₦airaland Forum

shotster50:
@ Pleep and co

I am not advocating for any of the isms, but if I were given the choice, communism is definitely not possible in Nigeria, unless of course there is a major revolution to wipe the elite. Someone is asking for Nigeria to stop copying the west, What better solution do you proffer then? Capitalism has failed Nigeria, and so will your beloved communism if it were to be adopted , The idea of wealth equalisation as far as Nigeria is concerned, is simply stuff dreams are made of. You and I know that baring miracle i wont happen.

we are simply having a theoretical discussion. Communism will definitely never take root here.

pleep:
it seems to me, that people are not debating with me, but rather debating against communism. like i said earlier[b] i[/b] am not advocating pure communism. Does it not occur to you guys that when stalin and lenin etc siezed private property and tried to equalize wealth, communism was in its early stages? it has matured since then into what we see in China, Cuba and some of the socialist countries. Communist ideals have been tempered with capitalism, much like capitalism in the U.S has been tempered with "communist" ideals like medicare.
i hope you know that income disparity is the best indicator of the societal health of a country. . .
so China is "criminalizing hard working achevers" you prefer jungle justice? And you need to consider how capitalism is always abused. Think about the 1930's depression, the 1981 reccesion the 2007 reccesion the SAP that ruined the entire economy of a continent, the failing Euro-zone, Fiat currency, debt etc. . .

Recessions are part of the cycle. Its a result of an imperfect market and not to be feared. It is the natural cycle. Communism itself is artificial in trying to artificially fix prices instead of allowing demand to control the price itself.

pleep:
Let me say again, this is not about pure communism. Why is that when we talk about capitalism we bring up highly regulated liberal capitalism (like the U.S) but when communism is brought up we take it to the extreme?

There are no pure capitalsim nations, they have failed just like the communist ones did. Remember the great depression? that was caused by pure capitalism.

Places where liberal comunism has succeded are China, and the best example Cuba. You may think that Cuba is an awefull place but compare it to the rest of latin america the cubans live much better. The standard of living, and healthcare is better, the education and life expectancy is higher etc.

Why is China doing so much better than india? The answer is communism. India's democracy has bogged it down, While China's one party state has accelerated growth because they are able to make things happen without senseless beurocracy.

Nigeria is an example of where capitalsim is failing, we need to stop senselesly coping what people are doing in the west because our circumstances are too different. NIGERIA IS A RESOURCE BASED ECONOMY, most of our money comes from selling oil not the 'incentive' of the private sector, so redistrubing that wealth (not in the form of handouts) would improve the life on Nigerians thats a fact.
Once average ppl have access to money they can break the cycle of poverty and begin building bussinesses and creating jobs.

I would rather we ensure equality in other areas education, medical care, power etc and leave the wealth issue. Each man deserves the fruit of his labor and we should not reward laziness. Making everyone equal will result in everyone being equally miserable. period.

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=45152.msg8939919#msg8939919 date=1313541917]Yea, that's the perfect solution. As if some of our past politicians are/were immortal.

Thank God I'm out of that landfill called Nigeria.[/quote]for calling it a landfill, you will definitely need a visa to be allowed back in **angry red face**

Besides I see both 70's era capitalism and communism as necessary stages towards greater economic thought. They served their purpose then but its abundantly clear that a completely centrally planned economy doesnt work and a completely chaos-driven capitalist system is not attractive either. the solution is somewhere in the middle.

logica:
And what do you think happened in China? What do you think is going on in Scandinavian countries? Did you even read previous posts? It seems people are not aware that what goes on in Scandinavia with all of the welfare benefits are Communist/Socialists ideals. This even applies to the UK. Don't believe the hype.

The fact is, Communism failed in the USSR because the government was particularly vicious against its own people, and they also got drawn into a competition with the USA leading to unnecessary spending on weapons and other "Super Power" toys. Massive waste.

what happened in china was that they gave up and allowed private enterprise (anathema to communism). whats happening in scandinavia is that they practise a capitalist system with a mix of welfarism thrown in ( high taxation (up to 50% in sweden) with government owned common services)). But they still allow private enterprise and they dont expect the government to do all. The UK is not on this list. yes they are welfarist too but its poorly implemented.

Irrespective of the ideology implemented, our corrupt political class would still steal us blind.

The unanswered question: if communism is so good, why hasnt it worked elsewhere/anywhere?

The government and people of nigeria should simply focus on making laws that make people's lives happier

Point of Correction: Nigerian Political Appointees (with their consumption of 75% of recurrent expenditure) are a burden to the society.

francis247:
No country has fully achieved socialism let alone its highest state, communism. The society has & shall evolve from communalism to slavery to feudalism to capitalism to socialism and to communalism. Nigeria is yet to fully achieve feudalism (according to critics) let alone capitalism as we are yet to manufacture from start to finnish that which is needed to develop our economy. Nigeria, though better than most of its counterparts, is gradually underdeveloping. Our economy depends on buying and selling. Crude oil is exported, the proceeds are used to import 'the already manufactured' by capitalists nations; agriculture is dying, we are still importing rice, untill mechanized farming is given the necessary boost, unemployment rate reduced, (recent report released shows that about 100,000 Nigerians apply for visa to america weekly, not to mention other western countries; while they are developing we are underdeveloping) we'll remain in the realm of feudalism (farming with hoes and cutlass, eating from hand to mouth) far from capitalism let alone socialism, then communism.

we already passed the feudal stage( the Alaafins, Obas, Sultans and other feudal landowners with large armies). We are now firmly in the capitalist phase albeit a largely government-dependent capitalist economy/democracy.

geosegun:
"Beaf; the young man knows what he is talking about. Don't trust all these state geologist who have been idle for so many years.
Oil seep does not translate to commercial accumulation of crude oil.
We need to know the relative thickness of the sedimentary rock there.
at least Gravity/magnetic survey is required to do that since it is a virgin place or better still 2D seismic.
3D seismic is not necessary there.

Anyway i am not disputing the fact that there may be possibility of accumulation, but the chances are small.
Afterall a reservoir made up of weathered granitic rock as been reported and exploited in China (R. Selley 1998)

I wish Kwara state all the best. Ofcourse it will pay big time for me if its real . I don hammer be that
May it be so. Let somebody in the house chorus a very big AMEN

Amen & thanks. i was about pointing out that his source also stated that the oil seepage in Cuba was from a system of fissures. therefore the oil mostly migrated there with a few shales locally resident and covered over by igneous intrusions. Definitely not from the igneous material itself except in situations where it is weathered enough(like you rightly suggested) to be a suitable reservoir.

Obiagu1:
Well I've not fully weighed the pros and cons of such law but in a society where police brutality and unnecessary arrest is so high, such a sanctuary could provide a relief for the people. If an arrest warrant is produced, then the arrest could be effected.

They know their pain and they also know how the police operates in Imo State, so they feel it's good for them.

unfortunately, the police is not local to any state and the law cannot be applied unequally in different parts of the federation. What they feel about the police should be properly thrashed out through the media and in a court of law.

Not by creating refuges for criminals. This is not ancient israel.

nora544:
Communism will not work and all countries who have the communism at that time have big problems and look how many countries leave the comminism.

I come from a country what was very poor after the war but the people work and the government make there work, we have a good social system our schools are free also the univerities and we live good and we are one of the rich countries in the world now, our economy is better than the economic from USA.

I know a country we have a border to this country and i know what happen with this country how bad the economy was, they have the same problem after the war but this country was occupied from Russia and so they have the communism there and they want to change it 1955 but Russia didnot want it and so many people from this country leave.also when they know it could be dangerous. They have so many economic problems, and so many people from this country come to my country for work, and it will take time until they have the same economic than my country.

A minister from my country and the minister of this country make that the communism went away from most of the countries of east Europa they open the border and that was the start for better life in this countries.

USA is not that good and wounderfull country, i know that USA always look what could help them, they don't look at other countries, i know what they make with Iraq, with Afghanistan. First America give Sadam from Iraq money that he fight against the Iran and than when they feel the need the oil then they break with him.

My country also have troubles with America, when a man who was Secretary from the Uno, who help Arab countries and work against Israel, what happen to him when he wants to get president from my country, than America remember his past, why at that time and not before.

You will see so many poor people in America and only few are very rich the same than in Nigeria.

Nigeria should look at the countries in Europa not UK and America. How we make it here, what we make that the people have work, what we have for economy, there are only few countries look at this countries and Nigeria should make it in this way, the young people should work together and not speaking i am Yoruba or Ibo, or edo or Hausa, we are Nigerian like we say we are from, . In my country we have also different tribes but this is no problem we are ,
100 years ago we where the biggest country in Europa but every tribe want there own country so they break away and no since we have Europa union we belong together or they want to come to the Europa union.

I know Nigeria a little bit but when the people work together and and they work that they make that the name of Nigeria gets a better sound in the world and people work together than Nigeria could be the best country in Africa.

am guessing you are from austria and the other country is Hungary and the event you refer to was the Hungarian uprising in 1956 that was put down by Stalin's tanks. Thanks for providing needed experience.

Hertsnite:
I said sub-saharan black Africa, not Egypt, clearly ancient Egypt was more advanced than Europe at the time. The parts of Africa that did not come into contact with either Arab or European civilization were very much part of a much earlier late hunter-gatherer/very early agricultural societies that existed circa 8,000 years ago and had not changed much since. some African societies incorporated elements of later Iron culture, yet retained stone age aspects and still do today ( such as tribal scarification, voodoo, witchcraft, and animism).

There are disparities in the development of different sub-Saharan African cultures and societies, but by enlarge they had not got far beyond the very early Iron age.

Whatever the case was, the fact of the matter is that nowadays African countries are attempting to create a Western/European style society and aspire to imitate European/Western culture of today.

The very concept and notion of a modern nation-state as opposed to a tribal kingdom or a city-state is a European one. The African nation-states were carved out on a map during the congress of Berlin in 1882 by Western European powers. The concept of a collective national identity is a European one, The judiciary, The modern education system, the transport system, basic sanitation and drainage are all European imports to Africa.

The very concept of being Nigerian was created by Britain as opposed to Yoruba, Hausa or Igbo.

On behalf of the entire world, we say thank You

to the egyptians for inventing writing.

to the babylonians (remember iraq) for inventing libraries, codified legal systems, government-regulated commodity markets.

to the chinese for inventing Paper and the first printing presses(yes, took years for Gutenberg to catch up to the past), artillery weapons, the concept of merit-based civil service exams, paved roads, gunpowder.

to the indians for the number zero and much of our mathematics.

Great and powerful thanks to the arabs for preserving the lessons of science while European savages went through the dark ages. And also inventing algebra, geology(God bless ibn Sina better known to you european primitives as Avicenna), rules of mapping.

to the egyptians(black to the hilt), ethiopians, people of zimbabwe and the mysterious people who built sungbo's eredo (largest man-made
enclosure/moat discovered in 1999 near lagos) for building great monuments never rivalled by any of the germanic/barbarian races who never built anything more permanent than a rotting boat-like log of wood.

Lesson: You guys invented little and generally made the rest of the world miserable. well the old order is back. The two biggest economies in pre-christian times (India and china) are back and racing back to the top.

Your so technology has never really been yours. its simply advanced chinese-arabian-egyptian tech.And now, its ours.

Obiagu1:
Click on the link attached before you comment!

Under the law, several temporary legal sanctuaries had been developed and perfected because it is morally just and a good thing to do. For example, a suspect running from the law, who takes refuge in a church, at least temporarily, avoids arrest from the police. By running into a church, he or she triggers the legal sanctuary temporarily granted to the church. This means that the police, an executive arm of the government, may not barge into the church and arrest him. Instead, the police would summon the Priest or Pastor of the church and inform him of the arrest warrant. This triggers a negotiation whereby the Pastor or Priest persuades the suspect to give himself up on the grounds that the church will do everything to vigorously protect the suspects rights even including retaining a legal practitioner to ensure that the rights of the suspect is protected. This may take a day or two before the suspect is handed over to the police. Under our constitution there is a provision in the chapter on fundamental rights for the same type of temporary sanctuary granted by courts. A person who feels that his fundamental rights is in danger of imminent violation through an arrest may petition the court for the temporary sanctuary from this violation. The primary purpose of this legal tradition of temporary sanctuary is to avoid irreparable harm and to comport execution of our laws in accordance to justice.

I have been there and my opinion is the same.

Seconds count where crimes are concerned. So creating a structure that allows someone to potentially delay justice for 2 days is not sensible in my opinion.

This is the case already.

The police need a search warrant anywhere so there's no need to specially enshrine it in a new law. thats duplication.

This law would only turn churches into dens of crime. Besides it seeks to hamper the police ( good intentioned or not) and therefore deserves no respect.

MyJoe:
Lol. You must be a web designer.

Nope. Not any longer. I simply have a great affinity with them for other reasons. lol.

brainpulse:
For example when and Operating system is built round one function or application without flexibility to other applications , it fails and it becomes obsolete with time no matter the strength of technicalities of the OS.

Nigeria problem is not with the system but those operating the system. it is built by our leaders around theirselves.

Our leaders do not know any operating system of government they are just concerned with looting for there children, children's children and children children children, political fathers and fatherares, god and devil fathers etc.
Its disheartening.

Just curious, could u justify the above.

thats just dumb. The nigerian constitution does not grant immunity to any place. It only grants immunity to people.

Its stupid to try and create a refuge for criminals in a place of worship.

That law will only last 10 seconds if anyone commits any serious crime.

Rob a house and run into church, I support the police gunning down such a fella on the aisle if necessary.

Pure BS.

islamrules:
@Kodewrita,
Why this hating/bigot ? Read the news. The government is not illiterate as u are presenting urself. They called on state geologist and ministry of mineral resources to investigate. Are you saying you know more than them ?

Are you saying their result (after testing that substance) is fake ?

Scientists have confirmed it. What are you now saying ?

Na wa oo ?

Bigots sha

islamrules:
@kodewrita,
Go and test it and present your result to us on NL.

We shall be glad to receive it.

First things first, i am yoruba so there's no hating involved. If its true, its less than 100km from my place so all the best. However I still state that I find it hard to believe. I do have a right to my opinion.

Claiming the government has done its studies and verified presence of oil presupposes that nigerian state ministries recruit the best nigerians. That can be proved to be different from the true state of affairs.

You are free to be in love with one politician or the other. Thats your own cross to bear but simple facts will solve any argument.

Show us how the Kwara environment alone in the entire world has been able to do something that has never happened elsewhere: Producing oil from an igneous rock environment. Not even the russians who initially championed the inorganic origin of oil can accept this.

Yes you want oil there, but simple science doubts such an assertion.


CC. the others that are also expecting oil from the Nigerian chad basin side. You go wait tire.

@pleep if you could point the way in the direction of an american /european bank that will allow a nigeria-based nigerian like to take a loan, that would be helpful.

last time I checked, HSBC politely informed me they do not handle clients from my part of the world YET.

[quote author=E_force link=topic=735950.msg8927529#msg8927529 date=1313415990]No - Its a mafia state with jungle justice to back it up.[/quote]classic

donguutti:
communism in Nigeria would be very difficult to achieve, firstly would all of us be willing to give most of our private property for the "GREATER GOOD", secondly how do u go abt convincing the the masses that's its for thier own good,e.g how would u tell the onion farmer in plateau/bauchi, the cocoa farner ,that all he produces would be owned by government.

To bring it closer, how would we tell Seun, "em bros this ya forum(NL) na the property of the proletariat(public), not his, how would he react to it.it would be very difficult , if anyone know how to do these simple thing please explain, and i would gladly join the nearest local Politburo .

No way to implement it without killing lots of people and creating general unhappiness. No point to it.

a rebuttal:

http://petinagappah..com

If its close to Oyo as islamrules claimed then its most likely bitumen.

But i still find this story hard to believe. Oil in the Basement complex? Igneous rock producing oil? Even if there's any there, it must have migrated there somehow and will definitely not be in commercial quantities.

Trust nigerians to create hype over something so trivial or unconfirmed news.

Please name one functioning country that has run communism successfully.

North Korea--Complete failure. surviving on food stamps from china, south korea and the US. Also selling weapons to miscreants.
Cuba--Existed on Soviet funds for a long time. Still deeply indebted to Russia (though not usually mentioned).
USSR-- what? LMAO.
China-- "To be rich is glorious". Mao would be ashamed to see the modern China.
Vietnam-- communist in name. just like china, its essentially a capitalist dictatorship.
Yugoslavia--see USSR above.
East Germany--Merged into West germany and generally dragging down German economy.
Libya-- touche.
Mozambique-- capitulated. Now deeply capitalist.
Byellorusia--Capitalist democracy
Romania, Hungary etc---Deeply capitalist. Failures all of them.

Yet you want us to take on a system whose very nature detests the entrepreneurialism thats the core of nigerian life. God help you if you dont fill your farm quota. Besides web designers will only be paid according to effort not the going market rate that truly values their expertise.

Yewe2011:
then your probably either misinformed or un-educated on theology and the history of religion.

You dont need a college degree to worship God.

pendo89:
op trying am trying to understand this question of yours.

1.Responsibility is not about age.

At 10 yrs I could handle responsibility (ref.to domestics ie cleaning,cooking,washing etc) without supervision at all.
(thnk God 4 boarding).
But I was not mature so my interest around that age was playing kiddish games and everything a 10 yr old does.

But when I finished studying and got a job my interests and talk changed.
I developed a desire to want to improve myself and build my future not waste time partying with friends.
I was no longer a 'responsible kid' but a 'mature' individual with 'real life' responsibilities and maturity helped me handle the responsibilities better.

In summary responsibility is not determined by age. At 28 you could be very irresponsible than a 13 year old.
When you mature all round ie emotionally,physically,psychologicaly then your interests automatically change.
You let go off kiddish/teenage stuff and act your age.You take on responsibilities with maturity.

How do I know you are matured? I look at the things that interest you. Not your age!

so your question should be 'How to act mature at 28'. Then responsibilities fall under that title.

Guess am not allowed to repeat my p____sal.

[quote author=i_want_to link=topic=735249.msg8919716#msg8919716 date=1313317558]Why is it that all the Nigerians caught are Yorubas? I was expecting to see Igbos as they like money more.[/quote]peckham is a mini-lagos, lotsa yoruba dudes.

Reselling gadgets.

Bulk distribution of GSM credits.

He might gain some IT certifications (tho that will be hard since you said he struggled to graduate).

Start a mini-cafe with 5 pcs and make money.

Or better he should simply accept that he is a graduate and nothing more, forget which course he studied and simply look for the fastest moving business around (selling cars, real estate agent) and start moving.


Essentially, he should focus on starting something and not try to get a job which would be quite hard. Any "middleman"-type jobs will also be useful.

Some ideas I have found helpful:

==>List out all your age mates and stuff they've done. List out your achievements since birth. Compare.

==>Find God.

==>Get a job doing something.

==>Get your own house/apartment. Part of being an adult is paying bills and learning the reasons for all those rules you grew up with. Waking up in a pile of your own clothes is one of the top ways to bring it home to you that houses NEED TO BE CLEAN.

==>Create a few simple rules and follow them within your newly created territory. (Nothing on the floor. Clean stuff immediately. Cook every night. Delay all purchases by a day at least.)

==>Separate yourself from your very helpful relatives and do stuff on your own. Tackle stuff . Essentially develop a spine.

==>Learn to cook. Start with frying. its easy. move on to boiling stuff later. Stews too.

==>Introduce yourself as Mr X not just X and keep altering your behaviour until that introduction sounds less fake.

==>Aim for Respect.

==> Save at least a 6-month salary equivalent. Not because people say its cool but somehow it adds to your mental swagger and calms you down in ways you cant imagine.

==>Find a mentor. Find some older guy who can criticise and advise you. Dont take everything they say though but at least have someone smarter to talk to.

just my 2 kobo,

methinks the attention killed the romance.

just trying to keep the thread up. am interested in this.

So simply because the Igbo sit in shops in public all day long makes them more numerous than the yorubas on the farms and highways and offices. interesting logic.

tEsLim:
West Africans are religious because of POVERTY! Thats all , and generally people are religious for funny reasons. Liberate yourself Africans


According to a study carried out by professor of sociology at Pitzer College, Phil Zuckerman "levels of religiosity and creationism tend to decline as income levels rise , "

am definitely not poor and I am still religious. Find another excuse.

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=733588.msg8909350#msg8909350 date=1313162956]100% wrong.

you're confusing real life with nollywood.[/quote]I grew up in the southwest. My church was half-Igbo, half-Yoruba. same for my neighbourhood (well less Igbo anyway). But they bought land, married local girls, started businesses and lived fulfilling lives. Any insults or jeers are just from the sociopathic fringe present in any society. Of course, you dont expect to become a chairman or something similar there but everything else is yours for the taking (tongue in cheek). And they are always excited when non-Africans speak their language fluently. A missionary priest made that mistake and his house almost became a barn with the quantity of free yams he got.