₦airaland Forum

Logicbwoy:
no.... a moralist subjective

I'm only asking him so he'll state his position and not accuse anyone of misrepresentation.

If he is a subjectivist then he has no stance to judge the subjective views of others unreasonable or irrational. That is hypocrisy.

MrPresident1:
I have been reflecting on this thread, God Himself is the law because the law is the breathe that was breathed into Adam that made Adam a living being. God cannot exist outside His law because the law is His Spirit, His very essence, so God cannot be divorced from from what is inherent to Him, God trancends the law, He is the Law, and it is impossible for Him to sin.

The law was given to us to be kept by us for our own good, the whole essence of the law is to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart and soul and life and might, and to love your neighbour as thyself. God is love, He is the Law and the Law is Him, as it is written, the Word was God, and became flesh and we beheld His glory.

God is the Law.

I'm glad you've given this more thought and come to largely agree with the op(as I will show you).

I think I understand what you're trying to say, and I agree with it, but you make a slight flaw in explanation that makes you contradictory. Look at the bold.

God cannot exist outside the law because he is the Law, then he transcends the law? Does he transcend himself?


God is Law, but when it comes to us, his creation, he is not bound by the laws he has given for our various moral functions. That is because we are creation, and he is our author. He is not bound by our limits, and his actions are carried out in the context of his omniscience and all-pervading present. Our judgements cannot apply to one who transcends our realm.

God is accountable to himself.

Reyginus:
Your argument is not good enough. OP.

Does this mean you agree with the point of the op but you think his argument is not good enough to pass it across, or you have fault with the tenets themselves?

Kay17:
You mentioned God is an embodiment of Good but not all good because he is just as well. Does this imply Justice involves some form of necessary evil like communists combating reactionaries?

Now if Justice isn't a necessary evil, then it must be good and it would mean God being just, he is still good. Being good is obviously by consistently acting good. Acting good is being moral and subjecting oneself to a prevailing table of values or moral law. Which will be at variance with what the OP is saying.

The bolded os spot on. But let me explain further:

When I say God is not all good, he is also justice, I mean that being Just is also a nature of his character that you must acknowledge as well.

Look at it this way, when a judge condemns and sentences a criminal, he brings calamity upon the criminal. The criminal may consider this evil, but I the end, Justice is served, and that is ultimately good.

For God, being good is not consistently acting good, being good is who he is. His very nature. That also involves bringing justice to creation, justice brought about by himself.

God is not fulfilling a code of conduct, He is the very definition of that code. He is the standard of himself. He is Law.

thehomer:
You have tried explaining your aberrant thought processes and failed at defending your immoral God. You're talking about moral standards as if your immoral monster God is moral.

are you a moral subjectivist?

thehomer:
An absolute what?



What on earth are you on about?



You do realize that the twins thing is something different. If killing twins was considered evil by those doing the killing, why was it done? I hope that when you answer that question for yourself, you'll understand why I said cultural values were the basis for criminal laws.

homer, looks like I lost track of this.


What about the Nazis and their rule? Killing and imprisoning news was not considered evil or unreasonable by them.

Ah, age old thread. If Morality is dependent entirely on human opinion, then the strongest of us decides what is right or wrong. The one with the most powerful weapon becomes god

Kay17:
@joshthefirst

Don't you find it awkward that the foundation of your moral universe could alternately appear as it's destruction.

No. And that is because I do not find this appearance at all

In my understanding and examination of the nature and character of God, I find him an embodiment of goodness.

But note that God is not all good, he is also Justice. And by the basis of his way of salvation, he always takes sides.

To the children of Israel he was good, but not to the Egyptians who suffered plagues and had their children killed by the death-bringer

To the crossers of the red sea he was good, but he was not good to the men that drowned.


God is good, but he is also a consuming fire. He brings blessings, he also brings calamity. He does all in his perfect justice.

Not just that, but as this article explains, His rules, his moral laws, were created for us, not for himself. So it would be foolish of us with our myopic limits, to apply same moral laws to judge the character of God sparingly, looking to find faults in only actions and events we have problems with, and ignoring and rejecting the whole picture.


One main problem, is that although you do not believe God exists, you try to use logic disprove or tarnish his "imaginary" entity, you attack him like he exists, but[b](listen carefully now,) you do not come at him with the clear image of the magnanimity of his being. If you want to logically tackle God, then do it truthfully, even if you believe he is imaginary. Come at him, understanding you are coming at the eternal consciousness. The omnipotent, omnipresent, the omniscient. The one who knows the future of every life he takes, and every life he gives. The one who is able to give life again, after it has been taken away.
[/b]



(Note carefully every emphasis)

This is the source of all your problems. The blunder of the first commandment. Having a false image of God. An idol you think you can dance with or threaten or put on trial.

And most of the apologist's work is educating the charge bringer on the true motive of God's action and the true image and person of the supreme deity inferred from the very nature of universe.











PS:next time you and your folks bring up biblical allusions, also do good to see who is behind every action you judge.
I, (and many others I'm sure) am tired of going around in circles correcting ediotic flaws and misconceptions borne of dogmatic hatred, especially from plaetton.

OLAADEGBU:
Are you saying that the Holy Spirit does not chastise you when you go astray?

If he does, its is from a position of counsel, and comfort, to guide me to repentance. My own conscience is enough chastisement.

And you do know there's a difference between chastise and convict right?

plaetton:
No. I hit the nail on the head with what my post.

You see, Intelligent people have an indirect way of getting points across to each other.

I believe Someone told you much earlier that you have difficulty understanding simple things.
That's the truth.

The person for whom my post was addressed, understood the point I was communicating.

As for daft people, it's not my fault if they have difficulty in understanding simple things.

I'm not going to waste my time explaining how your post was a red herring as I am not your teacher.

Its already established that you have some difficulties in communication though, so I'm not surprised.

plaetton:
Cognitive dissonance would not allow to appreciate my point.

Perhaps you should tell why Odin is not the supreme law giver of the universe, or tell us the differences between Odin and your moral law giver.

Mayhaps you would realize you're going off tangent.

Gombs:
Kindly list out the job of the Holy Spirit, as Jesus told us in John 14:26 AMP




That is counsel... one of His jobs.



what now happens if i fornicates? He convicts me? ...Guess who is my defense counsel? Jesus... How canthese two be fighting on whether I am guilty or not? Jesus made us UNBLAMEABLE, because we have God's righteousness by Him... When I sin, bible says

1 John 2:1King James Version (KJV)
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. [size=18pt]And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:[/size]

His bloood speaks mercy, and the Father forgives, if we ask for forgiveness... but it's babes in Christ that sin willingly.. that's why John said "my little children".

How can the Holy Spirit convict God's children of sin after Jesus called us brethren already? How did we now become sinners, after we're born again?

The Holy Spirit CONVICTS THE WORLD of sin... not God's kids.



What you said above is His job too, HE bring us to repentance... not conviction.

I hope you understand these.. they are hard meat sha.... not for babes

Thank you abeg brother Gombs.


Can you imagine what anyone means when they say the Holy Spirit convicts christians?

Oboye!

To convict means to find and declare someone guilty!

After Jesus has rendered us blameless and holy and unreproveable in God's sight, how can the Spirit of God find us guilty once again?

Jesus said that the Spirit will not speak of himself, but he will speak whatsoever he hears Jesus say! He will glorify Jesus, and receive of Jesus to show unto us! Glory to God! (John 16:13-15)

Jesus has made us righteous, justified. He cannot speak conviction against his beloved, unless we cease to be his beloved.

Yo! OLA, vooks, muafrika2, be careful not to judge a matter out of context. Abeg.



The Holy Spirit is a comforter of Children of God, not their convicter, not their condemner.

He convicts THE WORLD, NOT THE BELOVED.


Be careful when you go around labelling people as false teachers or devils. Be very careful to understand scripture, and please be careful to listen adequately by the spirit to people before you judge their message. Abeg.

Joseph prince is a teacher full of the grace, power and word of God. His word, works, and testimony align with the scripture he teaches.

Pastor Chris is also a very anointed man of God.(his own no be here sef. He's a kingdom advancer, he has motivated similar men and they are using Gods power and influence to take the gospel to the ends of the earth, why will you come around and criticize people like that? Nawa o).

Listen to people like this and judge from the word what they say and your life would never remain the same. You'll be inspired by Gods love and become even more motivated to take the gospel everywhere you go.

Logicbwoy:
Seriously?

Is nairaland the only forum you use?

I forgot to add a smiley to that statement to showcase it as a joke

KingEbukasBlog:
And now we could articulate our own thoughts ? Why are we still theists . Even the smartest minds amongst us . Its more than the religion you know . And you talk like there is sanity in not having any belief in the existence of eternal conscious creator/intelligent designer .

https://www.nairaland.com/3031778/met-god-well-known-blasphemer

Unfortunately for him and his fancy bio, true non-belief only leads to insanity, meaninglessness, suicide, hopeless self gratification, militant violence.

plaetton:
.

If the belief in a God can and do make people better citizens of humanity, then sure , by all means, believe.

But, history has shown the opposite to be true.

An outlandish lie.

Very recent history has shown us the atrocities atheistic beliefs can rain on society. From the horrors of the atheist soviet state to the Nazi philosophy that resulted in the death of millions and suffering and psychological torture of millions more.


It is very noted that your strategy of mockery and ridicule and offense of religious people/beliefs was the same employed by stalin and his soviets in their militant communist atheism.

Unfortunately history proves that you can never truly win people to your side by persecution, both in the form of violence, or mockery and ridicule.

The funny comments have been streaming in lately

PastorAIO:
I have no idea whether it's worth arguing against or no, but I do know that it is a load of rubbish. Perhaps if someone found the rubbish vexing then it would be worth his while to argue against it in the hope that you'd stop making the inane shallow argument. Or then again perhaps one may just be arguing against it to while away the time and so it's value is recreational.

KingEbukasBlog:
You are against God

PastorAIO:
Can you make another daft statement that is even stupider than this one? If you can I'll give you a prize.

KingEbukasBlog:
You are against God

PastorAIO:
Are you suggesting that it gets stupider every time you mention it?

menesheh:
What an amazingly stupid comment. Say something as regards to the comment, no way but always looking for who to lure and kindle some kiddie argument with.

sorry abeg bros. No vex.

plaetton:
Lol@ sovereign law giver and very supreme judge of the entire universe.

THOR's father, Odin, comes to mind.

So, can we agree that Odin is that perfect and supreme law giver and judge of the universe ?

If no, kindly give your reasons.

lol. I thought you were above these kind of tactics. This is what I'll still expect from a naivé militant, not one of your eloquence and experience.

When an atheist is backed into a corner on the logical character of supreme deity he pulls the multi-religion multi-deity red herring from his dogmatic innards. It looks like they never outgrow this programmed reaction to superior logic, as even father plaetton is displaying it.

PastorAIO:
PastorAIO:
On what do you base your confidence on all the promises of your religious doctrines?

You claim that they were given to you by a being that is not bound by any moral boundaries. How then can you have trust in him?

why did you quote yourself na?

PastorAIO:
On what do you base your confidence on all the promises of your religious doctrines?

You claim that they were given to you by a being that is not bound by any moral boundaries. How then can you have trust in him?

How many times does he have to repeat that he is an embodiment of moral good. That he is not bound by any moral boundaries doesn't invalidate the character of his person.

thehomer:
My way of thinking has been examined and I can hold him to moral standards.

Your way of thinking has not been examined as you still think you can hold him to moral standards. I don't need to explain, as I enjoy the futile back and forth we've been having for some time now.

CoolUsername:
I make my modification process transparent to let people who may have already read my post know that a change has been made.

And that's why you're a nerd

Reyginus:
Said to have? Lol. From the booms you've read and other journals how did he really fight this corruption? By flogging people on the streets for not being on queue? By forcing marketers to sell at a particular price? By jailing a person with a new law for crime he committed before the new law? What really is corruption and what really did he fight?

Lol. Said to have o. Many people have many different views.

But here's an excerpt from Britannica

He took a tough stance on corruption: during his tenure, hundreds of politicians and business officials were tried and convicted or awaited trial on corruption-related charges.

MrPresident1:
You are just ignorant!

He went to the cross to fulfill the law, to cancel the law of death hovering on his wife, Israel. God died for Israel to fulfill the law that condemned her to death. 12 legions of angels to what end? and the purpose of his incarnation is eternally defeated? If he called angels to come and save him, isn't the purpose of his incarnation not defeated

He had a choice, but he subjected himself to the law, to die, that was his purpose!

He was subject to his own law!

He had to take upon himself, flesh, human flesh, to be subject to the law.

He became human, and became subject to the law, to redeem those that were under the law. Because of his love for them

This is not a contradiction. And God redeemed the whole world, and not just Israel, you buzugee fan.

MrPresident1:

Subjected himself to the law?

Do you realize that the premise of this thread is that God is not subject to his own laws?

You do not see your contradiction

There is no contradiction there, Jesus didn't come as almighty God, he came as a man

CoolUsername:
I know that we're usually on opposing sides of the argument but this is a very solid post!

That we are against each other in infinitely aggressive arguments does not mean we are against each other in progress bloda.

In the end, we want to see progress in this country all the same, whether I am a mighty tall christian like kingebukasblog or an athletic intellectual like johnydon22 or a little squirt atheist like Logicbwoy or a guarded feminist like kay17 or an old undecided man like plaetton or a troll like sonoflucifer.

Reyginus:
But then for some reasons some people Buhari is not corrupt when everyone who's ruled us is.

Buhari is said to have fought against corruption during his former military rule

MrPresident1:
Why did Jesus have to come and die? Why did he subject himself to the law

Who is Jesus Christ, isn't he God anymore

Jesus, became man, and subjected himself to the law, to save us men from the judgement of the law.

Muafrika2:
To understand God's laws we need to see Him as King. Not a president who is answerable to the people who elected him. He is not a chief with a counsel of elders advising Him. He is a Great King who owes nobody his authority.

The law of the land is His word. Disobedience is not even thinkable, let alone debatable. That is how kingdoms work. Our democracy is a culture of rebellion decorated with politically correct words that have even Christians fooled.

We think about spiritual laws with minds that have been baptized into the ideals of democracy and "civil liberties" which I believe are a joke. God is old fashioned. His wish is His law and His command is executed at its appointed time, by all means. And yes, even His own word is subject to His authority

I agree with the first paragraph of your post, but what do you imply by the bolded?

^^^^ I weep at the way our money is being chopped

Logicbwoy:
Am I seeing well?

Na johnydon talk this one or na joshthefirst?

someone's sarcasm meter is faulty