₦airaland Forum

vedaxcool: Soon "logic"boy will call capitalism a religion, sometimes u begin to suspect ignorance is highly correlated with atheism!

Capitalism is not a religion, it is an economic system, just like socialism.


Communism is a political and social system (which is socialist at heart) just like any religion. Sharia comes to mind.



I always knew that you were ignorant.


Do you now agree that I'm smarter than you?

Mr_Anony: @PAGAN 9JA,

So according to you, and your pictures, blowing up churches will lead to developed cities, save money and preserve your traditional rituals. It is from ignorant thinking like this that religious wars start. Besides, how you can combine dancing naked and wearing raffia in the same context with skyscrapers and gold bullion is truly amazing. Don't you know that it is because some missionaries bothered to come and educate your ancestors who were running around naked in the bush that you can even dream of skyscrapers and gold bullion?

Since you are so passionate about your so called Nigerian culture, why don't you walk around the streets dressed in nothing but your loincloth and send us a picture......sorry technology such as cameras, computers and phones are from the "evil whiteman" please stop typing on Nairaland......wait a minute, where did you learn to read and write not to talk of typing? Please unlearn them immediately. Just go back to the bush and chew your chewing-stick and stop being a hypocrite.

Pagan 9ja my foot. Destroy xtianism my other foot.

Go and find something better to do with your life, Mr Nairaland tough guy; destroying xtianism from behind his keyboard.

By the way, your mates in boko haram are displaying their ignorance much better than you are. Please beat them at it, show us a higher level of ignorance and we will probably take you seriously.

While Pagan Naija's picture might be too aggressive, his point remains valid. Christianity, if not challenged, will always drive a country backwards. The founders of America reasoned thatthee had to be freedom of and from religion because they realised that a major religion or a major sect of christianity will always bully and try to politically enforce it's views. Read about the establishment clause and Separation of church and state. All developed countries have separation of church and state. Not Nigeria

America also had to go through numerous legal battles with christianity to teach evolution which is science in school and not creationism which is not science. Remember that christianity is a religion and it is not science. What is christianity's business with teaching of science in school? Religion has no business with science and fortunately science won the legal battle. Evolution is taught in public schools and creatonism restricted to only elective bible classes. All developed countries teach evolution. Not Nigeria


You claim that we are hypocrites for saying that white man brought christianity but not complaining about white man's technology. This is an argument out of ignorance. Let me debunk your reasoning;

-technology is not the sole claim of white man. Most people in Nigeria use technology from Asia (Japan, Korea, China) as much or even more than the West. Toyota, Kia are Asian cars. LG,Sharp and Samsung are Asian products.These countries are atheists countries. Remember that.


-christianity, unlike technology, was directly brought by the white man from Britain (Porttuguese came and f4cked off). What makes this matter worse is that Jesus was not likely white- he probably looked Arab. However, we paint Jesus in Nigeria as a white man in our churches.


-christianity, unlike technology came with slavery and colonization. We pay and ask for technology. We didnt ask for christianity or slavery.,



In summary, christianity is a road block on the path enlightenment and the progress of a futuristic civilization. All developed countries are secular. Geez, I wonder why.

LagosShia: you have to make things clear for people to understand what you are saying.

the people you are refering to as "slaves" in this context are prisoners of war.the muslims were in a state of war.when you fight war and you win,you take prisoners.most of the females there on the losing end,had their husbands killed.there is two options the Quran presented to deal with that situation:either free them or you ransom them.if they wish to embrace the religion and become part of you,then there is no guilt in marrying them.when you quoted half of the verse,you wanted to make it sound that muslim men were on the rampage having $ex with the female captives.

-You talk as if slaves did not work or do hard labour or were not punished or treated unjustly by muslims
-There is a difference between a prisoner of war and a slave. Your religion decided not to vote against turning prisoners of war into slaves
-Muslim men were on the rampage having $ex with female captives, yes. The Quran clearly allowed concubinage with female slaves. Why are you denying the truth that many of your muslim websites even agree to?

LagosShia: in Islam,there is nothing as slavery or selling fellow human beings even if they be muslims.slavery occurs when there are prisoners of war.the Quran says you either free them or you ransom them.

however,when you talk of slavery removing the idea of prisoners of war,there is no where you can say slavery is not haram.bring me evidence where slavery is halal in the Quran.simple.

What is the ransom for slaves then?

There is a difference between slaves and prisoners of war. My forefathers beheaded prisoners of war from other villages. Your religion chooses to keep POW's as slaves.

LagosShia: whoever did that is on his own.islam has guidelines and they are clear enough.whoever strays,that is his business.

That means that your Islam was misunderstood by majority of muslims. Your muslims created a lot of black eunuchs. Some from West Africa. How do you think Islam came to Nigeria?

If the Koran accepts concubinage with slaves how is that not making slavery halal?

LagosShia: you want to generalize.in those countries,there are also muslims who drink alcohol and islam does not allow it.the point is no one can say something does not exist somewhere.i am trying to make you see the difference between what islam teaches and what muslims do or do not.i am also trying to let you see the differences between a law being present and a law not being present.

You are only trying to defend your religion. Pitifully, I must add.

-We established that muslim countries in general were slower in abolishing slave trade compared to the infidel west.
-Slavery was practiced well in those countries. Please do not act like it was isolated

LagosShia: the Quran was not revealed in the 20th century.it was revealed 1300 years before europe abolished slavery.the Quran tells us that slaves in the meaning of those captured in war (prisoners of war) are either to be freed or ransomed.and if they embrace Islam,they become one of us.

Slavery was finally abolished by law in the 20th century. Your Quran failed to do this. How can Allah's book not be able to abolish slave trade?

POW's of today are treated with humane conditions as required by the 3rd Geneva convention. Your Quran turns POW's into slaves.

agb2011: even lucifer can quote scriptures so i'm not surprised. But i'm very sure dt d part where d Bible specifically talked about Hell is torn in ur own bible. Smh! U ar one of those ppl who read d bible wt a mind sieve and sieve out d part they don't lik from d Bible but keep d ones they like. What a pity! It's wen u die dt u'l know d truth wait til then. I av better things 2do than 2argue wt u. This last time i'm going to reply u.

Just try and read d book of Daniel, Amos, & Revelation wt an OPEN MIND.

lol....hypocrite, you too do not read the bible with an open mind. If you did, you would realise that Jesus is also given the title of lucifer.

LagosShia: regulate as i said could also mean to curb or make ways to abolish.

you see how dishonest you are? why dont you quote the entire verse 4:24?why only quote half and leave the remaining half? you also have to know that there is a difference between slaves and prisoners of war as in the time of the Prophet (sa).here is the complete verse 4:24:

"And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise."

And how does full text change the fact that
1) the Koran instructs muslims to have sex/marriage with already married slaves?

2) the fate of non-muslim females slaves is not so good?

The question will always be- Why is something as trivial as pork haraam but slavery not haraam?


If slavery was good, what about the eunuchs? Castrating slaves was not haraam? Look, christianity was bad as well with slavery, I know.

LagosShia: all those dates you have mentioned,at that point in time,it is either those countries newly got their independence or they were not having islamic governments.with the exception of iran in 1979,up to this day non of the other countries have islamic governments.

also,if slavery is a virtuos act islamically,then it would never have been abolished.polygamy is an option and permitted in islam and in islamic countries,polygamy to this day is allowed.when you speak of "abolition of slavery",it simply means that law was put into place to enforce a ban and punish anyone who deals with slaves.however,Islamic law and what the Quran says has always being there regardless if countries promote a ban or are tolerant of the practice.alcohol is forbidden even if countries around the world have not pass a law to ban it and punish those who sell it.as for slavery,let us dont talk much.instead let us see what the Quran has to say.in my next post i will do just that.

those countries also did not practice slavery or encourage it.simply because there isn't law drafted to punish perpetrators in a constitution does not mean that the crime or breach of law is acceptable.the Quran has the final say on how muslims should live their lives and we will see what the Quran has to say.the Quran has set a precedence 1300 years before your beloved west hypocritically and reluctantly abolished slavery in one form.

I wish I had your talent for intellectual dishonesty. You have remixed everything now. So, there was no slavery in Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia before the ban?

LagosShia: there are things stated in the link of the BBC which i agree with.and there are points which i do not agree with.BBC is not a league of muslim scholars in britain.

isn't this the same BBC that was caught last week of using a fake picture of a massacre in iraq and displaying it as a picture from syria to spread propaganda?

i really do not have the time to go through the entire article in the link (which is long) and then refute the points i do not agree with.

for you to know a comprehensive perspective on slavery and what muslims believe including a comparative study with christianity's views and actions on slavery and also the secular west's actions,you instead should read this written by a Muslim scholar:

"Slavery :From Islamic and Christian Perspectives

by Sayyid Sa'eed Akhtar Rizvi

http://www.al-islam.org/slavery/

Wow. Whatever. Forget the BBC. Answer this question that debunks your religion- Why was slavery not haraam? Why did many people have to suffer until the 20th century before Allah granted the freedom from slavery?

LagosShia: no it does not matter because there is nothing like "shia" or "sunni mosque".all mosques belong to Allah.a Sunni can pray in a Shia mosque and a Shia can pray in a Sunni.we thank God for that,even thoug mosques are either built or run by one or the other group.

you do not have to worry yourself about the differences.it is better for you to be a wahhabi (not even a mainstream Sunni) than for you to be atheist.

That's good- you guys arent as divided as the christians

eledalo: Youve gone too far. Just mention one name closer to home:
Aliko Dangote - Guess he paid his tithes to his pastor in Kano?

Nice one

TB Joshua's thanks;

I thank God for the sheep who believe my false prophecies

I thank God for the tithing memebers who allow me to live like a king.

LagosShia: it is either UK or USA.i think you've hinted before.regardless,there are islamic centers and even Shia ones in almost all countries of the world.

Does it really matter if I go to a Shia or sunni or wahabi mosque? I have no idea what the differences are.


As for location, UK

handsomeness: Can you name them? They took those steps..they give either directly or indirectly.

Bill Gates?

Steve Jobs?

LagosShia: 1.) you are lying.using a word such as "regulate" is apparently trying to pass a message that is false.regulate could be to curb or eliminate or maintain in a way.so which are you attributing to Islam?

2.) Islamic societies can mean societies governed by the shariah or societies with majority muslims that may be following secular law or tribal traditions.a society following shariah law with learned islamic scholar does not maintain or promote slavery.however,societies with majority muslims could practice slavery just as you cited some muslims who drink alcohol even though the Quran orders us not to.

3.) talking about sharia is not an issue anyone can comment on.bring the opinion of a learned islamic jurist who is an expert on sharia law that is saying slavery is possible under sharia law theoretically or in whatever way.

the very BBC link you presented makes it clear that slavery predates in Islam in arabia and it is more of a traditional and tribal reasons that makes people adhere to slavery and not the islamic religion.it is also clear from the link that Islam did not encourage slavery but freeing slaves is seen as a virtuous acts.and even when people are enslaved in times of war (known also as prisoners of war),Islam orders kind treatment of human beings.all,that said what nonsense are you doing by giving me a BBC article about Islam? am i to take their opinion? base on what criteria am i to believed the BBC oon islamic matters? i see their article as contradictory all in a bid too cast doubt even when they know the truth.

1) Regulate means regulate. The Quran talks about having sex with female slaves. It controls slavery

Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." Even sex with married slaves is permissible

Why is pork haraam but not slavery?



2)Denial. USA and Britain (infidel west, immoral west ) abolished slavery in 1834 and 1865- 19th century.

Your favourite countries

-Iran abolished slave trade in 1928 (20th century)
-Iraq abolished slave trade in 1934 (20th century)
-Saudi Arabia abolishes slavery in 1962 (20th century)
-Yemen abolishes slavery in 1962 (20th century)
-United Arab Emirates abolishes slavery in 1963 (20th century)
-Oman abolishes slavery in 1970 (20th century)
-Mauritania abolishes slavery in 1981 (20th century)

Islam loved slaver more than the immoral West. Are you not ashamed that the immoral West repented from slavery before your muslim countries? Are you now going to claim that all these countries do not practice sharia properly?


3) So the BBC is now lying? Remember that there are muslim scholars in Britain. Furthermore, please prove the BBC wrong. The BBC uses qualified people and research their work. Name one error there on that link.

Mr_Anony: May God forgive you. You can move along now.

Is that all you can say when your source of morals can be debunked

LagosShia: let me know in which city you are.i would post addresses of Islamic centers i recommend you attend.

lol....do you even know what country I am in?

Laryokeke: Men... Lots of texts up there but WHAT EXACTLY IS YOUR POINT

Read again. I have made it easier for you!

hisblud: obeying
https://www.nairaland.com/953832/30-keys-being-effective-atheist

You see yourself

So we should forget the evil christianity has done? Well, I am not surprised at your failed thinking

hisblud: see what a mind can think not to convert/convince but destroy? well you are not going to be the last to imagine it but note this the gates of hell can never, will never prevail over the church.

Ode, your christianity destroyed lives with slavery and genocide. Ignoramus.

LagosShia: no.Shia Islam did not originate in Iran.you cannot even say Shia Islam or Islam itself originated from somewhere from an Islamic view.but you as a non-muslim can say Islam spread from arabia.Iran was a majority Sunni country up till the 16th century.the Prophet Muhammad (sa) and the 12 holy Imams (as) from his progeny/Ahlul-Bayt (as)the Shia Muslims base their Islamic faith on are all arabians from Makkah.

in Islam,there is no national barrier.we are all Muslims regardless of political boundaries.

Sorry, I didnt know that!

LagosShia: "frosbel",

it looks like your season of repetition has started again-where you repeat past topics to spite others with lies.

here are the two previous threads you created on this your allegation of attributing (the creation of) slavery to arabs and you lost:

https://www.nairaland.com/704349/islam-not-christianity-first-perpetrator

https://www.nairaland.com/808814/black-africa-arab-muslim-slave

you have being told the following points previously and i hope you'd not have me to elaborate on them again in this thread:

1.) christianity and the bible encourages slavery

2.) the church participated in slave trade

3.) with the coming of Islam into arabia,Islam systemically abolished slavery

4.) the bible speaks of and encourages slavery and slave trade before both the religion of Islam in arabia and before the existence of arabians themselves as a distinct ethnic group.

5.) we know how you feel to face the shame that your religion treats you as a slave and encourages slavery.it is therefore better for you to keep quiet and bury the issue than for you to disgrace yourself.

"Slavery Is Authorized And Blessed In The Bible By The Bible God Himself!":

https://www.nairaland.com/838001/slavery-authorized-blessed-bible-bible

1) Both the Koran and Bible regulate slavery

2) Islamic societies were the last to abolish slave trade

3) Slavery is still theoretically possible under Sharia law

Read before to talk

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_1.shtml

Those 30 keys have been debunked! Why are you guys so dry?

hisblud: https://www.nairaland.com/298119/30-keys-being-effective-atheist/2#9514467

SO funny Enigma

I have debunked your evangelical atheist paradoxes

https://www.nairaland.com/953834/debunking-evangelical-atheists-paradoxes

So, some christian is claiming that atheists are hypocrites. So lets debunk the claim.


Here are the "paradoxes"

Some Evangelical atheists paradoxes* https://www.nairaland.com/817389/atheism-no-god-religion/1#10992235

1. Christianity is a white man's religion ------ ( huh of what colour are the apostles and bishops of the evangelical atheists like Dawkins, Harris etc?)
2. Christian writings - especially New Testament writings - are stone/bronze age material (hmm, when did Socrates, Pluto, Aristotle etc live, work or write?)
3. When Christians discuss their faith, even only among themselves, they are evangelising and offensive, but when the evangelical atheists spam the forum with evangelical atheist codswallop even to cause offence deliberately, they are "providing education"! smiley
4. Christianity is an intolerant religion but the evangelical atheist religion cannot accept any viewpoint whatsoever that suggests the existence of God; in fact even holding such a viewpoint privately is not acceptable to evangelical atheists who see it as a duty to "disabuse" the holder of the viewpoint. Perhaps call it "enlightenment"! smiley
5. Lack of belief in God is substantively different from belief in the non-existence of God thus a dog, a cow, a monkey is as much an "atheist" as the evangelical atheist! (Very good company smiley; and as a bonus: insist that man is an ape but become angry if called a monkey grin )

Debunking;

First of all, they would be ironic/contradictory and not "paradoxes".


1) Christianity is a Jewish religion. What atheist say is that christianity is a foreign religion. Dawkins and Harris are not priests or apostles. Atheism is not a religion and Evolution is not a religion. Christianity is the hypocrite here- it claim to save everyone but all its prophets are Jewish or from the middle east/North Africa. Atheism doesnt claim to save everyone.


2) Atheism has no bible or writings. If you want to claim that atheists have priests in Dawkins and Harris, evolution is not in the stone age, neither is big bang.

3)Christianity is the hypocrite here. They dont want thier beliefs challenged. They claim that they are not offensive and athiests are trolls and derailers. Please tell me. how you will react when some people are always claiming that you're immoral because you dont believe in their god and you will burn forever in a sadistic torture chamber for eternity?

Christians claim not to be offensive but they like to say that atheists are immoral and will burn eternally in hell.

4) Christianity is the hypocrite here, they claim to be persecuted when the have been killing unbelievers over a 1000 years. The preach with loudspeakers in churches, markets, on television, from door to door and on the internet. However, when atheists challenge them on the internet, atheist are militant and evangelists. Which atheist group is persecuting you in Nigeria? Liars

5) Pointless. Disbelief in God is very logical. There is no physical proof of God and so why should we believe in him or his religions? I dont believe in your God for the same reason yo do not believe in thor- you cant see thor, his story is a fairytale and there is no evidence for thor.

musKeeto: I thank God for making me anointed for Now I am above the law...
I thank God for making my hands long enough to masturbate so that I do not commit fornication
I thank God for doubling my tithes and offerings.
I thank God for protecting me and also for those whose lives have been taken by Boko Haram. its God's will for he is unquestionable.
I thank God for being the light of my life even as my country remains in darkness.

Oyedepo's thanks

I thank God for giving me long hands to slap young girls

I thank God for tithing memebers who help me buy private jets

I thank God for youtube for exposing my slapping abilities

I thank God for Nigeria's lawlessness that allows me to assault young girls without arrest!

lanre316: @logicboy

How can there be a God of love if there is so much suffering?

This is a common argument used by atheists to support their claim that there is no God. But is it a fair argument? For, if suffering is used as evidence to disprove the existence of a loving God, then equally any good that happens in the world ought to be used as an evidence to support that there is a loving God. I think you would agree that this is not a very realistic measurement for judging God's existence.

Lol....your argument proves that either God is indifferent to joy/pain or God doesnt exist.

lanre316: But if there is no God then who have you to blame?

I remember once speaking to an atheist who was very angry because I told him that I believed in God. He said, 'How can you say there is a God when children die?' I said to him, 'OK let's say there isn't a God - so who are you left to be angry with?' He looked at me and said, 'Well God's allowing all this war, slavery, injustice and all this evil.' I stopped him and said, 'But if there is no God - who can you be angry with?' He thought for a moment and realised that most of the suffering he witnessed was directly attributed to humans being selfish, greedy, or cruel to each other. He realised that you cannot be angry with someone who doesn't exist! If there is no God then you and I are probably only a sack of chemicals that got here by accident, therefore any suffering is either due to 'nature taking its course', 'survival of the fittest', or human greed and cruelty.

Why must we blame someone in the first place? If your problem is natural/intrinsic why must you blame someone? If it is man-made like slavery, then blame your slave master.

lanre316: If there is no God then suffering is all the more helpless, hopeless and pointless

To remove God from the picture does not solve your problem of pain and suffering and death, it simply intensifies the emptiness and fearfulness of it.
For example, imagine a child dying of cancer in a hospital bed, lonely, unloved and un-cared for, nothing is more terrible to imagine. But now imagine that same scene but this time with a mother present, bending over the child, entering into its suffering, surrounding that child with the atmosphere of love, holding onto the child's hand as the child is dying. There is no less pain, yet the mother's loving companionship makes the whole grim situation so infinitely more tolerable. It is still awful, but it is bearable because the child matters to someone, and that someone to whom the child matters to is there. You see there is something worse in life than having to suffer innocently, and that is the feeling that you have to suffer alone.'

Do you see what a disgusting and dreadful hell this earth would be if it were populated by a race wholly destitute of God? Do you also see that when a man loses God, he has lost everything and he has nothing left? Without God everything is pointless and suffering is hopeless.

People who live without God are the most peaceful people in the world. The most peaceful countries are secular and have a lot of atheist.

lanre316: Thank God, suffering does not have the final word

Really? Yor forefathers who died as slaves maybe on the ship to America died in suffering

I thank God for all the christians that can afford to tithe and thank God for the christians killed by Boko Haram

Logic Mind: Logicboy is beginning to see the light
Logicboy's mouth is prophesying
It is written that prophesy must be fulfilled
These so called christians don't know what they are worshipping but we do and they call us atheist and laugh and mock at us. Just like the real christians were mocked at.
If you posted your thanks in the top section called "have you praised him yet today", it will be hidden and you will probably get banned.
doG is wonderful
may all glory, honour and praise be to his marvellous name for ever and ever.
eeemen!

Halellujah, apostle Logic Mind!

I hae seen the light!

deols: yes! U'r allowed. The prophet allowed non Muslims in the mosque. These are one of the issues that point to d tolerant nature of Islam and of his prophet(S.A.W)

Thank you for your answer. However, the bold part is unnecessary and debatable.

How tolerant islam to me getting married to my muslim girlfriend?

benodic: When a man dies, the real self, soul, simply drops the physical body and moves to the court of the judge of the dead.
In this court a record of the man's life is reviewed and if the man has not learnt the lessons of love needed to move to the next level then he or she has to reincarnate into another physical body to start the lessons all over again.

Where did you get this nonsense from? Your azz?

Shollypopz: I thank God for making me with a brain and I thank God for making logicboy brainless
I thank God for making me a master and I thank God for making logicboy my slave
mtchew, can you see how silly you sound?!

?

While your thanking God for non-existent/non-factual thing, I amthanking your God for things that happen that christians like you choose to ignore!

Mr_Anony: Yes I am a christian. I speak in reflection* - I have already weighed the arguments and God makes so much sense to me.

The fact that there is no physical proof of your God makes sense? Or the fact that your God commanded people to take slaves in Leveticus makes sense? Or that women were created from a rib makes sense?

Mr_Anony: How can a statement be true if it is a non-statement? No statement is true simply because it proclaims another statement false

??

A statement can be true if it states that a false statement is false. Ode. Philosophy and logic are not for ignorant christians like you

manmustwac: Lol at number 7

Yeah, that's my fave also!

hisblud: I wont want the post be digressed to another topic. take ya tym, paragraph by paragraph and present your rebutal to the above argument.

What is the argument? That atheism is a religion or that evolution is fake? we shouldnt be debating this in 2012

hisblud: smh

Isnt God Good?