₦airaland Forum

samuk:
Are you on this thread or you are only here to be spoon feed by Tao11. Go back to page 12, there is a document written in 1863 about an English man that interviewed Oba Adolo, the father of Oba Ovonramwen in 1862. Adolo was misspelt as Atolo. It's on the 6st line on the first page.

No wonder you have been arguing blindly.

Edeyoung:
Ok i agree it started with ovaremwen what changed

Does it makes oromiyan find the dynasty during ovaremwen reign


Sicko

Ni sense

If we are to use this same logic on your kings thsn thier stool would have beging 1900

Macof you need sleep

samuk:
Below is what this Yoruba student of history claimed earlier in the thread. Hopefully he has saw the 1863 document that referenced Oba Adolo (Oba Ovonramwen's father).

Edeyoung:
Very funny guy ,the European wrote points down which can guide us to the truth against the yorubas because if you use local intellect they will call it unfair

bandit90002:
wow, how can you be so illogical and casual with it ?
The people of the region didn't have a written language !
we are talking about eye-witness accounts here !
Our own eye-witnesses couldn't write ! The fact the litterate eye-witnesses were europeans is irrelevent. What matters is that they were eye-witnesses and that we are reading their accounts ! A real history student would know this.

Edeyoung:
And if you make provide it ,I bet you would pay me 10k since you believe they didn’t

Are you ready to pay it

I will drop my account details

Afonja

bandit90002:
macof is a real embarrassment, I remember he used to claim he were a history student.
Which means he was either telling lies, either he was a very bad history student, either his professors are charlattans.
Anyway, the last person who should be seeking credentials in history is macof, he is a total fraud.

Edeyoung:
So the Europeans who wrote about oroogbua saw fairytales too lol all yorubas have gone mad

bandit90001:
back into fairytales I see, let me bring you back to reality: there was no oronmiyan ! The name and the story are fictional, just like father christmass, hercules, spiderman, superman ...

bandit90001:
By the way, I am not sure that you are all aware, but the word "king" itself is the title of the british crown (my previous comment assumes you are aware of this). So when you say "king" while referring to rulers whom are not the king of england, you are paraphrasing the title of the british crown.
It is quite a common thing to praphrase the title of a certain well known crown. The title of the Oba of Benin is "Oba" and the yoruba are paraphrasing it.

Normally, if you just say "the queen", then people should automatically understand that you mean the queen of england.
Normally, if you just say "the tsar", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of russia.
Normally, if you just say "the keiser", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of germany.
Normally, if you just say "the roi", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of france.
Normally, if you just say "the sultan", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of the ottoman empire. (i think that is where it originated)
...
Likewise, normally, if you just say "the Oba", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of Benin.
Just common sense...

Edeyoung:
I knew you had inflicted isanity into the young boy macof, inother to hide the truth he gave me a wrong referencing


If elisée wrote that book 1899,i want to know did elisée visit africa if no, how did she know the word obba, did she visit Yorubaland who did she hear it from

Or probably she guessed the kings around nigeria region would be called obba since there is a powerful king like oba of benin in nigeria

If she visited Africa let us know and if she didnt, then on which persons account did she writeon


Note
at 1899,yorubas were still divided culturally for them to use a common word for king



Samuel johson works was published in 1921 and you dare reference it to me,

I want to see the the referencing you gave on 1845

You dont just post rubbish referencing and expect us to swallow it, without cognitive reasoning

Macof, Sewgon79


Come help her.......

richie240:
Always quick to resort to insult at d slightest provocation.
Even the bloke I was having a discussion with did not insult, talkless of an eavesdropper

I dignified him with a response cos (from d last I knew of him), he wasnt a miscreant......(time changes things tho! )

But from ur post alone, I know it would be fruitless engaging u in any meaningful dialogue devoid of insult!

Ngwa, run along!


[s][/s]

laudate:
I have not changed and will always stand by the truth.

You are using Joe Igbokwe's comment as your guide? I laugh in Greek.

You are very funny. The same Joe Igbokwe whose statement has been discredited and shredded by different people on Twitter, because his comments were full of conjecture and falsehood?

Now, back to DJ Switch. She said she saw 15 bodies. And your army carried away those 15 bodies. Has the army denied carrying away any bodies?

The same army first lied that they were not at the scene. Later they said they were invited by Sanwo-Olu. Then they claimed they used blank bullets. That story was discovered to be a pure lie, when bullets found at the scene was tied to an army factory in Serbia, where the Nigerian army has been buying bullets from since 2005 to 2016. Even the army has NOT been able to disprove this fact.

All those injured by the bullets were treated in different hospitals in Lekki and Victoria Island.

Even Sanwo-Olu visited them and also acknowledged their pain. His visits were shown on different TV channels. In his interviews on CNN with Becky Anderson, he admitted 2 people died.

The Lagos Judicial Panel saw CCTV footage which showed the army firing at people, and those people being pursued into the lagoon.

So if bullets could pierce the body of the protesters, what on earth makes you think the bodies could not kill them if it hits a major organ or an artery?

And you are here still claiming that nobody died? How can you even justify soldiers opening fire upon unarmed protesters?? Where on earth is this permitted to happen? Have you been paid to mortgage your conscience?

gregyboy:
1. It is not available , the oba refers to as king in European text but the 2. word obaseki which the European wrote as abbasski, shows that indeed words like oba was present in benin




And if he can't present it what change,


3. Does it give yoruba the upper hand for the ownership of oba....


Because we know after 1930 yorubas kings began using oba with their titles to address themselves to uplift their dead history


Same way samuel johnson to sell is dead oyo centric books

TAO11:
Written evidence?? = “King” (Final answer!). Lol! /s

——————
On Screenshots: The 1st = quotation from the 1400s. The 2nd = quotation from the 2000s. The 3rd = quotation from the 1800s.

gregyboy:
Foolish questions

Edeyoung:
Benin never had a second dynasty it was only obe dynasty, the oba dynasty

samuk:
Unfortunately, you can't just wish away the over 400 years of Benin subjugation of Yoruba.

The relationship between Benin and Yoruba was that of colonial master and subject, the Igbo shouldn't get it confused.

There is not Benin/Ife relationship. The fallacy was created in 1800s,nothing before then in Benin history. Those that have contrary views can provide evidence.

The Benin and Yoruba people are different people.

valirex:
We claim to own the word Ọba and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it than to rant online that makes you a miscreant

valirex:
When your fabrication ain't tight you call your opponents miscreants, I understand the painment you are in

Edeyoung:
Youre manipulative i never read this before i know it will be scrap

Why would you quote me a yoruba author who knew that attaching the word oba to yoruba kings it would help his book to sell



As for the French Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “The earth and Its Inhabitants", Vol. 12, Published 1882, p.265



I check the reference and there was nothing there relating to any yoruba

If you're talking about the revised version rewriting in 1899, then you must be joking

First of all at 1899 all yorubas already knew how powerful the word oba was if use to adress themselves and elisee Reclus probably even have the demited book of Samuel
Johnson to have been able to call yoruba kings obba



My stance remains that before samuel johson wrote his demitted book history of yorubas
No yoruba used the word oba as a generic term for yoruba kings and before 1930 before it became officially used


I would burst your bubble do you know why samuel johson did a way with many general words for king in Yorubaland like olu, deji, kaybeyesi, because he knew those words wont sell if it was writing it to the Europeans unlike when he used the word OBA which is more recognized to the Europeans

I would bet that at the time samuel johson wrote that book the word oba was not even know to oyo people, unlike the eastern yorubas who used the words because of influence from benins the original owner of the word ,samuel johnson he only got to know the word oba because he was educated and had read books written by Europeans on the oba of benin


Afam4eva do you know that yorubas have so many words they could adopt for a generic term for king names like
1) olu= we get them in titles like olu of ibadan, olu of warri
2) deji= deji of akure,
3= owa=Owatapa of Itapa Ekiti, Owatapa of Itapa Ekiti,

Then we have kabeyesi= meaning royal highness

Yet they decided to choose the word oba

The question is which title originally bore the word oba amongst the yoruba kings before 1930 apart from the oba of beni., you will see its none

If you doubt me bring a source older than 1897


Please lets see the original copy of elisee reculus
Before the translation if she used the word obba in an original text

RedboneSmith

AreaFada2
Sarah20A
Valirex
Ghostwon
AreaFada2
Sarah20A
Etinosa1234
Etrusen

scholes0:
In Owan part of Edo North they use “Oje” While others still use “Ojie”

Last names like

Aidenoje/gie//je
Eidenoje/jie/gie
Aidelogie/jie/je

Can be found all over Edo... meaning you do not challenge the KING. The target word here being King.


All buttressing the points we are trying to make here.

Once you start understanding Edo languages and traditions - it is just actually quite easy to bust these peoples lies. The problem is usually that most Yorubas don’t understand the inner working of Edo land and their language- but majority of them do have some knowledge of ours, hence most times it is easy for them to weave a backstory by looking for loopholes in Yoruba oral traditions.

I call it “afterthought“ or “retrospective history”.. They’ve become actually quite good at it.

scholes0:
In Owan part of Edo North they use “Oje” While others still use “Ojie”

Last names like

Aidenoje/gie//je
Eidenoje/jie/gie
Aidelogie/jie/je

Can be found all over Edo... meaning you do not challenge the KING. The target word here being King.


All buttressing the points we are trying to make here.

Once you start understanding Edo languages and traditions - it is just actually quite easy to bust these peoples lies. The problem is usually that most Yorubas don’t understand the inner working of Edo land and their language- but majority of them do have some knowledge of ours, hence most times it is easy for them to weave a backstory by looking for loopholes in Yoruba oral traditions.

I call it “afterthought“ or “retrospective history”.. They’ve become actually quite good at it.

Edeyoung:
Bro you don't need prove visit goggle bro

Edeyoung:
Why would you say oba of benin is a myth something the Europeans noted in all thier text

samuk:
Oduduwa and Oranmiyan are myths. I am not interested in discussing myths.

samuk:
Hold on to your conclusion.

The title was originally the preserve of the Oba who was the sovereign of the empire.

When the first European visited Benin in 1485 they met an Oba but the title is much older than that. For those disputing that the king of Benin was not known as Oba, they should tell us what the title was.

There are countless other traditional rulers in Edo state with their own titles but the Oba was the sovereign.

Don't also forget that historically the Benin empire was not only confined to the present Edo state, most part of Igbo land, eastern Yoruba up to Lagos were all part of the old Benin empire. Whilst the capital of the empire had the Oba as the sovereign, all other towns had something like, deji of Akure, Eleko of Eko, olu of Warri, Enojie of Ekpoma etc.

macof:
Tao Tao always giving them hard education. They of course will not take it because that's not what they are after but to prevent those who don't know better from taking their nonsense seriously it is important to give education

Imagine still asking for source that calls a Yoruba King ọba
Even after you explained that the word "ọba" is a common noun and Yoruba Kings are referred to by their styled titles.. A Bini person can't grasp this because to them "ọba" is a title (as a result of it being foreign to them) and "ogie" is the word for King

Permit me to add

1. "ọba" as a common noun doesn't necessarily mean a sovereign but any king or chief or honoured personage who presides over or dorminates something
For example, Ife nobles before the creation of a united ife were all known as Obas presiding over their quarters ie. Oba Idio, Oba Ejio, Oba Iloran, Oba Iwinrin etc and the most famous of them Obatala doubles as a deity.. Missionary sources of the mid 19th century mentions this name as a deity

Even the Peacock is an Ọba as the Yoruba would say "Ọkin ọba ẹyẹ"


2. Oranmiyan specifically intended to not raise his status when he was in Benin to that of an overall sovereign and held no styled title... Probably because he actually was not a sovereign considering the obstacles he met from Ogiamien
So this word "ọba" that some miscreants are trying to claim actually is not something they understand 
Rightly so as it is a foreign word and to them since their Sovereign is called by this word it must be a special title for a sovereign

3. In direct response to what the miscreant is trying to restrict the argument to.. That is, a particular king referred to with the word "oba". The first Ọmọnọba or Oba of Benin referred to in a document with the word "oba" is Ovonramwen and only in retrospect as this was after he had been deposed. Documents I have only date to 1906
.. If he can provide a document from an earlier date showing any Ọmọnọba before ovonramwen called "ọba" it would be very impressive but I doubt such document exist.

While you have provided earlier documents for your argument

Righteousness89:
The acts of Many Fore Fathers and Mothers have Caused so much Bondages to their offsprings.

Thank GOD For JESUS! Liberation has Come for this ones..
Many Young men and ladies will Suddenly see light in their lives..

PRAISE GOD! PRAISE GOD! PRAISE GOD!

gregyboy:
You are mad at bolded



Very mad and its not funny

The earth kiill you there

gregyboy:
So you mean the author wrote the name oba, if the quote was originally written as king, he probably would have also wrote it as king and not oba,


Bro, what is your point in all this?
the title oba is indigenous to yorubas so how did benin get it,
When did the benins adopt the name oba for their king title, and what was their title before then if dey had...?

macof:
Tao Tao always giving them hard education. They of course will not take it because that's not what they are after but to prevent those who don't know better from taking their nonsense seriously it is important to give education

Imagine still asking for source that calls a Yoruba King ọba
Even after you explained that the word "ọba" is a common noun and Yoruba Kings are referred to by their styled titles.. A Bini person can't grasp this because to them "ọba" is a title (as a result of it being foreign to them) and "ogie" is the word for King

Permit me to add

[b]
1. "ọba" as a common noun doesn't necessarily mean a sovereign but any king or chief or honoured personage who presides over or dorminates something
For example, Ife nobles before the creation of a united ife were all known as Obas presiding over their quarters ie. Oba Idio, Oba Ejio, Oba Iloran, Oba Iwinrin etc and the most famous of them Obatala doubles as a deity.. Missionary sources of the mid 19th century mentions this name as a deity

Even the Peacock is an Ọba as the Yoruba would say "Ọkin ọba ẹyẹ"


2. Oranmiyan specifically intended to not raise his status when he was in Benin to that of an overall sovereign and held no styled title... Probably because he actually was not a sovereign considering the obstacles he met from Ogiamien
So this word "ọba" that some miscreants are trying to claim actually is not something they understand 
Rightly so as it is a foreign word and to them since their Sovereign is called by this word it must be a special title for a sovereign
[/b]

3. In direct response to what the miscreant is trying to restrict the argument to.. That is, a particular king referred to with the word "oba". The first Ọmọnọba or Oba of Benin referred to in a document with the word "oba" is Ovonramwen and only in retrospect as this was after he had been deposed. Documents I have only date to 1906
.. If he can provide a document from an earlier date showing any Ọmọnọba before ovonramwen called "ọba" it would be very impressive but I doubt such document exist.

While you have provided earlier documents for your argument