Your opinion on the matter my dear.
  I happen to think the God of the OT is a no-nonsense entity - the same God of the NT. I have said this several times and will repeat it again:

A lotta people have a hard time reconciling a loving, caring, righteous God with some of the events recorded in the OT . . . what we forget is that God is as much loving as He is fearful, as much caring as He is consuming fire, as much as God is to be worshipped, He is to be equally feared, We only get the fairy-tale description of God in most churches & in the world, they fail to teach that God disperses immense love but God also unleashes intense wrath. And we see this love and wrath all through the OT.

 So maybe the problem is with our preconceived definition of who God is and His characteristics? instead of starting at ground zero and building our understanding of God from there, the problem is we've made up in our minds a 'moral, loving' box and then tried and failed to fit God into it. God is far beyond the grasp of our human intellect, which is why we need His spirit to indwell us and reveal to our spirit who God is & why certain things He permitted seem so crazy & immoral to us.

Any body can qoute a verse in the bible to support his position, i will love to read the passage u pasted in context.

So go 'head and read up on it. Romans chp 9 and see if the conext doesn't fit perfectly.

if you read the bible properly before the christian founders came and high jacked the jewish religion and created a god out of the old jewish god you will know that the jewish god emains a tribal god forever. by the way the god the jews worship is not the same god that christians worship because the jews do not believe in jesus and their god has no son. Judaism is still alive you can go and ask the jews if you dont believe me, as far as they know they dont worship the same god with the christians. the christian god was formed out of the jewish god.

Again your opinion Maz.

 I have read the bible "properly" for years, and see no problem. The OT is bursting with prophecies that came to pass in the NT . . . what is your explanation of that if the NT is the fairy-tale you claim it is? No one is debating judaism here, of course it still exists. I thot we were talking about God and His chosen people?

chiogo:
Oh please, Howard isn't that nice. I'd say he's pretty smart/quick-witted(if that's a word). Am I the only one who noticed that all his shots were mostly hook shots and rebounding then putting it back in? C'mon now, anybody could do that, you just gotta be smart enough to know that missing a shot isn't the end of it. Celtics folks shoot, miss, and move on. Howard stands by the net when his team mate misses only to put it back in, nice move, I must say. Besides, with that body, you dare not stand in his way.

You're right Howard is a paint player. The only way to stop/slow him down is if you have another paint player with the muscle to box him out and block the occasional hook shot - the Celtics did not have KG and Powe - our two best paint players in my humble op.

Yo, Doc needs to give KG more playing time, he seems pretty fine to me.

Doc promised KG would get no more than 8 minutes each half n he has stuck to it religiously. He said being healthy come playoff is more important than seeding  and I guess he's right.

Rondo, I love you and your lay-ups are ill but you gotta learn how to shoot 3's, man. Also celtics players should stop being scared to shoot the ball, they be mad confused sometimes. Mikki moore. . .hmm, what can I say? I'd like to believe your word, jesoul but shit's getting crazy.

I don't think Rondo is an outside scorer. His forte is passing, driving down the lane, stealing and rebounding and that's a pretty good arsenal. We have Allen and House to terrorize teams from the perimeter.

  Yeah I hear you about Moore. That's why he's a bench player. He can't guard the likes of Howard and thankfully that's not what he was brought here for. He's here to guard Howards bench replacement and that I think he can do just fine, though he doesn't seem to be a great rebounder in spite of all that length.

mazaje:
does anyone else have a problem with a god having a "chosen people"?  i think most people would claim that it would be immoral for a parent to show favoritism toward one of his children over the others. but that is exactly what the biblegod does  and not only does he order his preferred children to kick his other children out of their lands for no reason at all he also orders them to exterminate many of their brothers and sisters in the process.

Mazaje in what basic definition and context does God refer to the Isrealites as His "chosen people"? Have you read the entire bible and how the story plays out?

God chose the Israelites not to show favoritism to them and them only, He chose them to use to bring about His purpose and plan for the whole world. God chose Israel as the means with which He would bring about salvation for the whole world. Please read the entire bible not just portions that butress your beef.

and if you read the NT you'll see who this "Israel" and "chosen people" really are:
Romans 9
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac
that your offspring will be reckoned." In other words, it is[u] not the natural children who are God's children[/u],
but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring

and who are these children of the promise? those who believe in Jesus and accept salvation.

  As he says in Hosea:
   "I will call them 'my people' who are not my people;
      and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one,"[i] 26and,
   "It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
      'You are not my people,'
   they will be called 'sons of the living God.'

If god decided to show favoritism to his "chosen people" and give them all the land(he sometime fail in delivering on his promise), why did he have to kill others to achieve his purpose?

Book, chapter and verses please?

he could have magically relocated the hebrew population to another portion of the earth and ensured that the geography would make it a land flowing with milk and honey by performing any act of divine intervention he chose or[b] he could have[/b] magically transported the people of the nations that he drove from their lands to another location on the planet.  with no bloodshed required at all, why all the bloodshed all because of land that the biblegod decided to give out to his "chosen people".

How dare God not choose to work out the magic the way Mazaje wants?

Rm9: One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

Discussed extensively here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-108212.0.html

Dude you're 2-3yrs late now

But it was an awesome, sad, moving & educative movie. I almost cried

bawomolo:
You can't handle Dwight howard and you wan handle Bynum. level dey

See this one . . . you're comparing bynum to Howard? wetin you dey smoke this early thursday? I didn't hear you smack on the Celtics when the 'handled' Howard 2wice this yr and quite easily few weeks ago in Orlando