₦airaland Forum

wiegraf:
I am capable of certain computational functions a cat is incapable of, just as a cat is capable of certain functions I'm incapable of performing.

Hardware differences do not help, of course,

So your consciousnesses is limited to computational functions?


If you think all there is to the essence of consciousness is background information processing then you're very wrong.

This theory is crap, as the basic issues of human self awareness, quality, and even diversity in language and intelligence cannot and can never be explained by qualitative science, by definition.

“The hypothesis of modern science starts from matter as the basic reality, considering space to be an extension of the void. The phenomenon of creation of stable cosmic matter, therefore, goes beyond the scope of present science. The theory also neither pinpoints the source of cosmic energy that resides in the structure of matter, nor can it explain the cause of material properties that are experienced with the behavior of matter. These are, in brief, the limitations of modern scientific theories at the most basic level of the physical phenomena of nature. When a scientific theory cannot cope with the question of the very origin of the universal matter and energy, how could it ever grasp and explain the phenomenon of consciousness which is evident in living beings?” – Paramahamsa Tewari

Sonoflucifer I'm very sorry I have not had time and network to play live. Clinics have resumed. Ward rounds.

TheSixthsense is an encouragement that all my apologist activist work and that of others is not in vain

wiegraf:
http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/06/how-consciousness-evolved/485558/

So, there's a lot to take from there. However, can you now see how (and why) your intuition and instinct are trained in the background, without you being aware of it?

Well, that's basic knowledge; the brain doing a lot behind the scenes that you're consciously unaware of ie. It's nice to have the how's and why's in one simple theory though.

So, if I brought to you a theory like this one, inchoate as it is, you'd choose mumbojumbo over this? Why?

What's the difference between your consciousnesses and that of a cat?

OmaFresh:
honestli dat stuf 2 long, , ,let chk if i kan c d ansa

Its not too long naw. Always try to read as much as you can. It helps you gain knowledge and discipline, and prevents you from asking foolish questions after the op answers them.

OmaFresh:
av bin realy wantin 2 ask diz questn, , ,whu re hys descendant, , ,sm1 sed d gorilas re hys progeny

Did you attempt to read the op?

lepasharon:
Hmmm wow.

Don't take any male who doesn't value his nuts seriously

KingEbukasBlog:
Thanks bro for the invite . Not sure about the ban but I believe that the marriage counselling committee in churches should handle the aspect of family planning not really the pastors . Books regarding family planning should also be recommended for couples who are going into marriage .

The onus should not only be on the religious institution . We should start from the young ones in secondary schools , inculcate in them the need to engage in family planning .

The government could enforce a law like they did in China to control the number of children a married couple should have .

Any of the above three is an ideal solution to Nigeria's overpopulation problems . The third is the most effective

Isn't the bolded extremist?

Chinese social engineering left a lot of ghost humans to deal with. Cases should always be made for exceptions and mistakes.

OmaFresh:
xo whu re d descendantz of kain? , , ,humanz too?

smh

Redlyn:
I dont quite follow how in your consistent logical thinking "something" in the first sentence suddenly became God "a transcendent being". There's a leap in there that sounds more like faith rather than logic. Unless, god is being used strictly in the pantheist sense.

The leap is only in the sentence. The statement remains logically coherent.


And I don't define faith the same way you do.

On careful study the big bang theory is a likely assumption of the state of the origin of the universe based on consistent observation of its nature.

By 'state of the origin' I mean, a consistent guess of the initial nature of the universe and its original burst of time and space.

So unless we get new observations or our observations change entirely then it looks to stand as the most accurate projection.

^^^

Frankly, the only good I have seen in this new aso-rockers is their tackling of BH in the north, every other thing has been bad news or policies that are yet to yield fruit or persecution or excuses.

malvisguy212:
God’s repentance is not like man’s. I take that to
mean that God is not taken off guard by
unexpected turns of events like we are. He
knows all the future. (“Behold, the former things
have come to pass, and new things I now
declare; before they spring forth I tell you of
them,” Isaiah 42:9). Nor does God ever sin. So
his repentance is not owing to lack of foresight
nor to folly.
Rather, the repentance of God is his expression
of a different attitude and action about
something past or future ,not because events
have taken him off guard, but because events
make the expression of a different attitude
more fitting now than it would have been
earlier.

Astute.

johnydon22:
String theory is hoped and expected to give answers to that... Our probing should leave the macro-world and go deep into the micriscopic quantum world.

The most fundamental blocks of all can give us insights of how it all began

String theory is imaginative lore. Very imaginative and creative

senbonzakurakageyoshi:
Almost all the time I come here, I see an abundance of threads (basically arguments) between theists and atheists on the validity of their view points. After all is said and done, the validity of both is tied to the history of the sources - which is inexplicable by either party.

Quite a number of atheists believe existence as we know it today either came from the big bang or one of the other lesser known scientific explanations for reality and existence. But unfortunately Theists can nail them with the question - what caused the big bang? And what came before the big bang? That is a question that has gotten no satisfactory answer.

However, this does not mean the Theists have held the atheists to a checkmate, because the atheist have a counter-question of their own; if God created everything, then who created God? For us to have been designed, then our designer must have been pre-designed, in which case, who is God's designer? How can God be said to have created reality if he/she/it exists within the same reality? On this front too, no satisfactory answers have been provided, the usual answer being that we'll find out when we get to heaven or that it's God's will that we don't know his source, or that God's existence is beyond human comprehension.

In other words, a stalemate.

So is there really any need to keep arguing about who is right and who is wrong?

Personally I sometimes feel the almost unhealthy need to argue when people misinterpret my views, and insult my beliefs based on their very own foolishness in misinterpretation.

Like someone on this thread comparing the eternity of God to God popping out of nothing, and then going on to ask why he shouldn't believe the big bang popped out of nothing too. It is statements like those that draw me into sometimes(?) vain arguments with close-minded foolish people.


And for clarification, God did not pop out of nothing, there has never been nothing, because nothing cannot create something.(nice to see you after a long while davien).

Because something exists, something must have always existed. Something is causeless. This is a very basic logical inference for the entity of God based on the nature of our universe. This is not me trying to fill in any ediot gaps. Its me logically acknowledging the presence of a transcendent being based on consistent logical thinking. Simple.


Foolish men misinterpret this basic logic in various ways and go on to proffer meaninglessness and answerlessness in return. They evangelize their freedom of meaningless vehemently and yet take offense when I evangelize my answers.

This is unfortunately what I became in recent times, an angry apologist. I reacted to the ediotic insults and attacks on my beliefs in many threads here angrily. But I will refer to my original state of mind, and mostly ignore the insults while going on to defend and preach truth to those who are capable of listening.

frank317:
Very simple and on point.how millions of people fail to understand this is what I am yet to understand

Maybe you should consider the possibility that something may be wrong with you.

I pity every atheist I meet, especially those who fancy themselves cool and swag and free, like johny.

frank317:
Oh what a very dishonest post

lolzz. It looks like you and johny need schooling. You do not know the implication of your atheistic beliefs or their conclusions.

we stray through an
infinite nothing, with no up or down left
Lanterns must be lit in the morning hours and sacred games
invented to take the place of religious ceremony.
Finally, a universal madness would break
out when the truth of what mankind had done in
killing God dawned on us.

Friedrich Nietzsche (Nietzsche himself spent
the last thirteen years of his life in the darkness of
insanity, while his godly mother watched over him
by his bedside.)


I am a puny part of the great whole.
Yes; but all animals condemned to live,
All sentient things, born by the same stern law,
Suffer like me, and like me also die.
The vulture fastens on his timid prey,
And stabs with bloody beak the quivering limbs:
All’s well, it seems, for it. But in a while
An eagle tears the vulture into shreds;
The eagle is transfixed by shaft of man;
The man, prone in the dust of battlefield,
Mingling his blood with dying fellowmen,
Becomes
in turn the food of ravenous birds.
Thus the whole world in every member groans:
All born for torment and for mutual death.
And o’er this ghastly chaos you would say
The ills of each make up the good of all!
What blessedness! And as, with quaking voice,
Mortal and pitiful, ye cry, “All’s well,”
The universe belies you, and your heart
Refutes a hundred times your mind’s conceit. . . .
What is the verdict of the vastest mind?
Silence: the book of fate is closed to us
Man is a stranger to his own research;
He knows not whence he comes, nor whither goes.
Tormented atoms in a bed of mud,
Devoured by death, a mockery of fate.

Voltaire.

johnydon22:
No i think you are the one that need to be honest with yourself and realize that it is a sad pitiable and bleak existence to hold a belief that without something/someone your life is meaningless and lacks point.

it deserves pity

You are the person who gives meaning and point to your life in coincide with your choice...

Since your own meaning and point is dependent on something/someone else, then it is a sad pitiable existence



Pious deception and cognitive dissonance is at play again, actually the reverse is the case.

Holding a belief of a better paradise after here leaves you more bleak, makes this earth negligible and makes one more suicidal as it has been evidently shown in the millions of examples around where Such persons sacrifice themselves to attain a better place , as we have seen many times in staunch Christian/Muslim adherent, who sacrifice themselves for their beliefs because they think they are heading to a better place

That really is the complete mark of unparalleled insanity and self degradation

stop the lies.

There is more to life than the ropes of your beliefs, learn to see a life beyond that

This is quite foolish and contradictory if you as usual.

What meaning is there in an accidental worthless existence?

Have you heard of Foucault and Nietzsche and hemmingway?

One died of self gratification, the others of insanity and suicide. Chief atheists who came to real terms with the implications of their atheism.

You are the one who deserves pity, living a hopeless and futile existence

johnydon22:
As i said earlier, "meaning" is a child of "human mind" there is no direction or goal to natural manifestations.

So the point of "life" or "existence" how ever you put always will be a child of human mind, a human idea.

Your permission was not asked for before things became as there are, so obviously your idea of point, meaning is barely as relevant as you are in the cosmos.

Society is a collection of human interactions so it's meaning and point rest sorely in the definition of humans.

So what is your minds definition of purpose and meaning as an atheist? And how does this transcend your accidental existence and the futile short meaningless of your life?

I gave a good example with a plate of food, that a plate of food will eventually finish does not limit it's worth or value (which also are human ideas).

following this line of thought you probably should not eat that food at all since it eventually finishes.

the worth is not in the limit as a matter of fact limit ensures value (Gold is held higher than iron because it is of more limited deposition than iron)

So your mention of human discipline and asking for their point, their point lies within the "human society where in they are necessary"

the point in our varying professions as defined by human society is in the NOW of our existence not later.

the point of me being an athlete is in this Now if it was unneeded in the human society you wouldn't bother be one.

so the point of it is not in the assumptions of another life but in the eventuality of the one you have and where you are.

One who recognizes the limit of life and it's rare chance to me is the one that will value life more.

Now you talk about life being a 'rare chance'. Its obvious you're not being logical at all.

Does your life have intrinsic value and worth? As an atheist, you'd say no. So how do you value a life that is no greater life than that of a fly or goat? What's the point of your hard work when and art and athleticism when your life and the collective life of humanity is futile and has no real meaning or worth?

Only one who thinks and wishes for something greater will dispose the smaller, a typical example is the Extremist suicide bombers or Staunch religious adherents who would rather die than relinquish their beliefs all the while expecting a better place and reward.

That shows that belief in a better life than this actually is the idea can diminishes the meaning of life to the human mind (since meaning is a human idea)

No. Only one who looks for a better life will make the most of this one to ensure it. The suicide bomber is not a viable example as it is misplaced, the staunch religious adherent would rather die and wake to a glorious eternal future rather than relinquish his belief to live a purposeless and accidental existence that has no meaning or worth and is destined for annihilation.

I was hoping that i be shown how it was incorrect but i only get an emotional outpour.

Go through it again

You go through my response and show me how it was an emotional outpour. Smh.

[b] The assumption of an eternal life is actually the idea that makes this life
meaningless.

An unending life makes 100years look like nothing, how would one value
1naira when he thinks there is $100,000,000 waiting for him in an account.
so too can one not value the 100, 80 or less years of human existence in
contrast to 10000000000000000....years of a fantasy afterlife.

Unfortunately your flawed logic does not apply to the reality of human life and expectation. The real truth is that the power of an endless life is what makes life worth it. Look at those with too much money, the ones who throw it away in self gratification are those that believe you only live once. You cannot apply diminishing returns to human life. Concepts of the afterlife are not concepts of your very own purposeless and meaningless existence. We look to an eternity with meaning and purpose also. And a life of meaning and purpose is valued. An eternal life is not an eternity of accidental worthless nothing less for those who believe it.

So the "meaning" of life lies within the limits of life and that "meaning" is
rubbished by the concept of another unending life waiting somewhere else.[/b]

it so degrades the worth of the present life to a human mind that they willingly throw this life away in a chase and hope of getting another.

Once again you say 'throw this life away' as if this life has any meaning or worth to you. Lol.

For you, who believes life is an accidental purposeless existence, eternal life might be hell. But for those who believe in purpose and meaning, eternity would be endless advancement and peace and release from suffering.

This has been shown to be a dangerous fantasy in the examples of extremists who would throw this one chance at life away in a wishful hope of getting a better eternal one in paradise.

Only someone who holds such belief will find his life and existence so deplorable that is can be ended without a second thought because a glorious everlasting paradise awaits.

As it has been show nobody who think they have $1000000000 will ever value they #1 they actually have..

Once again, you contradict your atheistic yourself in stating that while our lives are no better than mosquitoes or flies they have some value. Do you believe life has value or not? How can an accidental futile existence have value?

Again, it is only when you believe in value and purpose in life than an eternal life of value and purpose will make sense. You can't make an unending life make sense to a man who believes in futility. Thats like condemning him to hell.

the sparks and glories of the paradise dwarfs that of the present world that people see this as doomed, marked for end, meaningless and wasteful.

such belief makes people view this life as meaningless and deplorable

Your labours in this life is for this life, if there are no "Money" in human societal dealings you wouldn't labour for one.

if there was no need for food you wouldn't labour for food, your labours in life are as a result of the needs of this life.

it is an abject greed to hope for double reward for the effects of actions carried out for your own needs.



One truth stands out that no matter how much you try to twist a simply fact and believe that twist, it never ceases to be Fact

Unfortunately as I have shown your fact is actually illogical nonsense.

What's the point of a labour in life when all including labour is futile? Your life is not worth more than a dead chicken, so what's the point of living?

Look at how the bold contradicts your position again. Or do you believe this life has any real meaning rather than what we make of it? Which is in fact meaningless?

You are an organism, a manifestation of biological interactions, you have no greater consciousness but rather greater Intellect as judged by human criteria.

Tell this to yourself and ask yourself how this statement makes your life more worthwhile than a mosquito's. This thinking takes meaning out of everything, especially this life.

a bird has the ability to build a nest so precisely, it requires a calculative mind, intellect and a good knowledge of geometry.

Every specie with the utilization of a nervous system has a "mind" only differs in their level of application as defined by need and Mechanisations.

So "Mind" changes nothing since all can boast of one.

Your emotions are no different from what every other specie out there feels.



Very greedy and selfish that you are not done with what you have already
wishing and clamoring for an unlimited one.



Here "Point" as i have mentioned before is firmly rooted as a product of human mind.. so my point of life always will be of my own idea and will not hold sway for every other specie out there.

None ever asked to be born neither will any ever be asked to be

My point of life as i have found myself in a human society is to blend as part of the society i have found myself in.

Partake in everything life provides, savor the joy, pain, tears, needs, adventure and social bond, family, friendship..

the point is as i have found myself in a life i didn't ask for, i'd ensure i am happy with in while it lasts

This truth holds sway for me as a child of my own idea and a point birthed from my own perception

A mosquito exist just as i do, so too does a tree saying which is more important will be on whose ground ?

Mine?

I am sure a mosquito will also show otherwise, it prizes it's own life more than yours that is why it doesn't mind hosting on you for survival even if it means you will die.

-Oh what makes me continue with this existence? its very simply, i didn't ask for it, i found myself in it and i found it very intriguing and interesting and i'd love to see it as much i can..

Family, social bonds, sex, study, food, science, social interactions, adventures, craze, truth, awe of things that are to be known and seen millions of reasons why i love to stay alive, lots of things that i have through the connections of their dots derived a meaning to my own life.
.................................

Unfortunately your life remains pointless, as your reason for living denotes you do not even believe your existence is actually accidental, and your art meaningless, and your study purposeless and human advancement ultimately futile. Do you believe life has intrinsic worth or value?

You should take your belief to its logical end and context, so you do not write these long contradictory posts for nothing.

so now my own questions

-Since there is a better place waiting for you infinite times greater and better than here, what exactly are you still doing here? why not go there immediately without delay?

the quality of my eventual eternal life is determined by this one. And I want to fulfil the purpose of this life before I enter the next.
Everyone who ends this life considers it to have no answers and to be without purpose for him. Is that not what you believe? Why not end this meaningless existence now? Or end it after indulging in meaningless self gratification for a few years?

- why waste your time over earthly wants since they end in earth and you transcend to a realm of needlessness and satisfaction.

As I have said, mh time on earth is not a waste, as I have [b]purpose]/b], neither will my life in eternity be meaningless, because of same purpose. Purpose gives worth to life's actions, and makes eternity worth living for and sacrifice and labour worth it. What is your purpose and how does it transcend your meaningless accidental existence?

-Is your own existence different from others and in what way is it judged and by whose standards?

-is your existence more meaningful than that of a star? a planet or asteroid out there or some small green plant in your backyard?

How?

-To what extent would life on earth or the universe have lasted before it becomes meaningful?

My existence is worthwhile because I have purpose given to me by my creator.

I have more value than a plant of course, I am a being with mind and self awareness.

Your last question doesn't make any sense as I believe life already has meaning, while you think you don't.

Time doesn't give life meaning, purpose does.

What is your purpose? If given an opportunity for eternal life would you not reach out anxiously to grab it?

thehomer:
What is a moral subjectivist?

someone who believes that right and wrong are only concepts of our various subjective views.

Immorttal:
The Bible taught you that right? Can you put your sense of discernment at work in place of passionate reliance in a book.

Your sense of discernment should show you that life is meaningless without God and Divine justice and immortality. One proof of God is that he is behind the very rationalé of living.

I'll reply Johnny in a bit, but I've had conversations like this before, and if you're honest with yourself you realize that your casting aside God will only with a futile, accidental and meaningless life.

Holding yourself to atheistic beliefs only leave you empty, suicidal, leaves grand atheists in a state of self gratification, insanity.

johnydon22:
Meaninglessness? ..lol.. when will you lot understand that "meaning" is a child of the human mind.

Nothing is more special than the other that idea or special attachment is subjective to distinct observers.

-Maybe because a plate of Rice and fried chicken finishes, it is not worth eating at all..

The worth of that plate of rice is not in it's ability not to finish but the fact that you got to eat it in the first place and it's limit makes it all the more valuable.

So too "life" on earth is not defined by it's limits. .

That you will die means you got to live, many will never die cus they never lived..

Does this mean nothing has any meaning? Including life? If this is true what is the point of life and society and existence?

Why are you an athlete and I a student doctor and frank a writer? What is the point of science and education and human advancement? When it all ends in futility? What is the point of love and hope for the future when we will all die in the end? Better to indulge in meaningless self gratification then? And commit suicide when meaningless life tires us.

The assumption of an eternal life is actually the idea that makes this life meaningless.

An unending life makes 100years look like nothing, how would one value 1naira when he thinks there is $100,000,000 waiting for him in an account.

so too can one not value the 100, 80 or less years of human existence in contrast to 10000000000000000....years of a fantasy afterlife.

So the "meaning" of life lies within the limits of life and that "meaning" is rubbished by the concept of another unending life waiting somewhere else.

In this case, the one who holds a belief of an eternal unending infinite life, is the one that makes this life to be meaningless..

Very incorrect and even unfortunate.


The knowledge and power of an afterlife is what makes this worth living well

Consciousness of immortality in a next life gives the present life meaning.
I know that my present love for music and my art and my love for people and even science and God is not futile, because of the promise of everlasting life where I will be rewarded for standing up to various challenges of this life, where mankind will be free to dominate creation forever.

Immortality doesn't make life futile, its promise makes life richer, gives life meaning, promises a reward for sacrifice, promises justice.

Very greedy and selfish that you are not done with what you have already wishing and clamoring for an unlimited one.

There are organisms that spend only 9 hours alive but yet in your ego you prize yourself as deserving another life ..

No. Very logical and promising that I know my labour in this life will not be in vain, and will be rewarded in the new one. Very hopeful and good that the suffering of this life will be eradicated in the next one. Very good that the injustice in this life will be dealt with in the next.

I am not merely an organism. I say I'm a being. I have a greater consciousness than a mosquito or a goat. I have 'mind'. That changes everything.


It is disconcerting that you would call one who seeks a greater and more blissful life of eternal fulfillment selfish and greedy.


What about you? What is the point of your life? How are you different from a mosquito or a fly? What makes you continue on in an accidental troublesome existence? I daresay hope is your answer, but tell me.

Kay17:
Depends on what you consider as terrorism. If you mean urban guerrilla warfare, I could agree. If you meant conventional warfare with the use of sophisticated weaponry, I'd agree. If you mean nuclear warfare similarly I will agree.

Every warfare and use of Violence is terrorism. As they are capable inspiring terror in any population. The State itself is a terrorist because it is a monopolist of terrorism.

?

What?

The state has the potential to monopolize terrorism or the state is a monopolist of terrorism?

@ op and johnydon22.

-What do you mean by live in the now? Do you mean live like a chimp? A mosquito? If death is the end, then how is life worth living? How do you break away from meaninglessness as an atheist?



-Why do you think the human mind is selfish and greedy when it recognizes and wishes for immortality? How is it greedy to live forever?