₦airaland Forum

Gamine:
@KunleOshob

because i dont understand a language, will i call it gibberish?
most likely i would. Are you to dictate what God understands?
True.

Whilst i believe that speaking in other languages [some people call it speaking in tongues] is a gift of the spirit it is my opinion that 99% of those who practise it are actually faking it as there is nothing spectacular in what they claim they are doing and it is certainly no gift of the spirit. Besides the "speaking in tongues" that happens today does not conform to the biblical standard of there being an intepreter who can interprete what is being said in tongues [other languages] You may wish to rea the first book of corintians chapter 14 it sheds a lot of light on this tongue speaking issue.

1 Corinthians 14
Tongues and Prophecy
1 Let love be your highest goal ! But you should also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives—especially the ability to prophesy. 2 For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. 3 But one who prophesies strengthens others, encourages them, and comforts them. 4 A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

5 I wish you could all speak in tongues, but even more I wish you could all prophesy. For prophecy is greater than speaking in tongues, unless someone interprets what you are saying so that the whole church will be strengthened.

6 Dear brothers and sisters, if I should come to you speaking in an unknown language, how would that help you? But if I bring you a revelation or some special knowledge or prophecy or teaching, that will be helpful. 7 Even lifeless instruments like the flute or the harp must play the notes clearly, or no one will recognize the melody. 8 And if the bugler doesn’t sound a clear call, how will the soldiers know they are being called to battle?

9 It’s the same for you. If you speak to people in words they don’t understand, how will they know what you are saying? You might as well be talking into empty space.

10 There are many different languages in the world, and every language has meaning. 11 But if I don’t understand a language, I will be a foreigner to someone who speaks it, and the one who speaks it will be a foreigner to me. 12 And the same is true for you. Since you are so eager to have the special abilities the Spirit gives, seek those that will strengthen the whole church.

13 So anyone who speaks in tongues should pray also for the ability to interpret what has been said. 14 For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don’t understand what I am saying.

15 Well then, what shall I do? I will pray in the spirit, and I will also pray in words I understand. I will sing in the spirit, and I will also sing in words I understand. 16 For if you praise God only in the spirit, how can those who don’t understand you praise God along with you? How can they join you in giving thanks when they don’t understand what you are saying? 17 You will be giving thanks very well, but it won’t strengthen the people who hear you.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than any of you. 19 But in a church meeting I would rather speak five understandable words to help others than ten thousand words in an unknown language.

20 Dear brothers and sisters, don’t be childish in your understanding of these things. Be innocent as babies when it comes to evil, but be mature in understanding matters of this kind. 21 It is written in the Scriptures:

“I will speak to my own people
through strange languages
and through the lips of foreigners.
But even then, they will not listen to me,”
says the Lord.

22 So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers. 23 Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy. 24 But if all of you are prophesying, and unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your meeting, they will be convicted of sin and judged by what you say. 25 As they listen, their secret thoughts will be exposed, and they will fall to their knees and worship God, declaring, “God is truly here among you.”

A Call to Orderly Worship
26 Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you.

27 No more than two or three should speak in tongues. They must speak one at a time, and someone must interpret what they say. 28 But if no one is present who can interpret, they must be silent in your church meeting and speak in tongues to God privately.

29 Let two or three people prophesy, and let the others evaluate what is said. 30 But if someone is prophesying and another person receives a revelation from the Lord, the one who is speaking must stop. 31 In this way, all who prophesy will have a turn to speak, one after the other, so that everyone will learn and be encouraged. 32 Remember that people who prophesy are in control of their spirit and can take turns. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace, as in all the meetings of God’s holy people.

34 Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says. 35 If they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in church meetings.

36 Or do you think God’s word originated with you Corinthians? Are you the only ones to whom it was given? 37 If you claim to be a prophet or think you are spiritual, you should recognize that what I am saying is a command from the Lord himself. 38 But if you do not recognize this, you yourself will not be recognized.

39 So, my dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don’t forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But be sure that everything is done properly and in order.

Annunaki:
Well I know pastor agbaje cannot reject a ten thousand naira bribe, even his oga and oga and mentor[pastor oyakhilome] could not reject stolen money from sheraton hotel.

Snowwy:
Hello all, Matt23:23 says in the easy to read version:
'it will be bad for you teachers of the law & pharisees. You are hypocrites. You give God one tenth of everything U own-even your mint, dill & cummin. But you dont obey the really important teachings of the law-being fair, showing mercy, being faithful. These are the things you should do. And you SHOULD also continue to do those other things'.
Pls what are THOSE OTHER THINGS Jesus was talking about? Tithe paying is just a part of obeying the law. But tithes is part of the new testament. I guess this should end these arguments.

It doesn't end any argument, you are obviously not a regular on this forum neither did you bother to read the thread properly before commenting else you would know that matthew 23:23 as been discussed here and the conculsion was thus: Jesus was addressing the pharisees in that verse, the pharisees at that time were under the jewish laws and are such they were under obligation to tithe[ as tithing was a part of the law]. However christians were never at any time brought under the Jewish laws as such christians are under no obligation to adopt this jewish ritual. Also note that what the pharisees were tithing was mint and cumin [agricultural produce] not shekels [money] as our pastors have now twisted it to mean. Also note that the apostles were the ones commisioned by christ to establish christianity and they never for once taught anything as regards tithing in all their teachings, they taught free will offerings to be determined by the give himself. They also warned against those who were trying to introduce jewish practises [tithes is an example of jewish practise] into christianity as they made it clear a lot of this rituals were not necessary under the dispensation of lord Jesus christ. Read Acts 15 to know what the apostles agreed was neccessary for believers to observe. Tithing is conspiciously absent

Mr Agbaje, we have consistently taught you on this forum that the gospel of christ has absolutely nothing to do with material prosperity here on earth, the gopsel is the gospel of the kingdom of God were Jesus promised to prepare mansions [wealth/prosperity] for those who beleive and do his will in the after life. It is NOT about prosperity in this life. The verse you quoted to support material prosperity do not support it rather they are talking about spiritual prosperity [soul prospering] and good health. Besides the 3 john 1:2 scripture you quoted is not a promise from God but rather a prayer by John for believers and he was not even praying for material prosperity. If you are in doubt check that passage from other versions of he bible or get a good concordance to get the proper interpretation of that verse.

Please note that i have not said that there is anything wrong with material prosperity which most of us desire but the gospel of christ should not be twisted to say what it is not saying as you could be in danger of leading believers away from the path of salvation [narrow road] to the path of destruction [broad road] which every body would like to take. It is good for peple to prosper materially but they must also use their material possesions to bless others as God directed also the glorious gospel of the our lord Jesus christ should not be polluted with our lust/ greed of worldly material riches which was of little consequence to our redeemer.

When properly translated the word translated to mean tongues in the KJV simply means "other languages" based on this mis-translation pentecostals decided to create a ritual around the concept due to their usual lack of understanding of scriptures and the mis-placed zeal in trying to be "christians" . If you read from other translation which simply says "other languages" you would realize the pentecostals are merely talking gibberish cos what they are speaking cannot be interpreted into other languages as the bible demands neither can it be spiritually discerned.


_{PS: I would like to confess that i speak in tongues whenever i am watching a soccer match and my team scores or misses a goal it just happens spontaneously without me making any effort}

Pastor tonye were have you been? Where were you when your partner in crime Pastor Agbaje was being exposed and given a thorough dressing down, you should have been around to at least give him some unscriptural/ twisted back ups the heat on him was soo much that he had to harrass the moderators to give him some respite, but i am sure he has learnta lesson or two now.

To your question, the problem is that most baby christians like you tend to spiritualize everything you read in the bible which should not always be the case. You have to read each scripture within the context it is siituated. Proverbs for one is just a collection of wise sayings mostly written by King Solomon and most of what is written there are not necessarily spiritual or instructions from God. Once you get the context within Solomon was writing the passage you would begin to get a clearer picture. As the name of the book implies [proverbs] the scripture you quoted is merely a proverb which would be best understood within the cultural setting of the people that used the proverb. For instance a yoruba proverb might loose it's meaning if translated to english and even if it doesn't an english man might not understand tit even after translation cos he is not familiar with the culture the proverb emanated from. Hope this helps

1st fruit+tithe= mugun

Considering that our Very own Pastor Joseph Agbaje of the nairaland fame might soon be a pastor to the family of the president [if Goodluck is sworn in] i would have to in anticipation name him my Favourite popular pastor cos i know with the way he is going and his gift of twisting scriptures and backing of the "first" family [plenty of tithes and seed sowing] he would soon have enough funds to breakaway from chris oyakhilome's business empire and start his own popular movement church

banom:
I am cool man, I came back and went to my home town, doing every thing possible to make sure[b] Soludo is elected Governor next week[/b].

thanks dude, we are busy doing a lot to make sure Anambra gets the change we have been praying for.

Glad to read you are supporting Soludo, he is a personal hero and role model to me. May he find favour in the sight of God as he apsires to lead Anambra state to becoming a model state.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=385781.msg5388223#msg5388223 date=1264496091]This pastor agbaje don fuckkl up big time. . . .now you see why pastor chris doesn't talk to the media coz he'll be exposed like this.

Pastor jogbaje hope you've learnt your lesson.[/quote]Pastor Chris is a seasoned con man and would not make this kind of blunder, Pastor Agbaje is still young and inexperienced in the business hence the youthful exuberance and over zealouness. I have no doubt in my mind now that he would have learnt a lot on nairaland and his eyes would have been open to all the heinous crimes going on their organization in the name of god.

Pastor Agabje, it is not too late to repent and give your life to christ. The bible says that there is great joy in heaven when a sinner repents of his evil ways and turns to God. I pray that heaven rejoices on your behalf today. You can also seize this opportunity to preach to the other scammers pastors in CEC plc to repent from their evil ways and turn to christ. I believe God brought you to nairaland for a purpose; take that decision today. May God bless you as you repent from your old ways and turn a new leaf to serve him. Amen  

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven

It simply means that not all professing "christians" shall enter the kingdom of heaven. But then there is a caveat which Jesus said "but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven" This question goes to the very root of christian doctrine and the way churches are preaching the gospel today. They preach you just just "believe" in Jesus and your salvation is guaranteed. However as the above scripture imply, this is totally contrary to the teachings of Jesus as the way to get to heaven. He made it clear that it is he that does the will of his father. What then is the will of his father? In that same passage Jesus made this clear in verse 12 what the will of his father is which is also termed the "greatest commandment" it goes as follows: Matthew 7:12: “Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets. This teaching in mine opinion is the practical term of the teaching of christ which says we should "love our neighbours as we love our selves" In essence what i believe Jesus is emphaiszing in his statementthat it is more important to believe in his teachings and practicalize them than to believe he is lord contrary to the teachings we receive most churches today. The belief Jesus taught in the bible was belief in his teachings as a means to eternal life and not belief in his person.


Matthew 7:21:

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Pastor AIO:
Abeg no go drive the guy. He has suddenly made NL 3 times as sweet. I was a bit scared yesterday that he might have run away. I beg let us be encouraging him to post more.

I no fit drive am, since he came to nairaland to entertain us NL has become 3 times as sweet i won't won't be the one to deny us of the comic relief he has been providing us with since he joined the forum.

AAAHHHH!!!!!!!! Pastor agbaje, this is were you came to hide your humilated self   anyway you still have plenty of issues unaddressed in the other thread you created we are eagerly waiting for you there as some of us need to pay our tithes and first fruit   _{remember salaries are being paid this week}  

Anway to address your post, why don't you define "soul" and "spirit' first? from my experience most people can't seem to differentiate between the two.

[quote author=rich_john link=topic=385781.msg5387832#msg5387832 date=1264491398]Pastor Chris should sack this guy, he has brought reproach to his business empire!
@Joagbaje
Who is now a fool I dat wasn't deceived or your 'crook' members that tried fooling me! Dem wan chop my money dem come send fine girl to come dey visit me with 'RHAPSODY OF BULLSHIT'. As I said earlier crook no fit deceive crook, and what do you know about the bible you are quoting? look crooks full our family line many are 'pastors' they call me daily to come and join them am not just interested. Keep your bible quotations to yourselves am not interested in your 'ministry of deceit & deception' So many questions your bible can't answer.

@topic
Its ABSOLUTELY PROPER to label a 'pastor' crook as CROOK. gbam [/quote]   

Dem no go kill me for this nairaland  actually Pastor Agbaje might in in deep shi.t for this blunder he has commited on this forum since his Oga is aware of that his scams are constantly being exposed on nairaland and he peeks in  from time to time to see what is being written about his business concerns. Given pastor Agbaje's very poor and unimpressive performance here Pastor chris might just sack him or send him to a less lucrative branch in the creeks of the Niger delta. I hope he doesn't get kidnapped by militants though as pastor chris being a very stingy man might not be inclined to pay his ransome. 

@Pastor Joseph Agbaje
You've suddenly gone very quiet, why now?     

@Topic
That is the exact reason why they don't want him to "act". As acting president, if he decideds to run he would have the power of incumbency [which is very real in naija] plus unlimited access to the national treasury to finance his war chest in the 2011 elections. As we all know politics in naija is about who has more money to spend. That is apart from the fact the the northerners know they don't have one single credible candidate that would be allowed to run. [that is apart form el-rufai and nuhu ribadu that have been hounded into exile by their kinsman]

toneyb:
According to the same book of Matthew(26:63-64) Jesus promised a high priest called Caiaphas and those around him that they will see him come in the clouds of the heavens during their life time. Almost two thousand years have passed since Caiaphas has no longer been alive and still no return of Jesus. Verdict = FAIL!!

It was never recored that it would be in their life time as Jesus always made it clear that"no one knows the hour or the time not even him except his father in heaven". The term used in that verse you quote was the word "future" which doesn't necessarily mean it would be in their lifetime. As the good book says a thousand years is like but a day in the sigt of God. God is not bound by time.

jagunlabi:
The biblical "God" is making a spectacular comeback.Plans are on the burner, as we speak, to bring back "GOD" into our faces in the most spectacular way imaginable, fit for the 21st century.High Tech and all. . . Keep your eyes fixed in the skies and get your popcorns ready . . .

He is surely coming back, probably sooner than you think

Matthew 24:30-31:

30 And then at last, the sign that the Son of Man is coming will appear in the heavens, and there will be deep mourning among all the peoples of the earth. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with the mighty blast of a trumpet, and they will gather his chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven.

[quote author=Aloy.Emeka link=topic=377248.msg5264777#msg5264777 date=1262841999]https://i45.tinypic.com/2e5tmgw.jpg

Fashola and Tinubu are supposed to be muslims. What are they doing around most high Adeboye?. Make holy Ghost fire no burn themoo.[/quote]Imagine qualifying an ordinary man with the same terminology with which God is described Are you sure it is God you worship at all or men parading themselves as gods of men.

debosky:
I have received a number of reports from Joe Agbaje regarding this thread.

I cannot claim to fully understand what is going on here as I haven't gone through the details.

All I will say is this - any focus on the person of Joe Agbaje should be reserved for another thread.

In that regard, I am inclined to delete the references to his alleged 'exposure' - can the posters please edit their posts and open a separate thread for that purpose?

Thanks.

In that case i would be constrained to start a fresh thread and deal with agabje's status we can't allow in to continue to 419 [deceiving us by false pretence] us on this forum.

@Pastor abgaje
agbaya you are not even ashamed of yourself [considering your old age] going to report to moderator cause your true identity has been exposed. I never knew you were ashamed of your profession, if i had known maybe i wouldn't have exposed you

Joagbaje:
The thread has a focus.whenever KunleOshob and his disciples get stuck, they get into irrelivances, and abuses. which doesnt desrve a response .

The allegation is absolutely relevant to the thread as you are an interested party [a pastor] one of those being accused of being a crook. You are trying to play neutral here and mis-represent facts issues on this forum there fore it is quite necessary for your status to be known and people would know from which stand point you are posting. People would also understanding why you have a passion and a zeal to twist the scriptures for the sake of filthy lucre. It is becos of pastors like you and your mentors that pastors are labelled crooks. Yes i agree not all pastors are crooks but pastors that subscribe to the type of false gospel [prosperity gospel] which you preach are most definitely crooks.  

I sincerely weep for Pastor Joseph Agbaje and the unfortunate flock that he "pastors", he is not only deluded himself but he feeds his flock poison from the very pits of hell prepared by the devil himself. A lots of families are being destroyed by false teachers such as him all beocs of their greed for filthy lucre. The worst thing is that he is robbing these innocent souls of their salvation through his heretic and evil teachings

Titus 1:11-16:
11 These false teachers [agabje & co] must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money. 12 Even one of their own men, a prophet from Crete, has said about them, “The people of Crete are all liars, cruel animals, and lazy gluttons.” 13 This is true. So reprimand them sternly to make them strong in the faith. 14 They must stop listening to Jewish myths and the commands of people who have turned away from the truth.
15 Everything is pure to those whose hearts are pure. But nothing is pure to those who are corrupt and unbelieving, because their minds and consciences are corrupted. 16 Such people claim they know God, but they deny him by the way they live. They are detestable and disobedient, worthless for doing anything good.


Agbaje all you writings and submissions deny Jesus and his true gospel even though you claim to know him your heart is corrupt as evidenced in you willful and constant twisting of the scriptures just becos of money. You are truly a disgrace to the true christian faith.

True and genuine men of God in the bible were not only warned against the love of money, not liking money was one of the criteria for becoming a leader in the church as we can see in the scriptures below:

1 Timothy 3:2-3:
2Now a bishop (superintendent, overseer) must give no grounds for accusation but must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, circumspect and temperate and self-controlled; [he must be] sensible and well behaved and dignified and lead an orderly (disciplined) life; [he must be] hospitable [showing love for and being a friend to the believers, especially strangers or foreigners, and be] a capable and qualified teacher,
   3Not given to wine, not combative but gentle and considerate, not quarrelsome but forbearing and peaceable, and not a lover of money [insatiable for wealth and ready to obtain it by questionable means].

1 Timothy 6:10-11:
10For the love of money is a root of all evils; it is through this craving that some have been led astray and have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves through with many acute [mental] pangs.
   11But as for you, O man of God, flee from all these things; aim at and pursue righteousness (right standing with God and true goodness), godliness (which is the loving fear of God and being Christlike), faith, love, steadfastness (patience), and gentleness of heart.

Pastor AIO:
This is worthy of it's own thread.

I actually thought of creating a new thread for the expose but i don't think the charlatan is worth creating a thread for. Now we really know him for who he is and why he is sooo much in support of pastors fleecing the flock. That apart he was trained by crook oyakhilome another veteran in the art of scriptural manipulation and extorting money from the sheeple.

[size=20pt]Pastor Joe Agbaje exposed[/size]

Despite his creating the impression that he is not a pastor but rather a believer who gives generously to the "ministry" i can now confirm to us all that this charlatan is a pastor which the highly discredited and ignomious organization called believers world PLC also known as christ embassy whose sole aim is to fleece the flock and conduct arrangee miracles. The article below provides the evidence:

[size=16pt]Goodluck Jonathan Buries Cousin       [/size]
Written by Adeleke Afolayan    
Saturday, 26 July 2008  
Vice President Goodluck Jonathan months after laying his father to rest was back in his hometown Otuoke in Ogbia Local Government of Bayelsa State to bury his paternal cousin Mrs. Harriet Agbalayam Digha.

Speaking at the burial, he described her as an amiable and friendly person whom he had a very close relationship with since his father and her mother were the only children of their parents.

Officiating Pastor at the interment, Pastor Joe Agbaje of the Christ Embassy Church in Yenagoa said Mrs. Digha was a devout Christian who cared for those around her, urging others to make an example of her.

The ceremony was attended by the Vice President's wife Dame Patience Jonathan, Deputy Bayelsa State Governor Hon. Peremebowei Ebebi, Speaker of the State House of Assembly among other dignitaries.

So guys you really can't blame the crook man he is only trying to defend his source of income filthy lucre. He is also lucky enough to be pastoring members of the vice president's family i trust he would have fleeced them properly by now   By the time goodluck is named president pastor Agbaje go hammer O! He would probably abandon Oyakhilome and go and establish his own church business and he would claim that God called him to start his own church franchise 

Source : http://www.mynaijanews.com/content/view/1862/232/

Dis agbaje man makes me sick ith the way he willfully twists scripture just for the sake of greed!!! 

Joagbaje:
The church primary call is to make disciples. James was not a  standard for the church. he was a religious man. mixing christianity with judaism.

On the contrary it is criminally motivated preachers who preach tithes, first fruit and seed sowing that are mixing Judaism with christianity  The teachings of James are pure christian teachings.

I am not suprised you dismissed James 1:27 which is still the best bible definition and summary of what the christian faith is all about, no wonder Jesus sais very few would find the way.

Joagbaje:
Your kobo kobo giving only gives you religious feeling. If thats your idea of the gospel , You dont really know why christ came. The message of christ to religous jews is different from the message to the church.

@Joeagbaje

Not that it would make any difference to your lost soul but i would still post the scripture below maybe it would still prick something in you.

James 1:27:
27 Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

Azibalua:
phil 4:10-19

Just as i thought you would quote a scripture like philipians 4:10-19. If i were to be rad in it's proper context you would observe that Paul was thanking the philipians for their financial support and NOT teaching or preaching to them to give to him as a means for God to bleww him. I am sorry this scripture doesn't answer the question i asked. My question is to show at least one scripture were christians were taught t give to their pastors/ preachers as a means for receiving financial blessings from God. Still waithng.

For the benefit of others i would post the passge here and you be the judge if it answers the question i raised

Philippians 4:10-19:

Paul’s Thanks for Their Gifts
10 How I praise the Lord that you are concerned about me again. I know you have always been concerned for me, but you didn’t have the chance to help me. 11 Not that I was ever in need, for I have learned how to be content with whatever I have. 12 I know how to live on almost nothing or with everything. I have learned the secret of living in every situation, whether it is with a full stomach or empty, with plenty or little. 13 For I can do everything through Christ, who gives me strength. 14 Even so, you have done well to share with me in my present difficulty.

15 As you know, you Philippians were the only ones who gave me financial help when I first brought you the Good News and then traveled on from Macedonia. No other church did this. 16 Even when I was in Thessalonica you sent help more than once. 17 I don’t say this because I want a gift from you. Rather, I want you to receive a reward for your kindness.

18 At the moment I have all I need—and more! I am generously supplied with the gifts you sent me with Epaphroditus. They are a sweet-smelling sacrifice that is acceptable and pleasing to God. 19 And this same God who takes care of me will supply all your needs from his glorious riches, which have been given to us in Christ Jesus.

The philipians 4:19 which pentecostals love to quote is actually a prayer for the philipian people by Paul and not a promise from God as it is usually used out of context. This prayer i spersonal to them and NOT a general promise to believers.